I hate to say it, but it's Gia's fault.

[LostDoggy]

He kicks the goal from right in front instead of playing on and kicking into the player on the mark, we win. As simple as that.

He scores, we get to 50 points. In the end, we lost to a team that scored 49 points.

Deja vu, from when he missed the last shot in the Prelim. Hate to say it, but champions kick those, and would have kicked it tonight.

[LostDoggy]

Cant blame it on Gia, sure he should have kicked the goal but played well the rest of the night :(

[Mantis]

If Grant kicks the goal we win.

If Hahn kicks a couple in the 2nd we win.

If Dale holds a couple of marks he usually takes in the last 5 minutes we win.

Would you like me to continue?

[Before I Die]

He kicks the goal from right in front instead of playing on and kicking into the player on the mark, we win. As simple as that.

He scores, we get to 50 points. In the end, we lost to a team that scored 49 points.

Why don't you blame Hall for his reversed free that was a certain goal or Williams for doing a Minson? It was a crap game to watch and nobodies/everybodies fault. If St. Kilda are going to rely on rolling the dice like that each week, they won't make the four.

[w3design]

If Grant kicks the goal we win.

If Hahn kicks a couple in the 2nd we win.

If Dale holds a couple of marks he usually takes in the last 5 minutes we win.

Would you like me to continue?

I am a massive fan of Dale, but so far this year he is not that rock solid guy he used to be. I wonder if the presence of Williams and Everitt, even though both are improving (yep I know Tommy still does some shockers) has unsettled that chemistry that seemd to be there b/n Hargrave, Lake and Morris.

[LostDoggy]

If Grant kicks the goal we win.

If Hahn kicks a couple in the 2nd we win.

If Dale holds a couple of marks he usually takes in the last 5 minutes we win.

Would you like me to continue?

Come on, you can't tell me that Gia choosing to play on after marking right in front, then kicking into the player on the mark is in any way similar to any of the other incidents you've just listed.

I love Gia, and have defended him endlessly on this forum against uninformed opinions, but enough excuses for him already.

Every one of your other examples were errors of skill or pressure, and in far more difficult situations. Gia's was just pure stupidity. If he went back he WOULD have kicked it. It was an error of judgment, followed by a horrendous skill error, which, in a low scoring game, demanded far more than was delivered by a leader.

[angelopetraglia]

What cost us the most was trying to go so precise and cute with dinky passes in the middle of the square in traffic. So, so risky without any reward.

At least if you go long, even if you turn it over, they have to come back through you. What we did was suicide. No need to go long every single time, but every now and then you have too. They always looked under pressure when the ball was deep in our forward line.

[Ozza]

I am staggered that you started a whole thread for this crap.

[LostDoggy]

Why don't you blame Hall for his reversed free that was a certain goal or Williams for doing a Minson? It was a crap game to watch and nobodies/everybodies fault. If St. Kilda are going to rely on rolling the dice like that each week, they won't make the four.

Because Gia's would have been the game-icing goal. He would have known it as much as anyone else out there, which is why he tried to put the exclamation mark on it by playing on. He kicks the goal, the game would have been over as a contest.

His miss hands the momentum back, and we never regain it. 12 inside 50s for two marks in the fourth, and that was the mark closest to goal. It should have been iced.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Come on, you can't tell me that Gia choosing to play on after marking right in front, then kicking into the player on the mark is in any way similar to any of the other incidents you've just listed.

I love Gia, and have defended him endlessly on this forum against uninformed opinions, but enough excuses for him already.

Every one of your other examples were errors of skill or pressure, and in far more difficult situations. Gia's was just pure stupidity. If he went back he WOULD have kicked it. It was an error of judgment, followed by a horrendous skill error, which, in a low scoring game, demanded far more than was delivered by a leader.

And how about Halls brain fade which cost us a shot on goal, or Williams running across the mark. These were more stupid than Gia's failure to execute. Yes he should've gone back and had the shot, and whilst it was a crucial error, it was no worse/better than any other number of other errors that also were vital in the scheme of things.

[LostDoggy]

I am staggered that you started a whole thread for this crap.

I am staggered you bothered to comment if you have nothing to add. Last I checked it was a free country.

Oh wait, you own WOOF, right? Sorry sir.

[Ozza]

I am staggered you bothered to comment if you have nothing to add. Last I checked it was a free country.

Oh wait, you own WOOF, right? Sorry sir.

.

You posted the rubbish comment on another thread and could have left it at that.

[Dry Rot]

If Grant kicks the goal we win.

If Hahn kicks a couple in the 2nd we win.

If Dale holds a couple of marks he usually takes in the last 5 minutes we win.

Would you like me to continue?

Agreed. Only listened to the radio call, but a number of turning points could be considered, involving various players.

Bit rich IMO to just blame Gia.

[LostDoggy]

And how about Halls brain fade which cost us a shot on goal, or Williams running across the mark. These were more stupid than Gia's failure to execute. Yes he should've gone back and had the shot, and whilst it was a crucial error, it was no worse/better than any other number of other errors that also were vital in the scheme of things.

Yes, they were.

