Forward line in 2010 with Hall

[Dry Rot]

Now we have a genuine big CHF, how will our forward line change?

One obvious question is how we use Murphy - does he join Hall and Gia or Everitt on the half forward line or does Murphy play closer to goal?

Who will play FF? Does Minson still play down there a bit or Hahn or someone else? I hope we won't see a gorilla FB on Hill next season.

[The Coon Dog]

Who's our genuine big CHF?

I see Barry Hall much more as a full forward.

[boydogs]

I know you have seen Hall more than most being a Sydneysider, but I would be thinking we will leave him deep. We need someone there to contest the deep ball with more bulk than Hill and better hands than Minson. If he can attract a couple of defenders there staying in dangerous positions, our other forwards will be all the better for it

HF: Higgins Johnson Murphy
FF: Hahn Hall Aker

Gia, Hill, Minson and mids rotating through

[Dry Rot]

Dunno what Eade has in mind, but playing him deep or at FF would be a change for Hall.

Has usually played a more roaming role for the Swans, but they did have Micky O as a deep forward.

If he's fit, he's very mobile and has a good tank for a big bastard. Anchoring him deep is IMO not using all his capabilities.

Has always played a CHF role FWIW.

[chef]

Now we have a genuine big CHF, how will our forward line change?

One obvious question is how we use Murphy - does he join Hall and Gia or Everitt on the half forward line or does Murphy play closer to goal?

Who will play FF? Does Minson still play down there a bit or Hahn or someone else? I hope we won't see a gorilla FB on Hill next season.

I don't think it will change much from this year. Players like Aker, Johno, Higgins, Hahn, Minson etc will rotate through the position. Hopefully Grant can have a huge preseason and make the position his own.

[Go_Dogs]

Many possibilities for our forward line for 2010. One thing we do need is a zippy forward, so hopefully Stack can cement a spot in the mix.

Many other players who can rotate through:

Hall
Murphy
Hahn
Johnson
Giansiracusa
Akermanis
Higgins
Hill
Ward
Cooney
Picken

and then a perhaps someone like Grant may come into the mix.

There are so many rotations that it's almost impossible to put up 6 names w/o leaving someone out, so I won't even attempt. Needless to say, if we get the mix just right - with a tall and a zippy, defensive/goal sneak - we could improve our already dangerous mix a lot.

[1eyedog]

IMO when fit Murphy is a much better option as a roaming CHF than Hall. Murphy consistently takes 10 marks a game and they would be all uncontested, meaning that he knows where to go, when to go and how to shake off his opponent. If Murphy is kicking it inside 50 at least 10-12 times on his own why would we remove him from this role?

I agree that Hall plays better footy away from the square, I've watched him at the SCG 3 or 4 times, but I think he needs to play deep next season. For one he provides a long target and if Hall plays deep he will take the Gorillas away from Hill and Hahn. I would play Hall about 30 m out from goal and sit Aker and Harbrow on either side of him.

[Hotdog60]

IMO when fit Murphy is a much better option as a roaming CHF than Hall. Murphy consistently takes 10 marks a game and they would be all uncontested, meaning that he knows where to go, when to go and how to shake off his opponent. If Murphy is kicking it inside 50 at least 10-12 times on his own why would we remove him from this role?

I agree that Hall plays better footy away from the square, I've watched him at the SCG 3 or 4 times, but I think he needs to play deep next season. For one he provides a long target and if Hall plays deep he will take the Gorillas away from Hill and Hahn. I would play Hall about 30 m out from goal and sit Aker and Harbrow on either side of him.

I think I share your opinion, Hall's good on the lead, he can do that from the goal line and let our mid fielders and CHF feed him.

[Before I Die]

Has always played a CHF role FWIW.

Always seemed to play Full Forward against us?

[Dry Rot]

Always seemed to play Full Forward against us?

I can recall games where Hall led up the ground and Micky O killed us deep.

[LostDoggy]

Was that in the early 90's? that would of been the last time Mickey O got a kick!!! Just kidding!! I think he was one of the most over rated footballers ever!!!

Next year I believe Eade's trickery will be in a league of its own. Don't think 6 man forward line pretty much I believe when we have the ball everyone will be attacking. I would like to see our fwds spread - and we will back them to beat their opponents one on one.

If Hall can kick 40 - 60 Goals awesome...

