Depth or Stars?

[Bulldog Revolution]

Do we not have enough depth or not have enough genuine stars?

[Dry Rot]

Depends how you define depth - does it include the concept of balance?

We lack Brock McLean types and KPPs.

[GVGjr]

Do we not have enough depth or not have enough genuine stars?

We compromised our depth last year with the delisitings and the drafting of so many light bodied midfields and project players.

I actually think we lack both depth and players with that star quality but most importantly we lack consistency with the emerging group of McMahon (who has had his best season)
Cooney, Ray and Giansiracusa. Of course the likes of Hahn and Murphy coming back from injury hasn't assisted either.

The coach is very focused on speed and I think this serves us well against the middle of the road teams but exposes us against the hard bodied elite teams like Sydney, West Coast and Adelaide.
I'm not sure if he is prepared to modify this approach but clearly we haven't got the balance right in either depth or players that can change a game and we are well short of the mark at present.

Things might turn around but at the moment we are a fair way behind most of the interstate teams.

[Go_Dogs]

I think our mixture is good. Judd, Kerr, Cousins these types of players are of a similar built to the way Cooney, Griffen, Higgins etc are built - they have good core strength, but also have good burst strength. Our guys are 3 or so years behind in their development to their WC counterparts, so I wouldn't say we're too far off the mark. As with all things, identifying the players to fill the roles is only half the battle, we're now waiting for these players to develop, which never happens overnight. I think we have the players to take that next step, save for possibly 1 hard bodied midfielder who can keep his feet, use speed and good skills (doesn't every club need another?), and one classy KPP to play forward. We'd hoped Darcy would prove the answer to our forward problems, but it's seeming like he won't be our savior. McDougall is one who'll certainly be looked at, but again, there is a lot of work needed to get him to the level that we need.

I think our midfield problems aren't too bad. With Boyd and Cross coming through we have a few hard bodies, however these guys aren't very skillful by foot, and are pretty slow, so they often go to ground and struggle to extract the ball with any real conviction out of the clearance.

The 2 players who we need to step up are Cooney and Griffen. Skillful, quick and strong. If these two guys get their bodies and their heads right, and set out to establish themselves as the best midfield pair going around in a premiership winning team, they can do it. I'd almost go as far to say, that our chances of winning a premiership in the next year or 2, depends largely on the output of these two youngsters.

[bornadog]

I think our mixture is good. The 2 players who we need to step up are Cooney and Griffen. Skillful, quick and strong. If these two guys get their bodies and their heads right, and set out to establish themselves as the best midfield pair going around in a premiership winning team, they can do it. I'd almost go as far to say, that our chances of winning a premiership in the next year or 2, depends largely on the output of these two youngsters.

I tend to agree, once these guys get closer to the 100 games mark, they are going to be absolute stars. An interesting look at the comparison between us and Swans on the weekend with the number of games played showed how much more experienced they were.

Western Bulldogs.................... Games...................... Sydney
6 ............................................Less than 50.................4
8............................................. 50 to 99...................... 6
3.............................................100 to 149....................4
5.............................................150 or more................. 8

[Bulldog Revolution]

All interesting observations

I think how good we get is going to be determined by how many of the guys most likely:
McMahon, Gilbee, Murphy, Giansiracusa, Hahn, Cooney, Ray, Griffen, Higgins, Morris, Hargraves, Harris, Wight and Addison can become the elite of the competition.

We have 5 guys on the list who have been genuinely elite players of the competition in Johnson, West, Akermanis, Darcy and Grant - these guys have been genuine superstars, but they are all the wrong side of 30.

Murphy looked well on the way pre-knee. and was perhaps almost there, Gilbees last two years have been at that level. McMahon started this year in that type of form and Dry Rot's lovechild form has been very good. Cooney appears to be held back OP and the rest have a ways to go IMO.

Part of our problem seems to be the lack of goal kicking power from this group as in - we dont appear to have a key forward in this group.

[Dry Rot]

Part of our problem seems to be the lack of goal kicking power from this group as in - we dont appear to have a key forward in this group.

Ditto genuine hard bodied midfielders and ruckmen.

[bornadog]

Part of our problem seems to be the lack of goal kicking power from this group as in - we dont appear to have a key forward in this group.

