Round 14 - WOOF Selection Table

[becmatty]

Great to go into the break on the back of a couple of big wins.

The break comes at a good time to freshen up and we look set to have close to a full list to choose from in the coming weeks.

I expect Higgins and Ward to come in for Round 14 against the Hawks.

This will put the spotlight on Hill and Stack who need to go back and work on their intesity and defensive pressure.

Expect Moles, Williams, Everitt...AND Akermanis to be the others who will come into contention in the next month...

The side to beat Hawthorn:

B:Harbrow Morris Hargreave
HB:Gilbee Lake Murphy
C:Griffen Boyd Ward
HF:Giansiracusa Grant Higgins
F:Johnson Hall Hahn
Foll:Hudson Cross Cooney
Int:Picken Minson Eagleton Wood
Emerg: Everitt Hill Callan

[The Bulldogs Bite]

At an early stage;

OUT: Hill, Stack
IN: Ward, Reid

Hill has been extremely disappointing lately and was dreadful today. Stack kicked a couple of goals but has no physical presence and against the better sides, he becomes a liability. He's got a few games under his belt which is good - but it's time go back. Ward and Reid have had a few weeks at Williamstown and both have done pretty well.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm not convinced Higgins will be ready in 2 weeks time.

For me.

Out Stack, Hill
In: Ward, Everitt.

[becmatty]

Giansiracusa speaking on radio after the game is hopeful that Higgo will be back. So am I.

[bornadog]

Out: Stack, Eagelton

In: Ward, Everitt

[becmatty]

Out: Stack, Eagelton

In: Ward, Everitt

Aside from your hatred of Eagleton, how would you justify Hill retaining his place ahead of the bald one?

[bornadog]

Aside from your hatred of Eagleton, how would you justify Hill retaining his place ahead of the bald one?

I have never hated Eagle, I think you have me mixed up with another poster:eek:

I don't think Hill did enough, but I can't see any one replacing him, unless Higgins is ready.

[The Coon Dog]

I think Williams has to come back against Hawthorn, along with Ward.

Hill & Stack to make way.

If Higgins is fit he plays. Eagleton to miss, but I wouldn't play Higgins unless he was 100%.

[Hotdog60]

I think Williams has to come back against Hawthorn, along with Ward.

Hill & Stack to make way.

If Higgins is fit he plays. Eagleton to miss, but I wouldn't play Higgins unless he was 100%.

Good call, if it's anything like the last time it will be another bruiser and will need everyone to be 100%.

[becmatty]

I have never hated Eagle, I think you have me mixed up with another poster:eek:

I don't think Hill did enough, but I can't see any one replacing him, unless Higgins is ready.

Haha, yep, everyone on here seems to have it in for Eagleton, so I assumed you were another Bald Basher.

Still, my question stands though bornadog - What is your rationale in retaining Hill ahead of Eagleton? Surely on the past two perfomances, Hill cannon hold his place?

What did Eagleton do that was so wrong today? I thought he was very servicable.

[LostDoggy]

Out: Hill,Stack,Eagleton,wood?
In: Higgins,Ward,Williams,Aker

Might have to trade everitt at the end of the year because otherwise he would leave because he cant get in the team

[becmatty]

I think Williams has to come back against Hawthorn, along with Ward.

Hill & Stack to make way.

If Higgins is fit he plays. Eagleton to miss, but I wouldn't play Higgins unless he was 100%.

I know that Williams had a good match against Buddy once upon a time, but in current form Buddy might just rip Williams apart. I say put Lake on Buddy - two stars in fine form - it would be an awesome match up and great to watch.

Williams not in the top 22 for mine (and perhaps not fit). If we need another tall mobile option, I'd have Everitt ahead of him.

[choconmientay]

Out: Hill,Stack,Eagleton,wood?
In: Higgins,Ward,Williams,Aker

Might have to trade everitt at the end of the year because otherwise he would leave because he cant get in the team

Why would you drop Wood? He played 2 solid games and did some nice thing from the back line. I think and hope he will keep his spot.

IMO Eagleton did just enough for the MC to retain him in the team :)

[becmatty]

Out: Hill,Stack,Eagleton,wood?
In: Higgins,Ward,Williams,Aker

Might have to trade everitt at the end of the year because otherwise he would leave because he cant get in the team

Four changes to a side that has won its past two matches by 10 goals?!? Owch.

Firstly, Aker is returning through Williamstown and it won't be for another match or so.

Secondly, Wood was very assured seems a composed player. We need to expose him to tough matches like Hawthorn, as he could be an extra string to our bow if required in September. The kid can play.

And, another call for Eagleton's head? Whoa, give the bloke a break!...

[chef]

I know that Williams had a good match against Buddy once upon a time, but in current form Buddy might just rip Williams apart. I say put Lake on Buddy - two stars in fine form - it would be an awesome match up and great to watch.
Williams not in the top 22 for mine (and perhaps not fit). If we need another tall mobile option, I'd have Everitt ahead of him.

Buddy is playing more through the middle at the moment and Lake wouldn't be able to keep up with him(endurance wise not speed). With Williams back in the side it allows Lake to zone off when Buddy leaves the forward line and Tom can then go with him, well that's what I would do anyway.

[chef]

In Ward and Williams
Out Stack and Eagleton

[hujsh]

Four changes to a side that has won its past two matches by 10 goals?!? Owch.

Don't forget who against though. The two teams with the worst form in the league. This does not make up for poor performances against quality opposition as we should be winning by those margins against these teams.

[becmatty]

Don't forget who against though. The two teams with the worst form in the league. This does not make up for poor performances against quality opposition as we should be winning by those margins against these teams.

This seems to be a non-statement. "We should be winning by those margins" is exactly what we achieved. so, if we are doing what we should be doing, why would you support four changes to the side??

[hujsh]

This seems to be a non-statement. "We should be winning by those margins" is exactly what we achieved. so, if we are doing what we should be doing, why would you support four changes to the side??

We've achieved par for the course, not performed brilliantly. This does not save Hill, Stack, Hahn and Eagle after poor performances against good sides. So if Ward, Williams, Higgins Reid etc are fit and available then some average performances against poor sides by people who regularly let the club down in big games should not keep them out of the team.

[LostDoggy]

In: Ward Williams
Out: Stack Hill

Higgins to come back through Williamstown.
Everitt - i want to have him back in, but i cant see whose place he would take.

[GVGjr]

This seems to be a non-statement. "We should be winning by those margins" is exactly what we achieved. so, if we are doing what we should be doing, why would you support four changes to the side??

Because there is a view that further improvement in the side is still possible and bringing in some other options will support that.
Hargrave and Johnson did well so there is nothing to suggest that if we add some others like Ward that we won't improve a bit more.

[bornadog]

Because there is a view that further improvement in the side is still possible and bringing in some other options will support that.
Hargrave and Johnson did well so there is nothing to suggest that if we add some others like Ward that we won't improve a bit more.

For mine, Ward and Williams need to come in at some stage, followed by Higgins.

Some tough decisions to be made over the next few weeks.

[becmatty]

Agreed that we can and will improve further. But calling for four changes is ridiculous and will not happen.

Ward and Higgins are in our best 18 on any given day and if fit will both be straight in. Hill and Stack will surely make way for them.

The MC will not consider more than two changes and so the next players in line (Everitt, Williams, Moles, Reid, Addison, Roughhead) will simply have to keep playing well and hope that an opportunity comes up for them.

[bornadog]

Still, my question stands though bornadog - What is your rationale in retaining Hill ahead of Eagleton? Surely on the past two perfomances, Hill cannon hold his place?

What did Eagleton do that was so wrong today? I thought he was very servicable.

I thought Hill was very poor today and for three quarters Eagle was as well. Eagle is a real front runner and came good in the last quarter, however, because we are now playing well I would rather punt on younger players such as Hill.

[hujsh]

Agreed that we can and will improve further. But calling for four changes is ridiculous and will not happen.


Won't happen based on previous form but is far from ridiculous.




The MC will not consider more than two changes and so the next players in line (Everitt, Williams, Moles, Reid, Addison, Roughhead) will simply have to keep playing well and hope that an opportunity comes up for them.

Williams appears to be in the MC's best 22 as does Ward and Higgins so 3 changes is certainly not out of the question. I would also think Reid is ahead of Stack even if Stack is currently in the AFL team based on immediate need.

[Mofra]

I would also think Reid is ahead of Stack even if Stack is currently in the AFL team based on immediate need.
They are completely different players though, so a forward would have to come in for Stack. Ward can play on the HF line at least, given his finishing skills.

[Rocco Jones]

They are completely different players though, so a forward would have to come in for Stack. Ward can play on the HF line at least, given his finishing skills.

Why would a forward 'have' to come in for Stack?

For the Eagles game we replaced a midfielder and a defender with a forward and a defender. Aren't Moles and Johnson 'completely different players'?. Ward can be rotated through midfield freeing up players to spend more time forward.

[Mantis]

Haha, yep, everyone on here seems to have it in for Eagleton, so I assumed you were another Bald Basher.

Still, my question stands though bornadog - What is your rationale in retaining Hill ahead of Eagleton? Surely on the past two perfomances, Hill cannon hold his place?

What did Eagleton do that was so wrong today? I thought he was very servicable.

Who are all these "Eagleton bashers" you talk of?

You keep accusing all & sundry of bashing him, but you never seem to be able to nail down the offenders.

Either pick the right people or zip it up.

[Rocco Jones]

I think Williams has to come back against Hawthorn, along with Ward.

Hill & Stack to make way.

If Higgins is fit he plays. Eagleton to miss, but I wouldn't play Higgins unless he was 100%.

Pretty much what I was going to post.

My only concern is if Higgins doesn't come up we would be probably light on for forwards without Stack and Hill, so perhaps I would play one of them ahead of Eagle. Thing is there is no point playing an extra forward who offers you very little value just for the sake of playing a forward.

[boydogs]

Agreed that we can and will improve further. But calling for four changes is ridiculous and will not happen.

