Is Johnno the right captain for us?

[Dry Rot]

Brad Johnson is an exceptional player, but is he the right captain for us? Both the way he plays and where he plays?

I had the privilege of watching live the Swans' Paul Kelly turn games himself, imposing his will upon the game from the midfield. Ditto we've all seen Voss and Buckley do it in their golden years.

Seems to me that if Johnno is at FF and we're getting pumped up the field there's not a lot he can do. One could argue that the North game was there for the taking and a Kelly or a Voss could have turned it for us.

I ask this question looking ahead to 2008 and beyond. Cooney may well be that player we need as a captain - been very impressed with his last few games. Dunno if he's got the character for the job or is still too young, but i could see him doing a Kelly or Voss for us.

Thoughts?

[aker39]

The only other players capable of being captain right at this moment would be Crossy or Murph.

In future years, I'd look at Boydy.

[Mantis]

We need a captain who both has the ability to turn matches, but also has some mongrel in him. One who doesn't accept mediocity, one who leads from the front, one who says follow my lead if you dont then bugger off. Darcy pre his injuries had these qualities, he would have been perfect.

Moving forward, not sure, we need a leader, a tough and ruthless person who wont allow us to display the bad habits we presently show. From the current crop I cant see anyone with these qualities, perhaps Cross, but is he vocal enough. To me he seems to shy, maybe he is different around the club. Gia apparantely has these qualities, but I dont think he is a good enough player to be captain. Hahn has the mongrel, but like Gia is only just going as a player. Murf seems to happy go lucky, just happy to be playing a sport he loves at the highest level possible.

Cooney has the qualities to be our captain I think. He has shown some real maturity recently and his game is developing very nicely. Needs to work on a few things, but I think he is probably the best option for us from the current list.

[GVGjr]

IMO, Johnno is a good leader and I actually question the overall importance the role of the captain in AFL footy anyway.
Surely the captain doesn't have to do inspirational things to keep others motivated in a game?

[mjp]

Good teams have so many leaders that who they might be is not all that obvious.

Johnno is a leader. West is clearly a leader. As are Darcy, Aker, Cross, Boyd, Shaggy, Morris, Gia, Gilbee, Harris and - much to my surpise - maybe even Street.

When we can add Cooney, Griffen, Higgins and McMahon to that group we will be getting somewhere.

[bornadog]

I think Johnno is a great captain and was given the ultimate accolade for a captain by being named the All Australian Captain. He can also be inspirational with some of the the tricks he has in his bag.

For the future, Murphy or Gia could slot straight in and beyond that as DR suggests Cooney.

[aker39]

I don't think Cooney will ever captain our club.

He is too much of an air head for my liking.

[Bulldog Revolution]

IMO, Johnno is a good leader and I actually question the overall importance the role of the captain in AFL footy anyway.
Surely the captain doesn't have to do inspirational things to keep others motivated in a game?

Agreed,

I think he is a great role model on and off the ground - a good family man, a good mate and someone who gets the best out of themself and is wholly committed to the club and his team mates etc

He has always been a ball player to the level where he is unlikely to barge through a pack and flatten someone, however he is extremely courageous - and in my opinion that is his toughness, along with his ability to gut run.

I think you could argue that he often kicks inspirational goals that lift our team

I've been extremely impressed with Cooneys season (particularly given the OP) and definitely consider him a future captain - he has a swagger that gives those around him confidence and I definitely think he leads the group of players Ray, Griffen, Williams, Higgins etc. Cooney has the lovable larrikin within.

[Mofra]

Moving forward, not sure, we need a leader, a tough and ruthless person who wont allow us to display the bad habits we presently show. From the current crop I cant see anyone with these qualities, perhaps Cross, but is he vocal enough.
Not being overly vocal can work for you as a captain... players will really listen to someone who doesn't waste words. Grant is still a fairly quiet guy.
I vote Cross as next captain.

[Go_Dogs]

I think either Cooney or Griff would make excellent leaders. Boyd and Cross are others whose hard work is inspirational and either one of Bob Murphy and Gia could also be potenital candidates. I guess a lot of it depends on how long Johnno remains captain.

I don't think Cooney is an 'air head' as you put it Aker, he just has a lot of charisma and doesn't mind to poke fun at himself.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Murphy wrote recently that he has no aspirations to be captain, claiming "it's not for him". He thought Gia was born to it.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Murphy wrote recently that he has no aspirations to be captain, claiming "it's not for him". He thought Gia was born to it.

If Gia produced the type of performance he did against North more consistently, and kicked more of the goals he should kick, then I would have no problem with him as captain.

