Eade Article - Confirms Suspicions, Raises More Concerns

[Jasper]

Eade: We can win it http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/rodney-eade-we-can-win-it/story-e6frf9jf-1225890025749

Raises More Concerns

Eade is applying spin but comments such as

"I spoke to the players on Monday. I came away from Friday night's game with more confidence than if we won by two, or three points. (A win) might've cracked over some issues we've got. There is enormous upside to the way we're playing. "


On Higgins

"His ball use is unusual because he's such a good user ... yeah, I don't know why."

Rodney if you don't know the issues by now we are in real trouble.

On Hahn

He's struggling a bit. He's a player you have confidence in. I hate the word, but he has credits, as such. We've tried Mitch down back, which we've been pleased with, and we were pleased with his West Coast game, but (he) struggled last Friday night.

There comes a time with every player, whether it's Mitch Hahn or Brad Johnson or Jason Akermanis, or whether it's Josh Hill, there comes a time when you say, 'OK, the best thing for you and for the team is you have to go back (to the VFL)'. We've spoken to Mitch about where he's at.

What he brings to the side is a plus and he needs to bring that on. He needs to find the ball, and his tackling has dropped away. I'm confident he can turn it around.



Aother concern, this reference to credits underlines Eade's approach, and is great with players in their mid to late twenties, but comes unstuck when the player has reached their use by date. Hahn is perhaps the greatest example of this misplaced faith, and Eade's outright refusal to pick teams based on form. We have too many players with credit in the bank and if Eade continues to play out of form/unfit footballers in clutch games (and every game is that from here on) then we are cooked.

I would also suggest that we are at risk of losing Everitt at a minimum come trade week if some faith isn't shown in him soon. And one would suggest that some of this credit issue is more of a 'favourites' issue when one considers the disproportionate faith shown in Williams/Stack as opposed to Everitt.

Q - Going to be a good finals series if you finish fifth.

Eade - Bloody oath it is.

Not for us. No chance without a break in a final series when the game has reached unprecendented intensity levels and will only get more intense in finals. Super.

Finally, dodged the question of mental fragility as you would expect.

Basically Eade seems puzzled by our lack of good ball use, and is applying spin everywhere implying it was good to lose to Hawthorn and great if we finish 5th.

Confirm suspicions

He doesn't rate Hill's workrate, and he won't be playing much until this is fixed

Contrary to some views expressed here.. Eade called Everitt a wingman or half back, and stated he is no good as a leading forward

Confirmed J Grant is a permanent fixture

Only believes Johnno, Hahn and Aker can play together if they are all at maximum intensity

Higgins had OP over summer

Would like two Murphy's confirming in effect that he will continue to play as a swingman - which I like.


After that interview, and I recall hearing Smorgo say anything less than a GF would be a failure, I am thinking that the board needs to look at a new coach as early as next year.

In saying this can I say I have never been against Eade and believe he has not put a foot wrong in his recruiting and delisting of players (possibly not recruiting a pacy small forward read to go but Thorne may have been this), but would suggest some players have not developed as well as they should, and this year at least many have gone backwards (Boyd, Higgins, and the oldies). The inability to perform in big games continues to cruel us and a change of coach may also address.

Anyway as Eade says its only Round 15, but not making to a PF or an honourable loss in a PF (or a thrashing as our tired team is overrun by a fresher opposition) may/should not be enough for Eade to retain his position.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

I thought it was a GREAT article, gave me a lot of HOPE all is not lost. And I BACK Rocket to the hilt that he knows our players WAY better than any of us do.

[LostDoggy]

How about a fit Picken in his first 7 or 8 each week when it comes to the 22.

[EasternWest]

I thought it was a GREAT article, gave me a lot of HOPE all is not lost. And I BACK Rocket to the hilt that he knows our players WAY better than any of us do.

Wow. True believer.

[Mantis]

Wow. True believer.

You're not?

If not, why?

[stefoid]

We arent leaking as many goals as we used to, thats a something that has gone to plan this season.

[Go_Dogs]

I think the 'bloody oath it is' may be in reference to the finals generally, the fact that we were so highly fancied and perhaps may only finish 5th or so, means that the league as a whole has improved a bunch again. Due to the evenness between all of the top sides (and probably gap between them and the rest) means that it should be a cracking finals series.


It's a very interesting time for us, but if we don't win the flag this year I think we can remain competitive particularly over the short term. We've been without a lot of the players who will be moving on at years end for large chunks of the season, and our younger players have had some solid opportunities.

If we were going to be re-building and turning over perhaps half the list or more in the next couple of drafts, then perhaps it's a route we'd look into. At this current point in time, I still think Eade is the best option to lead the Dogs.

It's definitely one to give more consideration after the season too, IMO.

[Before I Die]

I thought it was a GREAT article, gave me a lot of HOPE all is not lost. And I BACK Rocket to the hilt that he knows our players WAY better than any of us do.

I also thought it was a great article. Addressed all the burning issues and I was very happy with the answers. With Eade's honest and forthright answers I now feel confident that I understand the reasons behind various selections and non-selections.

I disagree completely with the OP.

[Desipura]

I must say it did not give me a great deal of confidence reading this.

[EasternWest]

You're not?

If not, why?

Because blind faith does nobody any good. I want to believe, but questions need asking.

It's ludicrous to say Hahn has credits. I love what Mitch has been able to do but he hasn't looked the same since Hall ko'ed him. But to put someone in a team because of what they accomplished in the past (and haven't even looked like replicating) is crazy. If the job isn't being done, something has to change.

Why is Higgins still playing? He's clearly injured/unfit. Why can't Everitt get a game? Why does Stack get a game?

I don't know. I don't have the answers and I'm not privy to the inner workings of course. If everything was going swimmingly I probably would have more faith, but it seems like a few lingering issues continue to remain, and I'm not willing to just accept that whatever the coaches decide is always the right thing.

[LostDoggy]

Why would we get overrun and cop a thrashing from a fresher team in a PF? Weve played every week of the finals the last two years and faced a fresher team in the PF anyway and gone with them both times. All that changes finishing fifth is that you play a top four side weeks 2 and 3 instead of weeks 1 and 3.
2 years in a row we have put everything into the first final and lost. If Geelong and Magpies play the first final they would nearly kill each other to win knowing the loser had to play us. I'd love to have a crack at the pies after geelong bruised them, remember Adelaide last year, I'd really fancy our chances. ;)

[Grantysghost]

For me it re-enforced the suspicion that the coaches believed we could not go all the way leaking as many goals as we have in the past couple of seasons.
I guess the question is have we gone too far the other way, getting that balance right for the rest of the season will determine how far we go. Rectifying obvious deficiencies so far this season eg lack of crumbing forward, delivery inside 50, forward pressure will hopefully swing the old see-saw back to the middle.

