Trade Talk - Trade Week 2009

[bulldogtragic]

With two weeks of possibly the busiest trading the AFL has seen and already getting lost in the number of threads on WOOF (i've mainly started them all.... sorry). I thought like last year we can have one central place for trade talk, rumours, hypotheticals and the like. And i'm sure in a week and a halfs time someone will start a sticky of official trades.

Anyhoo, i'm interested to see how the fishing has been going with Everitt. With Brock McLean taking Carlton's first pick, perhaps another club will become odd's on for his services. With Melbourne having 3 picks inside the frist 11, perhaps their 18 might be on the table or another under-developed player - Ben Reid looked good in the finals.

Ocka and DFA could be finding new homes too and of course we need to stitch up Barry ASAP and get him into a decent pre-season. The club say we are going to be aggressive, but with little to no room in the cap, i don't know what the means...

As for other teams, Burgoyne is the intersting one for me as he has both put a high price on his head and nominated Hawthorn who will feel the salary cap squeeze over the next few years. Gibson is the other one, especially if Lake skips out on us.

[azabob]

No to Gibson and no to Matt McGuire.

IMO trading for key position players doesnt work unless a player such as Brad Ottens walks out on his club and nominates Geelong as the prefered destination.
My point is clubs don't trade quality KP unless they have no choice.

Its easier to trade for B Grade midfielders as they are a dime a dozen and more likely to have an impact at their new club.
Hence If other trades are to be done besides Hall, we should look to trade for draft picks only, not players.

[Remi Moses]

Just brace yourself for B/S rumours and talkback callers echoing trades heavily in favour of the club they support:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[bulldogtragic]

Just brace yourself for B/S rumours and talkback callers echoing trades heavily in favour of the club they support:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Pav and Sandilands for our 3rd rounder and Wight isn't true... :)

[bulldogtragic]

With Skip, Wight and possibly Dre gone, i think we need another ruck. Carlton have 5 ruck options, so hopefully we can cut one from the heard with the liklihood of more chances.

The bottom two are Cloke and Jacobs. Any firm views for games seen from either player to suggest we should be looking at either player for a lowish selection or similar?

[LostDoggy]

Not James Fantasia or anyone at the club has said we are looking to trade skinny. Something still isn't adding up in my books.

[bulldogtragic]

Not James Fantasia or anyone at the club has said we are looking to trade skinny. Something still isn't adding up in my books.
Trust the people on this forum. It's not a guarantee he is leaving, but many posters on here have very good listening skills and good typing skills. You wouldn't expect the club or Fantasia to say he is on the market yet. As he is contracted we hold the chips, i would expect us to maintain he is a required player for a while yet. If the offer is good, then it could likely happen. If the offers aren't good, then meh.

[comrade]

With Skip, Wight and possibly Dre gone, i think we need another ruck. Carlton have 5 ruck options, so hopefully we can cut one from the heard with the liklihood of more chances.

The bottom two are Cloke and Jacobs. Any firm views for games seen from either player to suggest we should be looking at either player for a lowish selection or similar?

BT, your continued fascination with Cameron Cloke is intriguing

I think I may have to start up another WOOF based club:

CCIP

I'll let you work out what it means :D

[GVGjr]

BT, your continued fascination with Cameron Cloke is intriguing



One of the Carlton supporter guys I work with said he would personally drive Cloke out to the Whitten Oval just to make sure he got there.

[bulldogtragic]

BT, your continued fascination with Cameron Cloke is intriguing

I think I may have to start up another WOOF based club:

CCIP

I'll let you work out what it means :D
:)

How do you come back to that Comrade...

It's not necessarily CC, it's that he fits the bill of a season AFL ruck that comes reletively cheap. I can't think of too many others that fit this criteria. I'm happy to find others, beleive me. Whether that is Jacobs is the question. 200cm, 100kg, 4 games. Doesn't look like a forward to me, but i ca only recall one game...

Point taken Comrade, i figure of Sedat gets to champion Schultz then CC isn't too much worse :)

[bulldogtragic]

One of the Carlton supporter guys I work with said he would personally drive Cloke out to the Whitten Oval just to make sure he got there.
I'll take that as a tentative 'no' should i GVGjr :)

Have you seen much of Jacobs in your travels?

[LostDoggy]

Trust the people on this forum. It's not a guarantee he is leaving, but many posters on here have very good listening skills and good typing skills. You wouldn't expect the club or Fantasia to say he is on the market yet. As he is contracted we hold the chips, i would expect us to maintain he is a required player for a while yet. If the offer is good, then it could likely happen. If the offers aren't good, then meh.

But all we are going on is Hutchy's gossip column and an article in The Australian right? Is there anything else I'm missing?

[ledge]

I tend to think our own Roughead will take some senior steps next year.

[bulldogtragic]

But all we are going on is Hutchy's gossip column and an article in The Australian right? Is there anything else I'm missing?
This is a very good place to converse with people who know a lot more than Hutchy, and unlike Hutchy also have friends and hair too :). Over time you will pick who they are, and once you work out who to trust in terms of information given, take it to the bank. There is no forum like this of great quality. Just roll with it... :)

[ledge]

This is a very good place to converse with people who know a lot more than Hutchy, and unlike Hutchy also have friends and hair too :). Over time you will pick who they are, and once you work out who to trust in terms of information given, take it to the bank. There is no forum like this of great quality. Just roll with it... :)

Problem??

[GVGjr]

I'll take that as a tentative 'no' should i GVGjr :)

Have you seen much of Jacobs in your travels?


I think Cameron Cloke isn't a good option for us at all. He's not a bad footballer but he's also not someone we need. Jacobs hasn't come on as good as he should have but he'd be an OK back-up.

[bulldogtragic]

Problem??
Not from me. Just making the point HUtchy is a hairless dickwad. That is all.

[bulldogtragic]

I think Cameron Cloke isn't a good option for us at all. He's not a bad footballer but he's also not someone we need. Jacobs hasn't come on as good as he should have but he'd be an OK back-up.
Can we do better than these guys for a second rounder, of these types for a 3rd or lower?

[ledge]

Not from me. Just making the point HUtchy is a hairless dickwad. That is all.

i know of a few hairless undickwads on this site that are great with old player interviews :D

[GVGjr]

Can we do better than these guys for a second rounder, of these types for a 3rd or lower?

I wouldn't spend a 2nd or even a 3rd rounder on either of them but acknowledge that we will need someone to back-up Hudson and Minson.

Perhaps there is a rookie ruckman on another teams list that we could target. Will Sullivan from West Coast might be looking for a return home.

[bulldogtragic]

I wouldn't spend a 2nd or even a 3rd rounder on either of them but acknowledge that we will need someone to back-up Hudson and Minson.

Perhaps there is a rookie ruckman on another teams list that we could target. Will Sullivan from West Coast might be looking for a return home.
The second rounder comment was about spending more to get a better calibre of player, not these 'cashies'. Are there any rucks in between first rounders and cheap as chips? Ideally i'd be happy with a trade down from say 3rd to 4th if it was Carlton, even more so if it was WCE. Unlike past years, I can't see too many rucks being on the market of any decent quality, which forces our hand to these types. Not ideal, but better than Skipper.

[ledge]

Could Temel be turned into a ruckman i wonder, big boy, big hands but has he got the tank?

[GVGjr]

The second rounder comment was about spending more to get a better calibre of player, not these 'cashies'. Are there any rucks in between first rounders and cheap as chips? Ideally i'd be happy with a trade down from say 3rd to 4th if it was Carlton, even more so if it was WCE. Unlike past years, I can't see too many rucks being on the market of any decent quality, which forces our hand to these types. Not ideal, but better than Skipper.

Guys like Seaby will probably be available but him coming to the Dogs wouldn't be ideal for either party. He want's to be more than a 3rd wheel and that's exactly where we would use him.
I'm sure some players will surface during trade week. Getting them is the hard part.

[soupman]

It's definitely looking like a busy week, with several players already announcing/rumoured to be moving:

Shaun Burgoyne wants to go to Hawthorn
Josh Gibson wants to go to Hawthorn
Brock McLean is going to Carlton for pick 11
Barry Hall wants to go to the Bulldogs
Mark Seaby looks like going to Sydney
Brent Staker is looking for a change of clubs
Andrejs Everitt rumoured to be in search of a move
Andrew Raines to Brisbane apparently
Shane Tuck no longer required at Richmond, looking for new club
Daniel Harris no longer required at North Melbourne, looking for new club
Geelong rumoured to have salary cap issues, and desire to move on some of the fringe senior players, such as Josh Hunt, Tom Lonergan and David Johnson.
Andrew Lovett wants out of Essendon
Brett Peake is rumoured to be going to either St.Kilda or Sydney
Richard Hadley is rumoured to be returning to Brisbane
Marcus Drum wants to come to Melbourne, with Hawthorn reportedly showing interest.


With ruckmen it's an interesting situation we are put in. I know many of us are concerned about what to do in the event that one of Minson or Hudson go down, and yet many of these people would be the same ones who would like to see our young players given more responsibility at VFL level to help their development.

If we don't recruit an experienced ruckman then it would mean Roughead would be our number one ruck at VFL level, with one of Cordy, Shaw or Mulligan being support. This would probably be good for Rougheads development, but potentially dangerous in the event that any of our ruckmen get injured.

The flipside is that if we do recruit a ruckman they are either the number 1 ruck at Williamstown (depriving Roughead of 20% match time in ruck), or they are the backup to Roughead and would spend a bit of time up forward, potentially limiting the spots for the Cordy's and Grants (Cameron Cloke falls into this category).

I'm interested to hear posters thoughts on Shaw as a ruckman, because he could potentially be the missing link. I know he was recruited as a 19 year old to the club, and has spent 2 years largely in Willy reserves. He's certainly big enough to act as our backup with Roughead. Is he sufficient?

I would like another young ruckman if he is kept though, as I doubt we would retain more than one of White, Shaw and Mulligan.

[EasternWest]

Wow good post Soupaman.

I for one am against looking at Cameron Cloke. He looks flabby and is a faux tough guy. He's happy to pick fights, but unhappy to go on with them when someone (a big burly Irishman for one) wont stand for his bullying.

[soupman]

On Cloke I think we could certainly do a lot worse, but I don't feel he would offer us anything more than Skipper did. If we were going to go for an experienced ruckman I prefer the idea of going for a younger ruckman who has shown promise but sits about 4th or 5th in the pecking order, similiar to Sam Jacobs without being Sam Jacobs.

[LostDoggy]

Cloke would be a bigger list clogger than Skipper. Whats the point getting someone of equal or less ruck quality to Skipper?

[boydogs]

Would we look at Mumford, Lonergan, Gamble or Taylor from Geelong if made available? Particularly if we lose Skipper, Everitt, Aker or Lake

[soupman]

Cloke would be a bigger list clogger than Skipper. Whats the point getting someone of equal or less ruck quality to Skipper?

I don't know that he would be worse than Skipper, but I certainly don't think he'd offer us anything more.

[soupman]

Would we look at Mumford, Lonergan, Gamble or Taylor from Geelong if made available? Particularly if we lose Skipper, Everitt, Aker or Lake

Taylor is untouchable. Was BOG in the Grand Final in my opinion.

Lonergan isn't bad, but would probably demand our first round pick, and I don't think he's worth that.

Gamble is very good, but probably a required player at Geelong and doesn't really add anything to our forwardline as another marking mid-sized forward.