Gia could have won the game. Same as the Prelim. Sometimes it just comes down to one moment where a low-scoring game is won or lost. He kicks it, we win.

Really, the game was lost when Addison and Hahn mucked up the 2-on-1 on the wing from a Saints kick out, and Hahn handballed to Williams under pressure, who loses it, and Milney kicks the goal from the turnover that changes the momentum.

I'm just saying that Gia, of all the players out there, and as a leader, has the onus to deliver. More so than Grant. More so than Williams, or Addison, or even Hahn. He's the next captain of the club, or isn't he?

[LostDoggy]

Agreed. Only listened to the radio call, but a number of turning points could be considered, involving various players.

Bit rich IMO to just blame Gia.

None of the other mistakes were from opportunities handed to them on a platter.

Anyway, never mind.

[LostDoggy]

You posted the rubbish comment on another thread and could have left it at that.

Who died and made you comment police?

And it's rich calling a comment rubbish coming from you, probably among the 5 most rubbish contributors on the site.

No one's making you read anything, mate.

[LostDoggy]

Please delete thread moderators. Clearly free speech isn't tolerated anymore..

Anyone who's been on this site for any length of time knows that I am one of Gia's biggest defenders (if not the biggest), and I rarely post after a loss.

But never mind. Let's keep the peace.

[Doc26]

I'm just saying that Gia, of all the players out there, and as a leader, has the onus to deliver. More so than Grant. More so than Williams, or Addison, or even Hahn. He's the next captain of the club, or isn't he?

Gia's past couple of weeks have been very good with one gigantuan stuff up tonight. Not my preferred choice of Captain of this Club but he can be excused for one mistake as crucial as it was at the time.

[Dry Rot]

None of the other mistakes were from opportunities handed to them on a platter.

Anyway, never mind.

Wasn't an easy goal opportunity lost when a free was reversed because of Hall?

Agre that Gia has to nail goals like that, but he's not alone.

[mighty_west]

If Grant kicks the goal we win.

If Hahn kicks a couple in the 2nd we win.

If Dale holds a couple of marks he usually takes in the last 5 minutes we win.

Would you like me to continue?

All true, however, the game turned after Gia's massive error, all momentum went the Saints way after that.

[Mantis]

Who died and made you comment police?

And it's rich calling a comment rubbish coming from you, probably among the 5 most rubbish contributors on the site.

No one's making you read anything, mate.

I actually think Ozza goes ok and seriously Lantern you are better than this... Been on the sauce??

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Yes, they were.

Gia could have won the game. Same as the Prelim. Sometimes it just comes down to one moment where a low-scoring game is won or lost. He kicks it, we win.

Really, the game was lost when Addison and Hahn mucked up the 2-on-1 on the wing from a Saints kick out, and Hahn handballed to Williams under pressure, who loses it, and Milney kicks the goal from the turnover that changes the momentum.
I'm just saying that Gia, of all the players out there, and as a leader, has the onus to deliver. More so than Grant. More so than Williams, or Addison, or even Hahn. He's the next captain of the club, or isn't he?

I understand what you are saying and you have presented a cogent argument to support your case. However I think you have in some regard hit the nail on the head in the bolded comment above, and highlighted that other moments were just as crucial in deciding the result, and therefore that it wasn't just down to Guido's one piece of poor play.


In the scheme of things many of the thing s Guido did tonight were important in us getting to the position we were in, can we say the same for Williams, or Hall, or Shaggy for that matter to name a few who had overall poor performances.
Someone said in another thread that it was the combined efforts of the Saints to fight as 22 when it counted, that saw them take the opportunities to win., whereas there were a some players for us who did not have great nights, and whose overall efforts were not as good as Guido's in getting us in a winning position

[LostDoggy]

I actually think Ozza goes ok and seriously Lantern you are better than this... Been on the sauce??

Haha.. no, on a diet. Maybe the same thing.

I think Ozza goes okay too, just didn't appreciate the personal barb and over-reacted.

[GVGjr]

I actually think Ozza goes ok and seriously Lantern you are better than this...

What he said.
Ozza's entitled to challenge anyone views and from what I've read so far he's gone about it in the right manner.

[bornadog]

Come on, you can't tell me that Gia choosing to play on after marking right in front, then kicking into the player on the mark is in any way similar to any of the other incidents you've just listed.

I love Gia, and have defended him endlessly on this forum against uninformed opinions, but enough excuses for him already.

Every one of your other examples were errors of skill or pressure, and in far more difficult situations. Gia's was just pure stupidity. If he went back he WOULD have kicked it. It was an error of judgment, followed by a horrendous skill error, which, in a low scoring game, demanded far more than was delivered by a leader.

Sorry I usually enjoy your contributions to the forum, but this thread stinks.

Gilbee should have nailed it running towards goal. Grant had two set shots in the last quarter as well.

Hahn kicks a poor kick to Williams who ahs to try and bend and it it up, Saints get the ball and bang.

At the end of the day we have ourselves as a team to blame.

[G-Mo77]

I thought Hahn's shocking pass to Williams was the real bad one.

