Match Preview: Round 15- Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

[Rocco Jones]

Round 15
Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Etihad Stadium
Sunday 4.40 PM

Recent history

Carlton is our current bogey side. Despite them struggling in recent history, they have had little difficulty against us. We have lost our last 3 encounters against the Blues with our last victory against them coming in 2006.

We have gone into all of these games as clear favourites but have really struggled to curb their fast, attacking style.

Last time we meet was all the way back in Round 5 last year. The Blues won every quarter, winning the game by 43 points with Murphy and Gibbs dominating.

Form

Us
LLWWL

Back to back thrashings of the two weakest sides going around where followed up by a close loss to the in form Hawks last week. We keep on doing the business against the teams that make up the numbers but simply cannot get over the line against the top 6 sides.

Blues
WWLLW

Successive losses were broken by a win again the struggling Lions last week, with the Blues taking 3 quarters to shake them off before hammering them in the last quarter.

Both sides are 2-2 over the last 4 weeks with both teams wins coming against the two weakest sides in the competition at the moment in Brisbane and West Coast so both teams will obviously be looking for a decent scalp.


At the selection table

Us
Reid is definitely out after injuring both shoulders. Minson and Johnson are both in doubt after picking up injuries with the former looking unlikely to play. Hahn is struggling massively for form and doesn’t seem to have a role in the side. I really hope Rocket finally runs out of patience with Mitch.

Roughead seems the obvious replacement for Minson if he misses. Everitt could come in as a direct replacement to fill Hahn’s ‘utility’ type role. There are a few players at Willy who are thereabouts. I think we need to bring in another tall defensive option to allow Morris and Shaggy to play on smaller opponents, with Willliams, Everitt and Tiller as potential options.
Callan is a chance to play with Carlton’s 4 small forwards.

My preference would be to bring in Everitt as a swingman, giving us greater flexibility on how we use Morris and Shaggy.

Moles looks an obvious out and out replacement for Reid if we want to go down that track.

Blues

Hampson struggled in his first game replacing Kreuzer and Warnock could be a chance, however I think they will give Hampson a bit more time.

Bower could come back in for Thornton or possibly Grigg which could result in more midfield time for Gibbs. Lucas is another potential replacement for Grigg.

The key and match ups

How to use Picken and Judd

I’m really not sure how to use Picken this week.

Kade Simpson looks the obvious outside match up and I am normally not a fan of tagging accumulators of the ball who get the ball through a lot of hard running. That being said, Picken’s role on Bateman earlier in the season was fantastic and really helped us get over the line. I think Cross is another option for Simpson if Gibbs spends most of his time down back.

Judd is obviously a massive barometer for them and I know Picken is an outside tagger but I wouldn’t mind seeing Picken go to Judd with assistance from Boyd or possibly Cooney at the centre bounces and stoppages. Liam could combine that with time on Simpson.

If we aren’t going with Picken I would like us to avoid a half arsed run with/tag role using Boyd and just go head to head with him using Cooney.

Who Carrazzo and Joseph will go to

I think Carrazzo will follow one of Cooney or Griffen. They have used Joseph predominately as a small defender this season but with our midfield class so reliant on Cooney and Griffen and no massive small forward dangers, I think they will be tempted to tag both with Carrazzo spending the ‘inside’ and Joseph the ‘outside’ tag. I think the best way for us to combat this is for Griffen to really get involved in the middle and make it a massive sacrifice for them to play Joseph in such a defensive role.

The other obvious and more conventional role for Joseph to play is on Gia. If Joseph does this, whoever is free of the tag obviously needs to take advantage of it.

Their leftover midfielders/runners vs our ones

I don’t think they will be paying much attention to one another, just trying to create as much damage for their respective sides as possible.

Murphy was pretty ordinary in his first game back from injury, hopefully he needs another week to get back into his damaging grove.

Bryce Gibbs

He has spent most of his time on the half back line this season. I think they will try to expose one of our more unaccountable/mobile smaller forwards, I think Johnno might be a chance or Hahn if he plays.
It will be interesting to see how we go about stopping Gibbs, could be a bit of a merry-go-round with Gia trying to play the small forward defensive job on him, especially if Joseph has a role on Gia.

Bower could come in and free up Gibbs to play in the midfield and make the above redundant! If this happens or Gibbs simply gets more midfield time, I would have Cross apply an actual tag on him.


Hall vs Jamison

Lloyd rates Jamison as the best spoiler he ever played against and I think he will get a bit of assistance from Thornton/Bower. Our deliver inside 50 will need to improve significantly from Friday night but we also need Bazza to work hard and smart to create space on the lead.

Houlihan vs Gilbee

I think Houlihan’s work as a defensive forward has been underrated this season. He has claimed some big scalps including Newman, Enright, Heath Shaw, Grimes and Fisher. His foot skills mean he doesn’t need much of it himself to create damage.

We really need a big one from Gilbee as the other small defenders will have their hands full on the guys I am about to mention.

Yarran, Garlett and Betts and other Carlton forward titbits

Their forward like without Waite is very much tall or small with Henderson and Setanta playing the tall roles. Ideally Lake will take the deeper tall forward option but I am not sure how to handle their second forward.

While I think Morris is most suited to playing on a tall, I think it’s a waste to play him in such a lock down role on the likes of Henderson or Setanta. It’s hard to see a match up for Shaggy with his poor form and no Blue medium forwards, a lot will depend on who we bring into the side. As much as I don’t like the thought of Shaggy playing tall I think our backline structure looks better overall if he does. While I think Morris is more suited to talls and Shaggy smalls, I rate Betts as the biggest threat in their forward line and see Morris as our best stopper.

At least one of Everitt, Williams or Tiller looks sure to come into the side who along with Morris provide us with back up options should Shaggy struggle playing tall.

With Gilbee coming under close attention I would like us to try to play Harbrow on Garlett and hopefully create some rebound.

Wood is another option to play on Yarran as well as Callan or Addison if we bring one of them in. It looks the obvious week to play Callan but with Shaggy and Morris having no medium options to play on as well as Gilbee, Harbrow and Wood, I think we will be right for small defensive options.

It will be interesting to see how defensive or attacking we go here, perhaps all out defence on the trio with Harbrow further up the ground.


Lake

With no quality tall forwards hopefully Lake can zone off and force the Blues to be precise with their forward delivery as well as starving their small forwards of the scraps Setanta and/or Henderson offer.

