Pratt not bothered by Hall's form

[Mantis]

1:41 PM Wed 19 May, 2010

By Steve Lavell

North Melbourne's Daniel Pratt says his side isn't bothered by the prospect of an in-form Barry Hall ahead of Saturday's clash with the Western Bulldogs at Etihad Stadium.

Hall responded to a one-goal fortnight with five goals from 11 marks in the Bulldogs' victory over the Sydney Swans last week; a performance similar to those that rattled opposition backlines in the NAB Cup competition and from rounds three to five.

"Big Barry played pretty well. There's been a bit of media speculation around his performances lately so he obviously came out and wanted to prove a point," Pratt said from Arden Street on Wednesday.

"I'm sure he'll want to do it again this weekend. Hopefully the boys down back can get on top of him.

The rest (http://www.kangaroos.com.au/news/blogarticle/tabid/9795/newsid/94608/default.aspx)

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The bit that interested me:

'We've got (Jack) Ziebell, (Ben) Cunnington, (Andrew) Swallow, (Ryan) Bastinac, (Brent) Harvey, (Daniel) Wells and guys coming through there ... I reckon our midfield's as good as any in the competition."

Maybe in 3 or 4 years time (minus Harvey) North's midfield might be up there with the big boys, but not now.

Perhaps this might lead to another 'list' thread, but off the top of my head I wouldn't have North's midfield in the best 6 or 8 in the comp. What do others think?

[Go_Dogs]

The bit that interested me:

'We've got (Jack) Ziebell, (Ben) Cunnington, (Andrew) Swallow, (Ryan) Bastinac, (Brent) Harvey, (Daniel) Wells and guys coming through there ... I reckon our midfield's as good as any in the competition."

Maybe in 3 or 4 years time (minus Harvey) North's midfield might be up there with the big boys, but not now.

Perhaps this might lead to another 'list' thread, but off the top of my head I wouldn't have North's midfield in the best 6 or 8 in the comp. What do others think?

Can't disagree with your assessment of their midfield, certainly not one of the strongest going around IMO.

Off the top of my head, Dogs, Geelong, Saints, Carlton, Hawthorn and Collingwood are clearly better. I'm still not convinced on Freo's midfield as Pavlich is still required there quite often, but on performance, they are comfortably ahead, as are Port Adelaide, Brisbane, Sydney and perhaps even a few other sides. I'd almost go as far to say that they have one of the weaker midfields in the competition.

A heck of a lot of young potential though. Swallow, Ziebell, Wells, Cunnington, Bastinac are all potential A-Grade mids. A few others add hardness in Lower (who has been out injured), Greenwood, Urquhart, they have a good mix moving forward.

[Desipura]

Can't disagree with your assessment of their midfield, certainly not one of the strongest going around IMO.

misread your response.

[Mofra]

A heck of a lot of young potential though. Swallow, Ziebell, Wells, Cunnington, Bastinac are all potential A-Grade mids. A few others add hardness in Lower (who has been out injured), Greenwood, Urquhart, they have a good mix moving forward.
Every club has alot of young potential though.

Given the ages of those included, we could put up Cooney, Griffen and Ward as potential (current in Cooney's case) A graders with Reid, Wood, Moles and Picken as support.
That's before we ream the draft this year with Libba & Wallis.

Heck, put up Delideo, Cotchin, Tambling, Foley & Martin and Richmond could claim they have a truckload of potential too.

[Sedat]

Pratt's comments echo the 'talk yourself up' approach of the new North regime from the top down. Rightly or wrongly, North are seen as one of the least interesting/relevant clubs in the competition, so every opportunity they have had with a microphone in front of them they talk themselves up like nobody's business, led by their new coach. Some of it is insecurity, some of it is making a point of trying to change the outside perception of their 'brand'.

[Go_Dogs]

Every club has alot of young potential though.

Heck, put up Delideo, Cotchin, Tambling, Foley & Martin and Richmond could claim they have a truckload of potential too.

Not disagreeing, but certainly the clubs like North and Richmond are clubs with the "most" potential, because of their large amounts of first-second round midfielders on their respective lists.

