The 2010 Collingwood season

[GVGjr]

On paper I don't really rate this side and yet somehow they seem to be more than competitive with other sides. I expect them to be a real force again this year.

How do you see the Pies shaping this season?
What difference will the Likes of Jolly and Ball will make for them?

[chef]

On paper I don't really rate this side and yet somehow they seem to be more than competitive with other sides. I expect them to be a real force again this year.

How do you see the Pies shaping this season?
What difference will the Likes of Jolly and Ball will make for them?

I can see the Malthouse/Buckley thing being a distraction and hopefully derailing their season.

[The Coon Dog]

I can very well see them playing ourselves in the Grand Final. I honestly can't see them sliding, whereas I think Geelong may just & so could St. Kilda.

Jolly is an enormous boost to them & will provide their midfielders with plenty of drive. It will free up Fraser to go forward where he can be quite dangerous. Ball to me is another Shane O'Bree type & the longer he's on the ground, the more he'll be worked over.

Cloke is important & whilst he didn't have a good year last year, Collingwood still did. If he improves it'll be a real bonus for them.

Teams will have to consider whether its worth negating Dane Swan's drive. He was either too good last year for those who sought to tag him or wasn't paid enough attention.

As you say GVGjr, they are not a spectacular unit, but a solid one that gets the job done.

[Swoop]

They continue to perform on a consistent basis as most Malthouse teams have in the past. They are quietly building a decent list of players who can rotate through the midfield - Swan, Pendlebury, O'Bree, Ball, Didak, Davis, Lockyer and two up & coming stars in Beams & Sidebottom are all quality. Jolly will help them a lot in terms of winning the clearances and Ball will enable less pressure on Swan & Pendlebury especially on the inside. It appears they targeted Simon Buckley so they could also add Heath Shaw to the midfield mix but we'll have to wait and see whether that move turns out to be a success.

Despite his poor finish to the season Davis performed quite strongly throughout the middle of last season and took his game to a new level while I believe Didak has finally become a consistent damaging midfielder that he has teased everybody with in years gone by.

Defensively they are strong but they do rely heavily on Prestigiacomo being able to shut down his big opponents. Riewoldt was too good for him in their final and they didn't have many taller alternatives once he was being beaten. The fact that Presti is again one year older would worry them because if injuries hit there are still question marks on whether Brown has the ability to shut down the genuine stars of the competition like Presti has in the past.

Their biggest downfall appears to be their forward line with Cloke & Anthony very good solid players but under genuine pressure with quality opposition I don't feel they have the ability to win a match off their boot or even turn a match like some of the other quality sides have. Medhurst is a shadow of his former self due to injuries and he would be hoping to re-capture his 2008 form. I must admit Fraser is a wildcard now with Jolly at the club, I'm not sure if he can play as a forward but they certainly have that as an option now. I would be hoping this is where we could expose them when we come up against them in 2010.

They are well drilled and have a mature enough team to make the top 8 and do have the quality to trouble any side on their day, the draw isn't ideal in that they play most of the best sides twice throughout the year. I can't see them moving too far from where they've finished last year and they are one of 5 teams that could either go to another level or drop.

[lemmon]

I'm not prepared to write off Ball to the same extent others are. Injuries have taken a toll but a player with something to prove and not forgetting his obvious talent is always a dangerous proposition.

[bornadog]

With the addition of Jolly, this frees up the other rucks, who are just not up to scratch. Allows Fraser to play more up forward where I think he has always been more dangerous.

Malthouse has the knack of getting his players to play as a team and I can't see them slipping down the ladder too much

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Jolly's obviously a big inclusion for a side that got belted around in the ruck last year. He's a premier ruckman and can rest forward too. No doubt makes their list much stronger and probably frees Fraser up too. Not sure if Josh copes overly well with the number one mantle and the pressure. However, he's a good second string ruck and can push forward more often.

They've got some talented youngsters coming through the ranks and they aren't miles off a Premiership. However, I still think they're a couple players short on the top three sides. Brown and Reid will be crucial to them - if they can hold a key position (back or forward) then it makes them a difficult proposition. I rate Brown as a defender even if he's a little slow off the mark. I'd expect him to play on the 'stay at home' forwards and do OK.

