NAB Cup - Other Teams Games

[The Coon Dog]

As most people thought West Coast a home were much too strong for Essendon, running out 35 point winners.

Anyone see much of the game?

I saw bits & pieces. Right on half time the ball was touched by an Essendon defender towards the goal post. It went between the goal umpires legs onto the post & stopped just before the goal line. Andrew Embley then soccered it through. The goal umpire said the balled stopped without crossing the line & awarded a goal. It was shown on the big screen & a field umpire saw it clearly hit the post & ran in & the decision to award the goal was overturned.

So, the right decision ensued. I suppose it begs the question of a) video or b) '3rd umpire' being used. I don't mind if it means they get a decision right, but I wouldn't like to see them use it here & there. I think it has to be consistent in its use.

[LostDoggy]

Sorry Baz I didn't see it but its really difficult to get enthusiastic about the NAB cup especially when your team isn't playing.
The result is pretty much what I expected. Essendon take the NAB cup seriously but they aren't much chop and in WA, it was always going to be tough for them. Hear Natanui played well, is that just the media hype as I don't think much of the Bombers ruck stocks?

[LostDoggy]

I thought in the NAB cup, if it post and remains on the field, its still in play?

[GVGjr]

I watched a fair bit of it and two things stood out to me.
Essendon still are still playing an overly attacking brand of footy to be a top side.
West Coast will be one of the bigger improvers this season. They are a very strong bodied side and with a good balance of talls and smalls.

[mighty_west]

I thought in the NAB cup, if it post and remains on the field, its still in play?

Thats what i thought as well, unless they scrapped that rule.

[mighty_west]

I was out at a family BBQ last night, kind of bobbed my head in from time to time between drinks to have a bit of a look, wasn't overally interested, just more interested to have a look at the new players, such as Mark Williams at Essendon etc.

[Go_Dogs]

West Coast will be one of the bigger improvers this season. They are a very strong bodied side and with a good balance of talls and smalls.

They have a terrific development program out there don't they?

Their list is in terrific shape, and I certainly won't be surprised to see them finish in the top 8 and knock off a few more highly rated opponents.

[The Coon Dog]

I thought in the NAB cup, if it post and remains on the field, its still in play?

Not any longer, they scrapped it.

[Before I Die]

I was half watching for most of the first 3/4s as I did other things. I did hear the commentators say after the goal/behind reversal, that the decision can be reversed so long as play hasn't re-commenced. I didn't pick up whether it was based on the replay or simply another umpire out on the field.

As for Naitanui, he is going to be very, very good. Very big and strong, huge leap, good pressure skills and incredibly athletic. If his attitude is right and injuries don't play a part, he is quite likely to be one of the greats.

[GVGjr]

They have a terrific development program out there don't they?

Their list is in terrific shape, and I certainly won't be surprised to see them finish in the top 8 and knock off a few more highly rated opponents.


No doubt. I like the way the can fill the flanks with stronger players which is a great contrast to us as a rule. If Kennedy can kick 50 plus goals then they can be strong contender this season.

[LostDoggy]

West Coast will be one of the bigger improvers this season. .

I agree, got them in my top 8. Theres going to be about 4 or 5 teams playing for 7th & 8th I believe.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Eagles foot skills are still ordinary. Masten gets a lot of the ball but he turns it over far too often. Ebert is similar but they do look very fit. I'm still not sold on the Eagles as I think they have a number of weaknesses, but they'll probably still improve and be a difficult proposition at WA.

The good signs for them are obviously Naitanui who looks very exciting. Always in the contest and has a rare ability to always be in control of a footy even if it's not in his direct grasp. Pressures better than any current ruck running around and his disposal was very good last night too. Heard he's already benching 130! His actual ruck work is OK but needs work. However at this stage - I'd be disappointed if I was a Melbourne supporter...

Kennedy was a real stand out too. Stepped up last year but I expect him to be a real force in 2010. His engine's bigger, he's got plenty of size, he was working up to the wings and doubling back. Not to mention, nice hands and a good kick for goal. He's going to be a real player.

I'd be worried if I was Essendon. Aside from Williams and Monfries their forward half looks one of the worst on paper. Ryder and Hille will have to spend time up there but they desperately need Gumbleton or Neagle to fire. Pears is a fine key defender but Hooker is more suited to the third tall. Means Hurley has to give them a hand, taking away from what he could offer as a FF/CHF.

[Throughandthrough]

As for Naitanui, he is going to be very, very good. Very big and strong, huge leap, good pressure skills and incredibly athletic. If his attitude is right and injuries don't play a part, he is quite likely to be one of the greats.


I logged on to Super Coach at half time and added Naitanui to my team. He was truly incredible; esp. with his attack on the ball and fierce tackling.

Essendon were poo. Stand out for them was Jobe Watson.

[Go_Dogs]

I logged on to Super Coach at half time and added Naitanui to my team.

According to the HS website, he scored a whopping 178 SC points last night!




No doubt. I like the way the can fill the flanks with stronger players which is a great contrast to us as a rule. If Kennedy can kick 50 plus goals then they can be strong contender this season.

Yep. They really do prefer the bigger-bodied types who are still athletic enough to compete with the running, but have great contested ball winning skills.

I think you are spot on that they really need to find a goal kicker, and if Kennedy can do that (and the signs are very promising) it will certainly help them a lot.




Eagles foot skills are still ordinary. Masten gets a lot of the ball but he turns it over far too often. Ebert is similar but they do look very fit.

83% disposal efficiency last night apparently. I honestly haven't seen a bunch of Masten, but I think generally the Eagles have some fairly good users of the ball. Hurn had a bit of an off night, but he's usually very good and a couple of their kids coming through are noted for their exceptional foot skills in Luke Shuey and Ash Smith.

Will be interesting to watch how they all develop over the course of the season.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

83% disposal efficiency last night apparently. I honestly haven't seen a bunch of Masten, but I think generally the Eagles have some fairly good users of the ball. Hurn had a bit of an off night, but he's usually very good and a couple of their kids coming through are noted for their exceptional foot skills in Luke Shuey and Ash Smith.

Essendon didn't give much resistance aside from the first quarter, and when they did, Eagles turned the ball over quite a bit. Against the top 8-10 sides, players like Masten and Ebert will be crucified if they don't get it right.

Anyone watching the Port Adelaide/Crows game? I think the Power would be pretty happy with the performance of a number of their young players. Hitchcook looks very good, Thompson has done some good things and Stewart is a presence up forward. Pearce still looks to be struggling though. For all his skill and pace, he doesn't do nearly enough.

Crows are a little behind in terms of preparation, but Walker has beefed up and looks like he could be in for a solid season. Impressed with Sellar in the back half too - I wouldn't of thought he had the mobility or smarts to play in such a position but it's an experiment that looks worthy so far.

[G-Mo77]

I watched most of the SA game today and I gotta tell you the umpires were disgusting! It's pre-season so every one involved is ironing out the creases but the 3 today would really want to improve A LOT before they umpire again.

[The Coon Dog]

I watched most of the SA game today and I gotta tell you the umpires were disgusting! It's pre-season so every one involved is ironing out the creases but the 3 today would really want to improve A LOT before they umpire again.

Didn't see much of it, but I did like the Port Adelaide jumper.

[Go_Dogs]

Port would be pretty happy with how their day went. Krakouer had a great game, and a few of their other kids played well. MJP would have been proud of Mitch Banner's effort today, got a lot of the ball and kicked a couple of goals.

