What is wrong with this team?

[LostDoggy]

How can they play so badly for long periods ever single week. They spot teams big head starts, they even gave Richmond as much of an advantage that they physically could get.

Last night (and against for most of the Collingwood, Richomnd and half of Hawthorn) they just play terribly and so far below there potential. We had a 15 period of good play last night where we were dominating play, but it was we can't play like shit for 3 quarters and expect to win against any team. The skills and decision making were far below were they should have been i.e Gilbee's handball to the 3 doggies players that went to Power. We deserved to get pumped last night

Just why can't they play well for any decent amount of time, seems like 06 all over again

[azabob]

Don't have an answer to your question, not worried yet. I think you meen 07 not 06.

[LostDoggy]

How can we go from being the highest scoring team - with no POWER fwd to struggle to score 100pts with BBBBarry? Last night Brisbane had almost twice as many inside 50's... I think our structures are falling down - some players are out of form and we are not being proactive enough.

When Coon's aint getting a touch throw him fwd, When were getting beating in the clearances - Ruckmen belt it fwd 30m. Poor skills and silly mistakes are killing us...

IMO bloke aren't doin the hard running fwd that they were NAB cup and last year. Are they overtraining? They look tired and its only rnd 4!!

[mjp]

How can we go from being the highest scoring team - with no POWER fwd to struggle to score 100pts with BBBBarry?

LOL. 'Cos it aint just about the forward line?

We have totally changed the structure of the side with Hall and it is going to take some time for everyone to get used to it. Last night though - particularly in the last q - we were completely out on our feet. Blame Hawthorn, blame travel, blame Brisbane, blame the coaches...whatever. If you bomb away rather than run the ball you are simply not going to score goals.

[DOG GOD]

Brisbane completely clogged our run and moved the ball with ease out of their defense. Why is it that each time we play against Travis Johnstone he pulls a stellar game out his ass? I'm sick of these hbf's running freely and even after 1 or 2 great quarters, the coaching staff refuse to put a strong tag on them.

Not much went right last night. Griff, Coon and Higgo all had bursts, but with players like Johnno and Aker out, its guys like these that really need to step up and take it to another level. We seem to lack direction and leadership out there without Johhno. Gia just doesnt do enough.

Everytime Minson or Cross got the ball last night i cringed. Has Cross's kicking skills gone backwards? It really amazes me how AFL standard players cant kick to save themselves. Its like he freezes everytime he goes to kick it, like there's no confidence there at all.

Crow, Saints and Demons are all big games and we need to win all 3 to get back on track.

Next question is what to do with our very slow fwd line?

[LostDoggy]

LOL. 'Cos it aint just about the forward line?

We have totally changed the structure of the side with Hall and it is going to take some time for everyone to get used to it. Last night though - particularly in the last q - we were completely out on our feet. Blame Hawthorn, blame travel, blame Brisbane, blame the coaches...whatever. If you bomb away rather than run the ball you are simply not going to score goals.

I agree. Accompanied with poor decision making and execution of skills really hurt. I felt sorry for some of our backs. They'd work hard, we'd win the ball then give it straight back again. That's just a tad disheartening. Look at how many times we spilled easy marks, kicked the ball straight to a Brisbane player, missed handballs, fumbled, couldn't get run and carry going. If you look at the game you'll see because we were so poor at moving the ball out of defence it made it very easy for Brisbane to get their zone set up, and we had no chance of getting through with the skills we were dishing up.

[Charlie the Wonder Dog]

I've come to the conclusion, that as a side we are unable to maintain the intensity at the contest we would like for 22 rounds + finals. Its like the group we have do not have the mental toughness to week in and week out be primed for a tough contest. My conclusion is based largely on watching us over the last 4 years.

Whether this will prove to be our undoing I do not know. Despite being up and down we have managed to win enough games to make the top four in the last two years and also played well enough in finals to make the PF in both years. Only time and fortune will tell if we are lucky enough to make the GF, whether we can string 6 -7 games of high intensity football together.

