Teams Round 8 v Swans [Archive] - Whitten Oval Online Forum

bornadog

13-05-2010, 05:01 PM

Western Bulldogs

B: Jarrod Harbrow, Brian Lake, Dale Dale Morris
HB: Ryan Hargrave, Tom Williams, Lindsay Gilbee
C: Ryan Griffen, Matthew Boyd, Daniel Cross
HF: Robert Murphy, Mitch Hahn, Shaun Higgins
F: Jarrad Grant, Barry Hall, Josh Hill
R: Ben Hudson, Adam Cooney, Daniel Giansiracusa
I/C: Dylan Addison, Jason Akermanis, Will Minson, Brennan Stack
EMG: Nathan Eagleton, Brodie Moles, Easton Wood

In: Minson
Out: Andrejs Everitt (ankle)

Sydney Swans

B: Rhyce Shaw, Ted Richards, Tadhg Kennelly
HB: Martin Mattner, Heath Grundy, Nick Malceski
C: Jarrad McVeigh, Brett Kirk, Nick Smith
HF: Ryan O'Keefe, Adam Goodes, Josh Kennedy
F: Jesse White, Daniel Bradshaw, Lewis Jetta
Foll: Mike Pyke, Jude Bolton, Kieren Jack
I/C: Daniel Hannebery, Henry Playfair, Lewis Roberts-Thomson, Gary Rohan
Emg: Paul Bevan, Matt O'Dwyer, Campbell Heath

In: Henry Playfair, Lewis Roberts-Thomson, Daniel Hannebery
Out: Jarred Moore (ankle), Ed Barlow, Shane Mumford (suspended)

Sockeye Salmon

13-05-2010, 05:07 PM

Henry Playfair!!!!! WTF?????

I thought he got delisted 3 years ago. Bring it on!

comrade

13-05-2010, 05:08 PM

Henry Playfair is still on an AFL list?

Sedat

13-05-2010, 05:09 PM

Henry Playfair!!!!! WTF?????

Hopefully he doesn't carve us up like Luke Vogels did a few years ago :)

LostDoggy

13-05-2010, 05:10 PM

Hopefully Everitt's ankle isnt too bad and its just a week, cant believe Playfair is playing!

Would have maybe liked Moles in this week but you cant complain and its good to see Eade giving Stack a good run.

bornadog

13-05-2010, 05:12 PM

Emergencies are all midfield types, so if Griffen is sore, there may be a late change.

Templeton31

13-05-2010, 05:20 PM

Dissapointing about everitt. I thought he might be able to go with Goodes.

bornadog

13-05-2010, 05:25 PM

Dissapointing about everitt. I thought he might be able to go with Goodes.

Yes will be interesting who picks him up, he always plays well against us. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back in the ruck.

The Bulldogs Bite

13-05-2010, 05:29 PM

Good change and this is what I personally wanted to see. Everitt was ordinary against Melbourne, but I just don't think our defence can continue to play both Andrejs/Tommy. Too top heavy and I am confident our back half can shape up a bit better this week. It's nothing against Everitt, been playing OK - but with one of Everitt/Williams out, it suits our balance.

If Hahn doesn't lift his performance this week, I'd trial Everitt in his role.

Hopefully Minson can fire up this week too. Been very good in the VFL which is what he needed. With Mumford AND Seaby out, we should smash them in the ruck.

Agree with others - Playfair? I didn't know he was still on a list either. He hasn't played for about 2 years? Amazing. Big win for us. ;)

Flamethrower

13-05-2010, 05:31 PM

Roos mentioned in his presser that Playfair was a chance to come in after some good form in the 2nds, after overcoming hamstring problems.

LostDoggy

13-05-2010, 05:46 PM

I think were more top heavy with Everitt out for Minson.

