Dogs need to adjust to Barry Hall

[LostDoggy]

Matthew Lloyd mentioned after the game last night, that he had spoken to some of his Bulldog contacts during the week & they all seemed confused with the forward line set up.

The forward definitely needs to be tinkered with.


Jay Clark From: Sunday Herald Sun May 09, 2010

WESTERN Bulldogs hope to rediscover the forward-line synergy that made them such a huge threat in the pre-season when Barry Hall takes on his old side, Sydney, on Saturday.

The former Swans spearhead is out of form, having kicked one goal in his past two outings, leading into the blockbuster first meeting against the club from which he departed last year.

Teammate Daniel Cross was adamant Hall's recently limited goal output was not his fault, admitting the NAB Cup champions had become "confused" about their forward set-up.

Cross said the Dogs were the best attacking side in the AFL last season, but were struggling to find the right balance between kicking to Hall and the other mid-sized forward options this year.

"Certainly at times we are confused as to when to go long (to Hall) and when to hit the lead-up player," Cross said on SEN.

"Over the last few years, we've done that extremely well, not having the stay-at-home big forward there.

"But we are training as hard as we ever have on that area of our game to get those decisions right and eventually it will click.

"It certainly happened well during the NAB Cup, but we just haven't got it right at the moment."

If anything, Cross said the team was guilty of kicking to Hall too much.

"We are maybe falling into the trap as a last resort to kick it to 'Hally' and let him do the rest," he said.

"But that's not the way we want to play. It's just a matter of getting the balance right."

Hall was on fire, kicking 17 goals in three games in the NAB Cup, but the 33-year-old was well-beaten in the one-on-one contest in the wet against Melbourne's Matthew Warnock on Friday night.

Hall was held goal-less and took one mark.

A much-improved Sydney has thrived with Daniel Bradshaw in Hall's place, having lost only one of its first six games.

The first bout since Hall's falling out with the Swans over his continued on-field indiscipline will provide a considerable test of the goalkicker's focus coming off a lean patch.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/dogs-need-to-adjust-to-barry-hall/story-e6frf9jf-1225864001045

[AndrewP6]

Eade said as much at the beginning of the season. Not kicking to him 1 on 3 might be a good starting point. :)

[Go_Dogs]

Eade said as much at the beginning of the season. Not kicking to him 1 on 3 might be a good starting point. :)

Exactly.

IMO it's just up to the player whose carrying or kicking the ball forward. If Hall is swamped, look for a lead up option. If Hall is one on one, put it out in front to his advantage so he can run onto it.

It's a tough one, because obviously Hall likes space, and the less players around mean the less likely he is to be double-teamed. At the same time, there needs to be alternative options to spot up if Hall is not the best option or in a good position.

Hall is not a pack marking player, and unfortunately that he took a couple of nice pack marks in the NAB Cup seems to have instilled in our players that they can kick it long on top of his head, and he'll pluck them, but really he's about a 1/20 chance of pulling them down, especially when he's out-numbered.

[LostDoggy]

I hope that's the reason for the scoring drought. If so, then it can be worked out through trial and error and practice. If not, then it might indicate that the oppportunity has passed.

[ledge]

Scoring drought the last 2 games can be put down to weather for one and St Kilda the other.

[LostDoggy]

Look, people are getting wrapped around the handles too much with this. Wait till at least round 10 - 13 to see what is going on with any team.
The last few games the forward line has been choked and the next week was a washout, so neither was good for a leading/marking forward. Before that Hall hasn't gone too bad. Stop looking just at the stats and look at the game as a whole.
At round 6 we have already seen the Lions go up then back down, Geelong finding their feet and St kilda without Nick. So who knows what the next 6 rounds are going to produce????
I'm sure your stats will change when Hall gets some free flowing indoor games under his belt??

[Ghost Dog]

I agree with the Midget
Early days yet. Stats don't often tell the full story.
Hall will be used as a decoy, ( Eade has said that ) and has been doing some good defensive work,
assists. After Nab it's easy to expect too much of him.
If he can keep his temper, he will serve the club well as he is 100% committed.
I noticed he does play for the free alot. He will get used to the structures soon enough. If not, he will still draw some quality defenders and provide an option.