I look fwd to seeing Hill getting a better matchup, even high HF or wing.
Aker just going about his business
Minson pinch hitting up there an occasion and to stretch opp defence
Higgins - we all know what he can do
Johnno - will also get a better matchup & look out
Murphy - will actually be fit - so look out
Everitt - might show us what he can do
Gia, resting Cooney, Griff endless options...
Not sure about Mitchy tho - his good games are great, may get a new role?

A lot to get excited about I believe!!!

[Twodogs]

I can recall games where Hall led up the ground and Micky O killed us deep.


There's an easy way to solve this question. Which of our guys went with him when he went further up the ground?


Decoy full forwards have been used for decades. Collngwood used Gordon Coventry as one in the 1929 grand final and Tubby Edmonds kicked 6 from the pocket-Collingwood wanted the Richmond fullback out of the play (Donald Don or Morrie Hunter-I cant remember).

[Dry Rot]

Is it that simple? I've seen a fair of the Swans on a longer ground than the SCG, which is pretty short.

At Homebush, IIRC Hall was more active between the 50m arc and the centre square (and beyond) than the goals and the 50m arc.

But how we chose to play him may be different to his role at the Swans. Dunno whether Murphy's body will stand up to much more of CHF play.

[Twodogs]

Is it that simple? I've seen a fair of the Swans on a longer ground than the SCG, which is pretty short.


At Homebush, IIRC Hall was more active between the 50m arc and the centre square (and beyond) than the goals and the 50m arc.


Nothing in footy is ever simple Dave.


Where Hall is positioned will change from weel to week depending on the ground, weather conditions and his opponent. And our game plan of course-the beauty of Hall is that he can play from the goal square and either mark or bring the ball to ground(The job Minson is suposed to do whenever he doesnt forget and lead toward the ball carrier) or he can take an opponent out of play (Not like that!) by running to places he knows the ball isnt going to go


But how we chose to play him may be different to his role at the Swans.

Well the ball will certainly be delivered to him a lot quicker than it was at the Swans so that will be a fairly big chanmge. Apart from that I'd expect the defensive aspect from the Swans game plan to be something we'd want him to keep up.

Eade has said that if Barry kicks 70 goals and we finish 5th then it's been a failure but if Barry kicks 30 goals and helps the team to a top 2 finish then it's been a success. I reckon that's a fair gauge but I'd be even more rapt if BBB kicks 80 and we finish top 2.




Dunno whether Murphy's body will stand up to much more of CHF play


It's not so much Murph's body that takes a pounding. He's more the type of forward who loses his direct opponent and then takes possession uncontested. His knee (and associated hamstring problems) is his big worry but from all reports his knee is better now than it has been since he popped it against Collingwood that night.

Anyway Murph is a clever enough player to get extra time by changing positions late in his career I reckon.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I look fwd to seeing Hill getting a better matchup, even high HF or wing.
Aker just going about his business
Minson pinch hitting up there an occasion and to stretch opp defence
Higgins - we all know what he can do
Johnno - will also get a better matchup & look out
Murphy - will actually be fit - so look out
Everitt - might show us what he can do
Gia, resting Cooney, Griff endless options...
Not sure about Mitchy tho - his good games are great, may get a new role?

A lot to get excited about I believe!!!
A lot to be excited yes in deed.

I cant see Minson getting a run down at FF as he has not been effective spending 70% of the game in the square over the last 3 years.

I would hope that rocket runs Johno, Aker, Ward, Stack, Cooney, Griffen, Gia, Murf Higgo along side Hall out of the square.

The big question for me is do we play Roughead/Everitt instead of Minson as he is not as good around the ground and gives away to many free kicks.

Everitt would be better to play a bit like Josh Fraser at the pies.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure about Mitchy tho - his good games are great, may get a new role?

Wouldn't mind seeing him as a burst player in the middle, to be honest.

He could use his body & strength to get the ball out, also could shift forward during matches.

[1eyedog]

Wouldn't mind seeing him as a burst player in the middle, to be honest.

He could use his body & strength to get the ball out, also could shift forward during matches.

A big Brad Sewell type?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Wouldn't mind seeing him as a burst player in the middle, to be honest.

He could use his body & strength to get the ball out, also could shift forward during matches.

Mitch's career has been funny. Started off playing some games across half back before shifting into the midfield for a bit. He was OK for a while but he didn't have the endurance or pace and as a result has turned into a full time CHF type.

