Player attitudes

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Perhaps a thread that can be best answered by Mike.

A lot is discussed about player attitudes, particularly when drafting a player. Players often slip down the order because clubs have concerns over their personality and attitude to football. Sometimes it's legit, sometimes it's a load of tripe. Franklin is one that springs to mind. However, I wanted to discuss more so the attitudes of players once they've arrived at your club.

Take a look at Everitt. He's got undeniable talent which is widely recognised, but at the same time, he's got plenty of question marks hanging over his head. There's no doubt the club shopped Andrejs around for a pick under 20 - my question is - how will Everitt deal with that? If he's an introvert, it might send him backwards. In some cases it fires a proverbial rocket under players (McIntosh from North) but I have no doubt it has a reverse effect too.

Barry Hall might an interesting case. I've heard him speak several times on not wanting to end his football career on a sour note. It sounds as though he's got something to prove. It might have sparked 'fire in the belly' to really perform once again.

Reid, Wood and Grant are topics to be raised too. Reid impressed late in the season and probably would have played finals if he didn't get injured. Wood has improved considerably since he arrived at the club two years ago. How does the club make sure their attitude to improving stays on the right track? Too often young players appear to go wondering after their first year or two. Grant was apparently very confident in himself prior to coming to the club but after his first game (v Carlton) it was said he was a little down on himself because he realized how far off he is. Unfortunately, Grant ended the season in Williamstown reserves.

Some players are driven beyond belief to succeed (Boyd, Cross, Harbrow, Ward) whilst others might need to be assisted carefully (Everitt, Grant). It all comes back to player development but how do you think the situations of the above players (and others not mentioned) will be handled?

Are you confident we can adapt to the different attitudes? Can we help turn players around? (IE. Boumann)

[Dry Rot]

Interesting thread.

My first thought was some of Wisbey's (sp?) draft profiles, in which he often flagged a "lack of intensity" about some potential draft picks.

We haven't had massive luck with recent early draft picks, with Power, Walsh and McMahon all departing and now Everitt being shopped around. Most them lacked "intensity" and also arguably you could say the same about promising players like Hill and Grant.

My best guess is that you can't teach this, and the next best step is to get a hard man like the new Willi coach to have a go at them.

Harbrow was a rookie and is short and light bodied,but in terms of heart he stands head and shoulders above more than a few of our players.

I suppose philosophically it comes back to one of the age old questions about what is innate and what can be learned. Some would argue that intensity and being a genuine forward is simply innate.

[boydogs]

Can we help turn players around? (IE. Boumann)

What's wrong with Boumann?

[hujsh]

What's wrong with Boumann?

Nothing now but he's an example of us improving a player with a bad attitude.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What's wrong with Boumann?

Nothing now, but when he first arrived at the club he had a few issues. Nothing serious, just minor things like punctuality, staying out after curfew in Darwin (wasn't even drinking) and a general lazy attitude.

Rocket ended up telling him everything started half hour earlier than it really did and Johnno and Gia straightened him out (Including Johnno grabbing him by the throat against the lockers and screaming at him "you ****ing *** me!')

[vho]

Nothing now, but when he first arrived at the club he had a few issues. Nothing serious, just minor things like punctuality, staying out after curfew in Darwin (wasn't even drinking) and a general lazy attitude.

Rocket ended up telling him everything started half hour earlier than it really did and Johnno and Gia straightened him out (Including Johnno grabbing him by the throat against the lockers and screaming at him "you ****ing *** me!')

in regards to? care to spill the beans? :D

[Bulldog Joe]

Attitudes can be changed. There is a myriad of stories in business that attest to that.

Unfortunately the change needs to come from within the individual. All the coaching and associated staff, including senior players, can do is highlight what is needed and expose the younger players to the success stories.

When and if the penny drops the attitude will change.

However, there is more than attitude, as ability is still required. Attitude is the determinant that allows a player to make the most of the ability they possess.

Tony Liberatore is one of the outstanding examples and of current players you would highlight Boyd particularly with Harbrow the best example in the younger brigade at this point.

[ledge]

Some of it can be changed but all people have different natures you cant change. Do the club look at the nature, personality, mind strength and desire of them all?

