Will we make the top 4?

[comrade]

Pretty simple...

After 6 rounds, we're currently sitting 8th with 3 wins and 3 losses; do you think we'll make top 4 at the end of the year?

After voting, feel free to give your reasons why.

[Go_Dogs]

I voted yes.

I know we have a tough draw and play a few of the more highly rated sides twice, but I think we can certainly turn our form around and position ourselves for a Top 4 spot.

[LostDoggy]

Yes.

Not because we will beat quality teams, but because we should account for teams from 5th down throughout the rest of the season.

[azabob]

I voted yes.
I think the only spot up for grabs is Sydney's spot.

The one thing going against us is Sydney, Brisbane and Fremantle are all with a chance of getting top 4, they also have the added advantage of a huge home ground advantage.

[lemmon]

I voted no, you can pretty much lock in Geelong, St Kilda and Collingwood while there has been rapid and unanticipated improvement from the likes of Sydney, Brisbane and Fremantle who have all had very good starts, we're coming from a long way back.

[comrade]

I voted no, you can pretty much lock in Geelong, St Kilda and Collingwood while there has been rapid and unanticipated improvement from the likes of Sydney, Brisbane and Fremantle who have all had very good starts, we're coming from a long way back.

Really? Don't forget, we're still only 2 games from equal top (and substantial percentage).

Of the challengers you mentioned:

Geelong are most definitely more gettable than previous years. The Carlton game proved that.

St Kilda will win more than they lose, but without Riewoldt, they are likely to drop more games than last year.

Collingwood are red hot - our Round 11 games could be season defining.

Brisbane has been found out already.

The youth at Fremantle are doing a good job but history shows that young players fade as the season goes on.

Sydney seem a genuine threat, but their bottom 6 aren't great. Getting 2 wins against them this year is crucial.

I like to think I'm a realist and I'm still seething after Friday night, but I honestly believe we'll hit Round 11 already in the top 4 (7 and 3). If we can get over the Pies and be at 8 and 3 half way through the season, top 4 is well in our sights.

By this time we'll have our running depth shored up with Picken, Ward and Reid ready to go.

[LostDoggy]

i voted no

I just think that by the time we click into gear and start functioning as we should it will be too late.

i'm predicting a 6th placed finish, unfortunately not good enough for a flag this year. There is a real lack of mental strength/concentration within this group, its been that way for a few years now and its not going to change within a few weeks.

[LostDoggy]

Voted No.
Wanted to vote yes, but cant.
Our only wins are against bottom 8 sides, and at the moment it doesnt look good.
We have to win against the Brisbanes and Sydneys if we are a chance.
Our next big match, 2 weeks time against the Swans, that'll show us where we are..

[comrade]

Our next big match, 2 weeks time against the Swans, that'll show us where we are..

If we win that, how do you position us moving forward?

[boydogs]

Yes from me. We were in a winning position against Brisbane and St Kilda and just lacked the fitness to hold them out. You would think the side is being setup to peak later in the year, and that the collapses we are seeing at the moment won't continue for much longer.

[chef]

Really? Don't forget, we're still only 2 games from equal top (and substantial percentage).

Of the challengers you mentioned:

Geelong are most definitely more gettable than previous years. The Carlton game proved that.

St Kilda will win more than they lose, but without Riewoldt, they are likely to drop more games than last year.

Collingwood are red hot - our Round 11 games could be season defining.

Brisbane has been found out already.

The youth at Fremantle are doing a good job but history shows that young players fade as the season goes on.

Sydney seem a genuine threat, but their bottom 6 aren't great. Getting 2 wins against them this year is crucial.

I like to think I'm a realist and I'm still seething after Friday night, but I honestly believe we'll hit Round 11 already in the top 4 (7 and 3). If we can get over the Pies and be at 8 and 3 half way through the season, top 4 is well in our sights.
By this time we'll have our running depth shored up with Picken, Ward and Reid ready to go.

I voted yes and comrades post sums up my feelings perfectly(especially the bolded bit).

[LostDoggy]

If we win that, how do you position us moving forward?

3rd/4th at best i reckon.
Last year we had 7 losses. We're already 3 down, 4 to go in comparison to last year.
But surely if we beat the Swans, it will give us a step in the right direction.

[chef]

3rd/4th at best i reckon.
Last year we had 7 losses. We're already 3 down, 4 to go in comparison to last year.
But surely if we beat the Swans, it will give us a step in the right direction.