I did note that it had a stat up that he is No.3 for goal assists in the whole AFL which I thought was interesting.

[bornadog]

If Gia produced the type of performance he did against North more consistently, and kicked more of the goals he should kick, then I would have no problem with him as captain.

I did note that it had a stat up that he is No.3 for goal assists in the whole AFL which I thought was interesting.

I think Gia started the sesaon like he was not fully fit but he has got better and better. Too many supporters expect him to be a superstar. Have a look at his goal accuracy from set shots, he is pretty good. He isnot the greatest snap shot at goal, although he put through a beauty against North last week He is also averaging 19 disposals and 3.5 tackles per game

[Go_Dogs]

His year started very quietly, and I think a lot of us had expected Gia to really step up this year and become a premier onballer in our side, hence a bit of disappointment about him early. He's certainly turned his season around, and let's hope he doesn't as usual get struck down by a soft tissue injury just as he's playing his best footy.

[LostDoggy]

This was an after match topic on 774 yesterday. I only saw 1 specific incident where Johno blazed away at goal from an angle (got it btw) but had Aker in the square free.

Anyone know of any others yesterday and why Johnno's selfishness was questioned.

[southerncross]

This was an after match topic on 774 yesterday. I only saw 1 specific incident where Johno blazed away at goal from an angle (got it btw) but had Aker in the square free.

Anyone know of any others yesterday and why Johnno's selfishness was questioned.

He is playing mainly as a deep forward so I suppose there has to be a bit of tunnel vision with the goals in sight but normally it's only once a game where he mises a better option.

I don't think he is selfish.

[Mofra]

There was the game last week where he should have had a shot but unselfishly passed to Power. We muffed the opportunity.

For mine a bloke leading the Coleman mdeal tally (as of today) deserves to be selfish.
Lloyd, Lockett, Gehrig etc were all selfish, their supporters were/are not too concerned about it because they are fulfilling their specific role within the team. That is what Johnno does.

[Sockeye Salmon]

This was an after match topic on 774 yesterday. I only saw 1 specific incident where Johno blazed away at goal from an angle (got it btw) but had Aker in the square free.

Anyone know of any others yesterday and why Johnno's selfishness was questioned.

Mark Maclure brought it up on 774. It's just lazy journalism.

Johnson didn't pass when he should have to Aker a few weeks back and now these clowns accept it as fact and roll out the cliches because they can't come up with any original insights themselves.

Maclure brought up Johnno trying to mark one on the goal line that had already gone through and the one from the pocket that was marked in the goalsquare by Thurstans.

I especially got pissed off with him bringing up the 2nd one because if Johnno was having a shot he would have either scored or kicked it OOB. He looked (to me) to be trying to bring it back to the top of the square to Harbrow but didn't give it enough hook.

[southerncross]

Mark Maclure brought it up on 774. It's just lazy journalism.

Johnson didn't pass when he should have to Aker a few weeks back and now these clowns accept it as fact and roll out the cliches because they can't come up with any original insights themselves.

Maclure brought up Johnno trying to mark one on the goal line that had already gone through and the one from the pocket that was marked in the goalsquare by Thurstans.

I especially got pissed off with him bringing up the 2nd one because if Johnno was having a shot he would have either scored or kicked it OOB. He looked (to me) to be trying to bring it back to the top of the square to Harbrow but didn't give it enough hook.

It's all rubbish. He is not selfish and I agree that this just smacks of laziness on behalf of a couple of journo's who have focused on a couple of isolated incidents.

[LostDoggy]

Johnno has been an outstanding captain so far. I've just read that article from today's Age - he really is a remarkable player and one of the game's elite. We're lucky to have him. I don't understand the critisism he's received in some quarters.

Coleman medal would be a nice feather in his cap, Premiership even better.

[Dry Rot]

After the weekend's disaster, I thought I'd bump this and expand it to include the so called "leadership group".

Given the past 6 weeks, clearly something is wrong.

[GVGjr]

Can the leadership of the playing really be questioned?
I know everything needs to be reviewed but I really don't rate the whole "who should be captain" question that highly. Players have a job to do and are just not performing well.
I actually think we have a strong leadership group.

[DOG GOD]

johnno will be capt until GRIFF is ready to take over.

[Mantis]

I actually think we have a strong leadership group.

In what sense, pound for pound can they bench press more than all the other leadership groups?

Where were our leader's when the times were tough on Sunday, stating up in the back half, turning the ball over and not working hard enough.

Our leadership group is a fair dinkum joke.

[GVGjr]

In what sense, pound for pound can they bench press more than all the other leadership groups?