Bobby

I have loved his work down back since coming back from injury but with their tall and small forward line and our struggles up forward, I think it is time for him to return to our forward line. After last week, god knows we need something around HF.

Hudson

He has been elite this season and hopefully he can really expose Carlton’s ruck combo. Everyone knows I am a fan of playing a part time ruck


Where it will be won

Judd is obviously a massive barometer for them and we would be hoping to curb his usual brilliant game to a very good one.

Last week Cooney and Griffen were both very well held and we can’t afford a repeat with Carlton’s rampant running team. It really deprives us of class going inside 50.

They have 4 quality small forwards which will make it difficult for our small defenders both defensively and to create rebound. If we go with Harbrow on one of their smalls, the match up will be massive. Lake will take Henderson or Setanta. He is often great when up against a weaker opponent, zoning off to take marks off opposition kicks and turn defence into attack; he will be a massive player for us on Sunday.

The battle of the runners is where we have really struggled against the Blues in recent history and we really need big ones from Boyd, Cross and co. If they are going to win I think it’s going to be on the back of their runners clearly beating ours and their small forwards taking advantage of this. The Gibbs match up could be pivotal.

Jamison is at his best when his opponent doesn’t have much space and he can rely on his ability to spoil. Obviously our forward line delivery has to improve but Hall also needs to clever and hard to create space. I think he can really expose a few of Jamison’s decencies if he gets this space.

My tip

I really think they are going to miss Waite. Their best form of the season came at the same time as Waite coming back from his spell in the VFL. He has been a strong contributor in all their wins bar one, missing last weeks game against the pathetic Lions. Without him I think their forward line lacks variety.

I think Lake will really punish Setanta/Henderson zoning off to take a truckload of marks, creating rebound and forcing delivery inside the Blues 50 to be precise. I am also confident that we have enough depth and flexibility in our backline to deal with their small forwards. I think if you do everything else right, you go along way in stopping them anyway.

Hopefully we see an accumulated improvement in both our delivery forward and how our forwards work together. If Hall can work to create space and he gets the right delivery, I think he will really expose Jamison however I am worried about our lack of scoring options and if we are relying on long bombs to Bazza we will struggle. I think it's time for Bobby to add some much needed flow to that HF line and hopefully he can start that on Sunday.

Cooney and Griffen shouldn’t (or hopefully won’t) both have poor games again. Unlike the Hawks, the Blues don't have 2 players able to put quality tags on while still warranting time in the middle in their own right. If at least one of them fires that will add a lot of much need class into our midfield/running team. If they are going to beat us it will be on the back of their running team smashing ours which has happened over the last 3 years. I have a lot of faith in us winning the ball and if our running team can avoid getting clearly beaten by theirs; I think we will have too much overall talent for them.
Let’s hope it doesn’t get close!

Dogs by 3 goals

[Mofra]

Great review - Waite is a massive out for them, obviously as is Kreuzer.

Their small forwards are a problem - I wouldn't be surprised to see Picken go back, and I would also like to see Morris go to Betts as he is damn close to the best small forward in the competition right now.

[Rocco Jones]

Great review - Waite is a massive out for them, obviously as is Kreuzer.

Their small forwards are a problem - I wouldn't be surprised to see Picken go back, and I would also like to see Morris go to Betts as he is damn close to the best small forward in the competition right now.

I think Picken is a an option down back but I would prefer us only to use him if our other options have failed as he is probably needed elsewhere with Simpson and perhaps a few stints on Judd to make him 'earn' a few touches.

Shaggy of 2008-09 would look invaluable for this game with his ability to stop small forwards as well as creating his own rebound. A return to something resembling the form of the last couple of seasons would be enormous to our backline structure, his greatest value is how he frees up everyone else to play their most suitable role.

While there is obvious room for improvement from Friday, I believe that if we bring a similar effort on Sunday we should be too much for Carlton. They don't have the negating style that Hawthorn do and I really expect a big improvement from Cooney and Griffen, which should in turn help our delivery forward.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Great review Rocco. Am coming over for this one and hopefully it turns out a little better than that Round 5 game (which I also came over for).

I'd like to see Grant have a cracker, I believe the Rd5 game last year was his only game for the year and he, like the rest of our forward line, struggled. This was not helped by the scrappy up and under long bomb delivery that day (not unlike last week) but he really did look a long way from AFL quality back then.

I thought that Carlton were really lucky that they were playing the Lions last week, because they were mostly pretty awful. Their ball use in particular was unbelievably worse than ours. I think that statwise this game will be very, very even (in terms of possesions, clearances etc) and that the side with the greater kicking efficiency will win the game. 35% may do the job going on both teams efforts last week :rolleyes:

Edit: Oh a tip, Dogs by 24

[BulldogBelle]

Is it true that in the history of matches between the two clubs we have never beaten them by 10 goals or more?

[bornadog]

Great review enjoyed reading this from the other side of the world.

This is a danger game and a real must win

[BulldogBelle]

This is a danger game and a real must win

Did we say this last week?:o

Great read. Thanks

[Ghost Dog]

Great Preview.
In my view, I think what all of us want to see is a clear indication that mistakes have been learned from last week and round 5.

Examples: the following
1. Return to being a side that kicks the ball well: hit the target or at least kick to advantage.
2. Less turnovers and a bit more poise
3. Much better marking in our own 50 (as in Gleeson article )
4. shake it up MC. Don't be afraid to drop a player if they are struggling or at least bench them a bit and give youth a go. Selections that give us more speed.
5. Keep fighting for four full 25 minute quarters. Last week was positive in that regard. Have not done it enough.
6. Less fear in taking the man on. More Harbrow like tenacity to (a bit more) dodge and fake. Bit more swagger? confidence?

Add to that?

[Mantis]

In my view, I think what all of us want to see is a clear indication that mistakes have been learned from last week and round 5.

Examples: the following
1. Return to being a side that kicks the ball well: hit the target or at least kick to advantage.
2. Less turnovers and a bit more poise
3. Much better marking in our own 50 (as in Gleeson article )
4. shake it up MC. Don't be afraid to drop a player if they are struggling or at least bench them a bit and give youth a go. Selections that give us more speed.
5. Keep fighting for four full 25 minute quarters. Last week was positive in that regard. Have not done it enough.
6. Less fear in taking the man on. More Harbrow like tenacity to (a bit more) dodge and fake. Bit more swagger? confidence?

Add to that?

There isn't much worthwhile in all that GD.

1, 2 & 3 - How will this magically improve? Players with limited kicking abilities aren't suddenly going to become good kicks overnight. On point 3 specifically it isn't like we are dropping easy mark after easy mark.