I don't necessarily hold Rocket or whomever might be our captain accountable for this, I think it is just peculiar to the group of blokes we have.

[GVGjr]

I don't necessarily hold Rocket or whomever might be our captain accountable for this, I think it is just peculiar to the group of blokes we have.

Perhaps it's one of the problems of having an older list?

[G-Mo77]

I've come to the conclusion, that as a side we are unable to maintain the intensity at the contest we would like for 22 rounds + finals. Its like the group we have do not have the mental toughness to week in and week out be primed for a tough contest. My conclusion is based largely on watching us over the last 4 years.

Whether this will prove to be our undoing I do not know. Despite being up and down we have managed to win enough games to make the top four in the last two years and also played well enough in finals to make the PF in both years. Only time and fortune will tell if we are lucky enough to make the GF, whether we can string 6 -7 games of high intensity football together.

I don't necessarily hold Rocket or whomever might be our captain accountable for this, I think it is just peculiar to the group of blokes we have.

I've got nothing much to add to this but love the handle.

Charlie the Wonder Dog is there anything you can't do?
Charlie the Wonder Dog, Charlie we love you.

I'm a big fan!

[chef]

LOL. 'Cos it aint just about the forward line?

We have totally changed the structure of the side with Hall and it is going to take some time for everyone to get used to it. Last night though - particularly in the last q - we were completely out on our feet. Blame Hawthorn, blame travel, blame Brisbane, blame the coaches...whatever. If you bomb away rather than run the ball you are simply not going to score goals.

Yep, I agree. We also came up against a good side in form last night.

Would the Gabba be the hardest road trip ATM?

[LostDoggy]

I remember seeing us play as if very tired last year in the pre season cup. It transpired that we had loaded up their training that week. I'm wondering if the same could be said this time...because...I again saw blokes standing outside the contest, watching. The fact this happened in the last quarter suggests to me that we just did not have the legs to run out the game.

Why was this? Possible reasons -

1. Illness. Were some of our players not well? I haven't seen Murphy have so little impact. He seemed to be slow all night. Moles was slow. Was he injured? Hargrave wasn't thinking clearly and reacting slowly as if he wasn't ready. It only takes one or two players to be off their game and the loose man can be created easily, resulting in our other players having to work extra hard.

2. Shortish break after intense physical game against the Hawks. Did we have sore bodies out there?

3. Beaten by a better team. Twice now we have been beaten by a team that has been able to use its quick players across the ground to put pressure on our ball carriers, cut the angles and crowd us into coughing up the ball.

4. Training heavy??? No idea but the fact that some players were standing still outside the pack and spectating (eg Higgins) instead of working to support their team mates in the last quarter suggests to me that we were stuffed.

We also continue to gift goal opportunities to the opposition with poor unforced errors, some of which may be attributable to tiredness, and some to lack of skill. Minson, Lake and Hargrave to name 3.

[Dazza]

Skills and decision making are well down. To give up 31 shots at goal from direct turnovers is unacceptable. The majority of those turnovers were coming out of our backline where we seemed to just kick long to a 2 vs 1.

[Go_Dogs]

Would the Gabba be the hardest road trip ATM?

Freo and the Swans certainly wouldn't be easy away missions either.

[LostDoggy]

It's definitely time for the team to have a crisis meating. They need to really turn this around quick and it's time for a little peer group pressure to point out some home truths to some of the boys going along at half pace at the moment.

[Doc26]

We have totally changed the structure of the side with Hall and it is going to take some time for everyone to get used to it.

Well we better get our skates on or a top 4 berth will be out of reach before we know it. Our window is more geared to this year than next. With Johnno, Aker, Eagle and even Harbrow (please not) likely/possible departures it will be a new look again for 2011.


Perhaps it's one of the problems of having an older list?

Mmmm, can't teach old dogs new tricks

[comrade]

Well we better get our skates on or a top 4 berth will be out of reach before we know it. Our window is more geared to this year than next. With Johnno, Aker, Eagle and even Harbrow (please not) likely/possible departures it will be a new look again for 2011.