Same as last year after 6 rounds.

[Rocco Jones]

Geelong, Collingwood and Sydney are my three lock ins at the moment (as much as of a contradiction as that is). :)

The contenders for the other spot IMO are the Saints, Freo, Lions and us. I think the other contenders will drop enough games if they are good enough. Really unsure at the moment. Assuming we can win next week, the Swans game will be a massive indicator.

[The Pie Man]

Sydney seem a genuine threat, but their bottom 6 aren't great. Getting 2 wins against them this year is crucial.
.

Agreed - and the game in Canberra in a fortnight is a real worry...I know we've been good in Canberra, but Sydney look very different.

If we win that and we are 7-3 by the Collingwood game, we should make top 4 anyway.

I voted no

[Stefcep]

I think we need to deal with the possibility that other clubs will look at the last match and see an opportunity to stifle or free-scoring style of play. We need a strategy to counter it if we are going to be a genuine top 4 side.

[The Pie Man]

Same as last year after 6 rounds.

How easy I forget, we were too. Round 7 Adelaide game at AAMI was huge I recall, and we got the W.

Really struggled vs Melbourne the next week, should've beaten Geelong after that, then went on an impressive 5 game winning streak.

[LostDoggy]

Same as last year after 6 rounds.

As gogriff has pointed out before, we have gotten ourselves in a winning position this year against the Lions and Saints, and sort of the Pies in the 3rd term but faded.
Our ability to win a match when it is in the balance is not crash hot, and doesnt look like we're going to win many close games this season.
Though i would LOVE to be proven wrong! ;)

[The Coon Dog]

I think we need to deal with the possibility that other clubs will look at the last match and see an opportunity to stifle or free-scoring style of play. We need a strategy to counter it if we are going to be a genuine top 4 side.

Will those other side be as mentally disciplined as St.Kilda though?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don't think anyone can ber certain either way right now. We've been pretty average so far this year, but if we had of won on Friday Night then our views would be entirely different. Still - can't change what has happened, and we aren't wehre we want or should be at this stage.

The big difference between 08/09 and 2010 is the even competition. Cats, Saints, Pies, Dogs, Swans, Freo and possibly Lions are all in positions to make the top four. Carlton even beat Geelong last weekend, with Port overcoming Saints. Anything can happen - and so I don't think we're in as good of a position as a lot think we are. Might be similiarities between last year and this year, but there were only four stand out sides for the majority of the season. 2010 is a different ball game.

The next month is pivotal. We simply have to win them all. Lose 1-2 and I think we'll really struggle. I'm confident we can win them all, and we should - but things need to change.

[Rocco Jones]

I think we need to deal with the possibility that other clubs will look at the last match and see an opportunity to stifle or free-scoring style of play. We need a strategy to counter it if we are going to be a genuine top 4 side.


Will those other side be as mentally disciplined as St.Kilda though?

Nor as well drilled in the strategy. The Saints do it every week (granted Friday was an extreme), it's what they live and breathe as a footy club. If another team tried to do it, it would be a gimmick to cater for us.

[Stefcep]

Will those other side be as mentally disciplined as St.Kilda though?

I think Geelong and Sydney could be.

IMO the Brains Trust at the club need need to develop a plan B, just in case.

[comrade]

The big difference between 08/09 and 2010 is the even competition.

It's a good point, and probably the reason why it seems a little more Chicken Little on the forums this year.

[Rocco Jones]

I think Geelong and Sydney could be.

IMO the Brains Trust at the club need need to develop a plan B, just in case.

Why would Geelong cater for us? The Saints went the ultra defensive style because they thought they couldn't beat us otherwise. The Cats have been dominant for over 3 years with their own style of footy and other than a loss in a game that hardly mattered to them, have had our measure.

[Sedat]

I think we need to deal with the possibility that other clubs will look at the last match and see an opportunity to stifle or free-scoring style of play. We need a strategy to counter it if we are going to be a genuine top 4 side.
St Kilda had awful trouble scoring against us for 115 of 120 minutes, and they are the best team in the business at the uber-flood. Won't bother me in the slightest if other teams try this tactic against us.

I think we are still very capable of making top 4 but as other have alluded to, we simply have to win the next 4 on the trot to generate the necessary momentum to get us on the way there.

