Game Day - R3 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

[BulldogBelle]

This is the discussion thread for this Sunday's game at ES against Hawthorn.

My predictions are:

The Dogs by 24 points
BOG : Adam Cooney
Mitch Hahn to kick the first goal.

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 11
BOG: Griffen
Hall first goal

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 9
BOG = Cooney
First goal = Hill

[AndrewP6]

Damnit can't be there....

Dogs by 14
BOG COOOOONEY
First goal Bazza

[KT31]

Dogs by- 36
BOG - Lake
First goal - Hall

[LostDoggy]

This match will prove whether we are big contenders or not in my opinion..
Dogs by 32
BOG Crossy
First goal to Hall

[bornadog]

Dogs by 17

BOG - Boyd

First Goal - Bazza

[boydogs]

Dogs by 20
BOG Hudson
First Goal Higgins

[The Coon Dog]

Dogs by 65 pts.

First goal to Gia.

BOG to Boyd.

[angelopetraglia]

Dogs by 65 pts.

First goal to Gia.

BOG to Boyd.

65 pts! Wow, I hope you are right. I know we owned them last two times, but I'm still having nightmares from the 2008 final series.

Dogs 13 pts

First Goal Hahn

BOG Cooney

[Go_Dogs]

Dogs by 7 points.
First goal Barry Hall.
BOG Adam Cooney.

[KT31]

Dogs by 65 pts.

First goal to Gia.

BOG to Boyd.

Love the confidence TCD.

[The Coon Dog]

Love the confidence TCD.

I just get the feeling they're ripe for the picking this week.

[NoParkingOnMatchDays]

Reckon we'll get them easily. The dogs seem to follow patterns for periods during a season where form leading up to a big game is rough and then we switch it on.

Dogs by 27

BOG my wife as she is letting me go to the footy without the tin lids.

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 16
First Goal Hahn
BOG Murph

[chef]

Dogs by 43
BOG Hudson
First Goal Cooney

[Dazza]

Dogs by 46
BOG Cooney
First goal Akermanis

[mighty_west]

Dogs by 33
First Goal - Hall
BOG - Cooney

[Mantis]

Dogs by 35pts

BOG: Lake
1st goal: Aker

Bring the intensity and clean skills (especially around our F50) and the game is ours.

Missing another one... Damn!! Look forward to reading the reports tonight.

[Happy Days]

Dogs by 21
BOG: Cooney
1st Goal: Barry

If we can actually give Baz some clean delivery this week, he should wipe the floor with Gibson.

[The Underdog]

Dogs by 21
BOG: Cooney
1st Goal: Barry

If we can actually give Baz some clean delivery this week, he should wipe the floor with Gibson.

Baz'll probably get Gilham, and at least one other when the ball comes in.

Dogs by 1.
BOG: Lake
First Goal: Hahn

Never overly confident against the Hawks, even after last year's slaughter.

[The Pie Man]

Looks a smashing day for an afternoon at the footy

Not confident at all though..I tipped us on Thursday, but I've woken up this morning thinking the Dawks might get us today....and if it's not close we'll wear some media heat through the week.

Hawks by 24
Our first goal Hall
Our best Cooney

Clearly I hope I'm completely wrong

[LostDoggy]

Looks a smashing day for an afternoon at the footy

Not confident at all though..I tipped us on Thursday, but I've woken up this morning thinking the Dawks might get us today....and if it's not close we'll wear some media heat through the week.

Hawks by 24
Our first goal Hall
Our best Cooney

Clearly I hope I'm completely wrong

God, i hope your wrong!!

[The Pie Man]

God, i hope your wrong!!

Well I think I'm wrong about the weather at least, so thats a good sign!

Looked great at about 8 this morning, but it's turned very windy since, and showers I see are predicted.

You'd think I'd never lived in Melbourne thinking still sunshine would last :rolleyes:

[BulldogBelle]

Dogs by 41 points
1st Goal = Gia
BOG = Hall

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I just get the feeling they're ripe for the picking this week.
Agree,

Dogs by 43 points
Cross BOG
Higgins first goal

Oh and I think that we will go with Tommy on Roughy as morris will go o peterson.

[Max469]

Dogs by 9 pts

1st goal Murphy

BOG Griff

[Bulldog4life]

Dogs by 20
BOG: Boyd
Hall first goal

[ledge]

Just turn up you will get in , I just turned up for the pies game and got in on membership, no idea why you paid the extra $24.

[LostDoggy]

I'm a person who works on feelings and for some reason I don't like today's game. I'm worried we'll start slow (as we seem to do a lot) and not be able to get back. Sincerely hope my thoughts radar is right off the boil and we win but something doesn't feel good about this game?? My Brother is over there from Tassie for the game so maybe he'll bring some good luck! I'll be playing first game of hockey for the year at 2pm Darwin time - why don't they consult the AFL roster before compiling the draw?!!

Enjoy the game guys and hopefuly the boys do us proud.

Cheers
Hobdog

[LostDoggy]

I'm a person who works on feelings and for some reason I don't like today's game. I'm worried we'll start slow (as we seem to do a lot) and not be able to get back. Sincerely hope my thoughts radar is right off the boil and we win but something doesn't feel good about this game??

I feel a bit nervous too, but this probably stems from the fact we just haven't been in great form. Hope we can take it up a notch today and really get our season on track.

Dogs by 10 points
BOG - GRIFF
First goal - GIA

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Dogs by 19 points
BOG Cooney
First goal Hill

[cinder]

Nice win, but the 3rd quarter shots on goal were very frustrating.
Ran into Johnno outside the coaches' box at 3 quarter time, said hello!

[Go_Dogs]

Any word on the injuries from today?