4. Benching players is so 1990's - With the pace of the game now you need all hands on deck. Punishing a player this way (benching) means you are playing fatigued players which reduces your ability to compete. Ridiculous thought.

Which 'speedy' players would you like to see get a go?

5. We have fought out all our games - Lack of effort isn't the reason we are losing close games.

6. Our players need to play to their strengths. Harbrow is evasive so can dodge and weave as you say, but someone like Cross can't, so plays appropriately. Changing playing styles will do more harm than good.

[Ghost Dog]

There isn't much worthwhile in all that GD.

Hey Mantis

1, 2 & 3 - How will this magically improve?

Players like Gilbee and Eagleton who are usually very good kicks have been really down on their accuracy. Th our kicking efficiency is quite down on last year. Players who are usually good with disposal are butchering the ball. These players can do alot better. Last year, every time they passed it off to Lindsay you were sure he would peg it. This year, that has not happened. This guy runs his own kicking clinics! It will improve and has to.


4. Benching players is so 1990's - With the pace of the game now you need all hands on deck. Punishing a player this way (benching) means you are playing fatigued players which reduces your ability to compete. Ridiculous thought.

This was a polite way of saying, please do something about Mitch Hahn. If the match committee are not prepared to do something about players who are not performing, then at least have a better role for them, or put them as interchange players. Our approach has become a bit predictable.

Which 'speedy' players would you like to see get a go?
Everitt, Moles, we have quite a few players with dash.


5. We have fought out all our games - Lack of effort isn't the reason we are losing close games.
How many games can you say we have put in 4 good quarters ? Name one? Even against Brisbane, the second quarter was won by them.



6. Our players need to play to their strengths. Harbrow is evasive so can dodge and weave as you say, but someone like Cross can't, so plays appropriately. Changing playing styles will do more harm than good.

I am talking about not panicking when tackled and giving off poor disposals. Saw a bit of that last week. Not being afraid to take on the man and work it through the zone now and then rather than trying to bomb it ( last week as an example ) .

Hope this clarifies!

[Mofra]

Everitt isn't getting a go because of his acceleration, not in spite of it. I like him on a wing where acceleration isn't as important as running to the right spots & using his footskills (which I rate) but it seems the MC disagree.

Our problem at the moment is delivery & ball use, and Moles isn't the player that will help in that regard.

[Greystache]

Everitt isn't getting a go because of his acceleration, not in spite of it. I like him on a wing where acceleration isn't as important as running to the right spots & using his footskills (which I rate) but it seems the MC disagree.

Everitt's not getting a game because the match committee's again not happy with his intensity, work rate at training and in games, and with the consistency of his efforts. The club hoped he'd turned the corner after a positive preseason but if seems old habits have returned.

[Mantis]

Hope this clarifies!

No it doesn't - Here is why.


Players like Gilbee and Eagleton who are usually very good kicks have been really down on their accuracy. Th our kicking efficiency is quite down on last year. Players who are usually good with disposal are butchering the ball. These players can do alot better. Last year, every time they passed it off to Lindsay you were sure he would peg it. This year, that has not happened. This guy runs his own kicking clinics! It will improve and has to.

Besides Morris & Williams who dispose of the ball by foot with minimal risk (invariably a short pass sideways) Gilbee is still statisically our best user of the ball by foot - He is not the problem.

Eagleton's kicking has long been over-rated. Sure he gives it a hoof, but he isn't an accurate kick.



This was a polite way of saying, please do something about Mitch Hahn. If the match committee are not prepared to do something about players who are not performing, then at least have a better role for them, or put them as interchange players. Our approach has become a bit predictable.

Seeing as though Hahn is highly regarded by the MC what do you see as a different role he can fill?



Everitt, Moles, we have quite a few players with dash.

Everitt isn't fast, Moles has poor decision making skills and isn't a great kick - Which other players have dash??



How many games can you say we have put in 4 good quarters ? Name one? Even against Brisbane, the second quarter was won by them.

Yes, we haven't put in a good 4 quarter performance, but as I explained it isn't thru a lack of effort which you were implying.


I am talking about not panicking when tackled and giving off poor disposals. Saw a bit of that last week. Not being afraid to take on the man and work it through the zone now and then rather than trying to bomb it ( last week as an example )

We were quite often out-numbered around the contest so invariably we were forced to give off the ball or risk being penalised. If our players ran to support their team-mate rather than getting forward of the ball we may see some improvement. There is a balance between thinking your team-mate will be able to break thru a zone and doing it and at the moment we have too much confidence in this occuring and it isn't warranted.

[Ghost Dog]

We don't need to bring in players to improve our kicking. Players who are normally very good with the ball have been poor. They need to lift.


Gilbee ( who I like, but to illustrate a point ) has played 14 games and had 29 tackles.
Eagleton, who has played 8 games has laid 21 tackles.

Moles has only played 6 games for a total of 25 tackles.

Tackling was the only stat we were beaten on last week. Hawks were more desperate, with better pressure. We could use some of that. IMO,

[Ghost Dog]

[QUOTE=Mantis;162914]No it doesn't - Here is why.



Besides Morris & Williams who dispose of the ball by foot with minimal risk (invariably a short pass sideways) Gilbee is still statisically our best user of the ball by foot - He is not the problem.

Statistics sometimes don't tell the full story. Players can rack up stats in Q4 junk time. It's kicks under pressure that hit targets that count. In short, our kicking is down across the board.

Seeing as though Hahn is highly regarded by the MC what do you see as a different role he can fill?

Do you think he deserves to be in the team at the moment?


Everitt isn't fast, Moles has poor decision making skills and isn't a great kick - Which other players have dash??

I am in the process of trying to get some trials stats for him, but I feel you are underrating him.

Here is St Kilda's Draft report on him when clubs became interested in him.

Andrejs Everitt
193cms
75kgs
Pro's
• Big leap
• Versatile
• Good kick
• Leg speed
• Athletic
Weakness
• Skinny
• Outside player
• Body-on-body
• Fades in and out of matches


Find me some time trial stats ( currently searching for some) and I will disagree.

Yes, we haven't put in a good 4 quarter performance, but as I explained it isn't thru a lack of effort which you were implying.

There have been quarters quite a few slow starts and ones where we dropped off. Brisbane, etc etc. We were beaten in tackles last week.

