Where's Gia's Bake?

[boydogs]

I thought Brian Lake and Will Minson were good for us on the weekend. Brian kept the 2008 coleman medallist goal-less plus had 27 possessions, Will presented as a get out handball option in several passages of play and played well in the ruck.

Both made a few mistakes, and not for the first time, which appears to have led to Rocket criticising them publicly.

In my view however, these guys were competing, involved in the play, trying to create something. If they do more good than bad, we should be happy with that.

I would be more inclined to criticise Gia.
Does. Not. Do. Enough.

For someone with such great skills - a one-touch player with fantastic accurate disposal - we need him to get involved more often. There were reports over the pre-season of him improving his fitness, and coupled with an ambition to captain the side I thought we would see more of him, but unfortunately his output so far has been limited

Gia, if you are reading this - have a go, get involved son! Don't be afraid to make a mistake in trying to affect play. I would love to see the ball in your hands more often

[LostDoggy]

I thought Brian Lake and Will Minson were good for us on the weekend. Brian kept the 2008 coleman medallist goal-less plus had 27 possessions, Will presented as a get out handball option in several passages of play and played well in the ruck.

Both made a few mistakes, and not for the first time, which appears to have led to Rocket criticising them publicly.

In my view however, these guys were competing, involved in the play, trying to create something. If they do more good than bad, we should be happy with that.

I would be more inclined to criticise Gia.
Does. Not. Do. Enough.

For someone with such great skills - a one-touch player with fantastic accurate disposal - we need him to get involved more often. There were reports over the pre-season of him improving his fitness, and coupled with an ambition to captain the side I thought we would see more of him, but unfortunately his output so far has been limited

Gia, if you are reading this - have a go, get involved son! Don't be afraid to make a mistake in trying to affect play. I would love to see the ball in your hands more often

What you said

[LostDoggy]

I third this motion.

[Mofra]

Gia doesn't need a bake - apart from Eagleton, no player in the last decade has been marked as harshly or is put under more scrutiny by Bulldog supporters.

[Desipura]

How people mention him as a possible captain astonishes me. The guy is a good player with very good foot skill, not an inspirational player who leads from the front on the field.
Thats not disrespect to Gia, it takes someone special to be a captain of a very good footy side. Off the field, he is by all reports a true leader, thats different to onfield.

[Mantis]

Gia doesn't need a bake - apart from Eagleton, no player in the last decade has been marked as harshly or is put under more scrutiny by Bulldog supporters.

While a bake isn't in order you would have to agree that Gia's output thus far is lower than expectations and he has to do more. We all know what he can offer when on song, but there has been very little singing in 2010.

[LostDoggy]

Last year Gia managed to turn my opinion of him around. He was running hard without the ball, getting involved, taking a few hits and doing the small things to ensure that he played himself into the game. I thought he was a lazy player on the field but he managed to changed what was an ingrained opinion of him.

It seems that his old habits are back to plague him, unless the ball falls in his lap he seems very diusinterested to do anymore. I've seen him on numerous occasions give up the chase as soon the ball leaves his area and stand around waiting, this is not good enough from someone who is wearing the captain's armband.

If he wants to be captain, which at the moment I do not support, he needs to stop worrying about getting his quota of cheap goals and pay attention to his defensive game. This was the very thing that turned around his form last year. His incresed workrate without the ball ensured he was in the contest more often and combined with his silky skills made him irreplacable.

We turn to our captain for inspiration, even though Johno cant hit the side of a barn with his field kicking, his courage to get to the contest go up against 4 bigger blokes, get smashed and get right back up again has his team mates in awe. There is nothing that Gia is doing on the field that would be inspiring his chargers to go that extra mile.

[Ozza]

I thought that while his first half was very disappointing on the weekend - he certainly responded in the second half and was a lot better. Hopefully he takes his second half form into this week versus Brisbane.

I agree with Mantis that his output hasn't been huge this year so far - but also completely agree with Mofra that "apart from Eagleton, no player in the last decade has been marked as harshly or is put under more scrutiny by Bulldog supporters."

