GC compo backflip.

[chef]

THE AFL has recalled the team that helped hatch the Gold Coast compensatory rules, raising Geelong's hopes of getting a fair deal for Gary Ablett if he walks to the new club.
After spending 18 months reviewing models to appease clubs, the influential seven-member sub-committee thought its job was done when Gold Coast's entry rules were announced in May.

Now, the key football club staff have been summoned back to the AFL and are poised to re-convene within a fortnight.

Significant change is a possibility after complaints from clubs.

Geelong was last night buoyed by the development, with Cats chief executive Brian Cook declaring: "It's promising for everyone. There's some flexibility there, it would seem."

The Cats have led the way on the issue, describing the compensation formula for a marquee player of Ablett's status as a "joke".

Geelong wants two first-round picks for Ablett if he leaves.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/compo-backflip/story-e6frecjc-1225848254060

[The Coon Dog]

If it wasn't Gary Ablett, would the AFL have done anything at all? I doubt it.

[LostDoggy]

If it wasn't Gary Ablett, would the AFL have done anything at all? I doubt it.

Agreed but it must be reviewed. Getting Pick 26 for a player of his quality is nonsense. I wouldn't be happy with that for Harbrow.

[Sockeye Salmon]

It seems pretty easy to me.

Link it to the players salary over the length of his contract.

>$1m/year = GC's 1st & 10th picks
$800-900K = GC's 1st pick
$600-800K/year = GC's 3rd pick
$500-600K/year = GC's 5th pick
$400-500K/year = GC's 7th pick
$300-400K/year = GC's 10th pick


I've put no thought whatsoever into the salary/picks above but you get the drift.

Personally, I'd take the picks off GC rather than punish every team by dropping them down a few picks each. Don't forget that GC can steal up to 16 players. This would mean the premiers 2nd pick would be about ridiculous pick 66 rather than an already pathetic pick 50*.


*NB. I don't actually know what pick the premiers 2nd pick will be next year - I'm guessing - and with Liberatore and Wallis coming to us I don't care either.

[Mofra]

Agreed but it must be reviewed. Getting Pick 26 for a player of his quality is nonsense. I wouldn't be happy with that for Harbrow.
I don't want them getting two first rounders either.

Worth remembering they got him for a 3rd rounder due to the old F/S rule and that should be taken into account in calculating compensaton.

[chef]

*NB. I don't actually know what pick the premiers 2nd pick will be next year - I'm guessing - and with Liberatore and Wallis coming to us I don't care either.

We are very lucky to have this happening this year:).

[Bulldog4life]

I don't want them getting two first rounders either.

Worth remembering they got him for a 3rd rounder due to the old F/S rule and that should be taken into account in calculating compensaton.

Good point. On the other hand, if that is taken into account and someone like Harbrow left, the fact we got him in the rookie draft would be bad for us.

[Topdog]

Good point. On the other hand, if that is taken into account and someone like Harbrow left, the fact we got him in the rookie draft would be bad for us.

Why? That was good work and recruiting by us. Getting a F/S is just having something fall into your lap at way under odds with the old system.

[Bulldog4life]

Why? That was good work and recruiting by us. Getting a F/S is just having something fall into your lap at way under odds with the old system.

I'm not saying it wasn't good recruiting by us. It was fantastic recruiting.
I'm not talking about Ablett. I was commenting on the rating system that the AFL "might" use to rate a player. If part of the criteria was that the AFL took into account at what position in the draft a player was initially drafted.....in other words if he is drafted in the first round a Club would get a better draft pick than if the same player was recruited in the 4th or 5th round or even rookie draft.

Therefore if we lost an initially rookie listed player it wouldn't be good for us draft concession wise. I am only talking hypothetically.

[Topdog]

I'm not saying it wasn't good recruiting by us. It was fantastic recruiting.
I'm not talking about Ablett. I was commenting on the rating system that the AFL "might" use to rate a player. If part of the criteria was that the AFL took into account at what position in the draft a player was initially drafted.....in other words if he is drafted in the first round a Club would get a better draft pick than if the same player was recruited in the 4th or 5th round or even rookie draft.

Therefore if we lost an initially rookie listed player it wouldn't be good for us draft concession wise. I am only talking hypothetically.

They shouldn't take into account what round he was drafted in, they should take into account that he was gifted to them with a 3rd round pick because he was the son of Gary Ablett.