If we win next week, we're in the same situation as last year. If we then go on to beat the Saints (tough ask but not impossible), we'll actually be one win ahead.

Yes, we're not playing well, but I still have enough faith to be believe that we'll get it right in time to secure a top 4 berth. I'd rather we play badly now, than in August.

Hopefully a second poor loss is the catalyst for some players to start working harder.

[Jasper]

The most annoying thing for me is that watching TOP sides like Geelong and St.Kilda that we are suppose to be as good as play 4 qtrs every week and are switched on every second. For some reason we never play 1st quaters properly and in some games it really hurts us on the scoreboard.

[LostDoggy]

My theory is that if you play Hawthorn one week you lose the next week especially if you are playing interstate the following week. Check it out. This works especially if you beat Hawthorn. Note Melbourne nearly beat Collingwood after being beaten by Hawthorn. Don't therefore pick the Pies to beat Essendon next week!!! Although this game is another Collingwood home game at the MCG.

[The Adelaide Connection]

The most annoying thing for me is that watching TOP sides like Geelong and St.Kilda that we are suppose to be as good as play 4 qtrs every week and are switched on every second. For some reason we never play 1st quaters properly and in some games it really hurts us on the scoreboard.

I don't think you are watching enough Geelong and St.Kilda games. I would argue that they don't always play 4 quarters and they are not always switched on. Look at the Saints v Collingwood game or even the Prelim against us as examples.

I would argue that the big difference is that these teams seem to be able to weather the storm and minimise damage better when they are down. Last night we could not do that and with the blink of an eye we went from being 30 points up to being level and, well, you know the rest.

[Remi Moses]

I've come to the conclusion, that as a side we are unable to maintain the intensity at the contest we would like for 22 rounds + finals. Its like the group we have do not have the mental toughness to week in and week out be primed for a tough contest. My conclusion is based largely on watching us over the last 4 years.

Whether this will prove to be our undoing I do not know. Despite being up and down we have managed to win enough games to make the top four in the last two years and also played well enough in finals to make the PF in both years. Only time and fortune will tell if we are lucky enough to make the GF, whether we can string 6 -7 games of high intensity football together.

I don't necessarily hold Rocket or whomever might be our captain accountable for this, I think it is just peculiar to the group of blokes we have.

Bingo! Thinking the same thing we just cannot maintain the same intensity that Geelong or Stkilda do!!Needs to change immediately

[LostDoggy]

We were extremely fortunate to be beaten by only 22 points. Seventy two forward entries to 39 sums up the difference betwen the two sides. We can't blame the forward line and the new struture for being bashed when the ball doesn't get into their area.

Brisbane were without their number one ruckman and their best mid-feielder yet they smashed us in that area. In the last quarter in particular, we couldn't get our hands on the ball.

Hargrave was back to his form of '95 giving away stupid free kicks. I thought he had risen above that. Moles is too slow at this level and we don't help ourselves by playing Hudson and Minson on the ball together. Hill still lacks the endeavour and intensity to compete one on one unless it is a marking situation and needs to go back to Willy until he can learn how to play the modern game.

I'm not sure whether it was the game against Hawthorn or some other issue but we were dead on our feet from three- quarter time on. No running into space and no running with the ball. Over the four games the players appear to be no where near as fit as last year.

The bright spots for us among a dismal lot were Lake in particular, Morris (until overwhelmed by sheer weight of Brisbane forward thrusts) Williams (who got in the hole to make life hard for the big two) Giansiracusa (who could teach most of the side how to dispose of the ball to the team's advantage) and Hall who could have kicked anything had we got the ball into his area with some regularity.

We are a long way from playing at our best and unless this improves markedly and quickly we are consigned to another season of ordinariness.