Just caught Rocket being interviewed in the rooms after the match, and Hargrave apparently has pins and needles in his neck, which isn't good.

[AndrewP6]

Looks a smashing day for an afternoon at the footy

Not confident at all though..I tipped us on Thursday, but I've woken up this morning thinking the Dawks might get us today....and if it's not close we'll wear some media heat through the week.

Hawks by 24
Our first goal Hall
Our best Cooney

Clearly I hope I'm completely wrong

Thank goodness you were! Although Cooney for our best wasn't a bad call ;)

[AndrewP6]

Any word on the injuries from today?

Just caught Rocket being interviewed in the rooms after the match, and Hargrave apparently has pins and needles in his neck, which isn't good.

Heard on the news that Shaggy is undergoing tests at the Epworth Hospital :(

[Go_Dogs]

Pretty solid hit out today.

Thought our rucks were very good, both of them. Generally gave us good use around the clearance, and followed up with some handy work around the ground.

Griffen had over 30 touches, which is a solid return, especially given I thought his first 10-20 minutes were pretty quiet. Managed to get a chase down on Rioli towards the end of the match (not a HTB), which brought a smile to my face. Playing great footy at the moment.

Cooney is so important, always uses the ball well. His left foot, around the corner at pace to Hall(?) was very classy.

Boyd played a ripper, and I really should have him in my votes. Just gets the job done, wins a lot of the contested ball, and provides lots of defensive pressure.

Cross was very good today I thought, after looking like he could be in for a long day early.

Gilbee continued on from last week, and Harbrow is getting his mojo back up and running.

Thought Hill was pretty good today, just continues to bob up with good pieces of play. Must keep him in the side IMO.

Hall had a frustrating start. Not sure what the go was, but until it broke open towards the end, we were struggling to bring the ball in quick enough (or perhaps something else?) to spot Hall up on the lead. That is where he looks most dangerous time and time again - no long kicking onto his head, when he's out-numbered.

Higgins is just class - want the ball in his hands as often as possible. Like the role he's playing at the moment, which seems to me to have more emphasis on getting the ball outside.

Murph was involved in a few crucial bits of play, where his class just shone out. Good at gathering the ball, and quickly summing up a situation.

Thought Gia was alright today, worked pretty hard.

Morris did a few very nice things, good spoils and making a contest at times where it looked like the Hawks could run away with it uncontested, but generally wasn't sighted a whole lot, which I guess means he's quietly going about his business getting the job done.

Williams and Everitt were both good again, they're both starting to get their confidence up at this level, go for their marks and take the game on. Everitt's grab towards the end, and then side-stepping Buddy on the mark was a good sign.

Hahn struggled a bit today, and I don't think Moles played as well as he did last week - but neither disgraced themselves by any stretch.

And special mention to Picken who did a great job on Bateman.


Not looking sharp out the gate continues to be an issue though, and something we need to rectify urgently.

[AndrewP6]

Won't comment at length, as I only heard the radio broadcast, so I'll just be brief. Our goalkicking inaccuracy is woeful. 2.9 in the third quarter is simply not good enough. We should've gone into the last period about 4 goals up. Thank God for Bazza getting great delivery and putting the game away when we needed it.

On a sidenote, I started the game with ABC's informative but dull commentary, and then switched to Triple M's entertaining but often stupid team. At the end of Triple M's call, they took some calls as per usual. Two commentators (Dogs fans) called them on their Cyril Rioli infatuation, and the second of them really got stuck into Quarters. Dunstall and Crawf took it fairly well, admitting to going a bit overboard, but Quarters really got narky, when the caller accused him of bias! I was laughing out loud as he went on, saying he took offence at the remarks. Then to top it off, Spud Frawley called in just to stir them even further.

At least the others owned up to it. Quartermain's petulance was cringe-worthy.
'

[Hotdog60]

I think our biggest test is going to be Brisbane, if we play like we did today we will struggle. This is more on our bad shots for goal, we have to make the most of those shots to be in the game.

The team uses so much energy and you need to get the results, just too many easy shots missed.

[LostDoggy]

Two commentators (Dogs fans) called them on their Cyril Rioli infatuation

Gotta admit, he played 'delicious' footy today :p

[LostDoggy]

I'm a person who works on feelings and for some reason I don't like today's game. I'm worried we'll start slow (as we seem to do a lot) and not be able to get back. Sincerely hope my thoughts radar is right off the boil and we win but something doesn't feel good about this game?? My Brother is over there from Tassie for the game so maybe he'll bring some good luck! I'll be playing first game of hockey for the year at 2pm Darwin time - why don't they consult the AFL roster before compiling the draw?!!

Enjoy the game guys and hopefuly the boys do us proud.

Cheers
Hobdog

Thank god I was wrong! Well done dogs

[LostDoggy]

Eade said Minson is headed to Williamstown with the way he's playing. When someone commented on Lake's good game Eade criticised him turning the ball over, continually zoning of Franklin and not listening to the coaches.

[The Pie Man]

Thank goodness you were! Although Cooney for our best wasn't a bad call ;)

Neither was Hall kicking our first (I got Higgins last week too! Have to claim something when I tipped against us on the thread)

I thought Griff was our best - Rioli would've got 3 votes had they won.

Had a feeling Gibson going off was going to be a turning point...it wasn't, and we ended up as affected by injuries on the day as them.

Good win - is Minson in any trouble with Roughead hot on his heels?

[The Pie Man]

Eade said Minson is headed to Williamstown with the way he's playing. When someone commented on Lake's good game Eade criticised him turning the ball over, continually zoning of Franklin and not listening to the coaches.

Just saw this after my post.

