Are we being hypocritical?

[EasternWest]

Ok, I'll start this thread by saying I haven't seen the game yet. I listened to it live and have since read the news reports and the posts here, and I've been thinking a bit about it.

There seems to be a lot of vitriol thrown at North for their attempts to rile Hall, but I'm curious to know from those that saw the game/are making these comments: was the Hall treatment any different from the relentless physical harassment we applied to Riewoldt in the PF last year? Is it any different from the treatement that Picken (and pretty much every other tagger IMO) dishes out?

FWIW from what I've seen on the news etc and read, it looked like he was getting a fair bit of attention, but he's a big boy. I'll agree that in general play he really struggles to get free kicks paid, probably due to his reputation, but I've never really had a problem with players niggling each other incessantly, provided it doesn't cross the line.

So, did it cross the line?

I'm not posting this thread to be antagonistic, so please don't pot me for asking the question. I'm just curious to know what has caused this scenario to raise such ire.

[Go_Dogs]

was the Hall treatment any different from the relentless physical harassment we applied to Riewoldt in the PF last year?

Difference being, Riewoldt gets frees for like and softer incidents, and Hall gets none.

[SonofScray]

No, we are not. The niggle was fine. The poor officiating was not - mark my words you simply would not get away with it against another forward. Plenty of heat on Barry, but everyone froze wanting to see if he would snap.

The scuffle started because the umpires refused to look after Hall. The drama started when he was set upon by up to five players as he tried to leave the field. Pratt even punched him from behind. They launched themselves at a bloke with his arms up in the air, having walked away from the blue. Some tried to instigate another wrestle, others played for frees by headbutting others took cheap shots. All the while the umpires were telling off Basil, warning him to not to react.

What a load of bollocks.

[strebla]

Nth were going in all day with cheap shots and all the three monkeys could do was talk to Hall and tell him to settle FFS pay a free again the Roos in the forward line and treat all players the same.

Hall and Gia were fair targets all day aqnd THAT pissed me off

[SonofScray]

Within the first 10 mins I noted there were wuite a few late hits. Nothing severe but just enough that the intent was there and that they were going after a few blokes.

[Ghost Dog]

It's very hard to tell what's going on when watching TV. For example, Liam Picken and Brent Harvey traded free kicks all night and the cameras were not able to capture any of it.
The Fullbacks are smart right. They know that when the ball is down the other end, that's the time to pinch, pull the shorts, dig a knuckle in the kidney or whatever. I spoke to people who went to the game and they said it was pretty constant from North. None of this bothers me.
Yes he was headbutted, niggled, poked in the back, usual stuff. Forget all that. Brad Scott was correct, nothing you would not expect from a fullback.

What bugs me frankly is when a guy is trying to leave the field, the excessive group swarm. It's not uncommon for a player to cop a bump, heading to the bench. Fair enough, one on one.

However, to have it done in a group is a poor reflection of sportsmanship, disrespectful to the game or I suppose, indication of a club culture gone wrong. Can you imagine us doing that, even to St Nick ? A big cluster f**k of players taunting an individual as he leaves the field and knocking him about when he has his hands in the air?

I thought our discipline was good. Barry will swallow his medicine and I thought the crowd and other players, coach supported him well. Even saw Ryan Hargrave give him a little comforting pat on the leg while together on the bench. Don't get Aker started on that kind of thing!

Barry drew defenders to him like a magnet last night, often allowing stack or others to crumb. Should have taken a few marks but otherwise, played an important role.

Only lowly teams like Richmond and Hawthorn feel the need to get on the angry pills instead of getting on with the job. Look where that gets them.

[anfo27]

It's very hard to tell what's going on when watching TV. For example, Liam Picken and Brent Harvey traded free kicks all night and the cameras were not able to capture any of it.
The Fullbacks are smart right. They know that when the ball is down the other end, that's the time to pinch, pull the shorts, dig a knuckle in the kidney or whatever. I spoke to people who went to the game and they said it was pretty constant from North. None of this bothers me.
Yes he was headbutted, niggled, poked in the back, usual stuff. Forget all that. Brad Scott was correct, nothing you would not expect from a fullback.