[LostDoggy]

You have to believe we can turn it around, but not on our performances so far. We've beaten no-one really. We're working hard but not getting consistency across 4 quarters. Skill errors are killing us. Need to get team balance right. Need to stop last quarter fade outs. Need a lot of luck with injuries. This loss is a devastating one for where we could end up by year's end.

[Rocco Jones]

Some interesting games for the top 4 contenders next week.

Sydney (5-1) have the ultimate battle up against the Cats (4-2) at Kardinia Park.

Freo (5-1) play the Lions (4-2) at the GABBA.

Not sure if the actual viewing will be great but the contrast in styles in Blues vs Saints might be interesting.

With 2 guaranteed losses for the top 6 clubs, we can start bridging the gap quickly with a win against the Dees.

[hujsh]

In a way we're in a far better position than last year.

This time last year we'd lost 3 in a row. 2 of those were terrible losses to teams that would have been penciled in as a win meaning we had to make up for them by beating Geelong and Collingwood later in the year. The other was a demoralizing thrashing by a contender showing us how far away we were from the top and taking a chunk out of our percentage. Add to that that Geelong and St.Kilda were looking all but unbeatable which took the top two spots out of the equation.

This year Geelong look as if they could drop a few and St. Kilda don't have St. Nick for a while yet. Collingwood have done well but don't look to be a class above the 09 version as of yet and Sydney, impressive as they have been, have beaten the bottom 3, North and Brisbane which does't book them into the top 4 in my eyes yet. Their next two games should tell us a lot about how the ladder will shape up this year.

This year we have a power forward in Hall which is nice and Tom Williams hasn't fell over in the shower or twisted his ankle walking out of the stadium which bodes well for the two structural deficiencies that the Western Bulldog fan base has lamented for some time now. With Minson and Boyd to come back we'll hopefully become stronger in the centre especially in situations like late in the game on Friday night.


There remains unanswered questions about the group's mentality in the heat of a final but that didn't stop us making the top 4 last year. The ageing of players like Aker, Johno and Eagle could prove to be a worry but if this year their decline is more pronounced then we just have to hope the improvement of players like Griffen, Everitt, Gia (in the centre) and Addison can compensate for that loss. If not then maybe guys like Reid, Wood, Hooper(stretching a bit maybe) can replace them.

Still I'd take this year's group/position over last years and I don't believe the competition in general is any stronger this year so I voted yes we will make the top 4. I can't see why we could improve last year from point and not be able to replicate it this year.

[comrade]

This loss is a devastating one for where we could end up by year's end.

It was undoubtedly disappointing, but I don't think it will be devastating in regards to our final ladder position. We still have 5 losses to play with for the rest of the season and we've had a tough draw so there should be some respite.

It's still early and our destiny is in our own hands.

[LostDoggy]

Some interesting games for the top 4 contenders next week.

Sydney (5-1) have the ultimate battle up against the Cats (4-2) at Kardinia Park.

Freo (5-1) play the Lions (4-2) at the GABBA.

Not sure if the actual viewing will be great but the contrast in styles in Blues vs Saints might be interesting.

With 2 guaranteed losses for the top 6 clubs, we can start bridging the gap quickly with a win against the Dees.

Nice pick up, with the Blues big loss today to the Pies, we still manage to be in the top 8 at the end of round 6 too..

[LostDoggy]

It was undoubtedly disappointing, but I don't think it will be devastating in regards to our final ladder position. We still have 5 losses to play with for the rest of the season and we've had a tough draw so there should be some respite.

It's still early and our destiny is in our own hands.

Hope you're right.

[comrade]

Hope you're right.

Me too.

[AndrewP6]

I voted no based on our overall form thus far. We're gonna need to pick up our performance to get wins we need.

[comrade]

We're gonna need to pick up our performance to get wins we need.

Why don't you think we can?

[The Adelaide Connection]

Re: Sydney
I think they will certainly be a bolter into the eight this year, but so far they have only faced Adelaide and North Melbourne away from home. I think at the SCG they have one of the best home ground advantages (due to the dimensions of the field).

Beating the Lions and narrowly losing to the Saints at home probably underlines their improvement, but I think it is WAY too early to be talking about them as a top four side when they still have away games against Geelong, Dogs (Canberra), Port, Carlton, Freo and the Lions. They also play Geelong and Collingwood at ANZ instead of the SCG (which you would have to see as a win for the visitors).