If he's able to shed a few kgs, perhaps he can become a burst player in the midfield again. Not sure about his endurance/possession rate though.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Where Hall is positioned will change from weel to week depending on the ground, weather conditions and his opponent. And our game plan of course-the beauty of Hall is that he can play from the goal square and either mark or bring the ball to ground(The job Minson is suposed to do whenever he doesnt forget and lead toward the ball carrier) or he can take an opponent out of play (Not like that!) by running to places he knows the ball isnt going to go

Well the ball will certainly be delivered to him a lot quicker than it was at the Swans so that will be a fairly big chanmge. Apart from that I'd expect the defensive aspect from the Swans game plan to be something we'd want him to keep up.


Good summation.

Hall's not a restrictive player which was one of the main appealing assets when weighing up whether to chase him. Our side gets thrown around a lot and apart from maybe 6-10 players, backmen can become forwards and vice versa. On the bigger grounds (MCG) I suspect Barry might begin around the 30m area and lead out to the 60-70m space. We've struggled in this area previously so I think he'll be pushed further up the ground and especially in Finals. At ES and other smaller venues, Hall's probably of more value to us starting at FF. Generally on the smaller grounds we don't have a problem working the ball up so he can afford to play deeper.

However, he's a versatile type as many have alluded to. If we're struggling deep no matter what ground or situation, I'd expect Hall to be thrown into the FF role. If we're struggling at half forward, Barry will push up.

Murphy's role will be interesting. Having two "CHFs" could destroy sides but one of them may have to play deep because against Geelong and St. Kilda we've always struggled in one of the two areas. Perhaps Hall and Murph can swap according to what's working best?

[LostDoggy]

A big Brad Sewell type?

Yeah, someone hard and tough in there.


Mitch's career has been funny. Started off playing some games across half back before shifting into the midfield for a bit. He was OK for a while but he didn't have the endurance or pace and as a result has turned into a full time CHF type.

If he's able to shed a few kgs, perhaps he can become a burst player in the midfield again. Not sure about his endurance/possession rate though.

Agree.

His endurance would be the only thing to question, over than that i think he would be good.

[Before I Die]

There's an easy way to solve this question. Which of our guys went with him when he went further up the ground?


Decoy full forwards have been used for decades. Collngwood used Gordon Coventry as one in the 1929 grand final and Tubby Edmonds kicked 6 from the pocket-Collingwood wanted the Richmond fullback out of the play (Donald Don or Morrie Hunter-I cant remember).

Considering it was 80 years ago I am not surprised. I never realised we had an octogenarian (nonogenarian?) as a regular poster, let alone an esteemed moderator. :D

[Sockeye Salmon]

Considering it was 80 years ago I am not surprised. I never realised we had an octogenarian (nonogenarian?) as a regular poster, let alone an esteemed moderator. :D

The reason Twodogs can't remember the detail is because he was already old in 1929. He's pushing 200, you know.


(And still younger than EJ Smith)


.

[Twodogs]

Considering it was 80 years ago I am not surprised. I never realised we had an octogenarian (nonogenarian?) as a regular poster, let alone an esteemed moderator. :D


The reason Twodogs can't remember the detail is because he was already old in 1929. He's pushing 200, you know.


(And still younger than EJ Smith)


.


Actually I'm only 19. The sex and drugs component of the Sex and drugs and rock'n'roll ethos I've devoted my life to has aged me shockingly.

[Dry Rot]

Good summation.

Hall's not a restrictive player which was one of the main appealing assets when weighing up whether to chase him. Our side gets thrown around a lot and apart from maybe 6-10 players, backmen can become forwards and vice versa. On the bigger grounds (MCG) I suspect Barry might begin around the 30m area and lead out to the 60-70m space. We've struggled in this area previously so I think he'll be pushed further up the ground and especially in Finals. At ES and other smaller venues, Hall's probably of more value to us starting at FF. Generally on the smaller grounds we don't have a problem working the ball up so he can afford to play deeper.

However, he's a versatile type as many have alluded to. If we're struggling deep no matter what ground or situation, I'd expect Hall to be thrown into the FF role. If we're struggling at half forward, Barry will push up.