Mumford I'm unsure of, and would probably be unavailable as he's next in line after Blake and Ottens down there.

[BulldogBelle]

I wouldn't spend a 2nd or even a 3rd rounder on either of them but acknowledge that we will need someone to back-up Hudson and Minson.

Perhaps there is a rookie ruckman on another teams list that we could target. Will Sullivan from West Coast might be looking for a return home.


I can catergorically say that the Dogs didnt officially speak with Will S before he went over to West Coast, and arent speaking with him now

Shame as the young guy was also a Doggies supporter as a kid, and would love to play for them now

[lemmon]

What are everyones feelings on Everitt staying or leaving? At the moment I'd have it at 70% staying and 30% leaving but thats only based on newspaper articles and innuendo

[EasternWest]

Would we look at Mumford, Lonergan, Gamble or Taylor from Geelong if made available? Particularly if we lose Skipper, Everitt, Aker or Lake

No way would we get Taylor. He's been solid for them all year and shored up that spot after his efforts in the GF. Don't know about the others. I really like Gamble, but he's not big enough.

[boydogs]

Taylor is untouchable. Was BOG in the Grand Final in my opinion.

If he were available, would you take him and what would you give up? Say if Lake left and we had room in the cap for a ready made defender. Would he fit the bill?


Lonergan isn't bad, but would probably demand our first round pick, and I don't think he's worth that.

Geelong may be at the point of trading or delisting their developed fringe types and so may not command such high prices (picks/players). Remember the Charlie Gardiner and Steven King deal done with the Saints for I think their 6th and 7th round draft picks. Perhaps a good forward or back option for us if we lose Everitt with better KP prospects?


Gamble is very good, but probably a required player at Geelong and doesn't really add anything to our forwardline as another marking mid-sized forward.

Not sure you can call someone not getting games a required player. He could replace Aker and add youth to our aging forwardline


Mumford I'm unsure of, and would probably be unavailable as he's next in line after Blake and Ottens down there.

He does appear to be their #3 but surely they are going to have to give up some of these types and just go with draftees after three consecutive years in the grand final

It seems to me that we could get some bargains from Geelong ala King/Gardiner, it may take some of our guys to be moved on e.g. Aker, Skipper, Eagle, Everitt, Lake to fit them in the cap but it would be worth speaking to the Cats first if we do lose them.

Looks like we will have more to go around in 2010 as well with the marketing allowance given the Etihad deal and equalisation payments, unless Brian wants it all

[GVGjr]

What are everyones feelings on Everitt staying or leaving? At the moment I'd have it at 70% staying and 30% leaving but thats only based on newspaper articles and innuendo

I'd want him to stay unless there was something very good on offer.

[lemmon]

I'd want him to stay unless there was something very good on offer.

What would something very good involve? Are we talking first round picks?

[GVGjr]

What would something very good involve? Are we talking first round picks?

It's hard to be exact but more about getting a good player rather in return than a draft pick unless someone wanted to offload a top 3 or 4 pick which is very unlikely. We haven't seen the best of Everitt yet and I'd prefer it to be in the RW&B than with another side.

[Doc26]

It's hard to be exact but more about getting a good player rather in return than a draft pick unless someone wanted to offload a top 3 or 4 pick which is very unlikely. We haven't seen the best of Everitt yet and I'd prefer it to be in the RW&B than with another side.

Everitt should only be discussed if we were to trade in for someone like Andrejs. Hey, we've already got him. He should be off the table which is what Fantasia has already kind of said. Andrejs is good enough IF he applies himself to be a key in moving us forward.

[GVGjr]

Could Temel be turned into a ruckman i wonder, big boy, big hands but has he got the tank?

He can't jump and he's 194cm at best. He might be a bit shorter than that.

[Mantis]

What would something very good involve? Are we talking first round picks?

You would hope so.

If he wants to walk we would be hoping for a pick under 20.

[lemmon]

It's hard to be exact but more about getting a good player rather in return than a draft pick unless someone wanted to offload a top 3 or 4 pick which is very unlikely. We haven't seen the best of Everitt yet and I'd prefer it to be in the RW&B than with another side.

Agree whole-heartedly, Everitt could be something special and the offer would have to be something substantial to get it over the line

[LostDoggy]

What are everyones feelings on Everitt staying or leaving? At the moment I'd have it at 70% staying and 30% leaving but thats only based on newspaper articles and innuendo

Definitely want to hang onto Andrejs. Play him as an attacking wing / half forward and let him develop. I honestly dont think we will give him up unless we get an established key position player in return or a first round draft pick. He has alot of upside...

[Hairy Albert]

Everitt should only be discussed if we were to trade in for someone like Andrejs. Hey, we've already got him. He should be off the table which is what Fantasia has already kind of said. Andrejs is good enough IF he applies himself to be a key in moving us forward.

Totally agee, try him at CHF with Murphy on one side , Hahn on the other. I think that would work very nicely. :D

[LostDoggy]

Totally agee, try him at CHF with Murphy on one side , Hahn on the other. I think that would work very nicely. :D

Yes cos the amount of effort Everitt has showed over the past 2 years means CHF would be a great spot for him. Its not like you need to try very hard there.

I don't want to lose Everitt as he is talented but if the only thing that will get him motivated to play the game at the intensity required is a change of clubs or the extra cash then he can piss off.

[Bulldog Joe]

I am happy for Everitt to go.

Want the club to do well with the trade, but I prefer players who put their heart into it.

Everitt accentuated his lack of mental toughness with his pitiful effort in the Williamstown finals, especially the first one. This is when he should have been absolutely determined to show the match committee that he should not have been dropped back.

Instead he gets the sulks and wants out - we do not need softness like that clogging up the list.

[bornadog]

What are everyones feelings on Everitt staying or leaving? At the moment I'd have it at 70% staying and 30% leaving but thats only based on newspaper articles and innuendo

We gave him a two year deal about a month ago. I believe the talk of him being shopped around is from his manager and the club is yet to sit down with him and find out what he wants? Given that, we will not accept anything less than a pick under 20.

I for one would not trade him as he is only 20 years old and 193 cm and has shown he can play. However, he needs to to lift his work rate and intensity and and show some passion about playing at AFL level.

[soupman]

If he were available, would you take him and what would you give up? Say if Lake left and we had room in the cap for a ready made defender. Would he fit the bill?


If Lake left we'd have to make a play for players like Taylor. Taylor specifically though I can't see leaving Geelong. He's their Dale Morris, and you don't trade out Morris even if it is for a first rounder. I would like Taylor at the club, but a) he won't come, b) Geelong won't let him go, c) we couldn't afford him in trade value.

The interesting thing with Taylor however is that he was drafted as a mature age player from the WAFL at pick 17 a few years back (maybe the Grant draft). He's shown that you can find quality key defenders at state level footy, much like Matty Egan showed. So this kind of says we don't neccessarily need to trade for one should Lake go.



Geelong may be at the point of trading or delisting their developed fringe types and so may not command such high prices (picks/players). Remember the Charlie Gardiner and Steven King deal done with the Saints for I think their 6th and 7th round draft picks. Perhaps a good forward or back option for us if we lose Everitt with better KP prospects?


I'm not sure how good Lonergan is, but he could be handy. I'm still of the thought that Barry Hall isn't a guarantee, and another reaqdymade tall forward could be good should they be available cheaply and not be poo. Lonergan I think fits that bill, and if we could secure him for a relatively low pick I'm all for it. I'm not sure if it will happen though.




Not sure you can call someone not getting games a required player. He could replace Aker and add youth to our aging forwardline


Gamble is going to be a good player, and is next in line when Chapman gets injured, which he inevitibly will. I really like Gamble as a player, but I feel he won't add enough to our side when you consider he'll cost upwards of a second rounder. We're better off giving blokes like Stack and Hill that position and seeing how they develop.




He does appear to be their #3 but surely they are going to have to give up some of these types and just go with draftees after three consecutive years in the grand final


I think with Mumford he is clearly their third best ruck behind Blake and the injury prone Ottens. I think he'd get more game time at Geelong than with us, so if he moved he'd be looking at going to a club where he is realistically in their best 22 or so. I'd prefer Roughead to play as our third ruck and be given a few games throughout the season than Mumford.

As for Everitt I'd prefer to keep him, but I'm not sure he should be added to our ruck depth just yet as everybody seems to be doing. I think he has a lot of promise, but I'm unsure where he should play. He's not defensive enough for a defender, doesn't look to work hard enough as a forward and isn't really a midfielder or ruck. I think the only position he really does fit the bill for is the wing, and even then I'm not convinced.

I want to keep him though unless he wants out. If he leaves I want a first rounder in the vicinity of 11-19. There was talk on the Carlton board of Everitt and our 4th rounder to Carlton for their third rounder and Matt Austin, and from what I've read Austin seems alright so I'd entertain that idea.

[Mofra]

I'm not sure how good Lonergan is, but he could be handy. I'm still of the thought that Barry Hall isn't a guarantee, and another reaqdymade tall forward could be good should they be available cheaply and not be poo. Lonergan I think fits that bill, and if we could secure him for a relatively low pick I'm all for it. I'm not sure if it will happen though.

...

I want to keep him though unless he wants out. If he leaves I want a first rounder in the vicinity of 11-19. There was talk on the Carlton board of Everitt and our 4th rounder to Carlton for their third rounder and Matt Austin, and from what I've read Austin seems alright so I'd entertain that idea.
I'd be happy to bring either player into the club - as much as the focus is on tall forwards, it's tall defenders I'm worried about.
Bou isn't ready, Williams is injury and we have nobody else developing. Even if we manage to hold onto Lake a reasonable CHB would be very handy.

[Rocco Jones]

If Lonergan was on any other list everyone would think he was an out and out dud.

[bulldogtragic]

If Lonergan was on any other list everyone would think he was an out and out dud.
I'm with you Rocco. Take the horrific injury and his steadfast courage out of the picture, he's behind in the pecking order to Ash Hansen. And as we know, H.I.P.

[Remi Moses]

Cloke would be a bigger list clogger than Skipper. Whats the point getting someone of equal or less ruck quality to Skipper?

I agree Ernie the fascination for ordinary footballers from other clubs is staggering:rolleyes::rolleyes:Cloke would be handy in another era but he moves like a 90 year old oak tree

[chef]

Looks like Fevolas on the market and thank god he's out of our price range:).

[DOG GOD]

Looks like Fevolas on the market and thank god he's out of our price range:).

wheres this info from?

[Rocco Jones]

I think it will be the same old, same old with Carlton when it comes to Fev.

Say all the right things to the media, we are reviewing his position at club, he is on his last chance etc but it will just be lip service. He is/they view him as being too important to their onfield fortunes. They truly believe it and he knows it. As long as Fev produces onfield, they will be happy to turn a blind eye to him being a total dickhead.

Paranoid hat for a moment. Trading out Fev would free up some cashola for Lake.

[LostDoggy]

As long as Fev produces onfield, they will be happy to turn a blind eye to him being a total dickhead.


Agree. Like any other club would want to dump a 80-90 per season goalkicker..they would be buggered without him

[chef]

wheres this info from?

The family of a current Carlton player who i feed nearly everyday. It seems the players have had enough.

[aker39]

The family of a current Carlton player who i feed nearly everyday. It seems the players have had enough.

Would that be Andrew Walkers family?