What happened with Hall and that turn over? That was also a certain goal. Gilbee 35 out I had that penciled in.

[AndrewP6]

If Grant kicks the goal we win.

If Hahn kicks a couple in the 2nd we win.

If Dale holds a couple of marks he usually takes in the last 5 minutes we win.

Would you like me to continue?

Agreed, plus:

If Hall doesn't give away the dumb free, we get a great chance to goal (although in that game, no certainty!)

[LostDoggy]

Sorry I usually enjoy your contributions to the forum, but this thread stinks.

Gilbee should have nailed it running towards goal. Grant had two set shots in the last quarter as well.

Hahn kicks a poor kick to Williams who ahs to try and bend and it it up, Saints get the ball and bang.

At the end of the day we have ourselves as a team to blame.

Okay, okay, I concede the point. I'm in the singular minority here.

I still can't see how kicking into the man on the mark from ten metres in front of goal (probably a once in a season occurence across the league) can't be seen as far worse than any of the other errors, all of which happen regularly. I mean, people kick behinds all the time, and turnovers are common. Kicking into the man on the mark from 10 metres in front when it would have been a winning goal.. seems like a whole other level of error to me.

On a scale, it would be like:

Bad turnover kick > Kicking a behind > Kicking out on the full > Holding the ball >>> Giving away a 50m penalty >>>>>>>>>>>>> Being the 19th man on the field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Missing the winning goal from right in front by playing on needlessly and kicking into the man on the mark

But it looks like I'm alone on this one. I'll wear it.

[G-Mo77]

I still can't see how kicking into the man on the mark from ten metres in front of goal

10 metres? I would have said 30 - 40 M out but it was at the opposite end to me. It was nowhere near that close to goal.

[KT31]

10 metres? I would have said 30 - 40 M out but it was at the opposite end to me. It was nowhere near that close to goal.

30m and if you are inside 50 as a forward you go back and nail it!

[G-Mo77]

30m and if you are inside 50 as a forward you go back and nail it!

No arguments from me. Especially when we barely had a set shot inside 50 all night.

[LostDoggy]

The funny thing is that everyone's taken this as a 'bagging Gia' thread, but it's not what I intended at all -- I've said in other threads that I think we played really well, and there's nothing too negative to take from this game except that we dropped 4 points. I don't even think that Gia played a bad game, but he really needed to put that away as a reward for all the hard work the team put in.

All I'm saying is that everything worked, and all Gia had to do was nail that, and it was game over. I was just very disappointed that he left the door ajar, and surely it's not unfair to point that out.

[angelopetraglia]

The funny thing is that everyone's taken this as a 'bagging Gia' thread, but it's not what I intended at all -- I've said in other threads that I think we played really well, and there's nothing too negative to take from this game except that we dropped 4 points. I don't even think that Gia played a bad game, but he really needed to put that away as a reward for all the hard work the team put in.

All I'm saying is that everything worked, and all Gia had to do was nail that, and it was game over. I was just very disappointed that he left the door ajar, and surely it's not unfair to point that out.

Eade even pointed this out in his pressy.

[G-Mo77]

The funny thing is that everyone's taken this as a 'bagging Gia' thread, but it's not what I intended at all -- I've said in other threads that I think we played really well, and there's nothing too negative to take from this game except that we dropped 4 points. I don't even think that Gia played a bad game, but he really needed to put that away as a reward for all the hard work the team put in.

All I'm saying is that everything worked, and all Gia had to do was nail that, and it was game over. I was just very disappointed that he left the door ajar, and surely it's not unfair to point that out.

No it's not unfair to point that out, everyone would agree it was a crucial error at a crucial part of the game. What I find very unfair is this "I hate to say it, but it's Gia's fault." In a close much were there was so many errors I think it's very unfair to say one player was at fault.

[Stefcep]

The funny thing is that everyone's taken this as a 'bagging Gia' thread, but it's not what I intended at all -- I've said in other threads that I think we played really well, and there's nothing too negative to take from this game except that we dropped 4 points. I don't even think that Gia played a bad game, but he really needed to put that away as a reward for all the hard work the team put in.

All I'm saying is that everything worked, and all Gia had to do was nail that, and it was game over. I was just very disappointed that he left the door ajar, and surely it's not unfair to point that out.

it was THE critical moment in the match.

[KT31]

No it's not unfair to point that out, everyone would agree it was a crucial error at a crucial part of the game. What I find very unfair is this "I hate to say it, but it's Gia's fault." In a close much were there was so many errors I think it's very unfair to say one player was at fault.

There is a point in the game when you can put the nail in the coffin and this was a critcal moment.
The Saints would have dropped their heads and we could have won.
Grant also missed a couple.
But as a leader IMO, Gia should have shown enough leadership to go back and kick the goal.

[angelopetraglia]

There is a point in the game when you can put the nail in the coffin and this was a critcal moment.
The Saints would have dropped their heads and we could have won.
Grant also missed a couple.
But as a leader IMO, Gia should have shown enough leadership to go back and kick the goal.

Gilbee on the run just missing was just as critical. He is in the team largely due to his elite kicking. He should have nailed that goal.