[Mantis]

^^^

Rather than to continue take you to task any more GD I will add just a couple more points:

Statistics sometimes don't tell the full story. Players can rack up stats in Q4 junk time. It's kicks under pressure that hit targets that count. In short, our kicking is down across the board.

You said Gilbee was having a bad year kicking wise, he isn't. Yes our kicking is down, but Gilbee is not one of the culprits. You should be pointing your finger at Boyd, Griffen, Higgins & Cooney amongst others.

Do you think he (Hahn) deserves to be in the team at the moment?

If you go back thru the ins & outs thread I have been asking for Hahn to be demoted for some time.

I am in the process of trying to get some trials stats for him, but I feel you are underrating him

The coach believes that speed isn't an asset of Everitt's - That'll do me.

Tackling was the only stat we were beaten on last week. Hawks were more desperate, with better pressure. We could use some of that. IMO

We did not lose last weeks game because of poor tackling. We lost last weeks game because we used the ball very poorly. Sure sticking one or two more tackles would have helped (ie. Cooney's miss on Hodge), but if we used the ball properly we would have won by 20+ points and wouldn't have had to worry about a couple of missed tackles.

Over and out.

---------------------

Good preview RJ and sorry to derail this thread.

As we all know super important game. We MUST use the ball better than in previous weeks because as we have seen in previous years Carlton's out-riders (Scotland, Simpson, Gibbs, etc) will cut us to shreds if we dispose of the ball poorly.

I would think the playing futures of 3 or 4 players could hinge on a better performance this week, but I guess the team selections may give us a better guide to the thinking of the MC.

At our stage of development we simply can't get beat by teams like Carlton and if we do their will be some real unhappy campers amongst the Bulldog folk.... But in saying that I am confident that we will respond well and notch up a much needed 'W'.

[bulldogsman]

I’m really not sure how to use Picken this week.

Kade Simpson looks the obvious outside match up and I am normally not a fan of tagging accumulators of the ball who get the ball through a lot of hard running. That being said, Picken’s role on Bateman earlier in the season was fantastic and really helped us get over the line. I think Cross is another option for Simpson if Gibbs spends most of his time down back.

Is Murphy injured???

I'm pretty sure Picken usually tags Murphy.

[Ozza]

I just hope we 'spread' better this week. we seem to have dropped off in that regard.

Its all well and good to win more of the contested ball - but when you have nobody to kick to or nobody to link up with around the contest; having won the ball in the first place is pretty futile.

I'm hoping it is a more open game, and that we can hold our structure up forward a bit.

[Ghost Dog]

Agree to disagree Mantis. I am yet to find one quote from Eade that comments on Everitt's speed as a player, so I can't accept that view at the moment, but if you can find one I would be interested in reading it.

Apologies for getting off thread. Thanks for the great match preview.

[The Coon Dog]

I am yet to find one quote from Eade that comments on Everitt's speed as a player,

Trust me, GD, if Mantis said the coach said it, the coach said it.

[LostDoggy]

I just hope we 'spread' better this week. we seem to have dropped off in that regard.

Its all well and good to win more of the contested ball - but when you have nobody to kick to or nobody to link up with around the contest; having won the ball in the first place is pretty futile.

I'm hoping it is a more open game, and that we can hold our structure up forward a bit.

Agree entirely with this post.

I reckon we have been poor for sometime in creating a spread from centre bounces, in particular. We are a long way behind Geelong in this regard.

The only way we can hold our structure up forward is to move quickly back from the zone. We haven't ever been good at that.

[Desipura]

Agree to disagree Mantis. I am yet to find one quote from Eade that comments on Everitt's speed as a player, so I can't accept that view at the moment, but if you can find one I would be interested in reading it.

Apologies for getting off thread. Thanks for the great match preview.
Ghost dog, whilst you put alot of effort in your posts with your stats, you tend to go off the track.
Also stats are not the be all and end all. You seem to refer to the stats to back up your argument. When you are questioned, you tend to go off the track again.
Personally Im finding it difficult to read your posts. I do like your passion though and hope you do not take offence.
Maybe more substance and less detail.

[Mantis]

Agree entirely with this post.

I reckon we have been poor for sometime in creating a spread from centre bounces, in particular. We are a long way behind Geelong in this regard.

The only way we can hold our structure up forward is to move quickly back from the zone. We haven't ever been good at that.

Our game style at present is one of closing up space all over the ground. When the ball is in our defence our forwards push up the ground. If/ when we win the ball we have no space for our players to move into and due to our forwards positioning, the lack of agility & pace of our forwards and our poor skills we can't win the ball across HF and if we do we have nothing further afield.

As suggested we aren't getting enough movement from our wing/ HF types which doesn't help in our ability to spread the ball.

[Desipura]

Trust me, GD, if Mantis said the coach said it, the coach said it.
I would think most, if not all of the posters on here quoted the coach, it would be accurate. There are a number of well informed posters on this forum.

[EasternWest]

Trust me, GD, if Mantis said the coach said it, the coach said it.

Does the coach maybe ever just tell us what we want to hear? Keep the people from revolt?

I'm not suggesting Eade lies, but all coaches employ spin when it suits them. Does he sometimes give us the bad oil knowing it will circulate?

I'm not questioning peoples relationships or casting aspersions, I just think it pays to sometimes be wary of what you're hearing.

Maybe it's just because I'm a cynic?

[Desipura]

Does the coach maybe ever just tell us what we want to hear? Keep the people from revolt?

I'm not suggesting Eade lies, but all coaches employ spin when it suits them. Does he sometimes give us the bad oil knowing it will circulate?

I'm not questioning peoples relationships or casting aspersions, I just think it pays to sometimes be wary of what you're hearing.

Maybe it's just because I'm a cynic?
Fair call IMHO

[Ozza]

As suggested we aren't getting enough movement from our wing/ HF types which doesn't help in our ability to spread the ball.

Worst example in last Friday's match was when Johnson tried to make the play coming out of defence. Higgins and Murphy (Higgins in particular in this case) just had to double back and lead for Johnson - but both players were trotting away from Johnno towards our 50. Was really poor awareness from both players and made Johnson look silly when he was caught. At no point was Johnson given a good option to kick to.

[The Coon Dog]

Does the coach maybe ever just tell us what we want to hear? Keep the people from revolt?

I'm not suggesting Eade lies, but all coaches employ spin when it suits them. Does he sometimes give us the bad oil knowing it will circulate?

I'm not questioning peoples relationships or casting aspersions, I just think it pays to sometimes be wary of what you're hearing.