[FrediKanoute]

No. I don't think we are playing well enough at the momoent and we would need to have a major change in form/attitude in order to make the top 4. From what I have seen the Saints are shoe-ins for a top 4 spot. I think Collingwood will hold their spot and same with Freo. I expect Geelong to sneak in and displace Sydney, so it means that it makes it hard to see who we will displace. Freo possibly?

One things for certain though having lost 3 in 6 we can only really lose anoth 2-3 game and expect to make the top 4. Maybe 4 at the most.

[AndrewP6]

Why don't you think we can?

I voted based on current form. I think with the improvement of Freo, Melbourne, and the upset wins that have already happened, things are very even. I haven't seen much this year to show that we're up there with the Cats, Saints and Pies. We dropped matches we should've won, and haven't looked that great all that often.

That said. I hope that we get Picken, Ward, Boyd back and firing soon... I hope Murph is able to arrest his form slump soon... I hope Bazza and the rest of the forwards start to work in synch soon (Eade has said it'll take time)...I hope Roughy, Everitt and Grant are able to get more game time and show their improvement...

Maybe I just need a dose of Monty Python's "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life".... :)

[comrade]

Most who have voted no have said that our form needs to improve if we're going to make top 4. By voting in the negative, you obviously don't think a change in form can occur. I'm interested to know why?

[Greystache]

I voted no.

In comparison to the other mature teams we've played this year our fitness seems well below the mark. We've been badly beaten in 4th quarters by Collingwood, Brisbane, St Kilda, and Eade even conceded we were out on our feet at 3/4 time against an 0-6 Adelaide. I feel unless we can increase our running capabilities, whether that be by selecting more runners and being a shorter team again, or putting the players through a heavier training phase over the coming weeks (which runs the risk of dropping more games) I can't see us being able to run out 4 quarters well enough to beat enough top 8 sides.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Re: St. Kilda

I remember a few years ago a game where a pretty hopeless Richmond outfit came up against the Crows (who I think were unbeaten on top) and they played an ultra flood, 17 men in defence type of gamestyle that the Saints used on us. Friday nights game actually felt like that to me, like a bottom of the table club playing a top of the table club...conceding that the other team are better but hoping to get enough scraps to sneak an against the odds win. Did anyone else feel like that?

So why did a team sitting at 4-1 and with a team who are premiership favourites play like this against a team who, despite the hype and obvious talent, haven't been playing all that well? They should have come out with the intentions of going for the jugula and preying on our average form of late.

If I were a Saints supporter alarm bells would be ringing. Do they still think they are the best side in the comp? Has losing NR been a huge psychological blow as well as a huge personnel blow?

Call me crazy but I think they have more problems than we do.

[Rocco Jones]

In comparison to the other mature teams we've played this year our fitness seems well below the mark.

Is it a lack of fitness or a lack of runners in the 22? We have obviously been compromised with a few injuries to midifelders/runners but we definitely look top heavy atm.

[The Pie Man]

I have us on 14 wins - can see us losing twice to Sydney, Collingwood again, Geelong & West Coast at Subi is always tough regardless of how they're travelling

Depending on %, that still might be good enough for 4th - more wins and we should get 4th.

Believe it or not, I reckon Freo can pinch 4th. Even with beating us twice, I don't see Sydney finishing top 4

The football world and everyones beliefs/perceptions can do 180's in 7 days.

[comrade]

The football world and everyones beliefs/perceptions can do 180's in 7 days.

Great call. Funnily enough, if we had have taken just ONE of our chances in the last quarter, we'd all be chuffed and able to read the papers over the weekend.

[LostDoggy]

I said Yes.

I think we can get back to our best and become a threat once again in the second half of this season..

If we get the likes of Picken, Reid, Ward (and Boyd obv.) back into the side providing that extra hardness at the ball our contested football will be a lot better for it. Need to improve our delivery into the forward line. Our midfield is top 3 in the competition, but we haven't seen it yet and our forward line structure can be a lot more dangerous than it is right now.

[The Pie Man]

Great call. Funnily enough, if we had have taken just ONE of our chances in the last quarter, we'd all be chuffed and able to read the papers over the weekend.

Absolutely - heck, at 3 qtr time against Geelong round 20 last year I was convinced we'd blown top 4!

So you could say 30 minutes is a long time in football - but to go one further, 8 minutes was long enough on Friday.

[LostDoggy]

I think we still will, we were in the same position as this last year.

