Game Day - R4 Western Bulldogs vs Brisbane

[Stefcep]

Or Brisbane's lack of ability in front of goals. :(

We shouldda been 4 goals down in the first 5 minutes.

Hall kept us in upto half time. Even IF we were up by 4 goals, we were getting killed in the general pattern of play, it was only a matter of time before Brisbane actually scored from more than just one in every 10 inside 50's they had.

The fumbles or turnovers you expect on the odd occasion in a game, but to do it for 4 straight quarters, across the entire playing list is some achievement.

Voss took both Fevola and Brown off: very astute coaching, Brown was being beaten by Lake's pace, Fev was in it beascue had he kicked straight he might have had 3 at quarter time, but Voss took both off to keep 'em fresh. When the game was there to be won in the last quarter, Lake was dead on his feet, whereas Brown lead him a merry dance. I'd hope that Rocket would learn to give both Morris and Lake a spell when both Brown and Fevola are off.

Everett and Minson aren't good enough to be playing AFL footy. Williams will probably end up being a "shouldda been" footballer. Too many other poor performers really.

Our intensity on the ball is gone, players are getting easily brushed aside in the 50-50's, the skill errors are what you'd expect in the under 14's. There's a huge mountain to climb for us to be considered a genuine Grand finalists.

[The Pie Man]

It can also be due to the fact that the players were out on their collective feet.

I know for a fact that players were absolutely knackered after the Hawthorn game last week. In that game we lost a few players to injury which affected our rotations meaning the players didn't get their usual breaks and pulled up a little worse for wear.
Did it make a difference last night.... Yes, I think it did and although I wasn't happy with parts of our performance I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and expect the team to bounce back over the coming weeks/ months.

In saying that a few guys need to make way because their performances haven't really been consistent enough, but in reality most of them are forwards and in the 2nd half last night their butts got cold as the ball just didn't get down there.

No coincidence that Hawthorn got smashed last night as well, six day break after that contest (and theirs vs Geelong before that) wasn't ideal preparation, let alone the travel.

Reminded me of the Carlton game in 08 when the same peanut got hold of us in the 2nd half - media scribes mentioned we'd been going through a heavy training load (was it round 16?) in prep for the finals, and we were flat as a tack in the 2nd half of that one. I'm sure they'll freshen up (light week etc) for Friday night, and I get tired the legs thing, but round 4?

Losing to WCE last year hurt the supporter group, and then we went up to Brisy and had a great win. Big Friday night for both Adelaide and the Dogs next week! I'd like to think that at worst we'll be 3-3 after round 6, and then we have a decidely easier run for a period from there.

[LostDoggy]

No coincidence that Hawthorn got smashed last night as well, six day break after that contest (and theirs vs Geelong before that) wasn't ideal preparation, let alone the travel.


But how do you explain round 1 when we looked just as poor as last night and we'd had the week before off? I think the problems are structural . and possibly psychological:o

[The Pie Man]

But how do you explain round 1 when we looked just as poor as last night and we'd had the week before off? I think the problems are structural . and possibly psychological:o

Oh I think we were worse last night than round 1 - my concern is that we're playing tired in round 4....I get the 6 day breaks.....but I'd get a heavy training load a month out from the finals more.

And they aboviously were tired - Boyd keeps racking up the numbers....and the clangers - he's a favourite of mine, but his disposal has been off so far this season.

Lake's holding the ball in the last quarter was a fair reflection of how knackered they must have been - he got his arms free to handball but still dropped the pill. Watching the next 10 minutes of the game was torture, couldn't believe we were still only four points down deep into the 4th (would I have rathered we be blown away earlier?)

At least the smallish margin means we stay in the 8 ahead of Melbourne for the week.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Whilst I understand what you are saying, there are going to be a lot of bruising encounters during the season, and during the finals. We need to be able to get ourselves up to play at or very close to 100% every week.

Adelaide will no doubt come out all guns blazing next weekend, if that's a tough game, do we excuse a domination by St Kilda the following week?

I'm not writing us off at all, but if we are going to be a top side, we're going to find ways to win, sore bodies or not. What we saw last night was a complete inability to move the ball from the defensive half to half forward. We were smashed in I50's, and just couldn't get near it. The 2nd half we were completely dominated. If Brisbane had been able to apply the proper score board pressure that correlated with their dominance, we would have lost by 6+ goals, easily.

Agree wholeheartedly with this.

Need to stop making excuses for this group. It's very early in the season and we've had one tough encounter. If we stumble/fall that easily - we've got absolutely no chance of performing on the big stage when it counts.

We played one quarter of football. The other three were very ordinary for a talented side and it really isn't good enough. They switch off far too easily and as a result play unaccountable, lazy and sluggish football.

St. Kilda lost two players v Collingwood and Hayes was off for periods of the game with his nose injury. They still found a way to beat Collingwood - and quite easily in the end. They've shown real determination and mental strength for a while, we haven't.

Lastly, we cannot keep playing under performing players. I am very critical of the coaching staff for continually allowing the same players to make the same mistakes. Minson and Hahn are the two biggest offenders yet we use Hill as the constant scapegoat. We invest far too much faith in our senior players and it regularly costs us.