Reid is still developing but they need him to play a few games and show something. They've groomed him to play CHB but they might still be tempted to swing him forward. A lot rests on Clokes shoulders, if he can become a 50 goal forward that's always moving around and taking marks then they'll be hard to stop.

David, Didak and Medhurst are real keys come September. All need to be firing if they're going to go deep into September. They all faded badly and unless they can adapt to the intensity of finals it's hard to see Collingwood challenging. They've got a lot of good, solid players but the three I mentioned are match winners. They just don't do it when it really counts.

As TCD said, they could make the GF ... but if they get similar outputs from key players as they have the last couple of years is finals, they won't be a threat.

[boydogs]

Jolly for them is like Hall for us - top line recruit in an area of weakness. Just don't think there is enough quality across the side for them to get close to the flag. 5th or 6th for mine

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Jolly is a huge inclusion for the Magpies. Hard to justify the asking price of Luke Ball, whose injuries and lack of pace have seen him struggle in recent years. The keys to Collingwood are Swan, Didak and Pendlebury. We should have them covered with the Bulldogs superior mid field division, providing we man up on the likes of Swan and Didak.
Collingwood are well coached and will be thereabouts. Whether they have enough class and pace is debateable.

[LostDoggy]

Are the pies a bit on the slow side? I'm hoping anyway.

[GVGjr]

Are the pies a bit on the slow side? I'm hoping anyway.


Not a lot of place in the midfield but good skills can sometime cover the slower guys.

[LostDoggy]

Not a lot of pace in the midfield but good skills can sometime cover the slower guys.
Well I'm hoping cos I can't really stand them. No matter what people think of Jolly, he has strengthened what was a pretty weak ruck division.
Ball, O'Bree and Sidebottom aren't the paciest blokes around.

[Swoop]

There are also some lingering question marks on their bigger name players in tight big games, only performance can change that perception but certainly Leon Davis would want to stand up in September and to a lesser extent so would Swan and even Cloke.

[Go_Dogs]

I think they'll certainly improve again.

They have a good mix of older and younger players, and have improved (via trades and the draft) the major weaknesses they had last year.

They have a lot of match winners who can turn a game.

[ledge]

I tend to think they will struggle, the good players who got loose last year will be paid more attention and blokes like Obree are getting older and slower.

Malthouse is great at taking an average side and making them play well but in the end overachieving means you dont get the really good young kids in the draft and it takes its toll after a few years.

[Mofra]

I think they are a genuine threat. Their pacier players tend to be outside types, and their gameplan is very different to other sides in that they almost try to hug the boundary when they move the ball, which probably helps them switch the ball as the fat side gets fatter. Footspeed isn't a huge issue when you move the ball fast enough by possession - I don't think Geelong or ourseleves are as fast as people say, we just move it well.

[alwaysadog]

I think they are a genuine threat. Their pacier players tend to be outside types, and their gameplan is very different to other sides in that they almost try to hug the boundary when they move the ball, which probably helps them switch the ball as the fat side gets fatter. Footspeed isn't a huge issue when you move the ball fast enough by possession - I don't think Geelong or ourseleves are as fast as people say, we just move it well.

You've got some very bad habits Moffra; first amongst them is that you think logically and in a context where hype has replaced substance you don't get carried away by the bullshit.

If you're not careful you'll become public enemy No.1, because you're not in love with the sound of your own voice and for you evidence seems to outweigh emotion.

On the other hand maybe logical thinking will make a comeback, but I’m not holding my breath. It’s been tried before but never actually succeeded in this context.

[LostDoggy]

I know Mofra he is in love with himself ;)

[The Adelaide Connection]

As mentioned, Collingwood have been able to plug there major weakness with the inclusion of Jolly and therefore you would think they would have to improve.

But something has got to give. I can't see Geelong and St. Kilda sliding too much, but the Dogs, Brisbane and Adelaide all join Collingwood as teams that you would think will improve on last year.

Adelaide in particular showed in the first half of thier Semi with Collingwood just how good they are going to be and then reminded us in the second half just how young a lot of their important players are. Players like Dangerfield and Tippet will become scary propositions this year.

I don't think any one team will bolt away at the top this year and the top four battle will be insane. Can't wait.

[mjp]

But something has got to give. I can't see Geelong and St. Kilda sliding too much, but the Dogs, Brisbane and Adelaide all join Collingwood as teams that you would think will improve on last year.