[LostDoggy]

I don't think it was the players involvement that Eade was talking about, but it was more following team rules. I mean Minson gives away a stupid 50 meter penalty just last week, so for him to do it again this week just shows that he's not listening or hasn't learnt his lesson. Hence why Eade suggested maybe he needs to go back to Williamstown to learn his lesson (IMO i don't think it will happen).

Gia is fit, trying hard to get involved but it just isn't coming to him at the moment. I think he would love to get his hands on the ball more than anyone. I really don't see how dropping him back would help him get more of the ball for the Bulldogs.

[LostDoggy]

I find i have a love/hate relationship with Gia.

I guess my biggest problem is that by all report he will be our next captain and going by his on field performaces i just dont see him being right for this role.

He seems a player with two sides. He does a few things which often lead to turn overs and oppisiotion goals

But then he will do very good things to make up for it, spoiling and tackling good 1%ers


I often find myself cursing him and then very soon after applauding him

I think i mark him hard because of the captain aspect.

[Mantis]

I thought that while his first half was very disappointing on the weekend - he certainly responded in the second half and was a lot better. Hopefully he takes his second half form into this week versus Brisbane.

I agree with Mantis that his output hasn't been huge this year so far - but also completely agree with Mofra that "apart from Eagleton, no player in the last decade has been marked as harshly or is put under more scrutiny by Bulldog supporters."

Point 1 - In my opinion this surge in form in the second half was a direct result of our midfield getting on top and supplying more ball to Gia. What disappointed me on relation to Gia's first half was his inability to win the 50:50, which is unlike most of his team-mates. His contested play needs to improve.

Point 2 - Most knowledgable supporters know that Gia isn't soft (the general knock), but everyone still gets frustrated with his occassional inability to impose himself on a game or even contests within the game.

[Mofra]

I guess my biggest problem is that by all report he will be our next captain and going by his on field performaces i just dont see him being right for this role.
I don't see him as our next captain, but do see him as the sort of senior player that needs to set an example to the others. There was one incident on Sunday which was a terrible effort - allowing Mitchell to easily take away the ball when he could have bodied the fall of the ball harder to cause a contest. I was spitting chips when it happened, but his second half was much better.

Yes I agree his output should be higher, but I don't think it's panic stations yet. I still rate him as a very clean user of the ball in traffic/under pressure which means he still offers value to the side.

[LostDoggy]

How can someone who doesn't win his own ball be Captain?

Gia is a skilled outside player that lacks a tank and speed. His longevity in the may be shorter than we think.

Boyd should be Captain full stop.

[The Pie Man]

Not sure how much anyone rates Dermott Brereton's view, but I did hear him on SEN a few weeks ago saying Gia is the player 'I'd go through if I was an opposition team'

Thought he was ok on the weekend - even in the first half he kicked an important goal for us.

[Desipura]

How can someone who doesn't win his own ball be Captain?

Gia is a skilled outside player that lacks a tank and speed. His longevity in the may be shorter than we think.

Boyd should be Captain full stop.
Agree with most of what you have written. However if you are a quick outside player with elite kicking, there is no reason you cannot become Captain

[LostDoggy]

Point 2 - Most knowledgable supporters know that Gia isn't soft (the general knock), but everyone still gets frustrated with his occassional inability to impose himself on a game or even contests within the game.

I'm not sure where that label of soft comes from, lazy would be a more apt description. He appears to let the game get the better of him, if the 50 -50's don't go his way he seems to lack the ability to find that extra motivation to get involved.

It seems very strange that this is the case with Gia, from all reports he is one of the best trainers in the side and is a great motivator.

[cinder]

Spot on with this one. Gia has bursts of brilliance but also big form slumps - no idea why as he is so talented. For that reason I also don't agree with him being captain. I would prefer Murphy (especially now he seems on top of his injuries, touch wood) or Boyd.