So Roughy to make a debut?

I thought Lake was awesome today, gave Buddy a bath....but given my tip, clearly I know nothing about football!!

I'm sure you all know that anyway :o

[Go_Dogs]

Eade said Minson is headed to Williamstown with the way he's playing. When someone commented on Lake's good game Eade criticised him turning the ball over, continually zoning of Franklin and not listening to the coaches.

:o I gave Lake 4 votes, and said Minson was fairly good today.

[LostDoggy]

I didn't think Minson was good at all today and from listening to the fans around me today, i am not alone. He has been around the club for a while & yet we all seem to be yelling at him for the same old problems. His ruck work is pretty solid most weeks, it's just he around ground & the use of football smarts that lets him down.

[The Pie Man]

I didn't think Minson was good at all today and from listening to the fans around me today, i am not alone. He has been around the club for a while & yet we all seem to be yelling at him for the same old problems. His ruck work is pretty solid most weeks, it's just he around ground & the use of football smarts that lets him down.

That's my view, and it was the same old story today. Did ok at the centre bounce, and gave us little else (bar the kick to Hahn in the last....and he very lucky he had time on his side to afford the fumble)

[GVGjr]

Eade said Minson is headed to Williamstown with the way he's playing. When someone commented on Lake's good game Eade criticised him turning the ball over, continually zoning of Franklin and not listening to the coaches.

I didn't think Lake was that good at all. It's more that Franklin was in such poor form. I agree with Eade that Lakes kicking was poor.

[Go_Dogs]

I didn't think Lake was that good at all. It's more that Franklin was in such poor form. I agree with Eade that Lakes kicking was poor.

He did have a few clanger kicks today, but I thought he generally marshalled the backline well, and did look to provide run.

At the end of the day, I still have terrible memories of the final in 2008, and any game against Hawthorn where Buddy's influence is limited, is a good one in my book - probably why I thought Lake had a good match.

Interesting to read that he wasn't following the coaching instructions - but can certainly agree that he did kick a few poor balls today.

[boydogs]

:o I gave Lake 4 votes, and said Minson was fairly good today.

3 & ditto

[Doc26]

I thought Will's second half was quite good, in particular his third. I'm assuming he might've had a half time bake.

Best were Griffen, Cooney, Gilbee, Lake, Boyd, Cross and Barry's second half. Also thought Josh and Dre provided good contests today.


I didn't think Lake was that good at all. It's more that Franklin was in such poor form.

I don't agree with this opinion. Franklin is a danger in that forward line who had to be mitigated and he was. With Shaggy going down and Dale a bit out of touch a lot was on Bryza today. Just think that Brian currently has Buddy's measure.

[AndrewP6]

Had a quick look at the pics from the game on the AFL website... Josh Hill has the letters "BM" written on the tape on his wrist. Anyone know the significance, or want to hazard a guess?

[ledge]

Macavaney was worse on the television, Rioli only has to be 30 metres from the ball and he is having orgasms.
Wheres the love for Hall ?

[ledge]

I am worried about the injuries, Akers hammy, Hargrave and Picken apparently.
Any updates?

[LostDoggy]

I am more worried about the way we are playing. Yes we have won 2 out of 3 but they haven't been very impressive with the ball. But its still early and we did have a long pre-season and tough NAB cup games. So next week will be a big test.

[LostDoggy]

I am worried about the injuries, Akers hammy, Hargrave and Picken apparently.
Any updates?

Haven't heard anything about Aker but Shaggy is in the Epworth Hospital having tests and Picken is going to miss 2 weeks :mad:

[Hotdog60]

Had a quick look at the pics from the game on the AFL website... Josh Hill has the letters "BM" written on the tape on his wrist. Anyone know the significance, or want to hazard a guess?

'Barry's Mark'

'Big Mark'

'Bad Mudda'

[Doc26]

'Barry's Mark'
'Bad Mudda'


I like it :)

'Black Magic'

[Rance Fan]

I didnt think Cooney did a whole lot today. Great to see Griffen on fire!
Thought Higgins, Murphy great early on up forward.

[Mantis]

I am looking for someone to critique the games of Hahn, Gia & Williams (who did he play on etc) for me.

Sounds like a tough hard fought game... looking forward to watching a replay.

[LostDoggy]

I am worried about the injuries, Akers hammy, Hargrave and Picken apparently.
Any updates?

Haven't heard anything about Aker but Shaggy is in the Epworth Hospital having tests and Picken is going to miss 2 weeks :mad:

[Sockeye Salmon]

I must have been watching a different game to Eade today because I thought Lake was best-on and Minson was excellent.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I must have been watching a different game to Eade today because I thought Lake was best-on and Minson was excellent.

Lake's defensive game on Franklin was superb.

However, his disposal and decision making was very poor. He turned it over far too often and at one point instead of kicking down the line, kicked the ball back into Hawthorns F50 to where they clearly had numbers. They got a goal out of it by memory.

His brain fades need to stop. No point winning the ball if you continually turn it over. Spoiled what was a clinic defensive game.

Minson was poor, too. Too slow, gives away stupid frees and butchered kicks/handballs. The only way he'll keep his spot in the side is if Mitch Clark plays for Brisbane.

[Rance Fan]

I am looking for someone to critique the games of Hahn, Gia & Williams (who did he play on etc) for me.

Sounds like a tough hard fought game... looking forward to watching a replay.

Thought all had ok games. A few good things. Hahn a goal, Gia set up a few, Williams contested fairly and kicked well for a change. All could of done more. Just a pass in an ordinary game.

Also,Thought Picken and Everitt were good, and Hill layed a few tackles early and took a few good marks.
Although Rioli played well and kicked a few i thought Harbrow played well and was attacking.