And I keep hearing that Hawthorn will bounce back.

So if they finish top 4, and we do, and Geelong, and Adelaide, and St Kilda...and Collingwood...not everyone can improve.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

And I keep hearing that Hawthorn will bounce back.

So if they finish top 4, and we do, and Geelong, and Adelaide, and St Kilda...and Collingwood...not everyone can improve.

Yep.

I think the competition will be as even as we've seen it though. I predict a decline for both Geelong and St. Kilda, but they'll still be tough to beat. Plenty of holes in Collingwood and Hawthorn's lists whilst Adelaide still rely a fair bit on the likes of Edwards, Stevens and McLeod - none of them getting younger. The same could be said for our forward half, so it makes 2010 an interesting season.

[Bulldog Revolution]

And I keep hearing that Hawthorn will bounce back.



The Hawks will need to have found some serious running power to break into the top 4 - they were very light on for guys who could run, carry the footy in 09. Regardless of the brilliance of Roughy and Buddy they desperately need runners. Burgoyne could make an enormous difference as at his best he is Cooneyesque.

Jolly is a huge recruit for the Pies. Minson smashing them in the 06 Finals must have finally sunk in. I expect they will be thereabouts again, after all their non-travelling draw almost gifts them a top 4 spot, so somewhere between 4-8.

However, there is something flaky/mentally fragile about the key players they are really pinning their hopes to: Cloke, Thomas, Davis, Medhurst. For them to really become contenders don't they need a bit more midfield explosiveness/brilliance?

[Mantis]

Jolly is a huge recruit for the Pies. Minson smashing them in the 06 Finals must have finally sunk in. I expect they will be thereabouts again, after all their non-travelling draw almost gifts them a top 4 spot, so somewhere between 4-8.

However, there is something flaky/mentally fragile about the key players they are really pinning their hopes to: Cloke, Thomas, Davis, Medhurst. For them to really become contenders don't they need a bit more midfield explosiveness/brilliance?

Agree with the Jolly call, he is a very good player and will give them a harder edge in the ruck.

In reference to your last question I agree that this is probably the major knock on them. The recruitment of Ball is a strange call, sure he is a hard nut, but he is limited in terms of his pace, endurance and kicking ability and at best he is an upgrade of O'Bree. Their 'brilliant' players are all inconsistent and I can't see that changing any time soon and this is a problem that they should have tried to rectify at the trade table, but I guess not all clubs want to trade with Collingwood.

Personally I am not all that concerend with them and think that after we successfully derailed their game plan in rd 22 that we will have their measure this year.... I guess by playing them twice in the first 10 rounds we will know if this is the case soon enough.

[Bulldog Revolution]

In reference to your last question I agree that this is probably the major knock on them. The recruitment of Ball is a strange call, sure he is a hard nut, but he is limited in terms of his pace, endurance and kicking ability and at best he is an upgrade of O'Bree.

Their 'brilliant' players are all inconsistent and I can't see that changing any time soon and this is a problem that they should have tried to rectify at the trade table, but I guess not all clubs want to trade with Collingwood.

Personally I am not all that concerend with them and think that after we successfully derailed their game plan in rd 22 that we will have their measure this year.... I guess by playing them twice in the first 10 rounds we will know if this is the case soon enough.

You've hit the OBree nail on the head. I guess they didn't give up much to get a slightly younger version of OBree, who clearly has a place in their game plan, but I likewise dont think it adds anything to their major weakness.

Clearly a Hudson a Minson ruck team wont be able to dominate Jolly in the same way they have dominated the Pies previously though.

Personally I think in Griffen, Higgins, Ward, Hill etc we have better young players who are both more likely to become the dynamic midfielders of tomorrow and more likely to become consistent contributors.

I'd like to knock them over twice in 2010 - that 1 point loss was a disappointing night out at the dome in 2009

[The Adelaide Connection]

And I keep hearing that Hawthorn will bounce back.

So if they finish top 4, and we do, and Geelong, and Adelaide, and St Kilda...and Collingwood...not everyone can improve.

Is improvement just about finishing higher up the tree when it comes to regular season? There is a possibility that Adelaide, Bulldogs, Collingwood and Brisbane all play better and more consistent footy and win more games but actually finish the regular season in the same spot or even lower.

