The disturbing trend of my favourite players

[EasternWest]

I was discussing footy with a colleague the other day, talking about the ins and outs of our teams and lists and he blurted out "What is it with you and the nobodies?".

At first I was a bit taken aback (I had to point out that All Australian Matthew Boyd is far from a nobody), but then I thought about it later and realised he had a point. For as long as I've been taking football seriously (about 95 I became seriously interested again and by 2000 I was a Dogs tragic once more), it seems my favourite players have always been the strugglers, battlers and triers. If anyone ever asked me my favourite player, it was always someone they'd never or barely heard of. What does that say about me (maybe don't answer that)? Does anyone else feel the same way?

Don't get me wrong, I love our champions, but there's something about the desperate fringe dweller I can't help feeling endeared towards.

Here's a list of said players from then to now:

Curley
Croft
Cox
Montgomery
Contessa
West M
Robbins
Harrison
Birss
Hargrave
McGuiness
Boyd
Cross
Morris
Morgan
Addison (of course)
Tiller
Callan
Wood
Picken

See what I mean?

My friend Warren once said he felt the same about the battlers, until they reached a stage (Morris, Boyd etc) that they no longer needed him and he moved onto the next struggler. I like to think maybe there's something in that. Boyd is a good example. I still love him, but don't desperately hope he succeeds like when he first came on scene, because he's made it now. Obviously there are others now on that list that don't need me any more, but I'm always on the lookout for fresh new blood.:)

[Swoop]

Perhaps it's what they symbolize that draws you to these players. The honest battler who isn't as skilled as his peers but determined to make it and once they've made it they no longer symbolize someone trying to make the grade as they're established hence you're support is no longer required.

Mind you there's some fairly talented players in your list but I certainly do see a trend. Maybe there is some deeper psychological issues invovled, were you hugged as a child? :)

[LostDoggy]

Isn't supporting the Dogs (for those of us who had a choice) just a club-level symptom of the same trait?

Those who like the glitzy, overhyped, obvious choices all jump on the bandwagons of 'whoever is the dynasty/rich/successful team of the time' (only to drop off when they become crap), while many of us who are die-hard Dogs fans obviously eschew the limelight for more noble, less obvious (and blue-collar, to some extent) characteristics like honesty, hard-work, integrity and the like, so it's no surprise that in our 'favourite player' choices we would tend towards the 'blue collar' types: consummate team-players, quiet over-achievers etc. etc. and not the lairy/flighty 'superstars', although we have been lucky that our own genuine superstars -- Johnno and Granty especially -- are also genuine champions off the field.

[mjp]

There are some pretty good players on the list you made - but it is dominated by the types of footballer a coach is always looking to replace. Of the current players, I found it interesting Wood is on your list - he is more flash than grunt...surely Reid is more aligned with your ethos?

I guess the other thing is that a lot of the guys you favor got a chance relatively early after being drafted (Addison is a good example) mainly through their high workrate. The problem is of course this only carries you so far....

[LostDoggy]

I found it interesting Wood is on your list - he is more flash than grunt...surely Reid is more aligned with your ethos?

Why choose when you can have flash-AND-grunt in Ward? :)

ps. I'm a huge Picken fan too.

pps. mjp, I'm interested to hear your perspective on the 'players you are always looking to replace' line, despite them having usually a very high work-rate. Are you saying that there's just no substitute for natural talent and/or physique? What is the threshold for this? Would a super-talented but slightly lazy player be more highly rated than a limited but tireless one, or a slightly taller/faster player be rated higher despite having a significantly lower work-rate (a la Everitt Jr., I suppose).

I guess the argument can be made for either as there are plenty of good and bad examples of both.

[Charlie the Wonder Dog]

Isn't supporting the Dogs (for those of us who had a choice) just a club-level symptom of the same trait?