Murphy's role will be interesting. Having two "CHFs" could destroy sides but one of them may have to play deep because against Geelong and St. Kilda we've always struggled in one of the two areas. Perhaps Hall and Murph can swap according to what's working best?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/91644/default.aspx

Interesting quote from Eade


"The spread of goalkickers was back to what we normally are, which was good. Barry dished a few off and I thought he opened the game up really well in the third quarter up at centre half-forward and that accelerated the game our way."

[Go_Dogs]

Good bump DR.

I think Hall playing further up the field is crucial at times as it will allow us to isolate more 1 v 1 or 2 v 2's inside our F50, and hopefully lead to less congestion as opposition numbers won't be flooding back into Barry's space.

We could end up with a Murphy/Hall combination outside the F50, with Hahn, Johnson and Hill providing marking options closer to goal - and varying combinations of the above. I think it's good to have that flexibility and will help keep us more unpredictable, and help keep our spread of goal kicking options.


I thought it was a fairly obvious remark at the time, but is becoming even more pressing:


Many possibilities for our forward line for 2010. One thing we do need is a zippy forward

I earmarked Stack at the time, but not sure if he's going to be the answer - maybe he still is? Identifying a player who can play that role though would be terrific. (A ready made one ideally - although it may already be a year too late).

[stefoid]

Theres only a handful of players in history who haven't struggled when double or triple teamed, and Hall isnt one of them.

[Hot_Doggies]

Good bump DR.





I earmarked Stack at the time, but not sure if he's going to be the answer - maybe he still is? Identifying a player who can play that role though would be terrific. (A ready made one ideally - although it may already be a year too late).


I don't think has enough pace to be a zippy forward.

Harbrow is the most likely option, with Picken playing the back pocket roll. Lose a lot drive and creativety with Harbrow going forward.

[comrade]

I earmarked Stack at the time, but not sure if he's going to be the answer - maybe he still is? Identifying a player who can play that role though would be terrific. (A ready made one ideally - although it may already be a year too late).

Defensive pressure is all about mindset. You have to be 100% committed to stalking your opponent - the best small forwards seem to get a perverse joy out of running down defenders and making them look silly.

At this point, Stack just doesn't consistently display the required killer instinct. Heres hoping that 2010 is a watershed year, as there is a spot for him if it clicks.

[LostDoggy]

A friend of mine at the game against the Hawks said you don't get a true indication of what Barry does out on the ground when watching the tele. She said he never stopped moving, was constantly running and leading. A consummate team player, she said. We will be a much better team when Hall and the ball deliverers learn to read each other better, and that also implies we should be getting the ball to the best deliverers as often as we can.

[Dry Rot]

A friend of mine at the game against the Hawks said you don't get a true indication of what Barry does out on the ground when watching the tele. She said he never stopped moving, was constantly running and leading.

Agree with that after watching many Swans games live. Covers a lot of ground.

[bornadog]

A friend of mine at the game against the Hawks said you don't get a true indication of what Barry does out on the ground when watching the tele. She said he never stopped moving, was constantly running and leading. A consummate team player, she said. We will be a much better team when Hall and the ball deliverers learn to read each other better, and that also implies we should be getting the ball to the best deliverers as often as we can.

We showed that in the last quarter against the Hawks.

[Mantis]

Agree with that after watching many Swans games live. Covers a lot of ground.

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!

That was the 100th post in which you have mentioned you have watched the Swans live on many occassions.

No need to keep mentioning it, we get the picture.

[Dry Rot]

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!

That was the 100th post in which you have mentioned you have watched the Swans live on many occassions.

No need to keep mentioning it, we get the picture.

I'm surprised it took you 100 posts to feel the need to comment. :)

[Mantis]

I'm surprised it took you 100 posts to feel the need to comment. :)

I only like to celeberate momentous achievements. ;)

[bornadog]

With Aker not kicking a goal yet, we need some crumbers around Hall to help out.

Last year Aker contributed over 40 goals as did Johnno.

[LostDoggy]

We showed that in the last quarter against the Hawks.

I think that was because their runners couldn't get down there quick enough to clog up the space; they'd run out of legs. Equally, we seemed to have easier take aways for the same reason. I worry that when we don't get clear run into the forward line and we are completely bottled up (as the top sides like Saints can do to us), Hall has no room to move. The ball deliverer is under pressure, and the resultant errant kick or bombing it long and hoping, all mean that Hall is asked to use what is not his best asset - pack mark and get the ball while being double and triple teamed.

[Remi Moses]

So far So Good. Barry's been exemplory