I went to the game and there were many worrying signs. Our defensive tactics/structures are really poor as evidenced by how many goals we continue to leak. Indiviually our defenders are pretty good, but we still conceed a lot of goals. If we're going to improve, that has to stop. Whether we employ floods/zones ala St. Kilda, Geelong and Hawthorn - I'm not sure. Either way though, I am tired of seeing very little defensive pressure/structure from the midfielders especially and forwards. Any side seems able to kick 3-6 goals on us in quick succession. You'll rarely see a Geelong/St. Kilda side do the same. We do it every week.

Overall I am not surprised at last nights performance, but disappointed and frustrated. Murphy taking side steps to avoid contact etc. doesn't make me feel any better.

Plenty of time to turn it around at least.

[The Pie Man]

Overall I am not surprised at last nights performance, but disappointed and frustrated. Murphy taking side steps to avoid contact etc. doesn't make me feel any better.

Plenty of time to turn it around at least.

Hmmmmm - footy's a tough game, and while on the sauce in the outer I might call a few perceived squibs in the league soft/weak, I don't honestly believe it, as even outside runners generally have to go in when it's their turn, and they'd be much better than me at it. It's a scary game

Having said all that, I remember the moment you're referring to....didn't look good did it?

[hujsh]

The hysteria here can be a bit too much to bear at times. The losses against Collingwood and Brisbane could not be considered to be as bad as last year's losses against Carlton and West Coast yet we still were a whisker away from the granny. While I don't accept the form of the team at present I'm not quite ready to give up on them just yet either.

A bit of perspective please.

[Go_Dogs]

Either way though, I am tired of seeing very little defensive pressure/structure from the midfielders especially and forwards. Any side seems able to kick 3-6 goals on us in quick succession. You'll rarely see a Geelong/St. Kilda side do the same. We do it every week.

Plenty of time to turn it around at least.

Terrific post TBB, agree with everything that you said.


Just wanted to comment in-particular on the point I've quoted. Watching today's game between Geelong and Port, the point was very clear.

Geelong just work incredibly hard, defensively to shut teams down and prevent run and link up, and then offensively to create options to allow quick ball movement. They are able to pile on large amounts of goals in the blink of an eye, and it's very difficult (perhaps impossible) for opposition sides to get a run on against them.

Like you say, plenty of time to turn it around - but we're going to need to. Top 4 spots are going to be at a premium, and a lot of sides - Fremantle, Sydney and Brisbane - are off to great starts and have a strong home ground advantage, which makes it increasingly difficult.

Massive month ahead.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I agree toatlly, we've got no chance in the grand final next week.

What's that? The grand final is still 5 months away, you say?



We were out on our feet. Say what you like but we were struggling to recover from the Hawthorn game. Hawthorn were even worse than us. Six day break, interstate.


Eade told us a few weeks back he'd be happy being 3-3 after round 6.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I agree toatlly, we've got no chance in the grand final next week.

What's that? The grand final is still 5 months away, you say?



We were out on our feet. Say what you like but we were struggling to recover from the Hawthorn game. Hawthorn were even worse than us. Six day break, interstate.


Eade told us a few weeks back he'd be happy being 3-3 after round 6.

September being five months away is hardly a reprieve for the very ordinary football we're playing.

You've got to win enough games during the year to ultimately give yourself a chance through top four.

Not sure why we'd be 'happy' being 3-3, despite that now looking the most likely scenario. We should be better than that IMO.

[Sedat]

We were out on our feet. Say what you like but we were struggling to recover from the Hawthorn game. Hawthorn were even worse than us. Six day break, interstate.

Eade told us a few weeks back he'd be happy being 3-3 after round 6.
If there were 3-4 additional players over and above the officially injured list who were sore and struggled to come up on the 6 day break, we really should have selected the team with that in mind. We made the bare minimum changes this week when it was probably a week to make sure we selected a harder running team with as much freshness in the legs as possible. Sometimes I feel we are a little too conservative at the selection table and don't adopt enough of a "horses for courses" selection policy.

The previous comments on out of form senior players is also valid. Waite and Thornton were dropped from Carlton's team and they responded with a strong win on the road. Minson, much like Waite, has struggled following a lengthy injury lay-off and might now benefit from a run in the magoos to find touch. Hahn has not contributed enough this season (forget about the Richmond game) and should also be in line for a spell at Willy.

The fierce contested possession ability of Picken and Ward were obviously missed last night by all accounts. With those two in the team, we have rotations in the midfield that are flint-hard and take a big load off the likes of Boyd and Cross. Still, teams like St Kilda and Geelong adequately replace starting 18 players and answer the challenge accordingly so I think we should be better at handling 2-3 player restructures to the team on a weekly basis by having good enough depth from players 23-30.

Not panic stations by a long stretch but certainly a timely wake-up call for the entire team to get their collective act together.

