Why I hate Chris Judd. [Archive] - Whitten Oval Online Forum

Dancin' Douggy

12-07-2010, 08:10 PM

Well of course I don't hate HIM personally and I'm sure if any one out there knows him he's a great guy and blah blah blah.

BUT........... what he represents....%#@(*!!!

He's left one club to chase money. Lots of players do it and he was homesick and etc etc.
But anyone see Jonathon Brown leaving the Lions for a big comfortable deal somewhere else? Or Pavlich? ( Actually hope they both come to the Dogs secretly)

And where does he end up? CAAAARRRRLLTON the home of the big fat rich smug cheats.

The money he gets from Visy is an absolute finger to the salary cap.
But Demetrio's "Emporors New Clothes" parade marches on with everyone in the media too scared or eventually too tired of being ignored to pursue the issue.

Higgins does his ankle and everyone with eyes and a brain can see that huge clod of dirt give way but according to the media, and the AFL ( KB on SEN should be ashamed of his grovelling to the AFL) and their 'experts' there's nothing wrong with the surface at docklands. NOTHING.

Judd, however rolls his ankle and is invited to have a private viewing of the stadium and............. abracadabra........... the entire centre strip of the stadium is replaced.
(not the part where Higgins did HIS ankle mind you.

I've had a gutful of Rebecca Twigley turning up in every page of every paper and the invented free kicks he gets are really beyond a joke.

Gives Pavlich five stitches with a blow considered too soft to warrant even a report, let alone a suspension.

The crimes just keep adding up.

It would please me greatly to watch his career just slowly fizz out in mediocrity at Carlton.

I know he is a great player but Give me Mr. 20c Chris Grant any day.

EasternWest

12-07-2010, 08:19 PM

Well of course I don't hate HIM personally and I'm sure if any one out there knows him he's a great guy and blah blah blah.

Pretty much agree with your entire post.

But as to the above, I've heard from a few people that he's an ar$ehole. Varying quality sources, so make of it what you will, but it just doesn't surprise me.

To me he's like the creepy guy in stories, all shiny on the outside but at home he eats puppies. Ok, maybe that's too far.

Dancin' Douggy

12-07-2010, 08:22 PM

Pretty much agree with your entire post.

But as to the above, I've heard from a few people that he's an ar$ehole. Varying quality sources, so make of it what you will, but it just doesn't surprise me.

To me he's like the creepy guy in stories, all shiny on the outside but at home he eats puppies. Ok, maybe that's too far.

Puppies and Kittens and baby dolphins and bilbys I hear.

AndrewP6

12-07-2010, 08:27 PM

Good call DD...they made mention of the turf inspection on Foxtel's coverage...

Although, I kind of like his better half...

LostDoggy

12-07-2010, 08:39 PM

Good call DD...they made mention of the turf inspection on Foxtel's coverage...

Although, I kind of like his better half...

Goalumpire Chelsea's inspection was brilliant :D

AndrewP6

12-07-2010, 08:42 PM

Goalumpire Chelsea's inspection was brilliant :D

I know, it was great... still a bit weirded out by BT's excitement levels though!

Ghost Dog

12-07-2010, 09:25 PM

I know, it was great... still a bit weirded out by BT's excitement levels though!

Re BT. Made me laugh. Glad some of the commentators have not been PC'd out of existence.

I enjoy watching Judd play actually. But that eye gouge thing was weird. Brain fade maximus. And those powerade ads - argh.

SonofScray

12-07-2010, 10:15 PM

mjp

12-07-2010, 11:14 PM

How many more times can he claw, and scratch and gouge and still get the plaudits of being a gun player over being a dog? Libba was crucified for giving as good as he got and this guy has an indestructible halo on him.

Forget that stuff. He has been missing easy goals since entering the league, and yesterday evening again showcased that trait...he is never called on it.

Good midfielders kick goals is the mantra we always had to hear about Scott West. Well, how many does Judd actually kick?

bornadog

13-07-2010, 12:16 AM

I can't stand him and I hate the way he is a media darling and can do no wrong.

LostDoggy

13-07-2010, 07:55 AM

It would please me greatly to watch his career just slowly fizz out in mediocrity at Carlton.

I know he is a great player but Give me Mr. 20c Chris Grant any day.

Douggy - thanks for having the courage to say what we probably mostly alll secretly feel! Myself, I was kinda hoping he did a knee and basically never recovered back to the player he was........ poetic justice I reckon. :D

Mantis

13-07-2010, 08:21 AM

Good midfielders kick goals is the mantra we always had to hear about Scott West. Well, how many does Judd actually kick?

Over his career he has kicked 174 goals from 190 games (0.9 per game)

Comparison:

Gary Ablett - 182 games - 241 goals - 1.3 per game

Dane Swan - 140 games - 88 goals - 0.6 per game

Adam Cooney - 150 games - 134 goals - 0.9 per game

Judd's numbers stack up very well especially considering that he has always played as midfielder unlike Ablett who started as a small forward.

-----

I feel dirty posting in this thread.... WOOF is better than a thread like this, this sort of stuff deserves to be on other forums.... Lift your game!!

Curly5

13-07-2010, 08:46 AM

I can't stand him and I hate the way he is a media darling and can do no wrong.

Not forgetting 5 stitches in Pavlich's face - no other player in the AFL would have got away with that one.

EasternWest

13-07-2010, 08:49 AM

Over his career he has kicked 174 goals from 190 games (0.9 per game)

Comparison:

Gary Ablett - 182 games - 241 goals - 1.3 per game

Dane Swan - 140 games - 88 goals - 0.6 per game

Adam Cooney - 150 games - 134 goals - 0.9 per game

Judd's numbers stack up very well especially considering that he has always played as midfielder unlike Ablett who started as a small forward.

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I feel dirty posting in this thread.... WOOF is better than a thread like this, this suit of stuff deserves to be on other forums.... Lift your game!!

Disagree. If we can't anonymously character assassinate here, where else can we go? Surely not BF, that bastion of rationality?