What bugs me frankly is when a guy is trying to leave the field, the excessive group swarm. It's not uncommon for a player to cop a bump, heading to the bench. Fair enough, one on one.

However, to have it done in a group is a poor reflection of sportsmanship, disrespectful to the game or I suppose, indication of a club culture gone wrong. Can you imagine us doing that, even to St Nick ? A big cluster f**k of players taunting an individual as he leaves the field and knocking him about when he has his hands in the air?

I thought our discipline was good. Barry will swallow his medicine and I thought the crowd and other players, coach supported him well. Even saw Ryan Hargrave give him a little comforting pat on the leg while together on the bench. Don't get Aker started on that kind of thing!

Barry drew defenders to him like a magnet last night, often allowing stack or others to crumb. Should have taken a few marks but otherwise, played an important role.

Only lowly teams like Richmond and Hawthorn feel the need to get on the angry pills instead of getting on with the job. Look where that gets them.

Thats what really upset me and to see it over and over on tv and not see any of our blokes helping him out was very disappointing. I was at the game and only saw Lake run in to give Hall a hand when he was running to the bench.

I don't have a problem with a bit of niggle butfor the whole team to go out of their way to bump him and get in his face is disgaceful, but should we expect anything less from a Brad Scott team?

[EasternWest]

Difference being, Riewoldt gets frees for like and softer incidents, and Hall gets none.

I agree 100% with this statement, but it doesn't answer my question. There seems to be anger levelled at North, but is what they did different to what we did? That's what I'm curious about.


everyone froze wanting to see if he would snap.

That's a big indictment, and I agree. The will he/won't he fascination is ridiculous. The glee in the radio commentators voices when it boiled over was crazy.

[bornadog]

What bugs me frankly[/U][/B] is when a guy is trying to leave the field, the excessive group swarm. It's not uncommon for a player to cop a bump, heading to the bench. Fair enough, one on one. .

Wasn't it great when Lake ran 100m to the swarm and split them up. I know it cost a 50 metre penalty and a goal but it was worth it.

[EasternWest]

Difference being, Riewoldt gets frees for like and softer incidents, and Hall gets none.

I agree 100% with this statement, but it doesn't answer my question. There seems to be anger levelled at North, but is what they did different to what we did? That's what I'm curious about.




No, we are not. The niggle was fine

Was it? Because that seems to be what has annoyed most posters.

everyone froze wanting to see if he would snap.

That's a big indictment, and I agree. The will he/won't he fascination is ridiculous. The glee in the radio commentators voices when it boiled over was palpable.

[EasternWest]

Sorry, I've made a blue with my last few posts.

[AndrewP6]

I agree 100% with this statement, but it doesn't answer my question. There seems to be anger levelled at North, but is what they did different to what we did? That's what I'm curious about.
.


.

What bugs me frankly is when a guy is trying to leave the field, the excessive group swarm.
to have it done in a group is a poor reflection of sportsmanship, disrespectful to the game or I suppose, indication of a club culture gone wrong. Can you imagine us doing that, even to St Nick ? A big cluster f**k of players taunting an individual as he leaves the field and knocking him about when he has his hands in the air?

I thought our discipline was good. Barry will swallow his medicine and I thought the crowd and other players, coach supported him well.
.

^^^^^^^This^^^^

[mjp]

Yes, we are being hypocritical.

The whole 'knock him over whilst he does his boots up' thing...I mean, who cares?

West Coast fans saw the stuff with 4 on 1 vs Hall and just said 'Well, it was 6 on 1 when you blokes did it to Gardiner'.

I agree our discipline was good, but if that is what North want to do, good luck to them. It didn't work, so what is the big deal?

[w3design]

Yes, we are being hypocritical.

The whole 'knock him over whilst he does his boots up' thing...I mean, who cares?