Maybe it's just because I'm a cynic?
The point I was making was that Ghost Dog couldn't find anywhere that Rocket he said Everitt was slow as Mantis had claimed & I'm saying, just because it's not in print, doesn't mean it wasn't said & knowing Mantis as I do, if he said Rocket said it, then that's good enough for me.

[Dazza]

Worst example in last Friday's match was when Johnson tried to make the play coming out of defence. Higgins and Murphy (Higgins in particular in this case) just had to double back and lead for Johnson - but both players were trotting away from Johnno towards our 50. Was really poor awareness from both players and made Johnson look silly when he was caught. At no point was Johnson given a good option to kick to.

He also bounced the ball 7-8 times in the space of 35 metres. I was a little confused at what he was doing.

[Mantis]

Worst example in last Friday's match was when Johnson tried to make the play coming out of defence. Higgins and Murphy (Higgins in particular in this case) just had to double back and lead for Johnson - but both players were trotting away from Johnno towards our 50. Was really poor awareness from both players and made Johnson look silly when he was caught. At no point was Johnson given a good option to kick to.

Higgins movement or lack there of are a real concern. Not knowing the extent of his injuries and whether they are causing severe discomfort he is really stationary at present. He is just 'hanging out' waiting for the easy kicks and doesn't seem all that interested in doing some 'donkey work'.

I guess if his skills were still at a high level it might be ok, but they aren't and all the bad habits he has are becoming much more evident.

[Rocco Jones]

As suggested we aren't getting enough movement from our wing/ HF types which doesn't help in our ability to spread the ball.

Hopefully Bobby spending more time forward will help us out in that department.

[Ghost Dog]

Trust me, GD, if Mantis said the coach said it, the coach said it.
Sure. Respect if that is true. But, Got any proof of that? When was it said? What was said?
Be fair, this is an anon forum.
Unless you have an attributed quote, fact or statistic, everything else is just opinion, rumor and hearsay and it's unfair to call rank unless you can back it up.

[Rocco Jones]

Is Murphy injured???

I'm pretty sure Picken usually tags Murphy.

No, he came back from injury last week.

Last time we played them Picken was part of a tag team job with Boyd on Judd. Murphy was ordinary in his first game back and he probably spends too much time 'inside' to suit a Picken tag. Maybe a run with role on him, but eventually you just need to back your own players because tagging/having run withs is a sacrifice to your own ability to win the ball.

[Mantis]

Sure. Respect if that is true. But, Got any proof of that? When was it said? What was said?
Be fair, this is an anon forum.
Unless you have an attributed quote, fact or statistic, everything else is just opinion, rumor and hearsay and it's unfair to call rank unless you can back it up.

Without saying too much Eade was asked to why Everitt wasn't being trialled on a wing, he replied that the MC don't think he is quite quick enough... I don't have any links, or quotes, or the like... you will just have to go on my word, and hopefully my word is pretty good.

[Mantis]

Hopefully Bobby spending more time forward will help us out in that department.

As I have posted somewhere, if we learnt anything last week it is that Murph has to play as forward.. but I guess this is even more the case on big grounds such as the 'G.

[The Pie Man]

As I have posted somewhere, if we learnt anything last week it is that Murph has to play as forward.. but I guess this is even more the case on big grounds such as the 'G.

What we really need is two of them!

[Rocco Jones]

Without saying too much Eade was asked to why Everitt wasn't being trialled on a wing, he replied that the MC don't think he is quite quick enough... I don't have any links, or quotes, or the like... you will just have to go on my word, and hopefully my word is pretty good.

Your word when it comes to what Eade has said or plans to do is proven.

When it comes to playing on off a wing I think you need to either have great pace or a great tank and Dre has neither. I guess not being 'quite quick enough' (or the like) isn't bad for a tall but I guess the point still remains.

It appears very difficult to find a role that maximises Dre's strengths and minmises his weakness. I think confidence is an enormous factor with him as there is such a fine line between him being too physical small or immobile and him exposing opponents for size or mobility. Goddard had similar issues for a while, I wouldn't made the same return!

[mjp]

It appears very difficult to find a role that maximises Dre's strengths and minmises his weakness.

Somewhere on the ground would be a start. :-)

[stefoid]

He also bounced the ball 7-8 times in the space of 35 metres. I was a little confused at what he was doing.

waiting for an option to kick it to? If youre under no pressure, you might as well have a bounce while you can, so that if you do have to scoot, you can scoot your full distance. trouble is, no option presented in time.

[EasternWest]

The point I was making was that Ghost Dog couldn't find anywhere that Rocket he said Everitt was slow as Mantis had claimed & I'm saying, just because it's not in print, doesn't mean it wasn't said & knowing Mantis as I do, if he said Rocket said it, then that's good enough for me.


Without saying too much Eade was asked to why Everitt wasn't being trialled on a wing, he replied that the MC don't think he is quite quick enough... I don't have any links, or quotes, or the like... you will just have to go on my word, and hopefully my word is pretty good.

No qualms with Mantis passing on what he's been told, I don't doubt his credibility at all, and I would never ask him to compromise his position or trust.

I just don't always believe what comes from a coaches mouth to be gospel. What is said and done behind closed doors and what is passed on to a member of a fan operated forum may not always be the same thing!

[stefoid]

Everitts goal kicking from range on the lope could be a real weapon. That puts him on a HFF for mine.

[ledge]

Well there is a thought maybe Everitt could replace Hill as the floating in tall, I do believe Everitt looks more urgent than Hill when the opposition gets it in our forward line.

[Ghost Dog]

Ghost dog, whilst you put alot of effort in your posts with your stats, you tend to go off the track.
Also stats are not the be all and end all. You seem to refer to the stats to back up your argument. When you are questioned, you tend to go off the track again.
Personally Im finding it difficult to read your posts. I do like your passion though and hope you do not take offence.
Maybe more substance and less detail.

Then don't read them. Nobody makes you mate.

[Desipura]

Then don't read them. Nobody makes you mate.
Im not your mate.

[Greystache]

Ghost dog, whilst you put alot of effort in your posts with your stats, you tend to go off the track.
Also stats are not the be all and end all. You seem to refer to the stats to back up your argument. When you are questioned, you tend to go off the track again.
Personally Im finding it difficult to read your posts. I do like your passion though and hope you do not take offence.
Maybe more substance and less detail.

