Believing the Hype

[Bulldog Revolution]

Was our 2009 form good enough to really justify thinking we are a genuine flag chance in 2010? or did we just play a momumentally heartbreaking Preliminary Final?

Do we need to remember we lost to West Coast twice in 09, got smashed by St Kilda twice and Carlton once?

[chef]

Was our 2009 form good enough to really justify thinking we are a genuine flag chance in 2010? or did we just play a momumentally heartbreaking Preliminary Final?

Do we need to remember we lost to West Coast twice in 09, got smashed by St Kilda twice and Carlton once?

I believe the hype. The way we finished the season(after the WCE kick up the backside) and how we went in the finals showed that we can take it up to anybody. If we can keep our better players on the park(and have a little luck) we as good as any team in the comp.

[mjp]

I believe the hype. The way we finished the season(after the WCE kick up the backside) and how we went in the finals showed that we can take it up to anybody.

How we went in the finals? Remind me again? 3 games. 1 win (against a clearly overmatched Brisbane). 2 losses. And the team we beat (Brisbane) blew their team up in an attempt to improve at seasons end.

You sound like an Australian soccer supporter declaring the last world cup (one draw, one win, 2 losses) to be an outstanding success rather than what it was. Something to build on. I think we are all forgetting just how hard it is to back up and just get to last years finishing point - the preliminary final.

2007 - Lest we forget.

[chef]

How we went in the finals? Remind me again? 3 games. 1 win (against a clearly overmatched Brisbane). 2 losses. And the team we beat (Brisbane) blew their team up in an attempt to improve at seasons end.

You sound like an Australian soccer supporter declaring the last world cup (one draw, one win, 2 losses) to be an outstanding success rather than what it was. Something to build on. I think we are all forgetting just how hard it is to back up and just get to last years finishing point - the preliminary final.

2007 - Lest we forget.

We should have beaten both Geelong and St.Kilda in the finals.

We had plenty of chances(as well as some dodgy umpiring) against the Saints, yet we failed to nail these chances when they came(A big if for this season is our players believing they are the best). Two(Cooney and Murphy) of our three most important players(Lake is the other) played this game under duress and weren't half as effective as they should be. We lost by 7 points. Games this close usually are won by the team which has luck go their way(like the ball falling into Roos lap for the last goal). We're we that far away from beating the Saints?

Against Geelong we didn't come to play(much like against the Hawks the year before) whether this is a mental thing or not, I don't know. We gave them to much of a head start at the start of the game and the end of the 3rd quarter. Yet we only lost by 14 points. We did have a few chances in the last quarter that we didn't nail.

Sorry MJP, I usually enjoy your posts but the bit about being like a Aussie soccer supporter is not right. In my IMO we are in the top three sides of the comp and still have more improvement to come.

[Go_Dogs]

How we went in the finals? Remind me again? 3 games. 1 win (against a clearly overmatched Brisbane). 2 losses. And the team we beat (Brisbane) blew their team up in an attempt to improve at seasons end.

It's true that our finals record is poo. Under Eade we've beaten Collingwood, Sydney and Brisbane, been spanked by West Coast and Hawthorn, lost to Geelong (x2) and the Saints. Hardly an inspiring record, but over the journey we've been getting progressively closer, and making improvements to our list.

On paper we have a very strong side, and there is no reason why we shouldn't improve again. A lot of our key movers are at or close to the ages where they should be starting to hit their peaks. Cooney, Griffen, Higgins, Cross, Boyd, Gilbee, Hargrave, Lake, Morris, Hahn and hopefully Murphy. More development from Harbrow, Ward, Reid, Picken, Hill etc.

We have some old players, but based on what we saw in 2009 Johnson and Akermanis are both capable of playing good football, it can all change, but you can hardly advocate we'd be better off without them. They'll play reduced roles, but their output will hopefully be fairly consistent.