[Rocco Jones]

A lot of posters are either ingrained positive or negative types and will take what they want out of the article.


I thought it was a GREAT article, gave me a lot of HOPE all is not lost. And I BACK Rocket to the hilt that he knows our players WAY better than any of us do.

I really struggle with this 'he/they know best' line. Does that mean we can't question the coach/MC because they simply know best? Not saying I agree with what Kelvinator had to say but he is explaining his beliefs rather than just giving us positive/negative one liners with capital letters replacing well thought ideas.

I rate Eade's opinion on our list very higher than anyone else's but I also my own free thought.

[GVGjr]

I must say it did not give me a great deal of confidence reading this.

I'm a little the same. Still it probably comes down to this weekends results for me to think we are back on the right track.

[AndrewP6]

As an aside, why doesn't the "Staff Writer" get their name credited? I'm no journalist, always wondered about this. According to Wikipedia (and yes, I know it's not to be trusted! :) ) a staff writer is employed as a regular staff member - yet they don't get their name in print?

[azabob]

As an aside, why doesn't the "Staff Writer" get their name credited? I'm no journalist, always wondered about this. According to Wikipedia (and yes, I know it's not to be trusted! :) ) a staff writer is employed as a regular staff member - yet they don't get their name in print?

At the start of the article it states MR. I would think Mark Robinson did this interview. Can't be sure as I dont buy the current bun.

[AndrewP6]

At the start of the article it states MR. I would think Mark Robinson did this interview. Can't be sure as I dont buy the current bun.

Ah yes, so it does. That solves it!

[Ghost Dog]

Good interview. Agree with you on Everitt.




After that interview, and I recall hearing Smorgo say anything less than a GF would be a failure,



"If we finish eighth, seventh, sixth, fifth, fourth, third, second - we're not going to be happy." (Smorgan 2010 )**


" I am thinking that the board needs to look at a new coach as early as next year.

Would you also think this even if we won the flag?


Smorgon, D 2010 " Western Bulldogs president David Smorgan says club will resist hype"
<http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/rodney-eade-we-can-win-it/story-e6frf9jf-1225890025749>

[Before I Die]

I must say it did not give me a great deal of confidence reading this.

I think it all depends on what the confidence, or lack of confidence, refers to.

Confidence that we will win the premiership?
Confidence that we will finish top four?
Confidence that the the MC is doing the right thing?
Confidence that you now know why the MC is doing what it is doing?

For me, my confidence refers to the last of these options. Whether or not I agree with what they are doing is a different thing all together. Though, in my case, the clarification of the why, has also given me belief in the what.

I think we will struggle to make top four. I think we are unlikely to win the premiership. However, I think we are still in with a chance and I now believe I understand what the coach and MC are trying to achieve and I agree with it.

[Before I Die]

.

Why is Higgins still playing? He's clearly injured/unfit. Why can't Everitt get a game? Why does Stack get a game?



Err, aren't these the very things he has answered ??

[Ghost Dog]

I must say it did not give me a great deal of confidence reading this.

Why do you say this?

[Jasper]

"If we finish eighth, seventh, sixth, fifth, fourth, third, second - we're not going to be happy." (Smorgan 2010 )**



Would you also think this even if we won the flag?


Smorgon, D 2010 " Western Bulldogs president David Smorgan says club will resist hype"
<http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/rodney-eade-we-can-win-it/story-e6frf9jf-1225890025749>

No.

We aren't Collingwood where they've replaced the coach regardless of whether they win a flag. If you win a flag you have succeeded and have every right to continue as coach. Unless you are a Pies fan, its a pretty ridiculous question.

And not necessarily referring to GD here, I continue to be surprised that I keep getting suprised at the blind faith in the coaching staff exhibited by some fans. But then football is often spoken of as a religion, and religion is the only comparison I can see where people ignore facts, or don't even bother responding to them just dismissing them out of hand in order to shape the world to how think it should be, regardless of the reality. I am tipping Smorgo and Rose, as hard nosed businessman perhaps will take a different view.

For the record I have been impressed with Eade's work prior to this year, but to unquestionly believe and accept his every utterance as something coming from Moses on the mountain top, I find to be blindly ignorant. Anyway good luck to you.

[EasternWest]

Err, aren't these the very things he has answered ??

Not in my opinion. Some of those things he's commented on, but he hasn't answered them.

Doesn't know why Higgins is turning the ball over. I suspect he does, but doesn't let on.

He says where they see Everitt (wing/HB). Doesn't mention why he isn't playing.

Stack he doesn't mention at all.

So, no, these aren't the very things he's answered. Admittedly, they're not the questions he was asked either, but I'd love for him to say:

* Higgins is hurt and we feel it will be better for him and the club if we rest him (even if it means for the year, i don't want another year of Higgins not being as good as he could due to injury). Does anyone on this board think Higgins isn't hurt?

* Everitt is not playing because (insert reason here). Not some wishy-washy, "we see him on the blah blah blah".

* Stack is playing because (insert reason here). I for one haven't seen anything much from Stack that makes me think he adds a lot of value.

[Jasper]

I find it pretty disrespectful to the fans and the club for Eade to publicly suggest that the Hawks loss was a better thing than winning. Privately I assume he was shattered but I can only assume that. Eade is being disingenuous at best when he says something like this. More likely, I see a coach starting to lay groundwork to protect his position rather than demanding excellence and ultimate success.

[Ghost Dog]

No.

We aren't Collingwood where they've replaced the coach regardless of whether they win a flag. If you win a flag you have succeeded and have every right to continue as coach. Unless you are a Pies fan, its a pretty ridiculous question.

And not necessarily referring to GD here, I continue to be surprised that I keep getting suprised at the blind faith in the coaching staff exhibited by some fans.

Don't worry. No blind faith in any individual here, but ultimate faith in the club as a whole. I am frustrated on a number of counts with MC and Coach.

I wasn't having a go at you with your issue re replacing the coach early next year if we lost. Was just interested to know.

[Rocco Jones]

I find it pretty disrespectful to the fans and the club for Eade to publicly suggest that the Hawks loss was a better thing than winning. Privately I assume he was shattered but I can only assume that. He is being disingenuous at best when says something like this. More likely, I see a coach starting to lay groundwork to protect his position rather than demanding excellence and ultimate success.

I didn't like that comment either.

To be fair to Eade, I thought he was honest in that interview. It might be annoying to hear about Hahn having credits but it's obvious that he felt that otherwise he would have dropped him awhile back. It's still an error IMO but I am not the type to lay the boots in extra hard when someone is honestly stating something I disagree with when they are doing it anyway.

