Beasley Vs Hall

[becmatty]

Week 1: Beasley Vs Hall

We all put our faith in the 22 players who represent the Doggies each week, but would they be selected for their position if they were pitted against Bulldog stars of yesteryear?

Each week, I will match two similar players against each other and leave it to our WOOFers to argue who would get the nod.

To kick off, I have selected Barry Hall and Simon Beasley to battle it out for the full forward position. This is not a selection for the contribution to our club alone, but an overall comparison for their entire careers, considering their achievements and attributes...

With Simon being selected in the club's Hall of Fame this week, many might argue that he is a certainty for the spot. He booted 12 goals on three occassions, and 11 and 10 in separate matches also. He snagged seven in the 1985 Semi Final to help almost propell Footscray into the Grand Final, was the 1985 Coleman Medalist, seven-time club leading goal kicker (1982-1988), Bulldog Team of the Century Full Forward and the club's all-time leading goal kicker. A one-club champion, he was a Bulldog, through and through. So how could you possibly mount a case for Hall to take his spot?...

Barry is a premiership captain of course (with Sydney), has more goals to his name and has stood the test of time longer than The Pieman. He currently leads the Doggies' goal kicking this season at aged 33 and is a hot tip for the Coleman medal. Renowned as one of the tougest, most fearsome figures to have ever played the game, he has smashed opposition defences for a remarkable 15 season, topped the Swans goal kicking honours on seven occassions (2002-2008) and twice at St Kilda (1999 & 2001), was the Swans' 2004 Best and Fairest and three-time All-Australian. His versitility to also play at CHF, hulking strength and explosive pace has elevated him to cult-status at Whitten Oval.

Simon Beasley: 154 Games, 575 Goals (Average 3.73 goals per game)
Barry Hall: 260 Games, 644 Goals (average 2.48 per game)

So who is your choice?

[Hotdog60]

I would lean toward Hall, only because the game has changed a lot since Simon played.
Simon was reasonable good overhead and extremely good on the lead but you also need to be more defensive nowadays and Barry has better strength and aggression(when controlled:))

We just need Barry to come out and get some double figures.

[chef]

I would choose Beasley, because he was a boyhood idol of mine and he's a Bulldog through and through. Simon was a better full forward IMO, while Hall spent the majority of his time as a CHF. Both of these guys in the one side would be awesome.

[ledge]

Looking at the figures its Beasley, I believe I read somewhere he kicked the most goals in the AFL over a 10 year span.
He wasnt the best when the ball hit the ground and was dropped when it was wet.
If Simon had played another 100 games he would have kicked 300 more goals than Hall.

I actually thought Barry would have been better by a mile and if you look at success he is.
Has Barry played all his career at fullforward though? I think he played CHF for a while making goals harder to come by.
If you put both together i dont think Beasley would compete with his toughness either.

Interesting couple Becmatty, great choice.

[Mantis]

Looking at the figures its Beasley, I believe I read somewhere he kicked the most goals in the AFL over a 10 year span.


He kicked the most goals of any of player thru the 1980's.

[Mofra]

You have to make adjustments for the era - Beasley was a dominant FF for his time, and Hall spent the majority of his career at CHF.
Given we are playing Hall at FF, you have to judge them on a FF vs FF basis - in that respect, I'm leaning towards the Pieman.

[Remi Moses]

Blimey talk about chalk and cheese!! Beasley was very quick on the lead and an outstanding kick Barry has him covered for ground skills.I'd take Simon but it would have been interesting how Beasley would have gone in the current era with the clogged up space.The player I think who'd have been a star in this era would have been E.J Junior with those immaculate kicking skills.

[Hotdog60]

I picked Hall, taking that the thread was taking things at the current times. If you put them in their own time slots I would pick Simon.