Was glad Hawks B graders/snipers did nothing - Bateman/Brown. Oh and throw Buddy into that !!

[Hotdog60]

I must have been watching a different game to Eade today because I thought Lake was best-on and Minson was excellent.

Rocket was annoyed with Lake not following instructions and some lazy kicks out of defense, and Will had a couple of brain fades were one was resulting in a 50 metre penalty.

Will's start to the season has had a few infringements which must be wearing thin with Rocket.

[Rance Fan]

I must have been watching a different game to Eade today because I thought Lake was best-on and Minson was excellent.


Lake was solid i thought, Minson ordinary

[The Bulldogs Bite]

On another note, Rioli is brilliant and it's worth paying to watch him play. A lot of players tend to struggle to get themselves up and going after a return game, but he's put in 2 very good performances so far.

He's got to be the quickest player in the comp. He can twist and turn in any direction, hardly losing any pace at all. Harbrow's very quick - but he made Jarrod look slow at times.

One of my favourite players to watch. Not a whole lot we could do to stop him.

[comrade]

Just saw a snippet of the post-match presser; Eade certainly came off the long run with his comments regarding big Will. Publicly putting the acid on a player is a technique he's used before to try and extract better performances.

Will Rocket really pull the trigger and give Minson a spell?

[LostDoggy]

It was a tough game today, and I thought that Cooney, Griff, Boyd and Cross played serviceable games, with Boyd just lifting it a notch in the last quarter to assist with clearances at the centre bounce. Gave us first use of the ball, and finally Barry was able to capitalise. Lake seemed pretty good IMO, although it appears that when we lost Shaggy early on, it just unsettled the backline somewhat. I held my breath a few times when Williams and Everitt had the ball in their hands, and I hope that more game time will improve their footy "smarts". All in all, a win (albeit ugly for most of the day) is a win, is a win, and I'm happy to take the four points. At the end of the year, we won't remember the nitty gritty of the game, and history will just show we won! Does anyone know what Shaggy's injury is? Also, did I miss Pickens'? Akers I saw, he put his hand up straight away as he went down.

[dog town]

I honestly thought we were horrendous for 2 and a half quarters. Not only was our decision making and execution of basic skills terrible but we appeared to lack effort at times. I can think of far to many times where we didnt go quite hard enough or did just enough to get by without fully committing to the contest. I didnt think we had that hard edge to our game at any stage today and the hawks were far hungrier to have an impact in most contests. Good to get a win despite all that.

[Mantis]

Just saw a snippet of the post-match presser; Eade certainly came off the long run with his comments regarding big Will. Publicly putting the acid on a player is a technique he's used before to try and extract better performances.

Will Rocket really pull the trigger and give Minson a spell?

I watched it on the AFL website - LINK (http://www.afl.com.au/Video/tabid/76/videoid/53054/rd3+press+conference+wb/Default.aspx)

He certainly gave Will and Lake a bake.. I guess if players don't follow the coaches instructions it would give you the shits...especially when these 2 are serial offenders.

I thought he was very good in his discussion with Jake Niall and Robbo with their points as well - a good presser IMO.

[LostDoggy]

On another note, Rioli is brilliant and it's worth paying to watch him play.
He's got to be the quickest player in the comp. He can twist and turn in any direction, hardly losing any pace at all. Harbrow's very quick - but he made Jarrod look slow at times.

Not a whole lot we could do to stop him.

Totally agree BB - it's not often I even see the opposition (:D) but today you couldn't help but notice Rioli. Very good player, and has great skills.

[LostDoggy]

Just saw a snippet of the post-match presser; Eade certainly came off the long run with his comments regarding big Will. Publicly putting the acid on a player is a technique he's used before to try and extract better performances.

Will Rocket really pull the trigger and give Minson a spell?

I think if he is, he'll rest him for the Friday night Round 5 match v Adelaide.
We need his aggression minus his brain fades against the Lions in my opinion.

[LostDoggy]

I am looking for someone to critique the games of Hahn, Gia & Williams (who did he play on etc) for me.

Sounds like a tough hard fought game... looking forward to watching a replay.


Played on Morton for most of the night, but also chopped out Lake & Morris on occasions. Did a serviceable job in my opinion, a couple of errors but didn't disgrace himself at all. Morton had 9 disposals & kicked 1 goal, so he was kept quite.

[G-Mo77]

I don't know about how I feel about this game. Don't get me wrong I'm wrapped to get the win I just don't come out with a good feeling about it.

My concerns mainly came from the first half. I thought our second half was quite good, our last quarter was excellent! First up Hawthorn use the zone very well and our boys seemed to really struggle with it. Their decision making was very slow, rarely they tried to break the line with run or quick disposal. Maybe I'm under selling Hawthorn's work but to me this was my main gripe. Secondly I thought a lot of players were lazy. The Hawks zoned and pushed forward quickly, when they had the ball or there was a turn over. Our boys seemed to just stop and stand still waiting for the ball.

All that aside I will put some positives in there.

Crossy and Boyd were fantastic. They worked their arse's off all game won the hard ball, tackled and pressured all day.

Liam Picken was back to his best today. Completely shut down Bateman. A real shame about the injury. :(

Griffen was very good, one of the few to run with the ball and try to break the zone. One of the best games I have seen from him.

I'll give a shout out to Everitt as well. I've been pretty critical of the kid for a while now but I thought today he was really good. Like Griffen he was one of the few who wanted to run with the ball and when he did it, it seemed to pay off.

4th quarter!! It all seemed to click. They won the ball at the stoppages, pressure was red hot, they moved the ball quickly and efficiently which in turn opened up our forward line for Hall.