I am also not that anti 'credits'. Sure it's a bad thing in the context a lot of fans use it, as in carrying a player because of what he has done in the past but I don't think (or hope) Eade means it this way. Sockeye made a great call about a player being 'only as good as his next game' and it's up to the coach and MC to predict this. A player's history obviously comes into this. If they are proven at the level, these 'credits' are valid. The thing is though, I think Hahn is a different player to the one that earned these credits.

[Jasper]

Don't worry. No blind faith in any individual here, but ultimate faith in the club as a whole. I am frustrated on a number of counts with MC and Coach.

I wasn't having a go at you with your issue re replacing the coach early next year if we lost. Was just interested to know.

The implication in your question was that I have it in for the coach. And I haven't to date. But we have slipped and unless Eade pulls a rabbit out of his hat he should be scrutinised.

Now Eade probably realises that and has come up with blatant spin doctoring bullshit lines that has really annoyed me. In fact I am starting to get worked up...

Time to stop now.

[Jasper]

I am also not that anti 'credits'. Sure it's a bad thing in the context a lot of fans use it, as in carrying a player because of what he has done in the past but I don't think (or hope) Eade means it this way. Sockeye made a great call about a player being 'only as good as his next game' and it's up to the coach and MC to predict this. A player's history obviously comes into this. If they are proven at the level, these 'credits' are valid. The thing is though, I think Hahn is a different player to the one that earned these credits.

And now you've set me off again...I started a post about Hahn needing to go a couple months ago, and copped some of the most ill informed blinkered criticism I have seen since Ernie Sigley stopped posting.

Now is there anyone...anyone at all who believe Hahn on current form should be in the team? No I thought not....I have to stop..my twins are starting smash each other..in the head.

[Ghost Dog]

The implication in your question was that I have it in for the coach. And I haven't to date. But we have slipped and unless Eade pulls a rabbit out of his hat he should be scrutinised.

Now Eade probably realises that and has come up with blatant spin doctoring bullshit lines that has really annoyed me. In fact I am starting to get worked up...

Time to stop now.

No, Kelvinator. It was not meant with that intent. All clubs have succession plans and phase one coach in, and another out. Was just interested to know your thoughts.

[EasternWest]

And now you've set me off again...I started a post about Hahn needing to go a couple months ago, and copped some of the most ill informed blinkered criticism I have seen since Ernie Sigley stopped posting.

Now is there anyone...anyone at all who believe Hahn on current form should be in the team? No I thought not....I have to stop..my twins are starting smash each other..in the head.

Where is Ern? I miss his knee-jerking.

[The Coon Dog]

The implication in your question was that I have it in for the coach. And I haven't to date. But we have slipped and unless Eade pulls a rabbit out of his hat he should be scrutinised.

Now Eade probably realises that and has come up with blatant spin doctoring bullshit lines that has really annoyed me. In fact I am starting to get worked up...

Time to stop now.

Why should a coach come out & say something if he doesn't want to?

Let's say for example we have a player like Everitt who knows why he isn't in the seniors & the coach has made it clear to him why. Now, say for example that Everitt may be the type of kid who responds a certain way & that way involves keeping things in house.

What value then would there be for the coach publicly airing something a player didn't want aired?

I'm using that analogy purely as an example. I guess I'm trying to say that there may be reasons, justifiable ones too why an AFL coach (of all 16 teams) may not publicly say something.

I think these days with press saturation & the internet, we have never had as much access to information as we do today.

Sometimes supporters want much more, no matter how much they are given.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

As I said on the other forum, it was a very good interview.

I'm not surprised there's a few who aren't too happy with it though. You need to put it into perspective - Eade cannot say to the media what he may be saying to the players. As a coach, it's his job to remain calm and confident. If he shows signs of panic, the players are only going to absorb his energy and take it into the rest of the season. If nobody has any confidence in anybody, we're stuffed and might as well throw the white towel in. To think that Eade is going to come out and say that Johnson/Hahn/Aker might be finished, or that Higgins is struggling and shouldn't be playing, isn't being realistic.

I certainly disagree with Hahn having credits - he's never been a consistent performer to begin with and has been horrible all year (to say the least). This is an area Eade has too much faith in, and it's his biggest fault IMO.

It's rare you'll ever find yourself agreeing with everything a coach says. Especially in a time like this. That's why it's his job to keep or lose. However, I personally think he handled it well. No doubt he didn't tell the entire truth, but he still spoke freely enough and got his message across; we have areas to improve (Eg. Cooney not rushing his disposal) and we can still make an impact. Players reading this/hearing this are being given a greater chance to get this season back on track.

If Eade came out and slashed players, said we're in huge trouble, that our list is overrated and we were making up the numbers - how would the players feel? They'd lose their faith in Eade and more importantly, themselves.

[Rocco Jones]

And now you've set me off again...I started a post about Hahn needing to go a couple months ago, and copped some of the most ill informed blinkered criticism I have seen since Ernie Sigley stopped posting.

Now is there anyone...anyone at all who believe Hahn on current form should be in the team? No I thought not....I have to stop..my twins are starting smash each other..in the head.

Kelvinator I agree with you views about Hahn. Without wanting to one up you (or say I was right) I posted last year about wanting Hahn out of the side.

Not sure if you thought I was having a go at you for your Hahn comments, I agree with you. My comments about credits were more about them not always being automatically wrong. But like I said, with Hahn the credits aren't really relevant as he is a different player to the one that earned them.

[EasternWest]

Why should a coach come out & say something if he doesn't want to?

Let's say for example we have a player like Everitt who knows why he isn't in the seniors & the coach has made it clear to him why. Now, say for example that Everitt may be the type of kid who responds a certain way & that way involves keeping things in house.

What value then would there be for the coach publicly airing something a player didn't want aired?

I'm using that analogy purely as an example. I guess I'm trying to say that there may be reasons, justifiable ones too why an AFL coach (of all 16 teams) may not publicly say something.

I think these days with press saturation & the internet, we have never had as much access to information as we do today.

Sometimes supporters want much more, no matter how much they are given.

A fair statement.

For mine, I pay my hard earned. My side is under performing, yet the same things are being done. I want to know why.

[Rocco Jones]

Why should a coach come out & say something if he doesn't want to?

Let's say for example we have a player like Everitt who knows why he isn't in the seniors & the coach has made it clear to him why. Now, say for example that Everitt may be the type of kid who responds a certain way & that way involves keeping things in house.



Good post.

TBH if anything I thought he was too honest about Everitt, saying his overhead marking on the lead wasn't strong.

FWIW I thought it was a good interview. The only comments I disagree with are ones about things I know he is doing anyway. I have had a go at him doing these things already, good on him for at least being honest about them.

