What's our weakness?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Over the past few years we've been a very good football side. We finished third in 2008 and went down to Geelong by around 4 goals in the PF. We finished third in 2009 and were much more competitive in the finals series where arguably we should have beaten St. Kilda in the PF.

Much has been said about our midfield. The likes of Boyd, Cross, Cooney, Griffen, Higgins, Ward, Hill, Eagleton, Giansiracusa, Akermanis and co all drifting through there. Reid looks like a real player who can stand up to the best sides whilst Wood is making leaps and bounds. No doubt it's a strong point of our side.

Over the last 12 months, our defensive core have been pretty impressive too. Lake, Morris, Gilbee, Hargrave and Harbrow have been praised quite a lot and rightfully so. It's a solid mix of strength, negating and run/carry. On paper, Williams is probably the missing link to hold down CHB.

There's been variations of opinions on our forward half for quite a while. We score heavily but we've lacked a key forward. Finally - we've got one in Harry Hall. In the wings both Grant and Jones look like they could develop nicely too. We've got plenty of mid sized options that can rotate through there including Johnson, Murphy, Hahn, Higgins, Giansiracusa, Hill and Cooney. Everitt's not far off either.

Our rucks are pretty healthy and have got their fair share of praise, too. Both big physical guys who throw their weight around in Hudson and Minson. Roughead is only young but looked very solid last week.

So; my question is ... what's our weakness? We hear so much about our strengths but the reality is that we've been a pace behind the top two in both 2008/2009. Heading into 2010, what will opposition sides look to exploit? if you were coaching against the Dogs, how would you go about breaking them down?

[MrMahatma]

I think the biggest 'risk' for this season is our fwd line. If hall, Aker, jonno get injured it will hurt as I don't think our kids are quite ready to take over. On paper we look strong across the board, but not sure how our fwd line pace is, so as a coach you'd def look to hurt our vets going the other way.

[Sockeye Salmon]

So; my question is ... what's our weakness? We hear so much about our strengths but the reality is that we've been a pace behind the top two in both 2008/2009. Heading into 2010, what will opposition sides look to exploit? if you were coaching against the Dogs, how would you go about breaking them down?

I'm thinking a few years ahead. Let's say it takes 5 years to go from draftee to top-liner so I'm considering anyone born in '85 or earlier (it's also easy because Callan is our only '84 DOB).

Rucks - Minson, Roughead, Cordy. Fantastic. Up there with carlton as the best developing ruck group going around.

Mids - Cooney, Griffen, Ward & Higgins give us a handy head start (assuming we can keep them. Depth starts to thin out after that although Wood & Reid look OK. Moles will end up on the senior list and play a lot of senior footy. Harbrow may end up playing further up the ground. Wallis & Liberatore will join the group next year. If we can keep them all together this group looks pretty good.

Backline - Howard needs to become the designated kicker because we don't really have too many other options. We don't have lockdown small defender and might look at manufacturing one from the midfield group. Williams hasn't yet proved anything, Boumann lacks desperation and intensity, Markovic doesn't seem athletic enough and Mulligan might not be a good enough mark. I see defensive problems ahead unless one or two develop better than I expact them too.

Forwardline - Cordy, is he a forward or a ruck? I suspect he'll be a bit of both as required. FWIW, he told me he thinks he's a ruckman. Grant is a real worry, personally, I think we've pissed pick 5 against the wall, time will tell. Jones looks the real deal. We have no genuine crumber but midfielders can play as small forwards.


Conclusion: I'm not sure we are as flush with KPP's as everyone seems to think. Sure we have quantity but I'm not convinced that most will make it long term. If we loose one or two key midfielders to GC17/WS (think Cooney & Harbrow) hard times are not far away.

[GVGjr]

So; my question is ... what's our weakness? We hear so much about our strengths but the reality is that we've been a pace behind the top two in both 2008/2009. Heading into 2010, what will opposition sides look to exploit? if you were coaching against the Dogs, how would you go about breaking them down?

To me it comes down a lack of key position depth.
We really can't cover a long term injury to Lake or Hudson that well and that's been the potential problem for us for a while.

You can cover not having tall forwards, in fact Eade has proven that the lack of a KP forward hasn't stopped the sides goal kicking too much, but when playing sides with power forwards like the Hawks and the Saints and maybe Brisbane you just can't hope that the likes of Morris can hold a genuine power forward for 4 quarters.

We have been short sighted with rucks for a fair while and even losing Skipper exposes us a bit more than I would like.

We need to hope that our tall defenders and rucks can stay fit.

[boydogs]

Ruck mobility could be a problem this year with the emergence of the Ryder, Clark, Naitanui types. We have a wrong side of 30 Hudson and underdone Minson, then Roughead who is yet to debut.