4 changes is not a regular occurrence for us, but I think it could happen this week. We will have Ward, Reid, Higgins and Williams coming back from injury, so it would be arguably 4 players in our starting 18 coming back into the side, as opposed to shuffling the 19th-22nd players based on form, team balance and the opposition


Ward and Higgins are in our best 18 on any given day and if fit will both be straight in. Hill and Stack will surely make way for them.

Agreed on Ward & Higgins. I think Stack will go, he isn't contributing as much as we need him to, but I would keep Hill and drop Hahn


The MC will not consider more than two changes and so the next players in line (Everitt, Williams, Moles, Reid, Addison, Roughhead) will simply have to keep playing well and hope that an opportunity comes up for them.

Williams and Reid are returning from injury, so I think the equation is slightly different for them

My changes would be -

In: Ward, Reid, Higgins, Williams
Out: Stack, Hahn, Eagleton, Wood

Stack is simply not doing enough at this stage, his game doesn't seem to be developing being given an extended run in the AFL either which has been disappointing. Hopefully he can improve back at Williamstown, but he is too much of a liability at the moment in the senior side

Eagle was good today on a big ground against weak opposition, but his attacking weapons are not what they used to be and he will not be able to use them as much in a tighter game. He can well and truly go missing against sides with good defensive pressure, as his own defensive game is not great.

Hahn has struggled for a while, and I think with Johnno back and Lake able to be switched forward we don't need him structurally any longer, and his contribution aside from this has not been enough. The decline in his bullocking, chasing and tackling has been a big part of our forward line defensive pressure declining IMO.

Wood has done OK for a young bloke but he is probably the most expendable at the moment in defense for us to bring Williams back against Buddy

[becmatty]

Who are all these "Eagleton bashers" you talk of?

You keep accusing all & sundry of bashing him, but you never seem to be able to nail down the offenders.

Either pick the right people or zip it up.

Thanks for the advice Mantis, but I think I'll carry on speaking if that is okay with you.

I apologised for wrongly assuming someone hated Eagleton, if you don't mind.

As for the Eaglton bashing, take a look through the archives and you will find that many posters are highly critical of him with constant and repetitive calls for his axing. The 'offenders' names are listed above their postings and i am sure you have the detective skills to work this one out mate.

[GVGjr]

Agreed that we can and will improve further. But calling for four changes is ridiculous and will not happen.

Ward and Higgins are in our best 18 on any given day and if fit will both be straight in. Hill and Stack will surely make way for them.

The MC will not consider more than two changes and so the next players in line (Everitt, Williams, Moles, Reid, Addison, Roughhead) will simply have to keep playing well and hope that an opportunity comes up for them.

It was very important to make some changes last week and get a game into Johnson (especially) and Hargrave and I suspect that we will need to make a couple of more changes for the game against the Hawks.

I like TCD's suggestion of Williams (if fit enough) and Ward coming in against the Hawks and in the short term Higgins will also be added.

[LostDoggy]

Out: Eagleton, Hill, Stack
In: Anyone who's not Eagleton, Hill, Stack

[becmatty]

Out: Eagleton, Hill, Stack
In: Anyone who's not Eagleton, Hill, Stack

So you ommitted Hill and Stack only to replace them with Stack and Hill.

[Rocco Jones]

I know that Williams had a good match against Buddy once upon a time, but in current form Buddy might just rip Williams apart. I say put Lake on Buddy - two stars in fine form - it would be an awesome match up and great to watch.


We don't have to play Williams on Buddy. I would definitely play Lake on Buddy. Williams on Roughead would free up Morris to play on a smaller opponent.

If Cyril spends most of his time forward again I wouldn't mind possibly having Morris on him freeing up Picken to play as a defensive forward on Hodge. I know Gia has done well in the role but I see him as more of a clever type rather than the physical type suited to play on Hodge. It could free up Gia a bit and let him concentrate on his own game which I think is really important considering his record in big games. He could help pick up the forward line time to replace Stack and/or Hill.

Thing is Picken is probably more suited to playing on Cyril than Morris.

[Mantis]

If Cyril spends most of his time forward again I wouldn't mind possibly having Morris on him freeing up Picken to play as a defensive forward on Hodge. I know Gia has done well in the role but I see him as more of a clever type rather than the physical type suited to play on Hodge. It could free up Gia a bit and let him concentrate on his own game which I think is really important considering his record in big games. He could help pick up the forward line time to replace Stack and/or Hill.

Thing is Picken is probably more suited to playing on Cyril than Morris.

You obviously having watched much of Hawthorn lately as Hodge is now playing in the midfield.

[Rocco Jones]

You obviously having watched much of Hawthorn lately as Hodge is now playing in the midfield.

Ahh yep, think I went into auto-pilot there. I haven't watched the Hawks for awhile but know he is in the midfield.

[AndrewP6]

So you ommitted Hill and Stack only to replace them with Stack and Hill.


Out: Eagleton, Hill, Stack
In: Anyone who's not Eagleton, Hill, Stack

Methinks this bit clarifies it all...

[Before I Die]

Out: Hill,Stack,Eagleton,wood?
In: Higgins,Ward,Williams,Aker

Might have to trade everitt at the end of the year because otherwise he would leave because he cant get in the team

We have lacked run off the half back line all year. Now through Murphy and Wood we finally have some run and you want to take it away again???

[boydogs]

We have lacked run off the half back line all year. Now through Murphy and Wood we finally have some run and you want to take it away again???

Harbrow spent some time in the middle today, he could go back again. Hargrave also looks like he is starting to find his feet. Murphy can still stay back aswell.

[divvydan]

Listened to Eade's press conference and two things were really noteworthy with regards to selection.

1. Higgins, Williams and Ward will all be available for our next game
2. Grant has and Wood has 'just about' (so not 100% but close) secured a spot in the team

Additionally, Eade mentioned that Lake was very close to pulling out late with a locked up hip but should be fine after the break.

Given that, if Ward, Williams and Higgins all come in, my guess would be that Stack, Hill and Eagleton would go out.

[LostDoggy]

Does anyone think Reid could do Hahn's bulldozer role in the forward line? Reid has a massive body!

[Desipura]

I think Williams has to come back against Hawthorn, along with Ward.

Hill & Stack to make way.

If Higgins is fit he plays. Eagleton to miss, but I wouldn't play Higgins unless he was 100%.
What TCD said. Williams has to come in, we need as much help curbing Franklin as we can get!

[Desipura]

Williams not in the top 22 for mine (and perhaps not fit). If we need another tall mobile option, I'd have Everitt ahead of him.

Everitt does not play tall, has to be Williams who is a tall who can play on a small.

[DOG GOD]

Given that, if Ward, Williams and Higgins all come in, my guess would be that Stack, Hill and Eagleton would go out.

Yep, this is the way i would go. Eagleton just doesnt do enough of the hard stuff for me, and Hill and Stack need to go back to Willi and learn how to "go in hard". Ward and Higgins offers more in the fwd 50 than them two.

Williams is a shoe in to come back into the team, and from what i've seen so far of Wood, there is NO reason to shaft him. He is hard at it and offers more run than say an Everitt at this stage.

Aker, Everitt and Reid to filter thru when needed.

Hahn hasnt looked too bad in defense and gives the team a bit more flexability knowing that he can go back if needed.

[Ozza]

In: Ward; Williams; Higgins
Out: Hill, Stack, Eagleton.

I think its fairly clear that those three aren't in our full strength best 22. I like Stack but he isn't getting much of the ball and hasn't for a while.
Hill has his moments - but has been around for long enough now to know what is required in terms of intensity - and his lack there of will cost him his spot.
Eagle cashed in when the game was over yesterday - but wasn't sighted in the first half.

Everitt is still pretty unlucky to be missing out. But I'm sure an opportunity will present itself again.

Was great to see Johnno back out there today. Was a good hitout for him.

[Mantis]

In: Ward; Williams; Higgins
Out: Hill, Stack, Eagleton.

I think its fairly clear that those three aren't in our full strength best 22. I like Stack but he isn't getting much of the ball and hasn't for a while.
Hill has his moments - but has been around for long enough now to know what is required in terms of intensity - and his lack there of will cost him his spot.
Eagle cashed in when the game was over yesterday - but wasn't sighted in the first half.

Everitt is still pretty unlucky to be missing out. But I'm sure an opportunity will present itself again.

Was great to see Johnno back out there today. Was a good hitout for him.

I agree with those changes.

Williams will add some flexibility if we want (need) to throw Lake forward. If Tom isn't right Everitt probably has to come in. Perhaps they might use Hahn in the swing-man role, but I think we need an extra big body in there as well.

Eagleton had just 5 of his 20 touches in the first half and only got into the game when we got on top. With some tough games coming up that output just isn't good enough.

Hill & Stack just aren't doing enough.

[Mofra]

In: Ward; Williams; Higgins
Out: Hill, Stack, Eagleton.
Hard to argue against those changes. Ideally I'd like to keep Hill in for a little bit of X factor, but as Johnno gains form and if one of Higgins/Ward plays forward at all times (as you'd expect after a layoff) we should make up in X factor what we gain in class.

Harbrow may be pushed forward at times against the Hawks if Picken goes to Cyril.
A medium rebounder (Hargrave, Wood, Murphy) can take Osborne as one of the keys to generating some run from the backline; Franklin and Cyril demand pure stoppers and even on current form Roughy can be dangerous if not respected.

[always right]

Don't see Harbrow as a forward yet but I liked what i saw on Sunday when he ran through the midfield. With Wood and Murphy going back and Grant looking good up forward, we might see Harbrow spend more time in the middle.

I'd have Murph on Rioli when he goes forward and Picken on him in the middle. Liking the look of Easton. With those Ablett snr-like thighs, I reckon he's going to do some serious damage to an opponent one match. Like the way he takes the game on also...even though he makes mistakes. Has leapfrogged Addison IMO for that fringe spot in the team.

Thought Shaggy looked a lot better yesterday...in fact our entire backline was excellent.