Desipura

13-07-2010, 08:52 AM

Over his career he has kicked 174 goals from 190 games (0.9 per game)

Comparison:

Gary Ablett - 182 games - 241 goals - 1.3 per game

Dane Swan - 140 games - 88 goals - 0.6 per game

Adam Cooney - 150 games - 134 goals - 0.9 per game

Judd's numbers stack up very well especially considering that he has always played as midfielder unlike Ablett who started as a small forward.

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I feel dirty posting in this thread.... WOOF is better than a thread like this, this suit of stuff deserves to be on other forums.... Lift your game!!
If did not take long for you to prove someone wrong;) Hey, maybe thats why we dont see eye to eye occasionally:p

Mantis

13-07-2010, 08:58 AM

If did not take long for you to prove someone wrong;) Hey, maybe thats why we dont see eye to eye occasionally:p

I was merely adding some information to show if this assumption by 'mjp' was correct.

Aren't I allowed to do that?

Desipura

13-07-2010, 09:01 AM

I was merely adding some information to show if this assumption by 'mjp' was correct.

Aren't I allowed to do that?
The information you gave provided the answer. You certainly are allowed to do that.

Mantis

13-07-2010, 09:06 AM

Disagree. If we can't anonymously character assassinate here, where else can we go? Surely not BF, that bastion of rationality?

For one the Unleashed board is for posts about Bulldogs topics so it's in the wrong spot.

And secondly if we can 'character assassinate' a player who doesn't even play for us because he switched clubs how will this forum and the people who post on it react when one of our very own turns his back on us which could well happen at the end of the year?

chef

13-07-2010, 09:33 AM

I feel dirty posting in this thread.... WOOF is better than a thread like this, this suit of stuff deserves to be on other forums.... Lift your game!!

This^^^^

Dancin' Douggy

13-07-2010, 09:53 AM

For one the Unleashed board is for posts about Bulldogs topics so it's in the wrong spot.

And secondly if we can 'character assassinate' a player who doesn't even play for us because he switched clubs how will this forum and the people who post on it react when one of our very own turns his back on us which could well happen at the end of the year?

I guess the link for me and what started me going was the Higgins injury and how it was completely swept under the carpet. But when Judd did his ankle..........well it's in my post.
So Maybe I should have made that more clear.

And as far as players leaving clubs I think we all handled Nathan Brown leaving with quiet grace and dignity......I haven't read one bad word about him on woof:rolleyes:

It's about what Judd represents.
Getting off the Pavlich elbow because of 'low impact when they guy has five stitches is an absolute blatant lie.
Judd gets more than special treatment. He gets AFL sanctioned corruption.

LostDoggy

13-07-2010, 10:16 AM

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with this thread. It's just people expressing opinions. Haven't there been a similars thread on Nick Reiwoldt? Bruce McAvaney? :confused:

mjp

13-07-2010, 10:20 AM

I was merely adding some information to show if this assumption by 'mjp' was correct.

Aren't I allowed to do that?

Of course you are. And now I have a stat for you to back up my comment that he misses easy goals.

2009 - 12 goals, 19 points is a good example of what I am talking about....'missing easy goals' was the quote in my original post. In another season he kicked 15.24...a couple of years kicking straight early in his career but not for a while now.

As for suggesting he has always played as a midfielder, that is a complete pile of rubbish. He started off playing as a wingman, his famous game vs Brisbane at the Gabba (5 goals) came as a half-forward...give me a break. Living in Perth I had (have) the West Coast games rammed down my throat so I am pretty comfortable talking about this.

Beyond that, let's use the numbers to represent whatever we like Mantis - you have done it and now I have done it - but also report what you saw with your own eyes on Sunday night. Judd missing EASY goals in a critical game for his side at CRITICAL moments early in the game. He ended up with a couple - great. He kicked straight at the end of the game when it was lost...

Mofra

13-07-2010, 10:44 AM

Good midfielders kick goals is the mantra we always had to hear about Scott West. Well, how many does Judd actually kick?
He was better than a goal per game at West Coast - 1.2 or 1.3.

He's dropped to roughly 0.6 per game at the Blues. I know there are midfielders I would choose ahead of him right now.

On a side note (the Visy deal), the NRL "any" test would certainly have blocked this deal IMO. There are rumours about his mum being on a six figure salary at Visy for "general admin" as well.

Mantis

13-07-2010, 10:50 AM

Of course you are. And now I have a stat for you to back up my comment that he misses easy goals.

2009 - 12 goals, 19 points is a good example of what I am talking about....'missing easy goals' was the quote in my original post. In another season he kicked 15.24...a couple of years kicking straight early in his career but not for a while now.

As for suggesting he has always played as a midfielder, that is a complete pile of rubbish. He started off playing as a wingman, his famous game vs Brisbane at the Gabba (5 goals) came as a half-forward...give me a break. Living in Perth I had (have) the West Coast games rammed down my throat so I am pretty comfortable talking about this.

Beyond that, let's use the numbers to represent whatever we like Mantis - you have done it and now I have done it - but also report what you saw with your own eyes on Sunday night. Judd missing EASY goals in a critical game for his side at CRITICAL moments early in the game. He ended up with a couple - great. He kicked straight at the end of the game when it was lost...

I am in agreeance that his kicking for goal is generally poor, he misses many more than he should and sometimes these are at important times, but for a player who by and large players as midfielder to average close to one goal per game over his career is pretty good.

And yes he has spent time on the wing (I see wingmen as mids anyway) and even as a HF so you are quite correct there, but the only reason I included that part was in reference to Ablett who started his career as a small forward and played that role for a number of years, but looking at Ablett's stats he still kicks plenty of goals in his current role where he mainly plays as a mid.

Anyway I have no beef with what you posted originally, in fact I am in agreeance. All I was trying to show was that he hits the scoreboard quite regularly which is quite unlike what other midfielders do. This group would include the likes of West, Swan, Cross, Jobe Watson, etc..

Ghost Dog

13-07-2010, 11:17 AM

There are rumours about his mum being on a six figure salary at Visy for "general admin" as well.

Making a few copies and sipping coffee with tim tams at VISY for six figures! Nice one Judd Mum.