Those who like the glitzy, overhyped, obvious choices all jump on the bandwagons of 'whoever is the dynasty/rich/successful team of the time' (only to drop off when they become crap), while many of us who are die-hard Dogs fans obviously eschew the limelight for more noble, less obvious (and blue-collar, to some extent) characteristics like honesty, hard-work, integrity and the like, so it's no surprise that in our 'favourite player' choices we would tend towards the 'blue collar' types: consummate team-players, quiet over-achievers etc. etc. and not the lairy/flighty 'superstars', although we have been lucky that our own genuine superstars -- Johnno and Granty especially -- are also genuine champions off the field.


Lantern

Thank you for very eloquently describing exactly how I feel:)

cheers

Charlie

[Greystache]

It's an interesting phenomenon, I've been similar over the years too. Whenever it was time to buy a new Bulldogs geurnsey, I would always try and pick a young low profile player and stick with them in the hope they developed into a senior player.

The years and numbers I've had have been-

1983- 33- Brian Royal (because I turned 3 at the start of the season and my dad wouldn't let me have Mark Kellet's number)
1988- 44- Mark Hunter (later changed to 10)
1994- 14- Scott West (later changed to 7)
2006- 36- Brian Lake.

Most of my mates have had Hawkins, or Grant, or Johnson over the years, but I always liked the idea of being the first to pick up on a guy with potential.

[LostDoggy]

I too have this syndrome... Cam Wight was my last tradgic decision, I am always sure they are going to make it! haha

Come on Jarrad Grant!

[mjp]

Are you saying that there's just no substitute for natural talent and/or physique? What is the threshold for this? Would a super-talented but slightly lazy player be more highly rated than a limited but tireless one, or a slightly taller/faster player be rated higher despite having a significantly lower work-rate (a la Everitt Jr., I suppose).

I guess the argument can be made for either as there are plenty of good and bad examples of both.

Well, one thing for sure - you can't be both lazy and lack skill!

It is a kind of different strokes type model I guess, but if someone continually misses targets or makes poor 'footy' decisions - they will be overtaken by someone who wont make those same mistakes. It is also time and place - how many 'lock down taggers' can you play for example? If your 'skill' is in abundance at your club then you are in trouble - and if you dont play and play consistently then your development will slow down.

To really 'make it', you simply must have one outstanding quality that separates you from the pack. Cross is a star of the competition but his kicking is pretty poor - his ability to gut run and provide his team-mates an option is elite however. And yeah, he does other stuff (courage etc) that is very good, but I am not sure that is what differentiates him from the Adam Contessas of the world.

Everitt has his kicking. That might very well see him through. What does someone like Addison or Callan or Wood have? I guess Wood has his running speed and core strength, Callan and Addison are completely fearless...will those things be enough?

[w3design]

Hey dfa4pm,
Could it all come down to one simple word?...HEART!

[LostDoggy]

Hey dfa4pm,
Could it all come down to one simple word?...HEART!

It was for me and Callan Ward. First game he backed into a pack and got crunched. Been my favourite young bloke ever since(see signature). Fully sick, mate!!!

[LostDoggy]

Well, one thing for sure - you can't be both lazy and lack skill!

It is a kind of different strokes type model I guess, but if someone continually misses targets or makes poor 'footy' decisions - they will be overtaken by someone who wont make those same mistakes. It is also time and place - how many 'lock down taggers' can you play for example? If your 'skill' is in abundance at your club then you are in trouble - and if you dont play and play consistently then your development will slow down.

To really 'make it', you simply must have one outstanding quality that separates you from the pack. Cross is a star of the competition but his kicking is pretty poor - his ability to gut run and provide his team-mates an option is elite however. And yeah, he does other stuff (courage etc) that is very good, but I am not sure that is what differentiates him from the Adam Contessas of the world.

Everitt has his kicking. That might very well see him through. What does someone like Addison or Callan or Wood have? I guess Wood has his running speed and core strength, Callan and Addison are completely fearless...will those things be enough?

Thanks for the insight mjp -- much appreciated.

In the vein of the sport-of-the-moment, it sounds pretty similar to the 'weapon' discussion in tennis -- gone are the days in men's tennis of the 'pusher' (solid in every department without being outstanding), of which there were quite a few even until around ten years ago (the species arguably finally died last year out with the retirement of Fabrice Santoro).. these days, being steady without being able to hurt your opponent won't get you much past the Challenger circuit. Plenty of 'pushers' still on the women's side of the draw though.