CHB still looks shaky, until we can see Williams stay on the park and improve his reading of the play then Riewoldt, Franklin, Kennedy types could be a headache

We don't have a superstar midfielder or forward in their prime e.g. Ablett and Riewoldt (though Cooney and Higgins deserve a mention), which means we rely on a solid performance across the board to compete

If I was coaching against the Dogs:

- Shepherd, block, set up your stars to do damage. Play through them every time you get the chance. Give it to them in areas where they can hurt the opposition. The even Dogs can't be stopped through tagging, but we can, make sure that doesn't happen by giving them every chance to have an effect on the game

- Play through your ruckman when going forward. Burn the Dogs rucks out by making them chase. They will get on top if they are only made to contest stoppages, move them around and get our rucks involved in the game around the ground

- Move the CHF up the ground, out of the reaches of Lake, then short pass to leading forwards to avoid Lake marking the long bombs and setting up rebound plays

[Mantis]

To me it comes down a lack of key position depth.
We really can't cover a long term injury to Lake or Hudson that well and that's been the potential problem for us for a while.

You can cover not having tall forwards, in fact Eade has proven that the lack of a KP forward hasn't stopped the sides goal kicking too much, but when playing sides with power forwards like the Hawks and the Saints and maybe Brisbane you just can't hope that the likes of Morris can hold a genuine power forward for 4 quarters.

We have been short sighted with rucks for a fair while and even losing Skipper exposes us a bit more than I would like.

We need to hope that our tall defenders and rucks can stay fit.

It isn't that the same for all teams?

If Geelong were to lose Ottens and Scarlett this year could they cover them? Last year possibly, but with Mumford and Harley departing they too would struggle to cover for the loss of key players.

[GVGjr]

It isn't that the same for all teams?

If Geelong were to lose Ottens and Scarlett this year could they cover them? Last year possibly, but with Mumford and Harley departing they too would struggle to cover for the loss of key players.

I suppose the question isn't really about the potential weaknesses of other sides as it's more focused on our weaknesses and I think it's where we are most vulnerable.

The Cats still performed well when Scarlett missed a game or two and have covered Ottens fairly well. At times Taylor and Mackie battled bigger names in defence very well and of course Mooney has been used in the ruck for short stints as well.

I think we have made errors not being more proactive in developing our ruckman and I hope this isn't the year that highlights that.

[Mantis]

I suppose the question isn't really about the potential weaknesses of other sides as it's more focused on our weaknesses and I think it's where we are most vulnerable.

The Cats still performed well when Scarlett missed a game or two and have covered Ottens fairly well. At times Taylor and Mackie battled bigger names in defence very well and of course Mooney has been used in the ruck for short stints as well.

I think we have made errors not being more proactive in developing our ruckman and I hope this isn't the year that highlights that.

That's all good and well in the past, but this year it could be a different story.

No doubt we would struggle if we get injuries to importanat players, but you can't really stockpile ready made replacements in all departments due to salary cap restraints and the want of 'fringe' players at strong clubs to play regular senior footy.

[The Pie Man]

I'll take a different tack - dropping intensity/focus

Think 1st half vs WCE last year & large chunks of the QF against Geelong.

I'm waiting to see if we lose 2 or 10 games this year. We've never finished top of the ladder, and I don't think we've ever been in a better position list wise or better prepared to set some club records this year....if we play to our optimum more consistently

* Edit - first half last week, albeit NAB Cup, reminded me of this problem - Gia mentioned in the post game they copped a bake at 1/4 and half time, and the group responding to that (or perhaps needing that bake) is a recurring theme

[Dry Rot]

I'll take a different tack - dropping intensity/focus

Think 1st half vs WCE last year & large chunks of the QF against Geelong.

I'm waiting to see if we lose 2 or 10 games this year. We've never finished top of the ladder, and I don't think we've ever been in a better position list wise or better prepared to set some club records this year....if we play to our optimum more consistently

* Edit - first half last week, albeit NAB Cup, reminded me of this problem - Gia mentioned in the post game they copped a bake at 1/4 and half time, and the group responding to that (or perhaps needing that bake) is a recurring theme

Agreed, but I'd add in general mental weakness/panic.

We won't win a flag unless we can sort this.

[FrediKanoute]

You can't do much about injuries except cope and unless we have a horror year like the year we lost 4 list players to knees, then you expect second tier players to step up and fill a gap and hopefully fill it well.

Its believing the hype and expecting things to happen rather than making things happen which will be the big hurdle we have to overcome. last weekend was a great example of this. We spent the first half waiting for someone in the team to take the game by the scruff of the next and take control. In the end it was Cooney in the 3rd quarter who did this, but the query is why other "leaders" in the team didn't?