Very happy to get away with a win but there is still plenty of work to do.

[LostDoggy]

I must have been watching a different game to Eade today because I thought Lake was best-on and Minson was excellent.

Lake did some amazing things, a mark after out-bodying two players, blocking, getting his hands free to get handballs away. I counted two brain fades which had me tearing my hair out. Having kept Franklin to a near-markless game, certainly in our best.

Minson actually provided some run, got into great positions, often was a handball out option, and could have scored a great goal if he had kicked straight after a great passage of play. The 50 he gave away was more over-zealous umpiring than anything. Was also stupid at times, but less than the first two rounds, and I thought he was improving. Along with Hudson really worked Renouf over to hand the 4th quarter to us on a plate.

It just seems that Rocket is applying the heat from a different quarter -- Minnow, especially, being a brainiac, seems to need a different form of stimulus. Perhaps Eade is just trying something different.

[LostDoggy]

Can I also say, why do coaches push everyone back when there is less than 5 mins left, and we are 28 points up?
Today, the Hawks got 2 late goals which did the opposite effect to which was intended, and i just rarely see it work at all!

[azabob]

Can I also say, why do coaches push everyone back when there is less than 5 mins left, and we are 28 points up?
Today, the Hawks got 2 late goals which did the opposite effect to which was intended, and i just rarely see it work at all!

I think it had something to do with one fit player left on the bench.

[LostDoggy]

I think it had something to do with one fit player left on the bench.

Point taken, and noted :cool:

[BulldogBelle]

Two commentators (Dogs fans) called them on their Cyril Rioli infatuation :p


Gotta admit, he played 'delicious' footy today :p

My son wants him in our team:D

[hujsh]

My son wants him in our team:D

Hell I wanted him in our team watching him today. Around about the time he sprung off the ground without using his hands and snapped that goal I decided he was exactly what we needed.

[boydogs]

Hell I wanted him in our team watching him today. Around about the time he sprung off the ground without using his hands and snapped that goal I decided he was exactly what we needed.

I wonder if we will see his opponent get a go down there at some stage

[Studentlib]

Hargrave injury showed how crucial his role in the backline is. Without him running to space to provide option and then breaking lines with long kicking, we seemed to get confused down back and put ourselves under pressure and slowing our movement and giving hawks plenty of time to crowd the midfield and forward line. C/Should an inexperienced Everitt play this role if Hargrave is out for some weeks? Great to see gilbee back doing what he does best too.

[firstdogonthemoon]

It's alright I found it thanks.



Can anyone fill me on the injuries from yesterday? Shaggy, Liam and Aker wasn't it? When did they go off and why? etc

[G-Mo77]

Can anyone fill me on the injuries from yesterday? Shaggy, Liam and Aker wasn't it? When did they go off and why? etc

Shaggy went off in the first after a big bump from Renouf. Apparently should be OK for next week.

Aker went off with a Hammy. It happened right in front of me and he looked pretty sore. I don't expect him to play anytime soon.

Didn't see what happened to Picken but he hurt his ankle and Eade said in his press conference last night that he'll be out for 2.

[Go_Dogs]

3 & ditto


I must have been watching a different game to Eade today because I thought Lake was best-on and Minson was excellent.

At least I'm not on my lonesome then.




Mantis - Hahn didn't have a huge impact on the result. Just struggled to really get involved, although did kick a nice goal. We really need more from Hahn consistently.

Gia was OK, he worked hard and had one huge gut-busting run to get forward and ended up with a goal (thought he nearly ran over the goal line though!) and kicked one very nice, short ball to Murph inside 50. It wasn't a great performance by any stretch, but it was OK. He really needs to go up another level at the moment for mine, otherwise his spot could come under pressure in the coming weeks/months.

Williams was good. At times he appeared lined up on Roughead and Buddy. He out-positioned Roughy late in the game and took a great defensive mark. Another solid game, his performances are heading in the right direction.

[Mantis]

Gia was OK, he worked hard and had one huge gut-busting run to get forward and ended up with a goal (thought he nearly ran over the goal line though!) and kicked one very nice, short ball to Murph inside 50. It wasn't a great performance by any stretch, but it was OK. He really needs to go up another level at the moment for mine, otherwise his spot could come under pressure in the coming weeks/months.



I have heard that he was pretty poor in some contested situations (especially marking) and gave his opponent/s too much latitude. Would these be fair observations?

I guess with Aker now out Gia has some breathing space, but with Ward, Aker & Johnson due back over the next 2 to 4 weeks Gia would be hoping to lift his output.

[Go_Dogs]

I have heard that he was pretty poor in some contested situations (especially marking) and gave his opponent/s too much latitude. Would these be fair observations?

Honestly, hard to accurately comment on what his opponent did from watching the telecast. He wasn't credited with a single contested possession, so that is probably a fair observation - although I can't recall any blatant incidents (possibly there were, and I just glossed over or missed them).

Will be interested to hear your thoughts once you've had a look at the tape.

[Doc26]

Mantis - Hahn didn't have a huge impact on the result. Just struggled to really get involved, although did kick a nice goal. We really need more from Hahn consistently.



A good assessment of Mitch's performance although would say he really had little impact.


I have heard that he was pretty poor in some contested situations (especially marking) and gave his opponent/s too much latitude. Would these be fair observations?

I guess with Aker now out Gia has some breathing space, but with Ward, Aker & Johnson due back over the next 2 to 4 weeks Gia would be hoping to lift his output.