[ledge]

So its the players who have had enough? not the club?
Makes Carlton look even worse.
Personally i would have thought the players would have had enough after he ridicules the captain on TV!
Cant see Juddy feeding Fev next year on the field, the problems just keep mounting!
I hope Juddy went into Kernahans office and said "I am not playing with that dick, its him or me"

After reading they have postponed meeting is this to get time to try and bring the other players around to playing with him?

[chef]

Would that be Andrew Walkers family?

That would be correct. They are of the opinion that if a suitable trade can be done, it will happen. The Judd incident seems to be the finally straw.

[LostDoggy]

Someone rang up on SEN and said that there was definitely more to it, and it involved what Fev said to Judd apparently.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Paranoid hat for a moment. Trading out Fev would free up some cashola for Lake.

Salary cap does not apply to Carlton anyway.

[bulldogtragic]

Someone rang up on SEN and said that there was definitely more to it, and it involved what Fev said to Judd apparently.
Which was?

[LostDoggy]

Which was?

They never said exactly, but just mentioned it had something to do with Judd.

[bulldogtragic]

They never said exactly, but just mentioned it had something to do with Judd.
Thanks mate.

[Rocco Jones]

Salary cap does not apply to Carlton anyway.

:) I knew you would say that.

It would to some degree if they were going to get him via the PSD. They would have to set a contract high enough to avoid Melbourne and co. but low enough to fit into their "official" salary cap payments.

[chef]

:) I knew you would say that.

It would to some degree if they were going to get him via the PSD. They would have to set a contract high enough to avoid Melbourne and co. but low enough to fit into their "official" salary cap payments.

There would have to be zero chance of him lasting until Carltons pick.

[Rocco Jones]

There would have to be zero chance of him lasting until Carltons pick.

That's it. If Carlton want to offer him a job with Visy or the like, they will also have to come up with an official figure that's higher than Melbourne and the rest.

[LostDoggy]

Sydney are always rumored to be after Fevalinko

Even though Roos has said "He's contracted and not on our radar"

Wtf would Sydney have to do to get that deal done?

Pick 6, 22 & a player like Luke Ablett? I dunno if they have the ammo to pick him up..

[Rocco Jones]

Sydney are always rumored to be after Fevalinko

Even though Roos has said "He's contracted and not on our radar"

Wtf would Sydney have to do to get that deal done?

Pick 6, 22 & a player like Luke Ablett? I dunno if they have the ammo to pick him up..

If Sydney were a real club they wouldn't be thinking about trading for Fev. They need to load up on draft picks and young talent into their squad. But as their market deprives them of that luxury and the higher powers would be putting the heat on Roos, Longmire and co. to go after Sideshow Fev.

I think even pick 6 would be too much for the Swans in their current predicament. It would make an interesting trade, with the clubs current on field interests directly opposing the trade. Carlton would be thinking they could be contenders soon and the Swans really need to get kids in.

[Go_Dogs]

Carlton would be thinking they could be contenders soon and the Swans really need to get kids in.

Exactly, would be a dumb trade for all parties.

[chef]

That's it. If Carlton want to offer him a job with Visy or the like, they will also have to come up with an official figure that's higher than Melbourne and the rest.

You would think Melbourne paying only 92% of their cap and Bailey being in the last year of his contract(he needs to win games or he's sacked), they would grab Lake no matter what figure he puts on his head(and it has to be for over two years i think).

[Doc26]

As for Everitt I'd prefer to keep him, but I'm not sure he should be added to our ruck depth just yet as everybody seems to be doing. I think he has a lot of promise, but I'm unsure where he should play. He's not defensive enough for a defender, doesn't look to work hard enough as a forward and isn't really a midfielder or ruck. I think the only position he really does fit the bill for is the wing, and even then I'm not convinced.

I want to keep him though unless he wants out. If he leaves I want a first rounder in the vicinity of 11-19. There was talk on the Carlton board of Everitt and our 4th rounder to Carlton for their third rounder and Matt Austin, and from what I've read Austin seems alright so I'd entertain that idea.

I agree that Andrejs best position for now is on the wing but then there's nothing wrong with that. His development stalled this year but should develop into a very valuable player.

[LostDoggy]

I think that the contract status of Eagleton will heavily weigh into Everitt's considerations. Everitt's primarily contending with Hill and Eagleton for their positions in the 22. Hill, whilst having many areas of his game to work on, has shown more at the AFL level than Everitt therefore justifying his selection over Everitt (IMO). Eagleton is a 261 game veteran who averaged 20 disposals and 5 inside 50's in 2009. He is an important part of our game plan. If he was to play on in 2010, you would think that he'd get picked over Everitt every time.

This is where Everitt may be feeling insecure about his position on the team (if he is at all-pure speculation) As shown this year, he can be used as a backup ruckman , forward or defender. In our 22, he really is a 'jack of all trades, master of none'. Come finals time, the selectors opt for the 'positional specialists' every time (see Callan's selection over Everitt- Everitt's a more rounded player, Callan's better at his selected position)

If the Bald Eagle decides to retire a spot automatically opens up for Everitt. If this is the case, Everitt plays round one after a massive, injury-free pre-season and doesn't look back from there (I hope). If Eagleton plays on, Everitt may look for better opportunities elsewhere like his brother did many times before him.

[The Coon Dog]

Comprehensive wrap in today's Herald Sun by John Ralph, including this little gem:

The Western Bulldogs have told Lake and his management that he won't be traded under any circumstances.

With the parties believed to be up to $100,000 apart in salary talks, Lake is said to be willing to take his chances in the pre-season draft.

Article in full... (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/national-draft-keeps-afl-players-on-toes/story-e6frf9jf-1225780649354)

[LostDoggy]

Now that B Fevola might be on the market, could we trade for him? and what are we willing to trade.

Thoughts.

[GVGjr]

It's interesting that Andrew Walker remains on this list given that he has just signed a contract with the Blues.

It's going to be a busy trade week once a couple of the deals are finalised. There should be a lot of players changing clubs this year.

[GVGjr]

Now that B Fevola might be on the market, could we trade for him? and what are we willing to trade.

Thoughts.

If we have committed to Hall it just about cancels us out of the calculation to trade for Fevola.

[LostDoggy]

Thanks GVGjr
But is the contract signed? Fev will be 28 yrs old next year and can offer us at least another 3-4 yrs.
Very expense pay check though.
If Fev as available last year, i reckon we would have been very aggressive in trade week.

[chef]

It's interesting that Andrew Walker remains on this list given that he has just signed a contract with the Blues.

It's going to be a busy trade week once a couple of the deals are finalised. There should be a lot of players changing clubs this year.

I found this odd too. Walks just signed a two year contract last week and i know for a fact that he is very happy at the Blues(tried talking him into going to the Dogs:D). He's not going anywhere.

[bornadog]

Thanks GVGjr
But is the contract signed? Fev will be 28 yrs old next year and can offer us at least another 3-4 yrs.
Very expense pay check though.
If Fev as available last year, i reckon we would have been very aggressive in trade week.

the trouble is Fev's salary will hit $700k next year, way out of our price range. However, at 28 years old should get a good 4 more years out of him and he is the best FF at the moment.

[LostDoggy]

the trouble is Fev's salary will hit $700k next year, way out of our price range. However, at 28 years old should get a good 4 more years out of him and he is the best FF at the moment.

I'd say he won't be leaving cos any other club in their right mind would want Carlton to cover at least half of that 700K for a guy with some huge and recent baggage. Carlton won't do it and they really deserve each other anyway.

[bornadog]

I'd say he won't be leaving cos any other club in their right mind would want Carlton to cover at least half of that 700K for a guy with some huge and recent baggage. Carlton won't do it and they really deserve each other anyway.

I can't see them getting rid of him. He has kicked 99 goals in 2008 and 80 odd this year.

So, he got drunk and did some silly things, but nothing illegal. What about all those using drugs and on two strikes (and rumours of three strikes but no action).

They will sit down with Fev, enrole him in AA and that will be that.

[Mofra]

It would to some degree if they were going to get him via the PSD. They would have to set a contract high enough to avoid Melbourne and co. but low enough to fit into their "official" salary cap payments.
Melbourne have plenty of moolah to spend.
They have front loaded contracts in 09 to meet the minimum 92.5% salary cap requirement, and Brock McLean leaving means they are effectively paying just over 80% of their salary cap prior to the draft/trade period.

Picking up Lake would mean the Dees don't have to renegotiate contracts or overpay non-established players. Brian should probably take note.

[LostDoggy]

I can't see them getting rid of him. He has kicked 99 goals in 2008 and 80 odd this year.

So, he got drunk and did some silly things, but nothing illegal.
I would have thought rumours of sexual harassment are bordering on criminal.


They will sit down with Fev, enrole him in AA and that will be that.
Alcohol gets a bad rap it doesn't deserve when Fev will always be an idiot alcohol or not.

[chef]

Melbourne have plenty of moolah to spend.
They have front loaded contracts in 09 to meet the minimum 92.5% salary cap requirement, and Brock McLean leaving means they are effectively paying just over 80% of their salary cap prior to the draft/trade period.

Picking up Lake would mean the Dees don't have to renegotiate contracts or overpay non-established players. Brian should probably take note.

As well as Bailey being in the last year of his contract. He would need to start winning some games or he won't be their in 2011.

[LostDog]

I'm getting very nervous

Last week i was so excited about the prospects of Bazza coming.
Now Lake wont sign, Everitt wants out
Rumours say Grant wants out as well

What the hell is happening is Rocket losing face with players by playing people that should have been dropped.

I was looking forward to next week during the trade period but not i'm nervous I think we will get bent over on Everitt

[LostDog]

Maguire and Drum are on the market we will have to try and get one of these guys if Lake wont play nice

[Desipura]

I think we all need to calm down. If we lost Lake, (I personally doubt we will) we will no doubt be compensated. I do not believe he will risk going in the preseason or National draft.
Everitt is creating alot of interest so we wont be screwed over there.
Grant rumours are on BF, I have never known that site to have gotten a rumour correct.

[bornadog]

What the hell is happening is Rocket losing face with players by playing people that should have been dropped.

If thats the reason players want out, then all I can say is they are sooky la la la's and they can piss off.

[LostDoggy]

If thats the reason players want out, then all I can say is they are sooky la la la's and they can piss off.

Amen, brother.

[LostDoggy]

Has anyone heard that the Fev situation may lead to Barry Hall not coming to the Dogs? This from the Australian (admittedly by Greg Dumbass Denham and Patrick So-Wrong Smith, who if they were the betting type would be so broke they would have men coming around to break their legs):


While a final decision is yet to be made, Fevola may have run out of chances and could be offered for trade next week, possibly to Sydney. Should Fevola be traded to the Swans, they may make a case for swapping Barry Hall to the Blues, instead of his preferred destination, the Western Bulldogs.

Should Fevola be put on the trade table on Monday, an obvious new home for him would be Sydney, due to the retirement of key forward Michael O'Loughlin and the departure of Hall, who wants to be traded to the Bulldogs, but may have to go to Carlton along with a second-round selection to make it easier for Fevola to move north.

The Swans are believed to be at least $2million under their salary cap and have a history of trading in high-profile players from Victorian clubs.