Dancin' Douggy

13-07-2010, 04:26 PM

Making a few copies and sipping coffee with tim tams at VISY for six figures! Nice one Judd Mum.

I bet she even gets 'Monte Carlos' as well.

Ghost Dog

13-07-2010, 04:37 PM

HAHAHA. THat's the last straw!!!

Ah well. Pays off for having to wash his smelly kit and drive him to Auskick all those years I guess.
I hear she has a mean eye gouge, Mrs Judd.

Remi Moses

13-07-2010, 04:37 PM

Not just because of my dislike for Carlton but Judd does get on my goat. The whole Visy charade now the private meeting with Tip Rat crook Collins onthe surface! Now I'm positive the other tennants have issued concerns which fall on deaf ears ! We all know the connection which just gives Sunday's bludgeoning more enjoyable ;)

azabob

13-07-2010, 05:49 PM

He was better than a goal per game at West Coast - 1.2 or 1.3.

He's dropped to roughly 0.6 per game at the Blues. I know there are midfielders I would choose ahead of him right now.

On a side note (the Visy deal), the NRL "any" test would certainly have blocked this deal IMO. There are rumours about his mum being on a six figure salary at Visy for "general admin" as well.

RE his mum you do realise she is very successful in her own right in the medical field?

azabob

13-07-2010, 05:52 PM

I guess the link for me and what started me going was the Higgins injury and how it was completely swept under the carpet. But when Judd did his ankle..........well it's in my post.
So Maybe I should have made that more clear.

And as far as players leaving clubs I think we all handled Nathan Brown leaving with quiet grace and dignity......I haven't read one bad word about him on woof:rolleyes:

It's about what Judd represents.
Getting off the Pavlich elbow because of 'low impact when they guy has five stitches is an absolute blatant lie.
Judd gets more than special treatment. He gets AFL sanctioned corruption.

The way I remember the Higgins injury was the media were all over it and agreeing it was an issue, but we as a club burried the story by saying nothing is wrong with the surface.

EasternWest

13-07-2010, 06:21 PM

mighty_west

13-07-2010, 06:52 PM

-----

I feel dirty posting in this thread.... WOOF is better than a thread like this, this sort of stuff deserves to be on other forums.... Lift your game!!

Is there actually much difference in this thread, and perhaps the one i started up re: the beer v pills thread, and your good self actually starting the ball rolling in "the charactor assassination" of Ross Lyon?

I actually agree with you, and think he is a turd of a man, but i thought it was interesting that you went in that direction with your post, which has been the main theme of most posts since [which i have no problem with], than actually tackling the subject at hand, which was in fact, Beer vs sleeping pills.

BTW, the moment Judd went to Carlton, i couldn't stand him, i dunno, must be the club...:p

craigsahibee

13-07-2010, 06:59 PM

There are rumours about his mum being on a six figure salary at Visy for "general admin" as well.

And here's me thinking she doesn't have to work because she is still living off the royalties from that memorable ditty she penned about her son. Silly me.

EasternWest

13-07-2010, 07:32 PM

And here's me thinking she doesn't have to work because she is still living off the royalties from that memorable ditty she penned about her son. Silly me.

They're playing football.....:eek:

Topdog

13-07-2010, 08:14 PM

I guess the link for me and what started me going was the Higgins injury and how it was completely swept under the carpet. But when Judd did his ankle..........well it's in my post.
So Maybe I should have made that more clear.

To be fair the Western Bulldogs and Higgins didn't complain. Carlton lodged an official complaint so it had to be looked at.

Mantis

13-07-2010, 08:36 PM

Is there actually much difference in this thread, and perhaps the one i started up re: the beer v pills thread, and your good self actually starting the ball rolling in "the charactor assassination" of Ross Lyon?

I actually agree with you, and think he is a turd of a man, but i thought it was interesting that you went in that direction with your post, which has been the main theme of most posts since [which i have no problem with], than actually tackling the subject at hand, which was in fact, Beer vs sleeping pills.

BTW, the moment Judd went to Carlton, i couldn't stand him, i dunno, must be the club...:p

Yeah I've got double standards, shoot me.

Judd can't control how much money a club wants to pay him, he can't control if the AFL's MRP find him guilty of an offence or what happens when his club complains about the surface he plays on.

Look I hate CAAARRRLTON, I hate all that they stand for, but I think Judd is a very good player and believe this character assassination wasn't warranted.... Furthermore I think this site is better than this type of thread. Even in the Beer vs Pills thread I did address the topic at hand... after a Lyon kicking and you can't say it wasn't warranted.

BTW I saw Twiggers at the game on Sunday, she looks like a China doll.

EasternWest

13-07-2010, 09:30 PM

Yeah I've got double standards, shoot me.

Judd can't control how much money a club wants to pay him, he can't control if the AFL's MRP find him guilty of an offence or what happens when his club complains about the surface he plays on.

Look I hate CAAARRRLTON, I hate all that they stand for, but I think Judd is a very good player and believe this character assassination wasn't warranted.... Furthermore I think this site is better than this type of thread. Even in the Beer vs Pills thread I did address the topic at hand... after a Lyon kicking and you can't say it wasn't warranted.

BTW I saw Twiggers at the game on Sunday, she looks like a China doll.

But calling someone you don't like an "arse clown" is ok? Oh wait, you've mentioned you've got double standards, so I guess it is.

The thread is fine. It's not like anyone has said he eats puppies or anything.

Mantis

13-07-2010, 09:38 PM

But calling someone you don't like an "arse clown" is ok? Oh wait, you've mentioned you've got double standards, so I guess it is.

The thread is fine. It's not like anyone has said he eats puppies or anything.

The swear filter denied me the opportunity to say what I had intended to post.

Lyon hinted with what was said to Darcy that our club isn't all that professional which is utter crap.

Ghost Dog

13-07-2010, 09:47 PM

Wikipedia

Towards the end of 2003, Judd began writing a column on the West Coast Eagles official website called "Juddy's Jibe". Some of his opinions presented in these columns prompted extensive media commentary, such as his view that footballers should not be role models.

Which leads to an interesting point > perhaps another thread. Should footballers be role models?
This also relates to Ross Lyon. 10 years ago if you cast aspersions that another club enjoyed a drink, people would have said; " so what?"