There's a lot to like. But there are still a lot of unanswered questions, as you've rightfully pointed out. I think the group will have the belief, and they would know all to well that only hard work and dedication will give them another opportunity. There are no easy games, and I'm sure no one is under any illusions about what lies ahead.



As an aside, did you (or anyone) think the Saints would improve by as much as they did in 2009? I know they'd been around the mark for a few years, but they hadn't been turning in the sort of dominating performances they produced in 2009 previously. In fact, most experts would have tipped Hawthorn for that sort of dominating season.

[mjp]

That's all fair enough, but saying we 'Should Have' beaten Geelong is just not right. We never looked like winning and blaming it on 'not coming to play' is just a complete cop out. With the Saints, they took their chances, we didn't. I don't like blaming luck - I would point to easy goals being missed by experienced players...as for the dodgey umpiring comment, I felt pretty agrieved at the time but when you watch it again it is only the Lake / Riewoldt incident that stands out...there were good and bad decisions both ways aside from that. Basically, I am seeing and hearing a lot of excuses about how
Geelong and St Kilda beat us in the finals last year, but the simple fact remains - they beat us, and they haven't exactly gone backwards (though Geelong are getting old I admit) and the other challengers are coming.

Sure - we have claims to be in the top 3 sides. But this time last year Hawthorn were unbackable premiership favorites and didn't even make the 8. I just think there is as much to worry about as there is to be excited about - there have been equal parts good and bad about this off-season and we face an incredible challenge just to get back to the point where things ended last year...there are no free passes - some sides below us seem to have improved remarkably based on early season evidence (West Coast and North in particular) and they will be coming after us. Every side knows our keys now, Higgins will find himself under incredible pressure from the opposition and more time will be put into stopping Harbrow's run...

It isn't going to be easy. I just see a lot of self satisfaction around at the moment, a lot of confidence, and we haven't (like the Australian soccer team) actually accomplished anything noteworthy in 2010.

[Greystache]

We should have beaten both Geelong and St.Kilda in the finals.

We had plenty of chances(as well as some dodgy umpiring) against the Saints, yet we failed to nail these chances when they came.

That's the problem, against the top teams we always have our chance yet we never take them. Geelong 08- We had complete control of the game in the 3rd quarter and start of the 4th, but we missed chance after chance to put the score on the board and paid in the end. Ditto Geelong 09- in the last quarter Geelong had stopped, but time and time again we missed easy shots and didn't capitalise. St Kilda 09- we controlled most of the game and didn't put it on the scoreboard, even until the dying moments of the last quarter we had chances to win but no one stood up and kicked accurately when it counted.

You can make excuses that we had chances to win and were unlucky that we missed some easy shots at goal once, but when you do it time after time, it's not bad luck, it's the inability of the players to deliver at the big moment. Until we prove we can do it, I can’t see any way we can claim be anything other than one of the better teams in the mix.

[chef]

That's all fair enough, but saying we 'Should Have' beaten Geelong is just not right. We never looked like winning and blaming it on 'not coming to play' is just a complete cop out. With the Saints, they took their chances, we didn't. I don't like blaming luck - I would point to easy goals being missed by experienced players...as for the dodgey umpiring comment, I felt pretty agrieved at the time but when you watch it again it is only the Lake / Riewoldt incident that stands out...there were good and bad decisions both ways aside from that. Basically, I am seeing and hearing a lot of excuses about how
Geelong and St Kilda beat us in the finals last year, but the simple fact remains - they beat us, and they haven't exactly gone backwards (though Geelong are getting old I admit) and the other challengers are coming.

Sure - we have claims to be in the top 3 sides. But this time last year Hawthorn were unbackable premiership favorites and didn't even make the 8. I just think there is as much to worry about as there is to be excited about - there have been equal parts good and bad about this off-season and we face an incredible challenge just to get back to the point where things ended last year...there are no free passes - some sides below us seem to have improved remarkably based on early season evidence (West Coast and North in particular) and they will be coming after us. Every side knows our keys now, Higgins will find himself under incredible pressure from the opposition and more time will be put into stopping Harbrow's run...