[LostDog]

I like Everitt for Maguire and St Kilda's 1st round Draft Pick

[bulldogsman]

Has anyone heard that the Fev situation may lead to Barry Hall not coming to the Dogs? This from the Australian (admittedly by Greg Dumbass Denham and Patrick So-Wrong Smith, who if they were the betting type would be so broke they would have men coming around to break their legs):


While a final decision is yet to be made, Fevola may have run out of chances and could be offered for trade next week, possibly to Sydney. Should Fevola be traded to the Swans, they may make a case for swapping Barry Hall to the Blues, instead of his preferred destination, the Western Bulldogs.

Should Fevola be put on the trade table on Monday, an obvious new home for him would be Sydney, due to the retirement of key forward Michael O'Loughlin and the departure of Hall, who wants to be traded to the Bulldogs, but may have to go to Carlton along with a second-round selection to make it easier for Fevola to move north.

The Swans are believed to be at least $2million under their salary cap and have a history of trading in high-profile players from Victorian clubs.

Wrong again Denham. Roo's was just on SEN before and said it was highly unlikely as they aren't in a position to entertain Fev (must be out of alcohol). He seemed very keen to get Seaby though.

[Ozza]

I like Everitt for Maguire and St Kilda's 1st round Draft Pick

Interested on your thinking on Goose Maguire? For mine - I would have thought he'd be lucky to get picked up anywhere - and has simply missed too much footy.

I guess he could maybe be a depth player - if we did get that 1st round pick - but I'm not super keen to get rid of Everitt. The mail is that his preference is Carlton. I'd much rather keep Everitt than Addison if it came down to one or the other.

[LostDoggy]

Interested on your thinking on Goose Maguire? For mine - I would have thought he'd be lucky to get picked up anywhere - and has simply missed too much footy.

I guess he could maybe be a depth player - if we did get that 1st round pick - but I'm not super keen to get rid of Everitt. The mail is that his preference is Carlton. I'd much rather keep Everitt than Addison if it came down to one or the other.

Ive got a sneaking suspicion that if Harley leaves Geelong then Goose will end up there. They want to keep the success rolling they may need an experienced KPP.

[GVGjr]

Rumours say Grant wants out as well



And the guy that posted that is very well known for starting BS rumors that paint him in the light as someone in the know but in reality he rarely if ever gets it right.

[LostDoggy]

I left BF because of crap like that, no need to spread it to here.

[LostDoggy]

Can't see Grant wanting to go anywhere, i think he is held up in pretty high regard around the club. When you read press releases or club management on the radio, Grant always gets a mention about being our future & being a part of the club moving forward.

Would be surprised if he wanted out, considering he is getting closer to senior games at Whitten Oval.

[Big_Willba]

Can't see Grant wanting to go anywhere, i think he is held up in pretty high regard around the club. When you read press releases or club management on the radio, Grant always gets a mention about being our future & being a part of the club moving forward.

Would be surprised if he wanted out, considering he is getting closer to senior games at Whitten Oval.

didnt he get dropped last in the season to the willy 2's? thats going backwards isnt it.

Has O'Keefe signed or is he being traded?

[GetDimmaBack]

Does that mean O'Keeffe really is trade bait, TCD?
Hard to work out everything in the paper ATM!

[Mantis]

Does that mean O'Keeffe really is trade bait, TCD?
Hard to work out everything in the paper ATM!

I'm pretty sure he hasn't been re-signed as yet and if other clubs are interested I am sure the club will field offers. After his poor finals series it will be interesting to if other clubs come a knocking.

[The Coon Dog]

Does that mean O'Keeffe really is trade bait, TCD?
Hard to work out everything in the paper ATM!

I would have thought it was pretty accurate.

[LostDoggy]

Listening to drongos calling SEN today about "what possible trades have you heard about"..that right there was a stupid question..

2 Examples

One guy ringing up saying Mark Blake was off to the Gold Coast <- wtf? thats like saying yep I heard they are gunna sign Brad Johnson.

Then this other bloke calls up. "The bulldogs will get Jarrod Roughead AND Barry Hall"

Um ok...guess this guy hasnt heard of a salary cap? Roughie AND Hall would be nice but seriously why bother calling that in, sif itd happen! ;)

[Remi Moses]

Buckle up folks it's only going to get worse:eek:

[Bulldog Joe]

I'm not super keen to get rid of Everitt. The mail is that his preference is Carlton. I'd much rather keep Everitt than Addison if it came down to one or the other.

Have to strongly disagree with this.

Everitt lacks intensity. Even if he does start to fulfil his potential, he is likely to be a liability in important games.

Addison will give his all.

It is easier to improve skill levels than get a heart transplant.

[GVGjr]

Have to strongly disagree with this.

Everitt lacks intensity. Even if he does start to fulfil his potential, he is likely to be a liability in important games.

Addison will give his all.

It is easier to improve skill levels than get a heart transplant.

But we knew Everitt was a laconic type when he was drafted and I don't believe he would be a liability in important games.
The heart transplant reference isn't a good one.

[ReLoad]

Well it seems the Spider Jr is now leaving the Kennel, so the question is what should we get for him? what is he worth?

Personally i think we need an instant impact player, so who is the right man for the job?

Side note whats with the talk about Grant being affected with the everitt deal? anyone know the inside scoop on this?

[bulldogtragic]

HUN is being scurilious about whether Aaron Davey will re-sign. If Melbourne are interested in Everitt as rumoured, should we be getting in his ear and finding room in the cap for him?

[Mantis]

HUN is being scurilious about whether Aaron Davey will re-sign. If Melbourne are interested in Everitt as rumoured, should we be getting in his ear and finding room in the cap for him?

If we can't find extra room for Lake I doubt we can for Davey, unless Lake decides to leave of course.

[Ozza]

Can't see Grant wanting to go anywhere, i think he is held up in pretty high regard around the club. When you read press releases or club management on the radio, Grant always gets a mention about being our future & being a part of the club moving forward.

Would be surprised if he wanted out, considering he is getting closer to senior games at Whitten Oval.

Are you sure about this? I have heard the complete opposite and have heard of alot of criticism around recruiting circles about us using our number 5 pick on him.

I hope he turns out to be a player - we need to give him time - but geez - I'm not confident about Grant whatsoever.

[Ozza]

Have to strongly disagree with this.

Everitt lacks intensity. Even if he does start to fulfil his potential, he is likely to be a liability in important games.

Addison will give his all.

It is easier to improve skill levels than get a heart transplant.

Pretty harsh on the heart transplant front. I think Everitt looks like he lacks intensity but he still puts his head over it. If anything - he may be a little unsure of himself at times and needs to learn the game a bit more.

Addison has serious pace issues. Gets caught all the time and has been left behind development wise by guys like Harbrow and Picken - and I think Wood is a better option at half back. We can afford to lose him.

[bulldogtragic]

If we can't find extra room for Lake I doubt we can for Davey, unless Lake decides to leave of course.
I was thinking of a choice between trading Everitt (who may want out) and moving on both or either Aker and Eagle (one year left) versus having Aaron Davey for a few years.

Although if we do have a near 2 million dollar hole in the cap over 4 years, we will have to see what quality player/s we can fill it with.

[LostDoggy]

Okay, so I know this question has been asked already, but if:

Geelong can find space for Gablett, Scarlett, Mooney, Bartel, Ling, Selwood, Corey, Steve Johnson, Ottens, Enright, Harley etc.

Hawthorn can fit Franklin, Roughhead, Hodge, Sewell, Rioli etc. in the same team,

Carlton has space for Judd, Murphy, Fev, Gibbs, and Stevens..

St. Kilda has Riewoldt, Kosi, Dal Santo, Hayes, King, Fisher, Gilbert, Goddard etc...

--

How come we can't fit anyone else in the cap except Hall on the cheap (so no Pav, no Fev etc.)? It's not like we've got an expensive gun KPF on the list.. Johnno and Aker are on the vets list, and our top earners would be Coons, Griff, Murph, Gia, and Gilbs, all good players, but only Coons and Murph would be consistently elite at the moment. Who's got all the money here? Are we overpaying our kids? Is it because we have more mid-tier players than anyone else? More 'mature age' players? What's going on?

The extra services payment thingy can't be the whole story here.

ps. and what does Smorgo mean by 'trading aggressively' if the club keeps saying we have no salary cap room?

[The Coon Dog]

^^^

Aker is not on the vet's list.

[LostDoggy]

^^^

Aker is not on the vet's list.

Okay. But he'll be playing on the smell of an oily rag next year, so it still doesn't answer my question.

[The Coon Dog]

Okay. But he'll be playing on the smell of an oily rag next year, so it still doesn't answer my question.

I never attempted to answer your question, just getting a fact straight.

Really, none of us on here can answer your question.

[bulldogtragic]

Okay. But he'll be playing on the smell of an oily rag next year, so it still doesn't answer my question.
The answer must be our ability to negotiate and the culture of the club/players. It would seem to me most Geelong players know they are a part of history and that's worth more than an extra $50,000 a year. Isn't that right Brian...?

[LostDoggy]

The answer must be our ability to negotiate and the culture of the club/players. It would seem to me most Geelong players know they are a part of history and that's worth more than an extra $50,000 a year. Isn't that right Brian...?

You're right.. I'm not just talking about Brian here, are we over-paying too many of our players?

We know that if we roll over here, we'll lose Cooney or Higgo in a couple of years, so is the Brian situation essentially a result of similar situations in the past which means that we can't pay him closer to what he's worth on the open market?

[bulldogtragic]

You're right.. I'm not just talking about Brian here, are we over-paying too many of our players?

We know that if we roll over here, we'll lose Cooney or Higgo in a couple of years, so is the Brian situation essentially a result of similar situations in the past which means that we can't pay him closer to what he's worth on the open market?
Million dollar question right here. I'm not sure. I thought prior to this Brian was a solid team man who would take a generous deal. Perhaps it's just personalities, and i hope it is. Because if Brian is symptom of a 'whats in it for me beyond onfield success' culture, then we will be rebuilding almost immediately as others will leave for cash.

And as i'm writing this i'm getting pissed off with Brian. As a club leader he has the opportunity to personally create a 'club/team' culture. He could have done the backroom hustle quitely and then come out and said 'yeah i could have gotten more, but you blokes and our destiny means more to me. Follow my lead and do the right thing by each other'. His actions now are creating a culture going the other way. In fact i'm now furiosly pissed off. What a lead he could have given Coons, Griff, Higgo and everyone else, what an example he could have set. Imagine how many good things he could have done for this club if it was managed better. If the club relents Brian will have done so much irrepriable damage, even if he stays. These are not the actions of a leader who gives a shit about the club's future. He had the opportunity to be a West, Grant, Smith or Johnson. Now he's a mecrinary who had put himself before the immediate and long terms needs of the club. He is setting a dangerous example for the future and i want the club to take an incredibly strong line.

... And RickyO needs to have his legs broken for the way he conducts business, this is two very poor negotiations out of two now. History shows you can get good deals without being devious and underhanded. He is a cancer.

[Scorlibo]

Lantern we have a lot of players in the prime of their careers at the moment, who would be getting paid a fair bit.

Giansiracusa, Hargrave, Hahn, Gilbee, Murphy, Morris, Cross and Boyd.

Gia is a leader at the club, considered a possible future captain. Hargrave had an AA year this year and has been a very reliable defender for years now. Gilbee is an AA. Boyd is an AA. Cross club B+F. Murphy is the best key forward below 190cm in the league. Hahn is one of the better ones too.