How times have changed. We live in a very PC sporting world.

Case in point. If AKER had said what BT did about that female goal umpire, it would be all over the news.
One of the reasons maybe people dislike Judd as they feel different standards are applied to him. Docker Pav might agree.

Well Puppies ate Judd last week. Bulldog puppies! chomp :P
Suffer in your Jocks!

mighty_west

13-07-2010, 09:53 PM

Wikipedia

Towards the end of 2003, Judd began writing a column on the West Coast Eagles official website called "Juddy's Jibe". Some of his opinions presented in these columns prompted extensive media commentary, such as his view that footballers should not be role models.

Which leads to an interesting point > perhaps another thread. Should footballers be role models?

I'm sure not everyone will share the same views, but to me, if a player wants to play at the highest level, get paid the bucks they demand etc etc, have kids plaster their walls with their posters, their numbers on their backs etc, they are role models.

If Judd doesn't want to be one, go play in a local club with his mates.

Desipura

14-07-2010, 09:03 AM

RE his mum you do realise she is very successful in her own right in the medical field?
Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story ;)

LostDoggy

14-07-2010, 09:11 AM

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with this thread. It's just people expressing opinions. Haven't there been a similars thread on Nick Reiwoldt? Bruce McAvaney? :confused:

That's true Suz - besides, just because I can't stand a player of another club doesn't mean that he isn't a great player - I believe Judd is a skillful player - probably makes it harder to like how he has obviously followed the $ and is possibly supplementing his footy income with some kind of shonky deal with Visy!

Doc26

15-07-2010, 11:33 PM

But I don't hate Chris Judd, to the contrary, I can only admire his football ability and his achievements both on and off field. There appears a whole lot of 'tall poppy' chopping going on here. He's listened to because he has built up and has earned the respect and credibility across the industry. As for his football, behinds aside, there are few current players that match his influence when it matters.

Who I do 'hate' (well not technically) is the idiotic Blues barracker that sat behind us on level 3 last Sunday. He tested our resolve like never before spending four quarters incessantly bagging our players, our supporters (or lack therof) and our supposed 'tragic' history. What to do short of getting thrown out yourself ?? :mad:

And as for Carlton, well that's another story ...........

mjp

15-07-2010, 11:57 PM

But I don't hate Chris Judd, to the contrary, I can only admire his football ability and his achievements both on and off field.

What about his role as an ambassador for VISY has impressed you so?:D

Doc26

16-07-2010, 12:24 AM

What about his role as an ambassador for VISY has impressed you so?:D

As much as the VISY deal is supposedly meant to be independent from Carlton I don't see it that way. How can one. Judd had a price and Carlton / Pratt found a way to make it work. Why would'nt they with a money pit and AFL endorsement ? :confused:

If a Stephen Hill eg wished to move to Melbourne to join the Bulldogs and was marketable enough to become an ambassador for Tacos and Enchildadas then I would be more than glad for the club to work to make such a deal happen within the suspect 3rd party arrangement rules.

I'm impressed more that Chris Judd has maintained such a solid brand in the industry, remains a wonderful player and is generally widely respected other than by the odd Woofers and no doubt few Coasters.

mjp

16-07-2010, 12:34 AM

I'm impressed more that Chris Judd has maintained such a solid brand in the industry, remains a wonderful player and is generally widely respected other than by the odd Woofers and no doubt few Coasters.

Fair enough - my comments were pretty tongue in cheek but I still maintain that their are NO off-field achievements to be celebrated or admired. Maintaining a brand is not really an achievement...though I guess he has managed to distance himself from both Cousins and Fevola so I guess that is something.

Good player I guess. I still say way over-rated. Off-field? Nothing really of note.

Ghost Dog

16-07-2010, 07:12 AM

Fair enough - my comments were pretty tongue in cheek but I still maintain that their are NO off-field achievements to be celebrated or admired. Maintaining a brand is not really an achievement...though I guess he has managed to distance himself from both Cousins and Fevola so I guess that is something.

Good player I guess. I still say way over-rated. Off-field? Nothing really of note.

You would love to have Juddy in our team. Wouldn't you? However, the Powerade commercials suck! I have enjoyed one or two of his articles as well.

ledge

16-07-2010, 09:47 AM

Visy board embassador? Yep I have seen him all over the place doing that job! NOT!

Doc26

16-07-2010, 09:59 AM

Maintaining a brand is not really an achievement...though I guess he has managed to distance himself from both Cousins and Fevola so I guess that is something.

Good player I guess. I still say way over-rated. Off-field? Nothing really of note.

In this country in particular it is an achievement as the 'tall poppy' syndrome is rife. Reach success here and the wolves come out. The media both feed it and feed on it. To this point at least Judd has been phenomenal in dodging serious media criticism and hasn't happened by chance.

mjp

16-07-2010, 10:23 AM

You would love to have Juddy in our team. Wouldn't you? However, the Powerade commercials suck! I have enjoyed one or two of his articles as well.

You can never have too many good players, but I am happy with Adam Cooney playing the role of Chris Judd in our side.

He has been involved in leadership in two clubs with mammoth off-field problems and issues over the last five years yet remains essentially untouchable and above the law...that I dont like.

mighty_west

16-07-2010, 12:28 PM

You can never have too many good players, but I am happy with Adam Cooney playing the role of Chris Judd in our side.

He has been involved in leadership in two clubs with mammoth off-field problems and issues over the last five years yet remains essentially untouchable and above the law...that I dont like.

What exactly has he done wrong in that time?

ledge

16-07-2010, 12:52 PM

What exactly has he done wrong in that time?

Pressure points??

mighty_west

16-07-2010, 01:09 PM

Pressure points??

I meant off field, on field Carlton & West Coast are no worse than any other club.

mjp

16-07-2010, 01:10 PM

What exactly has he done wrong in that time?

If he is such an outstanding leader, why are these things happening at clubs where he is either a captain or part of the leadership group?