[Mantis]

The bright spots for us among a dismal lot were Lake in particular, Morris (until overwhelmed by sheer weight of Brisbane forward thrusts) Williams (who got in the hole to make life hard for the big two) Giansiracusa (who could teach most of the side how to dispose of the ball to the team's advantage) and Hall who could have kicked anything had we got the ball into his area with some regularity.



Yeah he can dispose of it efficiently, but he can only get it when someone else gives it to him.

At present more than half of our forwards are unable to exert any influence unless the ball is deleivered to them on a silver platter and that isn't good enough.

[Mofra]

Playing Hawthorn, physical encounter, 6 day break, travelling and a resulting loss to an unbeaten side.
That was Geelong last week, and us this week.

I don't see a need for panic yet - Geelong were 2-3 after round 5 in 2007 and their season turned out pretty well in the end.

We have Johnno & Aker to come back, Ward & Picken will be pushing for selection in the 2nd half of the year and we will click with Hall the more games we play.

I wouldn't write off the Bulldogs yet, the game on the weekend was nowhere near as bad as the 2nd WCE loss last year and we were one dive & one straight kick from the GF last year (with Welsh instead of Hall).

[Go_Dogs]

Playing Hawthorn, physical encounter, 6 day break, travelling and a resulting loss to an unbeaten side.
That was Geelong last week, and us this week.

Except for the part where we got absolutely dominated in play, where as Geelong broke even or perhaps even had an advantage in general play against Fremantle. Apples and oranges IMO.

[Mofra]

Except for the part where we got absolutely dominated in play, where as Geelong broke even or perhaps even had an advantage in general play against Fremantle. Apples and oranges IMO.
Not really - we were in control for most of the first half, tired in the end and continually turned the ball over with tired kicks to contests as we couldn't run & create space.

You don't think we looked tired?

[Topdog]

If we win next week, we're in the same situation as last year. If we then go on to beat the Saints (tough ask but not impossible), we'll actually be one win ahead.

Yes, we're not playing well, but I still have enough faith to be believe that we'll get it right in time to secure a top 4 berth. I'd rather we play badly now, than in August.

Hopefully a second poor loss is the catalyst for some players to start working harder.

Thats how I'm thinking at the moment.

[Topdog]

Except for the part where we got absolutely dominated in play, where as Geelong broke even or perhaps even had an advantage in general play against Fremantle. Apples and oranges IMO.

Freo smashed Geelong in the last quarter. They kicked 6.5 in the last quarter.

[LostDoggy]

Yeah he can dispose of it efficiently, but he can only get it when someone else gives it to him.

At present more than half of our forwards are unable to exert any influence unless the ball is deleivered to them on a silver platter and that isn't good enough.

Mate, if you can't get it in there, not much point in blaming the forwards. The trouble was further up the field eg look at how useless we were at getting the ball out of the backline especially after a kick out

[Mantis]

Mate, if you can't get it in there, not much point in blaming the forwards. The trouble was further up the field eg look at how useless we were at getting the ball out of the backline especially after a kick out

Agree with that.

The behind the goal vision showed a lack of movement for our kick outs even in the first qtr..... It was shitful. Gilbee & Harbrow would have been incredibly frustrated with the lack of options they had.

The fact still remains that players like Gia and Hill and to a lesser extent Higgins still need to find a way to get into the game even when the ball isn't getting into our forwardline. If this means they have to push into the back half to create an option then do it, sure beats getting bored up forward waiting for the ball to come down.

[LostDoggy]

The current side is good enough to beat any team in the competition and we have shown it.

The problem is the massive gulf between our best and worst, Saints and Cats dont seem to have this issue. There really has to be a level of application questioned, the second quarter we were flying, why cant we do this a bit more regularly? Not sure if I should watch another dogs first qtr, whats with that? Thats not a team skill issue. Do we need a scratch match before the game starts?

I dont think there should be too many excuses after the Brisbane and Collingwood games we just need to thump the crows and beat the Saints with a four quarter effort, well in the realms of possibilty, in fact, we should be favourites with Roo missing. In my mind anyway.