Crows a little disappointing, and it must be of some concern that their best player today was Goodwin, who is also their oldest player. Not sure why their preparation seems so un-advanced, but perhaps they are aiming to build up more slowly this year.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

After that first quarter, does it still amaze everyone else at how bad the Tigers are? Simple skills by hand and foot under little pressure they continually turn over. It's really hard to see them improving in the near future.

[G-Mo77]

After that first quarter, does it still amaze everyone else at how bad the Tigers are? Simple foot skills by hand and foot under little pressure they continually turn over. It's really hard to see them improving in the near future.

I think a long hard road is ahead for the Tigers and I couldn't be happier about it!

[boydogs]

According to the HS website, he scored a whopping 178 SC points last night!

Yeah the points allocation is down in the NAB as well - they are only giving out 87.5% of the points they normally would as only 87.5% of normal game time is played. So that score is really a 203

[Throughandthrough]

Hey!

Who was it on this site that suggested Cameron Hitchcock was worth looking at to draft?

I (i mean he) must be a genious :)

[Before I Die]

Isn't it great when a plan comes together.

That is not what the Richmond hierachy would be saying right now. Wallace wanted 5 years to give his plan the time it needed to succeed. I doubt if Hardwick would be thanking him for his planning and forethought right now.

[mjp]

MJP would have been proud of Mitch Banner's effort today, got a lot of the ball and kicked a couple of goals.



Yep - I taught him all the good things he did.

[Go_Dogs]

Yep - I taught him all the good things he did.

Without question :D

[Bulldog Revolution]

I'm still not sold on the Eagles as I think they have a number of weaknesses, but they'll probably still improve and be a difficult proposition at WA.

The good signs for them are obviously Naitanui who looks very exciting.



I watched most of the game but turned away for 20 minutes when the eagles made their run, and after I turned back it was still hard to see how they did it, as I didn't think they played that well

Very scrappy game. Essendons forward line was a worry but I thought their two young ruckman looked promising for the future

Naitanui is super below his feet, just great at gathering a loose ball for a guy that height, but I am not sure if he does the big man stuff all that well i.e centre square ruckwork

Hawks looked good, Tigers very poor - the commentary team raved about Martin but he was a beacon on a dreadful night for them

For the Hawks their prime movers looked good, but Suckling and Lisle looked good, and they have a lot of good players to go back into that side; Bateman, Gibson, Burgoyne, Osbourne, Birchall, Young etc

[LostDoggy]

How did Skipper go?

[Mantis]

For the Hawks their prime movers looked good, but Suckling and Lisle looked good, and they have a lot of good players to go back into that side; Bateman, Gibson, Burgoyne, Osbourne, Birchall, Young etc

He played last night.

[LostDoggy]

Didn't see Jordy McMahon playing yesterday..has he been dropped already? ;)

[LostDoggy]

Watching some of the hawks vs tigers on now. How bad is Matthew Lloyd's commentating? Sucking up to hawthorn, repeating himself, inane and obvious special comments

[Swoop]

I feel sorry for Hardwick as it will be Wallace's wooden spoon he inherits, not too much to look forward to for their supporters.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Watching some of the hawks vs tigers on now. How bad is Matthew Lloyd's commentating? Sucking up to hawthorn, repeating himself, inane and obvious special comments

That got a little hard to listen to, didn't it?

[AndrewP6]

Watching some of the hawks vs tigers on now. How bad is Matthew Lloyd's commentating? Sucking up to hawthorn, repeating himself, inane and obvious special comments

Yeah, he's not flash... but then, Rohan Smith is continuing his Johnno obsession in 2010...

[aker39]

Good to see Terry has left the Tigers in great shape.

[Dry Rot]

Good to see Terry has left the Tigers in great shape.

They were utter poo. Dunno why I stayed up to watch that crap.

Also made it hard to calibrate where the Hawks are at.

[The Underdog]

I feel sorry for Hardwick as it will be Wallace's wooden spoon he inherits, not too much to look forward to for their supporters.

They have to take the step back now to step forward, unfortunately they'll hit bottom when GC and West Sydney White Elephants are monopolizing draft picks. I hate Richmond but I've got a soft spot for Hardwick and think he's the right guy for the job. Unfortunately for him, they probably won't give him enough time to finish the job.

[Remi Moses]

Watched most of the Tiges V Hawks and out on SEN at halftime to get some feral reaction to the score. Talking of conspiracy theorists on that stupid interpretation of the 5 metre rule. One bloke claiming it was a conspiracy against Richmond:rolleyes:No I'd say there is a conspiracy against decent skills at Richmond:p

[MrMahatma]

I'm with you. hope they give Hardwick time. I really would love to know
what Wallace's 5 yr plan was. Can't help but think we dodged a bullet by him walking out.

Hardwick will be good in time. He's already recruiting a different mind
of player. I hate Richmond so much and enjoy them losing, but feel for their fans. It's going to be about 7-8 years before they have a shot at the flag - best case scenario IMO.

[The Coon Dog]

I hate Richmond so much and enjoy them losing, but feel for their fans.

You're a better man than me Gunga Din, can't stand 'em, even in small doses.

[chef]

You're a better man than me Gunga Din, can't stand 'em, even in small doses.

This year is going to be even more enjoyable with the Tigers down the bottom of the ladder again.

[Remi Moses]

I'll bet London to a Brick we will not be hearing their ex-coach pumping up his own tyres in regards to their list!!!

[mjp]

This year is going to be even more enjoyable with the Tigers down the bottom of the ladder again.

Saints and Maggies might be alright though.

Great comeback by Collingwood...St Kilda were pretty lucky in the end but you still have to kick them.

[chef]

Saints and Maggies might be alright though.

Great comeback by Collingwood...St Kilda were pretty lucky in the end but you still have to kick them.

How was Schneider allowed to be standing by himself 25 meters out from goal directly in front? I would have thought man of man would have been more appropriate at that stage than zoning(with massive gaps).

[mjp]

Well, someone assumed Armitage was having a shot and it all started from there.

[LostDoggy]

Spoke to a mate who's a one eyed Collingwood supporter and expected nothing less than 'We lost by a point over a bs free kick'. I was at a party and hadn't seen any of the game..

Watched it this morning...weak free kick maybe, but they turned it into a very simple kick with Schneider all by himself..typical Collingwood supporters already blaming the umpires and the real season hasnt even started yet.

[Swoop]

Well, someone assumed Armitage was having a shot and it all started from there.
Just on Armitage, he needs to refine his skills but at this early stage despite Ball's positive performance last night he does appear to be a ready made replacement in the same role.

[comrade]

Just on Armitage, he needs to refine his skills but at this early stage despite Ball's positive performance last night he does appear to be a ready made replacement in the same role.

I always thought Armitage was a touch slow, but he ran well last night and his clearance work was really impressive (finished with 9 I think, with most of them effective centre clearances).

The loss of Ball won't affect the Saints on field at all.

[comrade]

Lewis Jetta's first touch at the highest level was pure class. There was a reason why I yelled at the TV when he was taken just before our first pick....

EDIT: Wowee...

[Mantis]

Lewis Jetta's first touch at the highest level was pure class. There was a reason why I yelled at the TV when he was taken just before our first pick....

EDIT: Wowee...

You were saying.

[comrade]

Rohan has also looks the goods.

[mjp]

I still say Sydney improve out of sight. I haven't seen the game, but seeing the comments about Jetta and seeing Dennis-Lane in the best just confirms my opinion on those two players...

They will be alright!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I still say Sydney improve out of sight. I haven't seen the game, but seeing the comments about Jetta and seeing Dennis-Lane in the best just confirms my opinion on those two players...