Where were our leader's when the times were tough on Sunday, stating up in the back half, turning the ball over and not working hard enough.

Our leadership group is a fair dinkum joke.

I think the leadership group is as important to the team and club off the field as it is on. Our leadership group is dedicated, talented and terrific role models. They also work well with the youngsters.
There might not be the game breakers that a few other teams have for that bit of additional inspiration but I don't think other players should necessarily be looking to a select few to inspire their own performance too often.

In what ways do you think they are a joke?

[mjp]

I think the leadership group is as important to the team and club off the field as it is on. Our leadership group is dedicated, talented and terrific role models. They also work well with the youngsters.
There might not be the game breakers that a few other teams have for that bit of additional inspiration but I don't think other players should necessarily be looking to a select few to inspire their own performance too often.
In what ways do you think they are a joke?

I agree 100% with the section in bold. But I would also say that if the onfield behaviours of the current group are seen as an example - not an inspiration, but an example of what is required/expected/tolerated at the club - then it has not been good enough over the past couple of months.

[Mantis]

In what ways do you think they are a joke?

In terms of the example they show to the youngsters in playing a committed style of football. The leadership group as a whole do not pick up there opponent, do not give continued 2nd and 3rd effort's and I believe look to take the easy option when they are struggling. This may mean that they go to ground at the contest or go to ground when slipping off a tackle or running forward of the play rather than helping out a team-mate.

We have too many of our leader's who when we are struggling they drop behind the play to stat up by playing an un-accountable style rather than enforcing a style of play that forces the team to play a 1 on 1 style where you pick up your man at the very least.

I am sick to death of watching the team fall apart at the seams and from a far it looks like it is just accepted by the leaders and experienced players of the club. The leaders may as you say set a very good example off the ground, but on the ground it's a far different story.

[GVGjr]

So whats the answer Mantis? Who would you install in the leadership group that would change things?

[Go_Dogs]

Griffen is the answer, but not for a few more years - imo. We just need leaders who'll stand up and not accept weak performances, will do everything they can to win a game for their team - Like Grant did last year on numerous occasions with big smothers, backing into packs etc. Not so much to inspire the team, but as you say to set the example that 'this is what we're doing, we're not going to lose this game' and really help drag the team over the line. Griffen is the man who can do it. Throw in Boyd and Cross too - (not sure of their position in the leadership group).

In essence, I agree with the points that both groups are making. GVG you're right in that the leadership group isn't there and shouldn't be there to motivate and inspire, that should take care of itself. Mantis is also right that we need a leadership group prepared to stand up, not tolerate second rate efforts, and someone who can influence the game and really help drag the team over the line. Leadership is a willingness to push yourself further and harder for the sake of the team and the club. Quite a few of our leaders haven't done this well enough this year for mine.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm sure Eade still rates Paul Kelly as the best captain he's ever coached, and that would be due solely to his work ethic and willingness to push himself harder than anyone else for longer.

[Mantis]

So whats the answer Mantis? Who would you install in the leadership group that would change things?

I have been racking my brain trying to think of who we could bring into the group and from afar I have no idea. There seems no logical choice from the 24-28 age bracket who have both the football and media skills required to lead the club. I think we need to bring in some tough un-compromising players into the group, but realistically we don't have to many of these and thats one of our real problems. We dont have to many no frill players, who just do there job week in week out.

I red with interest Rob Murphy's article in the Age a few weeks back, linked below:

http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/elvis-hounds-this-dog/2007/08/15/1186857593434.html

This article speaks about the change in direction the leadership group has been taking, but these results have yet to be witnessed. Can this group enforce it?

Things can change quickly, Geelong have been able to implement a change of direction by with Tom Harley as captain. From the outside he looked like a strange choice, but he has helped to install the type of game style which is required to become a very good side in this competition. Let's hope we can go down a similiar path.

[GVGjr]

I have been racking my brain trying to think of who we could bring into the group and from afar I have no idea. There seems no logical choice from the 24-28 age bracket who have both the football and media skills required to lead the club. I think we need to bring in some tough un-compromising players into the group, but realistically we don't have to many of these and thats one of our real problems. We dont have to many no frill players, who just do there job week in week out.



Thats my main point of difference with you because there is no logical replacements for the current leadership group. In fact we ditched guys like West to promote others and develop them.

It's also hard to say that Harley is the reason for the Geelong revival but I think it's a combination of a fit and strong list coupled with natural development and improvement.
They have also just become a lot better at executing their game plan as well.