[bornadog]

from all reports he is one of the best trainers in the side and is a great motivator.

Watched him train last week in the boxing ring and he was hard at it for along time. Spent more than 30 minutes hitting away, followed by more boxing outside the ring, then back in again, followed by a run around the park. I was there for about two hours and he was working pretty hard.

We have to accept that Gia is not going to get 30 possessions a week. He is a link man and when he gets the ball he creates something. He is one of the best goal assists in the AFL and his passing and handballs are usually spot on.

[LostDoggy]

I get the feeling that Gia often sacrifices his own game for the sake of the team. That being said there is an obvious mismatch between the clubs value of him and the supporters perception of his value. It certainly seems as if he is a welded on senior player (I haven't seen Rocket ever give Gia a bake), when guys like Hill are on much shakier ground

[GVGjr]

How can someone who doesn't win his own ball be Captain?

Gia is a skilled outside player that lacks a tank and speed. His longevity in the may be shorter than we think.

Boyd should be Captain full stop.

Tom Harley was generally regarded as a very good captain but wasn't a ball winner so whilst I'm not necessarily supporting Giansiracusa as the captain it shouldn't discount him.

I'm actually a fan of Morris as a potential captain (or vice captain) and he certainly isn't a ball winner.

[chef]

How can someone who doesn't win his own ball be Captain?

Gia is a skilled outside player that lacks a tank and speed. His longevity in the may be shorter than we think.

Boyd should be Captain full stop.

Hows he go in the media, revving up the troops and selling the club?

Boyd seems like someone who would lead by example, but there is more involved nowadays as a captain of a football club.

Bob Murphy would be my choice.

[LostDoggy]

Hows he go in the media, revving up the troops and selling the club?

Boyd seems like someone who would lead by example, but there is more involved nowadays as a captain of a football club.

Bob Murphy would be my choice.

Marketing is part of most senior players portfolio these days. Good little earner on the side for players. I know though that it would not figure in who I picked for Captain. I would be happy with Bob as well.

[Topdog]

Hows he go in the media, revving up the troops and selling the club?

Boyd seems like someone who would lead by example, but there is more involved nowadays as a captain of a football club.

Bob Murphy would be my choice.

I don't know how he goes in the media but Boyd is a good "talker"

[LostDoggy]

Tom Harley was generally regarded as a very good captain but wasn't a ball winner so whilst I'm not necessarily supporting Giansiracusa as the captain it shouldn't discount him.

I'm actually a fan of Morris as a potential captain (or vice captain) and he certainly isn't a ball winner.

I would have thought that both Morris and Harley could win the ball in a contested situation. Either through Marking a contested ball or winning one one battles on the ground. That is my interpretation of winning your own ball. That is not to say Gia does not do this at all. As he does occasionally get contested marks or balls out of the pack. Seeing as he is a link up man mainly it would be hard to lead from the front as he is simply not involved in the play when the team is going poorly. Therefore I would be more likely to give the captaincy to an on baller or key position player. A player who can show by example and is in the firing line most of the time regardless of how the game is going. Morris would also be a good choice for Captain.

[chef]

I don't know how he goes in the media but Boyd is a good "talker"

He doesn't seem comfortable in front of the cameras in the limited times I've seen him interviewed, so that may count against him.

[Dazza]

With effort and courage shown on the park + commitment off it you can't really go past Cross. Not sure what the go is personality wise but from the outside looking in he'd be a great candidate.

[choconmientay]

We all know what he can offer when on song, but there has been very little singing in 2010.

Maybe the pressure of the captaincy is getting to him. A lot of players (in any sports) are doing quite well as individual, but when taking over the captaincy, they crack under pressure.

[LostDoggy]

Point 1 - In my opinion this surge in form in the second half was a direct result of our midfield getting on top and supplying more ball to Gia. What disappointed me on relation to Gia's first half was his inability to win the 50:50, which is unlike most of his team-mates. His contested play needs to improve.