Ghost Dog

13-05-2010, 05:58 PM

Bit worried about leg speed. I reckon that is what has hurt us - Port in the NAB and Demons last week. Missing Callan Ward and Picken Badly.

bornadog

13-05-2010, 05:58 PM

If Hahn doesn't lift his performance this week, I'd trial Everitt in his role.

Agree, Hahn really needs to lift. We can't carry passengers if we want to be a top 2 team.

Ghost Dog

13-05-2010, 06:01 PM

They've been largely without captain Brad Johnson and Jason Akermanis has been down on form, but with Shaun Higgins stepping up, Matthew Boyd slotting in nicely after a two-week layoff and Brian Lake showing his versatility as a sometimes forward, the signs are there. ( westernbulldogs.net )

Read above --> far out they are a bit hard on Aker, I thought he had a pretty good game last week.

Scorlibo

13-05-2010, 06:19 PM

Agree, Hahn really needs to lift. We can't carry passengers if we want to be a top 2 team.

Why is Hahn always the scapegoat? He is still playing better than half the team at the moment. I likened his start to the season to Murphy's a few weeks ago and got clobbered, but really how has Murphy out performed him?

LostDoggy

13-05-2010, 06:32 PM

Can't believe Minson is back in, at least i will get some laughable entertainment this week.

Go_Dogs

13-05-2010, 06:43 PM

Although it's disappointing that Everitt has gone out with an injury, I'm glad that we've brought Minson in, in place of another tall so it doesn't weaken our run.

Great to see Stack get another opportunity too.

BAD - have you heard something about Griffen perhaps not pulling up at 100%?

Mantis

13-05-2010, 06:47 PM

Can't believe Minson is back in, at least i will get some laughable entertainment this week.

Awesome comment. :rolleyes:

Will had a disrupted pre-season which obviously affected his performances in our first few games. He has gone back to Williamstown and re-discovered his form which is what was asked of him. He deserves to be back in the team so hopefully he goes well.

chef

13-05-2010, 07:00 PM

Can't believe Minson is back in, at least i will get some laughable entertainment this week.

Bit rough:confused: Not a fan?

I'm glad Big Will's back in and look forward to him setting up our midfielders for clearances(which he is very good at).

mighty_west

13-05-2010, 07:00 PM

Awesome comment. :rolleyes:

Will had a disrupted pre-season which obviously affected his performances in our first few games. He has gone back to Williamstown and re-discovered his form which is what was asked of him. He deserves to be back in the team so hopefully he goes well.

2nd that, Will's ruckwork has actually been ok this season, just i guess a few brain fades & work around the ground perhaps has let himself down somewhat, i really believe we need a fit & firing Hudson AND Minson, especially at the business end of the season, Roughead playing a few games here & there will be good for his development, but will most likely get smashed about a bit in September, and Huddo cannot do it all on his own.

LostDoggy

13-05-2010, 07:07 PM

Bit rough:confused: Not a fan?

I'm glad Big Will's back in and look forward to him setting up our midfielders for clearances(which he is very good at).

Not a fan at all, and i still don't think we can win a Premiership with him in the team.

Having a disrupted pre season, doesn't impact on how your brain functions. Watching Roughy play his couple of games was very pleasing, he did things that Minson would never do. I don't think you can be as one dimensional as Will & survive in today's modern game.

He continues making the same mistakes year after year, the majority are simple football brain mistakes. He's ruck work is really good, which i have praised him for on this forum in the past. You need to be more then just a tap ruckman these days, something i don't think Will can be. I question his footballing smarts, and still do to this day.

That's just my opinion.

LostDoggy

13-05-2010, 07:22 PM

Rocco Jones

13-05-2010, 07:27 PM

Mark Blake is a premiership ruckman and i think Will is at least the equal of him

Yeah, I often have a good laugh at the 'we can't win a flag with so and so in the side' calls. I'm not a massive fan of Will but plenty of worse players have played in premiership.