They will be alright!

Jetta looked very, very good. Quick, smart and skillful. I hope Roos plays him because I read a few months ago that he didn't expect Jetta to play many if any. Going by past players (Vezpremi for example) that wouldn't be completely far off the truth. However - Jetta looks ready to play.

Dennis-Lane didn't do a lot IMO, but was a touch unlucky. He moves really well and I can see him having an impact.

Swans have quite a few good young players. O'Dwyer showed some good signs and one or two others caught my eye. If White and Bradshaw can have solid reasons they might be OK.

[Remi Moses]

Jetta was brilliant and what a great draft from Sydney Rowan looks like a young Brendan Goddard,Jetta reminds me of Cyril Rioli.On that game anyone notice riewoldt getting a dodgy 50 for a certain goal,and yet tonights game in the 3rd quarter the exact same thing happened to Simon Wiggins and NO 50 METRE PENALTY!!!! Talk about protected spiecies that German Diver:rolleyes:

[chef]

Brock McLean had a night to forget, he wouldn't shake Kirk's hand before the bounce and then couldn't get the ball all game.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Brock McLean had a night to forget, he wouldn't shake Kirk's hand before the bounce and then couldn't get the ball all game.

That looked pretty bad IMO. I was glad to see Kirk give him the run around.

Carlton are stupid for using Pick 11 on McLean anyway. Aside from some grunt work, he offers very little else.

[Go_Dogs]

That looked pretty bad IMO. I was glad to see Kirk give him the run around.

Carlton are stupid for using Pick 11 on McLean anyway. Aside from some grunt work, he offers very little else.

I actually don't mind Brock McLean, and a couple of years ago thought he was one of the more promising types running around - particularly from his draft year. At the end of the day though, you are spot on. Slow inside mids are a dime a dozen, and the 2009 drafts in particular saw a large number of inside mids available, quite a few who already had senior level experience in the WAFL or SANFL.

Given Carlton's strengths and weaknesses, it sure was an interesting choice. They look set for a fairly long year. :)

[LostDoggy]

Haha bad handball from Mooney else Pods would of got his first AFL goal

[ledge]

Nth look a new team, good stuff, Geelong cant possibly be happy with this, not like them at all even if it is NAB cup.

[chef]

It was only a matter of time before Geelong turned it on.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

North looked OK/ Some positive signs moving forward for them. A number of their younger players showed something today. Wright is a bit similar to Dale Thomas whilst Anthony was prolific. Robbie Tarrant did OK too.

Their forward half is shaping nicely as well. Petrie and Hale as the two talls, Warren looked very good as a third foil and then the likes of Campbell, Thomas (When he returns) and Harvey.

The midfield still seems to be their weakness but they'll be hoping Wells, Ziebell, Cunnington and Bastinac can work together.

[ledge]

I thought North didnt back the tall forwards enough at times.
I think Hawkins is primed now, big body time to make his mark.

[GVGjr]

If we get past the Hawks we have a great shot of winning this.

[The Coon Dog]

If we get past the Hawks we have a great shot of winning this.

If we do beat Hawthorn, we then play the winner of West Coast v Port Adelaide.

The way the AFL have the fixture on their website says that match will be played at Etihad or AAMI (not Subi), so I'd prefer West Coast to win, guarantees a game then at Etihad.

[GVGjr]

If we do beat Hawthorn, we then play the winner of West Coast v Port Adelaide.

The way the AFL have the fixture on their website says that match will be played at Etihad or AAMI (not Subi), so I'd prefer West Coast to win, guarantees an game then at Etihad.


Good point. Just watching the Freo and Melbourne game. The Dees are very poor at the moment.

[Hotdog60]

Good point. Just watching the Freo and Melbourne game. The Dees are very poor at the moment.

I thought so too, I couldn't be bothered watching anymore.

[LostDoggy]

I went to the Nth Geel game today/tonight, mainly to watch Podsy of course....but anotherplayer i was watching was Ben Warren of Nth...thought he played pretty well and hes in for a ig year this year i reckon....
Awesome to see Pods make a big bump, even if it was a it high :) ...... and also great to see him kick a goal.....im not used to only seeing him kick one tho...but im happy he managed one...could had a couple more tho.....

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Gee.

Melbourne would be disappointed with that display. Looked really ordinary, their decision making and foot skills were poor and they didn't seem to have much of a game plan. For a side that has only won a handful of games over the past three seasons, this is the type of game they should be looking to really build on. That wasn't the case.

The pressure will be on Bailey if he doesn't produce something a bit better this year.

[jazzadogs]

I was surprised by how poor the Demon's were, I had expected a lot of improvement from them this year. Morton played well from what I saw. It will be interesting to see how consistent Jurrah is able to be, as he did barely anything today (admittedly was cramping a lot in the second half).

Freo didn't set the world on fire, but were still a level above the demons for the majority of the game.

Was very impressed with North, Warren looked the goods, as did Anthony and Adams.

Cats would be disappointed, but it's still 7 months until they have to be playing their absolute best footy. I wouldn't be too stressed if I was a Geelong supporter.

[Remi Moses]

North have been primed for months for this game,where geelong are 5 weeks behind in fitness and preparation. North will be good early but will fade when big bodies come into play. What an appalling effort from melbourne wouldn't you think with all those early picks there would be some energy and excitement. I've ssaid it before Bailey is a cloned version of Rohde:cool:

[chef]

I thought so too, I couldn't be bothered watching anymore.

Both teams made a heap of mistakes(I ended up falling asleep during the 3rd quarter). Melbourne have been overrated because of the draft picks they have had.

[Go_Dogs]

Both teams made a heap of mistakes(I ended up falling asleep during the 3rd quarter). Melbourne have been overrated because of the draft picks they have had.

Yep. They certainly have the talent there now, but as we know, talented draft picks can take a while to arrive, and some of them simply don't. I think they'll still improve on last year, and probably get a bit better as the year progresses, but they still have a fair way to go.

[Swoop]

For all Melbourne's picks they only have 1 genuine forward key position prospect coming through in Watts who is by their own admission 3-4 years away. I expected more from them last night, not a lot of positive signs of improvement in that performance.

[LostDoggy]

Ok for those who watched the Freo Melbourne game, cauld you tell me how Michael Barlow went......I dont have foxtel, and im spewin i missed his 1st game.......Was a huuuuugggeeee fan of his during his Werribee days....

[Go_Dogs]

Ok for those who watched the Freo Melbourne game, cauld you tell me how Michael Barlow went......

29 disposals. Looks like he went alright.

[Go_Dogs]

An interesting tid bit - how are Freo going to get all of their rookies onto the senior list?

De Boer and Pearce both look the goods, Barlow had a great hit out yesterday, and young Van Berlo is also coming along in leaps and bounds. I'm actually pretty surprised that De Boer and Pearce weren't upgraded at the close of last season after both having fairly decent first years.

[Swoop]

An interesting tid bit - how are Freo going to get all of their rookies onto the senior list?

De Boer and Pearce both look the goods, Barlow had a great hit out yesterday, and young Van Berlo is also coming along in leaps and bounds. I'm actually pretty surprised that De Boer and Pearce weren't upgraded at the close of last season after both having fairly decent first years.
Not to mention Silvagni who held his own as well.

[comrade]

If the first round of NAB Cup action is anything to go by, we’ll be seeing a lot more mature age players picked up via the national and rookie draft.