[Ghost Dog]

The comments on 'credits', knew that would raise eyebrows.


The thing is though, I think Hahn is a different player to the one that earned these credits.


good point. sad thing is, after having his socket fractured by Barry,could have been put in seconds to find some form/ confidence then re-joined us later ( now ). They kept persisting, has not been the same ( IMO). Maybe he just needed a break. Low chance of contributing much at critical part of season, it seems, Hope to be proven wrong.

[Flamethrower]

Not in my opinion. Some of those things he's commented on, but he hasn't answered them.

Doesn't know why Higgins is turning the ball over. I suspect he does, but doesn't let on.

He says where they see Everitt (wing/HB). Doesn't mention why he isn't playing.

Stack he doesn't mention at all.

So, no, these aren't the very things he's answered. Admittedly, they're not the questions he was asked either, but I'd love for him to say:

* Higgins is hurt and we feel it will be better for him and the club if we rest him (even if it means for the year, i don't want another year of Higgins not being as good as he could due to injury). Does anyone on this board think Higgins isn't hurt?

* Everitt is not playing because (insert reason here). Not some wishy-washy, "we see him on the blah blah blah".

* Stack is playing because (insert reason here). I for one haven't seen anything much from Stack that makes me think he adds a lot of value.

Just reading between the lines of this article, other articles and some radio interviews, it seems that the club is no happy with the work ethic shown by Everitt and they are a little tired of making excuses for Higgins by saying he is injuerd all the time when he is just carrying the niggles that all players put up with during the season.

As for Stack there is the belief that as he gains experience he has the potential to turn into a game breaker similar to Travis Varcoe or Michael O'Loughlin. He has a stronger work ethic than Josh Hill but is still miles off where he needs to be.

[Jasper]

Why should a coach come out & say something if he doesn't want to?

Let's say for example we have a player like Everitt who knows why he isn't in the seniors & the coach has made it clear to him why. Now, say for example that Everitt may be the type of kid who responds a certain way & that way involves keeping things in house.

What value then would there be for the coach publicly airing something a player didn't want aired?

I'm using that analogy purely as an example. I guess I'm trying to say that there may be reasons, justifiable ones too why an AFL coach (of all 16 teams) may not publicly say something.

I think these days with press saturation & the internet, we have never had as much access to information as we do today.

Sometimes supporters want much more, no matter how much they are given.

I agree with you on the principles expressed. However they do not apply to the example quoted, Eade has stated that it was better to lose to Hawthorn than win, and that in my view is a different story to perhaps protecting a player's pride or dignity. What he has done is out and out mislead and misdirect people with that comment.

I'll be more blunt he was trying to chocolate coat a turd and tell me it was a Mars Bar. In this case, he could have been honest and protective of his players in saying. Yes we were disappointed to lose that critical game, however we have learnt from it and believe we can still make a run at the finals.

I'll go even further, I haven't seen a comment like this since Terry Wallace stopped coaching (and rationalising his poor performance immediately after he stopped coaching).

[Jasper]

Kelvinator I agree with you views about Hahn. Without wanting to one up you (or say I was right) I posted last year about wanting Hahn out of the side.

Not sure if you thought I was having a go at you for your Hahn comments, I agree with you. My comments about credits were more about them not always being automatically wrong. But like I said, with Hahn the credits aren't really relevant as he is a different player to the one that earned them.

Rocco, I accept you weren't having a crack but I do recall you posting on the Hahn thread that you didn't agree with my views on Hahn but respected my right post. Ring any bells??

[Rocco Jones]

Rocco, I accept you weren't having a crack but I do recall you posting on the Hahn thread that you didn't agree with my views on Hahn but respected my right post. Ring any bells??

Yeah it does a bit but I am pretty sure it wouldn't have been directly about having Hahn in the side as I have wanted him out of the side for over a year now. I don't know, perhaps it was a rare week where I thought Mitch was a decent option.

[Ghost Dog]

Agree and don't agree.


, Eade has stated that it was better to lose to Hawthorn than win, and that in my view is a different story to perhaps protecting a player's pride or dignity. What he has done is out and out mislead and misdirect people with that comment.



Eade: "I spoke to the players on Monday. I came away from Friday night's game with more confidence than if we won by two, or three points. (A win) might've cracked over some issues we've got. There is enormous upside to the way we're playing."


Not paraphrases. More confidence is a bit different than " better to lose".

On one hand, I guess I can see what Eade is trying to say. I side with you Kelv generally , the comment does not really satisfy us members, and smacks of spin.

However, it's a far cry from "better to lose" and I don't think Eade was claiming that it was better for us to lose.

In all, I am not happy to lose to Hawthorn anytime, anywhere for any reason.

[Jasper]

Yeah it does a bit but I am pretty sure it wouldn't have been directly about having Hahn in the side as I have wanted him out of the side for over a year now. I don't know, perhaps it was a rare week where I thought Mitch was a decent option.

08-05-2010, 08:55 PM
Rocco Jones
Bulldog Team of the Century Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,785

Re: Mitchell Hahn - Its Time to Go

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW I actually think Hahn had a good game against the Saints and think he will suit Sydney's style next week. Assuming he is fit (I think his game has a very small margin for error and should only be played when he is the practical version of 100%) I would definitely have him in the side ahead of Stack.



A rare week indeed

[Jasper]

Agree and don't agree.



Eade: "I spoke to the players on Monday. I came away from Friday night's game with more confidence than if we won by two, or three points. (A win) might've cracked over some issues we've got. There is enormous upside to the way we're playing."




I read that as saying we would have papered over the cracks in the team if we won - ergot it was preferable to lose

And he states he got more confidence from a win than a loss.

If that isn't chocolate coating turds and selling them as Mars Bars (just like Wallace) then nothing is.

Eade is lying plain and simple. And he is not lying to protect the team, he is lying to justify his failure to get the team to meet expectations.

As stated earlier I can handle the usual yep Johnno's 100% right to play and he doesn't. I can handle gilding the lily in defence of the team (like the Hall headlock). I won't tolerate self justification for mediocrity. THE END

[chef]

Wow. True believer.

I am too and will be until our season is officially over.

Does anyone know if Eade has ever coached from the boundary line?

[azabob]

I am too and will be until our season is officially over.

Does anyone know if Eade has ever coached from the boundary line?

He has not. As recently as last week he said he would not.

[Desipura]

Why do you say this?
Eade did not come accross that we will
finish 4th, hence why he made the comment we could do some damage from 5th
he does not know why Higgins kicking has deteriorated
the comment "a win might have cracked open some issues"
the Hahn comment about him having some credits in the bank.

