Our Field Kicking

[bornadog]

How bad was our kicking last night. I think it cost us the game.

Higgins, cost us a vital goal with a stupid left foot kick.

Cooney, brilliant running and bouncing into our 50, and lets himself and the team down with shocking kicking

Grant, can't kick left or right foot

Boyd - will not be elite until he can carry off a short pass - cost us a goal twice with turnovers

Cross - We know about him, but wasn't too bad last night.

Harbrow - normally a great kick, but last night some kicks were shockers.

What was wrong with our kicking last night? It has me puzzled.

[LostDoggy]

Rushing our disposal. Some of it was of course the maniacal pressure the Bombers mosquito fleet were putting on our ball carrier, but some of is seems to be just wanting to get rid of the ball instead of taking some responsibility with it.

I once read a news report of the 1966 World Cup final between England and West Germany. The report said that the first half hour was nervy, with the ball being moved about like it was a time bomb or hand grenade, with no one wanting the responsibility of having it, in fear of making the first mistake.

Sounds like the way we're playing. No one wants to make a mistake, so everyone is just getting rid of the ball any old way, or just pinging away at the goals. When a player is in form, they have that split second of extra mental space to settle themselves and direct their kick rather than just blindly trusting their technique and blazing away (I hope I'm making sense -- I think those who have played the game may know what I'm talking about). It looks the same to the naked eye except that the result is inconsistent.

[LostDoggy]

How bad was our kicking last night. I think it cost us the game.

Higgins, cost us a vital goal with a stupid left foot kick.

Cooney, brilliant running and bouncing into our 50, and lets himself and the team down with shocking kicking

Grant, can't kick left or right foot

Boyd - will not be elite until he can carry off a short pass - cost us a goal twice with turnovers

Cross - We know about him, but wasn't too bad last night.

Harbrow - normally a great kick, but last night some kicks were shockers.

What was wrong with our kicking last night? It has me puzzled.

I actually think most of his kicks are shockers, majority of the time.

He constantly turns the ball over by foot, he does it week in & week out. A lot of the time he will gather possession & just bomb it forward, either thinking he has players behind or just straight out panics. In turn it creates a turnover, which hurts us on the scoreboard.

I think it is a major problem we have throughout the team, every week it seems to be the same players making basic errors.

[Scorlibo]

Grant, can't kick left or right foot


I agree with your sentiments bornadog, but I wonder how you came to this conclusion? If you had said made a few mistakes by foot last night, then I would have agreed with you, but he has proved to be clean enough by foot over the course of the season.

[Desipura]

I agree with your sentiments bornadog, but I wonder how you came to this conclusion? If you had said made a few mistakes by foot last night, then I would have agreed with you, but he has proved to be clean enough by foot over the course of the season.
I thought Grant gave a nice right foot pass from the outside of his foot only to see Cross drop it in t he forward 50.

[craigsahibee]

We played into Fletcher's hands last night by sitting the ball on the heads of our forwards and not out in front, which was due to Essendon's discipline in plugging the holes in front of our forwards. It was dumb footy by us as Fletcher continuously punched the ball clear directly to the "hole pluggers" who were then able to rebound with the assistance of the spread of Essendon's quicker players and our inbility or desire to go with them.

[LostDoggy]

I could of sworn I was watching Richmond at times.

[Lurgan]

No one wants to make a mistake, so everyone is just getting rid of the ball any old way, or just pinging away at the goals. When a player is in form, they have that split second of extra mental space to settle themselves and direct their kick rather than just blindly trusting their technique and blazing away (I hope I'm making sense -- I think those who have played the game may know what I'm talking about). It looks the same to the naked eye except that the result is inconsistent.

I agree with that, Lantern, about last night anyway. There's a fine line between 'taking the game on' and breaking through, and 'taking the game on' and being caught holding the ball. Having that extra split second is partly a matter of how the other team is pressing but also a question of confidence. We're just a little bit down in confidence (too many perfectionists?) and also a bit down in the number of players carrying injuries. Together, these make our field kicking look bad.

[LostDoggy]

Bit harsh on Grant IMO, he is a young lad backing himself and trying a few different things, looks like he will learn from each mistake he makes. Shows more effort than most of his peers and has cemented his spot in the team.

Higgins disposal friday was an abberation, hopefully that is his worst game ever.

Harbrow is a problem but I think its through the sheer effort he outs in to getting the ball and then making his way through traffic, surely will improve too.

[bornadog]

I agree with your sentiments bornadog, but I wonder how you came to this conclusion? If you had said made a few mistakes by foot last night, then I would have agreed with you, but he has proved to be clean enough by foot over the course of the season.