Dennis-Lane, Jetta, Moles, Barlow and Silvagni all looked comfortable at the highest level (yell out if I’ve missed anyone glaring).

I hope our recruiting network stretches beyond the underage competitions and the VFL. A real focus must be placed on the SANFL and in particular the WAFL, or else we’re behind the eight ball to unearth some potential (and inexpensive) gems.

[Go_Dogs]

A real focus must be placed on the SANFL and in particular the WAFL, or else we’re behind the eight ball to unearth some potential (and inexpensive) gems.

Agreed.

If Alex Stopp has another great year for Norwood, he'll be one to add to that list (although I must admit I'm still a little astonished he didn't go last year).

[Go_Dogs]

Not to mention Silvagni who held his own as well.

Yep, missed him.

Geez they have drafted well over the past 2 years...now they just need to sort out their list management.

[LostDoggy]

I still cant see both Melbourne and Fremantle out of the bottom 4-5..

Even if Freo's forward line seems to have improved they did only play Melbourne..this was a pretty lackluster match (as expected) to finish off round 1 of the Nab Cup..

[mjp]

Ok for those who watched the Freo Melbourne game, cauld you tell me how Michael Barlow went......I dont have foxtel, and im spewin i missed his 1st game.......Was a huuuuugggeeee fan of his during his Werribee days....

He was OK. Seemed a bit slow on occasion and kicking not super...I wonder if he and Hasleby can play in the same side? Worked pretty hard though.

Melbourne are in real trouble. Completely overmatched. If their plan is to stick Liam Jurrah one-out in the forward 50m arc and hope for the best then they are destined for a lot of pain. They seem to have a few talented kids (Morton esp.) but they are kind of 'tweeners in basketball terms - not really on-ballers, not really kpp's. They might end up with a team of 190cm runners, but that is 2-3 years away...I can't see how Bailey survives based on last night.

Freo might end up being OK - Subi is an advantage for them and winning 6-7/12 home games (play west coast twice, so subi 12 times) is probably not out of the question.

[comrade]

Melbourne are in real trouble. Completely overmatched. If their plan is to stick Liam Jurrah one-out in the forward 50m arc and hope for the best then they are destined for a lot of pain.


Seeing him struggle with cramp all night must raise concerns regarding his ability to get through a full AFL season. He must have run less than 1km for the night.

[GVGjr]

I still cant see both Melbourne and Fremantle bottom 4-5..

Even if Freo's forward line seems to have improved they did only play Melbourne..this was a pretty lackluster match (as expected) to finish off round 1 of the Nab Cup..

Melbourne were shocking last night. They looked unfit and their skill level was non existent.

For a team that started their pre-season very early, they aren't in good shape.

[LostDoggy]

Melbourne were shocking last night. They looked unfit and their skill level was non existent.

For a team that started their pre-season very early, they aren't in good shape.

Still reckon this pressure on Bailey is a year too late. They didn't show anything at all for the entirety of the last two seasons -- I don't care if you're going for priority picks, two years is a bloody long time to actually not improve any aspect of your list and have what few 'stars' on your list look increasingly disillusioned and directionless (and then have the lot of them leave one way or another with a whimper). Hapless people and brand management, with the only bright spots (recruitment) gained through no merit on Bailey's part and actually due to being shite.

Melbourne has been going backwards at at rate of knots, and I think Bailey has been given a free ride for too long now and it's about time someone applied a blowtorch to his methods, whatever they are.

[Go_Dogs]

Melbourne has been going backwards at at rate of knots, and I think Bailey has been given a free ride for too long now and it's about time someone applied a blowtorch to his methods, whatever they are.

I'm under the impression that Bailey is very highly regarded for his work developing younger players, and given the shape and direction Melbourne are currently taking, and let's face it, will be continuing to take for the next few years, they are happy to have him on board.

I've got an interesting article from a Football Record where Bailey discusses (albeit in a pretty simplified way) his ideas on managing younger players, and he certainly seems to know what he's on about. Every young kid is going to be inconsistent, some will develop quickly, some will take a bit longer and some simply won't make it, so re-building from where they are is not exactly an easy task.

I still think it's probably a year or even 2 too early to judge him, but I guess we'll see what happens over the course of this season. They need to show some signs definitely, but expecting dramatic improvements based on a handful of kids aged 20 or less, would be like us basing our expectations on the likes of Cordy, Jones, Roughead, Howard and Tutt.

They've certainly drafted some kids with a great chance of making it, but like Cooney, and Griffen and Higgins and every high draft pick we've ever had, they take a few years to start to make a serious impact.

[LostDoggy]

Melbourne were shocking last night. They looked unfit and their skill level was non existent.

For a team that started their pre-season very early, they aren't in good shape.

Yeah I fixed my post I meant to say 'I cant see melbourne and freo out of the bottom 4'. Melbourne are looking just as bad as any other year if not worse..even if it is only the Nab Cup

[LostDoggy]

I'm under the impression that Bailey is very highly regarded for his work developing younger players, and given the shape and direction Melbourne are currently taking, and let's face it, will be continuing to take for the next few years, they are happy to have him on board.

I've got an interesting article from a Football Record where Bailey discusses (albeit in a pretty simplified way) his ideas on managing younger players, and he certainly seems to know what he's on about. Every young kid is going to be inconsistent, some will develop quickly, some will take a bit longer and some simply won't make it, so re-building from where they are is not exactly an easy task.

I still think it's probably a year or even 2 too early to judge him, but I guess we'll see what happens over the course of this season. They need to show some signs definitely, but expecting dramatic improvements based on a handful of kids aged 20 or less, would be like us basing our expectations on the likes of Cordy, Jones, Roughead, Howard and Tutt.

They've certainly drafted some kids with a great chance of making it, but like Cooney, and Griffen and Higgins and every high draft pick we've ever had, they take a few years to start to make a serious impact.


Hi Griffen#16, well-thought out post, thanks for your reply.

I don't doubt that Bailey brings some things to the table -- every one at that level bloody well better anyway -- but from what you've said he probably sounds like he would be better suited to a development position rather than head coach in any case.

There is FAR more to building a list (and selling your club) than just developing kids. As you've alluded to, kids are a hit-and-miss proposition anyway, which is precisely why it can't be the full monty when it comes to taking your club forward. Several teams have gone down the 'youth' route, most notably Hawthorn, but even in the depths of their 'bottoming out' period, they showed a lot of development, especially in the areas of physical competitiveness and learning a game plan. They also had a clear plan for their seniors such as Crawford. Essendon, too, have gone down a 'youth'-oriented path with Knights but are nowhere as dire as Melbourne are despite a similar starting position, because they've balanced it with a recruitment and senior player management strategy to back the kids up, and they are also playing to a clear tactical philosophy (for better or worse). Rocket also did this when he first took over, by teaching the players how to play one-on-one, then developing a running game around the (then) list's strengths. West Coast and Adelaide started rebuilding later than Melbourne but have zoomed through their development cycles pretty quickly and are back on the up with kids recruited in the past two to three years.

With Melbourne, apart from taking the best draft picks available (again, no credit due to Bailey for this apart from so-called tanking), there has been no discernible direction in any other department. The treatment of their senior players and veterans has been deplorable, so much so that their favourite sons have just been retired unceremoniously, dropped back into the VFL until they disappear, or left to rot on the injury table until they are nearly begging to get traded, all in a bid for priority/early picks. There has been absolutely no sense of a coherent game plan for the best part of two years, chopping and changing from one week to the next -- it's basically a Dr.Frankenstein version of a traditional structure, except with absolutely no personnel for those positions. The only bright spot in 24 months has been an inspired cameo by Jurrah for two quarters last year.