[AndrewP6]

I agree with the Midget
Early days yet. Stats don't often tell the full story.
Hall will be used as a decoy, ( Eade has said that ) and has been doing some good defensive work,
assists. After Nab it's easy to expect too much of him.
If he can keep his temper, he will serve the club well as he is 100% committed.
I noticed he does play for the free alot. He will get used to the structures soon enough. If not, he will still draw some quality defenders and provide an option.

I think he does OK, considering the treatment he gets. Rarely goes down like a lead balloon, unlike someone else we all know... ;)

Agree 100% with your other comments

[Cyberdoggie]

What i'd like to know is where is our players that enable the other team to have 3 guys go to Barry Hall?

I'm no genius but i believe that means 2 of ours guys don't have opposition. So there should be someone to kick to.

[LostDoggy]

We can't be saying early days anymore, cos any (stupid) losses can mean we don't make the top 4

[Mantis]

We can't be saying early days anymore, cos any (stupid) losses can mean we don't make the top 4

Is there a difference between a smart loss and a stupid one?

[LostDoggy]

What i'd like to know is where is our players that enable the other team to have 3 guys go to Barry Hall?

I'm no genius but i believe that means 2 of ours guys don't have opposition. So there should be someone to kick to.

Teams play a couple of loose men down the back to double team some players. You're right in saying that we would have a free player(s), but these are usually down in OUR backline (which is why we kick it backwards). Unless we want to roll the dice and play man-on-man (7 man forward line), Hall will continue to be double teamed while our other forwards are manned up. Intelligent leading and creating/leaving of space + crumbing becomes all-important.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Teams play a couple of loose men down the back to double team some players. You're right in saying that we would have a free player(s), but these are usually down in OUR backline (which is why we kick it backwards). Unless we want to roll the dice and play man-on-man (7 man forward line), Hall will continue to be double teamed while our other forwards are manned up. Intelligent leading and creating/leaving of space + crumbing becomes all-important.

With St. Kilda, especially, if you man up their loose player they will simply throw another one back, and another, and another. Lyon would play with a 2 man forward line in an instant.

[LostDoggy]

With St. Kilda, especially, if you man up their loose player they will simply throw another one back, and another, and another. Lyon would play with a 2 man forward line in an instant.

No, exactly. I was balancing my comments, thinking of how other teams that double team us other than the Saints, but Lyon would definitely do anything to ensure a loose man at the back.

0-man forward line, even. (thus any game vs. the Saints where there are regularly empty halves of the ground).

I'm a little bit tired of people spouting the 'if Hall is double-teamed someone must be free' myth and hope that we may be able to educate the masses somewhat.

[bornadog]

Cooney on the show "Before The Game" said he seems to end up kicking to Hall, because he demands the ball and is usually in the right position, so its hard not to kick to him.

We need the small forward hovering around his knees for the crumbs, something we haven't seen so far.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

With St. Kilda, especially, if you man up their loose player they will simply throw another one back, and another, and another. Lyon would play with a 2 man forward line in an instant.

It's a good point.

How do you counter the game plan then? Can we afford to play into their hands? How do/will Geelong play them?

Obviously Ethiad suits their style of play. The MCG can be difficult for them, though.

[LostDoggy]

Get in front on the scoreboard and chip it around for 3 and a half quaters! :D

[Dazza]

Cooney on the show "Before The Game" said he seems to end up kicking to Hall, because he demands the ball and is usually in the right position, so its hard not to kick to him.

We need the small forward hovering around his knees for the crumbs, something we haven't seen so far.


Cooney is probably the best at getting the ball to Hall in the team. He kicks it to the right spots before Hall has even started his lead alot of times and it usually ends up with Hall taking a mark 30-40 metres out directly in front.

When it's done fast it generally works. If someone stops and props then bombs it on the head of Hall he has very little chance of taking the mark.

[LostDoggy]

Is there a difference between a smart loss and a stupid one?
yes. In that a stupid loss to which I'm referring to is one where we should win comfortably, but don't.

And I never said their is a smart loss. I said loss and stupid loss.