The Premiership - do we have the players or Do we need 1 more player at least?

[bornadog]

Its been an interesting season to date, we have lost two games by 3 points and 3 by a few goals. Do we have the players this year to win it, or do we need at least one more top line player, or more?

What role would you suggest if you feel we need to replace some of our current players?

If you feel we can do it with the current batch, then who else must come into the best 22?

[LostDoggy]

I think we have the talent to win it, but i still question whether we are mentally up to it.

[LostDoggy]

We have the talent to win it, as long as our list is 100%. We need Mitch Hahn in his '08' form and two Murphys so one can play back and one forward. :D

[Ghost Dog]

Reckon we could do with another specialist tagger type. Really noticed it when Liam was absent from the side earlier in the year. Not to play two, but another shut down specialist in case of injury.
Who is our best tagger besides Liam do y'all think?

[LostDoggy]

Reckon we could do with another specialist tagger type. Really noticed it when Liam was absent from the side earlier in the year. Not to play two, but another shut down specialist in case of injury.
Who is our best tagger besides Liam do y'all think?

Probably Cross or Boydy depending on the player which is why Picken is so important!

[boydogs]

We have the players IMO when they are at their best. If I could pick one player to add, it would be a CHF as we have struggled to fill that role this year with Johnson & Murphy underdone. Grant has done well, but ideally you don't want such an inexperienced player having to fill a key position

[stefoid]

I think we need that dangerous crumbing forward who can manufacture goals and applies heaps of defensive pressure.

Im hoping that player is Aker.

[Ghost Dog]

I think we need that dangerous crumbing forward who can manufacture goals and applies heaps of defensive pressure.

Im hoping that player is Aker.

Milne type player?

[Bulldog Revolution]

I think a lot of us thought we had the cattle this year, but the reality of the year is that we are not up to it.

Our players do not perform at the consistently high level that is required to win it

Obviously I hope that the group can put it together at the business end but the bulk of the form we have shown this year has been poor.

The glaring hole in the team is a small crumbing forward. We dont have one on the list. We have small/medium forwards but none of them are really crumbers or forward pressure players.

[Desipura]

I think a lot of us thought we had the cattle this year, but the reality of the year is that we are not up to it.

Our players do not perform at the consistently high level that is required to win it

Obviously I hope that the group can put it together at the business end but the bulk of the form we have shown this year has been poor.

The glaring hole in the team is a small crumbing forward. We dont have one on the list. We have small/medium forwards but none of them are really crumbers or forward pressure players.
If we had a small crumbing forward, would we be good enough?

[LostDoggy]

I noticed Picken spent some time up forward and really hassled the blues defenders when they attempted to clear or halved contests when others let superior numbers win out. This was what we have been crying out for all year as it creates a contest that others can exploit. Means we need another ultra competitive tagger in midfield to replace if we are to push Picken forward for sustained periods

[LostDoggy]

1. My concern is our ability to win in close when the pressure is on. We still seem to allow opposition teams a little easier access to getting the ball free from stoppages or centre bounces.
2. Under pressure and not under pressure our kicking skills have been woeful at times.

Is this because we don't set up right in relation to each other, or is it because we lack enough players with burst speed to get free?

And there's no hope if we keep the clanger count high. In the game style that we play we really do need to hit targets, especially with our designated kickers going forward. Skill and timing the issue here.

Maybe we have a couple of players in the forward half just not good enough in contested situations for premiership football. You just can't afford to have a couple of players go missing for the day, yet we seem to do this regularly.

[Go_Dogs]

Ideally, I'd have one more quick, defensive, goal sneak forward who can also perhaps give us some pace further up the field too. Aaron Davey is probably a good example of who would be a good fit IMO.

I do think we have a good enough list at present, and believe we have as strong or stronger players across every line as any of the top sides. It's now up to our guys to prove that they can execute it on the biggest stages.

[mjp]

I think we're fine.

I don't think there is room in the team for all of the forwards on our list though and whenever we go in with more than 3 or 4 specialist forwards we are doomed to fail.

Hall - Johnson - Gia - Grant. There might be room for Hill or Aker if we push Gia to the midfield proper...When we play with the 4 listed plus Hill, Aker and Hahn we are almost playing 2-3 short.

The small forward thing doesn't bother me too much - we don't have a good one so why worry? That job really needs to get done by the guys running through the middle of the field who react better than their opponent in transition and get to the contest...

[stefoid]

Milne type player?

Rioli would be my choice.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I think a lot of us thought we had the cattle this year, but the reality of the year is that we are not up to it.

Our players do not perform at the consistently high level that is required to win it

Obviously I hope that the group can put it together at the business end but the bulk of the form we have shown this year has been poor.

The glaring hole in the team is a small crumbing forward. We dont have one on the list. We have small/medium forwards but none of them are really crumbers or forward pressure players.

Our forward line doesn't appear good enough to win a flag. With the exception of Barry Hall who has been outstanding we have generally lacked class in attack. Grant has been good and will get better. It might be time to move Murphy back into attack to give us a touch of brilliance that players like Gia and Higgins do not possess. The other matter of concern is the lack of a high marking forward. Whilst Barry Hall is great on the lead we really struggle when the ball is kicked high under pressure which will undoubtedly occur come finals time. I would be tempted to try Liam Jones as someone who could compete in the air and would provide additional support to Hall.

[LostDoggy]

I agree with most points raised! very good discussion!

The small chasing/tackling forward is something we are really lacking IMO. Yes we have enough small forwards.. But not one of them work anywhere near hard enough defensively..

You look at Geelong, someone like Travis Varcoe would be perfect. It seems his first priority is to chase and tackle. Then the goals eventuate from that.

Even against the blues, the number of times i saw Walker/Russel/Gibbs strolling out of defence with the hardly any pressure was frustrating! We are just lucky their disposal was so poor.

It's a really big issue IMO and i'm not sure we have the player/players to come in and rectify this..

[westdog54]

Great thread, some well informed and thought out discussion so far.




Hall - Johnson - Gia - Grant. There might be room for Hill or Aker if we push Gia to the midfield proper...When we play with the 4 listed plus Hill, Aker and Hahn we are almost playing 2-3 short.

Agree with this. Personally I feel more is lost than gained pushing Gia out of the forward line. His marking power for his size in incredibly underrated, and realistically, only one of the other 3 you mentioned can squeeze in. Hahn's a shadow of the player he used to be, Aker is doing himself no favours off the field, and Hill has the talent but not the desire. If we were to go all the way, a tough call will probably need to be made for the big dance. I won't envy the match committe that night. I can see it being a long, heated session.


Milne type player?

As MJP said, we don't have a small forward of that quality at the moment, so no point worrying about it.

Say whatever you like about Milne, about him being a dirty player on/off the field, and how most of his goals are over the back of the pack and running uncontested into the goalsquare. Well bloody hell, that's what good small forwards do and if his opponent isn't wise to it and gives him the space to do it, then job done. And if he can do it 3 or 4 times a game, that could be match won or lost right there.

[LostDoggy]

Wouldn't mind having Montagna and Bartel in there..

Too much of an ask? ;)

[BulldogBelle]

We have been needing a small forward crumber all year. Maybe that's why they have been persevering so much with Stack, although Stack has consistently disappointed.

What about Hooper? I suppose the selection committee have a fair grip on his training form and his form at Willi. I'd like to see him given a go in the seniors, sooner than later. A player can be quite a different prospect given training, Willi or seniors form.

I don't think that we can play Johnson, Eagleton and Akermanis in the same team come the finals. These are all old guys and are prone to injury (such as calf or hamstring) and their skills and endurance will deteriorate. I think that the selectors should take this as a principle and advise the players. I think that the pecking order should be Johnno, then Acker then Eagles. (although I think Acker can be a better player than Johnno).

Sustaining an injury during a match severely compromises the player bench rotation system. However, if Johnno is injured (as in last week) they can plonk him on the full-forward line and he will take a good opposition player out of the event. But if Eagles or Acne are injured they will not be able to be hidden as well.

Good to see Everitt get a gig this week. Giving Eagleton a game wastes a golden opportunity for trying out Hooper.

[Ghost Dog]

Good to see Everitt get a gig this week. Giving Eagleton a game wastes a golden opportunity for trying out Hooper.

Interesting post. Agree with those points.

I think Harbrow was disappointed as well. He was looking forward to not being the shortest in the team. :D

[Ghost Dog]

Say whatever you like about Milne, about him being a dirty player on/off the field, and how most of his goals are over the back of the pack and running uncontested into the goalsquare. Well bloody hell, that's what good small forwards do and if his opponent isn't wise to it and gives him the space to do it, then job done. And if he can do it 3 or 4 times a game, that could be match won or lost right there.

Here Here

[Doc26]

Would be great to have a fit, firing and zipped up Akermanis type.

[Mantis]

Say whatever you like about Milne, about him being a dirty player on/off the field, and how most of his goals are over the back of the pack and running uncontested into the goalsquare. Well bloody hell, that's what good small forwards do and if his opponent isn't wise to it and gives him the space to do it, then job done. And if he can do it 3 or 4 times a game, that could be match won or lost right there.

I will say that Milne is one of the reasons why St.Kilda lost last years GF and he is one player who struggles to perform at an expected level when he is under the pump.

When he found space in the GF he froze and using him as an example in this discussion is unwarranted.

[Mantis]

Giving Eagleton a game wastes a golden opportunity for trying out Hooper.

Eagleton with his superior fitness will give us much more run through the midfield which could be important in taxing conditions. Hooper who doesn't have the 'engine' of his more experienced team-mate would be stuck in a FP.

[Desipura]

I will say that Milne is one of the reasons why St.Kilda lost last years GF and he is one player who struggles to perform at an expected level when he is under the pump.

When he found space in the GF he froze and using him as an example in this discussion is unwarranted.
This ^^^^^^^^^

[stefoid]

Well, we cant pull a crumbing small forward out of our bottoms, so our choices are:

aker - not what he used to be, but if fit and firing he can do a job, and he does work hard defensively.

stack - average performances, plus injured now means season over for him

hooper - unknown quantity

harbrow - prefer to see him further down-field where his ability to carry the footy will be more telling

thats it, ladies and gents, take your pick.

I reckon aker will be given a few weeks to prove he has the desire, and if not, we may give hooper a run or two.

[mighty_west]

Eagleton with his superior fitness will give us much more run through the midfield which could be important in taxing conditions. Hooper who doesn't have the 'engine' of his more experienced team-mate would be stuck in a FP.

Exactly, and not many players can gut run as much as Eagleton can.

[Ghost Dog]

I will say that Milne is one of the reasons why St.Kilda lost last years GF and he is one player who struggles to perform at an expected level when he is under the pump.

When he found space in the GF he froze and using him as an example in this discussion is unwarranted.

Why is it 'unwarranted ' to use Milne as an example?
As much as I dislike him, he is St Kilda's leading goal scorer which shows that despite stunty disposition and age,
player of that mold can really hurt opponents.

What he has or has not managed to do in one game is really besides the point.
Substitute Rodan, Eddie betts, Stokes, even Aker! if only he could keep it shut.
Forward pocket could perhaps use a crumbing forward to pick up the spoils from Barry.
Grant is doing a good job at the moment as our 'small forward':D

[LostDoggy]

Exactly, and not many players can gut run as much as Eagleton can.

As much as I like the Eagle, I remember being at the Brisbane game early in the year and he had his bread and butter served to him (kicking from fifty) and twice he looked liked it was beyond him. I couldn't help but think, this guy may help us get there, but he wont help us win it.

[Jasper]

If we had a small crumbing forward, would we be good enough?


If any other single player could, I would think a small foward could win us a premiership all other things being equal.

But I think a leader who could stand up under pressure, bring others with them, and deliver a goal would be the person I would have, take your pick from J Brown, P Chapman, Hodge, N Reiwoldt, B Goddard, J Bartel, B Harvey..there aren't that many others - would be better.

Paul Chapman combines being a small forward and leader. He is it.

Brent Harvey would be my next pick.

Then there is Cyril...

But living in the real world, we have a small forward who is a three time premiership player with guts, skill, goal sense, a desire to stand up and take responsibility, a player who revels under pressure, and who still has some speed. Aker must be it, its the reason he was brought to club despite the baggage, and he will be back soon.

[LostDoggy]

would be great to have a fit, firing and zipped up akermanis type.

In light of today's event, this is amusing :)

[BulldogBelle]

We have the cattle, I just think our blokes fail in the mental fortitude stakes.
I believe we are more talented than the 3 top contenders (cats/saints/pies), but we are more fragile mentally than these sides. I believe this is evidenced by the glaring stat that has us at 2 wins from 11 over the last few rears against these top sides. In many of our losing finals and home and away games against these top three sides we are regularly in winning positions with minutes to go. Due to some mental barrier we seem to lose the arm wrestle in the dying minutes of these games. After these games, we on this board are usually stuck talking about a missed kick, tackle a stupid ump etc, etc.... But I think we've seen it enough times to constitute a trend. I don't know what the answer is and how we can mentally will ourselves to win the tight games against the best, but their collective brains are the major barrier between a flag and also rans...