It isn't going to be easy. I just see a lot of self satisfaction around at the moment, a lot of confidence, and we haven't (like the Australian soccer team) actually accomplished anything noteworthy in 2010.

Fair enough.

[chef]

That's the problem, against the top teams we always have our chance yet we never take them. Geelong 08- We had complete control of the game in the 3rd quarter and start of the 4th, but we missed chance after chance to put the score on the board and paid in the end. Ditto Geelong 09- in the last quarter Geelong had stopped, but time and time again we missed easy shots and didn't capitalise. St Kilda 09- we controlled most of the game and didn't put it on the scoreboard, even until the dying moments of the last quarter we had chances to win but no one stood up and kicked accurately when it counted.

You can make excuses that we had chances to win and were unlucky that we missed some easy shots at goal once, but when you do it time after time, it's not bad luck, it's the inability of the players to deliver at the big moment. Until we prove we can do it, I can’t see any way we can claim be anything other than one of the better teams in the mix.

But thats all I'm doing?

[Greystache]

But thats all I'm doing?

Agree, except for your comment we should've beaten Geelong and St Kilda, our history shows we don't take our chances. Let's hope this is the year we break the mould.

[Bulldog Revolution]

It isn't going to be easy. I just see a lot of self satisfaction around at the moment, a lot of confidence, and we haven't (like the Australian soccer team) actually accomplished anything noteworthy in 2010.

I picked up on this vibe from you in another thread and its what made me think of this one

I am hoping that the self confidence is justified and the players have done the work, and left no cliched stone unturned, but the proof will be the pudding.

I felt we were unluckier than normal in the prelim, but I was disgusted with the performance against Geelong - it was an insipid display in which we smashed in the centre square.

I think we will find out Friday night that it is not going to be easy.

[bornadog]

Was our 2009 form good enough to really justify thinking we are a genuine flag chance in 2010? or did we just play a momumentally heartbreaking Preliminary Final?

Do we need to remember we lost to West Coast twice in 09, got smashed by St Kilda twice and Carlton once?

I think our form was good enough in 2009 to justify a genuine flag chance in 2010.

Don't forget we nailed Geelong and missed a goal after the siren to beta them twice in the H&A, which tells me we are definitely up with the top three or four chances. 2010 of course is a new season and everything must fall into place, but taking 2009 form the answer to your question is yes.

[chef]

Agree, except for your comment we should've beaten Geelong and St Kilda, our history shows we don't take our chances. Let's hope this is the year we break the mould.

I should have said could have, not should have.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I felt pretty agrieved at the time but when you watch it again it is only the Lake / Riewoldt incident that stands out...there were good and bad decisions both ways aside from that.

Er, no.

Hargrave, Hudson, Ward for starters.

[Greystache]

I should have said could have, not should have.

Yeah fair enough.

[aker39]

Er, no.

Hargrave, Hudson, Ward for starters.


The worst decision of the lot.

Clearly the umpire guessed, and he guessed wrong.

[LostDoggy]

All I know is I go to every Bulldogs game thinking they will win over the last couple of years. If you go to a game or even watch a game thinking you will lose, you shouldn't be in my opinion supporting the Bulldogs. I'm not a fan of 'negative supporters'. Negativity is supposed to come from supporters of other teams, not your own. We can criticise poor performances and the likes, but to think your team will not do well or win every possible game is not a true supporter in my books.

[LostDoggy]

The worst decision of the lot.

Clearly the umpire guessed, and he guessed wrong.

Was a terrible decision.

[mjp]

Er, no.

Hargrave, Hudson, Ward for starters.

I agree with Ward and Hudson - both bad. But so was the Hayes one (2nd q), Jones (early 3rd). Or maybe I am not as distressed about the decisions now I know the result?

The Hargrave one in the second quarter after the kick-out? That is holding the ball every day of the week....maybe I have blacked something else out of my mind?

The Lake one upsets me because I am still not even sure what the kick was for or what basis it was paid upon.