Point 2 - Most knowledgable supporters know that Gia isn't soft (the general knock), but everyone still gets frustrated with his occassional inability to impose himself on a game or even contests within the game.

Mantis, totally agree with you - IMO, the perception is that Gia doesn't chase or contest enough. However, that being said, he is a great goal assist, and usually has very clean ball handling skills. I think it's only early, and maybe his best is yet to come. I guess like someone else said, we can't expect Gia to get 30 touches each week, and yes, I also agree he sometimes sacrifices his game for the sake of the team. :)

[boydogs]

I don't think it was the players involvement that Eade was talking about, but it was more following team rules.

Yeah you're right, but that's the point. It seems small minded to me to only react to the errors you see from the players involved in the play, as opposed to focusing on making sure our players are competing hard and getting themselves involved in the game, particularly our better ball users.

Why wasn't Gia the get out option instead of Minson in those handball chains? Minnow was having a go, and he stuffed it up once or twice, but rather than criticising Will why don't we ask why Gia wasn't there to avoid us having to rely on a ruckman's skills in that situation?


Watched him train last week in the boxing ring and he was hard at it for along time. Spent more than 30 minutes hitting away, followed by more boxing outside the ring, then back in again, followed by a run around the park. I was there for about two hours and he was working pretty hard.

It would be good if we didn't have to watch a boxing session to see this side of him. He needs to bring this intensity on to the park.

Griff is taking the game on and Gilbee is setting up play, now we need Gia to work hard to get to contests and find space so we can take advantage of his delivery going forward


He is a link man and when he gets the ball he creates something. He is one of the best goal assists in the AFL and his passing and handballs are usually spot on.

Who does this remind you of? (Hint: he wears number 29 for Geelong)
What do the Cats do? Play through him at every opportunity, protect him at all costs
The result - a brownlow and a premiership

Hugely oversimplified I know, but especially when you are going forward, you want the ball in the hands of the player with the best skills to hit up a target. I don't think we should accept Gia will never be a 30-possession player, I can tell you now I would rather 30 from Gia than Boyd.

Gia needs to get involved and present, and the rest of the side need to use him.

[Mofra]

Interesting that 30 disposals has been mentioned a few times as if it is some sort of benchmark. Only Boyd has averaged that this year, and nobody averaged that last year at the Bulldogs.

FWIW Gia is in the top ten in disposal average this year for the Bulldogs - as he was last year.

[LostDoggy]

Interesting that 30 disposals has been mentioned a few times as if it is some sort of benchmark. Only Boyd has averaged that this year, and nobody averaged that last year at the Bulldogs.

FWIW Gia is in the top ten in disposal average this year for the Bulldogs - as he was last year.

Lies, Lies and statistics!

Supporters place too much empahsis on the raw statistics of disposals. How does one compare Boyd's 30 possessions with Morris' 10?

Gia spends nothing like the time in the midfield as Cooney, Boyd or Cross, yet supporters look down the stats list after the game and note Gia had ONLY 16 disposals or somebody else had 17.

How much time were they on the ground, what position did they play, what role were they given, how did their direct opponent match their figures?

These are the issues which need to be considered alongside the raw stats.

[Doc26]

Hows he go in the media, revving up the troops and selling the club?

Boyd seems like someone who would lead by example, but there is more involved nowadays as a captain of a football club.

Bob Murphy would be my choice.

I wouldn't be too critical of Boydy in his ability to be able to market the club beyond what we see each week on field. From hearing him talk at our last couple of B&F award nights he speaks from the heart and with inspiration. Certainly wanted me to pull on the boots again. With more opportunity and experience he would rise to the occasion as he has done since being promoted off the rookie list.



Who does this remind you of? (Hint: he wears number 29 for Geelong)
What do the Cats do? Play through him at every opportunity, protect him at all costs
The result - a brownlow and a premiership

Hugely oversimplified I know, but especially when you are going forward, you want the ball in the hands of the player with the best skills to hit up a target. I don't think we should accept Gia will never be a 30-possession player, I can tell you now I would rather 30 from Gia than Boyd.