[always right]

Hard to argue against those changes. Ideally I'd like to keep Hill in for a little bit of X factor, but as Johnno gains form and if one of Higgins/Ward plays forward at all times (as you'd expect after a layoff) we should make up in X factor what we gain in class.

Harbrow may be pushed forward at times against the Hawks if Picken goes to Cyril.
A medium rebounder (Hargrave, Wood, Murphy) can take Osborne as one of the keys to generating some run from the backline; Franklin and Cyril demand pure stoppers and even on current form Roughy can be dangerous if not respected.

Agree...but there comes a time when you need to choose between a player with the X-factor and a player you can build your plans around, knowing what you are going to get.

[Mantis]

Thought Shaggy looked a lot better yesterday...in fact our entire backline was excellent.

They held up well in the first when West Coast were getting their fair share of the ball, but had it pretty easy when we seized control in the 2nd half. The fact that WC had just 11 I50's after half time proves that the supply well and truly dried up.

[always right]

They held up well in the first when West Coast were getting their fair share of the ball, but had it pretty easy when we seized control in the 2nd half. The fact that WC had just 11 I50's after half time proves that the supply well and truly dried up.

Agree...just liked the way Shaggy, Wood, Murphy and Gilbee were running off half back through the middle....with Morris cleaning up anything that got through.

[Mantis]

Agree...just liked the way Shaggy, Wood, Murphy and Gilbee were running off half back through the middle....with Morris cleaning up anything that got through.

Yep, it was good to see that we had a number of options to create some drive from defence as we have been too reliant on Harbrow for much of the season thus far.

[hujsh]

As for the Eaglton bashing, take a look through the archives and you will find that many posters are highly critical of him with constant and repetitive calls for his axing. The 'offenders' names are listed above their postings and i am sure you have the detective skills to work this one out mate.

It's unfair you you to call it 'Eagle bashing' when many people have made reasoned cases for Eagleton to be dropped and for good reason.

[Mantis]

It's unfair you you to call it 'Eagle bashing' when many people have made reasoned cases for Eagleton to be dropped and for good reason.

Yep, 'becmatty' is having real trouble differentiating between 'bashing' and reasoned posting.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I agree with those changes.

Williams will add some flexibility if we want (need) to throw Lake forward. If Tom isn't right Everitt probably has to come in. Perhaps they might use Hahn in the swing-man role, but I think we need an extra big body in there as well.

Eagleton had just 5 of his 20 touches in the first half and only got into the game when we got on top. With some tough games coming up that output just isn't good enough.

Hill & Stack just aren't doing enough.

Agree with your thoughts on Hill and Stack. There seems to be a reluctance to play Everitt by the match committee. We shouldn't discount Akermanis who is still good enough to be in our best 22. At the risk of being howled down I thought Johnno apart from his two goals yesterday looked very underdone. The emergence of Grant and now Wood together with the recruitment of Hall would suggest that we should be better than last year. Harbrow was a revelation on the ball yesterday and should be retained in the midfield. Hawthorn will be a good test to see whether we have advanced on 2009.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Wood, Hargrave, and Muprhy have been injected to the backline recently, and Williams has gone out for a week and will be selected when available.

Hahn whilst perhaps getting a bit more involved against the Eagles is struggling. I think Everitt could be adding more in the utility role he is playing.

Whilst I think Stack is improving its a gradual process and Ward or Reid would add more clearance ability to the team, midfield run, and more footy smarts, but not necessarily the same forward presence, but if Johno gets fitter, and Hill does more lead up work like he did sunday then I think we can cover it.

In: Williams, Everitt, Ward
Out: Hahn, Stack, Eagleton

[Desipura]

Nobody can say that Stack has not been given opportunities to prove himself at AFL level. If nothing else, getting games into him gives him more experience, and should make him realise how hard he needs to work.
It also gives us more depth should we cop an injury to a forward at the business end of the season.
Having said that, he would want to show some more improvement as he has hardly grabbed his opportunity.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Thanks for the advice Mantis, but I think I'll carry on speaking if that is okay with you.

I apologised for wrongly assuming someone hated Eagleton, if you don't mind.

As for the Eaglton bashing, take a look through the archives and you will find that many posters are highly critical of him with constant and repetitive calls for his axing. The 'offenders' names are listed above their postings and i am sure you have the detective skills to work this one out mate.

Bravo. Stated with two great human attributes, Poise and Dignity as opposed to two human vices, Pride and Prejudice.
Mantis you are clearly intelligent and articulate yet frequently show an inability to reflect on your own prejudice against Eagleton. Yours is not the nasty prejudice that likes to see the blood of a weakened victim. But yours is the prejudice that is powered by your own pride in your prejudice that Eagleton does not meet your standards. Even though Eade and the professional opinion of our club is that you are wrong and that Eagleton meets the standards of the club and the needs of the team, you think no, they are wrong, I am right (pride). All you need to do is question your standards: "maybe I don't know the full picture, maybe I don't know as much as the professionals????" It;s not strange to other people that maybe that's true. Hey maybe you, as I and everyone else, has prejudices, but maybe others take more responsibility for theirs and temper them, whereas you go full pelt at them like your opinions are infallible.
Eagleton offers a lot to the side or else he wouldn't be in it.

[bornadog]

Nobody can say that Stack has not been given opportunities to prove himself at AFL level. If nothing else, getting games into him gives him more experience, and should make him realise how hard he needs to work.
It also gives us more depth should we cop an injury to a forward at the business end of the season.
Having said that, he would want to show some more improvement as he has hardly grabbed his opportunity.

He only had six disposals this week, been though he kicked a couple. Needed to do more in the first three quarters. At least he has had some game time and valuable experience.

I thought Hill was also very poor and also lucky to hold his spot. Hahn played a better game and looked ok in the backline against weak opposition.

[LostDoggy]

They held up well in the first when West Coast were getting their fair share of the ball, but had it pretty easy when we seized control in the 2nd half. The fact that WC had just 11 I50's after half time proves that the supply well and truly dried up.

Sure supply dried up but Shaggy hadn't looked that great his last few games, things pretty much went as well as we could have hoped for considering how rusty he had been. Great to get a game into him before the break.

[LostDoggy]

Liking the look of Easton. Has leapfrogged Addison IMO for that fringe spot in the team.


If Easton keeps playing like that i'd have to agree. Although addo was pretty good on the weekend apparently. If we were hit with injuries at a bad time i'd still have faith you could bring Addison in for a really big game, a final even, and be confident he'd at least make the opposition earn every possession the hard way.

[LostDoggy]

Where does someone like Tiller sit at the selection table? Does anyone think he will get an opportunity this season?

[Rance Fan]

Nah Tiller aint up to it. Hes a good ordinary player i reckon

[Mofra]

Where does someone like Tiller sit at the selection table? Does anyone think he will get an opportunity this season?
Hard to say - from what I've seen at Willy last year & this year, he plays a Lake-style "general's" role down back at Willy and really owns his space there (often looks a cut above VFL level). My worry is that at 191cm he has to play slightly differently at AFL level.

He strikes me as a tough type of player - my dad says Tiller reminds him alot of Bernard Toohey, and I find it hard to disagree. Plenty of competition for his spot though, especially considering Wood's vertical leap puts him in the mid-sized bracket.

[bornadog]

Sure supply dried up but Shaggy hadn't looked that great his last few games, things pretty much went as well as we could have hoped for considering how rusty he had been. Great to get a game into him before the break.

Picked up a lazy 27 Disposals, probably his best game for the year.

[Desipura]

Bravo. Stated with two great human attributes, Poise and Dignity as opposed to two human vices, Pride and Prejudice.
Mantis you are clearly intelligent and articulate yet frequently show an inability to reflect on your own prejudice against Eagleton. Yours is not the nasty prejudice that likes to see the blood of a weakened victim. But yours is the prejudice that is powered by your own pride in your prejudice that Eagleton does not meet your standards. Even though Eade and the professional opinion of our club is that you are wrong and that Eagleton meets the standards of the club and the needs of the team, you think no, they are wrong, I am right (pride). All you need to do is question your standards: "maybe I don't know the full picture, maybe I don't know as much as the professionals????" It;s not strange to other people that maybe that's true. Hey maybe you, as I and everyone else, has prejudices, but maybe others take more responsibility for theirs and temper them, whereas you go full pelt at them like your opinions are infallible.
Eagleton offers a lot to the side or else he wouldn't be in it.
There you go Mantis.

[Mantis]

There you go Mantis.

How would you like me to respond to that one Desi?

[Desipura]

How would you like me to respond to that one Desi?
Its pretty difficult to top that, I know.

[Curly5]

Listened to Eade's press conference and two things were really noteworthy with regards to selection.

1. Higgins, Williams and Ward will all be available for our next game
2. Grant has and Wood has 'just about' (so not 100% but close) secured a spot in the team

Given that, if Ward, Williams and Higgins all come in, my guess would be that Stack, Hill and Eagleton would go out.

That's drawing a long bow, on the basis of the press conference. Did Eade criticise Eagleton? No, but he damned Wood with faint praise.


Yep, this is the way i would go. Eagleton just doesnt do enough of the hard stuff for me, and Hill and Stack need to go back to Willi and learn how to "go in hard". Ward and Higgins offers more in the fwd 50 than them two.

Williams is a shoe in to come back into the team, and from what i've seen so far of Wood, there is NO reason to shaft him. He is hard at it and offers more run than say an Everitt at this stage.



Well, unlike the anti-Eagleton faction (is that better than saying Eagleton bashers?) I think Eagle does do plenty of hard stuff. He often gets crunched in packs. Agree on Hill and Stack though. Coming up against some hard "unsociable" teams would find them out. Wood plays a different role to Eagleton and while he's been good, his spot is vulnerable atm.