[comrade]

The Hargrave one in the second quarter after the kick-out? That is holding the ball every day of the week....maybe I have blacked something else out of my mind?


SS is referring to the one where Hargrave got pinged for dropping the ball after kicking it 30m.

[mjp]

All I know is I go to every Bulldogs game thinking they will win over the last couple of years. If you go to a game or even watch a game thinking you will lose, you shouldn't be in my opinion supporting the Bulldogs. I'm not a fan of 'negative supporters'. Negativity is supposed to come from supporters of other teams, not your own. We can criticise poor performances and the likes, but to think your team will not do well or win every possible game is not a true supporter in my books.

Fair enough. If you mean me though I am pretty certain you wont find me criticising players after games...Supporters who bag their own are the ones we dont want.

If you go to the game in hope and support your team, what is wrong with that? I usually think we will win - some games are 50-50, others worse I guess (though not too many in 08/09) but if the only supporters attending games in late 2007 were those who actually expecting a win well, attendances would have been even worse. Those 3 consecutive Friday night games...I was walking up Spencer St with dread!

[The Coon Dog]

SS is referring to the one where Hargrave got pinged for dropping the ball after kicking it 30m.

Resulted in Dal Santo kicking their first goal.

[mjp]

SS is referring to the one where Hargrave got pinged for dropping the ball after kicking it 30m.

I must have blocked it out of my mind. I remember the Harbrow kick to Hargrave, Hargrave tries to run around McQualter(?) and gets pinned in the 2nd - I can see it clear as day...but nothing else.

Sorry.

[chef]

I must have blocked it out of my mind. I remember the Harbrow kick to Hargrave, Hargrave tries to run around McQualter(?) and gets pinned in the 2nd - I can see it clear as day...but nothing else.

Sorry.

It's probably better not to remember it.

[Sockeye Salmon]

All I know is I go to every Bulldogs game thinking they will win over the last couple of years. If you go to a game or even watch a game thinking you will lose, you shouldn't be in my opinion supporting the Bulldogs. I'm not a fan of 'negative supporters'. Negativity is supposed to come from supporters of other teams, not your own. We can criticise poor performances and the likes, but to think your team will not do well or win every possible game is not a true supporter in my books.

You must hate me then. I haven't picked us to win a game since 1998.

I've never sat at the ground and screamed out "You're crap, {insert Bulldogs player here}", though. They're the ones I hate.

[Remi Moses]

I think we're in with a shout definately. Little bit strange that analogy with Socceroo supporters,we are a minnow when it comes to the world stage let's be honest.The thing that disturbs me is that we continually get jumped in big finals [in particular the Cats]. Any neutral fan would agree that the Stkilda game 3 major points 1] S*it officiating 2] Lack of a get out power forward 3] not making the most of opportunities.

[Dazza]

I'm not sure why but I never really go into any game completely confident of a win.

[Swoop]

Glen Archer made a career out of believing he was going to get beaten in every game he played. Likewise Robert Harvey had a terrible fear of failure and it was that fear that led to him being so bsessive and ultimately so succesful. Believing you're not going to win every game isn't neccessarily a bad thing. Sure I understand the pessimist going over board but most people are simply level headed and realistic enough to see the pros and cons of both teams and form an opinon from there.

It's the people who form a negative opinion on a player and refuse to acknowledge any specific performances that are most dissappointing as they refuse to give the player a chance because of previous impressions. Using Mantis as an example his dislike of Eagleton is well known but likewise he can acknowledge when he has done something positive others however refuse to change their opinions regardless of a players efforts in any given game or situation

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm not sure why but I never really go into any game completely confident of a win.

This.

Whilst I am always optimistic that we can win, no matter the opponent, I never see us a lock. The Dogs have given us great reason over the years to be cautious.

2009 was perhaps a little different but we still slipped up against sides like West Coast and Carlton.

