Have I gone blind? [Archive] - Whitten Oval Online Forum

Dry Rot

16-05-2010, 09:33 PM

I've worn glasses since I was nine, and I've been called either one eyed or four eyes ever since, depending upon whether it involves footy. Sometimes it's hard to read small type.

So I clicked on the Herald Sun ladder and was pleasantly surprised to see that we are fourth on percentage in a bracket of five teams. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ladder

Bored I took a closer look at actual points for and against. We currently have the second best defensive record.

Is that right? Or have I gone blind?

If so, that's terrific news IMO. Can't remember the last time I saw this.

LostDoggy

16-05-2010, 09:36 PM

No your eyes are fine, I heard them talking about that during the game yeaterday

comrade

16-05-2010, 10:23 PM

chef

16-05-2010, 10:40 PM

Is that right? Or have I gone blind?

If so, that's terrific news IMO. Can't remember the last time I saw this.

Our back six have been rock solid this year.

Throughandthrough

16-05-2010, 10:58 PM

Forwards win memberships
Defenders win premierships.

LostDoggy

16-05-2010, 10:59 PM

Those stats are skewed a little bit:

- we played in the lowest scoring game ever at Docklands,
- we met the Demons on a shocking night that wasn't conducive to scoring
- we've played some terrible teams

Our defensive efforts have been ok (our back 6 have been great most weeks) but our midfield pressure needs to improve, and it should with Picken and Ward to return.

Yesterday's game was easily our best all round defensive effort, IMO.

I think you will find that our defence has been excellent, considering we have conceded alot of inside 50's. Not sure on stats but % of goals per inside 50's conceded will be one of the lowest in competition.

\

comrade

16-05-2010, 11:10 PM

I think you will find that our defence has been excellent, considering we have conceded alot of inside 50's. Not sure on stats but % of goals per inside 50's conceded will be one of the lowest in competition.

Which is why I said our back six have been great and our midfield pressure needs to improve :)

Sedat

17-05-2010, 11:19 AM

Which is why I said our back six have been great and our midfield pressure needs to improve :)
Agree wholeheartedly, with the exception of Shaggy. Imagine how difficult we will be to score against when Shaggy finds some form and the midfield tightens up defensively.

LostDoggy

17-05-2010, 11:25 AM

Agree wholeheartedly, with the exception of Shaggy. Imagine how difficult we will be to score against when Shaggy finds some form and the midfield tightens up defensively.

In regards to Shaggys form, i know his rebounding and decision making has not been up to scratch but correct me if i am wrong i don't think anyone has got a hold of him and kicked a bag of goals or been a real damaging player for the opposition.

bornadog

17-05-2010, 11:31 AM

I think you will find that our defence has been excellent, considering we have conceded alot of inside 50's. Not sure on stats but % of goals per inside 50's conceded will be one of the lowest in competition.

\

Defence was shocking against Collingwood, with the Collingwood midgets running riot, however, agree since then, we have been very good.

Mantis

17-05-2010, 11:35 AM

In regards to Shaggys form, i know his rebounding and decision making has not been up to scratch but correct me if i am wrong i don't think anyone has got a hold of him and kicked a bag of goals or been a real damaging player for the opposition.

Medhurst touched him up in the 1st game, but from reports Shaggy was ill before the game.

Sedat

17-05-2010, 11:35 AM

In regards to Shaggys form, i know his rebounding and decision making has not been up to scratch but correct me if i am wrong i don't think anyone has got a hold of him and kicked a bag of goals or been a real damaging player for the opposition.
Medhurst really torched him in Round 1, a player who has been average this season and who Shaggy ran rings around previously.

chef

17-05-2010, 11:45 AM

In regards to Shaggys form, i know his rebounding and decision making has not been up to scratch but correct me if i am wrong i don't think anyone has got a hold of him and kicked a bag of goals or been a real damaging player for the opposition.

He's given away a lot of free kicks(plus 50 meter penalties) that have cost goals too.

Desipura

17-05-2010, 12:48 PM

He's given away a lot of free kicks(plus 50 meter penalties) that have cost goals too.
This is correct, lets not make any excuses for Hargreave, he has not been playing as well as last season at this stage.

bornadog

17-05-2010, 01:07 PM

He's given away a lot of free kicks(plus 50 meter penalties) that have cost goals too.

Averaged less than one free kick against, per game this year:confused:

LostDoggy

17-05-2010, 01:18 PM

This is correct, lets not make any excuses for Hargreave, he has not been playing as well as last season at this stage.

Better run, TCD will be livid...

stefoid

17-05-2010, 01:32 PM

Its our score FOR which is a worry.

The Coon Dog

17-05-2010, 01:34 PM

Better run, TCD will be livid...

Lol, I know with Desipura it was just a typo, he hates it as much as I do. ;)

chef

17-05-2010, 01:37 PM

Averaged less than one free kick against, per game this year:confused:

Off the top of my head he gave away two fifties that cost goals against Brisbane, holding the man(his arm) against Hughes 20 meters out late in the last quarter for the last goal that Melbourne scored and a fifty against Goodes that resulted in a goal. He hasn't been the player this year he has been in previous seasons.

Topdog

17-05-2010, 02:51 PM

Off the top of my head he gave away two fifties that cost goals against Brisbane, holding the man(his arm) against Hughes 20 meters out late in the last quarter for the last goal that Melbourne scored and a fifty against Goodes that resulted in a goal. He hasn't been the player this year he has been in previous seasons.

Pretty sure a 50m isn't regarded as a free kick against in the stats.

chef

17-05-2010, 03:07 PM

Pretty sure a 50m isn't regarded as a free kick against in the stats.