If he was just presented as a great player I would have no problem - but he is not. He is continually represented as a great leader with outstanding personal values etc - yet the Carlton river cruise happens, Fevola at the Brownlow happens, Chick/Embley punch-on happens...not to mention the issues re- Andrew McDougall at West Coast (and the countless other issues at that club).

We have said repeatedly that the GOOD off-field record of our players reflects WELL on player group leadership...therefore poor off-field behavior reflects poorly on the player leadership (JUDD).

Sorry - I believe he needs to be held more accountable for these issues.

mighty_west

16-07-2010, 01:19 PM

If he is such an outstanding leader, why are these things happening at clubs where he is either a captain or part of the leadership group?

If he was just presented as a great player I would have no problem - but he is not. He is continually represented as a great leader with outstanding personal values etc - yet the Carlton river cruise happens, Fevola at the Brownlow happens, Chick/Embley punch-on happens...not to mention the issues re- Andrew McDougall at West Coast (and the countless other issues at that club).

We have said repeatedly that the GOOD off-field record of our players reflects WELL on player group leadership...therefore poor off-field behavior reflects poorly on the player leadership (JUDD).

Sorry - I believe he needs to be held more accountable for these issues.

I agree with everything you said, and i rate him in the lower end of leaders, in fact, from where i see things, he is as bad as they get, Brad Johnson tears a new one on Judd in regards to leadership qualities.

But, is that his fault, or the way he is put on this pedestal from media?

Doc26

16-07-2010, 01:23 PM

If he is such an outstanding leader, why are these things happening at clubs where he is either a captain or part of the leadership group?

If he was just presented as a great player I would have no problem - but he is not. He is continually represented as a great leader with outstanding personal values etc - yet the Carlton river cruise happens, Fevola at the Brownlow happens, Chick/Embley punch-on happens...not to mention the issues re- Andrew McDougall at West Coast (and the countless other issues at that club).

We have said repeatedly that the GOOD off-field record of our players reflects WELL on player group leadership...therefore poor off-field behavior reflects poorly on the player leadership (JUDD).

Sorry - I believe he needs to be held more accountable for these issues.

So would you also question Brad Johnson's leadership credentials this year because Akermanis has been let off his leash ? Do you question J Brown's credentials because Fevola continues to remain a loose cannon. Maybe there was a part of Judd's desire to leave West Coast because he felt let down by the Club's handling of their consistent off field discretions ?

I agree with everything you said, and i rate him in the lower end of leaders, in fact, from where i see things, he is as bad as they get, Brad Johnson tears a new one on Judd in regards to leadership qualities.

But, is that his fault, or the way he is put on this pedestal from media?

How so ?

ledge

16-07-2010, 01:39 PM

I think the problem lies with Judd being at the Carlton yarra cruise incident but not doing anything.
You cant stop anything if your not there but he was and no leadership was shown by him.

I do have another issue that I find quite amazing, how would you like it if your at a club for 5-6 years been a good VC, and a player who hasnt been at the club comes in and is Captain straight away, I would like to think that you would have to prove yourself to the other players first.

How many clubs nowadays in such a proffessional environment would do this?
I have no doubt it must have upset at least one or two loyal players.

Lets face it he was named captain as part of the lure to get him there.

mighty_west

16-07-2010, 01:41 PM

So would you also question Brad Johnson's leadership credentials this year because Akermanis has been let off his leash ? Do you question J Brown's credentials because Fevola continues to remain a loose cannon. Maybe there was a part of Judd's desire to leave West Coast because he felt let down by the Club's handling of their consistent off field discretions ?

How so ?

The way he handles himself in the media for starters, with Judd, he just never seems to want to be there, and when under pressure, he just does not handle himself what so ever.
There are quite a few leaders that don't do alot media, and thats fine, but just a few times he has come across as being somewhat immature.

Just my opinion of course, but it just seems that Judd is there because he was talked into it, that doesn't make me hate him, just don't rate his leadership skills.

mjp

16-07-2010, 01:57 PM

So would you also question Brad Johnson's leadership credentials this year because Akermanis has been let off his leash ?

Yes - absolutely. Very disappointed with the way the whole Aker thing has been handled by the players.

Do you question J Brown's credentials because Fevola continues to remain a loose cannon.

Absolutely. Between Fevola and Hooper very skeptical of Brown as a leader.

Maybe there was a part of Judd's desire to leave West Coast because he felt let down by the Club's handling of their consistent off field discretions ?

If true, complete cop-out. He was part of the group that came up with the players core-values - the coaches signed up to it as well...

mighty_west

16-07-2010, 02:05 PM

Yes - absolutely. Very disappointed with the way the whole Aker thing has been handled by the players.

What more could Johnno or the players, or even Rocket do? If Aker blabs out something that should have been in house, or lie to the club, how can that be a fault of the players or even the coach?

They all did the right thing, sat him down, give him the 3rd degree etc, what Aker does after that, is really up to Aker, and the way he handles himself, sometimes, the players, especially ones as experienced as Aker have to take responsibilities for themselves.

mjp

16-07-2010, 03:10 PM

What more could Johnno or the players, or even Rocket do? If Aker blabs out something that should have been in house, or lie to the club, how can that be a fault of the players or even the coach?

They all did the right thing, sat him down, give him the 3rd degree etc, what Aker does after that, is really up to Aker, and the way he handles himself, sometimes, the players, especially ones as experienced as Aker have to take responsibilities for themselves.

Totally agree...

...until you remember that it is Aker we are talking about. And if I know he is going to talk to his mates in the media about what was said and what went on, then the club should have known as well.

I am all for being consistent, for dealing with everyone the same way etc etc but having lived through things like the 'handstand issue' with Aker in the past everyone had to know what was going to happen.

Be strong. Be clear. Absolutely. But say nothing else. Make ZERO suggestions to him about personal improvement etc - because it is not a long-term problem you are trying to solve.

- You acted outside our agreed code of behavior.
- You are suspended for 2 weeks.
- You are expected to continue training/play at Willi whatever.
- A further infraction will result in a suspension of x (or whatever).
- Stay within the bounds of our core-values and you will not hear from us again.

They could have done it that way.

ledge

16-07-2010, 03:15 PM

Totally agree...