+1

Quality > Quantity

[Ghost Dog]

^_^ grumpy old bulldogs supporters. Gotta love em

[Greystache]

^_^ grumpy old bulldogs supporters. Gotta love em

I'm hardly old, and anything but grumpy, just finding some of these threads difficult to get through at the moment.

[Ghost Dog]

Apologies Grestache.

[Mofra]

Back on topic


Without saying too much Eade was asked to why Everitt wasn't being trialled on a wing, he replied that the MC don't think he is quite quick enough... I don't have any links, or quotes, or the like... you will just have to go on my word, and hopefully my word is pretty good.
I don't think any of the older forumites would doubt your word, but I do have one query.

Once the siren goes, is it Eade or the MC that organises positional changes? Surely Eade gets full say.
If (for example) a Hahn was to miss with Everitt brought in to play forward, there'd be nothing stopping Eade from throwing Everitt onto a wing during a rotation, surely?
If we had a midfield injury, I'd expect the rotations to be re-jigged anyway to keep guys fresh throughout the game, or those returning from injury (Ward, Higgins) close to their previously allotted minutes to ensure their recovery is a smooth one.

IIRC Everitt has been floating wingside at Willy and done well with his inside 50 delivery, which is an area we could really use some help in.

[Greystache]

It seems Carlton are focussing a lot of their attention on that big bloke wearing number 36. Who would've thought we'd see the day when a team are planning to try and combat a Full Back!!


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/blues-on-mission-to-stop-bulldog-brian-lake/story-e6frf9jf-1225889450553
*
CARLTON coaches have devoted much of their planning time this week to trying to think of ways to counter the impact of Bulldogs full-back Brian Lake.

Sunday's match at Etihad Stadium is crucial, with both sides on 8-6 records, sitting in fifth and sixth spots, with the Bulldogs ahead on percentage.

Lake was superb in the Dogs' narrow loss to Hawthorn last round, picking up a heap of the ball against Hawks star Lance Franklin to be his side's best player.

Blues coach Brett Ratten said today the Blues' match committee had been busy deciding whether to p a forward simply to try to blanket Lake, or whether to use his opponent in a more dangerous role.

"Lake is a real key to them and how do you absorb him and make him responsible for someone, or how do you use his opponent to maybe get into the game, he's in fantastic form," Ratten said.

"Even last week against probably the best forward in the competition, he was outstanding, so he's pretty critical to their team."

He even threw up the unlikely option of sticking Blues midfield superstar Chris Judd up forward to try to cause Lake some trouble.

"I don't know what Juddy's doing this week, but we might throw him down there to see if he can soak up Brian," Ratten said.

[Ghost Dog]

Judd against Lake!

[Desipura]

if our midfielders apply enough pressure to their midfields to kick long into their forward line, Lake could be looking at an all time high "most marks he has ever taken in a match."

[Rocco Jones]

As I mentioned in my OP I think Lake can really take advantage of the Blues not having a quality tall forward option. He could make work for our small defenders a lot easier by starving their small forwards of potential crumbs. If Lake is on, the Blues delivery inside 50 will have to be precise. Hopefully our midfield can apply enough pressure on theirs to make this very difficult.

Further on Lake, he is taking over from Scarlett as the great modern day fullback. A good fullback stops his opponent but a great modern day fullback does that as well as zoning off to create rebound and help out his fellow defenders. It's such an invaluable ability especially when coming up against an ordinary tall forward.

[Rocco Jones]

One point I would like some further discussion on is Shaggy.

As I mentioned in the OP, the Blues have a tall or small forward like which deprives Shaggy of a medium option.

After two fantastic seasons he is really struggling for form this year. I think the greatest value Shaggy has provided is freeing up the rest of the backline to play on their ideal opponent as Shaggy is such an all-rounder as a defender.

Do we play Shaggy on Henderson or Setanta which frees up Morris to play on Betts? Obviously we can bring in Everitt or another tall defender to do that job but I think that would mean Wood is left without a immediate job down the chain.

As much as I prefer Morris on talls and Shaggy on smalls, I think that our match ups look better with Shaggy playing tall this week. I think it's a waste to have such a lock down type like Morris on Setanta or Henderson when Betts is so dangerous.

[Rocco Jones]

BULLDOGS
B: Jarrod Harbrow, Brian Lake, Ryan Hargrave
HB: Robert Murphy, Dale Morris, Lindsay Gilbee
C: Ryan Griffen, Matthew Boyd, Liam Picken
HF: Shaun Higgins, Brad Johnson, Brennan Stack
F: Jarrad Grant, Barry Hall, Daniel Giansiracusa
Foll: Ben Hudson, Daniel Cross, Adam Cooney
I/C from: Nathan Eagleton, Andrejs Everitt, Andrew Hooper, Jordan Roughead, Callan Ward, Tom Williams, Easton Wood.

In: T.Williams , B.Stack , A.Everitt , J.Roughead , A.Hooper , N.Eagleton
Out: Mitch Hahn (hamstring) , Will Minson (ankle) , Sam Reid (shoulder)

BLUES
B: Aaron Joseph, Bret Thornton, Michael Jamison
HB: Andrew Walker, Paul Bower, Jordan Russell
C: Andrew Carrazzo, Kade Simpson, Bryce Gibbs
HF: Jeff Garlett, Setanta O'hAilpin, Ryan Houlihan
F: Marc Murphy, Lachie Henderson, Eddie Betts
Foll: Sam Jacobs, Heath Scotland, Chris Judd
I/C (from): Dennis Armfield, Shaun Grigg, Shaun Hampson, Kane Lucas, Mitch Robinson, Simon Wiggins, Chris Yarran

In: Wiggins, Bower, Lucas
Out: Nil
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting to see Stack come straight into the starting 18. I think Ward, Wood and Roughead will play along with one of Everitt or Williams. Interesting to see what we do if Johnno doesn't come up. Structurally I would like to see the positive posters version of Hooper's type play but I don't know enough about him as a player to be honest.

If Bower actually players I think that will be a big inclusion for them providing rebound from defence and freeing up Gibbs to spend more time in the middle.

[Mofra]

If Bower actually players I think that will be a big inclusion for them providing rebound from defence and freeing up Gibbs to spend more time in the middle.
Bower is a big in, but theoretically with Hall & Thornton an easy choice, would Bower have to take the resting Roughy? If so that moves him closer to goal, hopefully reducing his impact as a rebounder.

Interesting with Stack in, Hahn out, potentially Hooper in, Grant playing - we will be much quicker in the F50 than in previous weeks. Eade backs us in for a shootout? It would allow Lake to get a heap of the ball and direct traffic with a fair bit of rebounding power in our back half.