Bravo. Stated with two great human attributes, Poise and Dignity as opposed to two human vices, Pride and Prejudice.
Mantis you are clearly intelligent and articulate yet frequently show an inability to reflect on your own prejudice against Eagleton. Yours is not the nasty prejudice that likes to see the blood of a weakened victim. But yours is the prejudice that is powered by your own pride in your prejudice that Eagleton does not meet your standards. Even though Eade and the professional opinion of our club is that you are wrong and that Eagleton meets the standards of the club and the needs of the team, you think no, they are wrong, I am right (pride). All you need to do is question your standards: "maybe I don't know the full picture, maybe I don't know as much as the professionals????" It;s not strange to other people that maybe that's true. Hey maybe you, as I and everyone else, has prejudices, but maybe others take more responsibility for theirs and temper them, whereas you go full pelt at them like your opinions are infallible.
Eagleton offers a lot to the side or else he wouldn't be in it.

Spot on. You need to look at his role, not just whether you think he's number 18 or 22 in the side, or whether he's "as good" as someone with an entirely different role. As long as Eagle does what the coaches want, and there's no reason to think he's not, he'll stay in.

[Mantis]

Well, unlike the anti-Eagleton faction (is that better than saying Eagleton bashers?) I think Eagle does do plenty of hard stuff. He often gets crunched in packs. Agree on Hill and Stack though. Coming up against some hard "unsociable" teams would find them out. Wood plays a different role to Eagleton and while he's been good, his spot is vulnerable atm.

Most knowledgable posters don't go down the 'Eagleton is soft' path... He puts his body over the ball when he has to/ needs to.


Spot on. You need to look at his role, not just whether you think he's number 18 or 22 in the side, or whether he's "as good" as someone with an entirely different role. As long as Eagle does what the coaches want, and there's no reason to think he's not, he'll stay in.

Ok I will.

His role is to be our link-man... To break the lines and to deliver long & clean delivery to our forwards.... Is that how you see it?

The problem I (and others) have is that over the past couple of years Nathan has been unable to play this role against quality opposition. Sure he looks good against poor opposition who allow time & space, as he was allowed in the 2nd half against WC, but he hasn't been able to have an impact against teams that apply constant pressure, the same teams we will have to beat if we are to win a flag.

I don't care if he plays in the team or not... I don't, but if he does I would like him to play his role and so far against good teams I don't think he has (or does).

[LostDoggy]

Where does someone like Tiller sit at the selection table? Does anyone think he will get an opportunity this season?

He still looks a little heavier than he was when he was playing regularly, and his fitness would still be below par. He did look promising against a shocking CS on the weekend though, and as Mofra said he looks like he's playing the deep roaming role of Lake.

With Markovic being injured recently, and in some opinions, a little slow for AFL level, perhaps the match commitee have given instructions to German to play Tiller in a similar role as Lake plays.

There is no immediate replacement for a Lake or Morris if one of those two go down outside of Markovic and Tiller.

[bornadog]

I don't care if he plays in the team or not... I don't, but if he does I would like him to play his role and so far against good teams I don't think he has (or does).

I don't think he has played well this year and in hindsight would not have given him another year.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I don't think he has played well this year and in hindsight would not have given him another year.

I think hes had a good career and been handy given our injuries in 2010 but not a lot more

We have to invest the time in kids at this stage, given that for most of the year we've been a long way off the pace.

The thing that works in his favour is that we dont have that many good young link men, as Mantis describes his role, and he is a guy that genuinely can run and does. He runs hard and this is particularly noticable in second halves when other teams wear out.

Who else do people think in the VFL team can play this role?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I don't think he has played well this year and in hindsight would not have given him another year.

Fair enough but you cant predict injury's and he is only getting back from one now. I'm sure he will feel he owes the playing group as some took pay cuts to keep him at the dogs.

Maybe we need Boyd to front him and explain his role, I'm hoping that he comes good for the back 1/2 of the year.

I'm not sure against other years but IMO he has missed more targets this year which is making him a fringe player.

The question is could a Wood, Harbrow or Moles play that role. (If the kicking is better than the Eagle)

[Cyberdoggie]

Picked up a lazy 27 Disposals, probably his best game for the year.

True, but i think half the list got 20 possesions or more that game.
Casey were woeful.

Tiller did play a good solid game down back, but the questions remain over his pace, reaction, decision making and disposal. I'd play Tim Callan before Tiller, as I think Tiller is more likely to get exposed and make a collosal blunder.

[Cyberdoggie]

Fair enough but you cant predict injury's and he is only getting back from one now. I'm sure he will feel he owes the playing group as some took pay cuts to keep him at the dogs.

Maybe we need Boyd to front him and explain his role, I'm hoping that he comes good for the back 1/2 of the year.

I'm not sure against other years but IMO he has missed more targets this year which is making him a fringe player.

The question is could a Wood, Harbrow or Moles play that role. (If the kicking is better than the Eagle)

I have seen Wood play in a few positions, but i think he's a natural half back flanker.
Very similar player to Gilbee, they both move well and can break down the center of the ground and deliver the ball long. Easton looks to be getting the confidence in himself now but he still has weaknesses in his accuracy and decision making, as well as he seems to take a long time when picking a loose ball up in defence. Everything seems to slow down for him, but when he is running and jumping he is a great to watch. I'd also say he's a strong overhead marker, in front or behind packs with a great leap.

I can't see Wood playing Eagles role but he will be good value generating much needed run across the backline for us.

Tutt and Howard were also drafted to replace Gilbee in the future in my opinion.

Stack and Hill are probably best suited but i don't think either are quick enough or fit enough.

[bornadog]

True, but i think half the list got 20 possesions or more that game.
Casey were woeful.

Tiller did play a good solid game down back, but the questions remain over his pace, reaction, decision making and disposal. I'd play Tim Callan before Tiller, as I think Tiller is more likely to get exposed and make a collosal blunder.

I was talking about Hargrave.

[boydogs]

Sure he looks good against poor opposition who allow time & space, as he was allowed in the 2nd half against WC, but he hasn't been able to have an impact against teams that apply constant pressure, the same teams we will have to beat if we are to win a flag.

I don't care if he plays in the team or not... I don't, but if he does I would like him to play his role and so far against good teams I don't think he has (or does).

Is it his fault?
Perhaps we don't protect him or set him up enough to give him a chance to be damaging, and so he only does well when he can get in the clear by himself against sides that don't play as tight

[Mantis]

Is it his fault?
Perhaps we don't protect him or set him up enough to give him a chance to be damaging, and so he only does well when he can get in the clear by himself against sides that don't play as tight

Perhaps.

It seems from the stands that Eagleton has lost a yard of pace which is vital to the way he plays. When opposing teams defensive efforts drop off this pace isn't all that important, but when the opposition are applying constant pressure this little bit of speed is very important to create some distance between you and your opponent such that at the point of delivery you can steady a little.

Our shepherding & blocking hasn't been super this year and is an area that hopefully improves. If and when it does it may help Eagleton to get some seperation from his opponents which in turn could help his ability to spot up a target.... I guess we will wait and see.

[Mofra]

Our shepherding & blocking hasn't been super this year and is an area that hopefully improves. If and when it does it may help Eagleton to get some seperation from his opponents which in turn could help his ability to spot up a target.... I guess we will wait and see.
Playing devils advocate, should we put that much time into isolating a player in his last year that has two real attributes (gut-running and a left-leg cannon) that are offset by other deficiencies in his game? That much effort could impact on the effect others have in the side.

If we want a link player with a massive kick, Wood's form allows Gilbee to push up to a wing, and I rate Everitt's disposal quite highly too (not sure if his running capacity quite matches Eagle, but he's much better overhead & taller to boot).

[Mantis]

Playing devils advocate, should we put that much time into isolating a player in his last year that has two real attributes (gut-running and a left-leg cannon) that are offset by other deficiencies in his game? That much effort could impact on the effect others have in the side.

If we want a link player with a massive kick, Wood's form allows Gilbee to push up to a wing, and I rate Everitt's disposal quite highly too (not sure if his running capacity quite matches Eagle, but he's much better overhead & taller to boot).

Shouldn't that be my job? :D

I agree with that, the 4 main players I would like us to try and 'protect' would be Cooney, Griffen, Harbrow & Gilbee. After that and within reason it's every man for himself.

[Mofra]

Touche' ;)

True, although Harbrow tends to create his own space with his run.
Gilbee a little up the ground spotting up leading players with good hands (Hall & Grant) could cut teams up.
Getting Shaggy back in form & Wood's run from defence give us more options than in the past (earlier this year playing Lake, Williams, DFA & Morris as part of our back 6).

[Go_Dogs]

Getting Shaggy back in form & Wood's run from defence give us more options than in the past (earlier this year playing Lake, Williams, DFA & Morris as part of our back 6).

Agreed.

Now with Murphy, Wood, Hargrave all down back it allows more time for Harbrow and Gilbee to play further up the field, which makes our creativity, unpredictability and ball use in the forward half much better.



As far as changes for the next round:

I think out goes Stack and Hill/(or perhaps, but certainly less likely, Hahn) and in comes Ward and Higgins.

After that we're looking pretty good, with others including Everitt, Akermanis, Reid, Tiller all other possibilities along with Moles and Addison, over the next month of the season.

I also wonder if we may look to rest Hudson at some stage. He's been great for us so far this year, and we really need him bringing in the same level of performance in September. If so, Roughead also comes back into the mix.

[Scorlibo]

(or perhaps, but certainly less likely, Hahn)

Even after coming off a good game, Mitch is under the pump. I actually have no idea what everyone is on about, he has produced the same games and consistency as he always has.

[Before I Die]

Even after coming off a good game, Mitch is under the pump. I actually have no idea what everyone is on about, he has produced the same games and consistency as he always has.

Everyone is on about what everyone is always on about. It seems that everyone knows the answer to the teams woes, everyone that is except the MC. In fact it is always the MC that is the problem for not playing that one player currently at Willy who would make all the difference. Earlier in the year it was Moles, then he fell out of favour. Now it is Everitt and when he gets a game and there is still a problem, the calls will be for Reid or Roughead or .....

And why is it Hahn who is in the gun sights? Well everyone has decided that Everitt is no good as a backman, so he must be a forward and a tall one at that. So whose place can he take other than Hahn's?