--

Callan and Addison would only differentiate themselves if they became 'specialists' at something -- and Callan would be a specialist defender, so he would theoretically have better-than-average defensive nous, which is valuable. Addison not so much -- I reckon he has to mould himself on Matty Boyd if he is to go to the next level; inside ball-winner, solid distributor, super-fit, uber-consistent, with a dash of 'leadership' skills (of which you really can't have enough of). He's still young enough that he could establish himself as Crossy gets older, although Picken has gone past him in the pecking order.

[LostDoggy]

It was for me and Callan Ward. First game he backed into a pack and got crunched. Been my favourite young bloke ever since(see signature). Fully sick, mate!!!

Me too mate, super star in the making, this will be a big year for Ward, amazing football brain for someone so youngand guts to go with it.

[mjp]

I reckon he has to mould himself on Matty Boyd if he is to go to the next level; inside ball-winner, solid distributor, super-fit, uber-consistent, with a dash of 'leadership' skills (of which you really can't have enough of). He's still young enough that he could establish himself as Crossy gets older, although Picken has gone past him in the pecking order.

Good role model. Hard work alone wont make you elite though - there has to be that little extra something you bring. If DFA models his game on Boydy, that probably means he will become a 'poor mans' Matty Boyd who is selected when Matty Boyd is injured or otherwise unavailable...I still say he has to find 'something else' - something from within - that pushes him over the top. Boydy found it - composure under pressure (it is like the quicker the game goes, the better his decision making becomes) but this would have been inside him always...hard work and commitment to improving just allowed it to come out.

All the talk about Ward is fine - composed young player who really does have elite kicking skills. And yeah, I am sure he works hard on this. To be honest though - as a TAC Cup player, there were much harder working players in the same side as him who were never, ever, ever going to play AFL footy. I think he has a chance to become (eventually) a top 25 player in the comp...and he will have to work hard to become that. I think someone like an Addison or Callan will have to do everything right and set new standards for fitness and work-ethic to play 100 games. This isn't because they aren't hard workers or aren't good blokes or I dont like them or whatever - to me that is the talent level they have and I hope they are able to maximise it.

This is what annoys me about the 'he could have' stories you hear from local and country leagues. If he could have, he would have - the clubs WOULD have found him if he was good enough - so just accept him for what he is. A brilliant player at the level he is at who never quite had what it takes to make the elite level.

[Swoop]

I have seen aspects of Addison's game that show true potential, he is great at winning one on one contests and his toughness and aggression at the football is inspiring and uplifting for his teammates.

Similarly to the feedback Luke Ball was receiving he needs to focus on his ability to break from the contest and win the uncontested football as well as his usual contested ball. His skills can be hot and cold but I have seen him deliver some beautiful passes going forward, he needs to improve the difference between his best and worst kicks in order to cement a spot.

[w3design]

I have seen aspects of Addison's game that show true potential, he is great at winning one on one contests and his toughness and aggression at the football is inspiring and uplifting for his teammates.

Similarly to the feedback Luke Ball was receiving he needs to focus on his ability to break from the contest and win the uncontested football as well as his usual contested ball. His skills can be hot and cold but I have seen him deliver some beautiful passes going forward, he needs to improve the difference between his best and worst kicks in order to cement a spot.

Have to agree with a lot of your assesment Swoop. He started out a fair way back from a lot of his peers [ probably because of his NSW background]. But I think he is a work in progress. His skills are improving, his courage is terrific, his ability to find space is good. If his role is to continue to be as a defender, he still has a little way to go re controlling his opponent and blanketing them out of the game, but I reckon he is well worth persisting with if he continues to work on his reading of the play skills.

[Swoop]

I see Addison mainly as a midfielder who has strong defensive skills and can play back at times however his lateral movement or lack of it worries me especially playing on quality players in the defensive 50.

I would compare his movement to someone like Matthew Robbins who athletically was very gifted but was prone to be turned inside out by the genuinely quick agile small forwards of the competition when played in defence.