[Rocco Jones]

08-05-2010, 08:55 PM
Rocco Jones
Bulldog Team of the Century Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,785

Re: Mitchell Hahn - Its Time to Go

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW I actually think Hahn had a good game against the Saints and think he will suit Sydney's style next week. Assuming he is fit (I think his game has a very small margin for error and should only be played when he is the practical version of 100%) I would definitely have him in the side ahead of Stack.



A rare week indeed

Yep, fair enough mate. I thought that was his best game for ages and the worst moment in about a year to call for his head. I definitely stick by my call to have him ahead of Stack after that game.

I can assure you though that I have wanted him outside of the side most games in the last season or so. I don't see things as black and white as you seem to do, so yes there are weeks I think he just falls into our best 22. Things aren't as dud or stud as a lot of fans seem to believe. You will have to take my word for that because I cannot be bothered bringing up all the posts where I have called for him to be dropped.

[Mantis]

Eade did not come accross that we will
finish 4th, hence why he made the comment we could do some damage from 5th
he does not know why Higgins kicking has deteriorated
the comment "a win might have cracked open some issues"
the Hahn comment about him having some credits in the bank.

Why has it deteriorated?

[Topdog]

I read that as saying we would have papered over the cracks in the team if we won - ergot it was preferable to lose

And he states he got more confidence from a loss than a win

I agree that anything less than a Premiership and we need to look at things closely but I think you are over-analysing his comments.

If we don't play well and we lose everyone feels bad and wants to improve - and that includes criticism from the media.

If we don't play well but win everyone praises us and it is easy to forget that we still didn't play well.

[bornadog]

I thought it was a good interview and expected Rocket to saying nothing more nothing less. The coach has to keep positive and instill confidence in the players.

[AndrewP6]

I thought it was a good interview and expected Rocket to saying nothing more nothing less. The coach has to keep positive and instill confidence in the players.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Mofra]

I thought it was a good interview and expected Rocket to saying nothing more nothing less. The coach has to keep positive and instill confidence in the players.
Agree. A loser mentality never yields results, and confidence is an important commodity in football.

[GVGjr]

I thought it was a good interview and expected Rocket to saying nothing more nothing less. The coach has to keep positive and instill confidence in the players.

Don't you think he kind of dodged the opening questions about the expectations on the season? To me his third answer should have been his response to the first question.

Either way, interviews like that are always a problem for coaches coming off a highly competitive loss. Which ever way you answer someone will find fault.

Whilst I want the flag and think we can win it if it all clicks for us we need at least a top 4 finish this season if we are to keep this club at the top rung of the competition.
Members can jump off quickly if we limp into the finals and limp out without some positive results. We have come to far but not far enough to start another rebuild phase.

[Desipura]

Why has it deteriorated?
Im not in the inner sanctum, my guess it is due to his injury, OP?

[EasternWest]

Im not in the inner sanctum, my guess it is due to his injury, OP?

This. Rest him.

[Mantis]

Im not in the inner sanctum, my guess it is due to his injury, OP?

Being in the inner sanctum hasn't helped Eade work out why his kicking is off the boil so I can't see how that would help.

You say it's his injury, I say it's his over-confidence. If you watch him in the warm-up his kicking is fine, but under the heat of the battle his decision making is shot and his kicking efficinecy has paid the price.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Being in the inner sanctum hasn't helped Eade work out why his kicking is off the boil so I can't see how that would help.

You say it's his injury, I say it's his over-confidence. If you watch him in the warm-up his kicking is fine, but under the heat of the battle his decision making is shot and his kicking efficinecy has paid the price.

I say he simply does not have the match fitness. He has had no pre-season and is clearly a step slower (and he knows it). Every time he gets the ball he thinks he's going to get caught, that is why he butchered that goal last week, he thought the chaser was going to catch him so he tried to offload it as quick as he could.

[Ghost Dog]

Eade did not come accross that we will
finish 4th, hence why he made the comment we could do some damage from 5th
he does not know why Higgins kicking has deteriorated
the comment "a win might have cracked open some issues"
the Hahn comment about him having some credits in the bank.


Fair enough. Was there anything you did like about the article then?

[Doc26]

I say he simply does not have the match fitness. He has had no pre-season and is clearly a step slower (and he knows it). Every time he gets the ball he thinks he's going to get caught, that is why he butchered that goal last week, he thought the chaser was going to catch him so he tried to offload it as quick as he could.

Cross had two resconstructed ankles and no pre season but hasn't stopped him pushing through and up the further the season has progressed. Although Shaun's injury may have been more protracted, from the stands at least, it appears more attitudinal, and a serious question is lingering over his mental toughness.

The problem for the MC is all their smaller forward options i.e Johnson, Akermanis, Higgins, Hahn (although not really a small) remain on struggle street. Their replacement options with this type of player other than trying an untried risky option in Hooper is severely limited.

I remain a believer in Hill and Everitt's value in our best 22, for the X factor they offer, for their own and of course the Club's future development. We must find room for these two sooner rather than later.

We have what we have for 2010 and can now only work with what we have available. At season end the dark cloud looming is that of the effectiveness of our list management heading into this season. I'm also starting to wonder whether the amount of attention on Lake's protracted contract negotiations may have adversely effected our overall list management strategy going into 2010 with their eye not fully on the bigger picture.

[LostDoggy]

I believe the article achieved what the writer wanted. Discussion of Rocket's answers to questions that many of us would love to ask. Just because one or more answers are not everyone's cup of tea, doesn''t mean you start dining on the angry pills or such. Discuss, debate, but don't argue. :o One of you's should spring for a room if you are going to act like an old married couple! :rolleyes:

[azabob]

Cross had two resconstructed ankles and no pre season but hasn't stopped him pushing through and up the further the season has progressed. Although Shaun's injury may have been more protracted from the stands at least it appears more attitudinal, and a serious question lingers now over his mental toughness.

.

Cross has had more years in the system which has allowed him to build up his fitness base.

Cross is also a FREAK in regards to endurance running anyhow.

Not making excuses for Higgins just pointing out Cross probably isn't the best example you could've used.

Not sure Everitt is in our best 22 but I think Hill is.

Would like to hear you expanded thoughts on how the Lake saga affected our list management for 2010.

[Mantis]

Cross had two resconstructed ankles and no pre season but hasn't stopped him pushing through and up the further the season has progressed. Although Shaun's injury may have been more protracted, from the stands at least, it appears more attitudinal, and a serious question is lingering over his mental toughness.

Higgins has had a bit of a dream run when you think about it.

Lauded by the media as an extremely talented player with silky skills.

Lauded by our group as having great leadership skills and placed in the leadership group ahead of much better performed players in Cooney, Griffen & Lake.

Yep, he is playing injured, but he needs to 'hang tough' and show the skills & leadership qualities he is perceived to have.