[chef]

Is it a lack of fitness or a lack of runners in the 22? We have obviously been compromised with a few injuries to midifelders/runners but we definitely look top heavy atm.

Is it something to do with our training as we had the same problem at this time last year and it wasn't until round 7 that we started to run out games(have a look at our 3 game losing streak from rounds 3-6, we looked stuffed in the last quarters).

[Go_Dogs]

Is it something to do with our training as we had the same problem at this time last year and it wasn't until round 7 that we started to run out games(have a look at our 3 game losing streak from rounds 3-6, we looked stuffed in the last quarters).

It's probably by design so we can 'peak' later in the year. As you suggest, perhaps we have been loading the bodies up heavily over the past few weeks?

We've been a very fit side over the past seasons, so there is no reason to think it'll be any different this year. Hopefully we can start to see some improvements over the next couple of weeks.

[Mantis]

I think we still will, we were in the same position as this last year.

That may be the case, but many teams have improved. Last year there was a clear gap between the top 4, the next best 4 and the also rans. Besides a couple of exceptions (Richmond, WC & Adelaide) the gap has certainly closed meaning at present there isn't as many 'easy' games.

I guess a lot can change over the course of the season, but at present it's a much harder task to pencil in games as certain wins than previously.... But I guess that has much to do with our own indifferent form as it has to do with other teams improvement.

[Mofra]

Given Boyd (best Midfielder on performances this year & last) Picken (best tagger) & Ward (hard inside mid) are due back and Johnno still looks like he is regaining touch we still have a fair bit of improvement in the side.

Murphy's form slump can't last forever and Griffen looks like he is lifting his output. I think we will make top 4 but we wouldn;t want to drop the game this week or any other gettables.

[Murphy'sLore]

I voted no.

We just don't look consistent enough and there aren't too many "easy" games to pick up this year. Maybe we can sneak it but it's going to be a struggle. Having said that I'm very happy to be persuaded otherwise.

[Bulldog4life]

The heart says yes but my head voted no. According to form this year we have only beaten the super easy beats. Combined after 6 rounds those teams we beaten have only won 1 game in total! We didn't stand up in the other matches when it counted...in that all important 4th quarter.
This year the overall competition has really improved and teams seem so fast and we are that one year older. This can be decisive when you are on the wrong side of 30.
Also our forward line hasn't really clicked yet and time is running out if we don't want to drop anymore games for a while.
Our other worry is winning the close games against quality oppositions in the last couple of years. I can't see where we can improve this.
I think we are going to have trouble this Friday against Melbourne's speedy type of game and then we travel to Canberra to play Sydney.
If we win both of those two games then I would reassess our chances again perhaps more optimistically.
But in reality I think we will make the 8 somewhere between 5th & 8.

[Sedat]

That may be the case, but many teams have improved. Last year there was a clear gap between the top 4, the next best 4 and the also rans. Besides a couple of exceptions (Richmond, WC & Adelaide) the gap has certainly closed meaning at present there isn't as many 'easy' games.

I guess a lot can change over the course of the season, but at present it's a much harder task to pencil in games as certain wins than previously.... But I guess that has much to do with our own indifferent form as it has to do with other teams improvement.
The way 2009 panned out, we had several 'tough' games against fellow top 4 aspirants (we played the Pies, Saints and Cats all twice) but we also had more 'gimmee' games against the strugglers. This year have a much bigger proportion of games against mid-range contenders and finals aspirants, so our potential path to a top 4 finish is a lot more unpredictable this season. If we play to our ability and bring the necessary defensive intensity to the table, we will win a lot more games than we lose for the remainder of the season, but if we are a fraction off our game we will struggle to win enough games to make top 4.

[Go_Dogs]

if we are a fraction off our game we will struggle to win enough games to make top 4.

There was a great article in this mornings Advertiser (strange, I know) by Mark Ricciuto essentially stating that it's very much in the mind these days, and if a team is not switched on, they are easily beaten.

It's not online, but here are a few pieces that I thought were worth a read:

"Fitness does not have a major say in outcomes because every club has professional fitness coaches and access to the best and latest technology.

Factors that can have a detrimental influence on mindset and confidence are the bounce of the ball, umpiring decisions, injuries, the crowd, weather, form and skill errors - including goal kicking. How players cope with these factors is crucial to the outcomes. Some players will be affected by it, others won't. Often it will come down to how many leaders you have in your team as opposed to how many followers there are.