As we know, there is a huge difference between turning potential into on-field talent, and it's no surprise that Richmond and North are both basket-cases when it comes to player development (or at least, have been).



With respects to North, they have already been able to give good game time to guys like Ziebell, Bastinac, and now Cunnington is getting his chance too. This will hold them in good stead for the future, whilst a lot of our "potential" is still sitting in the wings waiting for their opportunity (or not even on the list yet, like Wallis and Libba).

Swallow has been a terrific performer and essentially carried their midfield last year with little support. Whilst I think Cooney and Griffen are certainly superior players, I'm not convinced they would've been able to do the same job that Swallow did, with such little high-quality support.

I must say, I'm a huge wrap for North's recruiting over the past couple of seasons.

[Desipura]

Not disagreeing, but certainly the clubs like North and Richmond are clubs with the "most" potential, because of their large amounts of first-second round midfielders on their respective lists.

With respects to North, they have already been able to give good game time to guys like Ziebell, Bastinac, and now Cunnington is getting his chance too.
The bold part is incorrect. We have had more first round picks than Nth over the last 8 years.
North total 1st round picks=6

Dogs total 1st round picks=9.

With 2nd round picks, we have also had more picks with the likes of Roughead & Jones picked up in recent times. I have not named all the 2nd round picks. Dont forget North traded away their picks when Laidley was there for the likes of Nathan Thompson & Jonathon Hay.

2003: North pick 9 D Trotter
Dogs pick 1 Cooney, pick 4 Ray

2004: North pick 42 Jesse Smith
Dogs pick 3 Griffen, pick 6 Williams

2005 North pick 28 M Riggio
Dogs pick 11 Higgins

2006 North pick 3 L Hansen
Dogs pick 11 Everitt

2007 North pick 15 R Tarrant
Dogs pick 5 J Grant

2008 North pick 9 Ziebell
Dogs pick 14 Cordy

2009 North pick 5 Cunnington and pick 21 Bastinac (2nd round)
Dogs pick 15 Howard

[Mofra]

Not disagreeing, but certainly the clubs like North and Richmond are clubs with the "most" potential, because of their large amounts of first-second round midfielders on their respective lists.

As we know, there is a huge difference between turning potential into on-field talent, and it's no surprise that Richmond and North are both basket-cases when it comes to player development (or at least, have been).

...

I must say, I'm a huge wrap for North's recruiting over the past couple of seasons.
May be apples and oranges, but I think I'd take Melbourne's list over the combined lists of North & Richmond.
Their defence looks set for the next decade, and they have been playing together for a couple of years which is vital in forging an understanding amongst each other.
Their midfield looks gold with three players who should probably become out & out stars (Morton, Scully & Trengrove) and a support cast of thousands.

If Watts stands up as a KPP, between Bate, Wona, Jurrah they have the nucleus of a stable F50 that can feed off each other.

Given the comparison of picks vs talent, I'd say North are roughly par on what they've been able to provide and Richmond not too far behind.

[Go_Dogs]

The bold part is incorrect.

My reference was to midfielders though, not just picks in general, and more so for the more recent drafts.

For example:

2006 Urquhart - Pick 21
2007 Greenwood - Pick 32
2008 - Ziebell - Pick 9, Wright - Pick 27, Anthony - Pick 43 (not really second round territory I know)
2009 - Cunnington - Pick 5, Bastinac - Pick 21, MacMillan - Pick 37


Compared to us:

2006 - we got Everitt (tall), and our other selections were a little deeper in the draft (50+)
2007 - Ward, Reid and Wood.
2008 - No mids
2009 - Howard, Tutt.


That gives the Roos 8 midfielder types from picks 40ish or better, whilst we have 5 that meet that category. All of the Kangaroos selections have played (bar MacMillan, who I am aware has been impressive on the track) and probably 6 of them are first choice players at this stage. Ward is our only first choice player from the comparative bunch.



My analysis of Richmond probably wasn't as good, because having a closer look at their recent drafting history, they have tended to go a bit taller - but certainly with Martin, Cotchin, Deledio - are definitely still full of potential - with all 3 being top 3 selections.