...until you remember that it is Aker we are talking about. And if I know he is going to talk to his mates in the media about what was said and what went on, then the club should have known as well.

I am all for being consistent, for dealing with everyone the same way etc etc but having lived through things like the 'handstand issue' with Aker in the past everyone had to know what was going to happen.

Be strong. Be clear. Absolutely. But say nothing else. Make ZERO suggestions to him about personal improvement etc - because it is not a long-term problem you are trying to solve.

- You acted outside our agreed code of behavior.
- You are suspended for 2 weeks.
- You are expected to continue training/play at Willi whatever.
- A further infraction will result in a suspension of x (or whatever).
- Stay within the bounds of our core-values and you will not hear from us again.

They could have done it that way.

Maybe they did?

Ghost Dog

16-07-2010, 03:18 PM

:DRight thread? Chris Judd got kidnapped by Aker.

mjp

16-07-2010, 03:21 PM

Maybe they did?

Well, if they did why was Adam Cooney so uncomfortable when Sam Newman grilled him about what Aker had told him???

If what Newman said was true, then they didn't do what I suggested...there were a lot of comments passed and questions raised which - given the target - were always going to slip out...

I know, I know - everything should stay behind closed doors etc etc, it is all Aker's fault, he shouldn't have blabbed to Newman or Price or whoever...but he did. And knowing Aker I think that was a pretty predictable outcome.

mighty_west

16-07-2010, 03:48 PM

Well, if they did why was Adam Cooney so uncomfortable when Sam Newman grilled him about what Aker had told him???

If what Newman said was true, then they didn't do what I suggested...there were a lot of comments passed and questions raised which - given the target - were always going to slip out...

I know, I know - everything should stay behind closed doors etc etc, it is all Aker's fault, he shouldn't have blabbed to Newman or Price or whoever...but he did. And knowing Aker I think that was a pretty predictable outcome.

Aker broke the golden rule, what is said in the club, stays in the club, and he also lied to the club about the editing of the original article, not too sure the best of leadership groups could do alot about something like that, he has done it before, under a club that won 3 Premierships & one of the most respected captains [Voss] & coaches [Matthews].

Part of the blame i guess, should goto the club itself for knowing what they were getting with Aker, and then in his last season, stripping down his salary, but giving him a free'er licence in the media as a sweetner, not too sure our captain should take alot of the blame for his own wrong doing's.

Similar i guess with Hall, Aker could always be a distraction off field with his strong opinions, Baz as well on field with his anger, i'm sure most of us had our hearts in mouths the game v North.

Let's just hope that this week, with Aker being tightly lipped on radio about what went on, that he can now knuckle down and finish off his career in a positive blaze of glory.

mighty_west

16-07-2010, 03:49 PM

:DRight thread? Chris Judd got kidnapped by Aker.

It is all about Aker...i'm sure he will tell you that himself...:p

Ghost Dog

16-07-2010, 04:51 PM

Part of the blame i guess, should goto the club itself for knowing what they were getting with Aker, and then in his last season, stripping down his salary, but giving him a free'er licence in the media as a sweetner, not too sure our captain should take alot of the blame for his own wrong doing's.

Right. What's to blame the players, captain or coach for ? I actually think all of this is working very well for us!Firstly, IMO the club has handled it all really well. Strong and clear, no BS.
You told Sam or you didn't Aker....sorry, we don't care. It got out. Have a holiday in the VFL.

The whole affair paints us as strong and able to handle wild cards like Aker. Adam did well on the footy show. Rocket has been very clear and even handed. What's not to like?

Secondly, how can you blame the club? Their job is to secure the best players for us and they have done that. Sure, he's a bit of a circus, but well below Heath Shaw / Alan Didak, Steven Milne, Fendon Bevola and others. Aker rates well below these PR disasters.
We all know he is not really club man of the year, but more of a mercenary we may or may not need. Our return on investment has been pretty good so far but declined.

Now on the fringe our 22, we can't lose from it as we Don't need him. Luxury of choice to use him if we choose at the business end of the season.

If he takes his medicine and tows the line, as he should, I will be cheering for him, hell yeah. Who cares about the past transgressions. If he takes his meds, and As long as he kicks goals and has something to contribute on field. His final curtain call approaches with each week anyway. Grin and bear it.

Well handled Bulldogs.

PS. Chris Judd eats puppies!

LongWait

16-07-2010, 05:01 PM

Right. What's to blame the players, captain or coach for ? I actually think all of this is working very well for us!Firstly, IMO the club has handled it all really well. Strong and clear, no BS.
You told Sam or you didn't Aker....sorry, we don't care. It got out. Have a holiday in the VFL.

The whole affair paints us as strong and able to handle wild cards like Aker. Adam did well on the footy show. Rocket has been very clear and even handed. What's not to like?

Secondly, how can you blame the club? Their job is to secure the best players for us and they have done that. Sure, he's a bit of a circus, but well below Heath Shaw / Alan Didak, Steven Milne, Fendon Bevola and others. Aker rates well below these PR disasters.
We all know he is not really club man of the year, but more of a mercenary we may or may not need. Our return on investment has been pretty good so far but declined.

Now on the fringe our 22, we can't lose from it as we Don't need him. Luxury of choice to use him if we choose at the business end of the season.

If he takes his medicine and tows the line, as he should, I will be cheering for him, hell yeah. Who cares about the past transgressions. If he takes his meds, and As long as he kicks goals and has something to contribute on field. His final curtain call approaches with each week anyway. Grin and bear it.

Well handled Bulldogs.

PS. Chris Judd eats puppies!

Summed up things beautifully Ghost Dog and I agree with everything except the Chris Judd eats puppies bit - the puppies tore Chris a new one last weekend!

AndrewP6

16-07-2010, 09:14 PM

Absolutely. Between Fevola and Hooper very skeptical of Brown as a leader.
.