[KT31]

Gilbee on the run just missing was just as critical. He is in the team largely due to his elite kicking. He should have nailed that goal.

At least he had a shot.

[LostDoggy]

Everything was critical when only 13 goals are kicked for the whole game

[angelopetraglia]

Everything was critical when only 13 goals are kicked for the whole game

Very good point.

[G-Mo77]

There is a point in the game when you can put the nail in the coffin and this was a critcal moment.
The Saints would have dropped their heads and we could have won.
Grant also missed a couple.
But as a leader IMO, Gia should have shown enough leadership to go back and kick the goal.

And I'm not disagreeing as I said earlier. I just think it's unfair to blame one person.

Wind back the clock 2 years. Playing North Melbourne Johnson has a shot at goal after the siren to win the game, he misses. If there is nothing more critical than that I don't know what is. Would you blame him for the loss?

[KT31]

And I'm not disagreeing as I said earlier. I just think it's unfair to blame one person.

Wind back the clock 2 years. Playing North Melbourne Johnson has a shot at goal after the siren to win the game, he misses. If there is nothing more critical than that I don't know what is. Would you blame him for the loss?

At least he had a shot Gia took a totally different option and uncharacteristically tried to be fancy.
Inside 50 and named as a forwrd do what we pay you to do and kick the goal.

[G-Mo77]

At least he had a shot Gia took a totally different option and uncharacteristically tried to be fancy.
Inside 50 and named as a forwrd do what we pay you to do and kick the goal.

Again I'm not saying he didn't make a huge mistake. :confused:

Oh well, I'll agree to disagree then. It's grossly unfair to blame one person regardless of the situation. I'll just leave it at that.

[LostDoggy]

And I'm not disagreeing as I said earlier. I just think it's unfair to blame one person.

Wind back the clock 2 years. Playing North Melbourne Johnson has a shot at goal after the siren to win the game, he misses. If there is nothing more critical than that I don't know what is. Would you blame him for the loss?

I actually did.

It was the only other loss I've come on WOOF immediately after to point my finger at a player.

It doesn't invalidate all the great work that they do, but it doesn't change the fact that the result was on their boot, that one act determining a win or a loss (meaning that for the rest of the game the two teams, and all their mistakes, have essentially cancelled each other out, and so can be removed from the equation), and they missed, ergo the loss is technically their fault.

It's probably unfair, but it's rationally accurate.

ps. I was going to say that it separates the true greats from the mere champions, but that's not really true. I'm sure plenty of true greats have missed crucial shots at times. Gia should still have done better.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Very annoyed at Hall's free kick he gave away when WE had the ball lining up for goal. That is simply unforgiveable in a low scoring game. Gia's stupid decision was very costly at the time though.

The whole side went to water as soon as the pressure was applied.

[LostDoggy]

When you are running towards goal and there is an opposition player between you and a loose man in the goal square, you either kick the goal yourself or you handball the ball over your opponent's head.

You don't try the ridiculous kick that Gia tried tonight.

Then again (when considering how our team is handballing) if he had tried the handball, by the time the ball bounced three times before reaching Johnno and (when considering how our team handles the ball) after Johnno fumbled two or three times, he would have been tackled anyway.

[chef]

All true, however, the game turned after Gia's massive error, all momentum went the Saints way after that.

Hahn's stuffed up pass to Williams was the moment for me.

[Topdog]

Hahn's stuffed up pass to Williams was the moment for me.

I don't see how it can be any different. In a match that a team scored 7 goals in this turnover lead directly to a goal, got their heads up and they kicked another 2 goals in the space of 3 minutes.

Was a massive turnover and cost us the game. Our heads dropped as soon as that happened and the Saints lifted. Before that we were dealing with them quite easily.

Having said that what Gia did was stupid, should have gone back and nailed it (assuming no one gave away a free kick whilst he was lining up)

[LostDoggy]

The game now days, with teams such as ourselves, Cats, Saints and others, when crucial errors are made, you WILL be made to pay. We need to get better, make less mistakes under pressure and hurt the opposition when they do. The good thing though fellow dogs, is there is next week and we are lucky it wasnt a prelim.

[Desipura]

I just knew Gia was going to play on, its almost like he does not want the responsiblity to go back and kick the goal. Its like when a player is under the pump rather than getting out of the situation, he handballs to a teammate who is in a worse position. Very frustrating but he is not alone.

[Go_Dogs]

Was Gia trying to kick the goal when he played on, or go over the top to another Bulldog? Was hard to tell on the telecast.


It wasn't a good miss, as it was obviously one that he should've kicked.

As Mantis said, there were a few opportunities that we wasted over the course of the night. The Grant goal stuck in my mind probably more so, as I felt if we had kicked that the Saints wouldn't have come close.

[Mofra]

Bad turnover kick > Kicking a behind > Kicking out on the full > Holding the ball >>> Giving away a 50m penalty >>>>>>>>>>>>> Being the 19th man on the field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Missing the winning goal from right in front by playing on needlessly and kicking into the man on the mark
You missed "simple handball" which would be ahead of everything you listed.