Grantysghost

13-05-2010, 07:41 PM

mighty_west

13-05-2010, 07:51 PM

Yeah, I often have a good laugh at the 'we can't win a flag with so and so in the side' calls. I'm not a massive fan of Will but plenty of worse players have played in premiership.

Hey, Aaron Keating is a superstar! ;)

EasternWest

13-05-2010, 07:53 PM

Not a fan at all, and i still don't think we can win a Premiership with him in the team.

Having a disrupted pre season, doesn't impact on how your brain functions. Watching Roughy play his couple of games was very pleasing, he did things that Minson would never do. I don't think you can be as one dimensional as Will & survive in today's modern game.

He continues making the same mistakes year after year, the majority are simple football brain mistakes. He's ruck work is really good, which i have praised him for on this forum in the past. You need to be more then just a tap ruckman these days, something i don't think Will can be. I question his footballing smarts, and still do to this day.

That's just my opinion.

I think you'll find people more accepting of what you say when you state your reasons as honestly as this. If it's fair criticism in your opinion, then it's a-ok:).

I think Will is clearly still our number 2 ruckman. I concede that he still makes dumb mistakes, but he works pretty hard around the ground. A lot of time he gets criticised for his mistakes in link up play, but I think it's only fair to acknowledge the amount of work he does to get himself into the position to be that linkup. It mustn't be easy to cover the ground when you're as massive as him.

hujsh

13-05-2010, 08:18 PM

I'm a little dissapointed Roughead isn't back in the team, his mobility would hurt the Swannies around the ground with no ruckman of note to stop him. And he has some good Manuka form! ;)
Assume he is still injured?

I don't get the Roughead fascination by a few on this forum. I'm assuming it's got something to do with Sockeye's 20 game rule but Roughead didn't do that much against the Crows and only really bobbed up for that one goal against the Saints and now he's able to carve teams up? (this isn't just directed at you by the way Grantysghost) He was good for a debutant but Minson is still the better ruckman.

Sedat

13-05-2010, 08:28 PM

Yeah, I often have a good laugh at the 'we can't win a flag with so and so in the side' calls. I'm not a massive fan of Will but plenty of worse players have played in premiership.
Just talking ruckmen alone, there have been some real uber-duds win premiership medallians over the years. Aaron Keating, Ben Marsh, Ryan Turnbull, Beau McDonald, Matty Capuano, just to name a few. Paul Dear even won a Norm Smith Medal for his troubles. And if Collingwood managed to sneak over the line in 2002 (which was looking highly likely before Aker decided to break the filth hearts with 5 minutes to go :)), Stephen McKee would have been a premiership ruckman.

As a footballer, Minson absolutely towers all over this mob.

Sockeye Salmon

13-05-2010, 08:37 PM

Mario Bortolotto played 21 games and two of them were winning grand finals

LostDoggy

13-05-2010, 09:17 PM

Why is Hahn always the scapegoat? He is still playing better than half the team at the moment. I likened his start to the season to Murphy's a few weeks ago and got clobbered, but really how has Murphy out performed him?

I tend to agree.
Even when Mitch isn't playing well skill wise, he seems to be one of the few willing to risk his body and work his arse off till the ball is well clear of his area (eg. second efforts). How many times do you see him tackle someone then quickly release them to tackle the next person the ball was disposed to????

The Pie Man

13-05-2010, 09:20 PM

I don't get the Roughead fascination by a few on this forum. I'm assuming it's got something to do with Sockeye's 20 game rule but Roughead didn't do that much against the Crows and only really bobbed up for that one goal against the Saints and now he's able to carve teams up? (this isn't just directed at you by the way Grantysghost) He was good for a debutant but Minson is still the better ruckman.

Maybe it is the 20 game rule, but I am a massive fan of Jordan - I believe he offers more upside than Minson long term.

