Cordy - primarily a forward or ruck?

[Mofra]

Howdy fellow Woofers,

As we wont have much discussion until national draft day, I'm wondering where people see the future of young Ayce.

Obviously he is a beanpole so wont be a regular for some time, however whilst being drafted as a ruckman, his HF line work at Willy was fairly impressive (some have likened him to a tall Robert Murphy).

I'm just owndering if the general consensus is that he will still be a ruckman resting forward once developed, or whether he will buck the trend and find himself developed as a permanent forward? His agility could be quite handy as a forward, and he seems to time his leads well as a HF, which is something that is very difficult to teach.

[mighty_west]

Cordy & Roughead will compliment each other extremely well, in cricketing terms, both all rounders, who will ruck & play forward, unlike alot of ruckmen who can tap the ball, but have nothing else to fall back on.

Cordy to me, will be a forward / ruck all rounder whilst Roughy will be a ruck / forward all rounder.

From the limited times i have seen him play, he kind if reminds me of a young Corey McKernan, and for most of that time, he has lined up around the half forward line.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I asked the man himself at a club fundraiser during the year. He says he's modelled himself after Dean Cox and that's who he wants to emulate.

[mighty_west]

I asked the man himself at a club fundraiser during the year. He says he's modelled himself after Dean Cox and that's who he wants to emulate.

A bit like every 17 year old over 190cm modelling themselves after Saint Nick? ;)

[Scorlibo]

I asked the man himself at a club fundraiser during the year. He says he's modelled himself after Dean Cox and that's who he wants to emulate.

I've also heard him say this, but I still think that he will primarily be a forward, with Roughead the main ruck. The fact that he's still trying to emulate Dean Cox (as with when he was drafted) would indicate that the club is in agreeance with this, and has not changed his outlook to suit team needs.

[chef]

I hope he ends up a Tippett style tall forward target.

[Go_Dogs]

I've also heard him say this, but I still think that he will primarily be a forward, with Roughead the main ruck.

I tend to hope the opposite occurs. Roughead to me, is more like a Tippett style player, a real power athlete. Cordy, the more agile and mobile of the pair. I see Roughead being more suited to a key forward role and can play ruck, and Ayce doing it the other way around.

Roughead will need to work on his marking a lot to get to where Tippett is, but like Tippett could play his first year or two through the ruck, resting forward before developing into a full time forward.

With Cordy's athletic ability, he could be like a 205cm, 4th midfielder, which would be fantastic for us.

[chef]

I tend to hope the opposite occurs. Roughead to me, is more like a Tippett style player, a real power athlete. Cordy, the more agile and mobile of the pair. I see Roughead being more suited to a key forward role and can play ruck, and Ayce doing it the other way around.

Roughead will need to work on his marking a lot to get to where Tippett is, but like Tippett could play his first year or two through the ruck, resting forward before developing into a full time forward.

With Cordy's athletic ability, he could be like a 205cm, 4th midfielder, which would be fantastic for us.

Tippett has always had the ability to mark the ball(thanks to a basketball background, Cordy shares this). Hopefully Roughead turns out a better forward than Minson has.

[Mofra]

Hopefully Roughead turns out a better forward than Minson has.
He did take a big grab in the finals with Willy, so there is hope.

[Go_Dogs]

Tippett has always had the ability to mark the ball(thanks to a basketball background, Cordy shares this). Hopefully Roughead turns out a better forward than Minson has.

Not sure I can agree with that. Living in Adelaide I see almost every Crows game, so have seen just about every game he's played since he debuted, and imo he definitely did not always have the ability to mark, although he did have a good set of hands, and leap up at the ball.

The fact is the Crows gave good opportunities to all of Maric, Griffin and Tippett over the past few seasons in the forward line, and towards the end of 2008 it became clear that Tippett was the man who'd be able to do the most damage, and hence from 2009 he started to play permanent forward.

He had some basic tools, but was not a certainty for a KF role from the get go.

To me Roughead is very similar, he has good hands, not a bad leap, and is a powerful bloke. Roughead did also play at FF at TAC level, as well as ruck.

[GVGjr]

I asked the man himself at a club fundraiser during the year. He says he's modelled himself after Dean Cox and that's who he wants to emulate.

Young Reece Cordy used to get on BF and say the same things a couple of years back.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Not sure I can agree with that. Living in Adelaide I see almost every Crows game, so have seen just about every game he's played since he debuted, and imo he definitely did not always have the ability to mark, although he did have a good set of hands, and leap up at the ball.