Leaders are generally stronger in the mind and can rise to the occasion in any situation. Followers can fall by the wayside."

[Charlie the Wonder Dog]

for me its a resounding YES.

I've posted the 'why' in another thread, but essentially I see us as having a lot of improvement in us. I am confident our brains trust have a specific plan to set us up to peak at the right end of the season.

I remember the Bulldogs side that was red hot in the early middle of last season, we have a number of very important players down on form currently, that won't continue indefinitely.

[chef]

The heart says yes but my head voted no. According to form this year we have only beaten the super easy beats. Combined after 6 rounds those teams we beaten have only won 1 game in total! We didn't stand up in the other matches when it counted...in that all important 4th quarter.
This year the overall competition has really improved and teams seem so fast and we are that one year older. This can be decisive when you are on the wrong side of 30.
Also our forward line hasn't really clicked yet and time is running out if we don't want to drop anymore games for a while.
Our other worry is winning the close games against quality oppositions in the last couple of years. I can't see where we can improve this.
I think we are going to have trouble this Friday against Melbourne's speedy type of game and then we travel to Canberra to play Sydney.
If we win both of those two games then I would reassess our chances again perhaps more optimistically.
But in reality I think we will make the 8 somewhere between 5th & 8.

I feel we will account for the Demons quite easily. We will come out breathing fire.

[Bulldog4life]

I feel we will account for the Demons quite easily. We will come out breathing fire.

Here's hoping you are right and I am wrong. Normally I am a very optimistic supporter but just at the moment for various reasons that I have previously mentioned I have my doubts.

[LostDoggy]

There How players cope with these factors is crucial to the outcomes. Some players will be affected by it, others won't. Often it will come down to how many leaders you have in your team as opposed to how many followers there are.

Leaders are generally stronger in the mind and can rise to the occasion in any situation. Followers can fall by the wayside."

I've said pretty much the same thing in a different thread (the Gia one) about pressure. For some reason we don't look like having a lot of players who will simply drag the team across the line the way Johnno wants to (and is why he is still the clear captain) but can't really physically do anymore.

A team like Brisbane in the early noughties (and Geelong to a certain extent) were chock-a-block of players like this on every line, and Voss himself would bash and crash three packs just to change the momentum of a game. We are full of uber-skilled players who are hardened in the body, but we don't have a player that is willing to do the crazy, foolhardy competitive-nut stuff that will stamp our authority on the game.. we tend to win by silk (Lake plucking defensive marks, Cooney running away from a pack, Gilbee spotting up a teammate 60m away, Griff picking up the ball one-handed), and silent assassins are all very well and good, but sometimes we just need a hand grenade.

The only one last Friday trying to crash through packs at pace was Harbrow. Even Coons, on that last ball up after the Saints had scored their last goal, didn't want to pick the ball up and rather timidly toe-poked it forward five metres and ran after it. And we've always heard that Griff shies away from the leadership positions, which is a real shame.

We need statement players, making statement plays when the moment calls for it, where we play like the favourites we're supposed to be, rather than be full of front-runners too scared to take the responsibility of carrying the mantle of the best team in the comp.

Callan Ward, come on down. (When fit, of course, and maybe not this year, but soon. If he's not a clear candidate for the captaincy over the next 5 years, I'm a lemon-fish.)

[DOG GOD]

I've said pretty much the same thing in a different thread (the Gia one) about pressure. For some reason we don't look like having a lot of players who will simply drag the team across the line the way Johnno wants to (and is why he is still the clear captain) but can't really physically do anymore.

A team like Brisbane in the early noughties (and Geelong to a certain extent) were chock-a-block of players like this on every line, and Voss himself would bash and crash three packs just to change the momentum of a game. We are full of uber-skilled players who are hardened in the body, but we don't have a player that is willing to do the crazy, foolhardy competitive-nut stuff that will stamp our authority on the game.. we tend to win by silk (Lake plucking defensive marks, Cooney running away from a pack, Gilbee spotting up a teammate 60m away, Griff picking up the ball one-handed), and silent assassins are all very well and good, but sometimes we just need a hand grenade.

The only one last Friday trying to crash through packs at pace was Harbrow. Even Coons, on that last ball up after the Saints had scored their last goal, didn't want to pick the ball up and rather timidly toe-poked it forward five metres and ran after it. And we've always heard that Griff shies away from the leadership positions, which is a real shame.