Having said that (anyone notice that phrase bob up twice in the Bulldog mag from Rocket?) neither am I surprised or disappointed that Minson's in this week. Sent back to get form & fitness, and he's done that. Should still have an impact at AFL level, and his stint in the VFL was win-win for me (he gets better form, gives Jordan a taste)

AndrewP6

13-05-2010, 09:27 PM

[QUOTE=The Pie Man;152621]

Having said that (anyone notice that phrase bob up twice in the Bulldog mag from Rocket?)

And 'Young' comes up a couple of times too...

bornadog

13-05-2010, 11:14 PM

He continues making the same mistakes year after year, the majority are simple football brain mistakes. .

I concede that he still makes dumb mistakes, .

Please explain what these mistakes are?

Yes he ran across the mark, not the first to do it.

Sorry can't agree with this statement.

By the way, Rockets comment about the dumbest smart footballer, was taken entirely out of context by the media.

EasternWest

13-05-2010, 11:20 PM

Please explain what these mistakes are?

Yes he ran across the mark, not the first to do it.

Sorry can't agree with this statement.

By the way, Rockets comment about the dumbest smart footballer, was taken entirely out of context by the media.

No, not the first. But he is a recidivist offender. And I feel I've been taken out of context there. My entire post stated that I believe Minson is still clearly our second best ruckman, though prone to error. I also praised his workrate. But I guess that's irrelevant to the point you're making.

bornadog

13-05-2010, 11:28 PM

No, not the first. But he is a recidivist offender. And I feel I've been taken out of context there. My entire post stated that I believe Minson is still clearly our second best ruckman, though prone to error. I also praised his workrate. But I guess that's irrelevant to the point you're making.

Not meant to take out of context.

I noticed after Minson had run across the mark against Collingwood as well as kicked the ball out on the full against Brisbane, that posters kept mentioning, how Dumb big Will was. I don't believe he makes, so called dumb mistakes and thats why I asked for examples.

Sometimes one or two errors in a loss are magnified. Against Brisbane the worst offenders were the midfield as well as some of the backline who kept turning over the ball, but no one said Boyd made dumb mistakes etc.

EasternWest

13-05-2010, 11:50 PM

No problem. One or two mistakes in a loss are almost always maligned.

I think being so big and lumbering that there's nowhere for Will to hide when he errs. You're right that he's really probably no worse than some others, but his size and the attention drawn to his errors has made him a bit of a target.

I still maintain he's ruck no 2, and I think he'd have a few more friends if he could clunk a few in the forward line.

divvydan

14-05-2010, 12:09 AM

Given Griffen's soreness at training today, I assume we'll be taking an emergency up to Canberra on Saturday. Does anyone know which emergency will be going up with the team?

comrade

14-05-2010, 05:25 AM

Given Griffen's soreness at training today, I assume we'll be taking an emergency up to Canberra on Saturday. Does anyone know which emergency will be going up with the team?

If I had to guess, I'd say the Eagle might make the trip.

Ghost Dog

14-05-2010, 08:12 AM

Will be interesting to watch Mitch and Will in this game. I'm sure all Woofers will be keeping a close eye on their stats. Hope it's not wet. We are not a great wet weather team IMO. I'm still high on last week. Play that last Griff goal on a loop, I will never tire.

Mantis

14-05-2010, 08:38 AM

If I had to guess, I'd say the Eagle might make the trip.

It would be important to get a game into Eagleton all the same.

I am pretty sure the VFL have a 'bye' next week for a state game so if Eagleton misses out this week it will deny him the chance to play for a few weeks as well as him gaining some much needed match practice/ fitness. (Same too for Moles)

OLD SCRAGGer

14-05-2010, 09:45 AM

[
That's just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Thank goodness Rocket doesn't listen to your opinion:D But that's just MY OPINION:);)

hujsh

14-05-2010, 09:58 AM

Maybe it is the 20 game rule, but I am a massive fan of Jordan - I believe he offers more upside than Minson long term.

Yeah he does look a great prospect, I'll concede that any day of the week.