I still have to learn to accept that Gia's default is as an outside player who is most comfortable in creating space and finishing off opportunities created by others. He is not the type to pull us out of a hole ala Cross, Cooney and Boyd but will help finish off their fine work and does add value in doing so. Seeing him as Captain though is a whole other matter :mad:

As for Tom, we need to keep persevering although some of his disposal decisions are scary like his bafflling decision yesterday to kick to a two on one contest that resulted in a turnover. Can recall Shaggy in his early years with us being quite similar with poor disposal choices so this can be rectified given time / confidence.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I still have to learn to accept that Gia's default is as an outside player who is most comfortable in creating space and finishing off opportunities created by others. He is not the type to pull us out of a hole ala Cross, Cooney and Boyd but will help finish off their fine work and does add value in doing so. Seeing him as Captain though is a whole other matter :mad:


Can't see how the two issues are related.

Whether or not Cross is captain isn't going to stop him diving head first into an oncoming truck and others don't need Cross to be captain to be inspired by it.

While the captain needs to be a certain selection (and Gia obviously is) he doesn't need to be the best player. In fact, IMO, what happens on field is largely irrelevant. The captain needs to do his work off field. Set the right example at training, out of hours and in the team meetings.

None of us have any idea as to what goes on behind doors but every person who should know says Gia is the one who leads most often and that's good enough for me.

[bornadog]

Can't see how the two issues are related.

Whether or not Cross is captain isn't going to stop him diving head first into an oncoming truck and others don't need Cross to be captain to be inspired by it.

While the captain needs to be a certain selection (and Gia obviously is) he doesn't need to be the best player. In fact, IMO, what happens on field is largely irrelevant. The captain needs to do his work off field. Set the right example at training, out of hours and in the team meetings.

None of us have any idea as to what goes on behind doors but every person who should know says Gia is the one who leads most often and that's good enough for me.

I thought Gia wasn't too bad, but not brilliant. He had 18 disposals with 5 inside 50's and 2 GA's Most of his disposals are usually pretty accurate and delivered to someone in a better position.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Can't see how the two issues are related.

Whether or not Cross is captain isn't going to stop him diving head first into an oncoming truck and others don't need Cross to be captain to be inspired by it.

While the captain needs to be a certain selection (and Gia obviously is) he doesn't need to be the best player. In fact, IMO, what happens on field is largely irrelevant. The captain needs to do his work off field. Set the right example at training, out of hours and in the team meetings.

None of us have any idea as to what goes on behind doors but every person who should know says Gia is the one who leads most often and that's good enough for me.

I would have to agree with Doc26's comments. Gia's three games this year have been ordinary to say the least. Hardly the efforts of a future captain. Off field leadership is important but you need to lead by example on the field. This is where the likes of Boyd, Morris and Cross provides the inspiratiion and leadership needed.

[EasternWest]

I thought Gia wasn't too bad, but not brilliant. He had 18 disposals with 5 inside 50's and 2 GA's Most of his disposals are usually pretty accurate and delivered to someone in a better position.

Gia had one possession yesterday right in the middle of the ground that highlighted exactly how good he is. We were on the burst and a good kick to him would have led to an easy shot on goal. The kick was poor and Gia was forced to scoop up a half volley with one hand while running at pace. It was an act so very, very difficult to do, and he made it look effortless. He fed the ball on and we got our goal from it. It was a piece of play that was so subtle in its brilliance it's easy to overlook, but aside from Gia I reckon only Murphy (maybe Higgins) would have the nous to pull it off.

I have been critical of Gia in the past, but when fit he must be one of our first selected.

[soupman]

With Gia he is one who's dissapointed me this season.

I'm fine with him not playing exceptionally well, a captain doesn't neccessarily have to do that. However, his defensive efforts have left a lot to be desired. I know he's been a regular target on certain forums for his softness, but yesterday he justified that at times, showing a lack of willingness to work the other way. I witnessed instances where he let blokes like Hodge just run past him, with no effort to go with them or slow them down. Other times they would be running the ball out of our forwardline and Gia would be walking as his opponent ran off.

This week and the match againats Richmond he has looked buggered at times, and i wonder whether he has been affected by the virus or something, because he doesn't seem to want, or be able to do those backwards runnign as much as we need him too, especially as captain.

[Doc26]

While the captain needs to be a certain selection he doesn't need to be the best player.

Sockeye, I agree with this and I didn't indicate otherwise.


In fact, IMO, what happens on field is largely irrelevant. The captain needs to do his work off field.

However I can't agree with this as on field inspiration and leadership is ALSO a prerequisite of being a respected captain and if I might borrow a quote from the great EJ himself,
You've got to show all the guts and determination you've got in your bodies. You gotta inspire me. Being captain simply can't be left to what happens off the field. I can't say I consistently see such inspiration and determination displayed from Gia whereas it is the standard set by the likes of Boyd, Cross and Morris.

[AndrewP6]

Just watching the match (recorded from the 3am replay)... jeez Will was hard done by getting that 50m penalty. Talk about over-officiating...and a couple of minutes later when Murph marked, the ump called his opponent back on the mark - once he'd stepped over it.

Hall should've had a free late in the 2nd with Gilham's hand on his back. And what's with Hodge trying the wedgie??? Jeez, I was even hoping Bazza would clock him.

[AndrewP6]

Bruce McAvaney's commentary verges on disturbing. I'm just waiting for him to open a broadcast by stating "Hi, I'm Bruce McAvaney, and I love men. All men. But eSPECIALly the DELICIOUS ones."....

[chef]

Just watching the match (recorded from the 3am replay)... jeez Will was hard done by getting that 50m penalty. Talk about over-officiating...and a couple of minutes later when Murph marked, the ump called his opponent back on the mark - once he'd stepped over it.