Gia needs to get involved and present, and the rest of the side need to use him.

Griff, I see little comparison with GAJ and Gia other than Gia sits more on the 'skill' side of the ledger. GAJ does get his own ball, can break tackles with ease and goes like a bullet train and his skills are better probably due to the fact that often he has more time to dispose of it.

With that said I agree with the sentiment that Gia needs to find a way of getting himself involved when it matters rather than rising in junk time or simply skiing downhill. What he has to offer the Dogs in 2010 through his finishing ability could well be the difference in going all the way - we need him more than many to rise to the occasion.

[Mofra]

With that said I agree with the sentiment that Gia needs to find a way of getting himself involved when it matters rather than rising in junk time king or simply being a downhill skier. What he has to offer the Dogs in 2010 through his finishing ability could well be the difference in going all the way - we need him more than many to rise to the occasion.
Shoot me down, but I think some of Gia's best work is in close. When most players just blaze away, on many occassions he finds an extra half second and actually delivers the ball to advantage, which is a rare skill that cannot be taught (and not obvious from the grandstand so I can understand the criticism).

In the third quarter last week he was surrounded by Hawk players, and Hall was our only forward. Instead of kicking to an out of position Hall, he found a way, in traffic, to hold the ball up until Hall could find a small break on his opponent. Gia then delivered the ball, under pressure, to Hall lace-out. That is the edge he brings to the side but never gets credit for.

[Ozza]

^^^

I remember that and it was brilliant.

I also remember when Gia got what many people would say was a 'soft goal' in the first half - when in reality - he broke off his opponent in the centre and sprinted 80metres towards goal to get it in the goal square.
He's a very very smart player, in close or in space. Not everyone can bust open packs, and its not everyone's role to be doing that.

[Desipura]

^^^

I remember that and it was brilliant.

I also remember when Gia got what many people would say was a 'soft goal' in the first half - when in reality - he broke off his opponent in the centre and sprinted 80metres towards goal to get it in the goal square.
He's a very very smart player, in close or in space. Not everyone can bust open packs, and its not everyone's role to be doing that.
Has he ever sprinted?

[Mofra]

Gia doesn't need a bake - apart from Eagleton, no player in the last decade has been marked as harshly or is put under more scrutiny by Bulldog supporters.


Has he ever sprinted?
I think as a board we can do better than this

[Cyberdoggie]

Last year Gia managed to turn my opinion of him around. He was running hard without the ball, getting involved, taking a few hits and doing the small things to ensure that he played himself into the game. I thought he was a lazy player on the field but he managed to changed what was an ingrained opinion of him.



I think you are right in that we know he can do those things.
Same goes with Eagleton, they play a similar style where they are used as link men to deliver the ball forward. Problem is that they are always looking to create space or receive the ball offensively. Even when the ball is in dispute their mindset is to not enter a contest in case boyd/cross win the ball and look to deliver it out. If that happens then they need to be ready to go.

While i don't necessarily agree with this, I can understand why the defensive side of their game fluctuates.

Personally I think each player needs to attack each contest on it's merits. If we already have 3 players under the pack it would make no sense to go in as well but you are the one there then you need to commit 100%.

Another issue i link to this is our reluctance to shepherd. It seems the players or certain players are under instruction NOT to shepherd, rather to be in space in order to receive the handball if the ball carrier is under pressure (much like those quick handball drills you see them practice).
On several occasions against the hawks we needed to lay a bump and we didn't, therefore allowing the hawthorn defender to put pressure on our ball carrier.

A good example was Will Minson from a free kick handballed to a runner and failed to lay the bump to the guy who was chasing him, that player applied significant pressure on our man and the ball was turned over.

Another was a run through the middle of Griff's, he could of ran the whole ground but his teamate decided not to bump the defender and Griff had to rush his kick at full speed and it was turned over.

I feel this issue is linked because guys like Eagleton and Gia think first on running forward and trying to get another handball receive rather than clearing the way for teamate they might of given the ball too.