I should have qualified by saying he can't kick over 40 metres.

[Rocco Jones]

I actually think most of his kicks are shockers, majority of the time.

He constantly turns the ball over by foot, he does it week in & week out. A lot of the time he will gather possession & just bomb it forward, either thinking he has players behind or just straight out panics. In turn it creates a turnover, which hurts us on the scoreboard.

I think it is a major problem we have throughout the team, every week it seems to be the same players making basic errors.

I agree with you that his kicking is ordinary. What more than makes up for it is how he wins it and breaks a line before he randomly kicks it. I am fine with him not being the best kick when on the run and under pressure but why kick it straight down the guts? Might appease calls from fans stuck in the Menzies days but it puts a load of pressure on us if the random kick goes straight to the opposition.

[Mantis]

I should have qualified by saying he can't kick over 40 metres.

That's incorrect.

He can kick the ball 50m.

[chef]

How bad was our kicking last night. I think it cost us the game.

Higgins, cost us a vital goal with a stupid left foot kick.

Cooney, brilliant running and bouncing into our 50, and lets himself and the team down with shocking kicking

Grant, can't kick left or right foot

Boyd - will not be elite until he can carry off a short pass - cost us a goal twice with turnovers

Cross - We know about him, but wasn't too bad last night.

Harbrow - normally a great kick, but last night some kicks were shockers.

What was wrong with our kicking last night? It has me puzzled.

Don't agree with those two.

Grant has been good with his disposal(Griffen, Eagleton and a few others(even Hird) would rather do a banana than kick with their opposite side so I don't see this as a problem). While Harbrow(he's never been a great kick) just throws it on his boot and kicks it as far as he can.

[bornadog]

Don't agree with those two.

While Harbrow(he's never been a great kick) just throws it on his boot and kicks it as far as he can.

Have another look at the game, and Harbrow had some shockers, particularly in the first half.

[chef]

I should have qualified by saying he can't kick over 40 metres.

Yes he can. He can't kick it 60 meters, but not many players can.

[chef]

I should have qualified by saying he can't kick over 40 metres.

Yes he can(I would say his max would be about 50m and this will increase a little when he can build up his legs a bit more and increase his power through the ball). He can't kick it 60 meters ATM, but not many players can.

[bornadog]

Yes he can. He can't kick it 60 meters, but not many players can.

He struggles when he is on the 50 metre line to get it within 10 metres.

[chef]

He struggles when he is on the 50 metre line to get it within 10 metres.

Against the Saints he took a mark just outside the 50 and would have kicked it from about 55 with his kick just falling short(if my memory serves me correctly). ATM his legs are like chopsticks, so when he gets so more meat/power into his legs you would hope this will also increase the distances in his kicks.

[Mofra]

He struggles when he is on the 50 metre line to get it within 10 metres.
Sets shot or play?

It seems like his set shots lack the distance of his field kicking, and his set shots always seem to be kicked alot higher than other players do.

On a different note, Eveitt's field kicking is normally very good, so I expect him to come back this week and offer some improvement to the team.

[stefoid]

Harbrow can kick an excellent shortpass on the run, which is basically our gameplan in a nutshell.

If he has to deliver over 40m he tends to fluff them.

Dont underestimate how hard it is to kick well at full tilt. A lot of players have built a career out of only that skill and nothing else.

[stefoid]

Sort of on the same subject - are we handballing less this year? I seem to remember us running forward in waves of overlapping handball more last year than this year. Am I imagining it?

edit: just checked pro-stats and we kick it on average 228 times and handball on average 172. we lead the league in kicks per game.

Was pleased/puzzled to find that we are right up there in top 5 for contested possies, clearances, first hands, etc... Its all about how we are bringing the ball forward, and in particular entering our f50. we just arent scoring like we used to.

[LostDoggy]

Harbrow can kick an excellent shortpass on the run, which is basically our gameplan in a nutshell.

If he has to deliver over 40m he tends to fluff them.

Dont underestimate how hard it is to kick well at full tilt. A lot of players have built a career out of only that skill and nothing else.

So you play within your limitations and never ever kick blindly down the middle steaming out of defence because it will probably end up in Jobe Watson's hands. It's basic risk management.

[chef]

Harbrow can kick an excellent shortpass on the run, which is basically our gameplan in a nutshell.

If he has to deliver over 40m he tends to fluff them.

Dont underestimate how hard it is to kick well at full tilt. A lot of players have built a career out of only that skill and nothing else.