I wish Everitt all the best and hope he becomes a champion, but I am getting sick of the "he is the type of player who will player better in the AFL than in the VFL" calls. We have been lacking creative run off the backline and midfield grunt. I don't really see how he would give us either of these. I hope he can force his way in and I have no doubt he could become an important player next year following a number of retirements, but I am quite comfortable with him in the twos at the moment.

Ins: Ward, Williams, Higgins

Outs:Stack, Hill, Hargrave/Wood

I think we need Williams to run up the field with Buddy and I think Mitch is still needed up forward. Hargrave and Wood both deserve to retain their spots but I don't see any option other than leaving one of them out. :(

[G-Mo77]

Our shepherding & blocking hasn't been super this year and is an area that hopefully improves.

That's something that really gets to me. Our players don't seem to want to work that little bit more to help another teammate out. I honestly think it's a major problem this year. It seems no existent at times.

I watched Sam Reid pretty closely on Saturday and he seemed to do a fair bit of blocking and shepherding around the contests. I was really impressed.

[becmatty]

I don't care if he plays in the team or not... I don't, but if he does I would like him to play his role and so far against good teams I don't think he has (or does).

Oh, but the evidence would suggest that you do care, as you make it part of your weekly routine to call for his demise.

[Go_Dogs]

Even after coming off a good game, Mitch is under the pump. I actually have no idea what everyone is on about, he has produced the same games and consistency as he always has.

I know you posted a little statistical analysis to illustrate your point on another thread so it's obviously something you have strong views about, and that is all good and well. I just don't think he's having the same impact on games. His defensive work has dropped off (even if the numbers haven't, it's the intensity, the physical ability for repeat efforts etc) and he's kicking less goals.

If he can string together some consistently good performances, against other top 4 sides, then he stays. Until then, he remains in my firing line.


And playing him out of the backline is not the answer, not with his kicking skills.

[Go_Dogs]

And why is it Hahn who is in the gun sights? Well everyone has decided that Everitt is no good as a backman, so he must be a forward and a tall one at that. So whose place can he take other than Hahn's?

Not sure if you're having a go at me here, but I didn't suggest Hahn out for Everitt in, I suggested Ward and Higgins as the inclusions and potentially Hahn as one of the outs.

It's not as simple as a Hahn v Everitt argument in my book, it's more to do with Hahn's performance, so perhaps it's not fair to group everyone into that category.

[Mantis]

Oh, but the evidence would suggest that you do care, as you make it part of your weekly routine to call for his demise.

I care about the fortune of the team. At present I don't think he is contributing as he should be and for that reason alone I want to see him replaced.

[Desipura]

I care about the fortune of the team. At present I don't think he is contributing as he should be and for that reason alone I want to see him replaced.


Oh, but the evidence would suggest that you do care, as you make it part of your weekly routine to call for his demise.
Becmatty, we cannot expect to play in the last day in September if players cannot at least break even against thier opponents (especially against the better sides). This is why Eagleton & Hahn have been in the spotlght.
I have seen it all to often when the MC gives games to senior players based on what they have produced over their careers rather than recent form. We do not want another wasted year without success.

[Scorlibo]

I know you posted a little statistical analysis to illustrate your point on another thread so it's obviously something you have strong views about, and that is all good and well. I just don't think he's having the same impact on games. His defensive work has dropped off (even if the numbers haven't, it's the intensity, the physical ability for repeat efforts etc) and he's kicking less goals.

If he can string together some consistently good performances, against other top 4 sides, then he stays. Until then, he remains in my firing line.


And playing him out of the backline is not the answer, not with his kicking skills.

I concede that we're not seeing as many of the classic Mitch triple efforts, and that he is indeed kicking a few less goals, but I think this is mostly to do with Barry's inclusion into the side, his hard leading into space playing right out of the hands of Mitch's pressure. As a result, Mitch has adopted a different game style, picking up more possies around the ground and spending less time in the forward line.

I'm not saying he's putting in wonderful performances, he never has, but he is consistently doing his bit for the team, and so there should be a number of players ahead of him in the firing line on the basis that they aren't doing just that. Hill, Stack, Eagleton, Wood and Picken are all dropped before Hahn imo.

[mjp]

Hill, Stack, Eagleton, Wood and Picken are all dropped before Hahn imo.

Picken? Wow. If he doesn't play, who plays the run-with role?

Setting that aside for a moment, my question with Mitch is that - as you explained - with the inclusion of Hall, I don't understand what his role is anymore. If it is as a flanker playing 'high' then someone like Ward would be better at that. It surely isn't to provide run from the backline (Lake, Gilbee, Hargrave, Harbrow, Wood even) or be a lock down defender (Morris)...personally I think he would be a better bet at chb than Williams but I think everyone knows I dont care about height.

To me, with Hall in the side I don't know what role Mitch is playing. He doesn't win enough possession to be a high hf or mid, he can't kick it well enough to be a running defender...so this means either he is a forward line 'pressure' player (is he quick enough) who gets about 30-40% game-time or he plays as a tall down back.

[Mofra]

We have been lacking creative run off the backline and midfield grunt.

...

Ins: Ward, Williams, Higgins

Outs:Stack, Hill, Hargrave/Wood
If we are lacking creative run off the backline, I certainly wouldn't want to drop Wood. He's been good in generating run off the backlinem and delivering long. I'd love to see a stat on average metres gained per possession, he'd have to be doing well.

[mjp]

I agree Mofra - Hargrave and Wood both need to play...and double that sentiment if the whole 'Harbrow as a midfielder' experiment continues.

[Mantis]

I agree Mofra - Hargrave and Wood both need to play...and double that sentiment if the whole 'Harbrow as a midfielder' experiment continues.

Do you think it should/ will?

Last week was helped out by the fact that WC don't play a small/ nimble forward, but in 3 of our next 4 games we face Hawthorn (Rioli or Hooper), Carlton (Betts) & Fremantle (Ballantyne) so would it be correct to assume that Jarrod will head back to a BP? Or do we play Wood, Picken or Hargrave as the small defender to allow this experiment to continue?

[Mofra]

Against Hawthorn I'm not sure who Picken goes to in the middle - Bateman's running power worries me but I'd rather go head to head. Picken to Rioli next game for me, which free's up the Brow.

For Carlton we'll need Harbrow in the backline & perhaps Picken & Shaggy too, given their small forwards can be dangerous and the quick running sides (a la Essendon) who roll the dice tend to hurt us this year.

Against Freo, mjp would know their set up far better than I would but I'd guess Picken could do a number on Hill with Harbrow on Ballantyne.

Does Wood have the agility to play on opposition crumbers? I think he'd be better off against mid-sized players, given his leap and ability overhead for his size.

[mjp]

Do you think it should/ will?

Last week was helped out by the fact that WC don't play a small/ nimble forward, but in 3 of our next 4 games we face Hawthorn (Rioli or Hooper), Carlton (Betts) & Fremantle (Ballantyne) so would it be correct to assume that Jarrod will head back to a BP? Or do we play Wood, Picken or Hargrave as the small defender to allow this experiment to continue?

The positional setup was bizarre against West Coast so it is hard to read anything into that game. I am actually amazed there has not been much debate about that on here but a 10 goal win generally satisfies the masses.

With Harbrow I am happy for it to continue because our lack of leg-speed through the middle of the ground IS a problem. I am also happy for Hargrave to take the opposition smalls because I believe that is when he has played his best footy - we just need to forget he is 192cm tall (or whatever he is) because he has been a far more effective match-up against smalls than talls.

[Mantis]

The positional setup was bizarre against West Coast so it is hard to read anything into that game. I am actually amazed there has not been much debate about that on here but a 10 goal win generally satisfies the masses.

Agree.

I was pretty puzzled to see Morris on Kennedy, Picken on Lecras and Lake & Harbrow forward were strange calls. I did read that Lake was doubtful pre-game due to a hip complaint so maybe this was the reason... Not sure?

As you say a good win covers over these match-ups which had the possibility to backfire.


With Harbrow I am happy for it to continue because our lack of leg-speed through the middle of the ground IS a problem. I am also happy for Hargrave to take the opposition smalls because I believe that is when he has played his best footy - we just need to forget he is 192cm tall (or whatever he is) because he has been a far more effective match-up against smalls than talls.

Agree with all that. Not sure if Hargrave still has the agility he once had so perhaps he can't pick up the really nimble guys, but he does play like a 6 footer.

[Cyberdoggie]

Everyone is on about what everyone is always on about. It seems that everyone knows the answer to the teams woes, everyone that is except the MC. In fact it is always the MC that is the problem for not playing that one player currently at Willy who would make all the difference. Earlier in the year it was Moles, then he fell out of favour. Now it is Everitt and when he gets a game and there is still a problem, the calls will be for Reid or Roughead or .....

And why is it Hahn who is in the gun sights? Well everyone has decided that Everitt is no good as a backman, so he must be a forward and a tall one at that. So whose place can he take other than Hahn's?

I wish Everitt all the best and hope he becomes a champion, but I am getting sick of the "he is the type of player who will player better in the AFL than in the VFL" calls. We have been lacking creative run off the backline and midfield grunt. I don't really see how he would give us either of these. I hope he can force his way in and I have no doubt he could become an important player next year following a number of retirements, but I am quite comfortable with him in the twos at the moment.

Ins: Ward, Williams, Higgins

Outs:Stack, Hill, Hargrave/Wood

I think we need Williams to run up the field with Buddy and I think Mitch is still needed up forward. Hargrave and Wood both deserve to retain their spots but I don't see any option other than leaving one of them out. :(

Williams is living off that game in Tasmania where he seemed to do a good job on Buddy, but in reality, Brain Lake is our best option. Eade has tried Morris and he doesn't have the height or body strength, but Lake out mark's Buddy every time.

We don't need Williams in the side as long as we have Morris and Lake. I'd prefer we stick with what is working at the moment compared to what wasn't earlier in the year.

We need Wood, Harbrow, Gilbee and Murphy providing that run from the back.

We don't need guys like Williams, Addison who provide nothing but average defensive options.

[Cyberdoggie]

Stack has had a good run and not improved. Hill doesn't do enough and isn't the player he used to be right now.