Anyway it's just a personal gripe of mine, and i hope Gia does lift his output again.

[Desipura]

I think as a board we can do better than this

Are you serious?

[soupman]

I think as a board we can do better than this

I read it as Desipura commenting on Gia's one pace. He doesn't seem to have that burst of speed that would constitute a sprint.

[LostDoggy]

If every one goes into the pack and trys to win the hard ball who they going to give it too once the get it.
Gia is an outside player and a very smart user of the ball and he would be the forwards prefered person to have the ball in hands 70m out from goal, in saying that i don't think i have ever seen him not put his body on the line when it is his turn to go.

I love Boyd and Cross but if we had a team of them i think we would be closer to the bottom then the top.

All good teams have good finnishers

[Desipura]

I read it as Desipura commenting on Gia's one pace. He doesn't seem to have that burst of speed that would constitute a sprint.
Thanks soupaman, I will leave it at that.

[Go_Dogs]

I also remember when Gia got what many people would say was a 'soft goal' in the first half - when in reality - he broke off his opponent in the centre and sprinted 80metres towards goal to get it in the goal square.

Yep, I mentioned that one in another thread - it was a great piece of gut-running, and something we are lacking with Eagleton out of the side at the moment.

I would like to see Gia do this more often (running very hard) to get himself into dangerous positions, because as everyone has mentioned in this thread, his ball use is usually very good and he makes good decisions under pressure.

Here's hoping he can sneak under the radar on the weekend and have a big one.

[always right]

Unfortunately he looked disinterested on Sunday. At one stage where he was close to Mitchell, he watched Mitchell handball and the ran away from Mitchell to nowhere in particular whilst Mitchell ran on to get the handball back. It was bizarre.....I have no idea what he was doing.

[Mantis]

Unfortunately he looked disinterested on Sunday. At one stage where he was close to Mitchell, he watched Mitchell handball and the ran away from Mitchell to nowhere in particular whilst Mitchell ran on to get the handball back. It was bizarre.....I have no idea what he was doing.

Saw that one on the tape, it did look out of place.

[Ozza]

Yep, I mentioned that one in another thread - it was a great piece of gut-running, and something we are lacking with Eagleton out of the side at the moment.

I would like to see Gia do this more often (running very hard) to get himself into dangerous positions, because as everyone has mentioned in this thread, his ball use is usually very good and he makes good decisions under pressure.

Here's hoping he can sneak under the radar on the weekend and have a big one.

This isn't me having a crack - so please don't take it that way - but watch Gia very closely once in a while and see what he does.

I watched him closely in the first quarter of the Tigers game - as in - I made a concerted effort to watch where he runs to and when. Even in the heat of the first few minutes Gia found himself in heaps of space several times from running off his opponent after the centre bounce. If we had have kicked the ball better in the first quarter he'd have ended up with a few goals of goal assists - but we kept turning it over and not getting to him. I've noticed it in MCG games the most because of where I sit for those games - the Sydney final in 2008, last years Brisbane final.

I think he is running hard - we have to accept that he is primarily a half forward and isn't going to get huge numbers - but if he keeps getting 20 possies and a goal each week - then he is playing his role (and yes I know its more than possessions that he needs to do).

[Go_Dogs]

This isn't me having a crack - so please don't take it that way - but watch Gia very closely once in a while and see what he does.

No worries at all Ozza, and you are probably spot on. One of the pitfalls of having to watch games on TV is that you can't always get a perspective for these types of things.

[Ozza]

No worries at all Ozza, and you are probably spot on. One of the pitfalls of having to watch games on TV is that you can't always get a perspective for these types of things.

Definitely a different perspective at the game as opposed to on the box. On the flipside - at the ground, we don't often notice some of the in close work done during a game so it works both ways a bit.

All I know is - i yell and carry on far more at the TV because I can't see the whole ground and the reason players choose the options they do. I expect Saturday night will be a very loud atmosphere at the old man's house with us going off our heads.