This is without even taking into account that the best development environment for a kid is actually a successful environment (or at least a balanced list), one where you are surrounded by hardened, success-oriented senior players and veterans, which is what has made Joel Selwood and Callan Ward look so good in their first couple of years.

--

ps. The difference to Hawthorn, St. Kilda or the Dogs (examples of teams who have benefited from 'bottoming out' to some extent), is the complete lack of a balanced playing group at Melbourne to give the kids time to develop -- Hawthorn had Crawf and others (recruited Dew and Croad), the Saints had Gehrig and Harvey et al for a while, and the Dogs had Johnno, Grant, Smith, West and a whole bunch of players from the 1999 draft (Murph et al) to fill out the list. Melbourne have absolutely zero quality apart from their early draft picks, so unless Bailey is aiming to bottom out for the next six years and shoot for a premiership in 2020 I have no idea what he's doing -- it's almost like he's taken the most simplistic version of a fashionable philosophy (play the kids!) and stuck to it to the exclusion of every other principle of building a successful club, most notably HOPE.

[boydogs]

Nice post Lantern as always


...and stuck to it to the exclusion of every other principle of building a successful club, most notably HOPE.

Please explain?

[Go_Dogs]

Hi Griffen#16, well-thought out post, thanks for your reply.

I don't doubt that Bailey brings some things to the table -- every one at that level bloody well better anyway -- but from what you've said he probably sounds like he would be better suited to a development position rather than head coach in any case.

This could well be the case. I actually had written in my post - "perhaps he's not a senior coach though" but decided to remove it. Yes, his strengths perhaps lie with developing younger players, as a lot of his experience comes from doing so, but at the same time he's worked at Essendon and Port Adelaide, and as such has studied under some pretty successful coaches. At the end of the day, he has a team of experts to assist him, but I guess the buck does stop with Bailey.

They also had a clear plan for their seniors such as Crawford. Essendon, too, have gone down a 'youth'-oriented path with Knights but are nowhere as dire as Melbourne are despite a similar starting position, because they've balanced it with a recruitment and senior player management strategy to back the kids up, and they are also playing to a clear tactical philosophy (for better or worse). Rocket also did this when he first took over, by teaching the players how to play one-on-one, then developing a running game around the (then) list's strengths. West Coast and Adelaide started rebuilding later than Melbourne but have zoomed through their development cycles pretty quickly and are back on the up with kids recruited in the past two to three years.

The issue I have with the shape of Melbourne's list, is that all of their senior and established players are pretty useless. As it stands, they have Cameron Bruce, Brad Green and James McDonald as their senior players. Hardly an inspiring bunch, and their 24-28 bracket doesn't fair much better. Inheriting a list as shot as theirs is an unenviable task in my opinion. Essendon still had Lloyd, Lucas, Fletcher, recruited Mal Michael etc. They also have a more consistent bunch of 24-28 year olds, including McVeigh, Watson etc.

As far as Adelaide and West Coast go, well Adelaide haven't really re-built. They've drafted a few kids, but they are still heavily reliant on the old hands of Goodwin, Edwards, McLeod, Burton, and Doughty. The only player they've acquired through a trade in recent history is Brad Symes, and he's hardly set the world on fire. They've certainly had better development out of guys like Tippett and Knights, but Bailey can hardly be blamed for the stalled development of Sylvia and Bate, both guys who had fairly good years last year anyway and appear on the way up (finally!), and those are the players who should have been dictating their improvement at this stage. Melbourne have recruited MacDonald this year too, who should add some improvement to their side, so they aren't oblivious to the requirement to recruit senior players.

West Coast are a different kettle of fish, as they have just drafted and developed players at a rate unequalled by any other side. Even when they were the top dog in 2005 and 2006, they were developing a bunch of quality kids including Hurn, Le Cras and a few others. They have then received a whole bunch of very high draft picks, but have still dipped down the ladder for a few years - even with half the side being premiership players and the other half being fairly high draft selections. If they'd finished top 4 the past few years, I'd agree - but in reality they haven't come THAT far since they started their re-building. This year should be another step up, but that's because of very successful recruiting and development of players that has been going on for a while. They did top up with a couple of ready made players like Priddis, who have provided some short term relief, but I'm not convinced such a player will play a large role in them taking the next step. Melbourne haven't really gone for the Priddis type, and don't have a core of premiership players.

There has been absolutely no sense of a coherent game plan for the best part of two years, chopping and changing from one week to the next -- it's basically a Dr.Frankenstein version of a traditional structure, except with absolutely no personnel for those positions. The only bright spot in 24 months has been an inspired cameo by Jurrah for two quarters last year.

I honestly have not watched enough of Melbourne to comment on the intricacies of their game plan, so you could well be spot on here. The cattle aren't flash, and I have no idea what sort of game plan would suit them. I do quite like the game plan we utilised with a young list - play on, take them on, and Essendon are doing the same now. You will win some games, and get thumped by the sides with a harder edge, but at least you are developing the offensive weaponry required to win a flag. The defensive/contested side will develop as players get stronger, fitter and have more confidence in their bodies. It will be interesting to see how they go about it this year. You don't want them to get thumped every week taking the game on, but at the same time you don't want to put the clamps on young players attacking flair. It's a balancing act.

This is without even taking into account that the best development environment for a kid is actually a successful environment (or at least a balanced list), one where you are surrounded by hardened, success-oriented senior players and veterans, which is what has made Joel Selwood and Callan Ward look so good in their first couple of years.

No disputing that a successful environment and team makes the transition easier for younger kids. But not sure there is a lot Bailey can do to improve the quality of the list in the short term. Yes, he could have gone the Brisbane route and tried to recruit a bunch of recycled players and look for some short term gain, (and perhaps with the FA and GC/GWS concessions coming up it might not have been a bad idea, but that's a whole different debate), but he still needs to develop the core of a premiership contender internally.

--

ps. The difference to Hawthorn, St. Kilda or the Dogs (examples of teams who have benefited from 'bottoming out' to some extent), is the complete lack of a balanced playing group at Melbourne to give the kids time to develop -- Hawthorn had Crawf and others (recruited Dew and Croad), the Saints had Gehrig and Harvey et al for a while, and the Dogs had Johnno, Grant, Smith, West and a whole bunch of players from the 1999 draft (Murph et al) to fill out the list. Melbourne have absolutely zero quality apart from their early draft picks, so unless Bailey is aiming to bottom out for the next six years and shoot for a premiership in 2020 I have no idea what he's doing -- it's almost like he's taken the most simplistic version of a fashionable philosophy (play the kids!) and stuck to it to the exclusion of every other principle of building a successful club, most notably HOPE.

Perhaps now that he has a quality core, they'll look for more ready made players over the next few years. I actually think most teams will do this, as the draft will be ravaged. So by 2013 he could have some premier on-ballers, Watts hitting his straps and a few ready made recruits to plug the holes and be challenging for the flag. Certainly not an easy task, and perhaps not entirely plausible, but still possible.

Bolded text.

Good discussion :)

[LostDoggy]

Carlton 14.9 (93) def Brisbane 12.8 (80) @ Visy Park, Friday

'The big spearhead (Fevola) didn’t have the best of days - he kicked two goals from six shots and took just two marks - with opponent Michael Jamison generally getting the better of him on the rare occasions when the Lions were able to isolate the pair.'

Surprised they played him in the Nab Challenge instead of waiting for round 2..wanted to get it out of the way I guess.