I'd take out Stack and Hill and bring back Higgins and Ward.

Higgins can play more forward rather than in the middle, and with the versatility that these players bring Eade can make a few changes like he has in recent weeks, ie Hahn/Lake forward or back, Harbrow into the middle or forward, etc.

[LostDoggy]

Williams is living off that game in Tasmania where he seemed to do a good job on Buddy, but in reality, Brain Lake is our best option. Eade has tried Morris and he doesn't have the height or body strength, but Lake out mark's Buddy every time.

We don't need Williams in the side as long as we have Morris and Lake. I'd prefer we stick with what is working at the moment compared to what wasn't earlier in the year.

We need Wood, Harbrow, Gilbee and Murphy providing that run from the back.

We don't need guys like Williams, Addison who provide nothing but average defensive options.

What, on the basis of playing the worst two sides in the competition?

Williams is central to the success of the defence and provides a third tall option when required. Once again last wek we flirted with Gilbee playing on a genuine tall. It might work against the Eagles but it won't work against good sides.

[Doc26]

What, on the basis of playing the worst two sides in the competition?

Williams is central to the success of the defence and provides a third tall option when required. Once again last wek we flirted with Gilbee playing on a genuine tall. It might work against the Eagles but it won't work against good sides.

Although Williams is important to how we structure up our defense I still don't see him as 'central' to the success of our defense. He could be but to this point his importance is still largely built off promise. Sure he's put in some pass marks but would Tom have ever been close to being nominated as one of our best in any of his games with us or has he ever been given a legitimate vote on Marmo other than 'that' Hawthorn game ?

[ledge]

In the risk of getting my head bitten off I rekon the young Jarryd Grant would do better in the backline than Williams, he is faster more agile and his defensive side seems a lot more urgent than Tom.

Whether he can read the play or has the body strength is another question.
In saying that I surely prefer him in the forward line but an option maybe when match up is going wrong for Tom?

[Mantis]

In the risk of getting my head bitten off I rekon the young Jarryd Grant would do better in the backline than Williams, he is faster more agile and his defensive side seems a lot more urgent than Tom.

Whether he can read the play or has the body strength is another question.
In saying that I surely prefer him in the forward line but an option maybe when match up is going wrong for Tom?

Well bad luck.

Grant has been a shining light in our forward-line as he has added some much needed pace, applies very good defensive pressure and can take a grab.

I have no idea why you would want to take that away. :confused:

[LostDoggy]

Although Williams is important to how we structure up our defense I still don't see him as 'central' to the success of our defense. He could be but to this point his importance is still largely built off promise. Sure he's put in some pass marks but would Tom have ever been close to being nominated as one of our best in any of his games with us or has he ever been given a legitimate vote on Marmo other than 'that' Hawthorn game ?

Ok - I will change "central" to "critical" And the reason for this is he brings height, strength and pace to the role. Missed by many pundits is the fact his kicking is excellent as he tends not to be in the bomb it anywhere squad.

With respect to his failure to win Marmo votes so does Morris but he is among the first picked in the side.

[The Coon Dog]

I think the benefit of Williams is that he enables everyone else to match up better on their opponents. Hargrave benefits perhaps moreso than anyone.

[mighty_west]

In the risk of getting my head bitten off I rekon the young Jarryd Grant would do better in the backline than Williams, he is faster more agile and his defensive side seems a lot more urgent than Tom.

Whether he can read the play or has the body strength is another question.
In saying that I surely prefer him in the forward line but an option maybe when match up is going wrong for Tom?

I think it was Gerard Healy that suggested such a move? or maybe it was somebody else, but Healy definatly suggested the Murphy move down back quite some time ago, and i probably see that as Grants role, if he was moved down back, but because he has done so well up forward, this allows Murph tp play that sweeping role down back.

Whilst Williams is always going to be a work in progress, thats what you get for drafting & developing athletes, he will be a better option as a one on one type player, well at least at this stage whilst Grant is still built like a tooth pick, his confidence levels must be pretty high right now, you'd hate that to get smashed, if things did go sour by throwing him in the deep end down back.

[ledge]

Well bad luck.

Grant has been a shining light in our forward-line as he has added some much needed pace, applies very good defensive pressure and can take a grab.

I have no idea why you would want to take that away. :confused:

Mantis did you choose to ignore my last statement?
I said as an option IF Tom isnt going well.
I also said I prefer him in the forward line but if Tom is getting beaten then the ball is probably going down there too much and maybe he COULD be an option.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Well bad luck.

Grant has been a shining light in our forward-line as he has added some much needed pace, applies very good defensive pressure and can take a grab.

I have no idea why you would want to take that away. :confused:

I agree it would be absurd to move Grant as along with Hall they have been our two standouts on the forward line. The move of Murphy to defence makes it even more imperative to retain Grant in attack. The sole reason to persevere with Williams in defence is that along with Lake he gives us our only two genuine talls in defence and allows Morris to pick up an opposition classy forward like a Cyril Rioli.

[chef]

I agree Mofra - Hargrave and Wood both need to play...and double that sentiment if the whole 'Harbrow as a midfielder' experiment continues.

Can't see it happen against the Hawks with Rioli to contend with.

[mighty_west]

Can't see it happen against the Hawks with Rioli to contend with.

How about if Picken takes Rioli? doesn't Rioli rotate from the midfield to the forward line anyway? On the flipside, if Harbrow plays in the midfield, who would the Hawks use to try & stop Harbrow, as well as Cooney & Griffen?

[chef]

How about if Picken takes Rioli? doesn't Rioli rotate from the midfield to the forward line anyway? On the flipside, if Harbrow plays in the midfield, who would the Hawks use to try & stop Harbrow, as well as Cooney & Griffen?

I would have Picken already busy on Bateman.

[divvydan]

Bateman of late has been doing a run with role himself, wouldn't surprise to see Bateman play on someone like Cooney or Griffen

[Sockeye Salmon]

Setting that aside for a moment, my question with Mitch is that - as you explained - with the inclusion of Hall, I don't understand what his role is anymore. If it is as a flanker playing 'high' then someone like Ward would be better at that. It surely isn't to provide run from the backline (Lake, Gilbee, Hargrave, Harbrow, Wood even) or be a lock down defender (Morris)...personally I think he would be a better bet at chb than Williams but I think everyone knows I dont care about height.



If Lake was to break down or get a hiding from Franklin this week, would you rather Mitch or Tom went to him as plan B?


I get it that height is a state of mind (within reason) but Mitch is not just too short for CHB, he's also too slow and not highly skilled.

[mjp]

I get it that height is a state of mind (within reason) but Mitch is not just too short for CHB, he's also too slow and not highly skilled.

No kidding SS. But that is where he played against West Coast.

Even the match committee seem out of ideas re- Mitch in the forward line.

[Ghost Dog]

Some people have been calling for Harbrow to be moved to an on ball role.
I don't think this is such a great idea. Firstly, he's not that big, and I think this would shorten his shelf life as a player; getting crashed around the packs.
Secondly, his kicking is excellent. He tends to find targets well and that skill is a real asset down back or in the forward line but around the center, handball skills tend to dominate.
He moved down the ground a bit last week, maybe just following his man.

[Ghost Dog]

from what i've seen so far of Wood, there is NO reason to shaft him. He is hard at it and offers more run than say an Everitt at this stage.


Correct me if I am wrong, but he is a former track and field long jumper right? Certainly powerful, great agility and hard at it.

[Ghost Dog]

Agreed.

Now with Murphy, Wood, Hargrave all down back it allows more time for Harbrow and Gilbee to play further up the field, which makes our creativity, unpredictability and ball use in the forward half much better.



As far as changes for the next round:

I think out goes Stack and Hill/(or perhaps, but certainly less likely, Hahn) and in comes Ward and Higgins.

After that we're looking pretty good, with others including Everitt, Akermanis, Reid, Tiller all other possibilities along with Moles and Addison, over the next month of the season.

I also wonder if we may look to rest Hudson at some stage. He's been great for us so far this year, and we really need him bringing in the same level of performance in September. If so, Roughead also comes back into the mix.

Yeah actually you read my mind. If we counted up all the taps, blocks, tackles and hard work Huddo does in the center we would miss him enormously if he was injured. He is really good for us, an mighty bearded warrior. I would like to see him get some support.

[Ghost Dog]

Even after coming off a good game, Mitch is under the pump. I actually have no idea what everyone is on about, he has produced the same games and consistency as he always has.

In regards to Eagleton and Hahn ( two players who seem to get singled out a great deal here ) , IMO (humbly ) you are only as good as your last three games.

So let's break it down

Dream Team points are measured thus
Kicks: 3 points
Handballs: 2 points
Mark: 3 points
Tackles: 4 points
Free kicks for: 1 point
Free kicks against: -3 points
Hitouts: 1 point
Goals: 6 points
Behinds: 1 point

Clearly Dream team points are skewed heavily toward goals. Clearly, not everyone in the team is meant to score them, having other roles. However, these are two players that should be able to kick set shots and convert. So no excuses.

In the last three games Mitch has been 16th, then 6th, then 17th in our team.
You would have to say then that his performance is below average - average / ok.
On these statistics you would say his form is fluctuating.
He is not performing badly ( clearly in our best 22 ) but average / below average.

Nathan performed 12th, 11th and 9th best in consecutive games.
You would also have to say that his performance is fair - average / ok and improving.
Clearly he is not performing badly ( also clearly in our best 22 ) but average / well / improving.


I feel it is a trend for fans to want to burn through players to find the next big thing.
It's not a computer game we are playing. You can't just swap and change on a whim - you have to have faith in players and build on mistakes and aim for improvement.

The club has had a good return from these players, particularly in terms of fitness.
A club needs plenty of cattle to get the job done and it's obvious the coach trusts them to do what's required within a 22 man squad. As long as players rank in the top 12-10 for the team several times per season, there is no reason to doubt their abilities.

So on this basis, Nathan seems likely to continue but Mitch may need a big game soon or find ways to lift his confidence IMO.