I'd rather Browny than Judd as a leader. He can't be blamed for his club's choice to recruit two dropkicks... as the old saying goes, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"...

boydogs

16-07-2010, 10:54 PM

chef

17-07-2010, 06:49 AM

We didn't have much choice with the way Aker backflipped on 2009 being his last season after we had already planned out what we were going to do. The players took paycuts and we still took a while to sign Lake & Eagleton at the end there

We essentially relied on 3rd party payments with Aker's media work supplementing his income to fund our list under the cap in order to keep him on board, we moved heaven and earth to keep him for one more year, and he has let us down terribly on and off field so far.

I hope that this story has a fairytale ending, as he is just what we need up forward at the moment

I'm not sure he is, as he has really struggled this year and is not the player he used to be. Sadly I think the game has passed him by, but hopefully he can prove me wrong.

boydogs

17-07-2010, 11:23 AM

I'm not sure he is, as he has really struggled this year and is not the player he used to be. Sadly I think the game has passed him by, but hopefully he can prove me wrong.

I think that is a bit of a sweeping statement. Being older he is more susceptible to soft tissue injuries and has had hamstring trouble, and being a burst player this has really affected his game style

He had a breakout quarter for Willi last week, and hopefully will come back firing after the extra week off avoiding the Darwin trip and help us to win the crucial Freo game

Topdog

17-07-2010, 11:39 AM

I'm not sure he is, as he has really struggled this year and is not the player he used to be. Sadly I think the game has passed him by, but hopefully he can prove me wrong.

The fact the he is 2nd or 3rd in our goal assists tally yet has missed 4 games and been "crap" this year suggests that we could still use him.

Jasper

17-07-2010, 01:42 PM

Brand Judd (as David King would say) is the strongest the AFL has seen. For mine he is the best mid I have seen. Peter Matera's acceleration and skill, along with G Ablett like contested footy.

But gee what other player could get away with not being questioned more about these loosely connected associations:

Drugs

In the midst of the drug scandal at West Coast:

1 - He was captain when Ben went off the rails
2 - Wasn't he mates with Ben?
3 - Didn't he live with Kerr when Kerr was caught on tape buying coke?
4 - His long term girlfriend is a model (and the fashion industry is drug free??)
5 - His rapid departure from the wild west when the drug scandal was kicking off..

His onfield actions

1 - Twice he has been guilty of eye gouging one of the most despised and dangerous acts on a footy field
2 - He split open Bambi (Pav) and got away scot free

His loyalty and integrity:

1 - His decision to leave a club of which he was a premiership captain (is there any other player in recent history who as recent premiership captain has swapped clubs). Remember the hatred Leigh Colbert had shovelled on him when he moved from Geelong to North Melbourne. Its not like Judd wasn't settled in WA with a WA girlfriend with her family there, making a bit of a mockery of the homesick line...
2 - His decision to leave his club when it was nearly at its lowest...like a rat leaving a sinking ship
3 - His willingness to do a deal with Visy/Carlton and bully West Coast into trading with Carlton and only Carlton by threatening pre season draft.
4 - Everyone's suspicions re his salary cap compliance with the Visy deal, not to the mention the alleged favourable property and McDonals/HJ franchise deals players in the Wild West have allegedly done

Personally don't know if any of the above provide reasonable grounds for suspicions about him, I am just very surprised he hasn't been grilled about them by a fawning media (not unlike Tiger pre sex scandal).

Brand Juddy is very very strong. The guy has more teflon coating on him than T Woods at his peak...
Good luck to him.

And of course none of us are just tall poppy cutting because he has millions, his mum composes dirges for him, he has a hot girlfriend, he is a premiership captain, is spoken of as one of the best players ever, intelligent, well spoken, he is a brownlow medalist....it feels so petty and dirty questioning him, maybe that is why he gets the treatment he does.

The Boy From Brasil

17-07-2010, 02:23 PM

Well of course I don't hate HIM personally and I'm sure if any one out there knows him he's a great guy and blah blah blah.

BUT........... what he represents....%#@(*!!!

He's left one club to chase money. Lots of players do it and he was homesick and etc etc.
But anyone see Jonathon Brown leaving the Lions for a big comfortable deal somewhere else? Or Pavlich? ( Actually hope they both come to the Dogs secretly)

And where does he end up? CAAAARRRRLLTON the home of the big fat rich smug cheats.

1)He left his club to come home for family reasons. He had given the West Coast great service and captained their side to a premiership. No one can really begrudge a player coming home to family and their home town. An AFL club takes that risk when they draft an interstate player.

2)The only reason he ended up at Carlton was because they were the only Victorian club who could get the deal done(because of their high draft picks). Carlton wasn't his first choice of clubs to go to.

3)The payments he gets from Visy outside of the cap is an absolute disgrace and a disadvantage to us and other struggling clubs. However IMO the fault for this lies with the AFL and their weak stance of that practice. It makes a whole mockery of having a salary cap in the first place.

mjp

17-07-2010, 03:09 PM

1)He left his club to come home for family reasons. He had given the West Coast great service and captained their side to a premiership. No one can really begrudge a player coming home to family and their home town. An AFL club takes that risk when they draft an interstate player.

I don't disagree, but if Harbrow goes to the GC I hope you cop it sweet.

boydogs

17-07-2010, 04:11 PM

I don't disagree, but if Harbrow goes to the GC I hope you cop it sweet.

The Gold Coast is closer to Melbourne than his hometown of Cairns

mjp

17-07-2010, 06:08 PM

The Gold Coast is closer to Melbourne than his hometown of Cairns

True...but if you make Cairns the destination it is a tad closer from the GC than from Melbourne.

chef

17-07-2010, 06:36 PM

I think that is a bit of a sweeping statement. Being older he is more susceptible to soft tissue injuries and has had hamstring trouble, and being a burst player this has really affected his game style

He had a breakout quarter for Willi last week, and hopefully will come back firing after the extra week off avoiding the Darwin trip and help us to win the crucial Freo game

It is, but I'm not a fan and think we are better off without his distractions(as well as the other things I have already mentioned).

LostDoggy

17-07-2010, 07:10 PM

I don't disagree, but if Harbrow goes to the GC I hope you cop it sweet.

Depends on what we get for Harbrow? If we get 2 first rounds banked for five years, I'd take it. I know Jarrod is flying but he was a rookie and in buisness terms, selling him now is a top return for investment.