[Swoop]

Oops double post

[Hotdog60]

Sorry guys, I'm the eternal optimist. I believe the Dogs will never lose regardless of who we play and I reflect this in my footy tipping. I have never won a tipping comp in my life and I have lost numerous bets with other teams supporters.

Even the last 40 years of following the dogs and yes even during the dark and desperate times I still think on the day the Dogs will win.

Yes I maybe mentally disturb but I just can't go against them. It's just doesn't feel right.

[LostDoggy]

Don't worry HotDogs. I have a similar mindset to you ;)

I always tip dogs to even in the dark days

[AndrewP6]

Sorry guys, I'm the eternal optimist. I believe the Dogs will never lose regardless of who we play and I reflect this in my footy tipping. I have never won a tipping comp in my life and I have lost numerous bets with other teams supporters.

Even the last 40 years of following the dogs and yes even during the dark and desperate times I still think on the day the Dogs will win.

Yes I maybe mentally disturb but I just can't go against them. It's just doesn't feel right.

I'm a pessimist, but as far as tipping goes, I'm with you, Hotdog... I never tip against us... the last time I did that, was in about 2003. We were shite, and not expected to win (can't for the life of me remember the opponent!) and the boys went and bloody won! So from then on, I tipped in our favour. For quite some time it didn't pay off, the last few years have been much better obviously. Had a win in '09 at work, so I'm sticking with us.

Still get the jitters before games though....

[boydogs]

I think we are a huge chance. A lot of other non-Dogs supporters have suggested to me that we are as well. Early days but I am tipping a premiership

[Go_Dogs]

Using Mantis as an example his dislike of Eagleton is well known but likewise he can acknowledge when he has done something positive

Surely you jest! :D

[Mofra]

Positive expectancy is a term used in trading rooms - the confidence to execute a plan and that in the majority of cases that will result in profit. Without this positive expectancy, you may as well not show up.

I hate the underdog tag personally (not the username FTR ;)) - it's the mindset of a competitor lacking confidence in professional sport.

I remember Terry Wallce during his playing days discussing the difference between the successful Hawthorn side he came from, and the Bulldogs side he was with. At the Hawks, 3 goals down with 5 minutes to go, the entire playing group would be thinking "we're going to win this". At the Bulldogs, 3 goals up with 5 minutes to go, the mindset was "I hope we can hang on". That's crap. I don't think we'll ever win anything with a mindset of just trying to hang on - we need the confidence in our gameplan and ourselves to believe we can win everytime we step out on the field and I believe we need this belief to be so all-encompassing it extends to the supporter group as well.

[EasternWest]

I'm not sure why but I never really go into any game completely confident of a win.

I think that's how I feel too. And I see it as healthy. I mean, translate it to the players, if they went into every game thinking it's a sure thing, there's a good chance they'll get jumped. I like players (and fans) being aware that no win will come without work, and if you do the work and still lose, well then at least you can walk off without feeling ashamed (but not depressed!).

Losing can be healthy. Losing poorly is never healthy.

As for BR's original post, yes, I think we actually are good enough to win this year. It doesn't mean we will, it doesn't mean we're a lock. IMO it means we have pretty close to the right mix now and hopefully the stars align with injury and form.

Yes we got some shockers in the St Kilda game, but we still did enough things right that were we good/effective enough earlier we wouldn't have been in that precarious position where a bad call will influence the result.

No umpiring error will ever cost a game. It might be the catalyst for a reversal of luck at the death thus resulting in a loss, but if things are done right throughout the game, we will hopefully not be in that position again.

I have faith we can win it all this year. I'm optimistic. But I'm realistic too. We must take it.

God I'm fired up.

[LostDoggy]

Absolutely I believe we can win it but we will need a lot of hard work and a lot to go right.

As far as expectations, I go into each game, especially this year and last, thinking we can win. Our list on paper is formidable in the least and no team would go into a game against us without concern.

I reckon Rocket said it a few years back about changing the 'culture of mediocrity', lets create the expectation of success and work towards it.