If today's system was in place they would have had him in the 2nd round.

[Bulldog4life]

They shouldn't take into account what round he was drafted in, they should take into account that he was gifted to them with a 3rd round pick because he was the son of Gary Ablett.

If today's system was in place they would have had him in the 2nd round.

If you read my post that you responded to I said I wasn't talking about Ablett but the possibilities of the system in general.

[chef]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/track-and-yield-deal-to-compensate-for-lost-players-to-gold-coast/story-e6frf9jf-1225859032447

Mark Stevens From: Herald Sun April 28, 2010 12:00AMTHE recipe is as top secret as the Colonel's own.


We know there are herbs and spices - age, original draft position, salary rating, best-and-fairest results and All-Australian selections - but the weighting of each will remain a mystery.

That is why the formula to decide compensation for players lost to Gold Coast is open to howls of discontent from clubs that it is too subjective.

It is also open to rorting in the area of best-and-fairests.

What's to stop a club tinkering with its club champion award slightly to ensure a Gold Coast target finishes a spot or two higher?

It has happened before at clubs, when the incentive was not as great.

A top-five finish might be enough to boost a departing player's value from a second to a first-round pick.


But as the AFL reviews its formula, with an eye to compensating a club for the loss of a marquee star like Gary Ablett, it has a reputable alternative right under its nose.

For the first time, the AFL's official statistician Champion Data has attached a points value to every player in the league based on SuperCoach rankings, past and present form, experience and where they stack up against other rival players in similar positions on the ground.

It is the AFL's version of tennis's ATP points system and it could be the best way to decide compensation - without a whiff of subjectivity.

Every player in the competition now has a points ranking out of 30, with Champion Data providing an accurate list of where a player sits at each club.

It forms the basis of the Herald Sun Full Strength Indicator, which ranks the relative strength of each team each week, taking into account the value of absentees.

Using the system, every player ranked at a maximum 30 points could be classed as a "marquee" player worth two first-round picks.

Seven other players join Ablett in the elite 30-point class.

Ablett's teammate Joel Selwood, also a Gold Coast target, is worth 26 points - equal seventh at Geelong. Under the formula, he has paid the price for a slight dip in form this season.

Jared Brennan, the Lion linked to GC17, is worth 24 points - equal fourth at Brisbane.

Using guidelines to match the ratings, Geelong would receive a first-round pick in return for Selwood and the Lions would get a pick at the end of the first round for Brennan.

Bulldog Jarrod Harbrow, strongly linked to GC17, is worth 23 points (equal 10th at the club) and worthy of a second-round pick.Campbell Brown is also worth 23 points (equal eighth at Hawthorn).

The ratings change week by week, fluctuating slightly on form.

By the end of the season, when compensation is dished out, they should be even more accurate.

Ken Wood, the salary cap cop, will oversee the workings of the AFL's secret recipe.

As if he hasn't got enough on his plate. Hand it over to the stats guys.

FORMULA EXPLAINED

Players have been coded into position, which are made up by general defender, key defender, general forward, key forward, midfielder and ruck.

Players can be coded in more than one position, however, a primary position is assigned to each player. For the purposes of scoring players in each category, the primary position is used for players who fill more than one position.

As a result, like players are compared with each other and not across the entire competition. This is to ensure parity across a squad, rather than the midfielders being over scored due to their prevalence for ranking higher than other positions.

Five factors are used to make up a player’s strength rating. These factors are:- Form, Class, Experience, Versatility and Auto Selection. The score for each of these categories is totaled to obtain the overall strength score for the player.

The factors and how they are derived is described below.

Form

The Champion Data rankings are used to compile this factor which is a measure of the player’s recent performance.

Players are scored on the previous five rounds of the competition e.g. for round 6, 2010, rounds 1-5 will be the relevant period of games. Allowances are made for returning players. If a player has missed no games in the last 5, they get 100% of their average score, one game in the last 5 they get 80%, two games = 60%, 3 games = 40% and 4 games = 20%.

A player is measured against the other players for that position and his raw score is ranked into one of 10 groups. The players in the best form get a 10, down to a 1 for the players with poor form. Players with no games in the last 5, get a 0.

These ratings are dynamic and could change from week to week as the distribution of scores changes amongst a position.