Don't get me wrong Jarrod Harbow is a gun and would be greatly missed, but we just drafted two half back line players. I'm not saying they could cover him but we seem to have many of them sort of players.

Who knows where we will be in four or five years but we may very well need them picks up our sleeve, or need could be to strong of a word. Let's just hope they could be handy.

boydogs

17-07-2010, 10:31 PM

True...but if you make Cairns the destination it is a tad closer from the GC than from Melbourne.

So its a 2 hour flight as opposed to 3.5 hours - I can't see that winning him over

mjp

19-07-2010, 10:14 AM

Depends on what we get for Harbrow? If we get 2 first rounds banked for five years, I'd take it.

I am not sure what this means but you cannot trade future picks if that is what you are getting at.

mighty_west

19-07-2010, 10:21 AM

I am not sure what this means but you cannot trade future picks if that is what you are getting at.

Not having to use your picks during the GC or GWS drafts, if we get 2 first rounders for Harbrow, we can use those picks in the 2012 draft.

EasternWest

19-07-2010, 11:59 AM

In this country in particular it is an achievement as the 'tall poppy' syndrome is rife. Reach success here and the wolves come out. The media both feed it and feed on it. To this point at least Judd has been phenomenal in dodging serious media criticism and hasn't happened by chance.

Can only speak for myself here, but I don't dislike Judd just to cut down a tall poppy, I dislike him because I think he's a dirty player.

not to mention the issues re- Andrew McDougall at West Coast (and the countless other issues at that club).

Sorry to drag up an old point mjp but I'm not familiar with what happened with MacDougall. Can you elaborate?

Doc26

19-07-2010, 12:46 PM

Can only speak for myself here, but I don't dislike Judd just to cut down a tall poppy, I dislike him because I think he's a dirty player.

Sorry to drag up an old point mjp but I'm not familiar with what happened with McDougall. Can you elaborate?

It's not that one isn't allowed to dislike him, the 'tall poppy' thing has more to do with the fact that there are many other players out there that would be equally if not more deserving of a "dirty player" tag than Chris Judd yet I don't see a plefora of "Why I hate Andrew Carrazzo" type threads etc etc.

EasternWest

19-07-2010, 12:59 PM

It's not that one isn't allowed to dislike him, the 'tall poppy' thing has more to do with the fact that there are many other players out there that would be equally if not more deserving of a "dirty player" tag than Chris Judd yet I don't see a plefora of "Why I hate Andrew Carrazzo" type threads etc etc.

Fair enough. This thread however does exist, so I thought I'd add my two bob's worth.

mjp

19-07-2010, 01:55 PM

Sorry to drag up an old point mjp but I'm not familiar with what happened with McDougall. Can you elaborate?

PM on its way.

Greystache

19-07-2010, 04:35 PM

PM on its way.

If you wouldn't mind PM'ing me too MJP? I was living overseas when we traded for McDougal.

AndrewP6

19-07-2010, 07:36 PM

If you wouldn't mind PM'ing me too MJP? I was living overseas when we traded for McDougal.

Me too!!!

Desipura

20-07-2010, 09:29 AM

If you wouldn't mind PM'ing me too MJP? I was living overseas when we traded for McDougal.
If ok, I would like a pm as well MJP.

chef

20-07-2010, 09:53 AM

If ok, I would like a pm as well MJP.

While your at it mjp can you pm me too.

Ghost Dog

20-07-2010, 10:00 AM

Jeez! Just put it up on a blogger site anon and post the link. :D

LostDoggy

21-07-2010, 05:02 AM

What more could Johnno or the players, or even Rocket do? If Aker blabs out something that should have been in house, or lie to the club, how can that be a fault of the players or even the coach?

Whatever drove the initial Aker discipline action / question time from Thursday afternoon to Tuesday in the following week was a major cause of this disaster. Not only did it take attention away from the Hall of Fame night, but it made the club look indecisive, created the perception that the issue was being played up because the team's form at the time was poor, and allowed a media story that needed (and still needs) to be put to bed to gather momentum.

Was the leadership group responsible for that? I'm honestly not sure. But the club as a whole certainly was.

If the leadership group did request during that meeting that Aker abandon media contracts worth more than the club was paying him (he did halve his salary after all - a fact sometimes forgotten when people question his commitment to the club) then our playing list is led by nine impractical men.

Aker's ‘crime’ was that he told the club that the Herald Sun had inserted the infamous 'fabric of the club' line into his article, and that he then allowed Brad Johnson and Rodney Eade to publically defend him with that untruth. Of course, the Herald Sun in reality inserts every line into Aker's articles as he is incapable of writing the bloody things himself, and it’s likely that when Aker last bothered to read 'his' controversial column that the ‘fabric’ line was not in the text. He later approved a different version and failed to provide the final copy to the club. He came off looking like a fool who doesn't know what goes into his own columns, who embarrassed his captain and coach, and who questioned the integrity of the newspaper that employs him.

Could that issue not have been handled with a week's suspension on day one and a demand that he publically apologise to Rocket and Johnno for so appalling leading them astray when they were doing the decent think and standing up for one of their own? What happened within the walls of the football club and leadership group that turned an ordinary act into a saga? The reputations of Johnson and Eade were not hurt at all by the affair; it was Aker who sold them into trouble and reputations of men of their standing are not tarnished by relatively minor occurrences brought about by someone with Aker's reputation.

If those events led to a demand to walk away from $200,000 worth of media responsibilities to prove commitment to the team, then it is worth questioning the collective frame of mind of the leadership group, what factors led to such an extraordinary conclusion, and what role the administration played during the affair. Something that needed to be settled at least publically in one afternoon is still prominent because of poor leadership, not good. That is partly the responsibility of the players, partly the responsibility of Jason Akermanis, and predominantly the responsibility of our administration. Remembering Bob Murphy's article on this at the time and listening to David Smorgan talk about Aker on Friday night in Darwin, I wonder if the club isn't caught up in some group think about how this issue reflects on the Western Bulldogs. What they seem to see as a great example of the club's leaders setting its standards in stone, is in fact far from our finest hour.