West Coast fans saw the stuff with 4 on 1 vs Hall and just said 'Well, it was 6 on 1 when you blokes did it to Gardiner'.

I agree our discipline was good, but if that is what North want to do, good luck to them. It didn't work, so what is the big deal?

Um..do we have to go back 13 years or so to find an equivalent incident in which we were involved. I've heard people comparing it to the Romero/Libba type style of play. I think that's stretching it if that's our most recent 'crime'.

As to the OP question, Brian's nudge on Riewoldt did not in my view resemble the action of Thompson in knocking over a player who was tying up a shoeleace!

[EasternWest]

Um..do we have to go back 13 years or so to find an equivalent incident in which we were involved. I've heard people comparing it to the Romero/Libba type style of play. I think that's stretching it if that's our most recent 'crime'.

As to the OP question, Brian's nudge on Riewoldt did not in my view resemble the action of Thompson in knocking over a player who was tying up a shoeleace!

No that's true, but I was more referring to the systematic physical harassment of Riewoldt over the entire game. Is it any different to the systematic physical harassment by North towards Hall?

[LostDoggy]

No that's true, but I was more referring to the systematic physical harassment of Riewoldt over the entire game. Is it any different to the systematic physical harassment by North towards Hall?

Yes, because there are f*cking lines. There's physical niggling, which happens every game, and then there's sticking your knee in someone's neck, which at the very least is a free kick.

[mjp]

Um..do we have to go back 13 years or so to find an equivalent incident in which we were involved. I've heard people comparing it to the Romero/Libba type style of play. I think that's stretching it if that's our most recent 'crime'.

As to the OP question, Brian's nudge on Riewoldt did not in my view resemble the action of Thompson in knocking over a player who was tying up a shoeleace!

Who had the broken finger last year that Lake was trying to discreetly 'knock' - I think it was Riewoldt but can't quite remember. Either way, I don't recall any great outcry that we were using unfair tactics or it wasn't in the spirit of the game. Other teams supporters didn't see it the same way.

Knocking over a player who is tying up his boot-lace? It was obviously the straw that broke the camels back because there is no way that action justified the reaction that followed. Really, is it that big a deal? I believe Hall showed admiral restraint for most of the day, but the head-lock was dangerous and I expect he will get weeks for it. The club have come out in support of him, as they should...but I would expect internally they are preparing for tribunal appearances, figuring out the appeal strategy and all that sort of stuff because I suspect they think he will be found guilty.

Our whole reaction about 4 on 1 is an over-reaction as well. The players played the game, kept their mind on the footy and won by 70 points. North focused on the man and lost by 70 points. To be honest, I hope every side we play against takes the same approach and I think the players would be of the same opinion. It is only us as supporters who feel that the North players and coaches and whatever need to be crucified for heinous acts against football and the honor of Barry Hall.

[LostDoggy]

Crossed the line.
No Free Kicks.
St. Nick would've got about 10 frees if he was in Hall's shoes and about 5, 50m penalties

[LostDoggy]

[QUOTE=mjp;154494
Knocking over a player who is tying up his boot-lace? It was obviously the straw that broke the camels back because there is no way that action justified the reaction that followed. Really, is it that big a deal? "
I didn't get to the game but listened to it on the radio. After seeing the footage of this incident, i agree that it was obviously the last straw for Baz, but IMO, I think knocking over a player who is typing up a bootlace, nowhere near the ball, etc., is a pretty low act, and definitely not in the spirit of our game. Yes, there is always niggling, harrassing stuff, and I reckon Baz takes most of that and keeps his cool. This obviously was the thing that just snapped him, and I think he showed considerable restraint in not turning around and punching Thompson. When I saw the other incidents, i.e., the late bump on Gia that obviously knocked him out cold, I thought it told the story of the day, and as another Woofer has posted, what can you expect from a team led by Brad Scott :confused:

[Go_Dogs]

I agree 100% with this statement, but it doesn't answer my question. There seems to be anger levelled at North, but is what they did different to what we did? That's what I'm curious about.

Probably not very different at all, but the outcomes were so hence the anger. Consistency is key.



I agree our discipline was good, but if that is what North want to do, good luck to them. It didn't work, so what is the big deal?

I think you're probably right. It's not really a huge issue, but we need Barry to stay focused on the park, so it's going to be the type of issue that draws a big response from supporters.

[EasternWest]

Probably not very different at all, but the outcomes were so hence the anger. Consistency is key.

I agree with you re consistency. But why is the anger directed at North?

[stefoid]

I agree with the OP, Lake hassling Riewolt was similar to Thompsons tactics. Heavily tagged midfielders cop that sort of thing for the entire game, but I guess they get to run around a bit during general play. I thought a headlock was a pretty good response, though.

The thing which put the whole situation into perspective, however, was that when it was Thompsons turn to stand tough, making front position in subsequent contests, he heard footsteps and coughed up 2 goals to Hall. :D

[strebla]

For me the anger directed at Nth were the punches in the ribs which i saw happen 3 times on the replay while hall had his back to them or was running towars the goalsquare very different to looking a guy in the eye IMO

[LostDoggy]

I agree with you re consistency. But why is the anger directed at North?

Why? Because they went the man, and not the ball. Because they played dirty. Because they were outclassed, and outgunned, and went looking for scalps.

Some North supporters brought up the fact that Libba, Dimma, and Romero were similar back in the day - as if that justifies their actions from the weekend. So if I beat someone up today, can I say it's okay because someone else beat up someone a few years back?!! :rolleyes:

[Go_Dogs]

I agree with you re consistency. But why is the anger directed at North?

Because of the low levels they went to on Saturday.

Yes, other sides often target players, but they had large numbers of players simply running around trying to instigate a fight, trying to prevent a player for exiting the field. I must admit listening to Brayshaw yesterday on TSFS didn't help North's cause much in my eyes....

[Mofra]

I agree with the OP, Lake hassling Riewolt was similar to Thompsons tactics.
I can't say I agree. Lake takes more marks from opposition kicks than anyone else in the competition, and bar one year with Harley has done so for years. Despite putting psysical pressure on the opponent, you can't do that if a "man first, ball second" mentality and Lake has the balance right.
Thomson losing the flight of the ball a number of times suggests to me that he has niggle and nothing else in his bag of tricks. Poor man's Nathan Carroll.

[stefoid]

I can't say I agree. Lake takes more marks from opposition kicks than anyone else in the competition, and bar one year with Harley has done so for years. Despite putting psysical pressure on the opponent, you can't do that if a "man first, ball second" mentality and Lake has the balance right.
Thomson losing the flight of the ball a number of times suggests to me that he has niggle and nothing else in his bag of tricks. Poor man's Nathan Carroll.

Im not saying anything about the way they play footy -- just that Lake continually elbowing riewolt in the back is a similar tactic to what thompson was doing. Maybe if Hall had dived like Riewolt did, he would have got a free too, who knows?

[G-Mo77]

Poor man's Nathan Carroll.

That's really harsh on Carroll. ;)

As I said to a Norf supporter he can't play so he has to do these kind of things and because of this pimple the horrible backline against rules have been enforced and they will be worse now thanks to this.

[bornadog]

Im not saying anything about the way they play footy -- just that Lake continually elbowing riewolt in the back is a similar tactic to what thompson was doing. Maybe if Hall had dived like Riewolt did, he would have got a free too, who knows?

They all throw a little elbow in the back, but Thompson is excessive. Last year he was doing it to Fev so much that it was out of control, A few times Fev whacked his arm, but Thompson kept at him, and Fev got angrier and angrier. At one point he grabbed Thompson and kissed him on the cheek, but Thomson kept elbowing and when Fev retaliated, a free was paid to Thompson.