My man Will needs a break in the VFL.

[bornadog]

Agree with that.

The behind the goal vision showed a lack of movement for our kick outs even in the first qtr..... It was shitful. Gilbee & Harbrow would have been incredibly frustrated with the lack of options they had.

The fact still remains that players like Gia and Hill and to a lesser extent Higgins still need to find a way to get into the game even when the ball isn't getting into our forwardline. If this means they have to push into the back half to create an option then do it, sure beats getting bored up forward waiting for the ball to come down.

To an extent Gia and Higgins do move away from the forward line, whereas Hill looks a little lost.

[Go_Dogs]

Not really - we were in control for most of the first half, tired in the end and continually turned the ball over with tired kicks to contests as we couldn't run & create space.

You don't think we looked tired?

Not disputing that we were tired at all.


Just saying that I think we were completely dominated towards the end of the game. They had almost double the number of I50's, and about 40-50 more disposals. Geelong were only just beaten in the I50's, and had plenty more disposal (yes, I know they are a high disposal team, but it illustrates that they continued to work, and were competitive).




Freo smashed Geelong in the last quarter. They kicked 6.5 in the last quarter.

Yes, and Geelong kicked 3.2 in the last, as much as we kicked in the entire second half!

Not sure if you caught the Freo v Geelong game or not, but I would hardly say Fremantle dominated them. They got a run on in the end and got a few goals, but it was hardly to the level that we were smashed on Saturday night.

[Dazza]

I'm starting to think I'd prefer our midfielders get pinged for holding the ball than to just bang it on the boot from the centre clearance. We turn the ball over so much doing this and it hurts us badly going the other way. It would be a different story if the ball got inside the f50 but currently the balls dropping short of the 50 and Murphy is usually going 2 against 1 and the backman run off our forwards on the turnover.

Our mids need a kick up the arse after last weeks effort.

[Topdog]

Yes, and Geelong kicked 3.2 in the last, as much as we kicked in the entire second half!

Not sure if you caught the Freo v Geelong game or not, but I would hardly say Fremantle dominated them. They got a run on in the end and got a few goals, but it was hardly to the level that we were smashed on Saturday night.

I saw it and Geelong's goals came from breaks. Freo were in complete control in the last quarter and sure it wasn't as badly as we were dominated but they still were comprehensively outplayed in the last.

[Desipura]

At present more than half of our forwards are unable to exert any influence unless the ball is deleivered to them on a silver platter and that isn't good enough.

True. Also if Murphy does not get a metre on his opponent, we then kick it long to Barry.
He is not renowned for taking pack marks so when it spills to ground, our crumbers are not nippy/quick enough to reap the rewards or are not applying enough defensive pressure.

A centre half forward who can take an overhead mark would be handy.
We do not have a CHF at present, so it all boils down to not having enough run out of the midfield which results in poor delivery into the forward line.

[DOG GOD]

I get very frustrated when i think of Hill's first few games last year where he played a roving wing, hfward and did quite well, only to see the coaching stafff try to turn him into a permanent marking fwd. Hill's best attribute is his leap and overhead marking, which would be a great asset in the midfield, similar to a brennan without the engine ofcourse.

Talking of Gia, could he play a hbf role, similar to that that Johnstone played for Brisbane. If Gia's kicking is as good as what some think on here, could this be a possibility?

[giaco]

I get very frustrated when i think of Hill's first few games last year where he played a roving wing, hfward and did quite well, only to see the coaching stafff try to turn him into a permanent marking fwd. Hill's best attribute is his leap and overhead marking, which would be a great asset in the midfield, similar to a brennan without the engine ofcourse.



I was just thinking the same thing. Hill is just wasting away up forward. Why not give him a couple of games up the field to get his confidence up? He's a good option on the way out of the backline because of his marking, and he uses it quite well too. Maybe this will happen when Johnno comes back as he will probably play deeper forward because of lack of fitness.

I also think that Grant has to be thrown in for a 3-4 game stint at sometime this year, so that we can make a call on him at the end of the year.