I would say he's average at this not excellent. He is not an elite kick IMO and should be looking to get the ball into the hands of the players that are. Blindly bombing the ball 40 meters forward does not help us.

[stefoid]

His strength is evasion in heavy traffic - he gets a lot of kicks away where most other players would get wrapped up or cough up a handball to nobody. Sure, he sprays a few clangers, but given the pressure circumstances in which he often disposes of the ball, thats forgivable.

As they say, he is definitely part of the solution, not the problem.

[chef]

His strength is evasion in heavy traffic - he gets a lot of kicks away where most other players would get wrapped up or cough up a handball to nobody. Sure, he sprays a few clangers, but given the pressure circumstances in which he often disposes of the ball, thats forgivable.

As they say, he is definitely part of the solution, not the problem.

If his turnovers in the middle of the ground cost goals is this a problem?

[always right]

Grant's kicking has improved markedly but he reminds me of a bloke called Chris Grant when he first started at the bulldogs. Struggled to kick 40 but ended up an accomplished kick. Just need to be patient as the improvement in Grant this year has been a welcome surprise.

Harbrow is an excellent kick on the run but not under pressure. Runs like a rabbit and just can't maintain his balance when he kicks if there is someone up his clacker. (Don't you love the word....clacker?)

Cooney is normally an oustanding kick. Sometimes however he needs to take the game on and kick the goal himself. Had he done that on Friday it would have provided the team with a huge lift. He needs to realise that no bugger is going to catch him.

[EasternWest]

Grant's kicking has improved markedly but he reminds me of a bloke called Chris Grant when he first started at the bulldogs. Struggled to kick 40 but ended up an accomplished kick. Just need to be patient as the improvement in Grant this year has been a welcome surprise.


Perfect description. Did anyone see that coming?

[always right]

Perfect description. Did anyone see that coming?

Certainly not me. My 18 year old daughter remarked to me during the NAB Cup..."I don't think he's going to make it dad"....and I agreed with her. He's been the 2010 version of Jarred Harbrow and I'm rapt to see his progress. Many have questioned if he's going to hold his place. From what I've seen he's in our best 22 and provides something different. Great upside.

[stefoid]

If his turnovers in the middle of the ground cost goals is this a problem?

Our problem at the moment is goals for, not goals against. We are struggling to score against the better teams. I reckon we need more risk takers, not less.

[Bulldog4life]

Don't agree with those two.

Grant has been good with his disposal(Griffen, Eagleton and a few others(even Hird) would rather do a banana than kick with their opposite side so I don't see this as a problem). While Harbrow(he's never been a great kick) just throws it on his boot and kicks it as far as he can.

I thought that Griff has improved his left foot kicking this year. The goal where he won the game for us against Melbourne was a left foot kick and he kicked another beautiful goal on Friday night on his left side too. I disagree that he prefers kicking a banana rather than use his left side. I would love to see the great C.Grant impart his magnificent left sided kicking knowledge to young J.Grant.

[Sedat]

I would love to see the great C.Grant impart his magnificent left sided kicking knowledge to young J.Grant.
If not Granty, he could always ask Leon Cameron - between those two, you have elite kicking on your non-preferred well and truly covered.

Say we tracked at a standard 75% kicking efficiency on Friday night instead of an abysmal 60-odd. Bearing in mind that many of these kicking errors were under no pressure, and considering that we smashed Essendon in the clearances, it's not a stretch to suggest that we win the game (we'd have kicked 4-5 additional goals in the 3rd qtr from inside 50 entries alone) and there is much less angst out there with supporters and the media alike. Yep, we were absolutely unacceptable in our kicking skill on Friday night, and yes there are a few repeat offenders. But I would be a hell of a lot more worried if we were losing as a result of not getting our hands on the ball and were getting monstered at the stoppages and clearances. That's not to say we have structural problems and specific personnel issues that need refinement. But I'd suggest we will lose 8 of the next 12 games minimum if we track at such a low kicking efficiency level every week from here on in. I'm not sweeping the issue under the carpet but it was so poor and so low that Friday night was more of an anomoly with regard to this issue and should be treated as such.

[chef]

If his turnovers in the middle of the ground cost goals is this a problem?

Anyone else think this is becoming critical(Harbrows kicking turnovers in the middle of the ground) or I am just focusing to much on one part of the problem. I would like to see him start hand passing to someone with better foot skills.

[Mantis]

Anyone else think this is becoming critical (Harbrows kicking turnovers in the middle of the ground) or I am just focusing to much on one part of the problem. I would to see him start hand passing to someone with better foot skills.