The fact is the Crows gave good opportunities to all of Maric, Griffin and Tippett over the past few seasons in the forward line, and towards the end of 2008 it became clear that Tippett was the man who'd be able to do the most damage, and hence from 2009 he started to play permanent forward.

He had some basic tools, but was not a certainty for a KF role from the get go.

To me Roughead is very similar, he has good hands, not a bad leap, and is a powerful bloke. Roughead did also play at FF at TAC level, as well as ruck.

Agree re Tippet. It took him a couple of years to find his feet. He didn't look a certainty before 2009 but through getting plenty of opportunity, he begun to deliver.

Not sure Roughead can emulate Tippet though. I'd say Roughead is a footballer first, athlete second. Tippet's the other way around and is very agile for a guy his size. Roughy might be able to pinch hit but from what I've seen, he's definitely got that 'ruckman' posture/movement in his play. Plus - he's a very good tap ruckman. He's already strong, in 2 years time I have no doubt he'll develop into a quality player.

Not sure if Cordy will be a full time ruck though. Been able to play all his junior footy in the role because there wasn't a lot of size difference. He was always able to use his leap and mobility to advantage. In the AFL, I think he might struggle to have an impact in the ruck unless he can really put the weight on. For mine, Cordy looks like being very similar to Josh Fraser. If we manage him properly, he'll probably be a forward first and ruck second.

Certainly have two good young options in Roughead/Cordy. They should work in tandem well. Roughead will be the stronger, tap specialist who can pinch hit up forward. Cordy could be the dangerous roaming forward who can really put second string rucks to the sword with his mobility.

[BulldogBelle]

Either way, one of Cordy or Roughhead will be very soon be partnering Wil in the ruck after the retirement of Ben Hudson in a couple of years time. Given that senerio, I think Roughhead will slip into that role, and Ayce will play up forward. Very hard to match up on, 200+ cm and as agile at a 6 footer. Having watched Tippet this year, a bloke that tall who is a true full forward rather than a ruck that can play elsewhere, is worth his weight in gold. I hope Ayce can be that for us.

[lemmon]

Roughead looks like a seriously quality tap ruckmen to me so I'd love to see Cordy work on really becoming a forward first, ruckmen second. His size and mobility makes him a scary athletic prospect and if he can get some meat on his bones he'll trouble many a quality full back.

[Go_Dogs]

Thought I might re-visit this thread in regards to Roughead now that we've all had a chance to see a bit more of him.

We'll continue to learn more as the pre-season progresses, but based on what I saw on the weekend, I could certainly see him ending up playing a role in the F50. Much like Tippett he has a thirst for the contested ball, and I thought his goal-kicking action looked very good.

Still a fair way to go, but it looks like we've snared a good player.

[Greystache]

Thought I might re-visit this thread in regards to Roughead now that we've all had a chance to see a bit more of him.

We'll continue to learn more as the pre-season progresses, but based on what I saw on the weekend, I could certainly see him ending up playing a role in the F50. Much like Tippett he has a thirst for the contested ball, and I thought his goal-kicking action looked very good.

Still a fair way to go, but it looks like we've snared a good player.

I can see what you mean. Watching him play large patches in the forward line in the second half and the last quarter in particular, I thought he looked really exciting. I imagine we'll look to develop him primarily as a ruckman who can go forward, but in the end, we'll probably be dictated by his performances. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go either way.

[Go_Dogs]

but in the end, we'll probably be dictated by his performances. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go either way.

That's a great point.

I guess a lot depends on how other players develop around him too. Will Jones/Grant/Cordy be key forwards? Can Minson/Cordy form our future ruck combination? Either way, hopefully it'll be a good problem to have!

[Mofra]

Interesting point about team needs.

Minson will be around for some time yet, Jones looks a monty to become a tall forward, Grant can fill a role as a leading marking forward (probably FF/Pocket due to endurance) which means there will be room for a genuine 2nd tall forward.

[stefoid]

He'll need to put on another 10 kilos to play forward or 25 kilos to play ruck, so he'll start as a forward, and if he excels at that, he may never leave the forward line. he may never weigh enough to play ruck!

[Mantis]

He'll need to put on another 10 kilos to play forward or 25 kilos to play ruck, so he'll start as a forward, and if he excels at that, he may never leave the forward line. he may never weigh enough to play ruck!

How so?

Since Ayce was drafted he has put on somewhere between 15 and 18kg so is up around 92 to 95 kg now. If he puts in another 10kg over the next couple of years he will have the body to play in the ruck.

If he puts on another 25kg as suggested he will lose his mobility which is one of his great strengths.

[lemmon]

How so?