[mjp]

Have to agree with a lot of your assesment Swoop. He started out a fair way back from a lot of his peers [ probably because of his NSW background].

Huh? He was a second round draft pick - just like Ward was.

Liam Picken? He started a fair way back as a rookie listed, mature(r) aged run-with player.

[Go_Dogs]

Huh? He was a second round draft pick - just like Ward was.

Liam Picken? He started a fair way back as a rookie listed, mature(r) aged run-with player.

Wait, wait wait! Are you suggesting the football programs in the under-age NSW comp were as good as those Ward had with the Jets? ;)

I think it's fair enough to suggest that Addison wouldn't have had the same developed game sense, and skill set that kids from more traditional footy backgrounds would have.

[mjp]

Wait, wait wait! Are you suggesting the football programs in the under-age NSW comp were as good as those Ward had with the Jets? ;)

I think it's fair enough to suggest that Addison wouldn't have had the same developed game sense, and skill set that kids from more traditional footy backgrounds would have.

Do you want my usual rant about drafting players from division 2 states?

I guess I was saying he wasn't coming from a long way back...as a 2nd rounder, he is at the front of the queue of draft picks and given every chance to succeed by the footy club.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Addison will be lucky to still be on an AFL list in 2011 - West Sydney might help him become an Eker.

[KT31]

I too have this syndrome... Cam Wight was my last tradgic decision, I am always sure they are going to make it! haha

Come on Jarrad Grant!

We can tell by your user name you always supported the underdog.:D

[EasternWest]

Perhaps it's what they symbolize that draws you to these players. The honest battler who isn't as skilled as his peers but determined to make it and once they've made it they no longer symbolize someone trying to make the grade as they're established hence you're support is no longer required.

Mind you there's some fairly talented players in your list but I certainly do see a trend. Maybe there is some deeper psychological issues invovled, were you hugged as a child? :)

Not enough. You offering?

[EasternWest]

Wow, thanks for so many considered and intelligent responses. In response to a few things that some of you said:
MJP-I have Wood on the list because I've only really seen him up close at the preseason game against Essendon. He nailed someone (I think McVeigh?) in a really hard tackle right in front of me and I was impressed by his ferocity.
Swoop and Lantern-I think maybe your assessments are closest to the mark.
PaulV-Maybe
DaDruid-I couldn't put Callan Ward on the list. Don't get me wrong, I love him. I just don't see him as a battler ever. He's a gun. My favourite Callan Ward moment (and there's so many good ones already) was when he chased down Hudghton and chested up to him in his first game. Great stuff.

So it can be no surprise to know that Addison is probably my favourite player right now, and I was pleased to feel all the love/positivity towards him. Except you SS, but your statement was only opinion, not bagging him, so that's fair enough.
I do agree that as MJP stated he does need to find that something that sets him apart, but for mine there's always room in the 22 for someone with no fear at all. How do you mindfark a guy you can get no mental leverage over? I've always hoped that my fringe dwellers would go on and make it, but I'm especially hopeful that Dylan can, because I love the kid. Time will tell I guess, but I remain hopeful and optimistic.
Cheers Gang.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Great thread DFA

There is nothing wrong with appreciating the guys who maybe aren't as talented but give it everything they have in pursuit of that elusive premiership for us Scrays

I think often a lot of the guys you have mentioned have been maligned by supporters but have given it everything they had.

We have a number of important players on our list, and in our side that once would have been thought to be battlers for a variety of reasons, but have willed themselves to become league footballers through effort and sheer tenacity

I'm hopeful that Addison can make the improvements needed to really take the next step

I am hopeful that a huge preseason getting his runing capacity up can help give him far more confidence, particularly in taking the game on, and making decisions with the footy in his hands

[w3design]

Good for you DFA, you stick with Dylan A., and I'll cheer right along with you.
Well said B. Rev., I think you too have it just right.
And good luck to DA, you just go for it son.

[LostDoggy]

Born in '57 Been a Dog since I could talk. Does that mean I always support the Battler?
There's 22 of our players on the field and they're all my favorites, even a 1st gamer.:D