[Mantis]

If there were 3-4 additional players over and above the officially injured list who were sore and struggled to come up on the 6 day break, we really should have selected the team with that in mind. We made the bare minimum changes this week when it was probably a week to make sure we selected a harder running team with as much freshness in the legs as possible. Sometimes I feel we are a little too conservative at the selection table and don't adopt enough of a "horses for courses" selection policy.

Which players could have came into the team to add some running depth?


The previous comments on out of form senior players is also valid. Waite and Thornton were dropped from Carlton's team and they responded with a strong win on the road. Minson, much like Waite, has struggled following a lengthy injury lay-off and might now benefit from a run in the magoos to find touch. Hahn has not contributed enough this season (forget about the Richmond game) and should also be in line for a spell at Willy.

Minson's form was actually very good in the 2nd half against Hawthorn and was one of the reasons why we took control of the game. Agree on the Hahn call.

[Sedat]

Which players could have came into the team to add some running depth?
Not so much specifically targeting running depth players, I'm talking more about the philosophy of selecting players for a tough road trip, on a short break, who are sore and have been identified during the week that they will struggle to see out the 120 minutes. I understand that this would require the selection of players who aren't exactly tearing it up for Willy, but I would have preferred to see a couple of Stack, Callan or Wood (assuming he isn't injured) at 100% capacity to have played this week and rest a couple of the sore players. The supposed instability of making 4-5 changes in the one week would be canceled out by the selection of a healthier team that in theory would have been able to run the game out better, and most importantly would give those sore senior players a week's rest (knowing that we have another 6-day break coming up this week). Just to reiterate, this is 'horses for courses' only, and based on what we knew before the Brisbane game about the toughness of the previous week's encounter and the physical impact on some of the players.


Minson's form was actually very good in the 2nd half against Hawthorn and was one of the reasons why we took control of the game. Agree on the Hahn call.
I've been a staunch supporter of Will's and was not advocating a change for the Brisbane game. But now that he has put in 3 and a half poor performances in the first 4 weeks, he probably needs a spell at the lower level just to get his confidence and touch back. His form is clearly playing on his mind and we need him back in the seniors playing with confidence and swagger. It isn't helping him personally or the team collectively at the moment to see him struggling so much.

[Desipura]

Say what you will about Minsons form, he has not improved his overhead marking and is way too inconsistent.
When we started kicking to him long in the last quarter, I knew our midfield were struggling to run out the game.
For a player who has played 96 games, he really should not be consistently making the amount of silly errors that he is.
I cannot see much more improvement in Will's game. When you are that big and cannot take a mark there have to be other aspects to your game.
Hudson at least competes well in a contested situation when the ball is in dispute (in the middle), Will does not have this string to his bow and the opposition run off him far too easily. I think he needs a spell. If we want to improve as a team, we have to demand more from our experienced players.

I do not think anyone mentioned it, however did anyone notice Williams back into a pack with his down in the first quarter? It was like he sensed Browny was coming towards him.

[bornadog]

Just looked at the fixture and we are playing Brissie again in 7 weeks time.

[Pickenitup]

Great time for revenge then in 7 weeks we will smash em

[Dazza]

Not sure why Minson gets criticized for not taking marks when Hudson does exactly the same thing but is probably worse and gets used less in that regard.

[Hotdog60]

Not sure why Minson gets criticized for not taking marks when Hudson does exactly the same thing but is probably worse and gets used less in that regard.

It's because Will is resting in the forward line and it would be nice if he held a few.

[Sockeye Salmon]

It's because Will is resting in the forward line and it would be nice if he held a few.

dazb's post is valid.

I wonder if Hudson rested up forward had did nothing he would be slagged off as much as Will? I bet he would.

Hudson is actually viewed better by his own supporters for being such a crap forward he's not even bothered with. Maybe if Minson was a worse forward Eade wouldn't even play him there and Minson would be so unfairly slagged off?

[Hotdog60]

dazb's post is valid.

I wonder if Hudson rested up forward had did nothing he would be slagged off as much as Will? I bet he would.

Hudson is actually viewed better by his own supporters for being such a crap forward he's not even bothered with. Maybe if Minson was a worse forward Eade wouldn't even play him there and Minson would be so unfairly slagged off?

I have nothing against big Will, I see Will in a few years time being our number one ruck and Roughead and Cordy as the backups playing forward.

I often wonder if Will would be better suited resting in the backline and spoiling anything that comes down that way. Maybe no good for the leading type forward but his size could be handy against the stay home types. Or blocking the hole for the leading forward.

Scott Wynd always played the defensive ruck man well.

[Desipura]

I have nothing against big Will, I see Will in a few years time being our number one ruck and Roughead and Cordy as the backups playing forward.

I often wonder if Will would be better suited resting in the backline and spoiling anything that comes down that way. Maybe no good for the leading type forward but his size could be handy against the stay home types. Or blocking the hole for the leading forward.

Scott Wynd always played the defensive ruck man well.
I disagree that Minson will be our number 1 ruck in a few years. I believe Roughy will be number 1 with support from Cordy.
Only problem about playing Minson down back is they dont just bomb the ball anywhere near as much as when Wynd played. I cant think of many resting forwards who Minson could match up against.