Its not hard to see how we could be in a bit of trouble considering these players as well as Lake wanting more, and Griff, Coons and Higgo as the young guns in need of good payment.

[Hot_Doggies]

Lantern we have a lot of players in the prime of their careers at the moment, who would be getting paid a fair bit.

Giansiracusa, Hargrave, Hahn, Gilbee, Murphy, Morris, Cross and Boyd.

Gia is a leader at the club, considered a possible future captain. Hargrave had an AA year this year and has been a very reliable defender for years now. Gilbee is an AA. Boyd is an AA. Cross club B+F. Murphy is the best key forward below 190cm in the league. Hahn is one of the better ones too.

Its not hard to see how we could be in a bit of trouble considering these players as well as Lake wanting more, and Griff, Coons and Higgo as the young guns in need of good payment.


If you want to keep Lake,Higgins, Cooney and Griff etc the simple thing is to cut/trade Cross, Hahn or Gia.

Is there any point in getting Hall if Lake goes?

[comrade]

Fantasia has a word on the topic




Dogs confident on Everitt, Lake (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/85494/default.aspx)
By Jason Phelan
Wed 30 September, 2009

WITH Brian Lake yet to sign a new deal and Andrejs Everitt starved of opportunities rival clubs are circling the Western Bulldogs, but football manager James Fantasia is confident both players will remain at Whitten Oval next year.

Lake, 27, and his management put off contract talks until the end of the 2009 season which saw him rewarded with All-Australian honours.

With trade week approaching, the impasse between the two parties on the lucrative new deal is generating trade speculation but Fantasia was quick to pour cold water on such talk at the NAB AFL Draft Camp in Canberra on Wednesday.

"There's never been issues with him going to another club," he said.

"It's simply been a bit of a stand-off with some detail within the package that's been put before him, but I'm confident it will take shape.

"I'm confident that we can resolve any problem that might be there."

With several AFL players already putting their desire for a fresh start on the public record, the coming trade period promises to be a busy one. Fantasia, however, was confident Lake will not become part of the exchange period action.

"Not at all because for a deal to be done we have to actively involved," he said.

"We've said it very, very firmly - I'm happy to say it again … Brian Lake is an untouchable player.

"We have a window of opportunity before us as a footy club and we see Brian as an integral part of that. There's never been – even from his camp – anything about going to another club; it's never been about that."

Fantasia spoke with Lake's management on Tuesday, but further progress is unlikely this week with Lake heading off on holidays with a group of teammates before Saturday night's Charlie Sutton Medal count.

Up to four clubs have shown interest in Everitt after he managed just seven games in his third year at the club since being taken eleventh overall in the 2006 NAB AFL Draft.

The 20-year-old impressed in a back-up role to lead ruckman Will Minson in the round-22 win over Collingwood, but did not play in any of the Dogs' three finals.

"He's a required player. It's as simple as that," Fantasia said.

"I know it's a difficult time because you do get players who might be a little bit unsettled because they haven’t played a lot of footy or been given the opportunity.

"I'd be surprised if Andrejs didn't get the interest that he's had because he's a quality kid, but he's a required player.

"You never say never in this business, I understand that, but that's simply how we're looking at it."

Fantasia admitted there was a touch of 'Border Patrol' about his efforts to repel unwanted advances from rival clubs, but he said the Dogs wouldn't be afraid to launch a few raiding parties of their own during trade week if suitable scenarios presented themselves.

"We're certainly still in the market for some talls … We want to continue to build that part of our list and we've got other issues that we need to address as well with other player types like small forward which would be another type we'd like to attract," he said.

"We're going to go into trade week aggressive, but without being silly about it. One thing we won't do is we won't be doing a trade for the sake of doing a trade.

"We've got a very good list; a very good development list. What we've got to do is review some of the older players on our list and see how that stacks up, but outside of that we're pretty comfortable with how we're tracking."

Decisions on the playing futures of veterans Jason Akermanis and Nathan Eagleton won't be made until after the trading period according to Fantasia.

[LostDoggy]

Music to my ears..... Now that wasnt so hard was it Fantasia,

[bulldogsman]

Good news!! What small forward should we be targeting? Should we go after Stokes?

[Swoop]

This is really a nothing article for mine, we came out and made similar comments about Ray last year in hope that he would change his mind but he didn't. This is all just part of the negotiation games they play as far as I'm concerned.

Also I find it hard to believe we will be too active in the trade period considering we are struggling to budge on the Lake deal, where will we find the extra money to accomodate other players?

Finally, does anyone else find it strange that we will wait until after the trade period before finalising the Akermanis & Eagleton situation? Surely whether these two stay or go would play a big factor in what we do in trade week.

[Mofra]

Finally, does anyone else find it strange that we will wait until after the trade period before finalising the Akermanis & Eagleton situation? Surely whether these two stay or go would play a big factor in what we do in trade week.
Not really - if we get someone who can play their spots on the cheap, and free up some dollars, perhaps that will help us keep Lake, nab Barry, and have a few bob left over for when the negotiation fun starts next year.


Interesting to note that:

Fantasia spoke with Lake's management on Tuesday, but further progress is unlikely this week with Lake heading off on holidays with a group of teammates before Saturday night's Charlie Sutton Medal count.
...according to the article. Anyone know who Lake is holidaying with?

[bulldogtragic]

This is really a nothing article for mine, we came out and made similar comments about Ray last year in hope that he would change his mind but he didn't. This is all just part of the negotiation games they play as far as I'm concerned.

Also I find it hard to believe we will be too active in the trade period considering we are struggling to budge on the Lake deal, where will we find the extra money to accomodate other players?

Finally, does anyone else find it strange that we will wait until after the trade period before finalising the Akermanis & Eagleton situation? Surely whether these two stay or go would play a big factor in what we do in trade week.
I agree. What is Fantasia going to say. This isn't enough to comfort me. Not close.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Finally, does anyone else find it strange that we will wait until after the trade period before finalising the Akermanis & Eagleton situation? Surely whether these two stay or go would play a big factor in what we do in trade week.

I think you've put the cart before the horse.

What happens in trade week will determine whether we can keep them.

I think there is no doubt that in a perfect world we would keep them, especially Aker, but if we can't get a trade for Dre or perhaps ship DFA off to Sydney for Hall, we might not have enough left in the kick for them.

[GVGjr]

How come we can't fit anyone else in the cap except Hall on the cheap (so no Pav, no Fev etc.)? It's not like we've got an expensive gun KPF on the list.. Johnno and Aker are on the vets list, and our top earners would be Coons, Griff, Murph, Gia, and Gilbs, all good players, but only Coons and Murph would be consistently elite at the moment. Who's got all the money here? Are we overpaying our kids? Is it because we have more mid-tier players than anyone else? More 'mature age' players? What's going on?

The extra services payment thingy can't be the whole story here.

ps. and what does Smorgo mean by 'trading aggressively' if the club keeps saying we have no salary cap room?

Whilst I'm not sure that Hall's financial demands would be regarded as cheap we are obviously paying some of the average talent on our list above average wages.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Whilst I'm not sure that Hall's financial demands would be regarded as cheap we are obviously paying some of the average talent on our list above average wages.

Perhaps this is where the club will be active in the trading period. Freeing up more cash etc. by trading off a few of the over paid average talent?

[GVGjr]

Perhaps this is where the club will be active in the trading period. Freeing up more cash etc. by trading off a few of the over paid average talent?

I think it's part of the reason we have been ridding the side of so many 1st round draft picks.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Perhaps this is where the club will be active in the trading period. Freeing up more cash etc. by trading off a few of the over paid average talent?

Sounds great, as long as some other club doesn't mind over paying as well. I can't se too many players wanting to go somewhere new for a lower contract.

[Bulldog4life]

Fantasia has a word on the topic

"There's never been issues with him going to another club," he said.

"It's simply been a bit of a stand-off with some detail within the package that's been put before him, but I'm confident it will take shape.

"I'm confident that we can resolve any problem that might be there."

With several AFL players already putting their desire for a fresh start on the public record, the coming trade period promises to be a busy one. Fantasia, however, was confident Lake will not become part of the exchange period action.

"Not at all because for a deal to be done we have to actively involved," he said.

"We've said it very, very firmly - I'm happy to say it again … Brian Lake is an untouchable player.

"We have a window of opportunity before us as a footy club and we see Brian as an integral part of that. There's never been – even from his camp – anything about going to another club; it's never been about that."

Call me the supreme optimist but I feel more comfortable about signing up Lake after what Fantasia said.

[LostDoggy]

Rumors of Aaron Davey leaving Melbourne have been squashed, signed a new 4 year deal.

[Doc26]

"Fantasia spoke with Lake's management on Tuesday, but further progress is unlikely this week with Lake heading off on holidays with a group of teammates before Saturday night's Charlie Sutton Medal count."

Missed this article and certainly is far better than one headlining 'Lake Dry With Dogs, Pies Swoop'

Can feel a positive announcement coming at the B&F on Saturday.

[GVGjr]

I have cleaned off a couple of posts that were off topic. There is plenty to talk about without taking this thread away from the title.

[Swoop]

Rumors of Aaron Davey leaving Melbourne have been squashed, signed a new 4 year deal.
Davey reportedly earning 2.3 million over four years. I understand they have room in the cap, they don't want to lose another player and he's coming off a good season but is that price tag justified?

[bornadog]

Read in one of the papers that Griffin from Adelaide is out of contract and doesn't mind if he had to change clubs. Any interest from any one?

[Remi Moses]

Notice Matthew Stokes is out of contract,any interest ?

[GVGjr]

Read in one of the papers that Griffin from Adelaide is out of contract and doesn't mind if he had to change clubs. Any interest from any one?

He's not a bad option but I think he would view coming to us as having the same problem he has in Adelaide in that there would be two other ruckman ahead of him.

[LostDoggy]

Davey reportedly earning 2.3 million over four years. I understand they have room in the cap, they don't want to lose another player and he's coming off a good season but is that price tag justified?

Nope.

Desperate coach doing desperate things to eke out a few wins next year.

[LostDoggy]

Whilst I'm not sure that Hall's financial demands would be regarded as cheap we are obviously paying some of the average talent on our list above average wages.

Which was what I was hinting at here.


I think it's part of the reason we have been ridding the side of so many 1st round draft picks.

Are you saying that there have been a few guys that have been getting contracts based on potential and drafting position which haven't then been justified by on-field performances?

The market isn't perfect, by any means, but we shouldn't be sucked into overpaying anyone here (Brian, take note) -- the reality is that, in a salary cap era, market price is a pretty good barometer, and if we lose someone, there is always someone else adequate that can come in and do a job.

[Go_Dogs]

He's not a bad option but I think he would view coming to us as having the same problem he has in Adelaide in that there would be two other ruckman ahead of him.

He's also competing against Moran and possible McKernan too for the ruck spot at Adelaide though. He'd be 4th in line right now, with Moran being favored until he was injured.

He has gone forward at times for the Crows and looked ok, and I generally thought he had played better than reported in most of his Crows outings this year. His body still needs a bit of work, but he could be a good option, and perhaps allow some more rotations up forward with our ruck group.

With Roughead probably being able to do the same over the next few years though, we have a longer term option. Griffin could however provide some immediate coverage, and potentially could be better than a back up player. Interesting one.

[LostDoggy]

He's not a bad option but I think he would view coming to us as having the same problem he has in Adelaide in that there would be two other ruckman ahead of him.