Sorry Crossy, I was not very happy with your game tonight. Two hospital handballs and hands were not clean at all.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Everyone is having a crack at players who have had a crack and got it wrong. I'd much rather that that those who didn't get near it most of the night.

Eagle hardly made a mistake, of course he hardly touched the ball, either.

[Rocco Jones]

Everyone is having a crack at players who have had a crack and got it wrong. I'd much rather that that those who didn't get near it most of the night.

Eagle hardly made a mistake, of course he hardly touched the ball, either.

Such a good point.

I think Gia has some glaring deficiencies but at least he gets near it most games. He is the victim of having obvious deficiencies and subtle strengths, unfortunately most fans struggle enough with noticing the obvious stuff. I accept Gia for what he is.

[Flamethrower]

Laying blame is a bit of a pointless exercise. We win as a team and we lose as a team.

I agree that there was a momentum shift when Gia's kick was smothered, but we were still a few goal up. Not having extra players behind the ball when the Saints started getting on top was a bigger factor in the outcome, especially when your best contested marking defender decides to go forward when his direct opponent goes into the ruck.

The key is learning from our mistakes. Unfortunately it seems to be the same players who either go missing or make mental errors when the heat is on, year after year.

[LostDoggy]

Blame Gia are you serious?
No one wanted to go back and take a shot @ goal all night! Was it a dumb decision to play on? Yes
But for 3 and 1/2 qrts we controlled the ball and the game, we had tons of opportunities to kick goals in each quarter but chose to pass it around - Hahn, Eagleton in the second quarter as well as the ones we switched across half forward that were turned over... And Grants in the last quarter - should of kick at least 1 of them (Hill would of)
We were spent and got ran over the top of - because we didn't put them away!!!

[Topdog]

Everyone is having a crack at players who have had a crack and got it wrong. I'd much rather that that those who didn't get near it most of the night.

Eagle hardly made a mistake, of course he hardly touched the ball, either.

What is going on with Eagle? His kicking has been terrible this year.

[The Coon Dog]

What is going on with Eagle? His kicking has been terrible this year.

Reminds me a little of Bubba in his final year, you could see he wanted the ball to go through from outside 50, but the depth wasn't there any longer.

[AndrewP6]

Seems a lot of people on this and other threads, noting how tired/spent/stuffed we were. In recent seasons, our fitness has been lauded. Is it just this patch we're in (six day breaks, travel etc..). Thoughts?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Reminds me a little of Bubba in his final year, you could see he wanted the ball to go through from outside 50, but the depth wasn't there any longer.

Not sure about that, I think he just needs a bit of match fitness and game time. it was the second game back after all.

with the team taking pay cuts to keep him, I'm sure (hopeful) he comes good.

[LostDoggy]

Everyone is having a crack at players who have had a crack and got it wrong. I'd much rather that that those who didn't get near it most of the night.

Eagle hardly made a mistake, of course he hardly touched the ball, either.

Oh, didn't want to start on Eagle. Some blokes shouldn't even have been out there.

But that's not what this thread is about -- if I have a team at work, and their job is to land a contract, and this guy is the closer, and somehow the team gets into the position to close, and he doesn't close, it doesn't matter what else he's done, or what anyone else hasn't done.

He's there to close it.

The other guys I can get rid off for not pulling their weight. Drop Eagle (won't happen). Drop Hahn (won't happen). But for this game, that was the crucial moment, and Gia messed it up.

ps. the worst part of the whole thing was that I watched him immediately after he fluffed it, and I thought he would surely be filthy with himself and be busting a gut trying to make up for it by chasing the ball down, but he just turned casually around and jogged back up the ground, like he was hoping someone would win the ball and kick it back to him. That was probably what pissed me off more than the mistake itself. My memory could be faulty, and I'm sure he was stuffed after just running forward to take the mark in the first place, but that just didn't strike me as the actions of a leader.

Anyway, like I've said plenty of times, I'm a massive Gia fan, and I'm sure he'll pull it together for the finals.. I mean, he is definitely an elite player, although he's not often recognised as such. He'll probably nail the winning goal in the GF and all will be forgiven, and he's definitely good enough to make that happen.

[boydogs]

Everyone is having a crack at players who have had a crack and got it wrong. I'd much rather that that those who didn't get near it most of the night.


Such a good point.

I think Gia has some glaring deficiencies but at least he gets near it most games. He is the victim of having obvious deficiencies and subtle strengths, unfortunately most fans struggle enough with noticing the obvious stuff. I accept Gia for what he is.

It's funny, isn't it - 2 weeks ago, I started a thread asking why no-one criticised Gia for not getting involved, the focus was all on Minson for making errors but I questioned why it was Minson and not Gia winning and using the ball.

Yet after last night, Gia is in the gun again, despite being a major contributor, and being in the votes for the second week in a row

I would be more frustrated with Gia's error if he was playing his quality over quantity forward line role, but I still think we are entitled to expect Gia of all players to make the right decisions in the forward line

[alwaysadog]

Eade even pointed this out in his pressy.

As we got off track by mentioning the coaches comments let me say I'm getting just a little tired of Rocket taking the pressure off himself by bagging different players every week.