[hujsh]

Seems as though there is no radio for Port vs WCE.

[LostDoggy]

Seems as though there is no radio for Port vs WCE.

Yeah I think that was the same for our game 2 weeks ago..

Fox Sports is covering it live at 8.30

[divvydan]

Seems as though there is no radio for Port vs WCE.

It's on ABC and 6pr in Perth, you might be able to get a radio stream online, either through the afl site or the station sites. Also on 5AA and ABC in SA, might just be relayed in both cases.

[chef]

Richmond beat Geelong by about 6 goals in Yea today.

[aker39]

Seems as though there is no radio for Port vs WCE.

SEN are doing the 2nd half

Port leading 60 to 39 nearing 1/2 time.

[aker39]

I spoke to one of the umpires that did the game in Alice Springs last night. He said that they were very close to calling the game off last night. They have had a years worth of rain in the last to weeks.

I saw some footage on the news and the were puddles of water on the ground everywhere.

[comrade]

I spoke to one of the umpires that did the game in Alice Springs last night. He said that they were very close to calling the game off last night. They have had a years worth of rain in the last to weeks.

I saw some footage on the news and the were puddles of water on the ground everywhere.

Terrible conditions for game that meant absolutely nothing - what persuaded the umpires to let it proceed?

[The Coon Dog]

Bloody St.Kilda, won by a point again, this time defeating a plucky Sydney. I was really hoping they'd get knocked out.

[Max469]

Bugger.

Didn't see the game, did they get the usual help from the Umpires?

[LostDoggy]

Richmond beat Geelong by about 6 goals in Yea today.

Just to elaborate, Richmond won by 51pts. Geelong had about 12 senior players out..I bet Tiger fans are getting over excited :rolleyes: And it looks like we're off to Adelaide next week..

[Sockeye Salmon]

Bugger.

Didn't see the game, did they get the usual help from the Umpires?

They got enough help from Seaby. What a ****wit!!!


For those that didn't see it he got a free 60m out and a 50m penalty - certain 9pts coming up. The St. Kilda players left the mark and the idiot played on and ran into an open goal - because he played on it was only a 6 pointer!

[GVGjr]

Port were very good tonight. They shared the load well and it should be a great contest against them next week.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Port Adelaide have looked impressive in their first two weeks.

Krakouer is going to be a back half specialist, Trengove is emerging and the likes of Thompson, Hitchcock, Stewart and Banner have shown plenty.

Good signs for them moving forward. On the other hand, West Coast's ordinary disposal was shown up once again. A lot of people have been expecting them to push into the 8 the last two years but I don't see why. Lack of pace is beaten only by their poor decision making and disposal.

[The Adelaide Connection]

And it looks like we're off to Adelaide next week..

You beauty :D

[chef]

You beauty :D

Looks like we're staying in Melbourne.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/89999/default.aspx

[GVGjr]

Looks like we're staying in Melbourne.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/89999/default.aspx

Well that is a change of direction.

[comrade]

I'd take whatever is written in an AFL.com article with a grain of salt. I'll be waiting for direct confirmation before booking tickets.

[DOG GOD]

Damn Saints, how arsy can they get with another 1 pt win....oh well lets hope theyre winning the close games when it matters least, and they lose their fair share in the real season :)

[hujsh]

I'm with those who hope we go to Adelaide just to get a break from Etihad.

[comrade]

Despite good showings last week, the Weagles came back to Earth with a thud last night, and North Melbourne look horrible today.

Both in the 9-13 range, IMO.

[Rocco Jones]

Despite good showings last week, the Weagles came back to Earth with a thud last night, and North Melbourne look horrible today.

Both in the 9-13 range, IMO.

Someone has to come 8th though and as Essendon demonstrated last year, you don't have to be much to make the finals.

The Eagles were missing a couple of their stronger midfielders last night. I think their home ground advantage gives them an edge over the rest of the pack. Their seems to be as clear a top 7 as possible at this stage with a spot for the rest. Obviously a lot can change between now and then.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Someone has to come 8th though and as Essendon demonstrated last year, you don't have to be much to make the finals.

The Eagles were missing a couple of their stronger midfielders last night. I think their home ground advantage gives them an edge over the rest of the pack. Their seems to be as clear a top 7 as possible at this stage with a spot for the rest. Obviously a lot can change between now and then.

Dogs, Pies, Cats, Saints, Hawks, Crows & Eagles will make the 8.

No-one else is good enough so this year there will only be 7 teams in the 8.

[Rocco Jones]

Dogs, Pies, Cats, Saints, Hawks, Crows & Eagles will make the 8.

No-one else is good enough so this year there will only be 7 teams in the 8.

I had the Lions in my 7. They are a bit limited but I think they will win more games than they will lose. Fev and Brown will get them a few wins against the middle range sides.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Dogs, Pies, Cats, Saints, Hawks, Crows & Eagles will make the 8.

No-one else is good enough so this year there will only be 7 teams in the 8.

Why Eagles?

They get a lot written about them but they've done nothing. Their decision making and disposal is still crap and until that dramatically improves they won't play more than a handful of good games a year IMO.

They still had a reasonably strong side in v Port Adelaide and were trailing by 90 points at one stage. Long way to go.

Lions, Swans, Blues and arguably Port are more capable sides.

[LostDoggy]

I went to the North Freo game tonight.....what a horrible crowd, we got more to the family day today....
reat to see the Freo boys win the game, sitting right near there bench......and watching a whole lot of Michael Barlows game....spewin the doggies didnt pick him up.....

[mighty_west]

Why Eagles?

They get a lot written about them but they've done nothing. Their decision making and disposal is still crap and until that dramatically improves they won't play more than a handful of good games a year IMO.

They still had a reasonably strong side in v Port Adelaide and were trailing by 90 points at one stage. Long way to go.

Lions, Swans, Blues and arguably Port are more capable sides.

Big call imo, i also think West Coast are going to rise up, they seem to try a more free running game style last night, and given a few games to get that right, they could even be around the top 4, they really didn't seem to pressure Port what so ever, and Port will be in for a rude shock when they play us.

Brisbane should also be around that 8-5 mark.

I think the Navy poos will struggle big time, bottom 4 this year imo.

[jazzadogs]

Big call imo, i also think West Coast are going to rise up, they seem to try a more free running game style last night, and given a few games to get that right, they could even be around the top 4, they really didn't seem to pressure Port what so ever, and Port will be in for a rude shock when they play us.

Brisbane should also be around that 8-5 mark.

I think the Navy poos will struggle big time, bottom 4 this year imo.
I think it would be safer to say 6 Definites (Bulldogs, Saints, Cats, Hawks, Pies, Crows) and then the other two spots to fight over. I don't think it can be said with any conviction that Brisbane, WC, Port, Carlton should make the 8.

Was surprised by an article in the Hun today saying that Fevola can get 100 goals this year because he is being supplied by Brisbane's "quality" midfield (or another similar superlative). I would rate Carlton's midfield ahead of Brisbane's.

Port are such an inconsistent team that it's tough to say how they're going to do. Against unaccountable teams they will probably win the majority of games, and surprise a few of the higher ranked teams if they have off days.

WC are an improving side, who I feel will perform better than Port over the course of the year. Kennedy, LeCras, Lynch and McKinley form a strong forward line. A lot depends on the fitness/availability of Kerr and Cox to support their young midfield.

Sydney is my choice as one of the teams to sneak in but realistically it could be any of these 5, or even Essendon, North or Freo (obviously the less likely three. Essendon have no experience, North are a fairly unknown quantity, and Freo...well, who knows about Freo). Richmond and Melbourne are the only ways I completely rule out.