I don't think the whole leadership question is a good one if we are trying to explain what went wrong with the season. From my point of view it is in fact just a very small component.
Our skills, game plan, physcial development and list management are the main reasons for our sub standard performance this year and if we fix that then the current leadership group will look like stars.

[Mantis]

Thats my main point of difference with you because there is no logical replacements for the current leadership group. In fact we ditched guys like West to promote others and develop them.

It's also hard to say that Harley is the reason for the Geelong revival but I think it's a combination of a fit and strong list coupled with natural development and improvement.
They have also just become a lot better at executing their game plan as well.

I don't think the whole leadership question is a good one if we are trying to explain what went wrong with the season. From my point of view it is in fact just a very small component.
Our skills, game plan, physcial development and list management are the main reasons for our sub standard performance this year and if we fix that then the current leadership group will look like stars.

All good points, but referring to you final statement I can't see it happening.

I think it was hoped that by introducing Cross, Hahn, Giansiracusa and Murphy to the leadership group there games would go to another level. This hasn't happened.

Cross was having a very good year til his injury, but needs to play a much more defensive role next year. He doesn't pay a lot of respect to his opponent and this has to improve.

Giansiracusa has gone backwards big-time, he looks unfit, and really can only play as a small forward, is this enough?

Murphy has had an interupted year, and has had some good games, but his efforts throughout a game, especially when we are struggling ebb and flow far too much for a leader of the club. He looks almost dis-interested at times, which is hard to believe if you are a regular reader of this articles.

Hahn is excused due to his injuries.

Johnson, if not injured, which he must be, needs a kick up the arse. On too many occassions he goes kick chasing when we are struggling. As captain it is hard to have an influence as a forward if the ball isn't getting there, but his affect as a loose man in defence is debatable. His passing skills and decision making is iffy at best. He would be far better going into the middle and using his strong frame to mix it up a little, get your hands dirty and inspire the team by winning some hard balls rather that chasing easy kicks.

I think Gilbee and Griffen should be brought into the leadership group next year, they I believe have leadership qualities.

Eade at the end of this year has the chance to send a message to the playing group by the decision he makes to what will and will not be accepted. If he continues to persist with many on the list who have not improved or grasped his concepts then we will not improve. But if he is strong and sends a direct message that if you will not play his style you will be moved on we may go somewhere, because the talent is there in spades, but sadly the application has been missing.

[bornadog]

Thats my main point of difference with you because there is no logical replacements for the current leadership group. In fact we ditched guys like West to promote others and develop them.

It's also hard to say that Harley is the reason for the Geelong revival but I think it's a combination of a fit and strong list coupled with natural development and improvement.
They have also just become a lot better at executing their game plan as well.

I don't think the whole leadership question is a good one if we are trying to explain what went wrong with the season. From my point of view it is in fact just a very small component.
Our skills, game plan, physcial development and list management are the main reasons for our sub standard performance this year and if we fix that then the current leadership group will look like stars.

Geelong did a couple of things pre-season to address both the coach and the leadership group.

Coach - They asked Bomber to take a step back and let some of the decision making to be handled by assistants as well as the playing group

Leadership - I can't remember the full details, but they brought in an outside consulting group to brainstorm the leadership question at the club and then empowered the players and the leadership to make decisions.

What can we do:

1. Maybe we need Eade to concentrate more on coaching and give the running of the football department to some one else. Could be a financial implication?

2. Leadership - Do something similiar to Geelong and explore what can be done.

I think Brad is a top Captain and was the All Australian Captain last year. However, he needs help especially with the on field leadership. I think Murphy,Gia and Cross need to stand up for starters. Not sure on the others and who can be a future leader.

Eade said a few weeks ago that the boys are very quiet and no one is arogant. Well this needs to change, we need an arrogant, and confident person to stand up. No more quiet captains, we have had our share of quiet captains like Wynd, Grant and even Johnno to some extent. Bring back some agro.

[Go_Dogs]

Bring back some arrogance to the football too while their at it.

[Dry Rot]

I am coming around to the rather odd view of giving the captaincy to Cooney for a season.

Why?

Aside from the fact he is a midfielder and IMHO we need the captain to be in the guts, IMO it will either make him or break him (hopefully the former)

We've seen his best and it's pretty good. The captaincy may bring that out consistently.

IMHO, the answer isn't a current senior player.

Fire away! :D

[Go_Dogs]

Whilst Cooney certainly has the talent and is obviously a very popular member of the club, does he have the leadership and hard work ethic that we need? Leadership, potentially he ticks that box, but as far as work ethic on the track - I'm not so sure. I'd have Griffen ahead of him at this stage for future captaincy - but Cooney could easily make himself a worthwhile candidate.