[LostDoggy]

Sorry guys, I'm the eternal optimist. I believe the Dogs will never lose regardless of who we play and I reflect this in my footy tipping. I have never won a tipping comp in my life and I have lost numerous bets with other teams supporters.

Even the last 40 years of following the dogs and yes even during the dark and desperate times I still think on the day the Dogs will win.

Yes I maybe mentally disturb but I just can't go against them. It's just doesn't feel right.
Same here, never tipped against the dogs in my life (59 years). I think we have a chance to win every game we play. In the dark times, I have thought how hard it will be to win, but still believe we can win.
I have won footing tipping comps, in some of our good years.

[LostDoggy]

Sure - we have claims to be in the top 3 sides. But this time last year Hawthorn were unbackable premiership favorites and didn't even make the 8.


Were they? Maybe by media pundits, but most of them are just sheep anyway (which is why I'm not putting much stock in their predictions of Dogs favouritism this year -- most of it is largely based on our recruitment of Barry Hall!). It's not like they do any deep analysis, most just go on last year's results and rehash the previous year's table moving a few teams up and down based on the last few weeks of the season.

Those who were doing deeper analysis would have found a lot of the Hawthorn players struggling with a shortened pre-season, a clear premiership hangover, a couple of key retirements, unrepeatable 'career best' seasons etc. -- I remember quite a few of us here at least picking them to barely make the 8, so I think WOOF posters as a whole is actually a pretty deep thinking, analytical bunch not prone to jumping on bandwagons willy-nilly.



It isn't going to be easy. I just see a lot of self satisfaction around at the moment, a lot of confidence, and we haven't (like the Australian soccer team) actually accomplished anything noteworthy in 2010.

It's never easy, and I think most of the guys would know that with the last 5 years of close ones and heartache behind them. Most of them lived through 2007 too, remember.

The Australian soccer team is another story altogether -- in a World Cup it's really more about where you get to than how you get there: there have been teams that have barely won a game that have made it through to the semi-finals/finals on penalties. A second-round last-minute loss to the eventual champions was a creditable (I said creditable, not fantastic) effort, especially when you consider the style of football we played (in contrast to our usual tactical naiviety).

[stefoid]

We are improving - the mental attitude going into the season is obviously hardening and we are aiming higher. I thought our finals series last year was the most credible I have seen since...well, I wont say when. And against very good opposition.

Plus, the cattle we are putting on the park is improving year on year as well, and this year with the addition of barry hall which is very significant, and the emergence of a few of the younger players, we will be better again.

I reckon that this year, any of the top 4 or 5 teams could win the flag, depending on injuries.

[LostDoggy]

That's all fair enough, but saying we 'Should Have' beaten Geelong is just not right. We never looked like winning and blaming it on 'not coming to play' is just a complete cop out. With the Saints, they took their chances, we didn't. I don't like blaming luck - I would point to easy goals being missed by experienced players...as for the dodgey umpiring comment, I felt pretty agrieved at the time but when you watch it again it is only the Lake / Riewoldt incident that stands out...there were good and bad decisions both ways aside from that. Basically, I am seeing and hearing a lot of excuses about how
Geelong and St Kilda beat us in the finals last year, but the simple fact remains - they beat us, and they haven't exactly gone backwards (though Geelong are getting old I admit) and the other challengers are coming.

Sure - we have claims to be in the top 3 sides. But this time last year Hawthorn were unbackable premiership favorites and didn't even make the 8. I just think there is as much to worry about as there is to be excited about - there have been equal parts good and bad about this off-season and we face an incredible challenge just to get back to the point where things ended last year...there are no free passes - some sides below us seem to have improved remarkably based on early season evidence (West Coast and North in particular) and they will be coming after us. Every side knows our keys now, Higgins will find himself under incredible pressure from the opposition and more time will be put into stopping Harbrow's run...

It isn't going to be easy. I just see a lot of self satisfaction around at the moment, a lot of confidence, and we haven't (like the Australian soccer team) actually accomplished anything noteworthy in 2010.