Class

This is a measure of the long term performance of a player. The rankings are used for the previous 22 games of a player, no matter how long it has taken to play those games.

Ranking is done by position type using the player’s average. A score is given between 1 and 10 with 10 being for players with the highest average ranking points over the 22 games and 1 the lowest. Players yet to debut are given 0.



Auto Select

This is derived from a player’s history over the past 3 seasons (including the current one) and whether they played AFL, lower grade (e.g. VFL, QAFL), were injured or were suspended.

To be auto select a player must not have been dropped in a season. If they did play a lower grade, it must have been on return from injury and they must not play any more than 5 games in the seconds. A player is given a score of 1 for each season they have been ‘auto select’ up to a maximum of 3 points.



Versatility

Players can fall into general and key defender, general and key forward, ruck and midfielder. The A player can score a maximum of 3 points here is they fill 3 positions, down to a 1 for players who fill one position. This factor is not as dynamic as form, class and experience but can be updated during the season as players fill different roles.

Experience

The career games for a player are used to compare with other players in that position and a score of 1 to 5 is given, with 5 being the most experienced players and 1 the least experienced. A player who is yet to debut receives a 0 for experience

[Mantis]

Gold Coast compo boost

* Mark Stevens
* From: Herald Sun
* May 04, 2010 12:00AM


An independent panel of experts could now have the final call on a player's worth as the AFL looks to close every loophole in its contentious Gold Coast compensation formula.

Support is mounting for human judgment to be a factor, amid fears the present criteria may lead to clubs copping a raw deal in some instances.

The panel would provide checks and balances, having the ability to straighten out any anomaly the system creates.

Support for an expert panel gathered pace when a seven-member sub-committee responsible for reviewing compensation models reconvened last month.


Click for remainder:
LINK (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/gold-coast-compo-boost/story-e6frf9jf-1225861781362)

[chef]

So we should end up with a pick at the end of the first round or in the second round(depending on how Harbrow goes for the rest of the season) and with 5 years to use it. Hell of a lot better than what we would have originally received.

[Mantis]

Deal has been finalised, good luck trying to understand how it works....

Compo deal cut on stars

By Adam McNicol
1:00 PM Wed 23 June, 2010

The AFL has boosted the level of compensation that will be available to clubs whose star players join expansion teams Gold Coast or Greater Western Sydney.

Under the system, clubs will receive two first-round picks in the national draft if they lose an uncontracted player judged by the League to be the ‘top echelon’ of talent.

The first compensation selection will be placed immediately after that club’s selection in round one of that year’s draft, while the second selection will be placed at the midpoint of round one, after the teams that have missed the finals have had their round-one selection.

Link to the rest (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/96805/default.aspx)

[mighty_west]

Deal has bene finalised, good luck trying to understand how it works....

Compo deal cut on stars

By Adam McNicol
1:00 PM Wed 23 June, 2010

The AFL has boosted the level of compensation that will be available to clubs whose star players join expansion teams Gold Coast or Greater Western Sydney.

Under the system, clubs will receive two first-round picks in the national draft if they lose an uncontracted player judged by the League to be the ‘top echelon’ of talent.

The first compensation selection will be placed immediately after that club’s selection in round one of that year’s draft, while the second selection will be placed at the midpoint of round one, after the teams that have missed the finals have had their round-one selection.

Link to the rest (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/96805/default.aspx)

Seems a much fairer way of compsensation to clubs than what was talked about a few months ago...IF Ablett does go, Geelong should hold onto their 2 first round picks, wait 3-5 years when they bottom out, and have picks 1,2 & 3 in the draft.

[mighty_west]

Clubs would be crazy to use up the compo picks in the next 2 drafts, if we can only squeeze a second rounder for Harbrow [if he goes], then he is only worth a pick in the 40's, the selection most likely after Liberatore, if we wait for the 2012 draft, that slection will most likely be in the 20's, and we'll also hopefully get another leg up if Hunter is highly rated in that draft.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Seems a much fairer way of compsensation to clubs than what was talked about a few months ago...IF Ablett does go, Geelong should hold onto their 2 first round picks, wait 3-5 years when they bottom out, and have picks 1,2 & 3 in the draft.
According to the rules as per the article, Geelong would not have pick 1,2,3.
Geelong would- based on your scenario (presuming they finished last) would have pick 1,2 & then they would have another in the middle of the 1st round after those teams who missed the finals had their pick.