If he can't get a place ahead of Sellar, he is no good.

Whilst Adelaide have Maric, Moran, Sellar etc. none of them, I mean none of them, are any good

[LostDoggy]

Another rumour i've heard withing any real basis i think.
Everitt to Sydney for 22 and Hall. i wouldn't be happy with that

[Doc26]

Setting us up for 2010 is really just down to 3 things.
1. Retain Lake
2. Retain Andrejs
3. Pick up Hall for no more than a Round 3 pick.

Any entertaining of moving Andrejs on should be stomped on the head.
2010 may well be his year to seriously come through after 3 years in the system.

[AndrewP6]

Setting us up for 2010 is really just down to 3 things.
1. Retain Lake
2. Retain Andrejs
3. Pick up Hall for no more than a Round 3 pick.

Any entertaining of moving Andrejs on should be stomped on the head.
2011 may well be his year to seriously come through after 3 years in the system.

2010, hopefully!

[Doc26]

2010, hopefully!

Thanks for the correction, yes 2010 indeed.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Another rumour i've heard withing any real basis i think.
Everitt to Sydney for 22 and Hall. i wouldn't be happy with that

I'd do that.

[Drunken Bum]

Another rumour i've heard withing any real basis i think.
Everitt to Sydney for 22 and Hall. i wouldn't be happy with that

I would definately take that under consideration at least

[comrade]

I'd do that.

Really?

We'll get Hall for peanuts and I doubt Rocket will give Dre up for less than a top 20 pick.

[Rocco Jones]

Really?

We'll get Hall for peanuts and I doubt Rocket will give Dre up for less than a top 20 pick.

I'm with you.

I would only trade pick 63 for Hall as it is virtually nothing anyway.

Pick 20 is worth more than pick 22 and 63 imo.

[Doc26]

I'm with you.

I would only trade pick 63 for Hall as it is virtually nothing anyway.

Pick 20 is worth more than pick 22 and 63 imo.

Unless you're from the Tigers.

[LostDoggy]

Very worried by why Lake hasn't re-signed! On face value everything would seem fine a new deal worth heaps on the table,He is playing great footy at a passionate club who came very close to a GF & would seem to be close to the ultimate.Especially with the incoming full forward we have been craving!
Also a previous B&F of the club.

Is it just the extra dollars he will get elsewhere or would he be unhappy at the club for other reasons?

Or am i worried for nothing & he is just playing the 'Game' right out to the end?

[Doc26]

Very worried by why Lake hasn't re-signed! On face value everything would seem fine a new deal worth heaps on the table,He is playing great footy at a passionate club who came very close to a GF & would seem to be close to the ultimate.Especially with the incoming full forward we have been craving!
Also a previous B&F of the club.

Is it just the extra dollars he will get elsewhere or would he be unhappy at the club for other reasons?

Or am i worried for nothing & he is just playing the 'Game' right out to the end?

Aah yes but one should not assume Bryza or Ricky O are of sound mind ;)

Anyway, in this instance it's simply down to greed and looking after #1. For me I'm really disappointed in Brian's actions or lack there of. $1.8m over 4 years is a very fair offer. To say it's appropriate to go out and get the best possible $$ return treats us passionate and loyal supporters with contempt as we keep chipping in our hard earned every year to support the club from gold memberships, social club membership, dog memberships, kids memberships, tables at fundraisers, player sponsorships and enough RW&B paraphernalia to drown in.

[lemmon]

Setting us up for 2010 is really just down to 3 things.
1. Retain Lake
2. Retain Andrejs
3. Pick up Hall for no more than a Round 3 pick.

Any entertaining of moving Andrejs on should be stomped on the head.
2010 may well be his year to seriously come through after 3 years in the system.

I couldn't be happier if this is what eventuated after next week.

[GVGjr]

Aah yes but one should not assume Bryza or Ricky O are of sound mind ;)

Anyway, in this instance it's simply down to greed and looking after #1. For me I'm really disappointed in Brian's actions or lack there of. $1.8m over 4 years is a very fair offer. To say it's appropriate to go out and get the best possible $$ return treats us passionate and loyal supporters with contempt as we keep chipping in our hard earned every year to support the club from gold memberships, social club membership, dog memberships, kids memberships, tables at fundraisers, player sponsorships and enough RW&B paraphernalia to drown in.

I understand what you are saying but I challenge the notion that it's greed and that he's treating our supporters with contempt. I'm disappointed that he changed his mind with the original agreement but he is trying to maximise his earnings and I can accept that. Until it's confirmed that he is leaving the club, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

[LostDoggy]

Another rumour i've heard withing any real basis i think.
Everitt to Sydney for 22 and Hall. i wouldn't be happy with that

Wouldn't do this at all, given we can get Barry for next to nothing anyway.

And after reading Rockets comments today, i can't see Dre going anywhere.

[Doc26]

I understand what you are saying but I challenge the notion that it's greed and that he's treating our supporters with contempt. I'm disappointed that he changed his mind with the original agreement but he is trying to maximise his earnings and I can accept that. Until it's confirmed that he is leaving the club, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe we just have a philosophical difference which I can accept as seems the norm from my experience. In my career I've elected not to maximise my earning potential by walking away from the corporate world to put my effort (& expertise) into the not for profit sector where the returns are significant but not financial. With that said, 'contempt' maybe on the harsh side but more a reflection of my frustration with Brian's focus on dollar maximisation.

[GVGjr]

Maybe we just have a philosophical difference which I can accept as seems the norm from my experience. In my career I've elected not to maximise my earning potential by walking away from the corporate world to put my effort (& expertise) into the not for profit sector where the returns are significant but not financial. With that said, 'contempt' maybe on the harsh side but more a reflection of my frustration with Brian's focus on dollar maximisation.

It's his last big pay day so I can see why he wants to squeeze a bit more out of it.

Akermanis can take a pay cut in 2010 because he's been on huge money for a number of years and has solid earnings opportunities in the media now that will only get better once he retires. Lake probably hasn't been on great money and knows that he doesn't have the media options after he retires that the likes of Akermanis and Johnson do. This contract is very important to him and I hope we can resolve it soon.

[strebla]

Right on the money GVGjr what will Brian do in 4 years he doesn't seem the sort to coach he has bugger all media exposure let him do what needs to be done and just hope that he signs for us.

[bornadog]

It's his last big pay day so I can see why he wants to squeeze a bit more out of it.

Akermanis can take a pay cut in 2010 because he's been on huge money for a number of years and has solid earnings opportunities in the media now that will only get better once he retires. Lake probably hasn't been on great money and knows that he doesn't have the media options after he retires that the likes of Akermanis and Johnson do. This contract is very important to him and I hope we can resolve it soon.

When you look at what Davey is getting, I think Brian is under paid;)

[Rocco Jones]

When you look at what Davey is getting, I think Brian is under paid;)

$450k a year is being under paid when you consider he is an AA backman. He doesn't just shut down an opponent but also adds rebound. He is an extremely value player. Thing is, you don't have long term success paying your stars their (or close to) market value.

[Mantis]

$450k a year is being under paid when you consider he is an AA backman. He doesn't just shut down an opponent but also adds rebound. He is an extremely value player. Thing is, you don't have long term success paying your stars their (or close to) market value.

What sort of money do you think Scarlett would be on?

[Go_Dogs]

What sort of money do you think Scarlett would be on?

Less than at least Ablett, and probably/possibly Chapman, Stevie J, Ottens and a couple of others. Who knows though really.


I tend to agree with what you are saying here. Lake is a very good player, and worth a good pay cheque, but if paying him what he wants effects our ability to keep our young guns past next season, we need to tread carefully.

Boy, I just can't wait for this one to be resolved!

[Dancin' Douggy]

I can remember waiting with baited breath for Chris to resist the offer from Port Adelaide.
I can remember exactly where I was when the radio reported he was staying.
The point is it wasn't an instant decision by Chris and he and the club were obviously talking dollars etc.

Brian is just doing the same thing as Chris. He will sign, he will stay and we will all love him so could everyone just shut the %$#@#% up!

[Mofra]

He's on holidays now anyway so we wont hear anything for a few days.

[Mofra]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26152643-5012432,00.html


Sydney premiership player Amon Buchanan appears likely to exit the Swans by agreeing to be moved on next week.

Could he be a stop-gap small forward? Would likely be cheap & could be rolled into the Barry Hall trade.

[soupman]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26152643-5012432,00.html



Could he be a stop-gap small forward? Would likely be cheap & could be rolled into the Barry Hall trade.

You misunderstand. We want a good small forward.

[Rocco Jones]

What sort of money do you think Scarlett would be on?

Not sure but I am pretty sure it's well below market value. My point is that you can't have long term sucess paying your guns what they are worth.

[Mantis]

Not sure but I am pretty sure it's well below market value. My point is that you can't have long term sucess paying your guns what they are worth.

What is his (Scarlett's) market value?

What I am getting at with this questioning is that from reports Scarlett is the highest paid player at Geelong.

[EasternWest]

You misunderstand. We want a good small forward.

Ha ha ha ha ha

There's a reason he's leaving. Too fat, too slow. Soupaman is right.

[Rocco Jones]

What is his (Scarlett's) market value?

What I am getting at with this questioning is that from reports Scarlett is the highest paid player at Geelong.

Interesting. If the Dogs were playing the Cats, the player I would want out the most is Scarlett.

Market value is going to be altered significantly but what GC can offer but I would assume Scarlett would have little difficulty in getting $600k+ in the open market, could get a fair bit more. I guess it's all relative to what the highest bidder is willing to pay.

[LostDoggy]

What do you folks think of Brett Peake?
Seeing as he's declared his intent to head for Melbourne.
Nice finisher from 50 out.
Not afraid to run and carry.
I rate him, not sure that we need him, but he's pretty classy in my opinion.

[Rocco Jones]

What do you folks think of Brett Peake?
Seeing as he's declared his intent to head for Melbourne.
Nice finisher from 50 out.
Not afraid to run and carry.
I rate him, not sure that we need him, but he's pretty classy in my opinion.

I actually like Peake and suggested him on another thread but was shoot down.

One thing going against him is that he is already 26. I am not sure there is much development left in him and his output is pretty ordinary.

He does have great pace, the question mark is that his disposal can be poor.

[Hot_Doggies]

What do you folks think of Brett Peake?
Seeing as he's declared his intent to head for Melbourne.
Nice finisher from 50 out.
Not afraid to run and carry.
I rate him, not sure that we need him, but he's pretty classy in my opinion.



Seeing as he's declared his intent to head for Melbourne. =Eagles don't want him either

Nice finisher from 50 out. =sprays them everywhere off his shin

Not afraid to run and carry. =Not afraid to turn it over or let his man run loose or get the easy kicks)

I rate him, not sure that we need him, but he's pretty classy in my opinion =He rates himself highly too, seen his post goal celebrations?

Isn't he the same player as Jordy Mcmahon?

[Mofra]

What is his (Scarlett's) market value?

What I am getting at with this questioning is that from reports Scarlett is the highest paid player at Geelong.
Could be - a few years ago Darren Gasper was on $500k at the Tiges, and that was before the salary cap was increased.

[bornadog]

He's on holidays now anyway so we wont hear anything for a few days.

but, is his manager on holidays?

[LostDoggy]

There are two simple scenarios to this whole saga.