[divvydan]

Correct me if I am wrong, but he is a former track and field long jumper right? Certainly powerful, great agility and hard at it.

From when Wood was drafted:


Wood has jumped 1.90m in the high jump, won a state championship and jumped 13.85m in the triple jump, and has stopped the clock at 51secs in the 400m.

[Ghost Dog]

White man can jump.

[becmatty]

In regards to Eagleton and Hahn ( two players who seem to get singled out a great deal here ) , IMO (humbly ) you are only as good as your last three games.

Nathan performed 12th, 11th and 9th best in consecutive games.
You would also have to say that his performance is fair - average / ok and improving.
Clearly he is not performing badly ( also clearly in our best 22 ) but average / well / improving.


I feel it is a trend for fans to want to burn through players to find the next big thing.
It's not a computer game we are playing. You can't just swap and change on a whim - you have to have faith in players and build on mistakes and aim for improvement.

The club has had a good return from these players, particularly in terms of fitness.
A club needs plenty of cattle to get the job done and it's obvious the coach trusts them to do what's required within a 22 man squad. As long as players rank in the top 12-10 for the team several times per season, there is no reason to doubt their abilities.

So on this basis, Nathan seems likely to continue but Mitch may need a big game soon or find ways to lift his confidence IMO.

Well said GD.

I would say however, that you're only as good as your last game. With so many players itching to get back in the team, Rocket demands sustained excellence. If players feel that they can have a bad game here and there and live off reputation, then it breeds complacency, even if just a hint of it.

How often to maligned players and out of form teams suddenly lift when they are put on notice or their career is on the line. This suggests that performance and mental approach are inextricably linked and judging a player on their last performance in isolation will ensure sustained intensity and workrate (and hopefully dreamteam points!)...

On that note, Eagleton's intensity and performance has been good and well deserved of is spot. Agreed Mitch is off the boil though. In fact, I am officially putting him on notice...

[mjp]

I feel it is a trend for fans to want to burn through players to find the next big thing.
It's not a computer game we are playing. You can't just swap and change on a whim - you have to have faith in players and build on mistakes and aim for improvement.

I think what you will find if you do a bit of a search that the same comments being made about both Nathan Eagleton and Mitch Hahn now are simply repeats of the last 2-3 years of conversations. The same questions about their shortcomings have been asked for a long time now - the difference is that the positives of each player are no longer quite so compelling and accordingly there are now a few more singers in the chorus.

My thoughts are pretty clear and have been repeated on here constantly:

- Barry Hall has taken Mitch Hahn's spot in the side. Mitch needs to find another role to play/another way to contribute and he needs to do it now. He is too slow to provide effective defensive pressure in the forward line, doesn't get the ball enough to be a mid and is unproven down back...and his field kicking remains an issue.

I do think there is some kind of spot for him as a 40% game-time player up forward who has to hit some bodies and just attack the contest...but that is all I see. Unfortunately he doesn't get to play on Zac Dawson every week and other defenders make life a bit tougher.

Again, the problem is that we cannot play all of the forwards in our side and have a balanced, running side - Hall, Johnson, Hill, Higgins, Gia, Aker, Stack, Hahn etc etc etc...they don't all fit, we need more runners and when Ward is fit someone is going to have to go. It is going to be tight for Mitch.

- Eagleton I am not fussed about. He has a worrying habit of playing his best against the bottom sides and not getting a kick against top sides...but this is a career long trend. I have less faith in the youngsters than most on here and am quite satisfied that is his playing the role he has been selected for.

As an aside, no-one is burning through players looking for the next big thing. Unless Eagleton only playing 250games is representative of someone being 'burnt through' without receiving adequate opportunity.

[LostDoggy]

I agree Mofra - Hargrave and Wood both need to play...and double that sentiment if the whole 'Harbrow as a midfielder' experiment continues.


Do you think it should/ will?

Last week was helped out by the fact that WC don't play a small/ nimble forward, but in 3 of our next 4 games we face Hawthorn (Rioli or Hooper), Carlton (Betts) & Fremantle (Ballantyne) so would it be correct to assume that Jarrod will head back to a BP? Or do we play Wood, Picken or Hargrave as the small defender to allow this experiment to continue?

Even if Harbrow is required on a small defender I still think having Wood and Shaggy playing well can potentially free up Gilbee at times to play further up the ground. Gilbee with the ball in his hands in the midfield is a big win for us.

If Wood can continue on with the job after a good first few games, and Shaggy can regain some form, then things are looking very good for us. Hargrave Morris and Picken can all take smalls if we want to throw a curveball and release Harbrow, ( or if he is getting beaten by his opponent like in the Collingwood game )

It's Hahn and Stack I think that are under the most pressure to keep their spots.

[Ghost Dog]

As an aside, no-one is burning through players looking for the next big thing. Unless Eagleton only playing 250games is representative of someone being 'burnt through' without receiving adequate opportunity.

As the stats show, Two games ago, Mitch was 6th best player in the team out of 22 - measured in DT points. So clearly, something worked well that particular day.

I'm not a Mitch Fan or a hater. I simply look at the stats.

MJP mentioned "He is too slow to provide effective defensive pressure in the forward line" ( Hahn ).
I would say he would be as fast as Barry at least and Barry provides good defensive pressure in the forward line. So I can't really agree with this argument.

[azabob]

As the stats show, Two games ago, Mitch was 6th best player in the team measured in DT points. So clearly, something worked well that day.

Surely you can't be serious trying to justify a players position in the team based on Dream Team points?

Dream team points are based on possessions which is a useless indicator of how a player is going. How many DT points does Morris get?

Mitch Hahn isn't in the team to rack up 30 touches he is in the team for his hardness at the ball and at the contest and for his defensive efforts - Of late he is struggling to get to the contest.

How many points does he get for those efforts in the dream team scoreboard?

[mjp]

Surely you can't be serious trying to justify a players position in the team based on Dream Team points?


Given he keeps referring to them I think it is pretty clear that he is serious.

[mjp]

MJP mentioned "He is too slow to provide effective defensive pressure in the forward line" ( Hahn ).
I would say he would be as fast as Barry at least and Barry provides good defensive pressure in the forward line. So I can't really agree with this argument.

I disagree he is as quick as Hall, but if he is then we have an altogether bigger problem - he doesn't want to do it.

[Doc26]

In regards to Eagleton and Hahn ( two players who seem to get singled out a great deal here ) , IMO (humbly ) you are only as good as your last three games.

So let's break it down

Dream Team points are measured thus
Kicks: 3 points
Handballs: 2 points
Mark: 3 points
Tackles: 4 points
Free kicks for: 1 point
Free kicks against: -3 points
Hitouts: 1 point
Goals: 6 points
Behinds: 1 point

Clearly Dream team points are skewed heavily toward goals. Clearly, not everyone in the team is meant to score them, having other roles. However, these are two players that should be able to kick set shots and convert. So no excuses.

In the last three games Mitch has been 16th, then 6th, then 17th in our team.
You would have to say then that his performance is below average - average / ok.
On these statistics you would say his form is fluctuating.
He is not performing badly ( clearly in our best 22 ) but average / below average.

Nathan performed 12th, 11th and 9th best in consecutive games.
You would also have to say that his performance is fair - average / ok and improving.
Clearly he is not performing badly ( also clearly in our best 22 ) but average / well / improving.


Ghost Dog, you are aware that Dream Team does not factor in any disposal effectiveness and the only defensive stat it considers is a tackle, that is, for DT it's primarily about the number of stats, with a player rewarded even if every one of their stats happened to go down the throat of the opposition. It simply cannot be used as a means of assessing a player's value or contribution.

[Ghost Dog]

Ghost Dog, you are aware that Dream Team does not factor in any disposal effectiveness and the only defensive stat it considers is a tackle, that is, for DT it's primarily about the number of stats, with a player rewarded even if every one of their stats happened to go down the throat of the opposition. It simply cannot be used as a means of assessing a player's value or contribution.

Sure, that's why I factored in the last three games.
Throw me your preferred stats for measurement and I'll do it again.

[Ghost Dog]

Surely you can't be serious trying to justify a players position in the team based on Dream Team points?


?


Not in a single game. But over a series of games for a player that does work in the middle of the ground it can be taken as a measure of increased or decreased general influence or form. An AFL player won't kick it down the throat of the opposition every kick or they would not be in the team.
I would much rather play a team who had a high series of DT points over time than one that had low DT points over time. IM HUMBLE O

[Ghost Dog]

Surely you can't be serious trying to justify a players position in the team based on Dream Team points?

Dream team points are based on possessions which is a useless indicator of how a player is going. How many DT points does Morris get?

Mitch Hahn isn't in the team to rack up 30 touches he is in the team for his hardness at the ball and at the contest and for his defensive efforts - Of late he is struggling to get to the contest.

How many points does he get for those efforts in the dream team scoreboard?


It's not the points that count. It is the rise and fall over time. Take Stack for example. If he scored low in DT points week in week out, but everyone was satisfied with his role, then one would assume his stats to remain at the same level, relative to his role on field.

If however, his form dropped off, people would complain. We could then take a look at his stats OVER TIME and if this perceived drop in form correlated to a drop in numbers you could say that people did not really just have an axe to grind, that there was a real issue.
Backs like Morris are different and agreed, defensive efforts need other measures. However, Hahn and Eagleton do not usually play in the backline. But hey. It's just my uneducated theory and by all means, have a laugh if this seems totally batty.

[chef]

It's not the points that count. It is the rise and fall over time. Take Stack for example. If he scored low in DT points week in week out, but everyone was satisfied with his role, then one would assume his stats to remain at the same level, relative to his role on field.

If however, his form dropped off, people would complain. We could then take a look at his stats OVER TIME and if this perceived drop in form correlated to a drop in numbers you could say that people did not really just have an axe to grind, that there was a real issue.
Backs like Morris are different and agreed, defensive efforts need other measures. However, Hahn and Eagleton do not usually play in the backline. But hey. It's just my uneducated theory and by all means, have a laugh if this seems totally batty.