[Go_Dogs]

May be apples and oranges, but I think I'd take Melbourne's list over the combined lists of North & Richmond.
Their defence looks set for the next decade, and they have been playing together for a couple of years which is vital in forging an understanding amongst each other.
Their midfield looks gold with three players who should probably become out & out stars (Morton, Scully & Trengrove) and a support cast of thousands.

If Watts stands up as a KPP, between Bate, Wona, Jurrah they have the nucleus of a stable F50 that can feed off each other.

Given the comparison of picks vs talent, I'd say North are roughly par on what they've been able to provide and Richmond not too far behind.

No disagreement from me on that point, but it certainly helps when you have the top echelon of picks and are gifted players of the quality of Trengove, Scully, Morton and (future)Watts. Let's also not under-sell their development program, as Bailey has a huge amount of expertise in development and working with younger players.

Certainly agree with your last point, that given the picks v talent comparison, North do exceptionally well. Robbie Tarrant and Aaron Black were both very highly regarded talls, so may do just as well with them as Melbourne have done with Watts.

I just really like the blend that North have, with inside and outside types, players with great kicking skills for the modern game (Urquhart), inside players like Cunnington and Greenwood, inside-outside types like Bastinac and Ziebell - it's a very strong foundation that ticks a lot (if not all) of the midfield boxes.

[chef]

Hopefully Hall doesn't get sucked in by serial pest Scott Thompson, as many other have.

[mighty_west]

Hopefully Hall doesn't get sucked in by serial pest Scott Thompson, as many other have.

If Hally can get past Thompson, he can just about get past any niggling defender, he just doesn't stop, little elbows, punches, jabs in the back all day long.

[Mofra]

No disagreement from me on that point, but it certainly helps when you have the top echelon of picks and are gifted players of the quality of Trengove, Scully, Morton and (future)Watts. Let's also not under-sell their development program, as Bailey has a huge amount of expertise in development and working with younger players.
Certainly wouldn't want to undersell Bailey - he all but stabilised the back six as a matter of priority so they could gain experience playing together, which good defensive units need. Eade spoke of his decision to get our backline playing together as often as possible in the early days, even when it sometimes cost us goals, because the benefits will come in time.

Unfortunately for North, both Greenwood & Tarrant (two big boys) have had significant injury troubles in the past. We have had Walsh & Williams in the same boat, although Williams seems past most of his problems and now just needs gametime.

On another tack, I think one of the keys to Hall/Thompson is to have Hahn smash into him as often as possible. If Thompson can be distracted Hall may get the break on him a couple of times on the lead which is all it takes for Hall to take the points in the contest.

[Mantis]

Unfortunately for North, both Greenwood & Tarrant (two big boys) have had significant injury troubles in the past. We have had Walsh & Williams in the same boat, although Williams seems past most of his problems and now just needs gametime.



Goldstein?

Levi Greenwood is only 181cm.


On another tack, I think one of the keys to Hall/Thompson is to have Hahn smash into him as often as possible. If Thompson can be distracted Hall may get the break on him a couple of times on the lead which is all it takes for Hall to take the points in the contest.

Playing this way doesn't seem to come naturally to Hahn so he may not feel comfortable doing it. Perhaps Minson could do this a little better, but knowing how Will goes about it he will probably get suspended for 4 weeks in the process.

[Mofra]

Goldstein?

Levi Greenwood is only 181cm.
Greenwood is a monster though - was mid 80kgs range at 17 which is the only reason I've maintained an interest in him. Might end up a shorter version of Mitch Hahn.


Playing this way doesn't seem to come naturally to Hahn so he may not feel comfortable doing it. Perhaps Minson could do this a little better, but knowing how Will goes about it he will probably get suspended for 4 weeks in the process.
True, although the "Scott Welsh ultimatum" tends to help players overcome this ;)

Minson could miss him altogether & hit Baz instead :o

[chef]

Hopefully Hall doesn't get sucked in by serial pest Scott Thompson, as many other have.

Hopefully he doesn't get suspended:(