I think we go into 2010 with an expectation and pressure that we should give the flag a shake and take the next step. The Doggies as a team have never been good when there is that level of expectation on them. underdogs yes.

[Go_Dogs]

I think our big weakness heading into the 2010 season is pace in the forward half. We have no zippy forwards, and as such I think we'll struggle a bit for defensive pressure in the F50. Slowing teams ball movement out of the F50 is going to be even more important again this year, and we really need someone to put their name forward strongly for that role.


If Lake, Hudson, Cooney or Morris go down for extended periods, I think we'll struggle, but most other players on the list we should be able to cover to a certain extent.

[SonofScray]

Agree on the points re: focus and mental toughness.

We very rarely put teams to the sword and very often give up a good start to the opposition. The stats might suggest otherwise but it is the perception I've had of us under Eade.

Heaps of expectation this year, immense pressure which will require our better players to really play with that extra bit of bite. Drag the younger players up through their own efforts. I'm not convinced we have that yet.

Adding to the point on focus, we are very good when the defensive pressure is up but drop away considerably when it is not there. Rocket mentioned many times last year this was an issue and we still got caught out a few times. Unfortunately our best efforts in this regard didn't get us over the line in the PF.

In terms of personnel, FB and ruck stocks are a worry. If Lake was to go down (touch wood) I think we'd all have that sick feeling. He is a terrific player and we have very few options underneath him, average at best. Rucks are not quite as bad, but we are expecting a bit from Roughie if we have issues with Minson or Huddo.

Really though, the injury and depth issues are weaknesses but not something that you can control as a Club in season. So with a bit of luck they don't come into the equation. Its our ability to overcome the mental aspects, apply ourselves and really damage teams that needs to step up a bit more.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think our big weakness heading into the 2010 season is pace in the forward half. We have no zippy forwards, and as such I think we'll struggle a bit for defensive pressure in the F50. Slowing teams ball movement out of the F50 is going to be even more important again this year, and we really need someone to put their name forward strongly for that role.

It's a point worth talking about Griff. Last year we struggled quite a few times with this. Our forward half was basically a trampoline and in today's game - you simply cannot afford that. Most sides have one medium-smaller forward that plays a more defensive role to keep the ball locked in their forward half. We don't have that - should we groom somebody for it?

Stack?

Can we afford to play Hall, Hahn, Johnson and Akermanis at the one time up forward? Obviously it's a bit of wait and see approach but I think we need some defensive grunt/spark.


Agree on the points re: focus and mental toughness.

We very rarely put teams to the sword and very often give up a good start to the opposition. The stats might suggest otherwise but it is the perception I've had of us under Eade.

Adding to the point on focus, we are very good when the defensive pressure is up but drop away considerably when it is not there. Rocket mentioned many times last year this was an issue and we still got caught out a few times. Unfortunately our best efforts in this regard didn't get us over the line in the PF.

Good points you touch on SOS. That's been one of the main differences between us and Geelong/St.Kilda last year. We rarely kick on and drive the opposition into the ground. Our killer instinct has got a little better over the last couple of years but it needs to improve. I think our concentration is the most important aspect; as you said, it fell away far too often in 2009. We can't allow sides like Geelong to kick a string of 6 unanswered goals on us. We can't allow sides like West Coast to make us look silly and account for us twice.

Our best is no doubt good enough, but we need to shorten the gap between our best and worst. If we can - then quite possibly we could surpass both Geelong and St. Kilda.

[Go_Dogs]

It's a point worth talking about Griff. Last year we struggled quite a few times with this. Our forward half was basically a trampoline and in today's game - you simply cannot afford that. Most sides have one medium-smaller forward that plays a more defensive role to keep the ball locked in their forward half. We don't have that - should we groom somebody for it?

Stack?

Can we afford to play Hall, Hahn, Johnson and Akermanis at the one time up forward? Obviously it's a bit of wait and see approach but I think we need some defensive grunt/spark.

Guys like Stack and Hill are certainly potential candidates. Perhaps they can be given a role on a guy like Harbrow at training - as Harbrow is the sort of backline player that we'd want a guy like Stack to play on.

I know we briefly experimented with Addison playing such a role, and that is one I'd perhaps like to see trialled again. Osborne for Hawthorn (certainly not the most skillful bloke around) was terrific for the Hawks in 2008 playing such a role. Picken and Ward are another couple of guys I wouldn't mind seeing given a role up forwards, as they are both hard in the contest and with their defensive efforts.

As you say, ideally we don't want Hall, Hahn, Johnson and Akermanis playing as our 4 targets up forward at the same time. It will certainly limit our defensive pressure. It'll be interesting to see how Eade counters this over the course of the season.

[Dry Rot]

Hall may not be zippy, but IIRC he is pretty good defensively.

[Go_Dogs]

Hall may not be zippy, but IIRC he is pretty good defensively.