1 - Do we want a team that has several very good players who are being paid very good money and due to salary cap restrictions the club can only continue to enjoy moderate success because not everyone can be paid highly.

or

2 - We have team of very good players who collectively agree to be paid under market value so that the team can enjoy continued success and hopefully Grand Final appearances. (Similar to the current Geelong team and Brisbane in their successful period)

I dont think we can have both ... simple as that. If Brian gets paid big dollars, then Adam Cooney and Missy etc will demand similar when their contracts come up and we wont be able to pay all of them top money.

[Mofra]

but, is his manager on holidays?
Ricky O can't sign his contract for him

[LostDoggy]

Seeing as he's declared his intent to head for Melbourne. =Eagles don't want him either

Nice finisher from 50 out. =sprays them everywhere off his shin



14.4 for the season.
Must have put plenty out on the full.

[Doc26]

There are two simple scenarios to this whole saga.

1 - Do we want a team that has several very good players who are being paid very good money and due to salary cap restrictions the club can only continue to enjoy moderate success because not everyone can be paid highly.

or

2 - We have team of very good players who collectively agree to be paid under market value so that the team can enjoy continued success and hopefully Grand Final appearances. (Similar to the current Geelong team and Brisbane in their successful period)

I dont think we can have both ... simple as that. If Brian gets paid big dollars, then Adam Cooney and Missy etc will demand similar when their contracts come up and we wont be able to pay all of them top money.

#2 is ideal based on where we find ourselves currently although achieving it is far from simple it would seem.

There is also a #3 which hinges on effective list control but requires effective management over a prolonged period which is easier to say than implement. Arguably we are starting to feel the pain from non optimal list management over numerous years.

Although Melbourne currently find themselves in the inverse position to us they will find themselves in a similar position if they neglect to effectively forecast their TPP position 3 to 4 years out as they scoop up all the young talent on offer now.

[Mantis]

There is also a #3 which hinges on effective list control but requires effective management over a prolonged period which is easier to say than implement. Arguably we are starting to feel the pain from non optimal list management over numerous years.

If we had our time again what would/ could we have done differently with regards to list management?


Although Melbourne currently find themselves in the inverse position to us they will find themselves in a similar position if they neglect to effectively forecast their TPP position 3 to 4 years out as they scoop up all the young talent on offer now.

Which is why the reported $2.3mil for 4 years that is reportedly being paid to Davey is a fair dinkum joke.

[LostDoggy]

I heard James Fantasia on SEN earlier this morning. They asked him about Brian Lake. He said that even though he hasn't signed as yet, he hasn't mentioned leaving the Dogs either. He did point out that a new baby in the house can be very time consuming & tiring, so they're giving him some time.

Also re. Barry Hall - he said that the Dogs are confident a deal will be worked out this week. Failing that Barry will go into the pre season draft, and they are confident of picking him up there as there doesn't seem to be interest from other clubs.

[LostDoggy]

If we had our time again what would/ could we have done differently with regards to list management?



Which is why the reported $2.3mil for 4 years that is reportedly being paid to Davey is a fair dinkum joke.

Just another sign of how desperate coaches towards the end of their contracts can really bugger up the future of a club with short-term measures.

I, for one, like the succession planning model (made popular by Collingwood) because it emphasises the long-term view, and doesn't allow a desperate coach to mortgage future stability for a few results.

ps. theoretically, a board should be able to block stupid contract offers, but I don't think Melbourne's is in the best shape at the moment.

[soupman]

What do you folks think of Brett Peake?
Seeing as he's declared his intent to head for Melbourne.
Nice finisher from 50 out.
Not afraid to run and carry.
I rate him, not sure that we need him, but he's pretty classy in my opinion.

Speaking to a Freo supporting mate he reckons he's a good player but despite often going for runs with the footy he reckons his general disposal is pretty hit and miss. I don't want him, he'd only be holding back an Easton Wood or the like.

[LostDoggy]

Speaking to a Freo supporting mate he reckons he's a good player but despite often going for runs with the footy he reckons his general disposal is pretty hit and miss. I don't want him, he'd only be holding back an Easton Wood or the like.

Yeah as I said, don't think we need him, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him join a new club next year and flourish.
I would certainly like to see our young brigade get more game time this year.

[Mofra]

Speaking to a Freo supporting mate he reckons he's a good player but despite often going for runs with the footy he reckons his general disposal is pretty hit and miss. I don't want him, he'd only be holding back an Easton Wood or the like.
I don't think he's any (if at all) better than Easton Wood anyway; admittedly I'm biased ;)

[Doc26]

If we had our time again what would/ could we have done differently with regards to list management?



Which is why the reported $2.3mil for 4 years that is reportedly being paid to Davey is a fair dinkum joke.

Mantis, without knowing the intricacies of all our player deals over the last 3-4 years it is difficult to provide fair commentary on. Is undoubtedly an incredibly difficult task to manage as variables are constantly thrown in. Who wants to let go of their star veterans that are generally holding there own eg Westy, Granty or now Johhno / Aker or even Eagle or potential star performers not yet cutting it eg Andrejs, Wil or dare I say it even Griff who I'm a fan of (yes a great finals series but questions were out there) whilst also having to balance whether they load up now or hold for later based on where the 'window' of opportunity is perceived to be at. Then there is also the question of what else is available to fill an obligated trade.

Brian was/is being remunerated way under his value which has caught us out somewhat as we haven't been able to sign him up beforehand. I was quite surprised at the time I heard just how little he was being remunerated compared to market value. I have my players on the list that I would've explored aggressively opportunities to replenish whilst they may have/had some currency as a means of mitigating the current and looming predicament. We've gambled on going all out in the so called window which I can understand but there are consequences to this particularly if we don't take our current opportunity.

On the Melbourne front the system works against clubs that are currently poor performing by being obligated to pay the minimum TPP and is why Melbourne find themselves forking out $2.3m for Davey which is laughable but not really their fault particularly with McLean freeing up more of their TPP allocation.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Which is why the reported $2.3mil for 4 years that is reportedly being paid to Davey is a fair dinkum joke.

Melbourne are struggling to reach the minimum 92%.

Why wouoldn't Melbourne structure the contract so that he gets $1M this year, then $700K, then $300K & $300K?

[Mofra]

Melbourne are struggling to reach the minimum 92%.

Why wouoldn't Melbourne structure the contract so that he gets $1M this year, then $700K, then $300K & $300K?
They have. My source suggested that they were barely over 80% once McLean decided to move on, they only just made the 92.5% in 2009 and kids on their second contract have them very much front-loaded.

I'd be surprised if Davey's wasn't front-loaded in a manner similar to your suggestion. The Grimes & Mortons look like they could develop into A-Grade material and they will be rewarded handsomely for it in time.

[Rocco Jones]

Why wouoldn't Melbourne structure the contract so that he gets $1M this year, then $700K, then $300K & $300K?

Question for the accountants but would that screw Davey tax wise? Or would it benefit him through being able to invest it and the like?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26152643-5012432,00.html



Could he be a stop-gap small forward? Would likely be cheap & could be rolled into the Barry Hall trade.

Despite some opinions, Buchanan might be able to fill some sort of role. He was very good in 05-06 with his tackling, one percenters and contested ball. Played somewhat of a 'small' Mitch Hahn role in that he would create opportunities through sheer bustling work rate. He's obviously since declined a fair bit, but I wouldn't mind looking at him. If Eade believed he could get Amon to return to form + get him cheaply, I'd do definitely do it.

His defensive pressure would be handy in our forward half. What's his age?

[Julie C]

Question for the accountants but would that screw Davey tax wise? Or would it benefit him through being able to invest it and the like?
It would screw Davey tax wise. But how many players & managers look past the initial $$$$.

[LostDoggy]

Ive just been having a good old debate with a friend..
He said that everitt doesnt like being 'pushed' around by eade and wants a trade..
Has anyone else heard anything like this?
Personally, i dont really believe it, but it is plausable!

[AndrewP6]

Despite some opinions, Buchanan might be able to fill some sort of role.

His defensive pressure would be handy in our forward half. What's his age?

27 next week.

[Remi Moses]

Ive just been having a good old debate with a friend..
He said that everitt doesnt like being 'pushed' around by eade and wants a trade..
Has anyone else heard anything like this?
Personally, i dont really believe it, but it is plausable!

After observing Everitt at williamstown with his casual approach he looks like a player who needs to be ''pushed''.

[The Coon Dog]

After observing Everitt at williamstown with his casual approach he looks like a player who needs to be ''pushed''.

I keep hearing 'he lacks intensity'.

[Remi Moses]

Aaron Davey getting 2.3 for 4 years! Way way over the odds for a player who gets cheap kicks off the back 50 ATM. :confused:

[GVGjr]

I keep hearing 'he lacks intensity'.

Yep, and people were saying that before he was drafted. Sounds like we still have the same player we drafted but just haven't improved him.

[mjp]

I rate him, not sure that we need him, but he's pretty classy in my opinion.


He is the single worst footballer in the league.

NO.

[LostDoggy]

He is the single worst footballer in the league.

NO.

I remember his dad Brian Peake coming over to Geelong with a big reputation and not amounting to much.

[1eyedog]

I remember his dad Brian Peake coming over to Geelong with a big reputation and not amounting to much.

Agreed but he never wanted to leave Western Australia in the first place.

[mjp]

I remember his dad Brian Peake coming over to Geelong with a big reputation and not amounting to much.

Brian Peake was an absolute super-star who waited about 7 years too long to head to the VFL. Ended up playing more than 400 senior games though and you don't do that if you aren't any good.

Those who rate Brett Peake though must just watch the highlights. Speaking as someone who has been to every Fremantle home game in the last two years he is just no good...every time he gets the ball, the other team get it next. Lacks composure under pressure and has average ==> poor kicking skills.

[Desipura]

In regards to next weeks trade period, I just hope we have not put all our energies into getting Hall & re-signing Lake without addressing our lack of depth down back and to a lesser extent a small forward if one becomes available.
Lake naturally is our number 1 priority followed by Hall. Lets not just stop there in regards to adding players who may be able to address our deficiencies.
This trade period appears to be a big one, I hope we are active.

[The Coon Dog]

This trade period appears to be an big one, I hope we are active.

I very much doubt we will. We seem very close to the salary cap, so unless we offload players, I can't see us being too active.

[Rocco Jones]

I very much doubt we will. We seem very close to the salary cap, so unless we offload players, I can't see us being too active.

No trades, keeping Lake and getting Hall in the PSD would suit me just fine.

[Sockeye Salmon]

No trades, keeping Lake and getting Hall in the PSD would suit me just fine.

I'm with you, Rocco.

Trading is the work of the devil.

[Hot_Doggies]

He is the single worst footballer in the league.

NO.

Couldn't agree more MJP.

That wasn't my quote you pasted.

[LostDoggy]

From AFL.com



Seen deep in conversation during the kicking test were footy managers from Carlton and the Western Bulldogs, Steven Icke and James Fantasia. Soon after, Rodney Eade was telling the gathered media that the Dogs weren't interested in Brendan Fevola.

[The Boy From Brasil]

No trades, keeping Lake and getting Hall in the PSD would suit me just fine.

Are you confident if that if BBB went into the PSD, he would fall all the way down to us without any other club picking him up?

[Rocco Jones]

Are you confident if that if BBB went into the PSD, he would fall all the way down to us without any other club picking him up?