[Sedat]

Freo smashed Geelong in the last quarter. They kicked 6.5 in the last quarter.
Geelong were still in front with 1.24 left on the clock. They were in the contest for longer than we were against Brisbane because they didn't take unfit/injured players with them to Perth.

[Pickenitup]

I would rather have this form slump now then come September we will be ok this team has something very special about it

[Topdog]

Geelong were still in front with 1.24 left on the clock. They were in the contest for longer than we were against Brisbane because they didn't take unfit/injured players with them to Perth.

probably because they were suspended :p

[Sedat]

probably because they were suspended :p
Some were, but they did rest Ottens and played a first gamer, Dawson Simpson, in his place. Not sure we would have done the same thing.

[FrediKanoute]

If we win next week, we're in the same situation as last year. If we then go on to beat the Saints (tough ask but not impossible), we'll actually be one win ahead.

Yes, we're not playing well, but I still have enough faith to be believe that we'll get it right in time to secure a top 4 berth. I'd rather we play badly now, than in August.

Hopefully a second poor loss is the catalyst for some players to start working harder.

I don't think we have particularly started the last couple of seasons that well. The difference is though that we haven't previously won the pre-season comp which I think is playing havoc with supporters expectations.

The next 3 games will tell us a lot. We should smash the crows and account for Melbourne. The Saints game is winnable, especially as they don't have "the soft touch diver".

Lets reassess after round 7/8 with a third of the season gone.

[LostDoggy]

True. Also if Murphy does not get a metre on his opponent, we then kick it long to Barry.
He is not renowned for taking pack marks so when it spills to ground, our crumbers are not nippy/quick enough to reap the rewards or are not applying enough defensive pressure.

A centre half forward who can take an overhead mark would be handy.
We do not have a CHF at present, so it all boils down to not having enough run out of the midfield which results in poor delivery into the forward line.

I will say it again - i would love to see Everitt played alongside Murphy across Half Forward. Get him out of the defensive area where he just doesnt seem comfortable and let him present an option. He has decent size and seems to have upped his intensity this year. Please give it a go Rocket.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I will say it again - i would love to see Everitt played alongside Murphy across Half Forward. Get him out of the defensive area where he just doesnt seem comfortable and let him present an option. He has decent size and seems to have upped his intensity this year. Please give it a go Rocket.

Yep - never been a fan of Everitt as a defender, despite his improvement in the role this year.

We can't play both Hill and Everitt in the forward half, but considering Josh's form - I'd either drop him or move him onto the wing to allow Andrejs hold a spot at CHF.

[Remi Moses]

''On the Couch'' had a stat that we had recorded the second amount of turnovers ever!!! I believe it was 94 or 95,a very very embarassing stat that one:mad:

[bornadog]

Yep - never been a fan of Everitt as a defender, despite his improvement in the role this year.

We can't play both Hill and Everitt in the forward half, but considering Josh's form - I'd either drop him or move him onto the wing to allow Andrejs hold a spot at CHF.

I can't see why you can't play Everitt and Hill both in the forward line. I think Everitt could develop into a CHF. I too don't like him in the back line.

[Dogz-21]

Brisbane completely clogged our run and moved the ball with ease out of their defense. Why is it that each time we play against Travis Johnstone he pulls a stellar game out his ass? I'm sick of these hbf's running freely and even after 1 or 2 great quarters, the coaching staff refuse to put a strong tag on them.

Not much went right last night. Griff, Coon and Higgo all had bursts, but with players like Johnno and Aker out, its guys like these that really need to step up and take it to another level. We seem to lack direction and leadership out there without Johhno. Gia just doesnt do enough.

Everytime Minson or Cross got the ball last night i cringed. Has Cross's kicking skills gone backwards? It really amazes me how AFL standard players cant kick to save themselves. Its like he freezes everytime he goes to kick it, like there's no confidence there at all.

Crow, Saints and Demons are all big games and we need to win all 3 to get back on track.