I am not that worried about goal kicking. If you look at the number of goals we have kicked under Eade, ie in 2005, 2006 and current, we have been in the top three of the AFL. Unfortunatetly we have also been in the top three for goals against. I really believe we need another Brian Harris at CHB, especially since Grant has only half a season before he retires.

As for hard bodied midfielders, also a myth, statistics show we have won the contested ball more than the opposition in the past three games, so we can do it. DR rightly points out, the rucks are currently a worry. When Street is playing well, we win, but he got smashed on the weekend which didn't help our cause, but we need a good back up. Whether Minson will come good (remember he has only played 41 games and only just turned 22, so not mature yet) time will tell. Eade has been trying Wight out, but needs alot of work to be considered a ruckman.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I see Minsons future as bright given his age and application - I acknowledge he has a ways to go but once hes played another 60 games I expect him to be pretty good. I was surprised that we did not pick up a developing ruckman last year, and you have to wonder why we didn't draft Ben Hudson all those years a go.

I can see the pipeline of hard bodied midfielders developing, it shouldn't be long before Griffen, Cooney and Ray are exactly that, Higgins and Addison are a little further behind, and then Cross, Boyd, Gia etc should be coming into their prime.

I can also see the pipeline of defenders in Williams, Everitt, OShea and even Pask but I just cant see the pipeline of forwards. We have McDougall who I have hopes will emerge in his second year with us.

Ryder and Franklin were both high draft picks and so its not enormously surprising we didn't get them. We chose Griffen over Franklin, whereas Ryder went at 7 and our first pick was 11 S.Higgins

[bornadog]

IRyder and Franklin were both high draft picks and so its not enormously surprising we didn't get them. We chose Griffen over Franklin, whereas Ryder went at 7 and our first pick was 11 S.Higgins

Griffen and Higgins, not a bad pick:)

It would be nice to have a developing CHF. maybe Walsh will come good if he can stay injury free. Other than McDougall and Walsh, I am not sure who else we could develop up forward.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Griffen and Higgins, not a bad pick:)

It would be nice to have a developing CHF. maybe Walsh will come good if he can stay injury free. Other than McDougall and Walsh, I am not sure who else we could develop up forward.

They were good picks - cant complain about Griff or Higgins

Walsh is just completely unable to stay injury free, even without the acl injury he is basically always injured. The club might keep the faith, and if they think he can make it up forward, the have every right to, but the boy really cant take a trick.

[bornadog]

They were good picks - cant complain about Griff or Higgins

Walsh is just completely unable to stay injury free, even without the acl injury he is basically always injured. The club might keep the faith, and if they think he can make it up forward, the have every right to, but the boy really cant take a trick.

To be fair to him and all the ACL guys, they were all hit with a hammy. Unfortunatelty Walsh's was more serious. I just hope he can stay injury free and show us what he is made of, we certaintly need some one with his size.

[Dry Rot]

To be fair to him and all the ACL guys, they were all hit with a hammy. Unfortunatelty Walsh's was more serious. I just hope he can stay injury free and show us what he is made of, we certaintly need some one with his size.

Can someone please refresh my memory why and when we drafted him?

It seems many years ago now.

[southerncross]

Can someone please refresh my memory why and when we drafted him?

It seems many years ago now.

Originally Clayton wanted Mackie but was hoping he would slide down to pick 17 (Faulkner) but went for the more genuine KPP. Injuries have really slowed him down.

[Dry Rot]

Originally Clayton wanted Mackie but was hoping he would slide down to pick 17 (Faulkner) but went for the more genuine KPP. Injuries have really slowed him down.

Was it 2003 at draft pick #4?

[Go_Dogs]

No, that was Ray. Walsh was taken a year before at #4. Also of note I guess is that it was Faulkner and Minson who were picked after Walsh at numbers 17 and 20. Boyd is probably the best player and he was a rookie selection in 2002 I believe (could be wrong).

[Bulldog Revolution]

To be fair to him and all the ACL guys, they were all hit with a hammy. Unfortunatelty Walsh's was more serious. I just hope he can stay injury free and show us what he is made of, we certaintly need some one with his size.

Sure I wasn't getting stuck into him about the hammy

BUT he just cant stay injury free - Walsh has had broken legs, collarbones, detached tendons in his thumb.

Even as a junior he could not stay injury free and hardly played in TAC Under 18s