[LostDoggy]

I think Welsh played a similar game to Beasley although a little shorter and slower for mine. I think that Hall plays a lot higher than Simon so hard to compare because historically they play different positions. I think Simon could have played in today's game no problem. Quick, Good lead, Great hands, Great kick. Halls is different Good lead, OK hands, Good Kick, and Fear Factor. To hard to pick for me. But not being a commentator and sitting on the fence I will pick the true blood in the Pie Man.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I think Welsh played a similar game to Beasley although a little shorter and slower for mine. I think that Hall plays a lot higher than Simon so hard to compare because historically they play different positions. I think Simon could have played in today's game no problem. Quick, Good lead, Great hands, Great kick. Halls is different Good lead, OK hands, Good Kick, and Fear Factor. To hard to pick for me. But not being a commentator and sitting on the fence I will pick the true blood in the Pie Man.

Beasley would be a star in today's game because he was such a good lead, was quick and was very tall. The exact combination that the hands-in-the-back and chopping-the-arms rules make undefendable.

[Doc26]

Simon took pride of place in the 80s on the back of my duffle coat so is very hard to remove bias. As Sockeye mentions was a strong lead up mark and with it a beautiful kick. If choosing based on Barry's achievements then I go with Barry simply because he's managed to hold a cup aloft as premiership captain. This aside it's The Pieman.

[azabob]

. If choosing based on Barry's achievements then I go with Barry simply because he's managed to hold a cup aloft as premiership captain. This aside it's The Pieman.

This comment in general frustrates me no end.

Lets use Chris Grant as an example. He is never spoken in the same breath by the media or general footy public as players like Carey or J Brown or G Jakovich purely because he has never played in a winning grand final. Is this Chris Grants fault?

Im sick of players reputations being enhanced because they were fortunate enough to be in a team which managed to win the grand final in any given year.

[ledge]

I understand your point Bob but he was also captain at the time, which I think adds to an achievement Pieman never had.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Being a premiership player just means they were lucky enough to play in the same team as other good player.

Last night they appointed a legend who I don't think ever played in a final.

[lemmon]

I never had the opportunity to see Beasley play so don't take this as a vote Bec but on stats alone that is an outstanding goal per game average from Simon.

[LostDoggy]

I think it's hard to compare these two - my memories of Simon are a quick player on the lead, and a good safe mark. Don't recall him ever chasing down an opponent (please correct me if I am wrong here). From that aspect, I think Baz' overall strength and his ability to exert defensive forward pressure have him winning my vote!

[Rocco Jones]

Beasley would be a star in today's game because he was such a good lead, was quick and was very tall. The exact combination that the hands-in-the-back and chopping-the-arms rules make undefendable.

Great points. Added to that, I agree with Mofra's call that you also have to adjust to an era, otherwise no one/not many players from the 50s would get a game today which is crap. If Beasley played today he would have had a more professional traing program and the like. He would have been a star.


Being a premiership player just means they were lucky enough to play in the same team as other good player.

Last night they appointed a legend who I don't think ever played in a final.

I totally agree there. Being part of a premiership side is the number 1 way to get overrated as a player.

[azabob]

I think it's hard to compare these two - my memories of Simon are a quick player on the lead, and a good safe mark. Don't recall him ever chasing down an opponent (please correct me if I am wrong here). From that aspect, I think Baz' overall strength and his ability to exert defensive forward pressure have him winning my vote!

Your point on defensive pressure is a good one but in Beasley's defence not sure any forward in the eighties would've tackled from behind etc like now.

[bornadog]

I loved the Pieman and he was a fantastic old fashion FF, however, once the ball hit the ground you can forget him as he just wasn't that sort of player. He was a great Mark and great on the lead. I vote the Pieman.

In the Semi final that BecMatty mentions, Simon had 8 kicks, 7 marks, 7 goals and 1 handball, thats the sort of player he was.

[KT31]

The Pie Man for me, in todays team he would kick truck loads.
The most prolific goal kicker in the period he played.
Great lead and strong mark (even if a few did rebound off the noggin).

[becmatty]

So far Beasley leads 9 votes to 2, with a few fence sitters...

[LostDoggy]

Your point on defensive pressure is a good one but in Beasley's defence not sure any forward in the eighties would've tackled from behind etc like now.

Yes, I totally agree Bob, that's why it's just so hard and possibly unfair to compare the two of them. Such a different game now, and obviously, we have full time professional footballers now, so many variables between the two.