After that game, umpires were going to keep an eye out and try and stop this from happening and have paid a few free kicks for this sort of thing ie paid them to others except Hall.

[Bulldog4life]

It is only us as supporters who feel that the North players and coaches and whatever need to be crucified for heinous acts against football and the honor of Barry Hall.

You can add Rocket to the list too not just the supporters. I've heard him numerous times on the weekend and he definitely doesn't share your views. And he was constrained.

[Mofra]

You can add Rocket to the list too not just the supporters. I've heard him numerous times on the weekend and he definitely doesn't share your views. And he was constrained.
Ditto fox sports on their on-line Monday wrap. They were scathing of the Roos.

[Bulldog4life]

Ditto fox sports on their on-line Monday wrap. They were scathing of the Roos.

I honestly can't see how you can be anything but. Some of the views on the subject from other Posters are amazing to me.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Yes, we are being hypocritical.

The whole 'knock him over whilst he does his boots up' thing...I mean, who cares?

West Coast fans saw the stuff with 4 on 1 vs Hall and just said 'Well, it was 6 on 1 when you blokes did it to Gardiner'.


Footy has changed a bit since 1997.

In the ensuing brawl - not malee - Matthew Dent landed a haymaker on the point of Jason Ball's chin, and got away with it. Today they would have held a royal commission into it.

Things that were acceptable 13 years ago are not always acceptable now.


I guess my outrage is with the umpires and their inconsistancy. Riewoldt would have recieved at the least 3 or 4 frees for gentle off-the-ball bumps. Judd, Ablett, even Cooney get protected around the ball, why is it any different for Hall?

The rules allow for it. Besides the whole "ball must be within 5 metres" thing, you cannot bump a player "not reasonably expecting contact". The only reason Hall would have been expecting contact was because Thompson did it entire bloody time!

[mjp]

You can add Rocket to the list too not just the supporters. I've heard him numerous times on the weekend and he definitely doesn't share your views. And he was constrained.

Do you really think he is that upset or do you think he is trying to make about the lack of protection/lack of free-kicks given to Hall all year? I think the North antics gave us the perfect vehicle to publicly push a point that I would think the club has been pushing quietly all year - Why doesn't Hall get paid free-kicks that every other player in the AFL would get.

Rockets comments just smacked of an agenda to me. North aren't a contender and we won easily, so we can criticize without fear of any accusation of whinging or sooking. The issue has been going on for months now without any change in the officiating...



I guess my outrage is with the umpires and their inconsistancy. Riewoldt would have recieved at the least 3 or 4 frees for gentle off-the-ball bumps. Judd, Ablett, even Cooney get protected around the ball, why is it any different for Hall?

The rules allow for it. Besides the whole "ball must be within 5 metres" thing, you cannot bump a player "not reasonably expecting contact". The only reason Hall would have been expecting contact was because Thompson did it entire bloody time!

I agree SS, but I just don't feel the outrage at North's tactics. To me the way they played ensured they had no chance to win and I would love to see more of it. The umpires NEVER give Hall a free kick - not when he played for Sydney and certainly not this year - he has received nothing...I think he has got only one kick for the entire season which is ridiculous given the number of marking contests he has been involved in.

I didn't agree Riewoldt should have got the free-kick he got in the prelim and it would be hypocritical of me to turn around and say that Hall should have got the one when he was tying up his laces on Saturday.

[Bulldog4life]

Do you really think he is that upset or do you think he is trying to make about the lack of protection/lack of free-kicks given to Hall all year? I think the North antics gave us the perfect vehicle to publicly push a point that I would think the club has been pushing quietly all year - Why doesn't Hall get paid free-kicks that every other player in the AFL would get.

Rockets comments just smacked of an agenda to me. North aren't a contender and we won easily, so we can criticize without fear of any accusation of whinging or sooking. The issue has been going on for months now without any change in the officiating...


Yes I do think that Rocket is genuinely upset or if not he's a bloody good actor. Might be an agenda to you which you are assuming. Doesn't to me in the least.