Perhaps he should have addressed the question as to why the Brains Trust he leads couldn't provide a strategy to get us through the St Kilda zone flood. It's not as if they had no idea of what to expect.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I think the coaching staff nailed it.

By not bombing it into a massively crowded forward 50 we denied them the ball and they couldn't rebound.


The tactics were great, it was the fundimental mistakes with goalkicking, Hall's free reversal, Gia's howler that cost us the game. If even a few of our chance were taken the game is put to bed well before 3/4 time.

[Doc26]

With the technical direction the game is heading, games will more often be decided on those few critical moments. We must learn to capitalise on our opportunities and that means improving our effectiveness and choices.

Although Gia was very good over the course of the night, in a game of stifled opportunities he did fail to land the finishing punch that he's there for. He's not alone though and St Kilda had them as well, Gilbert had 2 howlers taking it out from defence which unfortunately we also failed to capitalise on.

[Before I Die]

It seems that the posters who are giving Gia a hard time are questioning his decision to try to pass to Johnno, rather than his poor execution of the pass. Did Johnno call for it? If yes, then it is our Captain and more senior player who made the error, not Gia.

My personal view is that neither are to blame, it was simply a skill error, no worse than any of the other gettable goals missed during the game.

[SonofScray]

I think the coaching staff nailed it.

By not bombing it into a massively crowded forward 50 we denied them the ball and they couldn't rebound.


The tactics were great, it was the fundimental mistakes with goalkicking, Hall's free reversal, Gia's howler that cost us the game. If even a few of our chance were taken the game is put to bed well before 3/4 time.

I agree. Frustrating for fans who want screamers and goals but they took the right approach and for the most part it worked. To me, it seemed like the players got frustrated with it and lost their structures a bit. Very much like in a soccer game where a team defends well and loses its shape chasing the late goal only to get counter punched.

apologies for the mixed cliches.

[AndrewP6]

It seems that the posters who are giving Gia a hard time are questioning his decision to try to pass to Johnno, rather than his poor execution of the pass. Did Johnno call for it? If yes, then it is our Captain and more senior player who made the error, not Gia.

My personal view is that neither are to blame, it was simply a skill error, no worse than any of the other gettable goals missed during the game.

Surely the player with the ball has to make the decision that's best, not just listen to a call and pass it... players call all the time, if you've got the ball, the decision to pass it can be pivotal. As it was. IMO, the most important thing in all this is that there were many mistakes made, not just Gia's.

[Bulldog4life]

Surely the player with the ball has to make the decision that's best, not just listen to a call and pass it... players call all the time, if you've got the ball, the decision to pass it can be pivotal. As it was. IMO, the most important thing in all this is that there were many mistakes made, not just Gia's.

That's what David Parkin said on television recently.

[AndrewP6]

That's what David Parkin said on television recently.

Makes sense, and it's what I learnt from many coaches as a basketballer.

[Bulldog4life]

Makes sense, and it's what I learnt from many coaches as a basketballer.

Well as you said Andrew players are yelling out for the ball all the time and it is purely up to the player with the ball to choose the best option. Unfortunately by trying to do the team thing, which wasn't necessary, Gia stuffed up.

[Before I Die]

Surely the player with the ball has to make the decision that's best, not just listen to a call and pass it... players call all the time, if you've got the ball, the decision to pass it can be pivotal. As it was. IMO, the most important thing in all this is that there were many mistakes made, not just Gia's.

Err no. A player marks 30m out. The Captain is in the goal square. The Captain calls out to the player to take his time and make sure of it, or the Captain calls out Give It To Me.

As I said above, I am not blaming Johnno, what I am saying is that the criticism of Gia's decision to play on is wrong.

However, the criticism of Gia's skill error is justified, but no more than any of the other skill errors performed thoughout the game by our players.

[AndrewP6]

Err no. A player marks 30m out. The Captain is in the goal square. The Captain calls out to the player to take his time and make sure of it, or the Captain calls out Give It To Me.

As I said above, I am not blaming Johnno, what I am saying is that the criticism of Gia's decision to play on is wrong.

However, the criticism of Gia's skill error is justified, but no more than any of the other skill errors performed thoughout the game by our players.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Doesn't matter who calls for the ball, the player with the ball must make the smart decision. When you have the ball, you're essentially controlling the play. If that means ignoring your skipper, because at that point it isn't the best option, then so be it. Players call throughout a game, you can't just give it to them (or attempt to give it) simply because they call.

[LostDoggy]

I agree with you andrew. players call for the ball all the time. they are just creating an option. its up to the player with the ball to make the correct / most effective decision.

[MrMahatma]

Err no. A player marks 30m out. The Captain is in the goal square. The Captain calls out to the player to take his time and make sure of it, or the Captain calls out Give It To Me.

As I said above, I am not blaming Johnno, what I am saying is that the criticism of Gia's decision to play on is wrong.

However, the criticism of Gia's skill error is justified, but no more than any of the other skill errors performed thoughout the game by our players.
It's not like Gia is a first game player. Sure, Johno is captain, and while he's played more games than Gia, at this stage of his career it really is insignificant. A senior player is a senior player - and they have to make the right decision. Gia didn't.