Since Ayce was drafted he has put on somewhere between 15 and 18kg so is up around 92 to 95 kg now. If he puts in another 10kg over the next couple of years he will have the body to play in the ruck.

If he puts on another 25kg as suggested he will lose his mobility which is one of his great strengths.

Agree with that, I think one of the big challenges for the strength and conditioning staff is deciding how much weight to put on young Ayce without compromising his agility and mobility.

[GVGjr]

How so?

Since Ayce was drafted he has put on somewhere between 15 and 18kg so is up around 92 to 95 kg now. If he puts in another 10kg over the next couple of years he will have the body to play in the ruck.

If he puts on another 25kg as suggested he will lose his mobility which is one of his great strengths.

I think his biggest strength is his flexibility and the ability to scoop the ball off the ground. I agree that if puts on too much weight it will inhibit him over the longer term.

I had a good look at him at training the other day and he still needs to add size and particularly strength to his frame and I'm guessing that the tricky part will be to do it in a manner that doesn't impact his agility and pace.

I'm not sure what the right recipe is for him but I'm keen to see how they build him up over the next 2 seasons.

Regarding him playing in the ruck or being better suited there, he isn't very broad across the shoulders and even if he adds the weight well he just doesn't appear to have a true ruckmans type physique. I'm still of the belief that he is a combination forward and ruckman more than having one true position.

[Old Dog]

I spoke to him just yesterday and he stated that he had put on 17kgs -not a bad effort- but still looks finly built.
I think he may have grown taller as well.

[stefoid]

How so?

Since Ayce was drafted he has put on somewhere between 15 and 18kg so is up around 92 to 95 kg now. If he puts in another 10kg over the next couple of years he will have the body to play in the ruck.

If he puts on another 25kg as suggested he will lose his mobility which is one of his great strengths.

great if true, but he is listed as 77 on the website, and he isnt exactly looking like a beast from the recent piccies I have seen. Put it this way, he could play forward at AFL level if he gets to the 90 kilos mark, and he could ruck at >100, give or take.

But consider he may never develop a ruck capable body. Dustin fletcher is a good example.

[mighty_west]

It will be interesting to see how things pan out with all these young talls coming through, for mine, Liam Jones is earmarked to be played more as a CHF, Jarrad Grant as a leading full forward, so where does that leave Cordy?

This day & age, big forwards don't really play in one set position these days, the likes of Barry Hall, Tredrea, Brown don;t just set themselves in one positon, more roam around the forward line, patrol pretty much that whole area, sometimes play deep in a more traditonal FF position, but also plays up the ground as well, even pushing past CHF on occasions.

A few times i have seen Cordy stand at CHF and either Grant or Matt Little deeper in the forward line, yet Liam Jones to me, seems like a more traditional CHF type.

From the first time i saw vision of Cordy, he just reminded me of a Corey McKernan type, just his movement, the way he went about it, so i guess he could play anywhere, probably in many ways a taller version of Everitt, and will obviously need to put on alot more size to even be considered playing in a key position, unless off course he can break off his opponent and use his mobility to advantage, we saw young Westoff in his first season, was as skinny as Cordy is, yet used his mobility extremely well, has tapered off somewhat since then, but showed a few signs in their NAB cup game last week.

Obviously Roughead seems the more traditional ruckman, yet can also push forward and take a good grab, Roughead is also a very good kick for goal which might be tempting to play him forward more often than not, and he can take a good grab above his head.

It's hard to say at this stage if Cordy will be seen more as a ruckman or forward until he does whack on some more size, i think things will be clearer this season playing in the Willy ones, he may play more a ruckman given the fact that Roughead might play quite a few senior games & Skipper has gone.

[stefoid]

I know what you mean, but actual positions arent as important as 'roles' these days... leadup forward, deep target etc...

Cordy will probably just come under the category of 'hard matcup'. Too tall for small defenders and too agile for big ones, something like a super-sized version of robert murphy. 'high' half forward for mine, with jones playing closer to goal for a longer target.

[chef]

It's going to be interesting to see where and if Cordy, Grant and Jones fit into the forward line.

[mighty_west]

It's going to be interesting to see where and if Cordy, Grant and Jones fit into the forward line.

Roughead as well, Minson is still relatively young as a ruckman.

I believe the ideal set up is for 2 big forwards, Lloyd & Lucas, Brown & Bradshaw, Roughead & Buddy, as well as dropping a resting ruck down forward at times, so it is going to be very interesting, that is if they all make it off course, plus Everitt could also push forward.

Am i seeing something quite rare here asa Doggies supporter, and perhaps maybe having too many tall options in the future, nice problem to have!