Can't forwards and mids can have defensive efforts too?.

[Mofra]

Can't forwards and mids can have defensive efforts too?.
DT doesn't measure spoils does it?
I'm not sure how the marking works - do players get extra points for a contested mark from an opposition kick?

One thing that has been noticeable in Morris' game over the past year & a half - he marks the ball from opposition kicks alot more than he used to. Not in the Lake category yet, but nullifying an opposition F50 entry, and his disposal is normally ok (he picks safe options and generally gives the ball off to better ball users).

I can take 2-3 defenders being safe if it frees up a Gilbee/Hargrave/Wood to kick it out, or Harbrow to run the ball out (I don't rate his disposal in the same class as the other three).

[Desipura]

If we based a players worth on dreamteam points, Hahn would not fare very well. At his best, he would crash and bash to get the ball, cant recall that stat appearing anywhere.
Unfortunately his best is behind him.

[Sockeye Salmon]

In regards to Eagleton and Hahn ( two players who seem to get singled out a great deal here ) , IMO (humbly ) you are only as good as your last three games.



I absolutely disagree with this.

You are only as good as your next game.


What we are trying to do is predict the future, I don't care what the bloke did last week, that's gone, in accounting terms a sunk cost.

I'm trying to pick who will be the best in the best team to play next week and I don't see Hahn or Eagleton in it.

Sure history is our best guide to what each bloke can do, but history also tells us that when it gets tight and the ball doesn't get fed wide to Eagle he's a liability.

[Scorlibo]

I absolutely disagree with this.

You are only as good as your next game.



And the biggest determining factor in the next game of a player is that player's most recent games. Not sure you're disagreeing on that one at all Sockeye, you're both implying that a player is only as good as what they offer in the here and now.

No one's denying that Eagleton and Hahn are in our bottom group of players at the moment, but they're not AT the bottom, and until guys like Higgins and Ward come back to add that depth, Hahn and Eagleton will remain safe. How their spot can be challenged ahead of the likes of Hill is amazing.

[Mantis]

No one's denying that Eagleton and Hahn are in our bottom group of players at the moment, but they're not AT the bottom, and until guys like Higgins and Ward come back to add that depth, Hahn and Eagleton will remain safe. How their spot can be challenged ahead of the likes of Hill is amazing.

What level of output do you expect from Hill?

BTW Higgins & Ward are expected back this week so there goes that arguement.

[Mofra]

Hill is second on our goalkicking table, and has lifted his tackling output.
Yes he has deficiencies in his game, but all players do. We perhaps spend too much time focussing on players' deficiencies and not their attributes here.

[mjp]

Hill is second on our goalkicking table, and has lifted his tackling output.
Yes he has deficiencies in his game, but all players do. We perhaps spend too much time focussing on players' deficiencies and not their attributes here.

I like Hill and think he has something a little bit different to everyone else. Whilst it is frustrating he doesn't seem to be marking it as well now as in the past, I think he will turn it around. The kid has clean hands, runs ok and kicks it well - he also kicks goals. He is a difficult match-up for opponents and would not be someone a lot of guys looked forward to playing against.

He really is a 'not his day, his moment' type of player who has the ability to kick goals quickly and needs to be accounted for.

[always right]

Something tells me Williams won't be brought in for this game. Many are predicting several changes with Everitt, Ward and Higgins on the radar. Eade has a habit of being conservative and whilst I would like to see Higgins and Ward coming in for Hill, Stack or Eagleton, I won't be surprised if there is only one change....one of Hill, Stack or Eagleton out, and one of Higgins, Ward or Everitt in. My money is on Higgins coming in for Hill. Reckon Stack has become a bit of an Eade project player.

[Mantis]

Atleast 3 inclusions (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2010/news/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/97262/default.aspx)

The Western Bulldogs will make at least three changes to their side for Friday night's clash with Hawthorn, with Shaun Higgins, Callan Ward and Sam Reid all poised to play.......

[comrade]

Higgins > Stack
Ward > Eagleton
Reid > ???

Hill and Hahn are next on the block, but I very much doubt Mitch will get dropped, so it must be Josh. That being said, both indigenous players are good finishers, which will be important in what should be a pretty tight game.

God knows what we're going to do when Tommy is back to 100% and Aker is ready to go again.

I really hope Wood gets another go and isn't 'last in, first out'.

[Greystache]

Atleast 3 inclusions (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2010/news/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/97262/default.aspx)

The Western Bulldogs will make at least three changes to their side for Friday night's clash with Hawthorn, with Shaun Higgins, Callan Ward and Sam Reid all poised to play.......

Glad to see Williams being made to earn his spot in the team, he's been an automatic selection more to get games into him than based on his performances. I think until he can be a reliable to option to pick up a key forward of some talent then he's just unbalancing the side.

[mjp]

Glad to see Williams being made to earn his spot in the team.

What he said. Very pleased with this.

[Rocco Jones]

Glad to see Williams being made to earn his spot in the team, he's been an automatic selection more to get games into him than based on his performances. I think until he can be a reliable to option to pick up a key forward of some talent then he's just unbalancing the side.


What he said. Very pleased with this.

Hattrick!

Great to see.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Atleast 3 inclusions (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2010/news/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/97262/default.aspx)

The Western Bulldogs will make at least three changes to their side for Friday night's clash with Hawthorn, with Shaun Higgins, Callan Ward and Sam Reid all poised to play.......

I can understand Higgins and Ward being recalled as they are both genuine senior players.
Yet to be convinced however about Sam Reid, as he is yet to really establish himself as being good enough.

[Mantis]

I can understand Higgins and Ward being recalled as they are both genuine senior players.
Yet to be convinced however about Sam Reid, as he is yet to really establish himself as being good enough.

Agree, but if as predicted it is a wet & slippery night Sam's hardness around the contest could be handy.

[Desipura]

Agree, but if as predicted it is a wet & slippery night Sam's hardness around the contest could be handy.

True, and Eade reffered to the last time we played the Hawks as the most physical game we had played this season. Tomorrow night should be no different, hence the toughness of Ward & Reid come in handy.

Out would have to be Stack & Hill (for Ward & Higgins)
Eagleton for Reid.
I cant see them dropping Wood as none of the ins play down back. It also gives us the luxury of playing the likes of Harbrow in the middle.

[mjp]

I cant see them dropping Wood as none of the ins play down back. It also gives us the luxury of playing the likes of Harbrow in the middle.

I can. I think we look better with Wood, Harbrow, Hargrave and Gilbee ALL in the side, but am not convinced the MC agree. If they add extra mids (Ward and Reid) then one of these running defenders might have to go.

[Greystache]

Hawks unchanged

[Greystache]

Ins- Ward, Higgins, Reid

Out- Eagleton, Hill, Stack

[Greystache]

Hawthorn
B: Brent Guerra, Stephen Gilham, Ben Stratton
HB: Thomas Murphy, Ryan Schoenmakers, Grant Birchall
C: Clinton Young, Sam Mitchell, Chance Bateman
HF: Michael Osborne, Lance Franklin, Xavier Ellis
F: Cyril Rioli, Jarryd Roughead, Shaun Burgoyne
Foll: Brent Renouf, Luke Hodge, Brad Sewell
I/C: Rick Ladson, Jordan Lewis, Beau Muston, Wayde Skipper
Emg: Jordan Lisle, Carl Peterson, Brendan Whitecross

No change

Western Bulldogs
B: Jarrod Harbrow, Brian Lake, Ryan Hargrave
HB: Robert Murphy, Dale Morris, Lindsay Gilbee
C: Callan Ward, Matthew Boyd, Daniel Cross
HF: Shaun Higgins, Mitch Hahn, Brad Johnson
F: Jarrad Grant, Barry Hall, Daniel Giansiracusa
Foll: Ben Hudson, Ryan Griffen, Adam Cooney
I/C: Will Minson, Sam Reid, Easton Wood, Liam Picken
Emg: Nathan Eagleton, Brennan Stack, Tom Williams

In: Higgins, Reid, Ward
Out: Brennan Stack, Josh Hill, Nathan Eagleton

[mjp]

Ins- Ward, Higgins, Reid

Out- Eagleton, Hill, Stack

The devil is in the emergency list!

[LostDoggy]

Great ins
Can not wait till tomorrow night!!
Go Wardy

[Rocco Jones]

Great ins
Can not wait till tomorrow night!!
Go Wardy

Me too.

This is easily my favourite team selection for a long time.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

The devil is in the emergency list!

Also a message for Josh I would think.

Is Rocket really saying Stack is better than Hill, well that is another thread one would think.

[Desipura]

I can. I think we look better with Wood, Harbrow, Hargrave and Gilbee ALL in the side, but am not convinced the MC agree. If they add extra mids (Ward and Reid) then one of these running defenders might have to go.
I cant see them dropping Wood.:D Well done to the MC's, I think they got it right this week.

[LostDoggy]

Great inclusions when you think of the expected conditions. Both teams will be throwing their weight around, especially around the stoppages. A couple of solid body-on-body players who enjoy wearing their opponents down both aerobically and physically in Callan Ward and Sam Reid. Be really great seeing Sam work and earn his spot back in a strong list which has few injuries after losing a lot of size and mass due to undiagnosed diabetes. Sam has looked in great nick each time I've seen him play at Willy. Licking me chops in expectation!!! :D

[LostDoggy]

Everitt not even named in the emergencies...

[Mantis]

Everitt not even named in the emergencies...

He should be named instead of?

[Doc26]

Andrejs's 2010 window would appear to be closing in on him. Barring opportunity from injury, which is a possibility, he will need to rise to another level, and consistently, at Williamstown to find a way in that gives the MC no choice but to find a place for him. Without exceptional performances at the lower grade it now looks like he will fall short in 2010.

One of Dre's obstacles would appear to be his lack of self confidence and to make things happen for him. Hopefully he comes to realise his potential and can find the determination and belief whilst confronting the adversity of continuing to fall short of a recall to the senior team.

[Greystache]

Everitt not even named in the emergencies...

I can tell you he wasn't and isn't even close at the moment.