The problem for the MC is all their smaller forward options i.e Johnson, Akermanis, Higgins, Hahn (although not really a small) remain on struggle street. Their replacement options with this type of player other than trying an untried risky option in Hooper is severely limited.

Which is why Stack has received more games than he has probably deserved. Hopefully we see the benefits of this over the coming years.


I remain a believer in Hill and Everitt's value in our best 22, for the X factor they offer, for their own and of course the Club's future development. We must find room for these two sooner rather than later.

Agree.

We can't afford to have 2 very talented players on the outer and perhaps looking for a change of clubs.

With a changing of the gurad coming we can't have 2 likely types headed out the door too.


We have what we have for 2010 and can now only work with what we have available. At season end the dark cloud looming is that of the effectiveness of our list management heading into this season. I'm also starting to wonder whether the amount of attention on Lake's protracted contract negotiations may have adversely effected our overall list management strategy going into 2010 with their eye not fully on the bigger picture.

Can't agree with that.

Lake's contract dealings weren't as drawn out as much as the media reported and the extra money he was given meant that Aker & Eagle had to be signed on reduced salaries, which really was no big deal at the time.

[Ghost Dog]

Really enjoyed reading it anyway. Good article

P.S GO TIGERS! Made things a little more possible for us.

[Remi Moses]

Not a bad piece it asked questions a lot of us are asking. Gotta say Rocket has tried hard to keep a positive feel about the season

[Doc26]

Cross has had more years in the system which has allowed him to build up his fitness base.

Cross is also a FREAK in regards to endurance running anyhow.

Not making excuses for Higgins just pointing out Cross probably isn't the best example you could've used.

Not sure Everitt is in our best 22 but I think Hill is.

Would like to hear you expanded thoughts on how the Lake saga affected our list management for 2010.

I agree the Cross example is more at the extreme end. I would just like to see Shaun lift his work rate taking an example from what is the standard each week from Cross and Boyd. His confidence will lift with a little more aggression shown to win the ball.

As for Andrejs, it's as much the fact that there is such uncertainty why we need to put serious game time into him to see where it goes. He is a confidence player which at the moment is lacking. Some faith shown in him by the MC would go a long way and leave us with more clarity where his future is. I'm a believer with him but he needs to believe it.

The Lake one I realise is a bit of a stretch but we all know how long this went on for and the frustrations it was causing at the time.

My point was more to do with the level of distraction both in time and in managing all options within the constraints of a salary cap whilst negotiations such as with Lake's go down to the wire. Part of our list management process must also encompass a risk strategy. For example what is the back up plan if we take on the risk of holding onto our ageing players in Eagleton, Akermanis, Johnson, Hahn even Hall and any or all of them fail to fire ? Short of keeping the faith to season end what are our alternatives ? Where are our legitimate small crumbing forward options like a Schneider / Milne / Burns / Stokes type, even Collingwood pulled out a new one in Blair on Friday night ?

[Desipura]

Being in the inner sanctum hasn't helped Eade work out why his kicking is off the boil so I can't see how that would help.

You say it's his injury, I say it's his over-confidence. If you watch him in the warm-up his kicking is fine, but under the heat of the battle his decision making is shot and his kicking efficinecy has paid the price.
I have never known a player due to over-confidence continue to butcher the ball when he has proven in the past he is a very good kick (almost elite).
Last week when he handballed to Grant in the dying minutes of the game, that was not a player who is over confident in his ability.
Last year he would have shrugged off his opponent with his strength and nailed it. (Dont forget he has a turn of speed when he can/wants to use it to burn off his opponenet in the first 10 metres)
If over confidence was the issue, you would have thought the club would have addressed it by now.

[Go_Dogs]

If over confidence was the issue, you would have thought the club would have addressed it by now.

I tend to agree, and I'm not sure I agree with Mantis' opinion that it's to do with his decision making.

For mine, Higgins is a player who is an elite decision maker, especially in situations requiring poise. I would go as far to say that he is not an elite kick, and perhaps not even great - more solid to good. His ball use by foot is generally so good because he knows where and when to kick the ball, whether it needs to be a quicker pass, or a weighted one to space. His poise and decision making generally allows his execution to look great.

His set shot kicking is generally fairly good from a technical point of view in my amateur opinion. His vision and use by hand also very good.


Therefore, I have to put it down to a lack of confidence/body issues. At the moment he is panicking in a fashion that is most unusual for him because he has no confidence in his bodies ability to execute the desired skills under any sort of genuine pressure.

[gohardorgohome]

You would have to be crazy to expect that Johnson, Higgins, Ward and Picken would come in and star against the hawks who now seem to have their mojo back. It will be twoor three more games till they are back to 100%

Hahn was a non contributor, maybe he was playing injured but now he is out and in rehab. Let's hope he gets fit for the finals.


Our kicking has been terrible this has been our biggest issue when we have lost.

We have a good percentage. It's up there with second tier teams like StKilda and Collingwood. This means we are mostly playing well but have not turned the close games into wins.

I thought Everitt played well early in the year before he was injured. I think he brings more to our team than Stack.

I feel that Everitt is not an match committee favourite. It may be an attiude thing.

We won't know if the dogs have improved enough untill after the preliminary finals.

Winning on the last two weekends in September is all that really matters.

[GVGjr]

I have never known a player due to over-confidence continue to butcher the ball when he has proven in the past he is a very good kick (almost elite).

If over confidence was the issue, you would have thought the club would have addressed it by now.



Therefore, I have to put it down to a lack of confidence/body issues. At the moment he is panicking in a fashion that is most unusual for him because he has no confidence in his bodies ability to execute the desired skills under any sort of genuine pressure.


The guys are kicking the ball a lot less at training now and I wonder if the skill departs a player for a period of time if they can't do the extra work it might require to get it back on track.

[Ghost Dog]

Looking at last week, pressure in that game was finals like intensity. one of many factors. Can't always blame players. Opposition are a factor too.

just kicking ( Higgins ) one thing, but general poor and hand and foot decision could be mix of injury, lack of confidence or some other personal issue. Maybe his goldfish died. Never thought of that did ya.

[Mantis]

I have never known a player due to over-confidence continue to butcher the ball when he has proven in the past he is a very good kick (almost elite).
Last week when he handballed to Grant in the dying minutes of the game, that was not a player who is over confident in his ability.
Last year he would have shrugged off his opponent with his strength and nailed it. (Dont forget he has a turn of speed when he can/wants to use it to burn off his opponenet in the first 10 metres)
If over confidence was the issue, you would have thought the club would have addressed it by now.

The piece of play you mention did look like he had run out of idea's.

I was more talking about his turnovers in previous games ( Collingwood & Essendon) where his almost arrogance in his decision making proved costly in regard to his kicking and the turnovers he created.