With the Goodes one it was Eagleton who gave away the free but Hargrave gave away the 50.

Desipura

17-05-2010, 03:54 PM

Lol, I know with Desipura it was just a typo, he hates it as much as I do. ;)
corect he is ;)

Topdog

17-05-2010, 05:11 PM

With the Goodes one it was Eagleton who gave away the free but Hargrave gave away the 50.

Yep so in that instance the stats have Hargrave as doing nothing (IIRC) which is pretty stupid.

bornadog

17-05-2010, 05:18 PM

chef

17-05-2010, 05:27 PM

No, he didn't give away a 50 against Hughes.

I didn't say that one was a fifty, just a free 20 meters out from goal for holding Hughes arm.

bornadog

17-05-2010, 05:34 PM

I didn't say that one was a fifty, just a free 20 meters out from goal for holding Hughes arm.

Ok, my point is he has only given away 6 free kicks in 7 games he has played. You made the comment that he gives away too many frees, which I disagreed with facts.

Others to give away frees in the backline are:

Lake - 5
Harbrow - 5
Williams - 7
Morris -2
Gilbee - 2

chef

17-05-2010, 05:41 PM

Ok, my point is he has only given away 6 free kicks in 7 games he has played. You made the comment that he gives away too many frees, which I disagreed with facts.
Others to give away frees in the backline are:

Lake - 5
Harbrow - 5
Williams - 7
Morris -2
Gilbee - 2

Fair enough, I feel dirty bagging Hargrave as he's a player I like but this year he seems off his game. Maybe it's just his free's have been out of character for Shaggy(eg clearly holding someones arm, bumping someones head after a mark 60m out, not throwing the ball back properly) and have cost goals. But I don't want him dropped as I have faith he'll turn it around.

EasternWest

17-05-2010, 05:55 PM

Fair enough, I feel dirty bagging Hargrave as he's a player I like but this year he seems off his game. Maybe it's just his free's have been out of character for Shaggy(eg clearly holding someones arm, bumping someones head after a mark 60m out, not throwing the ball back properly) and have cost goals. But I don't want him dropped as I have faith he'll turn it around.

This particular point has always been a problem with Ryan.

chef

17-05-2010, 06:07 PM

This particular point has always been a problem with Ryan.

I was of the opinion he had ironed these out of his game over the last few years(maybe my perception of Shaggy is the problem:D).

bornadog

17-05-2010, 08:07 PM

This particular point has always been a problem with Ryan.

Agree, the most free kicks that he has given away over the years was for holding an arm.

EasternWest

17-05-2010, 09:48 PM

I was of the opinion he had ironed these out of his game over the last few years(maybe my perception of Shaggy is the problem:D).

No, I think you're right, he has been done for this less of late. My theory on this is with the emergence of Lake, Morris and to a lesser (but please god continuing) extent Williams, he doesn't have to play on big forwards and doesn't do the panicky grab as much. But he does still do it, Hughes for Melbourne a case in point.

Ghost Dog

17-05-2010, 11:24 PM

Which is why I said our back six have been great and our midfield pressure needs to improve :)

I think it will improve. Success breeds success. Important not to peak too early.

LostDoggy

18-05-2010, 08:56 AM

I think it will improve. Success breeds success. Important not to peak too early.

True. But we do need to stitch up a top four berth, which seems much harder this year than in ’08 or ’09.

Ok, my point is he has only given away 6 free kicks in 7 games he has played. You made the comment that he gives away too many frees, which I disagreed with facts.

Others to give away frees in the backline are:

Lake - 5
Harbrow - 5
Williams - 7
Morris -2
Gilbee - 2

I'd look at those figures and say, as the only player who has given away more is Williams, who is still learning the game, this is quite an indictment on Shags. I love him, one of my favourites, but if he's at six with Dale at two, he needs to work on it.

What surprises me more is that Lake has only given away 5. I thought it would’ve been more, considering the very physical side to his game, and he seems to be forever getting pinged for hands in the back.

stefoid

18-05-2010, 09:19 AM

Agree, the most free kicks that he has given away over the years was for holding an arm.

Playing devils advocate, how many goals has he saved by holding an arm and not getting caught?

LostDoggy

18-05-2010, 10:05 AM

Playing devils advocate, how many goals has he saved by holding an arm and not getting caught?

Hundreds.

Lanky dudes always look clumsier when they make mistakes. It's just how it is.

Bulldog4life

18-05-2010, 10:42 AM

Forwards win memberships
Defenders win premierships.

This is the crux of it. If we are to go all the way this year to have the same 6 playing together is a must. Sure one or another might have down periods but in my opinion the knowledge each player has about the others game style etc...even though Tom is a relative newbie... holds us in good stead for a serious tilt at the Flag should we reach the GF.

jazzadogs

18-05-2010, 03:22 PM

Ok, my point is he has only given away 6 free kicks in 7 games he has played. You made the comment that he gives away too many frees, which I disagreed with facts.

Others to give away frees in the backline are:

Lake - 5
Harbrow - 5
Williams - 7
Morris -2
Gilbee - 2
Hargrave has basically played two games less than the others (one he actually missed, plus the Hawthorn game he only played 10min).

I was a big fan of Shaggy when he debuted, then cooled off as he was playing out of his weight/height division because I got so frustrated with the free kicks he gave away.

The last few years have caused me to re-evaluate this stance, as he has established himself as an integral part of our backline. As many have said, a backline that works together is extremely important to the entire team.

I have also thought that Morris has not been at his best this season, but that is probably due to incredibly high expectations moreso than any significant form drop.