Outstanding post MJP, very level headed and beautifully sums up where we are the the moment!!

[stefoid]

you cant say what happened to hawthorn is 'something we have to worry about'. They got hit by a combination of lots of injuries to key players and complacency after having just won a grand final. The first is not something you have control over and the second doesnt apply.

[MrMahatma]

you cant say what happened to hawthorn is 'something we have to worry about'. They got hit by a combination of lots of injuries to key players and complacency after having just won a grand final. The first is not something you have control over and the second doesnt apply.
Is our side better than last year?

Have key players had better pre-seasons?

Have we recruited for needs?

Do we have fewer injuries?

I think we're a massive chance. The thing is, a good list will only get you so far- you can go undefeated all year, win the first week of the finals by 15 goals - but you still have to win the Prelim. And for me, my biggest, BIGGEST fear, is that we lose another prelim. If we do that, how do you back up after losing 3 in a row? How do you not feel like a chocker? I'd rather we missed the 8 to be honest. If we lost the PF again this year, I think this squad will never get any further.

[Mofra]

Is our side better than last year?

Have key players had better pre-seasons?

Have we recruited for needs?

Do we have fewer injuries?
1. Yes*
2. Yes - Cooney & Murphy in particular
3. Yes - some rough looking bloke from Sydney
4. At the moment but we're not counting chickens yet. A fit Tiller or Reid would make me happier from a depth point of view; I hope Minson recovers early in the season too.


* Yes overall - but it only really matters in the context of how much we've improved in comparison to other teams doesn't it? That is the great unknown.

[mjp]

Is our side better than last year?

Have key players had better pre-seasons?

Have we recruited for needs?

Do we have fewer injuries?


We dont know.

In theory, but the overall program has evolved as has that at other clubs...all we know is that some of our upper echelon aren't injured this year. Whether we will have the same 'legs' late in games is tbd.

We have Hall. Beyond that, no - we have recruited for the long term.

Yes. At the moment, anyway.

I also dispute the 'I would rather miss the 8' comment. Winning less than 12-games would be a tragedy.

[Mantis]

In theory, but the overall program has evolved as has that at other clubs...all we know is that some of our upper echelon aren't injured this year. Whether we will have the same 'legs' late in games is tbd.

All things being equal we will.

Reports after xmas were that up to a dozen players had improved their PB's in respect to the TT they held. We were in the top couple teams last year in terms of fitness and if our players are improving it all points to our team remaining there.

[Go_Dogs]

2. Yes - Cooney & Murphy in particular


Don't forget our other most important player in Lake who had hip surgery last year and from memory took a while to get back into full training.

[Mofra]

Don't forget our other most important player in Lake who had hip surgery last year and from memory took a while to get back into full training.
True that.

The major injury concern is Minson, however Roughead has show that despite being raw he could battle it out as our no 2 for a couple of games in the interim.

[LostDoggy]

The major injury concern is Minson, however Roughead has show that despite being raw he could battle it out as our no 2 for a couple of games in the interim.

I have to say that this is my major concern for the list -- a couple of games in the interim is one thing, but with Minnow's dramas it could end up being a whole lot more than that, and that would be a MASSIVE hole in our structure -- Huddo and his wonderful beard could never be one of those 100% game time type ruckmen so we look very, very light on in this department.

[mjp]

All things being equal we will.

Reports after xmas were that up to a dozen players had improved their PB's in respect to the TT they held. We were in the top couple teams last year in terms of fitness and if our players are improving it all points to our team remaining there.

Yeah...but I suspect Davoren's program caught a few other sides by surprise last year...this year they will have adjusted.

[LostDoggy]

THey may have adjusted, but so have we even more so. One step ahead ;) :P

[ledge]

I have picked Roughead in my Superfooty team expecting him to play more games than most expect.

[LostDoggy]

I have picked Roughead in my Superfooty team expecting him to play more games than most expect.

Ditto.