Gonna be a great season. Although I must say, I care a lot more about the top 4 than I do about the top 8.

[Remi Moses]

The eagles game showed how thin their midfield and defence is. North are NO CHANCE I couldn't believe some media types pencilled them in for big improvers! They wont make the Eight very inexperienced and short in the Key Position posts down both ends. Blimey relying on Aaron Edwards to be the big key forward:eek:

[The Coon Dog]

Interesting scheduling by the AFL next week. Brisbane v Geelong on the Gold Coast. I'd be telling Gazza to have the weekend off if I was the Cats.

[comrade]

The eagles game showed how thin their midfield and defence is. North are NO CHANCE I couldn't believe some media types pencilled them in for big improvers! They wont make the Eight very inexperienced and short in the Key Position posts down both ends. Blimey relying on Aaron Edwards to be the big key forward:eek:

The development of North and WCE will be interesting to watch this year, but suggesting they'll be massive improvers on the back of first week NAB Cup action is fraught with danger. They'll improve, but incrementally and not enough to push top 8.

[Remi Moses]

The development of North and WCE will be interesting to watch this year, but suggesting they'll be massive improvers on the back of first week NAB Cup action is fraught with danger. They'll improve, but incrementally and not enough to push top 8.

I think West Coast will jump ahead of North mainley due to the massive home ground advantage. Just off topic I hope so as I hate North with a passion

[chef]

I think West Coast will jump ahead of North mainley due to the massive home ground advantage. Just off topic I hope so as I hate North with a passion

I'm not that eunthused by WCE. Port will be a big improver this year and make the eight, while I won't be surprised to see Essendon to hold their spot and The Hawks will struggle to make it again as well.

[LostDoggy]

They still had a reasonably strong side in v Port Adelaide and were trailing by 90 points at one stage. Long way to go.
.

I agree with the thrust of your argument, but this bit is slightly spurious -- we lost to the Bombers by nearly 80 points in the pre-season cup last year and it was hardly any gauge to either team's true capabilities in the season proper.

[chef]

I agree with the thrust of your argument, but this bit is slightly spurious -- we lost to the Bombers by nearly 80 points in the pre-season cup last year and it was hardly any gauge to either team's true capabilities in the season proper.

Didn't we lose by a point?

[LostDoggy]

Didn't we lose by a point?

You're right. What the hell am I thinking about? Maybe 2008?

[LostDoggy]

Yep 2008. Bombers 113, Dogs 59, and we looked pretty ordinary IIRC -- I must have left towards the end before we kicked a few goals in junk-time.

My point stands (I think) -- we won the first round NAB cup game that year against North in a low-scoring game, then got trounced by Essendon, but still made the Prelims in the real season, which just tells us (as we are all well aware) that the NAB cup means very little in trying to get a handle on teams' formlines in the season proper.

[Go_Dogs]

I must say, Port looked good on the weekend, but I don't think they have enough strength or fitness to out-work our prime movers. They look to be on the way up, and seem to have added a bit more of a harder edge to their game, but I remain unconvinced.

I'd really like to see us clamp down on their ability to win the contested ball and feed their better players. I think under pressure they will struggle, and we can shut down the Pearce's and prevent their run.

Interestingly enough Port have said that they will be going out to win this thing, so expect a full strength side with Brogan, Tredrea, Motlop, Gray and Boak to all come back in.

[mighty_west]

I think it would be safer to say 6 Definites (Bulldogs, Saints, Cats, Hawks, Pies, Crows) and then the other two spots to fight over. I don't think it can be said with any conviction that Brisbane, WC, Port, Carlton should make the 8.

Was surprised by an article in the Hun today saying that Fevola can get 100 goals this year because he is being supplied by Brisbane's "quality" midfield (or another similar superlative). I would rate Carlton's midfield ahead of Brisbane's.

Port are such an inconsistent team that it's tough to say how they're going to do. Against unaccountable teams they will probably win the majority of games, and surprise a few of the higher ranked teams if they have off days.

WC are an improving side, who I feel will perform better than Port over the course of the year. Kennedy, LeCras, Lynch and McKinley form a strong forward line. A lot depends on the fitness/availability of Kerr and Cox to support their young midfield.

Sydney is my choice as one of the teams to sneak in but realistically it could be any of these 5, or even Essendon, North or Freo (obviously the less likely three. Essendon have no experience, North are a fairly unknown quantity, and Freo...well, who knows about Freo). Richmond and Melbourne are the only ways I completely rule out.

Gonna be a great season. Although I must say, I care a lot more about the top 4 than I do about the top 8.

I'm not sure Fev will kick 100 either in that side, he really was the goto man at Carlton, and Carltons mids don't see to generate as many scoring shots as some other sides, so thats one main reason i see them falling this year, Fev will also have JBrown to share the goals with.

At Carlton, i think Betts will struggle somewhat with having no key forward around him, the likes of Henderson, the big Irish, Waite etc might play deep forward at times, but they ain't Fev, and apart frm Marc Murphy who seems to kick a few goals from the midfield, i'm not too sure they have many others that score more than 20 goals per season.

I like West Coast, they seem to have a well balanced side all over the ground, and if they can keep Kerr & Cox on the field for most of the season, who knows, Kennedy will also improve as that big key forward, then like you said, La Cras is quality, McKinley plays as that smaller forward, similar to Brad Johnson, Porplezia....

[comrade]

SPOILER ALERT IF YOU'RE WATCHING THE CH 10 COVERAGE

It's laughable how bad Freo are at times. St Kilda aren't even playing particularly well (Ray has been poor) but find themselves up by 6 goals at half time.

At least we'll be playing in Melbourne next week.

[Dry Rot]

SPOILER ALERT IF YOU'RE WATCHING THE CH 10 COVERAGE

It's laughable how bad Freo are at times. St Kilda aren't even playing particularly well (Ray has been poor) but find themselves up by 6 goals at half time.

At least we'll be playing in Melbourne next week.

Watching it now, late in 2Q. Awful game. I wonder if this is the best preparation for next week for Saints?

[Hotdog60]

Is it just me or does anyone else find Gerald Healy commentary irritating.

Also he would like to see the super goal during the regular season, call me old fashion but that's BS, alright for this pre season stuff but leave it there.

[comrade]

Watching it now, late in 2Q. Awful game. I wonder if this is the best preparation for next week for Saints?

It's hard to gauge how well the Saints have played, because Freo have been woeful. Clint Jones has become a gun, though.

[Dry Rot]

Clint Jones has become a gun, though.

Agreed. Very impressive.

[Mantis]

It's hard to gauge how well the Saints have played, because Freo have been woeful. Clint Jones has become a gun, though.

He is still a cheat.

[comrade]

He is still a cheat.

Yeah, and his face is pretty punchable too. I should note that 40 touches against Fremantle is really worth 15-20 against an average AFL side.

Geez, they were shocking tonight.

[chef]

The saints struggle when they have to kick out from a point, does Goddard usually have this duty for them?

[hujsh]

Also he would like to see the super goal during the regular season, call me old fashion but that's BS, alright for this pre season stuff but leave it there.

He was quite adamant that it should be in too. Shows how worthless his opinion is.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He was quite adamant that it should be in too. Shows how worthless his opinion is.

Not to mention him talking up Kosi as being one of the best kicks in the competition for his size. Absolute crap - the guy regularly sprays them and is the most overrated player in the AFL.