He knows he is a good kick, but rather than take the safe option he has built up a tendency to try for the 'showtime' option which if it comes off it will change the course of that particular play, but invariably he stuffs it up and a turnover results.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

"After that interview, and I recall hearing Smorgo say anything less than a GF would be a failure, I am thinking that the board needs to look at a new coach as early as next year." Kelvinator.
There are supporters and there are knockers/whingers.It's so easy and powerful to be negative. It's much harder and more noble to have heart/character and faith. So as we approach the finals Kelvinator is calling for the head of Eade, our coach. He wasn't to know, especially as he is challenged in the heart,intuition and faith department, but we have just beaten the Blues by 76 points and are no doubt favourites to make the top four. I had to contain my anger when this thread called for the head of Eade. Now the anger has grown to contempt.
To call for the head of Eade is the act of a traitor and disqualifies the member from being a supporter and from being part of the 2010 premiership.

[Jasper]

"After that interview, and I recall hearing Smorgo say anything less than a GF would be a failure, I am thinking that the board needs to look at a new coach as early as next year." Kelvinator.
There are supporters and there are knockers/whingers.It's so easy and powerful to be negative. It's much harder and more noble to have heart/character and faith. So as we approach the finals Kelvinator is calling for the head of Eade, our coach. He wasn't to know, especially as he is challenged in the heart,intuition and faith department, but we have just beaten the Blues by 76 points and are no doubt favourites to make the top four. I had to contain my anger when this thread called for the head of Eade. Now the anger has grown to contempt.
To call for the head of Eade is the act of a traitor and disqualifies the member from being a supporter and from being part of the 2010 premiership.

Hilarious post and reinforces my earlier comparison with religion and football. Burning at the stake anyone? And by the way I don't think beating Carlton in Round 15 invalidates anything I have said. But hey, who needs logic when you have faith. Good on ya champ, you call me a traitor to a club I have supported for over 30 years, I say get stuffed you intellectual pygmy.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Hilarious post and reinforces my earlier comparison with religion and football. Burning at the stake anyone? And by the way I don't think beating Carlton in Round 15 invalidates anything I have said. But hey, who needs logic when you have faith. Good on ya champ, you call me a traitor to a club I have supported for over 30 years, I say get stuffed you intellectual pygmy.

I feel pity for you thinking that faith is hilarious. No doubt you don't appreciate when a team plays with heart and belief because all that matters is logic. I hope that you learn to be able to see the shortcomings 0f logic, of which by the way you only have a modest amount. Logic is something the corporate world lives on. "Is there any money in it?". Supporting a team is more a matter of the heart and a matter of loyalty, which you despise. Ergo you invalidate yourself from moral supportership. Go find a team that should logically succeed and if they don't then call for a head on a plate.

[Jasper]

I feel pity for you thinking that faith is hilarious. No doubt you don't appreciate when a team plays with heart and belief because all that matters is logic. I hope that you learn to be able to see the shortcomings 0f logic, of which by the way you only have a modest amount. Logic is something the corporate world lives on. "Is there any money in it?". Supporting a team is more a matter of the heart and a matter of loyalty, which you despise. Ergo you invalidate yourself from moral supportership. Go find a team that should logically succeed and if they don't then call for a head on a plate.


At least you thought this one out a bit better. Still insulting...but if read the posts they aren't critical of the club they are critical of Eade (and only this year) and some of his quotes. Now if you think supporting a club is all about blindly following everything they do without question, then you are different type of supporter to me. I think your position is stupid, you think mine to be morally suspect. I doubt we will ever agree, probably best we never respond to each other's posts again.

[Ghost Dog]

Hilarious post and reinforces my earlier comparison with religion and football. Burning at the stake anyone? And by the way I don't think beating Carlton in Round 15 invalidates anything I have said. But hey, who needs logic when you have faith. Good on ya champ, you call me a traitor to a club I have supported for over 30 years, I say get stuffed you intellectual pygmy.

I don't think these kinds of posts helps anyone woofers.
Debate, Discuss, Ideas but don't play the man.

There were some points in the OP that read a bit too much into comments made by Rocket.
It being supposedly "Better to lose" to Hawthorn than win was wrong view; no coach would want to lose rather than win.
What he was trying to say, is that like a car on a long trip, better for it to have issues early in the journey than late so they can be sorted. Of course no issues would be ideal, but if you have to have them, better early than later. IMO.
I still think there were more positive things to take away than negatives from last week's loss. Also have that view of the article, while a bit sus on some comments.
Seems the performance tonight indicates that view is correct.
Well done Rocket.

Positive vibes tribe!
It's all about the Vibe, your honor.
http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Reviews/ReviewScreenshots/CastleR4c.jpg

[GVGjr]

I feel pity for you thinking that faith is hilarious. No doubt you don't appreciate when a team plays with heart and belief because all that matters is logic. I hope that you learn to be able to see the shortcomings 0f logic, of which by the way you only have a modest amount. Logic is something the corporate world lives on. "Is there any money in it?". Supporting a team is more a matter of the heart and a matter of loyalty, which you despise. Ergo you invalidate yourself from moral supportership. Go find a team that should logically succeed and if they don't then call for a head on a plate.

Gee I reckon that is an incredibly hard go at someone for just questioning how the side was performing. I'm surprised that you have taken offense to the opening post.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

At least you thought this one out a bit better. Still insulting...but if read the posts they aren't critical of the club they are critical of Eade (and only this year) and some of his quotes. Now if you think supporting a club is all about blindly following everything they do without question, then you are different type of supporter to me. I think your position is stupid, you think mine to be morally suspect. I doubt we will ever agree, probably best we never respond to each other's posts again.

Hopefully we both get to enjoy some further success for our team this year. I of course did not advocate blind anything. The coach is an essential part of the club and to call for his demise should not be done lightly, and certainly not before looking at your own motives. When I read your post I had a srong feeling of traitorship - a wanting to undermine the status quo. It was rationalised, but any bad habit or misguided impulse is easy to rationalise. You can rationalise anything. But one's motives must be analysed and clear. You are disappointed like all of us at the hopes we took into the season seemed to be ruined. You lost faith (O ye of little faith). You are the pygmy after all.
I accept you may have felt insulted, that is because I felt you betrayed Eade and our club with a lack of faith. My response was as strong as the threat I believe you represented. The club would read this forum. To garner support for getting rid of the coach, going into finals when the club needs all our support is a crime according to my values. I accept that my values are not shared by most people but I feel them strongly. I accept that you are a supporter according to your and probably most peoples values.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Gee I reckon that is an incredibly hard go at someone for just questioning how the side was performing. I'm surprised that you have taken offense to the opening post.