[Topdog]

I don't see anywhere in the article stating that the picks will be 1 & 2. It only says 2 first round picks which could be 10 and 16 for all we know.

[soupman]

Top dog, the picks are not set in stone as any particular number.

The first pick to receive comes immediately after that clubs first round draft choice, so if you have pick 13 it becomes pick 14, if you have pick 8 it becomes pick 9, and as in the example given above if you finish last and have pick 1 it becomes 2.

The second pick occurs in the middle of the first round, ideally as pick 9 assuming there are no priority picks and no other club has used their compensation picks. It will be interesting to see how distorted first rounds could be in the near future when three clubs are using their bonus first round pick and another is chucking one in the middle while two clubs have priority picks going at either end of the first round. We could see a first round like the following:

1. Richmond (priority)
2. Richmond
3. Melbourne
4. St.Kilda
5. St.Kilda (GC compo pick for Riewoldt)
6. North Melbourne
7. North Melbourne (GWS compo pick for Ziebell)
8. Hawthorn
9. Essendon
10. Fremantle
11. West Coast
12. Geelong (Middle rnd bonus pick from GC for Gablett)
13. St.Kilda (As with pick 12 except Riewoldt)
14. Port Adelaide
15. Port Adelaide (GWS compo pick for Boak)
16. Adelaide
17. Brisbane
18. Gold Coast
19. Greater West Sydney Wolves
20. Sydney
21. Carlton
22. Collingwood
23. Geelong
24. Geelong (GC compo pick for Gablett)
25. Western Bulldogs (Premiership pick)

26. Melbourne (Priority Pick)

Then the second round begins.

[divvydan]

There is no set position for when the picks are, other than the additional mid first round pick announced.

If we assume that:
AFL will have 10 finalists from 2012 onwards and for example Geelong would wait until at least 2012 to use a hypothetical 'top echelon' compensation package (as that would be next uncompromised draft) then;

If they finished 18th, they would get 1,2 and 10
If they finished 12th, they would get 7,8 and 10
If they finished 8th, they would get 9, 12 and 13
If they finished 4th, they would get 9, 16 and 17
If they finished 1st, they would get 9, 19 and 20

Obivously, there might also be other clubs that claim compensation picks in the same year which could potentially push that out further but the above gives a general idea of what the ladder pick and the compensation package would amount to.

[FrediKanoute]

There is no set position for when the picks are, other than the additional mid first round pick announced.

If we assume that:
AFL will have 10 finalists from 2012 onwards and for example Geelong would wait until at least 2012 to use a hypothetical 'top echelon' compensation package (as that would be next uncompromised draft) then;

If they finished 18th, they would get 1,2 and 10
If they finished 12th, they would get 7,8 and 10
If they finished 8th, they would get 9, 12 and 13
If they finished 4th, they would get 9, 16 and 17
If they finished 1st, they would get 9, 19 and 20
Obivously, there might also be other clubs that claim compensation picks in the same year which could potentially push that out further but the above gives a general idea of what the ladder pick and the compensation package would amount to.

So worst case is that a team will get 3 picks inside the top 20......doesn't sound too bad to me!

[divvydan]

So worst case is that a team will get 3 picks inside the top 20......doesn't sound too bad to me!

In it's simplest form yes, for a 'top echelon' player (probably only Griffen of those yet to have contract renewed falls into that section), although as soupaman showed just before, it can get more complicated once priority picks and other clubs' compensation picks are added to the mix.

[The Coon Dog]

Age now key to draft picks payoff

Mark Stevens - Herald Sun - 24 June


It may become known as the Boak-Harbrow rule.

While the talk yesterday was about Geelong snaring two first-round picks if Gary Ablett goes to the Gold Coast, the change to the league's compensation formula was as much about emerging players such as Travis Boak and Jarrod Harbrow.

The jungle drums suggest Harbrow is all but gone to GC17 and Boak is not far behind. Believe it or not, at the moment both could be judged as valuable as Ablett.

Age and what Gold Coast is prepared to pay are the key factors in determining a player's worth.

Article in full... (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/age-now-key-to-draft-picks-payoff/story-e6frf9ox-1225883452013)

[Mofra]

As much as I'd hate to lose the Brow, Our 2010 & 2012 drafts would look very good if this occurred (the Ablett article states compo picks are off-limits in 2011 when WS18 pillages the draft).

[comrade]

If Harbrow hasn't made a decision yet (big if), would knowing we're going to get more fairly compensated make it easier for him to leave?

It would be ironic if the compo backflip actually assisted in Harbrow leaving.

[Mofra]

If Harbrow hasn't made a decision yet (big if), would knowing we're going to get more fairly compensated make it easier for him to leave?

It would be ironic if the compo backflip actually assisted in Harbrow leaving.
I actually think it could. No doubt he'd be torn between leaving his teammates and the club that gave him a shot as a rookie, and being reunited with his girlfriend and a handy payrise.

I think players can leave a club with no ill will between the parties, ie Birss & Skipper.
Given his personal situation, I'd be upset if the Brow left but not bitter.

[comrade]

I actually think it could. No doubt he'd be torn between leaving his teammates and the club that gave him a shot as a rookie, and being reunited with his girlfriend and a handy payrise.

I think players can leave a club with no ill will between the parties, ie Birss & Skipper.
Given his personal situation, I'd be upset if the Brow left but not bitter.

Rationally, I shouldn't be bitter, but I will be. He's going to be an elite player, either down back or in the midfield, and would have been a great leader at our club.

Can't Julia do something? :D

[Desipura]

Is part of the reason we are playing him midfield to improve his value? We can then argue he has been a very rebounding back pocket as well as midfielder in recent times.

[Mantis]

Is part of the reason we are playing him midfield to improve his value? We can then argue he has been a very rebounding back pocket as well as midfielder in recent times.

I would think the sole reason would be to develop him as a player such that he will help us win more games.

Our midfield is a bit on the slow side so the injection of Harbrow certainly adds to our pace.

[bornadog]

Is part of the reason we are playing him midfield to improve his value? We can then argue he has been a very rebounding back pocket as well as midfielder in recent times.

We played him midfield last week because dumb WestCoast thought they would play the land of the giants against us and outstretch us, so leaving Harbrow without a match up.

[Mantis]

We played him midfield last week because dumb WestCoast thought they would play the land of the giants against us and outstretch us, so leaving Harbrow without a match up.

Who should have been playing the 'crumbing' role?

[Desipura]

I would think the sole reason would be to develop him as a player such that he will help us win more games.

Our midfield is a bit on the slow side so the injection of Harbrow certainly adds to our pace.
Yes I know, Im just trying to dig deeper......... you know, develop him as a player that will benefit us in every single way for today and tomorrow if you know what I mean.

[chef]

Compensation revealed for Nathan Bock, Nathan Krakouer

THE Crows will appeal the AFL's proposed compensation for losing Nathan Bock to the Gold Coast, saying it is "grossly inadequate".
The AFL announced this afternoon the compensation Adelaide and Port Adelaide will receive for losing players to the Gold Coast Suns.

The Suns announced earlier this week they had signed Nathan Bock and Nathan Krakouer.

The league announced today that Adelaide would get a selection at the end of the first round, while Port Adelaide would receive one after its second round pick.

Adelaide said that was it was “grossly inadequate”.

Crows football operations general manager Phil Harper said the club was disappointed with the AFL’s decision.


“We believe that if Nathan was available on the open market he would certainly attract much more than a first round draft pick from another club,” Harper said.

“He was an All-Australian two years ago when he also won our club champion award , is only 27 and if he was still on our list right now he would be rated right near the top. We believe that compensation for a player of Nathan’s ilk would a minimum of band two, which equates to the same in 2010 and 2011 but would be after our first round pick in any of the next three drafts.

“Because of all this, the club owes it to our members and supporters to strongly appeal this decision to the AFL.”

Both clubs can elect to use that pick in any of the drafts from this year until 2014.

Clubs can trade that pick to another club.

The AFL said the lodgement of the respective contract offers to players Bock and Krakouer by the Gold Coast FC meant the club could not automatically select another uncontracted player from either of those two clubs, but can sign delisted players from them or organise separate trades.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/compensation-revealed-for-nathan-bock-nathan-krakouer/story-e6frf9jf-1225913435107

Looks like we may only end up with one first round pick for Harbrow.:(

[Remi Moses]

Why they just give us a can of coke and a packet of chips! Honestly what an insult to the clubs