[jazzadogs]

SPOILER ALERT IF YOU'RE WATCHING THE CH 10 COVERAGE

It's laughable how bad Freo are at times. St Kilda aren't even playing particularly well (Ray has been poor) but find themselves up by 6 goals at half time.

At least we'll be playing in Melbourne next week.
I don't think I've ever seen a scenario where Fox has shown a game live, while Channel 10 has shown the same game on a delay? I found it very unusual...did channel10 use the foxtel feed/commentary?

Most of the Foxtel commentators annoy me, to be honest.

I would say that Goddard does the kicking in majority of the time, but they do share it around a fair bit...Gram, Ray, Fisher, Gilbert. Even Blake has a go sometimes.

[Twodogs]

If Kennedy can kick 50 plus goals then they can be strong contender this season.


How good is he going to be?


Long after Judd has retired after playing in a few elimination finals Kennedy will still be collecting premiership medals. I am really glad that the Carlton recruiting team dont hold that job at Whitten Oval.

[Twodogs]

Is it just me or does anyone else find Gerald Healy commentary irritating.





No, it's not just you. He's a moron of the highest order and has little to know idea about 14 of the 16 AFL clubs. He should just stick to Swans and Carlton games because he sounds illinformed and ignorant when he tries to dissect the other teams game plans and players.


To call him an 'expert' commentater is silly. He really struggles with tactics.

[Go_Dogs]

How good is he going to be?

He's a beauty isn't he. WCE have done very well out of the Judd trade, and Kennedy will just continue to get better and better.

[Go_Dogs]

So the Crows managed a 1 point win over Carlton at Visy Park last night.

They have really struggled in their pre-season games, with their only wins being narrow against Melbourne in Adelaide and Carlton. Not exactly setting the world on fire. I think I'd be right in saying most would have considered the Crows to be around the mark again this year, so it will be interesting to see how their season progresses from this point.

Admittedly they did have a number of players out.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

So the Crows managed a 1 point win over Carlton at Visy Park last night.

They have really struggled in their pre-season games, with their only wins being narrow against Melbourne in Adelaide and Carlton. Not exactly setting the world on fire. I think I'd be right in saying most would have considered the Crows to be around the mark again this year, so it will be interesting to see how their season progresses from this point.

Admittedly they did have a number of players out.

Agree they haven't appeared in good touch but I remember a couple of years ago we lost all our pre-season games with the exception of the last one (v Melbourne?). By memory we came out pretty strong in the first few weeks of the season. It might of even been 2008?

I think Adelaide are a bit of a dork horse at the moment. Plenty of publicity about Dogs, Saints, Cats, Pies and Hawks giving it a shake but Adelaide have an interesting list. Some pretty good youngsters that have only played a handful of games, emerging stars (Tippett, Vince, Knights) and established older guns (Edwards, Goodwin, McLeod). IMO they need a good start to the year, though.

[hujsh]

Agree they haven't appeared in good touch but I remember a couple of years ago we lost all our pre-season games with the exception of the last one (v Melbourne?). By memory we came out pretty strong in the first few weeks of the season. It might of even been 2008?


Sounds like last year IIRC. People were talking about the zone employed by St.Kilda and how football would be crap that year.

[Go_Dogs]

I think Adelaide are a bit of a dork horse at the moment. Plenty of publicity about Dogs, Saints, Cats, Pies and Hawks giving it a shake but Adelaide have an interesting list. Some pretty good youngsters that have only played a handful of games, emerging stars (Tippett, Vince, Knights) and established older guns (Edwards, Goodwin, McLeod). IMO they need a good start to the year, though.

They certainly do, and the first half of their draw is significantly more favourable than the second. Vince, Knights and a handful of other guys haven't played much over the pre-season so I think they may struggle with a few under-done players.

I agree that they are now a bit of a dark horse (I'm guessing your dork horse was a typo, but I found it quite amusing!) and should still be around the mark for a Top 4 spot. Will be very interesting to see how they go.




Port were absolutely spanked by Collingwood yesterday - somewhere close to a 90 point belting. Collingwood's small forward line dominated, and they had I think about 14 individual goal kickers. We are going to have to be very mindful of their spread come Rd 1.

[LostDoggy]

Results from this weekend

Brisbane 7.14 (56) def Hawthorn 6.9. (45) @ Southport
Sydney 14.15 (99) def Kangaroos 8.9 (57) @ Narrendera
Adelaide 12.11 (83) def Carlton 11.16 (82) @ Visy Park
West Coast 18.16 (124) def Melbourne 12.14 (86) @ Casey Fields
Essendon 23.9 (147) def Richmond 11.7 (73) @ Morwell
Geelong 14.12 (96) def Fremantle 10.5 (65) @ Fremantle
Collingwood 27.16 (178) def Port Adelaide 15.7 (97) @ Mt Gambier

Big win by Collingwood...keep in mind though Port have been on the road for the last 3 weeks and have had a pretty good pre-season..dont take anything from that match i'd say.

[Go_Dogs]

Freo beat Geelong too, wow. Geelong are another side that has had a pretty poor pre-season. That kind of worries me though, because if they make Top 4 they have that belief and ability to really step it up when it counts.





Big win by Collingwood...keep in mind though Port have been on the road for the last 3 weeks and have had a pretty good pre-season..dont take anything from that match i'd say.

I think we do need to be a little concerned about the Collingwood result. They had a very even spread of goals from their many small players who can rotate through that area (reminded me of a Bulldogs goal sheet from any of our previous few years). Jolley was about best on, and Ball had a very good outing.

[The Coon Dog]

Geelong 10.5 (65) def Fremantle 14.12 (96) @ Fremantle
Scores should be Geelong 96 def Fremantle 65.

[LostDoggy]

Freo beat Geelong too, wow. Geelong are another side that has had a pretty poor pre-season. That kind of worries me though, because if they make Top 4 they have that belief and ability to really step it up when it counts.

I think we do need to be a little concerned about the Collingwood result. They had a very even spread of goals from their many small players who can rotate through that area (reminded me of a Bulldogs goal sheet from any of our previous few years). Jolley was about best on, and Ball had a very good outing.

My bad - Geelongs first win :rolleyes:

Yeah they did have a bit of a spread..and Ball played well - Luke Ball and John Anthony (three goals), Tarkyn Lockyer, Paul Medhurst, Dale Thomas and Scott Pendlebury (two goals)


Scores should be Geelong 96 def Fremantle 65.

Cheers.

[hujsh]

I think we do need to be a little concerned about the Collingwood result. They had a very even spread of goals from their many small players who can rotate through that area (reminded me of a Bulldogs goal sheet from any of our previous few years). Jolley was about best on, and Ball had a very good outing.

If any coaching team should know how to stop that kind of forward line it would be ours.

If the ball's coming in pressured then it shouldn't matter anyway.

[Go_Dogs]

If any coaching team should know how to stop that kind of forward line it would be ours.

If the ball's coming in pressured then it shouldn't matter anyway.

Why? We're the only side that has played with such a set up and haven't had to play ourselves in the H&A season. Their set up is still more traditional than ours was anyway, as they do have a couple of tall targets.

I'm more thinking along the lines of match ups anyway. I guess Morris can play small and Lake/Williams can take Cloke/Anthony. Our offensive defenders will need to be very mindful though, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Picken taken to the last line of defence.

[hujsh]

Why? We're the only side that has played with such a set up and haven't had to play ourselves in the H&A season.

But we've had far more time analyzing how oppositions have shut us down and would be familiar in what ways are the most successful. The practical side is untested but the theory should be solid.