Thanks GvGjr I accept your call. I took the post as more than questioning how the team was travelling, it called for Eade's head. I do go hard when my values are threatened which I need to take a look at.

[GVGjr]

Thanks GvGjr I accept your call. I took the post as more than questioning how the team was travelling, it called for Eade's head. I do go hard when my values are threatened which I need to take a look at.

Thanks for the response.

The AFL competition is one that lends itself to supporters questioning the merit of the performance of the players (on a weekly basis), the coach (less frequently than the players) and even the board (probably annually) when things don't aren't going as well as we believe.

Prior to this week, we weren't performing as well as we should have.

This site provides our supporters the chance to raise questions on performance to any of the above. Providing it's supported with a bit of logic and without just raw emotion then it generally promotes some good discussions.

I have no problem with the points that Kelvinator raised nor the manner in which it was raised.

[EasternWest]

"After that interview, and I recall hearing Smorgo say anything less than a GF would be a failure, I am thinking that the board needs to look at a new coach as early as next year." Kelvinator.
There are supporters and there are knockers/whingers.It's so easy and powerful to be negative. It's much harder and more noble to have heart/character and faith. So as we approach the finals Kelvinator is calling for the head of Eade, our coach. He wasn't to know, especially as he is challenged in the heart,intuition and faith department, but we have just and beaten the Blues by 76 points are no doubt favourites to make the top four. I had to contain my anger when this thread called for the head of Eade. Now the anger has grown to contempt.
To call for the head of Eade is the act of a traitor and disqualifies the member from being a supporter and from being part of the 2010 premiership.

1. Or crazy. It's ok to question why. We all had such hopes for a really big year. There was no reason for us to think with last years performance and the inclusion of Hall we wouldn't be a real force. But we aren't, and people want to know why.

2. It was 68 points. Your argument is invalid.

3. There's plenty of doubt still.

4. Do we just cut away all dissenters?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

1. Or crazy. It's ok to question why. We all had such hopes for a really big year. There was no reason for us to think with last years performance and the inclusion of Hall we wouldn't be a real force. But we aren't, and people want to know why.

2. It was 68 points. Your argument is invalid.

3. There's plenty of doubt still.

4. Do we just cut away all dissenters?

Not dissenters. But supporters who all too readily want to blame and axe important personnel because their personal hopes are not fulfilled. Its the ugly side of football. "Supporters" who boo their own players, it happens regularly and is an ugly manifestation of putting personal needs before loyalty.

[GVGjr]

Not dissenters. But supporters who all too readily want to blame and axe important personnel because their personal hopes are not fulfilled. Its the ugly side of football. "Supporters" who boo their own players, it happens regularly and is an ugly manifestation of putting personal needs before loyalty.

Have to agree. Booing your own players is more often than not a juvenile display.

[Stefcep]

The disappointment of being starved of success is what drives the anger at coaches and players. AFL operates a priority pick draft which over time evens out the competition. At the end of the day the lack of success has to come down
1. to the decisions made by the administrators/coaches to draft certain players and then to play certain players and not others
2. the individual player efforts.

Some supporters are at breaking point and feel that someone HAS to be responsible.

IMO its not the coach. Players are making bad decisions at critical times and executing bad passes/kicks. Things that a coach has no control over. The same things that drag supporters to the level of booing their own players. Right or wrong, it happens.

Didn't see today's match but 11 goals wins are always good.

[EasternWest]

Not dissenters. But supporters who all too readily want to blame and axe important personnel because their personal hopes are not fulfilled. Its the ugly side of football. "Supporters" who boo their own players, it happens regularly and is an ugly manifestation of putting personal needs before loyalty.

Well, I didn't get that in Kelvinator's posts, but I couldn't agree more with you. It is ugly.

[The Pie Man]

re: booing your team (which wasn't really part of the thread until this last page)

I went to see Ess v Haw early last year, and the Hawks passionate and paid up chose to boo em off the park after they lost....I couldn't believe it. I out loud wondered 'here's a group of players that delivered you a flag 8 AFL games ago... ahead of schedule... and you're booing them? You weak ..................' and so on.

I haven't heard our fans boo players too much - harp on about the Sam Power's & Cam Wight's of the world, but not boo the team.

Anyone trying to draw parallels between sport and business should stop - you don't have to be market leader to grow your business, build shareholder profits and be considered successful...every team in any competition is trying to do one thing, and that's the single measure of success. Chalk & Cheese - footy's tough, and while we hoped/expected the club to make a GF this year (which is still a plausible outcome) there are so many variables over the course of a season that will throw up challenges, some too great.

I think Eade's the best coach we've ever had.....have to admit, the loss to the Hawks comment he made was a little strange....we looked as switched on as we have all season tonight, so that's (our form that is) all I really care about

[Curly5]

re: booing your team (which wasn't really part of the thread until this last page)

I went to see Ess v Haw early last year, and the Hawks passionate and paid up chose to boo em off the park after they lost....I couldn't believe it. I out loud wondered 'here's a group of players that delivered you a flag 8 AFL games ago... ahead of schedule... and you're booing them? You weak ..................' and so on.

I haven't heard our fans boo players too much - harp on about the Sam Power's & Cam Wight's of the world, but not boo the team.

Anyone trying to draw parallels between sport and business should stop - you don't have to be market leader to grow your business, build shareholder profits and be considered successful...every team in any competition is trying to do one thing, and that's the single measure of success. Chalk & Cheese - footy's tough, and while we hoped/expected the club to make a GF this year (which is still a plausible outcome) there are so many variables over the course of a season that will throw up challenges, some too great.

I think Eade's the best coach we've ever had.....have to admit, the loss to the Hawks comment he made was a little strange....we looked as switched on as we have all season tonight, so that's (our form that is) all I really care about

I think the last time that happened was when we got beaten by Fremantle some years ago, a very ugly time, possibly during the Rohde years.... ?

Point 2, while a win is always nice, there are other indicators that we may not be aware of, but the coaches are all over. I trust them to know what's best for us. Don't forget there are still 7 rounds to go and we are working up to the finals. Our campaign is unfolding at the right end of the season.

[The Pie Man]

I think the last time that happened was when we got beaten by Fremantle some years ago, a very ugly time, possibly during the Rohde years.... ?
Point 2, while a win is always nice, there are other indicators that we may not be aware of, but the coaches are all over. I trust them to know what's best for us. Don't forget there are still 7 rounds to go and we are working up to the finals. Our campaign is unfolding at the right end of the season.

I remember that - I commited what many feel a cardinal footy fan sin and left early that day, but I do that sometimes (I've paid to get in, I'm in the minority that doesn't feel the need to hang around while we're getting flogged)

Thought the booing was over the top. Doesn't achieve anything