At the moment I am. I think the Blues trading Fev is largely a hoax but even if they trade him, they will probably look for a KP replacement as part of the trade. Also, trading Fev because of his attitude and bringing in Hall might not be a great PR move (which is at last partially why they would trade Fev).

Who else would be interested in Hall? I think the Pies have enough decent tall forward options. Adelaide have Tippet and multiple options to goal. The fact that Hall has stated he wants to play for us will obviously put sides off as well.

[The Boy From Brasil]

Who else would be interested in Hall?

Not sure. There may be no one at the moment. But it is a risk letting him fall into the PSD, no matter how small the risk. If we could get him as a trade(third round or fourth round & GOK) then we take the risk out of the equation with little damage to us.

Remember there is a fair bit of time between the end of the trade week and the PSD. Plenty of time for clubs to get tempted by a big power forward such as BBB sitting there available to be picked up for nothing.

[Rocco Jones]

Not sure. There may be no one at the moment. But it is a risk letting him fall into the PSD, no matter how small the risk. If we could get him as a trade(third round or fourth round & GOK) then we take the risk out of the equation with little damage to us.

Remember there is a fair bit of time between the end of the trade week and the PSD. Plenty of time for clubs to get tempted by a big power forward such as BBB sitting there available to be picked up for nothing.

I am sure we want to avoid the risk but we both sides are at least bluffing that they are OK with him going into the PSD. The issue with pick 63 is whether or not the Swans would even use it. Even if they do, it could end up just being an upgrade from 70 or so.

[Topdog]

We should get Hall to nominate for the national draft if we are confident of getting him.

[The Boy From Brasil]

I am sure we want to avoid the risk but we both sides are at least bluffing that they are OK with him going into the PSD. The issue with pick 63 is whether or not the Swans would even use it. Even if they do, it could end up just being an upgrade from 70 or so.

That is true. We have to give them something that they can use otherwise there is no value for them to do the trade.

I guess where I am coming from is that I would be nervous if he went into the PSD. Especially when he is what we really need as far as forward structure, at least short term. Are we prepared to take the risk with him going into the PSD?

[Rocco Jones]

We should get Hall to nominate for the national draft if we are confident of getting him.

I think that would increase the risk. Most clubs have totally avoided the PSD, with their lists being complete and their salary cap at near 100%. Only 6 clubs participated in last season's PSD and 7 and 8 clubs in the respective two previous years.

The last PSD was entirely made up of sides that missed out on the 8 and the previous PSD only featured 1 side that made the finals. I can't see a side that does not see itself as a contender in the short-term going after Hall.

[Topdog]

Very good point Rocco something I never even thought about.

[Doc26]

If it gets late in trade week and a Hall deal appears distant I'm suspecting a round 3 pick if not a round 2 will get put on the table due to our imperative for a tall fwd. The Swans would be aware of this. A big risk sending Hall into the PSD when our selection is so deep. I understand you can, but can someone confirm if we can trade for a PSD selection ?

[Bulldog Joe]

Question for the accountants but would that screw Davey tax wise? Or would it benefit him through being able to invest it and the like?

Once you are over $150k the tax rate is the same for everything else. So there is no additional tax issue and if he invests wisely he can create additional income from there for later years.

[Rocco Jones]

If it gets late in trade week and a Hall deal appears distant I'm suspecting a round 3 pick if not a round 2 will get put on the table due to our imperative for a tall fwd. The Swans would be aware of this. A big risk sending Hall into the PSD when our selection is so deep. I understand you can, but can someone confirm if we can trade for a PSD selection ?

I can't see a straight swap for our 2nd round pick happening (I would be very annoyed if it did). If we are going to compromise, I think it might involve an exchange of picks, with us upgrading a pick of theirs. Something like pick 47 and 63 for 53 and Hall. A potential issue would be that the Swans are all done with draft picks when it comes to pick 63.

[G-Mo77]

I understand you can, but can someone confirm if we can trade for a PSD selection ?

No...

[Doc26]

I can't see a straight swap for our 2nd round pick happening (I would be very annoyed if it did). If we are going to compromise, I think it might involve an exchange of picks, with us upgrading a pick of theirs. Something like pick 47 and 63 for 53 and Hall. A potential issue would be that the Swans are all done with draft picks when it comes to pick 63.

You're right there are possibly more creative options other than a Round 2 selection but IF there were two options only.

1. Give up Round 2 selection

or

2. Risk Hall and let go through to PSD

The Swans would be weighing up this issue by calling our bluff.

[Topdog]

and we would call their bluff. A round 2 selection for Hall is stupid.

[Doc26]

and we would call their bluff. A round 2 selection for Hall is stupid.

Which is where negotiations are at right now. A game of bluff with the Dogs undoubtedly stating a round 2 selection although deep is still ridiculous for a 34 year old with anger management issues. For me, I'd walk away from the table if it meant having to give up a round 2 as being requested by the Swans. Doesn't help the current negotiation though.

[Topdog]

It helps. Sydney kicked him out of their club and will lose him for nothing. I'm ok with giving away our 3rd pick for him but there is no way we will give up 2nd and Sydney know it. They just want to look like they are doing their all.

[AndrewP6]

Which is where negotiations are at right now. A game of bluff with the Dogs undoubtedly stating a round 2 selection although deep is still ridiculous for a 34 year old with anger management issues. For me, I'd walk away from the table if it meant having to give up a round 2 as being requested by the Swans. Doesn't help the current negotiation though.

Sorry to split hairs, but Bazza is 33 in Feb. :)

[Jasper]

Any reason why we can't overpay for Hall in terms of picks/players and get Syd to pay part of Hall's salary, that way freeing up some cash for Lake?

[The Coon Dog]

Any reason why we can't overpay for Hall in terms of picks/players and get Syd to pay part of Hall's salary, that way freeing up some cash for Lake?

Because his contract with Sydney expires on 31 October.

[Jasper]

Because his contract with Sydney expires on 31 October.

OK so that only works if the player has an existing contract elsewhere, like say Jolly or
Fev?

[The Coon Dog]

OK so that only works if the player has an existing contract elsewhere, like say Jolly or Fev?

Yes, say a player has 2 years remaining on a contract worth $400K per season.

His existing club may trade him & the new club only pays him $300K per season, meaning his old club stumps up the balance.

[boydogs]

Melbourne are struggling to reach the minimum 92%.
Why wouoldn't Melbourne structure the contract so that he gets $1M this year, then $700K, then $300K & $300K?


Question for the accountants but would that screw Davey tax wise? Or would it benefit him through being able to invest it and the like?


Once you are over $150k the tax rate is the same for everything else. So there is no additional tax issue and if he invests wisely he can create additional income from there for later years.

Are there any rules regarding paying players huge amounts early/late in a contract? Davey and Melbourne would both probably be thinking the more paid in 2010 the better, so that Melbourne do not have to overpay other players, and Davey can get the money now to invest

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Any interest for the Lions trio?

Macdonald, Hooper and Harding?

Not sure what Macdonald would cost but seems OK. Not a fan of Hooper or Harding though.

[Hotdog60]

MacDonald wouldn't be bad if he could stay fit but he would be slower than Hudson and nowhere as good at ground level. He would end up as the new Skipper but better at AFL level.
Wouldn't touch Hooper, discipline problems off field and goes walkabout when he feels like it, great potential on field but lazy off field.
Harding would be the pick out of the trio but he comes into the Gia type player which we already have a couple of.

[Mantis]

MacDonald wouldn't be bad if he could stay fit but he would be slower than Hudson and nowhere as good at ground level. He would end up as the new Skipper but better at AFL level.

Beau retired a few years back. Up for trade is Joel MacDonald who if you don't know plays in defence as a HB.

[Hotdog60]

Oops! That makes me look stupid, wrong Macdonald. I would have been closer if I had said Ronald :)
Ok the other Macdonald (Joel), he comes in the Morris, Shaggy type do we need another, could be handy maybe not. Half back flank you could blood a couple of our young guys and doesn't Dre play that position.
So no dealings from the Lions.

[LostDoggy]

So of course, the silly season has started -- the mail this morning all over SEN is:

Lake to Carlton
Fev and a second round pick to the Dogs
Second round pick on-traded for Bazza,

So, Fev, BBBBB and Aker in the same forwardline. Lots of concerns, but it has a certain attraction (doesn't it? After all, didn't Boydy just say that we're not here to win friends -- we're here to win premierships?)

[Desipura]

So of course, the silly season has started -- the mail this morning all over SEN is:

Lake to Carlton
Fev and a second round pick to the Dogs
Second round pick on-traded for Bazza,

So, Fev, BBBBB and Aker in the same forwardline. Lots of concerns, but it has a certain attraction (doesn't it? After all, didn't Boydy just say that we're not here to win friends -- we're here to win premierships?)
Pretty hard to win a premiership with one of the best fullbacks not in the side, regardless of Fev & BBBBB in our forwardline.

[LostDoggy]

So of course, the silly season has started -- the mail this morning all over SEN is:

Lake to Carlton
Fev and a second round pick to the Dogs
Second round pick on-traded for Bazza,

So, Fev, BBBBB and Aker in the same forwardline. Lots of concerns, but it has a certain attraction (doesn't it? After all, didn't Boydy just say that we're not here to win friends -- we're here to win premierships?)

Is the mail by some one that called in? Most likely a Blues or Swans fan.
Sorry No offence Lantern, its not even worth writing it here.

[LostDoggy]

Is the mail by some one that called in? Most likely a Blues or Swans fan.
Sorry No offence Lantern, its not even worth writing it here.

Don't shoot the messenger! ;)

It was Andrew Maher who floated it, based on a conversation he had with someone in Bulldogs heirarchy with regards to the B.Hall deal that is at an impasse.

Maybe someone in the Dogs is just using it as a smokescreen to get the Hall deal done.

[chef]

First trade done. Gibson and pick 69 for pick 25 and 41 from the Hawks.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/blogarticle/tabid/8123/newsid/85709/default.aspx

[Topdog]

Terrible trade for North.

[chef]

Terrible trade for North.

I thought they would have played hard ball to get a better deal.

[Ozza]

Terrible trade for North.

I'm not so sure about that. Gibson is just a workman like defender and who isn't particularly tall. I don't really rate him much to be honest. Hawthorn have given away two good picks. I think North would be very happy with that deal.

[BulldogBelle]

What happened to pick #9 or PSD? North bluff exposed.

[Go_Dogs]

I thought they would have played hard ball to get a better deal.

They would be planning on using their first round for Burgoyne, so it would have been off-limits.

Probably not a great result for North, but they do need to turn their list over and another pick in the top 25 should secure them a good young player.

[Cyberdoggie]

An interesting trade. Hawthorn obviously desperate for a defender.

Not sure i would of paid that much for Josh Gibson but they have their man, and now they can focus on Burgoyne. Looks like the Hawks are prepared to give up just about all their picks to secure a defender and a classy midfielder. Perhaps they should focus on getting a ruckman.

[chef]

Here's the AFL Trade Tracker for anyone interested.

http://www.afl.com.au/trade%20tracker/tabid/10490/default.aspx

[ledge]

COMPLEX three team deal in the works. Swan Amon Buchanan and Eagle Brent Staker go to Brisbane, Lion Bradd Dalzeill to West Coast and Eagles ruckman Mark Seaby ends up at Sydney.

[bornadog]

Swans and Dogs currently in discussion.

Fantasia has indicated a meeting is scheduled with Lakes Manager tonight.