[Jasper]

One point I would like some further discussion on is Shaggy.

As I mentioned in the OP, the Blues have a tall or small forward like which deprives Shaggy of a medium option.

As much as I prefer Morris on talls and Shaggy on smalls, I think that our match ups look better with Shaggy playing tall this week. I think it's a waste to have such a lock down type like Morris on Setanta or Henderson when Betts is so dangerous.

Ryan H on Ryan H would be a good fit.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Surprised at Hooper's inclusion, even if it's likely he won't play. I assume we've promoted him off the rookie list? Considering a lot of posters don't rate him, it definitely raises an eyebrow. I haven't seen him play but if he's consistently kicking 3 or so goals a week, he must be doing something right at VFL level.

If he plays, it'd probably be the most left field selection we've had at the club since I can remember.

[Mantis]

Ryan H on Ryan H would be a good fit.

Houlihan has been playing as a 'defensive forward' so he may try and get to Gilbee or Murphy (if he is in defence)

[Jasper]

Houlihan has been playing as a 'defensive forward' so he may try and get to Gilbee or Murphy (if he is in defence)

Spoilsport ruining the synchronicity...I agree, however physically Hargrave is a good matchup, and nothing to stop Ryan going to Ryan, even if Ryan goes to someone else.

[AndrewP6]

Surprised at Hooper's inclusion, even if it's likely he won't play. I assume we've promoted him off the rookie list?


Team list released today, yes he's been promoted, due to Ayce Cordy being placed on the LTI list:



BULLDOGS
B: Jarrod Harbrow, Brian Lake, Ryan Hargrave
HB: Robert Murphy, Dale Morris, Lindsay Gilbee
C: Ryan Griffen, Matthew Boyd, Liam Picken
HF: Shaun Higgins, Brad Johnson, Brennan Stack
F: Jarrad Grant, Barry Hall, Daniel Giansiracusa
Foll: Ben Hudson, Daniel Cross, Adam Cooney
I/C from: Nathan Eagleton, Andrejs Everitt, Andrew Hooper, Jordan Roughead, Callan Ward, Tom Williams, Easton Wood.

In: T.Williams , B.Stack , A.Everitt , J.Roughead , A.Hooper , N.Eagleton
Out: Mitch Hahn (hamstring) , Will Minson (ankle) , Sam Reid (shoulder)

[Rocco Jones]

Bower is a big in, but theoretically with Hall & Thornton an easy choice, would Bower have to take the resting Roughy? If so that moves him closer to goal, hopefully reducing his impact as a rebounder.


I think Jamison will go to Hall.

[Happy Days]

I think Jamison will go to Hall.

Jamison to Hall and Thornton to no-one.

[ledge]

I thought Ayce was on the long term injury list ages ago, do they mean Reid?

[The Coon Dog]

I thought Ayce was on the long term injury list ages ago, do they mean Reid?

No, they mean Ayce. Christian Howard was on the long term injury list ages ago, then when he resumed Shane Thorne was placed on it.

[mjp]

Wiggins killed us last year leading at the footy/making a contest from hf. Disappointed he is in.

[LostDoggy]

Wiggins killed us last year leading at the footy/making a contest from hf. Disappointed he is in.

No need to worry now, Wiggins named as an emergency. I would post the final listed teams, but I can't seem to copy text from the AFL website.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We've gone pretty tall with both Roughead and Williams being included. Carlton aren't exactly stocked for talls so it's somewhat surprising. Having said that, this gives us a great opportunity to throw Lake up forward and test Williams down back. In theory it may work but I can't help but think it's a short term fix. Against the better sides, Williams simply can't play #1 or #2 defender. I would of liked to see us trial Everitt or Jones in Hahn's role as a HF.

Good to see Roughy get another game and he'll be up against two other younger types in Jacobs and Hampson. Jacobs has improved a fair bit so it should be a good contest, and whilst Hampson can leap he's got 'raw ability' and not much else.

[Rocco Jones]

Western Bulldogs

B: Jarrod Harbrow, Brian Lake, Ryan Hargrave
HB: Robert Murphy, Dale Morris, Lindsay Gilbee
C: Ryan Griffen, Matthew Boyd, Liam Picken
HF: Shaun Higgins, Brad Johnson, Brennan Stack
F: Jarrad Grant, Barry Hall, Daniel Giansiracusa
Foll: Ben Hudson, Daniel Cross, Adam Cooney
I/C: Jordan Roughead, Callan Ward, Tom Williams, Easton Wood.

Emerg: Nathan Eagleton, Andrejs Everitt, Andrew Hooper

In: T.Williams , B.Stack, J.Roughead
Out: Mitch Hahn (hamstring) , Will Minson (ankle) , Sam Reid (shoulder)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I am not a big fan of what Williams brings to our team, I can see what the MC are thinking (or at least think I can). IMO our backline looks best when Dale is playing tall but this week I think it would be a waste to have such a quality lockdown defender on Setanta or Henderson. Williams can take one of them, freeing up Dale to play on their most dangerous forward in Betts as well as allowing Shaggy to play on a small. We can also send Lake forward at times when Setanta/Henderson are off the ground or we decided to play Shaggy or Dale on a tall.

Hall illness might also play a part. If he is out, I think we should play Lake forward and if he isn't '100%' (a working version of it anyway) then maybe he can do with a little help from Brian at times.

[Mantis]

We've gone pretty tall with both Roughead and Williams being included. Carlton aren't exactly stocked for talls so it's somewhat surprising. Having said that, this gives us a great opportunity to throw Lake up forward and test Williams down back. In theory it may work but I can't help but think it's a short term fix. Against the better sides, Williams simply can't play #1 or #2 defender. I would of liked to see us trial Everitt or Jones in Hahn's role as a HF.



Geelong - I would be happy for Williams to play on Pods, Morris to Mooney.

St.Kilda - Williams on Kosi, Morris to Riewoldt.

Collingwood - Williams on Dawes, Morris to Cloke.

Fremantle - Williams to Bradley, Morris to Pavlich.

Hawthorn would be the only team I would want Lake to play full time in defence.

[Rocco Jones]

Geelong - I would be happy for Williams to play on Pods, Morris to Mooney.

St.Kilda - Williams on Kosi, Morris to Riewoldt.

Collingwood - Williams on Dawes, Morris to Cloke.

Fremantle - Williams to Bradley, Morris to Pavlich.

Hawthorn would be the only team I would want Lake to play full time in defence.