We need statement players, making statement plays when the moment calls for it, where we play like the favourites we're supposed to be, rather than be full of front-runners too scared to take the responsibility of carrying the mantle of the best team in the comp.

Callan Ward, come on down. (When fit, of course, and maybe not this year, but soon. If he's not a clear candidate for the captaincy over the next 5 years, I'm a lemon-fish.)

Fantastic post Lantern, Agree 100%

For me, Hahn would be the IDEAL hand grenade in our team bar Bazza. As he goes in and out of games he sometimes needs to just "bust a nut" and crash some packs whether fwd or midfield.

[Rocco Jones]

How things have changed from about 5 minutes to go against the Dees to 9 nights later.

We are already 4th, that was a bit quicker than I expected. So what about our rivals.

I see Collingwood and Geelong as locks to finish in the top 3.

Freo are 6-2 and I don't think they were that bad on Friday, running out of steam after a 6 day break traveling across our great land. They should be right up there if they can keep winning at home.

The Swans have lost 3 games against quality opposition and are really struggling with injuries to key players. Huge game against Freo, I think they are in the next bracket of sides now.

Saints have lost 3 of their last 4 games. Their next 3 games are against sides in the bottom four. I think they might struggle against West Coast at Subi though. Lucky to finish top 6 and could even miss out on the 8.

The Lions have been hit massively with injury. Drummond is an enormous out for the season and Brennan's versatility will be really missed. Fev and Brown are obviously hampered. Another one which will struggle to hold onto a spot in the top 6/8.

Carlton are emerging as a top 4 contender. They have worried us for awhile and have been in impressive form over the last 5 weeks. Wins away and against both grand finalists, the only lose being to the red hot Pies.

Two massive games next week with Pies v Cats and Swans v Freo.

My top 8 at end of H & A season FWIW (without looking at the fixture and bound to change by Friday night)

Collingwood
Geelong
Bulldogs
Fremantle
Carlton
Sydney
Brisbane

I found the top 4 easier than 5-8.

[boydogs]

My top 8 at end of H & A season FWIW (without looking at the fixture and bound to change by Friday night)

Collingwood
Geelong
Bulldogs
Fremantle
Carlton
Sydney
Brisbane

I found the top 4 easier than 5-8.

You're missing someone, only 7 teams listed - Saints maybe

Here's mine -

Bulldogs
Geelong
Collingwood
St Kilda

Carlton
Sydney
Brisbane
Port Adelaide
---
Fremantle
Essendon
North Melbourne
Melbourne

Adelaide
West Coast
Hawthorn
Richmond

I can't see Freo and Melbourne up there at the end of the year, next season maybe
I think the Lake and Griffen efforts against Melbourne were a turning point for us, and that we won't look back now.

Saints will still win enough, they can be exposed by the attacking teams but are still a quality side.
Adelaide, Hawthorn and West Coast big disappointments this year IMO

[Rocco Jones]

Haha, woops!

Saints to come 6th.

[Popcorn Chicken]

I'd be very surprised we didnt finish top 3 acually. I feel the Cats Pies and the Doggies will finish top 3 with a fair gap between 3 and 4

[LostDoggy]

Yes for me. Whilst i haven't seen the boys for a month, I think we can only improve. If we are snatching wins playing ordinary football, then surely it's all going to click soon. Having said that, it's a pretty even season, and there are a few in the mix. Alot depends on injuries for all sides - is St. Kilda "gawn" without St. Nick? Swans have quite a few out as well.

[LostDoggy]

Hawthorn and St. Kilda have been overrated for a while now (still can't believe the Hawks won a Premiership, but knew that they wouldn't last -- talent is fleeting, character is what keeps dynasties going, and they're either rotten or soft from coach down to their superstars bar the few obvious exceptions ie Rioli, Hodge, Mitchell, and the like).

Saints will slide and keep sliding -- be lucky to finish in the 8, Hawthorn will finish the year better than they've started it but will still probably finish 12th.

I'm a little bit wary of Carlton, but I think they are the Dogs of the last few years -- exciting and dynamic in H&A, but with their smalls forward structure (Setanta notwithstanding), will come unstuck in pressure cooker finals as we have.

[w3design]

I think so, we haven't been in form the early rounds. Our fourth quarters are a worry, the Lions and Saints games should've been wins.