I have heard Mark Williams scares the bejeebers out of draft kids when he meets them to get a feel on the strength of them, comes across arrogant but in the end it is a very important part of drafting with finding the Psych of players I suppose.

I have no idea how our club interviews potential draftees but if we are getting kids with heaps of talent but not the right attitude or psych to play at this standard its something we need to look at.

[ledge]

I will add that as a club though we do seem to be very wary of picking up players with a major attitude problem or big heads that might be a major problem.

Morals and respect of the club is first rate as far as that is concerned.

I have a lot of pride in this club looking at Hall and not Fev in this way, a big headed dickhead can destroy a club from the inside with attitude and leading young players astray.

Another reason this club is the best!

[LostDoggy]

Nothing now, but when he first arrived at the club he had a few issues. Nothing serious, just minor things like punctuality, staying out after curfew in Darwin (wasn't even drinking) and a general lazy attitude.

Rocket ended up telling him everything started half hour earlier than it really did and Johnno and Gia straightened him out (Including Johnno grabbing him by the throat against the lockers and screaming at him "you ****ing *** me!')

You might have the wrong player there!!

[Twodogs]

[/B]

You might have the wrong player there!!


Nup right player. Johnno's job as captain means that he has had to pull more than one player in front of the rest of the group and tell them how they are letting everyone else down with their attitude.

[mjp]

Well...I dont think you can teach intensity at the contest.

What you can do - and what happens as players mature - is that they become more determined in their approach which generally results in an improved attitude towards everything 'outside the white lines'. The main things that you usually see is improved focus and commitment to the conditioning program.

The question is does this change the players fundamental nature and approach to the game when the ball is bounced? Well, not always. You might get a bit more strength over the footy/defensive pressure that comes with the confidence brought by the changes in body shape (associated with improved focus at training), but you wont turn a field mouse into a lion.

The further issue is that once a player has had his cards marked, this negative perception of them clouds the judgment of everyone around them...all of a sudden they all forget what they liked about the player in the first place, and the continued focus on weaknesses oftentimes causes the player to forget what they were good at doing as well.

[KT31]

Nup right player. Johnno's job as captain means that he has had to pull more than one player in front of the rest of the group and tell them how they are letting everyone else down with their attitude.

Would be hard to take serious if he was grinning.:D

Although the look on his face giving the 3/4 time speech against the Lions would pull you in line.

[LostDoggy]

Nup right player. Johnno's job as captain means that he has had to pull more than one player in front of the rest of the group and tell them how they are letting everyone else down with their attitude.

I think you might find that it was O'Keefe that was confronted by Johno and Gia hence his delistment! We all know Boumann had a few minor issues early on last year.

[LostDoggy]

I have heard Mark Williams scares the bejeebers out of draft kids when he meets them to get a feel on the strength of them, comes across arrogant but in the end it is a very important part of drafting with finding the Psych of players I suppose.
.

Is this why no one wants to go to Port? (Apart from the fact that it's a hole..)

[LostDoggy]

The further issue is that once a player has had his cards marked, this negative perception of them clouds the judgment of everyone around them...all of a sudden they all forget what they liked about the player in the first place, and the continued focus on weaknesses oftentimes causes the player to forget what they were good at doing as well.


Great post mjp. Self-fulfilling prophecies and all that.

We're too quick to pigeon-hole in this business, I think. The kids coming into the system are 17, 18 or so, and require a heck a lot of teaching, both in skills and maturity. I would blame the club as much as the player if they are failing to develop them properly -- I don't know too many kids who are the same going into uni as when they come out (if they have good teachers). Of course you have the incorrigible ones, but even then, skillful teachers can turn around some of the worst cases.

What makes coaches like Lethal, or Roos, or Mark Thompson, (or Alex Ferguson) great are not necessarily any great tactical acumen, but the ability to take a bunch of kids and develop them into world-beaters. Terry Wallace, for all his trickery and innovation, never had that skill.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Perhaps a thread that can be best answered by Mike.

A lot is discussed about player attitudes, particularly when drafting a player. Players often slip down the order because clubs have concerns over their personality and attitude to football. Sometimes it's legit, sometimes it's a load of tripe. Franklin is one that springs to mind. However, I wanted to discuss more so the attitudes of players once they've arrived at your club.