Grantysghost

14-05-2010, 10:17 AM

I don't get the Roughead fascination by a few on this forum. I'm assuming it's got something to do with Sockeye's 20 game rule but Roughead didn't do that much against the Crows and only really bobbed up for that one goal against the Saints and now he's able to carve teams up? (this isn't just directed at you by the way Grantysghost) He was good for a debutant but Minson is still the better ruckman.

Fair point you make hujsh. I think i'm remembering a couple of good things he did in the NAB cup as well.
I reckon his style is more complimentary to Hudsons, whereas Will and "The Beard" are both similar old school type ruckmen.
I really like Will and hope he plays well this week, but against Playfair, Jessie White and maybe Mike Pyke dont know if it will be a true test.

LostDoggy

14-05-2010, 10:35 AM

Mario Bortolotto played 21 games and two of them were winning grand finals

Wow, just over the 20-game rule mark. If he had played one game less he would be remembered as a legend that never fulfilled his massive potential.

LostDoggy

14-05-2010, 01:59 PM

Yeah, I often have a good laugh at the 'we can't win a flag with so and so in the side' calls. I'm not a massive fan of Will but plenty of worse players have played in premiership.

Lewis roberts Thompson to be the worst ever?

Remi Moses

14-05-2010, 02:15 PM

I Guess the Digs on Will is that he doesn't clunk enough marks.Roughead is closing in fast and really let's face it there should be no excuses for our rucks this weekend!!

EasternWest

14-05-2010, 02:53 PM

Lewis roberts Thompson to be the worst ever?

I think LRT is ok. If he's the worst ever, then he'd be the only worst ever who nearly won a Norm Smith.

chef

14-05-2010, 04:35 PM

Lewis roberts Thompson to be the worst ever?

He played alright in two grand finals.

Desipura

14-05-2010, 10:06 PM

Ian Aitken and Mark Athorn played in premierships

azabob

15-05-2010, 07:38 AM

Aparently Bradshaw is out.

GVGjr

15-05-2010, 07:52 AM

Aparently Bradshaw is out.

Not unexpected but I wonder how it will change all the defensive match-ups. Perhaps there is a chance for Lake to play as a forward.

azabob

15-05-2010, 08:11 AM

Not unexpected but I wonder how it will change all the defensive match-ups. Perhaps there is a chance for Lake to play as a forward.

Perahps - Im a bit concerned with Morris on Goodes for some reason. Having said that not sure we have the right type of player to play on Goodes.

LostDoggy

15-05-2010, 09:16 AM

Please explain what these mistakes are?

Yes he ran across the mark, not the first to do it.

Sorry can't agree with this statement.

By the way, Rockets comment about the dumbest smart footballer, was taken entirely out of context by the media.

It's not just the running over the mark, it's also simple mistakes in one on one contests & basic footballing errors. When he used to play deep in the forward line, he would wrestle & grapple with opponents & make stupid decisions which would give away free kicks. He doesn't use his size too his advantage, instead catching players high or totally misreading the flight of the footy & not taking marks he should. All he needs to do is use his footballing smarts, to put his big frame in positions where the opposition wouldn't be able to do anything.

He could be a much more dangerous player, if he was able to read situations better & make better footballing decisions.

No, not the first. But he is a recidivist offender. And I feel I've been taken out of context there. My entire post stated that I believe Minson is still clearly our second best ruckman, though prone to error. I also praised his workrate. But I guess that's irrelevant to the point you're making.

Don't worry i think i was taken out of context also, considering people are listing players who won Premierships from 10+ years ago. When i clearly stated 'in today's modern game' i didn't think his type of style could cope, the game has changed a fair bit recently.

I hope he is BOG today, nothing would please me more.

Ghost Dog

15-05-2010, 09:34 AM

Dunno. I don't think there are too many favorites who get a free ride at western oval. Will would not be playing if his form was not top notch. Big one please Willy!