However - we've had a problem for years where guys are afraid to go back and kick the goal - they prefer to play on. This won't be the last time it costs us a game.

[chef]

What a horrible thread:mad::(:confused:

[Topdog]

It's not like Gia is a first game player. Sure, Johno is captain, and while he's played more games than Gia, at this stage of his career it really is insignificant. A senior player is a senior player - and they have to make the right decision. Gia didn't.

However - we've had a problem for years where guys are afraid to go back and kick the goal - they prefer to play on. This won't be the last time it costs us a game.

Thats the most frustrating part. Gia is usually the guy who goes back and has a shot.

[LostDoggy]

I think we tend to remember things that happen late in the game, rather than all the missed goals, errors, free kicks etc that occur in the first 3 quarters. I was extremely pissed off after the game, but honestly can't say that I even thought of Gia not kicking for goal. I was remembering all the points kicked from set shots during the game- something that annoys the hell out of me, week after week.

Another thing that annoyed me Friday night - that stupid woman in the St Kilda gear playing the bagpipes on the ramp to Southern Cross Station. I've seen her there in Collingwood gear too. There are only so many times one can listen to 'When The Saints Go Marching In' on the bagpipes!!!! :mad:

[chef]

Thats the most frustrating part. Gia is usually the guy who goes back and has a shot.

And nails it.

[LostDoggy]

I think we tend to remember things that happen late in the game, rather than all the missed goals, errors, free kicks etc that occur in the first 3 quarters. I

First of all, totally agree about the woman in bagpipes. Having said that, she's a fixture, and we really need to keep things like that (even annoying ones) to remind us that the game belongs to the people, and not the suits.

Anyway...

To respond to your quote above, you are right in that we tend to fixate on events late in the game more than the earlier events, often too much so. However, having said that, in sporting contests of any duration (so, excluding the 100m sprint, for example), it is an established reality that the 'end' of games are far more important than the 'start'. I'm not saying the start is unimportant (it is!), merely that in close contests, decisions towards the end of games take on a very great significance in terms of the final result. In a close tennis match, for example, every point in the final tiebreaker is more important than, in general terms, the first point of the match. It almost doesn't matter how well you play the rest of the match if you can't close it out. Playing well earlier just gives you more opportunities to clinch it.

Basketball is a perfect example of a game where 'clutch' baskets to win games are valued more than any old normal score. This is because the pressure when the game is on the line is far, far greater than in a normal passage during the game, and performing or making the right decision under pressure, something very, very difficult to do, is what seperates the greats from the mortals, and what the likes of Larry Bird and MJ were paid the big bucks to do, and what some people are just very bad at (as a coach you figure who these guys are very quickly).

Now, the start and the rest of the match has a lot of influence on the end of games (an early spurt ending it early, or impacting on fatigue levels etc.), which is why they are so important, but in close matches, generally speaking, a player who performs under pressure at the pointy end is FAR, FAR more valuable than one who does exactly the same thing under less pressure at the start of the match.

[AndrewP6]

Another thing that annoyed me Friday night - that stupid woman in the St Kilda gear playing the bagpipes on the ramp to Southern Cross Station. I've seen her there in Collingwood gear too. There are only so many times one can listen to 'When The Saints Go Marching In' on the bagpipes!!!! :mad:

How about the guy playing guitar? He's a lot better than that woman...

Ah the characters you see at the footy...

[The Pie Man]

How about the guy playing guitar? He's a lot better than that woman...

Ah the characters you see at the footy...

Haha he was playing 'Oh when..' as well on Friday, though the last note was out of tune on the axe, it was pretty funny to hear twice in a row

It was weird to hear him play something other than Classical Gas, he ALWAYS plays that

[AndrewP6]

Haha he was playing 'Oh when..' as well on Friday, though the last note was out of tune on the axe, it was pretty funny to hear twice in a row

It was weird to hear him play something other than Classical Gas, he ALWAYS plays that

Sure does, one night I'm gonna stay for longer than a moment to listen. But I'm not staying for Bagpipe Lady... :)

[LostDoggy]

As we got off track by mentioning the coaches comments let me say I'm getting just a little tired of Rocket taking the pressure off himself by bagging different players every week.

Perhaps he should have addressed the question as to why the Brains Trust he leads couldn't provide a strategy to get us through the St Kilda zone flood. It's not as if they had no idea of what to expect.

Ithought they out coached St Kilda but at the 10 minute mark I said to my son that we were out on our feet. Why not put 18 back like them?

[Ozza]

Haha he was playing 'Oh when..' as well on Friday, though the last note was out of tune on the axe, it was pretty funny to hear twice in a row

It was weird to hear him play something other than Classical Gas, he ALWAYS plays that

He does the same outside Flemington on race days - I'm just glad he's learnt another song at last!

[BulldogBelle]

First of all, totally agree about the woman in bagpipes. Having said that, she's a fixture, and we really need to keep things like that (even annoying ones) to remind us that the game belongs to the people, and not the suits.