Take a look at Everitt. He's got undeniable talent which is widely recognised, but at the same time, he's got plenty of question marks hanging over his head. There's no doubt the club shopped Andrejs around for a pick under 20 - my question is - how will Everitt deal with that? If he's an introvert, it might send him backwards. In some cases it fires a proverbial rocket under players (McIntosh from North) but I have no doubt it has a reverse effect too.

Barry Hall might an interesting case. I've heard him speak several times on not wanting to end his football career on a sour note. It sounds as though he's got something to prove. It might have sparked 'fire in the belly' to really perform once again.

Reid, Wood and Grant are topics to be raised too. Reid impressed late in the season and probably would have played finals if he didn't get injured. Wood has improved considerably since he arrived at the club two years ago. How does the club make sure their attitude to improving stays on the right track? Too often young players appear to go wondering after their first year or two. Grant was apparently very confident in himself prior to coming to the club but after his first game (v Carlton) it was said he was a little down on himself because he realized how far off he is. Unfortunately, Grant ended the season in Williamstown reserves.

Some players are driven beyond belief to succeed (Boyd, Cross, Harbrow, Ward) whilst others might need to be assisted carefully (Everitt, Grant). It all comes back to player development but how do you think the situations of the above players (and others not mentioned) will be handled?

Are you confident we can adapt to the different attitudes? Can we help turn players around? (IE. Boumann)
Everitt is an interesting case. Showed enough in 2007 to be given the famous No. 3. Form has slipped in the past two years apart from our final home and away against Collingwood, where he was very unlucky to be dropped. You will find that him being offered as a trade was more about limitations on our salary cap rather than a draft pick under 20.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Perhaps a thread that can be best answered by Mike.

A lot is discussed about player attitudes, particularly when drafting a player. Players often slip down the order because clubs have concerns over their personality and attitude to football. Sometimes it's legit, sometimes it's a load of tripe. Franklin is one that springs to mind. However, I wanted to discuss more so the attitudes of players once they've arrived at your club.

Take a look at Everitt. He's got undeniable talent which is widely recognised, but at the same time, he's got plenty of question marks hanging over his head. There's no doubt the club shopped Andrejs around for a pick under 20 - my question is - how will Everitt deal with that? If he's an introvert, it might send him backwards. In some cases it fires a proverbial rocket under players (McIntosh from North) but I have no doubt it has a reverse effect too.

Barry Hall might an interesting case. I've heard him speak several times on not wanting to end his football career on a sour note. It sounds as though he's got something to prove. It might have sparked 'fire in the belly' to really perform once again.

Reid, Wood and Grant are topics to be raised too. Reid impressed late in the season and probably would have played finals if he didn't get injured. Wood has improved considerably since he arrived at the club two years ago. How does the club make sure their attitude to improving stays on the right track? Too often young players appear to go wondering after their first year or two. Grant was apparently very confident in himself prior to coming to the club but after his first game (v Carlton) it was said he was a little down on himself because he realized how far off he is. Unfortunately, Grant ended the season in Williamstown reserves.

Some players are driven beyond belief to succeed (Boyd, Cross, Harbrow, Ward) whilst others might need to be assisted carefully (Everitt, Grant). It all comes back to player development but how do you think the situations of the above players (and others not mentioned) will be handled?

Are you confident we can adapt to the different attitudes? Can we help turn players around? (IE. Boumann)

Believe Everitt was offered as a trade because of tight restrictions in our salary cap.
Showed great promise in Season 2007 before going off the radar in the past two years until a very good final match against Collingwood. Unlucky not to play at least in one of the three finals. Looks better suited to the wing than in defence. Boumann impresses as a possible key defender and would appear to have more skill than Williams. It will be interesting to see how both Roughhead and Boumann adavance in 2010.

[EasternWest]

Everitt is an interesting case. Showed enough in 2007 to be given the famous No. 3. Form has slipped in the past two years apart from our final home and away against Collingwood, where he was very unlucky to be dropped. You will find that him being offered as a trade was more about limitations on our salary cap rather than a draft pick under 20.

Unlucky on form. But he was only covering the injured ruckmen. He knew the deal.

Looking for a ripper year from him next year, hopefully a bit of time HBF and wing.