LostDoggy

15-05-2010, 09:47 AM

Dunno. I don't think there are too many favorites who get a free ride at western oval. Will would not be playing if his form was not top notch. Big one please Willy!

I don't think Will gets a free ride, he could be doing what is asked of him by the coaching staff. I just have my doubts with him, like i have for a while.

I could be marking him a little hard, because he was playing role he isn't suited to (as a tall marking forward).

Rocco Jones

15-05-2010, 09:48 AM

Don't worry i think i was taken out of context also, considering people are listing players who won Premierships from 10+ years ago. When i clearly stated 'in today's modern game' i didn't think his type of style could cope, the game has changed a fair bit recently.

I have commented on my thread on the issue about this but I don't think it's a case of his style not being able to cope with the modern game but the fact that we also have Hudson, which doesn't suit Minson.

Both are such pure ruckmen and offer little elsewhere. Hudson is the superior ruck and Minson is slightly less of a liability up forward so Will gets the 2nd ruck role and has to spend TOG out of the ruck, which hurts him. Will would look a lot better if he were paired up with a mobile ruck option who would play elsewhere and offer him support in the ruck, allowing Minson to concentrate solely on the ruck.

Ghost Dog

15-05-2010, 09:52 AM

Not unexpected but I wonder how it will change all the defensive match-ups. Perhaps there is a chance for Lake to play as a forward.

Um, the Bradshaw thing was a gag right :)

Apparently Hall is out too!

LostDoggy

15-05-2010, 09:58 AM

I have commented on my thread on the issue about this but I don't think it's a case of his style not being able to cope with the modern game but the fact that we also have Hudson, which doesn't suit Minson.

Both are such pure ruckmen and offer little elsewhere. Hudson is the superior ruck and Minson is slightly less of a liability up forward so Will gets the 2nd ruck role and has to spend TOG out of the ruck, which hurts him. Will would look a lot better if he were paired up with a mobile ruck option who would play elsewhere and offer him support in the ruck, allowing Minson to concentrate solely on the ruck.

You have probably hit the nail on the head actually, this will be interesting to see once Huddo moves on. We could possibly see Roughy & Will sharing the ruck duties, given that Will is still very young in age. 25 i think?

Roughy your more mobile type & Will being just the pure ruckman that he is, could possibly release the shackles a bit.

G-Mo77

15-05-2010, 10:18 AM

Um, the Bradshaw thing was a gag right :)

I don't think it is....

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/knee-complaint-leaves-bradshaw-grounded-20100515-v4tg.html

divvydan

15-05-2010, 12:56 PM

late changes:

WESTERN BULLDOGS v SYDNEY SWANS
Western Bulldogs
B: Jarrod Harbrow, Brian Lake, Dale Morris
HB: Ryan Hargrave, Tom Williams, Dylan Addison
C: Lindsay Gilbee, Matthew Boyd, Daniel Cross
HF: Robert Murphy, Mitch Hahn, Shaun Higgins
F: Jarrad Grant, Barry Hall, Josh Hill
Foll: Ben Hudson, Adam Cooney, Daniel Giansiracusa
I/C: Shaun Higgins, Jason Akermanis, Will Minson, Nathan Eagleton
Changes to the selected side
In: Eagleton
Out: Ryan Griffen

Sydney Swans
B: Rhyce Shaw, Lewis Roberts-Thomson, Tadhg Kennelly
HB: Paul Bevan, Heath Grundy, Nick Malceski
C: Jarrad McVeigh, Brett Kirk, Nick Smith
HF: Ryan O'Keefe, Adam Goodes, Josh Kennedy
F: Ted Richards, Henry Playfair, Gary Rohan
Foll: Mike Pyke, Jude Bolton, Kieren Jack
I/C: Daniel Hannebery, Jesse White, Martin Mattner, Lewis Jetta
Changes to the selected side
In: Bevan
Out: Daniel Bradshaw