Anyway...

To respond to your quote above, you are right in that we tend to fixate on events late in the game more than the earlier events, often too much so. However, having said that, in sporting contests of any duration (so, excluding the 100m sprint, for example), it is an established reality that the 'end' of games are far more important than the 'start'. I'm not saying the start is unimportant (it is!), merely that in close contests, decisions towards the end of games take on a very great significance in terms of the final result. In a close tennis match, for example, every point in the final tiebreaker is more important than, in general terms, the first point of the match. It almost doesn't matter how well you play the rest of the match if you can't close it out. Playing well earlier just gives you more opportunities to clinch it.

Basketball is a perfect example of a game where 'clutch' baskets to win games are valued more than any old normal score. This is because the pressure when the game is on the line is far, far greater than in a normal passage during the game, and performing or making the right decision under pressure, something very, very difficult to do, is what seperates the greats from the mortals, and what the likes of Larry Bird and MJ were paid the big bucks to do, and what some people are just very bad at (as a coach you figure who these guys are very quickly).

Now, the start and the rest of the match has a lot of influence on the end of games (an early spurt ending it early, or impacting on fatigue levels etc.), which is why they are so important, but in close matches, generally speaking, a player who performs under pressure at the pointy end is FAR, FAR more valuable than one who does exactly the same thing under less pressure at the start of the match.



Agree with the above. We need to remember that its Round 6- lets be the turtle, not the hare

Yeah, Gia made a silly mistake...he has even come out publically and admitted it - see http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2010/news/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/93396/default.aspx

While dismissing the thought that the Dogs simply ran out of legs, Giansiracusa was livid with the amount of errors his team made in the fourth quarter.

"At critical times we made some dumb mistakes," he said.


Every player made several mistakes on Friday night....thats football and thats life....and we could go blue in the face talking about Crossy's crappy handball, Hahn's kick to an under pressure Williams, Williams running over the mark, Hall giving away a 50, Gilbee missing a shot, Gia missing a shot, Eagles lack of penetration, Johno and Aker not having an influence, Grant missing a shot x 2....

If we do something wrong once, its a learning experience, if we do the same thing wrong twice then its a true mistake....

We are still putting together every piece of the puzzle, skill errors, lack of intensity, switching off for a quarter (1st or last), turnovers are all areas of our game that need to be ironed out, and I'm sure they are being addressed

Personally, we are much closer to St Kilda this season than we were last season (taking Riewoldt and Boyd out of the equation). Yes, close enough isnt good enough, but, like our losses to Collingwood and Brisbane, I would rather learn from them now (Round 6!!!)rather than learn from a loss to them in September.

Oh yeah....If that woman was playing Sons of the West on the bagpipes I would be able to tolerate her when I pass her....tolerate is the key word....I tolerate a pimple on my face, doesnt mean I like it there or want it there.... ;-)

[LostDoggy]

I'm still amazed that they Play on at any cost. To me losing the 4 points is a big enough cost.
And Gia thinks he's captain material???

[BulldogBelle]

Who was it that started up that slogan "The need for Eade"?.

Its his fault!

Dumb coach. Did they give him an IQ test before they employed him?

We should have employed Blind Freddy, I think he's still available.

[Mantis]

Who was it that started up that slogan "The need for Eade"?.

Its his fault!

Dumb coach. Did they give him an IQ test before they employed him?

We should have employed Blind Freddy, I think he's still available.

JC,

If you are going to slag off the coach can you please give specific examples to what he did wrong on Friday night or has done wrong in the past?

If adding a little bit of substance to your posts proves too hard a task it's probably best that you keep your opinions to yourself.

[chef]

Mitch Hahn's effort of bringing his opponent the full length of the ground to the contest in the Saints forward line and then allowing him to stand by himself at the back of the pack and facing the goals wasn't to smart. Two critical errors within the space of two minutes costing two goals by Hahn, a senior player like Mitch needs to be smarter than that.

[Mofra]

I'm still amazed that they Play on at any cost. To me losing the 4 points is a big enough cost.
And Gia thinks he's captain material???
Name one AFL captain who has never made a mistake.

[Mantis]

Mitch Hahn's effort of bringing his opponent the full length of the ground to the contest in the Saints forward line and then allowing him to stand by himself at the back of the pack and facing the goals wasn't to smart. Two critical errors within the space of two minutes costing two goals by Hahn, a senior player like Mitch needs to be smarter than that.

Someone has been watching OWAT.

[LostDoggy]

How about the guy playing guitar? He's a lot better than that woman...

Ah the characters you see at the footy...

I think the bagpipe woman has just gotten to me after two very close (and frustrating) losses. Friday nights game and the 1 point loss to Collingwood last year. I have unfairly taken my anger out on her. After hearing the opposition theme song at the ground, then on the bagpipes, then on the guitar I had had enough!! What next, the recorder?? :D

[chef]

Someone has been watching OWAT.

Yeah, it's one footy show I enjoy.

[LostDoggy]

She is a Saints supporter too that girl. even though she has jerseys and flags for all the high member based teams. (carlton, collingwood, essendon)