I suspect there will be a small improvement from these teams and the Saints and Geelong will come back to the pack, making for a ridculous arm wrestle for a top four spot. The AFL may have a nightmare on their hands trying to schedule round 22.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the biggest improvement will come from the teams that weren't top six last year? I have a feeling that whilst still low on the ladder come seasons end, Melbourne for example will take more scalps and be much more competitive.

I think that West Coast, Port Adelaide and Hawthorn will be the biggest improvers and be 12 or so points better off come seasons end

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the biggest improvement will come from the teams that weren't top six last year? I have a feeling that whilst still low on the ladder come seasons end, Melbourne for example will take more scalps and be much more competitive.

I think that West Coast, Port Adelaide and Hawthorn will be the biggest improvers and be 12 or so points better off come seasons end

I think the competition as a whole should improve but there's always going to be 2-3 sides that will fall away badly after mid season.

I think North Melbourne might climb a few spots.

[mjp]

Is improvement just about finishing higher up the tree when it comes to regular season?

When it comes to the top end, YES. There are no 'moral victories' for premiership aspirants.

[mighty_west]

Collingwood = care factor zero! ;)

That said, i believe they'll still be around the mark, Jolly is a massive inclusion for them, top 4 for mine.

I also think Luke Ball will also be a very good inclusion, perhaps they can transform him into a tagger, he doesn't have the pace, but i don't believe you need to if you have the smarts, i also think they should try Cloke down back, no dramas with his reading of the play, he kicks like a mule just about every second shot for goal, bit of a liability i believe up forward.

[The Adelaide Connection]

When it comes to the top end, YES. There are no 'moral victories' for premiership aspirants.

I didn't mean in a 'moral victory' sort of way, but I think there is certainly the possibility that a team improves but ends up finishing in the same place or lower. I think you are talking more about being able to call the year 'successful'. If we were to finish third again I would agree that we could not call the year more successful even if we take 3 or 4 more wins away from the minor rounds, but you could argue that the team have improved depending on the style of footy they play and the results.

The difference between a premiership can be as little as a bit of luck, a fleeting decision, an amazing/horrible passage of play or an 'off' quarter. I would argue that the '08 Geelong team improved on the '07 team and if the two teams played each other 100 times the '08 model would come out way on top.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Collingwood = care factor zero! ;)

That said, i believe they'll still be around the mark, Jolly is a massive inclusion for them, top 4 for mine.

I also think Luke Ball will also be a very good inclusion, perhaps they can transform him into a tagger, he doesn't have the pace, but i don't believe you need to if you have the smarts, i also think they should try Cloke down back, no dramas with his reading of the play, he kicks like a mule just about every second shot for goal, bit of a liability i believe up forward.

I agree on Ball, but I think Cloke would be a bigger liability in defence than he is up forward. His kicking isn't great but you would rather him shank one out of bounds from a set shot than turning it over across half back.

Edit: Should i say Collingwood would rather, I think we would rather love it!

[mighty_west]

I agree on Ball, but I think Cloke would be a bigger liability in defence than he is up forward. His kicking isn't great but you would rather him shank one out of bounds from a set shot than turning it over across half back.

Edit: Should i say Collingwood would rather, I think we would rather love it!

Cloke only has to land it 10 or so metres away from his team mate on the field, when he pushes up ther field anyway, he doesn't seem to have a major issue with finding team mates, its the set shots in front that really play with his mind, Chris Tarrant was the same.

[mjp]

The difference between a premiership can be as little as a bit of luck, a fleeting decision, an amazing/horrible passage of play or an 'off' quarter. I would argue that the '08 Geelong team improved on the '07 team and if the two teams played each other 100 times the '08 model would come out way on top.

You must know I agree with all of that...but at the top end it simply doesn't matter as it is purely about results. Those teams out of the 6 or so perceived contenders who 'miss out' or fall down the ladder will end up sacking coaches, trading players and generally tearing down the walls.

[Mofra]

...whilst Adelaide still rely a fair bit on the likes of Edwards, Stevens and McLeod - none of them getting younger. The same could be said for our forward half, so it makes 2010 an interesting season.
The difference is Adelaide will just break even if those three maintain their 2009 output - Barry is an addition to our side so will improve our on field output. I expect him to be an upgrade to Welsh in 2009. I think some of the "outside" attention on the age of our forwards is selling the Bulldogs a bit short.