True, but I wouldn't want to be relying on a 30+ year old key position player to spear head our defensive pressure in the F50.

[Dry Rot]

True, but I wouldn't want to be relying on a 30+ year old key position player to spear head our defensive pressure in the F50.

Agreed, but I think he'll do his job. He has intent. Dunno whether the other vets are so defensively minded.

I quite like the idea of having Picken down there - he'll kick a few goals while pressuring the defenders.

[Rocco Jones]

I quite like the idea of having Picken down there - he'll kick a few goals while pressuring the defenders.

Yeah I would really like to see Picken having a go as a defensive forward, especially when we play sides without an obvious match up for him.

[Dry Rot]

Yeah I would really like to see Picken having a go as a defensive forward, especially when we play sides without an obvious match up for him.

He has the defensive side down pat (and a bit of a nasty streak :) ), but I've been pretty impressed with his shots on goal when the opportunity has arisen. He could really surprise everyone on the last point.

I suppose that begs the question possibly of Moles' role - could he be a tagger?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He has the defensive side down pat (and a bit of a nasty streak :) ), but I've been pretty impressed with his shots on goal when the opportunity has arisen. He could really surprise everyone on the last point.

I suppose that begs the question possibly of Moles' role - could he be a tagger?

Not sure on Moles but you probably don't need a tagger for every game. Definitely going to be times when Picken will be better suited to a forward role as opposed to a tagging role.

FWIW I think Reid could play the tagging role. He did well on Bartel in Round 21 and they're the types you usually look to quell. Near impossible to keep Ablett out of the game so looking towards the next best midfielder is the go. The two (Picken/Reid) can rotate through the midfield but it could allow us to use Liam in a defensive role up forward, especially as Geelong love to run the ball through the lines.

[Go_Dogs]

Not sure on Moles but you probably don't need a tagger for every game. Definitely going to be times when Picken will be better suited to a forward role as opposed to a tagging role.

FWIW I think Reid could play the tagging role. He did well on Bartel in Round 21 and they're the types you usually look to quell. Near impossible to keep Ablett out of the game so looking towards the next best midfielder is the go. The two (Picken/Reid) can rotate through the midfield but it could allow us to use Liam in a defensive role up forward, especially as Geelong love to run the ball through the lines.

Good points.

I think Picken forward is a good move. He has good vision too, and a pretty good leg - so if he isn't kicking them himself he can give someone else a shot on goal.

Reid did do a great job lining up on Bartel, and that could certainly be a role that we see him play more often. Hopefully his pace can improve on what we saw last year too given he's now over the groin complaint.

I'd also like to see Crossy and Boyd take more defensively minded roles this year, and also be more mindful to block and sheppard for the likes of Cooney, Griffen and Higgins. They can still work hard to create the options offensively, but a tighter defensive mindset could be used, with a good amount of offensive, attacking options now playing more midfield, and allow Picken to perhaps experiment in a role in the F50.

[stefoid]

Structure is our weakness. A decent big CHB and a decent big long target in the forward line. Despite all the protestations to the contrary, we all know that without a decent long target up forward, we have to work too hard to score goals when the pressure is on, and we are too predictable about how we bring the ball forward. when we aren't predictable (by kicking long to small forwards), we fail to score against the quality defences.

Our strength is we are very even across the whole 22. I think our last 5 players are the best last 5 players in the league.

[Mantis]

I'll take a different tack - dropping intensity/focus

Think 1st half vs WCE last year & large chunks of the QF against Geelong.

I'm waiting to see if we lose 2 or 10 games this year. We've never finished top of the ladder, and I don't think we've ever been in a better position list wise or better prepared to set some club records this year....if we play to our optimum more consistently

* Edit - first half last week, albeit NAB Cup, reminded me of this problem - Gia mentioned in the post game they copped a bake at 1/4 and half time, and the group responding to that (or perhaps needing that bake) is a recurring theme

Agree with all this.

It's a bit of an indictment that it seems we only fire up after a 'rev up' from the coach. Surely the 'leaders' of the team should be able to fire us up if they see our intensity levels aren't where they are supposed to be?

[Greystache]

Yeah I would really like to see Picken having a go as a defensive forward, especially when we play sides without an obvious match up for him.


What about Picken as a small lockdown defender? It's probably one area of concern for me, Callan's inability to keep his feet under pressure and poor disposal rule him out, and I don't think Addison looks like he's going to come on like we'd hoped either.

[bornadog]

Biggest weakness is still CHB, we have struggled to find a top line, consistent, player for this role since Foster (excluding when Grant went down back).

As GVGjr mentioned, the other weakness will be if Lake goes down. Without the CHB, and god help us if Lake goes down, we will once more be shorties trying to punch above our weight.