Next question is what to do with our very slow fwd line?

Johnstone was poor in the games against us in 2009 and 2008

[chef]

I can't see why you can't play Everitt and Hill both in the forward line. I think Everitt could develop into a CHF. I too don't like him in the back line.

I do too.

[LostDoggy]

I would like to see Everitt in the forward line, but really Hill does need to learn some hard work ethics but not in the ones, he needs a run with Willy, give Grant a run in his place, I have seen all the Willy games this year (inc. practice matches, and I went up to the Gold Coast) and Grant has performed a hell of a lot better than last year (he needed too) and is taking some great pack marks and playing with some good intensity, still a way to go but worth a run in place of Hill. Roughead is also ready for a run and must be given a chance in place of big Will.

[LostDoggy]

I don't think we have particularly started the last couple of seasons that well.

As opposed to some seasons previously where we've won Round 1 comfortably and played well in the early parts of the season but been nowhere to be seen/uncompetitive at the pointy end. Some coaches -- Roos in particular -- put very little stock in the first 5 rounds of the season because while you don't want to get too far behind on the W-L ratio, it is the part of the season that has the least bearing on the season as a whole.

By finals, Round 1-5 are a distant memory, and it matters little if you won all those games but have fizzed out or are out of form, or have a massive injury list. I can think of at least 3 examples of Grand Finalists/Premiers in the last 10 years that have started 1-4, and conversely, at least one example of a team that went 5-0 and ended up missing the 8 altogether. The most dominant team of the modern era (Lions three-peat team) never even won a minor premiership, and actually suffered a few beltings even in their Premiership seasons -- Matthews was all about timing form and having a finals-type gameplan that was better suited to September than the H&A season (Vossy is going down the same path).

I think the last couple of seasons with Hawthorn and the Saints being such dominant H&A teams in 2008/2009 respectively where they barely lost a game all season has skewed the expectations of what Premiers are supposed to be like (and the Saints didn't even win) -- although it could also be that the standard required has just improved out of sight (probably thanks to Geelong upping the ante). Historically, though, a 14-15 win season (up to 7/8 losses) can get you a top 4 berth, after which anything can happen.

[Mofra]

Historically, though, a 14-15 win season (up to 7/8 losses) can get you a top 4 berth, after which anything can happen.
Two 13.5 win seasons can get you back to back premierships if I remember the 1997-98 years correctly.

Geelong were 2-3 after round 5 in 2007 including a loss to the Bulldogs in round 1. I would have preferred their season in 07 to ours.

[LostDoggy]

We lost the first three in '54

[Sockeye Salmon]

By finals, Round 1-5 are a distant memory, and it matters little if you won all those games but have fizzed out or are out of form, or have a massive injury list. I can think of at least 3 examples of Grand Finalists/Premiers in the last 10 years that have started 1-4, and conversely, at least one example of a team that went 5-0 and ended up missing the 8 altogether.

St. Kilda a few years back was 12-0 til we beat them and while I can't remember exactly where they came I know they didn't make the GF.

Richmond were 8-2 one year and didn't make the finals, from memory.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

St. Kilda a few years back was 12-0 til we beat them and while I can't remember exactly where they came I know they didn't make the GF.

I think they may have been in 2004 when they lost to Port Adelaide in the PF?

Richmond were 8-2 one year and didn't make the finals, from memory.[/QUOTE]

This was 2005 - Brown's first year at the club prior to injury wasn't it?

I agree we've all got caught up in Geelong and St. Kilda's dominant form over the past two to three years. Collingwood and The Dogs won't win as many games as those two sides, but would give themselves a real shot in the finals ala 2009.

Didn't Hawthorn win something like 9 straight and miss the finals earlier this decade too?

[Mofra]

Didn't Hawthorn win something like 9 straight and miss the finals earlier this decade too?
Remember something similar - we did barnstorm the competition in late 06 only to narrowly miss the finals because of a soft free paid against Skipper in a Melbourne game.