Perhaps we should just agree that the two of them were/are outstanding forwards of their time?

[becmatty]

Great players adapt, Magic. I believe Beaza and Bazza would have been stars in either era.

Teams too have to adjust to differnt type of forwards - (eg: the 2009 Bulldogs forward structure vs 2010) and I'm sure the team of 1985 would not have had a problem with Barry crashing through the packs, just the same as Griffen and Gilbee would donate their match payments to have someone of Simon's callibre on a fast lead...

[craigsahibee]

Blimey talk about chalk and cheese!! Beasley was very quick on the lead and an outstanding kick Barry has him covered for ground skills.I'd take Simon but it would have been interesting how Beasley would have gone in the current era with the clogged up space.The player I think who'd have been a star in this era would have been E.J Junior with those immaculate kicking skills.

I will abstain from the vote but RM makes a great point. Can you imagine EJ Jnr with today's training and endurance coming off the half bank flank or rotating through the mid-field. The game would have evolved earlier as a result of the partnership between EJ and SB. The curtain raiser to the Ash Wednesday fund raise put an end to that.:(

[Bumper Bulldogs]

The Pie Man for me, in todays team he would kick truck loads.
The most prolific goal kicker in the period he played.
Great lead and strong mark (even if a few did rebound off the noggin).

Agree and think with the midfield now and game set ups he would lick 150 in a season, but the real reason i would pick the pieman is "that grab at the whitten over that sunk Collingwood"

[LostDoggy]

Pieman no question.

[becmatty]

Pieman looks to have the support from most WOOFers, though I wonder if it will be the same if we were to be 2010 premiers and Big Barry kicks a bag in the Grand Final...?

[Desipura]

Pieman looks to have the support from most WOOFers, though I wonder if it will be the same if we were to be 2010 premiers and Big Barry kicks a bag in the Grand Final...?
Dont take offence however I think this is a pointless exercise. Hall has been with us for 5 minutes whereas Pieman played with us some 20 years ago. How can you compare the 2?

[Mofra]

Dont take offence however I think this is a pointless exercise. Hall has been with us for 5 minutes whereas Pieman played with us some 20 years ago. How can you compare the 2?
So you can never compare players who aren't playing for the same club either?

[Desipura]

So you can never compare players who aren't playing for the same club either?
You can, however Hall has played 100 games more than Pieman. Very different players IMHO. One is more physical than the other.

[SPower]

Easy fixed:-

Hf Line Templeton Hall Quinlan
FF Simon "the Pieman" Beasley

[LostDoggy]

Beasa for me team of the century FF best kick at goal dogs have ever had

[FrediKanoute]

Great players adapt, Magic. I believe Beaza and Bazza would have been stars in either era.

Teams too have to adjust to differnt type of forwards - (eg: the 2009 Bulldogs forward structure vs 2010) and I'm sure the team of 1985 would not have had a problem with Barry crashing through the packs, just the same as Griffen and Gilbee would donate their match payments to have someone of Simon's callibre on a fast lead...

What scares me is how good Bazza would have been if he'd played in Beaza's era.....imagine a tough hard as naios guy ike Barry terrorising defences with no video umpire, legitimately able to bump players and less umps on the field.......

[KT31]

What scares me is how good Bazza would have been if he'd played in Beaza's era.....imagine a tough hard as naios guy ike Barry terrorising defences with no video umpire, legitimately able to bump players and less umps on the field.......

What scares me is how good we could have been if we had picked up Bazza instead of Jacovitch.:(

[becmatty]

From memory, Jackovich slipped a disc in his back while getting out of his car at the Western Oval on his way to training. The man was a liability.

He was a risk that didn't pay off - let's hope the Bazza 'gamble' continues to go as well as it has, and if his body is right in September, he will be a major figure in determining whether the drought is broken...

[mighty_west]

From memory, Jackovich slipped a disc in his back while getting out of his car at the Western Oval on his way to training. The man was a liability.



He dropped his bag of donuts, and tried to catch before hitting the ground.