Who might that be? Gilbee is one, who else?

[chef]

Who might that be? Gilbee is one, who else?

3/4's of the team would have better foot skills than Harbrow.

[Mantis]

3/4's of the team would have better foot skills than Harbrow.

Bullshit.

Addison - NO.
Morris - NO.
Cross - NO.
Boyd - NO.
Hudson - NO.
Minson - NO.
Eagleton - NO.

Do you want me to continus as there is still a few more to name?

[chef]

Bullshit.

Addison - NO.
Morris - NO.
Cross - NO.
Boyd - NO.
Hudson - NO.
Minson - NO.
Eagleton - NO.

Do you want me to continus as there is still a few more to name?



He needs to know his limitations. Just throwing the ball on your foot and kicking it as far as you can is just not good enough.(maybe 3/4's was an overestimation:o)

[Greystache]

As an extension to this, what has happened to our goal kicking from general play? 2-3 years ago we were breaking defensive floods apart with running goals from on or outside 50m, but these days almost no one is prepared to have a shot unless they're within 25 metres, and we're constantly trying low percentage passes to to outnumbered players 20m out.

Is it that the leadership group are making such a strong stance on team based football that players are scared of the repercussions of going for goal rather than looking for a team mate, or are the players really down on confidence when it comes to kicking goals on the run?

[LostDoggy]

Bullshit.

Addison - NO.
Morris - NO.
Cross - NO.
Boyd - NO.
Hudson - NO.
Minson - NO.
Eagleton - NO.

Do you want me to continus as there is still a few more to name?

First of all, the 3/4 call was a bit of an exaggeration, but:

Comparing a short running player to two big ruckmen is a bit rich, it'd be outrageous if he did have worse skills than them. Ok, he's better than Huddo and Minson...big achievement :rolleyes:

I believe Eagleton is a more reliable kick than Harbrow, but he's far from perfect too. This doesn't mean I like Eagleton as a player more than Harbrow, but kicking has been one of Eagleton's strengths. I realise this is an Eagleton bashing board, but seriously, he's not a bad kick.

He may be a better kick than Morris, but at least Morris knows his limitations and barely stuffs up with his kicks. There's no point 'taking the game on' and all that, if you're going to erase the previous good passage of play and turn it straight over. You have to pick your battles.

When Harbrow stuffs up, he's shocking, he rushes his kicks to nowhere in particular...sure, he can do some flashy stuff that looks nice, but really, he's not that good. He's improved from where he's been, but I guess with all this GC stuff going on, we can reasonably expect more than he's given us the past couple of weeks.

[Mantis]

First of all, the 3/4 call was a bit of an exaggeration, but:

Comparing a short running player to two big ruckmen is a bit rich, it'd be outrageous if he did have worse skills than them. Ok, he's better than Huddo and Minson...big achievement :rolleyes:

I believe Eagleton is a more reliable kick than Harbrow, but he's far from perfect too. This doesn't mean I like Eagleton as a player more than Harbrow, but kicking has been one of Eagleton's strengths. I realise this is an Eagleton bashing board, but seriously, he's not a bad kick.

He may be a better kick than Morris, but at least Morris knows his limitations and barely stuffs up with his kicks. There's no point 'taking the game on' and all that, if you're going to erase the previous good passage of play and turn it straight over. You have to pick your battles.

When Harbrow stuffs up, he's shocking, he rushes his kicks to nowhere in particular...sure, he can do some flashy stuff that looks nice, but really, he's not that good. He's improved from where he's been, but I guess with all this GC stuff going on, we can reasonably expect more than he's given us the past couple of weeks.

I agree with much of that dg. :)

Eagleton - the bolded word is the main focus on Eagleton. His kicking was one of his strengths, but it isn't anymore. Eagleton bashing board - Please.

Morris - as with Crossy Dale knows his limitations and plays accordingly (but as per post on Harbrow we need more)

Harbrow - we have no-one in our back half able to take the game on with run and carry bar Harbrow. Addison doesn't, Morris doesn't, Picken when down there doesn't Williams doesn't, etc... Other teams are now a wake up and are putting extra pressure on him as they no he is the player we will use to provide dash from behind the ball. We need others to help him out a little more such that we don't become so reliant on Harbrow. Adding Hargrave and perhaps Wood to the back half may help, but kicking under pressure isn't their great strengths either.

[Ozza]

I think some posters are being a little harsh on Harbrow's kicking.