You raise a great point Mantis.

What do posters rate higher; Lakes ability to dominate an opponent when playing back, keeping them quite while zoning off to take marks off opposition kicks, helping to create rebound and helping out his fellow defenders or having him as a key-forward along with Hall? IMO the most important type you can have is a key-forward. We know Lake is a gun KP defender, but his ability as a forward is less clear.

A lot also depends on the other guys around the 22 mark increasing or decreasing the value of a spot in the side.

At the very least I would like us to give Lake a bit more time forward to see what he can offer. We are a bit away from the main contenders, could be an area of invaluable improvement.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Geelong - I would be happy for Williams to play on Pods, Morris to Mooney.

St.Kilda - Williams on Kosi, Morris to Riewoldt.

Collingwood - Williams on Dawes, Morris to Cloke.

Fremantle - Williams to Bradley, Morris to Pavlich.

Hawthorn would be the only team I would want Lake to play full time in defence.

I think you're giving Williams a little too much credit, Mantis.

He coughed up 3? goals on Gumbleton earlier in the season. Gumby only had 5 or so possessions, but he out-pointed Williams in three or four critical marking contests.

Leigh Brown from Collingwood has kicked a couple on Williams too.

My point is, on paper Williams looks like a good fit for the above players. Unfortunately, he hasn't delivered at all. He really struggles with body positioning and reading of the play. Until he fixes this, he's always liable to leak goals on ordinary players let alone good players. Morris has been killed by Riewoldt too many times, and while he can play a role on him I think Lake needs to take his fair share of turns too. Similar to the PF where Lake gave Morris a chop out several times. Means Lake dominates Kosi and provides support/drive too.

I really hope Williams can hit form because it could potentially make a massive difference to our side. Possibly even 'season saving', but he's just not smart enough IMO.

[EasternWest]

We've gone pretty tall with both Roughead and Williams being included. Carlton aren't exactly stocked for talls so it's somewhat surprising. Having said that, this gives us a great opportunity to throw Lake up forward and test Williams down back. In theory it may work but I can't help but think it's a short term fix. Against the better sides, Williams simply can't play #1 or #2 defender. I would of liked to see us trial Everitt or Jones in Hahn's role as a HF.

Good to see Roughy get another game and he'll be up against two other younger types in Jacobs and Hampson. Jacobs has improved a fair bit so it should be a good contest, and whilst Hampson can leap he's got 'raw ability' and not much else.

An interesting point. Do you mean at this stage Williams is not capable or do you mean you don't think he'll ever be capable?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

An interesting point. Do you mean at this stage Williams is not capable or do you mean you don't think he'll ever be capable?

Certainly at this stage there's no reason to suggest he's capable. Whether or not he can develop into the player the club originally hoped for, I don't know.

Not sure you can teach a player to perfect the art of reading the play and positioning his body better. You can improve it, but to the extent that he can play on good to very good forwards? I'd say probably not.

Case in point is his game on Franklin in 2008. Everyone remembers it because it was probably one of his best games. Franklin did kick 5, though. Probably 3 of them were cheap, but this is the point entirely. Williams struggles with reading the play and is regularly caught out of position. They're only cheap goals if the defender isn't where he should be. Tommy did very well in the contested situations that day but Franklin still out-smarted him by waiting back off the contests etc.

I don't think this is an area Williams has improved in which is worrying. Granted he's missed so much football, that certainly doesn't help.

As I said though - I hope Williams can prove me wrong.

[EasternWest]

Thanks TBB. I pretty much agree with everything you say. Particularly the proving us wrong part.

[Ghost Dog]

Certainly at this stage there's no reason to suggest he's capable. Whether or not he can develop into the player the club originally hoped for, I don't know.

Not sure you can teach a player to perfect the art of reading the play and positioning his body better. You can improve it, but to the extent that he can play on good to very good forwards? I'd say probably not.



Any coaching staff / people with experience in training backs / ex players here like to comment on this? Interesting point. Would be frustrating, having invested, not to get a return on Williams.

[Mantis]

I think you're giving Williams a little too much credit, Mantis.

He coughed up 3? goals on Gumbleton earlier in the season. Gumby only had 5 or so possessions, but he out-pointed Williams in three or four critical marking contests.

Leigh Brown from Collingwood has kicked a couple on Williams too.

My point is, on paper Williams looks like a good fit for the above players. Unfortunately, he hasn't delivered at all. He really struggles with body positioning and reading of the play. Until he fixes this, he's always liable to leak goals on ordinary players let alone good players. Morris has been killed by Riewoldt too many times, and while he can play a role on him I think Lake needs to take his fair share of turns too. Similar to the PF where Lake gave Morris a chop out several times. Means Lake dominates Kosi and provides support/drive too.

I really hope Williams can hit form because it could potentially make a massive difference to our side. Possibly even 'season saving', but he's just not smart enough IMO.

I fully understand where Williams is at, but with some better positioning Williams can be effective in defence. Too often he stands in front of his opponent and loses body contact. He then tries to find his opponent, but in the process takes his eyes from the ball and then he is stuffed. He needs to play from behind at all times.

As RJ points out (and you have acknowledged) we have to try something. At present we have just one or two of our forwards who look like beating his direct opponent and without the ball being provided on a silver platter we aren't going to kick a winning score against quality opposition. So we either throw Lake forward to give Hall a hand or we hope like hell that the likes of Higgins, Johnson. Hahn, etc find a way to have an impact.

At some point the kiddy gloves have to be taken off Williams - I think that time is now.

[LostDoggy]

I fully understand where Williams is at, but with some better positioning Williams can be effective in defence. Too often he stands in front of his opponent and loses body contact. He then tries to find his opponent, but in the process takes his eyes from the ball and then he is stuffed. He needs to play from behind at all times.

As RJ points out (and you have acknowledged) we have to try something. At present we have just one or two of our forwards who look like beating his direct opponent and without the ball being provided on a silver platter we aren't going to kick a winning score against quality opposition. So we either throw Lake forward to give Hall a hand or we hope like hell that the likes of Higgins, Johnson. Hahn, etc find a way to have an impact.

At some point the kiddy gloves have to be taken off Williams - I think that time is now.


It might be a silly question, but is there any chance he can be tried as a forward?

[Hotdog60]

With Lake going forward, although he's a strong marking option I don't like his kicking for set shots. Most good forwards tend to run straight with their approach, Brian has this run sideways and kick across his body which I think lends itself to inaccuracy.