Hall should've had a free late in the 2nd with Gilham's hand on his back. And what's with Hodge trying the wedgie??? Jeez, I was even hoping Bazza would clock him.

Baz showed his new self control.

[Mantis]

Honestly, hard to accurately comment on what his opponent did from watching the telecast. He wasn't credited with a single contested possession, so that is probably a fair observation - although I can't recall any blatant incidents (possibly there were, and I just glossed over or missed them).

Will be interested to hear your thoughts once you've had a look at the tape.

I had the chance to watch the game last night (nearly turned it off at half time as it was that bad) so here are my observations firstly on Gia and then on some of the rest:

Gia - Extremely poor first half, but had some nice touches in the 2nd half. Really needs to get more of the ball as his touches generally mean something good will happen. He looked bloody slow on occassions and his lack of agility means he is almost at a stage where he needs the ball given to him as he is struggling to win his own (contested) ball. His inability to hold his ground in marking contests also hurt on a few occassions.

Lake - No wonder Rocket was pissed. He did a fantastic defensive job on Franklin, completely owned him, but his decision making and kicking cost us 6 goals (3 they kicked & 3 we should have kicked). He seroiously needs to tighten up this part of his game.

Gilbee - Thought he was our most consistent performer across the entire game. After a poorish pre-season by his standards his last 2 games have been great.

Boyd - Clearance work was great, his field kicking was poor, especially in the 3rd qtr. Needs to hit targets in open play if he is to play 'attacking' roles.

Minson- I thought his 3rd qtr was excellent (bar the set shot he missed). He won his fair share of the ball, used it efficiently and really worked Renouf over which resulted in a 4th qtr domination of the centre clearances. Calls for his demotion due to poor performances are off the mark as far as I'm concerned.

Hall - A great lesson for him that he needs to remain patient when things aren't going his way as when the tide turns he will be on the end of some quality ball as evidenced by the last qtr and a half. Love that he leads hard up the middle of the ground.

Cooney & Griffen - Have really started the season in fine form. Their willingness to run harder than they have in previous years and for longer coupled with their clearance work (ability to break from the clearance included) has been huge for our team. Griff really lifted the team in the 3rd qtr and took the game on as others were tiring which showed great leadership.

---

Rioli - I have to mention this little freak. I was never really a fan, probably due to the fact that I don't like watching Hawthorn play, but this bloke is amazing.His recovery skills and closing speed are amazing and once his fitness base improves he is going to be a seriously good player.

[LostDoggy]

However, his defensive efforts have left a lot to be desired. I know he's been a regular target on certain forums for his softness, but yesterday he justified that at times, showing a lack of willingness to work the other way. I witnessed instances where he let blokes like Hodge just run past him, with no effort to go with them or slow them down. Other times they would be running the ball out of our forwardline and Gia would be walking as his opponent ran off.


I agree.
There was one instance where the ball looked like it might go out of bounds, a hawk went hard at it, Gia just stood there watching, hawk gathers and off loads and they're away, Gia didn't offer anything.
It was pathetic.

[Stefcep]

Gia's defensive work has never been a strength, but he's in the team for his finishing skills. Along with Murphy, Higgins and Aker, we have IMO the most skilfull quartet of half-fowards in the comp. In previous discussions about outside Vs inside players, I seem to recall grunt players like Cross getting the plaudits, but really you need the guys like Gia and Eagleton who have the composure and skill to finish off on the scoreboard, either by accurate assists or scoring themselves.

[LostDoggy]

Gia's defensive work has never been a strength, but he's in the team for his finishing skills. Along with Murphy, Higgins and Aker, we have IMO the most skilfull quartet of half-fowards in the comp. In previous discussions about outside Vs inside players, I seem to recall grunt players like Cross getting the plaudits, but really you need the guys like Gia and Eagleton who have the composure and skill to finish off on the scoreboard, either by accurate assists or scoring themselves.

This is actually the main problem I have with Gia (who I don't have a problem with) and Eagleton (who I do). Their jobs as mainly 'users' of the ball mean that there is a higher premium on the quality of their disposal than on the likes of, say, Crossy, because that's what they're in the team for. If Crossy kicks a goal, it's a bonus. If Gia or Eagle don't kick or create one, though, it's a problem, because we're essentially carrying non-effective players.

Gia usually kicks enough junk time goals and creates enough (highest assist numbers in the last few years would suggest so) that his value to the team is unquestioned. However, since he missed what would have been the winner in last years' Prelim, he's missed some other shots from the same area, and I think it's a technique issue -- he's picked up the very bad habit of this weird, almost drop kick technique where he turns side-on and punts it at a 90-degree angle to his body. The ball almost inevitably misses to the side he's turned side-on to, and barely makes the distance sometimes. If this can be rectified he should regain his normal goal output.

Eagle is a whole other kettle of fish -- his kicking (bar one or two great games last year) hasn't been effective for over 2 years now, so we ARE often carrying him. I hope he discovers some kicking form (although his kicking for Willy last week was not that great) or someone like a Wood/Howard/Tutt can step up to the plate in the next few years.

[soupman]

Gia's defensive work has never been a strength, but he's in the team for his finishing skills. Along with Murphy, Higgins and Aker, we have IMO the most skilfull quartet of half-fowards in the comp. In previous discussions about outside Vs inside players, I seem to recall grunt players like Cross getting the plaudits, but really you need the guys like Gia and Eagleton who have the composure and skill to finish off on the scoreboard, either by accurate assists or scoring themselves.

I agree. Gia isn't an inside player. However, he is too slow to be a dangerous outside player. He's a mixture of both in my opinion, and his strength in our forwardline is his ability to set up goals. Last year his defensive efforts were there mostly, and he ran games out alright. This year his defensive efforts have looked half hearted at best, and he frequently looks buggered even before 3 quarter time. This, coupled with the fact he is currently our captain has led me to be dissapointed with him.

[Doc26]

I think it's a technique issue -- he's picked up the very bad habit of this weird, almost drop kick technique where he turns side-on and punts it at a 90-degree angle to his body. The ball almost inevitably misses to the side he's turned side-on to, and barely makes the distance sometimes.

I know what you mean. Think he's looking for style points rather than effectiveness, goes with the shaved down, white boot look ;) ooh and running around rather than crashing through the pre game banner

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I agree. Gia isn't an inside player. However, he is too slow to be a dangerous outside player. He's a mixture of both in my opinion, and his strength in our forwardline is his ability to set up goals. Last year his defensive efforts were there mostly, and he ran games out alright. This year his defensive efforts have looked half hearted at best, and he frequently looks buggered even before 3 quarter time. This, coupled with the fact he is currently our captain has led me to be dissapointed with him.

I'm with you.

I think Gia has been disappointing so far, despite some of his numbers. Not having a great influence on the game when it really counts and his defensive efforts have been ordinary. I dislike when he tries to mark on his chest too often - sometimes you have to either meet the ball or stick the hands out. It looks pretty bad when he simply jumps, turns side on and then the ball gets punched away and picked up by a defender.

At his best, Gia is very important to our side but I'd like to see him get involved more.

[LostDoggy]

Just watching the match (recorded from the 3am replay)... jeez Will was hard done by getting that 50m penalty. Talk about over-officiating...and a couple of minutes later when Murph marked, the ump called his opponent back on the mark - once he'd stepped over it.

Hall should've had a free late in the 2nd with Gilham's hand on his back. And what's with Hodge trying the wedgie??? Jeez, I was even hoping Bazza would clock him.

As already stated, Baz seems to have developed quite a sense of restraint and perhaps humour! I commend him for showing more restraint than me (I don't hit but I yell alot!) There are many on the Hawthorn team that annoy the crap out of me, and Hodge would be one of them. There really were some "interesting" decisions on Sunday - the guy I sit next to and I just looked at one another speechless a few times!

[stefoid]

Gia had one possession yesterday right in the middle of the ground that highlighted exactly how good he is. We were on the burst and a good kick to him would have led to an easy shot on goal. The kick was poor and Gia was forced to scoop up a half volley with one hand while running at pace. It was an act so very, very difficult to do, and he made it look effortless. He fed the ball on and we got our goal from it. It was a piece of play that was so subtle in its brilliance it's easy to overlook, but aside from Gia I reckon only Murphy (maybe Higgins) would have the nous to pull it off.

I have been critical of Gia in the past, but when fit he must be one of our first selected.

Im a big fan of the 'scoring involvement' stat that pro-stats publishes, but this year they want you to pay for those interesting extra stats - you just get the usual bland ones for free now. :(

But I would be very interested to see that stat for our guys this year, because as we all know, every disposal is not the same. Last year I had a look at the overall figures for scoring involvement and found that two players - gia and cross - who are often criticized for various things were quite high up on the list for the SI stat - meaning that when they used the ball, they used it in a way that contributed to the team having a shot on goal.

Gia uses the ball well, and in an era of ultra flooding and zone defences, that is gold.

Also expecting hahn to gradually come back to speed as he increases confidence that his face isnt going to cave in the next time he puts it over the ball and someone smacks into him.

[LostDoggy]

Im a big fan of the 'scoring involvement' stat that pro-stats publishes, but this year they want you to pay for those interesting extra stats - you just get the usual bland ones for free now. :(

But I would be very interested to see that stat for our guys this year, because as we all know, every disposal is not the same. Last year I had a look at the overall figures for scoring involvement and found that two players - gia and cross - who are often criticized for various things were quite high up on the list for the SI stat - meaning that when they used the ball, they used it in a way that contributed to the team having a shot on goal.

Gia uses the ball well, and in an era of ultra flooding and zone defences, that is gold.

Also expecting hahn to gradually come back to speed as he increases confidence that his face isnt going to cave in the next time he puts it over the ball and someone smacks into him.

Exactly. It's what we have to be good at if we are to overcome defensive football tactics that sides like St Kilda are so good at. Flooding, rolling zones and clusters all make it paramount we have the ability to hit targets from long range as well as short range. Fail and we make it easier for rebound footy to hurt us. If the Hawthorn game told us anything, it is that we have to be able to get free from stoppages or run the ball off the back line, and be able to hit up leading targets ALL game (and not just when the Opposition is tiring). It's why Eade would be ropeable, when we cough the ball up so easily and miss targets that we just shouldn't. Missing goals, giving away 50s, not following instructions.....just hands the ball to the Opposition. The pressure is therefore on players like Murphy, Gilbee, Gia to make the intelligent decisions and perform precision kicking or we just make so much work for ourselves trying to maintain or regain control of the ball.

[macca]

WE got smashed in the first 2 quarters in the clearances, and the hawks midfield were getting in first . I'm a bit concerned about these sluggish starts, and we can't afford it against the top teams.

Hall played, well did not get the delivery in the first 3 quarters, but was patient. There were a couple of holding the man moments, which umps missed, and the hawks doubled team him well. Halls ability to read the play and lead into space is fantastic and I hope this rubs off on our young fwd. 3 times in the last quarter he ran into space up dead infront of goal 40 m out.

Griffen was good, and worked hard all day.

Hudson was put on osborne or ladson at some stage down back, looked very strange.

Williams was solid, and did the right things.

Rioli is a seriously talented player, he turned picken inside out some many timnes, his turning circle is very small, and he finishing skills are superb.