Yes he makes some errors. But by the same token - he generally takes the lion share of the pressure kicks - which are both kicks in - and from deep in defence. He rarely makes an error in either situation - and I can cop the occasional error when he does stream out of defence. Skill errors are a part of the game (and part of the players being human!) - decision errors are what frustrates me - and generally Harbrow's decisions are pretty good.

[Ozza]

I agree with much of that dg. :)

Eagleton - the bolded word is the main focus on Eagleton. His kicking was one of his strengths, but it isn't anymore. Eagleton bashing board - Please.

Morris - as with Crossy Dale knows his limitations and plays accordingly (but as per post on Harbrow we need more)

Harbrow - we have no-one in our back half able to take the game on with run and carry bar Harbrow. Addison doesn't, Morris doesn't, Picken when down there doesn't Williams doesn't, etc... Other teams are now a wake up and are putting extra pressure on him as they no he is the player we will use to provide dash from behind the ball. We need others to help him out a little more such that we don't become so reliant on Harbrow. Adding Hargrave and perhaps Wood to the back half may help, but kicking under pressure isn't their great strengths either.

To add to this - often on the footy field, you are only as good as the options ahead of you make it. The half forwards were ordinary yesterday and last week - and without them working hard to provide an option, when Harbrow is dashing out of defence his kick becomes tougher.

Its harder to hit up half forwards when Bob Murphy is not there taking 8-10 grabs every week and working his opponent over. Thats why Bob is so important.

[LostDoggy]

I agree with much of that dg. :)

Eagleton - the bolded word is the main focus on Eagleton. His kicking was one of his strengths, but it isn't anymore. Eagleton bashing board - Please.

Morris - as with Crossy Dale knows his limitations and plays accordingly (but as per post on Harbrow we need more)

Harbrow - we have no-one in our back half able to take the game on with run and carry bar Harbrow. Addison doesn't, Morris doesn't, Picken when down there doesn't Williams doesn't, etc... Other teams are now a wake up and are putting extra pressure on him as they no he is the player we will use to provide dash from behind the ball. We need others to help him out a little more such that we don't become so reliant on Harbrow. Adding Hargrave and perhaps Wood to the back half may help, but kicking under pressure isn't their great strengths either.

Yeah fair calls, I'm just a bit emotional after all of this build up...I've just pulled out my Round 20 2006 v Adelaide tape...:o It might just make it worse though.

As far as Eagleton goes, I agree he's not what he used to be, but I don't think he gets the respect he deserves either. I've never been a big fan of his, but I think he has a few credit points up his sleeve before we go calling for his retirement. I'd be interested to see his kicking efficiency stats over 2010 compared to his career.

I guess I just see Gilbee as taking as many 'pressure kicks' as Harbrow does and doing it very well for the most part. In fairness, he does have more experience than Harbrow, but he's always had a good kick on him. I respect Harbrow for how he puts his head over the ball and backs himself, but if he wants to be elite he's got to get some composure to match it...either that or find someone else to share the load with. Everitt? I don't know, but something needs to happen...and fairly quickly would be nice.

As Ozza raised, our leads are really awful. One of the things I noticed most from last night was Collingwood's constant running around to make leads. It happened at every kick out and they were easily let outside of our forward half...yet when we had the ball, we had no options. Really frustrating.

[LostDoggy]

As Ozza raised, our leads are really awful. One of the things I noticed most from last night was Collingwood's constant running around to make leads. It happened at every kick out and they were easily let outside of our forward half...yet when we had the ball, we had no options. Really frustrating.

This is a funny one, and happens quite a bit with certain teams. I don't understand how elite players in a sport where space is your currency can just stand still (or jog lazily) from a dead ball situation (like a kick in). Apart from the fact that teams should have a million set plays, so if no one is moving it means something has fallen down somewhere, but even so, a players' natural instinct is to run around to get space on your opponent, so if movement has stopped, does this mean that the team has given up, or is everyone just buggered, or handing off responsibility and hoping that someone else will step up and make a play? I don't really understand this one.

[chef]

This is a funny one, and happens quite a bit with certain teams. I don't understand how elite players in a sport where space is your currency can just stand still (or jog lazily) from a dead ball situation (like a kick in). Apart from the fact that teams should have a million set plays, so if no one is moving it means something has fallen down somewhere, but even so, a players' natural instinct is to run around to get space on your opponent, so if movement has stopped, does this mean that the team has given up, or is everyone just buggered, or handing off responsibility and hoping that someone else will step up and make a play? I don't really understand this one.

At one stage yesterday we had the ball in the back pocket and there would have been at least 6 players level or behind the ball(within 5-10 meters) just standing there not moving:confused: