Roughead or Minson?

[jazzadogs]

Roughy had an extremely impressive game today, showcasing his mobility and skills. Also showed good strength in the ruck, nullifying and at times beating an absolute mountain in Sandilands.

Minson has had an average year, seriously affected by the Soy milk incident and his recent ankle (?) injury, but is a 100+ game player now. Had an average game for Willy by all accounts, but still seemed proppy so a week or two away from seniors at least.

So the question is...will Will get back into the side, or is Roughy doing enough to hold down the 'second ruck' position?


My opinion is that Roughead's mobility and skills are better than Will's, and he so far has not made any critical mistakes. He provides a strong marking option in the forward line, having three shots at goal today (although Will has seemingly improved his contested marking this year).

I think Eade will get Will back into the side due to his experience, but I am really impressed with how Roughead is going and would feel completely comfortable with him in the side come September.

[LostDoggy]

My thoughts on this subject are well documented on the forum, i would have Roughy in the team full time.

[Rocco Jones]

I think Roughead also works smarter to get into good positions both forward and back.

Will's main strength over Roughead is exactly that, his strength.

I would definitely have Roughead in the side next week and let Will earn his spot back as well as fitness at Willy. If Roughie keeps on playing like he did today, it will be a pretty easy decision to make though.

[Mantis]

I'm starting to lean towards neither.

We look best when we are running and am starting to think that Everitt would offer more than Roughy and Minson and between him and Williams they could ruck while Hudson is resting.

[GVGjr]

Minson said today that its at least another week at Williamstown before he will come into consideration. In the end I think we need Minson back but Roughead is going OK

[ledge]

Roughy will be a huge asset after another preseason

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I think that Will has proven himself as a good ruckman, the benefit Will has over Roughy is the extra weight and come September you run into man mountains each week.

The benefit of Roughy is he looks better around the ground and in life after Huddo he will easily take on the number one ruck duties every week.

The question then remains do we have a Mulligan/Prato/Cordy to push Will a side?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I'm starting to lean towards neither.

We look best when we are running and am starting to think that Everitt would offer more than Roughy and Minson and between him and Williams they could ruck while Hudson is resting.

I was quite surprised today to see Tommy ruck at 3 centre bounces. He did really well and got the ball to our advantage at each bounce.

The question is will his body stand up to the ruck?

[bornadog]

Come finals time, Minson for me, but Roughie is a beauty isn't he.

[Mantis]

I was quite surprised today to see Tommy ruck at 3 centre bounces. He did really well and got the ball to our advantage at each bounce.

The question is will his body stand up to the ruck?

I think he would be ok in short bursts against 'like types'.

[Desipura]

Long term Roughy will be the better ruckman, right now Minson offers more in terms of experience and physical strength around the stoppages.

[bornadog]

Long term Roughy will be the better ruckman, right now Minson offers more in terms of experience and physical strength around the stoppages.

Long term they will be an awesome duo.

[Desipura]

Long term they will be an awesome duo.
Not sure on Minsons long term prospects, will wait and see on that one.

[Greystache]

Minson this year for me, Roughead long term easily.

Minson should be made to produce an outstanding game for Willi before getting a call up.

[LostDoggy]

Why not play all 3 (Hudson, Minson and Roughhead)? Playing one in a true rucking role rotating onto the bench with whoever is resting in the forward pocket going into the ruck and whoever is on the bench rotating into the forward pocket. Would certainly stretch most opposition backlines. Just like my imagination!

[Jasper]

Don't know if anyone noticed but before Minson injured his ankle, he was starting to clunk a couple of overhead marks. And he appeared to be making better decisions, and playing with more discipline. Didn't see today, but reckon Will would be a Monty to play finals. Think Eade likes the strength the two rucks offer.

[The Pie Man]

Good problem to have, and as has been pointed out in this thread, happy that Williams is no slouch in the centre square either

[Mofra]

Obviously Minson has the strength, but Roughy has that special "something" about him.

I think Minson will come back & push Roughy out come finals, but next year it may be a different story.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned - Minson's kicking for goal is much better than Roughead. Roughy has better hands for mine; not just overhead, but he is very quick handballing in close. Will be phenomenal in a couple of years.

[lemmon]

Minson based purely on his experience come finals time but Roughy has a tremedous future and will go on to bigger and better things

[soupman]

As many have said, Minson now, Roughead in coming years. The Minson and Roughead combo could be great, and throw in Cordy somewhere and we have a strong ruck division for the future.

On Roughead, he is impressive in two areas other than typical ruck roles. His positioning offensively is good, he makes himself a linkman and offers long target. The other is his ability to gather the ball. The amount of times today that he plucked it with one hand or scooped it up cleanly was impressive. He just moves so well and is so coordinated.

[angelopetraglia]

Roughead is going to be a great player for many years and is not that far behind Minson. But when the heat is on and extra physicality of finals, I would prefer Minson.

[whythelongface]

I'm starting to lean towards neither.

We look best when we are running and am starting to think that Everitt would offer more than Roughy and Minson and between him and Williams they could ruck while Hudson is resting.


That is a very good point and worth serious consideration. However i doubt the selectors would consider this.

[MrMahatma]

Roughie will be a far, far better player. Would've been good to see him slot those shots on goal.

I doubt we'll see him full time until 2012 though. No point ruining him long term. He's going to be a gun. When Huddo is gone it'll be Minson & Roughead - with hopefully Cordy putting pressure on them both.

[Doc26]

Granted Fremantle where rubbish but I'm leaning towards Roughead over Minson for the time being but certainly is a nice problem to have. I like the balance between Hudson and Roughead with Hudson providing experience, grunt and talent with Roughead's more 'polished' skills really starting to shine through. The force is strong in this one. Now to find a place for Everitt but where ?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Granted Fremantle where rubbish but I'm leaning towards Roughead over Minson for the time being but certainly is a nice problem to have. I like the balance between Hudson and Roughead with Hudson providing experience, grunt and talent with Roughead's more 'polished' skills really starting to shine through. The force is strong in this one. Now to find a place for Everitt but where ?

We should continue with Roughead at the expense of Minson.There is always the danger of not being willing to develop younger players like Wood and Grant and now Roughead who are the future of the club. I would also like to see Liam Jones played sooner than later to complement Hall as a second big forward. The Club seems to have turned away from Everitt as a future senior player.

[LostDoggy]

I think that Will has proven himself as a good ruckman, the benefit Will has over Roughy is the extra weight and come September you run into man mountains each week.

The benefit of Roughy is he looks better around the ground and in life after Huddo he will easily take on the number one ruck duties every week.

The question then remains do we have a Mulligan/Prato/Cordy to push Will a side?

Things are looking bright though going forward.
Once Hudson goes its looking like a Minson / Roughy combo at minimum :).

[Bulldog4life]

I was quite surprised today to see Tommy ruck at 3 centre bounces. He did really well and got the ball to our advantage at each bounce.

The question is will his body stand up to the ruck?

Yes I was impressed and surprised with Tom's ability in the ruck although for a very small time.

[Bulldog Joe]

No doubt our premiership chances are better with Will this year.

Consider if something happened to Hudson, then Minson can cover for the game.

At this stage Roughy is purely a back up option giving the main man a chance to rest. However it is fantastic to see that he can come into the side and be a strong contributor. Just see that he needs a little more time to be the week in week out ruckman.

I too am really impressed with Roughy and can see him being a real leader at the club in years to come.

[LostDoggy]

Yesterday was my first really good look at Roughy and I must admit I was impressed with his "smarts", and his leap. He took the game on a couple of times, and doesn't seem at all fazed by anything. Bodes very well for the future me thinks!:D

[cinder]

I think Minno in the short term, and Roughie in the long depending on how he's going

[Cooney17]

I think it really depends on which Minson rocks up on the day, he is so inconsistant and unreliable. His disposal efficentcy is at 62%, which is the lowest for the club after Sam Reid (who has only played the one game this season). I don't know about anyone else but whenever Mino has the ball I get a little bit worried, where as I have found that Roughy is smarter with his disposals and I have more faith in his decision making.

But when it boils down to it, Minson has the experiance so I would assume Rocket would go with him and I agree with people talking about Roughead being an exciting future prospect.

[stefoid]

If Roughead can keep playing like he played today, Minson is going to find it hard to get back in.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

Really love Big Will, but I'm wanting us to stick with ROUGHY:) Now if he can just work out his kicking!!!!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If Roughead can keep playing like he played today, Minson is going to find it hard to get back in.

Disagree.

His effort was good and he's certainly improving, but Minson gives us more, especially in the ruck contests. I lost count the amount of times Roughy jumped too early and he made a few errors with the ball in hand, too.

If Minson did what Roughead did today, he'd of been canned by everyone on here.

[LostDoggy]

Disagree.

His effort was good and he's certainly improving, but Minson gives us more, especially in the ruck contests. I lost count the amount of times Roughy jumped too early and he made a few errors with the ball in hand, too.

If Minson did what Roughead did today, he'd of been canned by everyone on here.

That's because he has played 102 games, and is still doing the same crap every week.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

That's because he has played 102 games, and is still doing the same crap every week.

Being younger doesn't make you better.

Roughead will be a good player, but at this stage - Minson is rightfully ahead of him in the pecking order.

[chef]

I'm not fussed either way as they both provide good back up for Huddo.

[stefoid]

Disagree.

His effort was good and he's certainly improving, but Minson gives us more, especially in the ruck contests. I lost count the amount of times Roughy jumped too early and he made a few errors with the ball in hand, too.

If Minson did what Roughead did today, he'd of been canned by everyone on here.

He wasnt jumping early, McIntosh just conceded the skies to him and decided to do a 'darce' and not jump for it at all because Roughead was out jumping him. A few times that resulted in very good taps to Roughie and goals were a direct result, and a few times MCIntosh did the same. Particualrly in the last quarter it was an interesting ruck duel with I think about 4 goals (2 each) in succession decided directly from the ruck contest.

Took 3 good contested marks too, one towering one in the middle after calling for it, marking it and a goal resulted from a coast to coast play.

[LostDoggy]

Hopefully we see Huddo have a rest next week and the future of the dogs, the Minno and Roughy ruck duo. Dont get me wrong, Hudsons been one our best this year but he needs a rest.

[LostDoggy]

Being younger doesn't make you better.

Roughead will be a good player, but at this stage - Minson is rightfully ahead of him in the pecking order.

:confused:

People won't payout on Roughy as much, simply because he has only played 5 games. Minson has played 102 games & keeps doing the same things every week, yesterday when he played for Williamstown was a prime example of Minson continually doing the same silly mistakes.

[jazzadogs]

I've really enjoyed the responses to this guys and gals, and I think the debate illustrates how hard this selection will be for the match committee. Roughy again showcased his mobility and skills, proved once more that he is more than capable at centre bounces and was not outmuscled (that I can remember).

His goalkicking let him down for the second week running, quite simple shots that he's been missing.

I think inevitably Will will return to the side, but as I said in the OP, I don't mind when that is because Roughy is doing a job that is currently on par with Will (at least).

[Bulldog Joe]

:confused:

People won't payout on Roughy as much, simply because he has only played 5 games. Minson has played 102 games & keeps doing the same things every week, yesterday when he played for Williamstown was a prime example of Minson continually doing the same silly mistakes.

I am sorry.

Did I miss something.

While I only saw limited parts of the Williamstown game, Minson was a dominant force in the ruck and also got involved in some link up work.

He had more than 40 hitouts according to the ABC commentary and some of those, in the last quarter, were more effective than some of the kicking that we routinely see in the game.

I would say that Minson again proved why he has better ruck credentials.

[comrade]

I'm as guilty as anyone for favouring youth over actual proven ability, but Minno is criminally under rated.

To be able to call on his physicality come finals will be very important. It's great we're able to pump games into Roughy whilst Will gets back to full fitness.

[hujsh]

I'm as guilty as anyone for favouring youth over actual proven ability, but Minno is criminally under rated.


I think it's a similar case to Gia where his weaknesses are obvious (the free kicks against being the standout) but his strengths can go unnoticed.

[BulldogBelle]

I am presuming that Roughead will improve slightly between now and the Grand Final. Then I think that he will be more valuable than Minson.

Not so much like his Hawthorn cousin Jarryd but more like Jarryd's teammate, Buddy.

[always right]

I'm a Minson fan...and he didn't do his recall chances any harm with his dominant display with Willi on the weekend (admittedly against inferior opposition).

There is however something a bit special about Roughy that suggests he could be a weapon come finals time. His ability to mark the ball at the peak of his reach is Nick Riewoldt-like, his ability below the knees for such a tall bloke is incredible, and he definitely has football smarts.

More than happy to see Will back in the side but Roughy has that X-factor you don't normally see in a ruckman at such a young age. What a great position to be in to have your second string ruckmen fighting for that last spot.

[Mantis]

I'm a Minson fan...and he didn't do his recall chances any harm with his dominant display with Willi on the weekend (admittedly against inferior opposition).

There is however something a bit special about Roughy that suggests he could be a weapon come finals time. His ability to mark the ball at the peak of his reach is Nick Riewoldt-like, his ability below the knees for such a tall bloke is incredible, and he definitely has football smarts.

More than happy to see Will back in the side but Roughy has that X-factor you don't normally see in a ruckman at such a young age. What a great position to be in to have your second string ruckmen fighting for that last spot.

It is also Kurt Tippett-like.

It's a common trait amognst ex-basketballers and both Tippett & Roughead fit this category.

[Go_Dogs]

It is also Kurt Tippett-like.

It's a common trait amognst ex-basketballers and both Tippett & Roughead fit this category.

Some genius G16 fella made the comparison a long while ago, and I still think it could be his best position. Seems like more and more people are now thinking similar, or at least acknowledging the merits.

[always right]

It is also Kurt Tippett-like.

It's a common trait amognst ex-basketballers and both Tippett & Roughead fit this category.

Yep...a more appropriate comparison. Gee he's exciting....seems to make good decisions as well.

[Mofra]

If Roughy could kick straight for goal I think the argument could be almost put to bed. Minson was kicking at 80% for set shots last year although he's down a bit this year.

[LostDoggy]

I am sorry.

Did I miss something.

While I only saw limited parts of the Williamstown game, Minson was a dominant force in the ruck and also got involved in some link up work.

He had more than 40 hitouts according to the ABC commentary and some of those, in the last quarter, were more effective than some of the kicking that we routinely see in the game.

I would say that Minson again proved why he has better ruck credentials.

Never doubted his rucking credentials, he is well above Roughead.

But the MC are looking for more from Minno when he is out there, i think Roughy gives us more around the ground. His mobility & football smarts are much better compared to Minson, which i think is more needed in our team with Huddo being the primary ruck.

In saying that though, i would probably bring Minson back in before the finals & get him ready for September.

[Stefcep]

I am presuming that Roughead will improve slightly between now and the Grand Final. Then I think that he will be more valuable than Minson.

Not so much like his Hawthorn cousin Jarryd but more like Jarryd's teammate, Buddy.

THIS.

Roughhead could be a super-star. What I like about him is his co-ordination, which would be good for a little man but is exceptional for a tall. And his positional awareness and decision making-very smart footballer.

His kicking will get better. I can see him play either as ruck or even a goal-square full forward.

[Mantis]

I was able to watch the players warm-up in the rooms on Sunday and was really surprised (in a good way) just how vocal Roughy was.

He was really 'geeing' the players up and for a young player I thought it was a great sign.

[Mofra]

I was able to watch the players warm-up in the rooms on Sunday and was really surprised (in a good way) just how vocal Roughy was.

He was really 'geeing' the players up and for a young player I thought it was a great sign.
A while ago it was mentioned as a team we had too many niceguys and quiet types, so a further good sign for the group.

[jazzadogs]

So I think everyone would agree this is settled? Minno just didn't do enough last night. Roughy wasn't great, but still pushed around the ground and had a dip.

Admittedly could be different with Huddo in the team, but I think Roughy has got the spot now.

[Rocco Jones]

I love Roughead and hate to bring up my part timer thing again but I think neither is the best option for us come finals time.

A lot of people don't agree with my part timer as a 2nd ruckman option but it seems like Malthouse and Thompson do. Until they limit interchange rotations, you play two out and out ruckmen at your own peril.

[GVGjr]

A lot of people don't agree with my part timer as a 2nd ruckman option but it seems like Malthouse and Thompson do. Until they limit interchange rotations, you play two out and out ruckmen at your own peril.

I think it has some merit against some sides and not others. It might even depend on the size of the ground.

I was thinking about this last night (during the thrashing) and wondered if we need to have someone like a Kepler Bradley, Jackson Trengove (Port) or even an Setanta O'hAilpin to support one ruckman and but still offering some value around the ground.
Jackson in particular is a player that I wanted at the Dogs because he can play in a number of positions and is more than decent in the ruck.

[Rocco Jones]

I think it has some merit against some sides and not others. It might even depend on the size of the ground.

I was thinking about this last night (during the thrashing) and wondered if we need to have someone like a Kepler Bradley, Jackson Trengove (Port) or even an Setanta O'hAilpin to support one ruckman and but still offering some value around the ground.
Jackson in particular is a player that I wanted at the Dogs because he can play in a number of positions and is more than decent in the ruck.

Yep. I think coaches are starting to appreciate the different in roles between a 1st ruck and a 2nd ruck, whereas most fans seemingly see them as the same thing (i.e. see the role as purely being ruck based).

I think that the only way you can played two out and out ruckmen is if one of them would go close to getting a game in another position.

[GVGjr]

I think that the only way you can played two out and out ruckmen is if one of them would go close to getting a game in another position.

Down the track I would expect Roughead to be a genuine option up forward and hopefully something like a Brad Ottens. Now if that doesn't happen I wonder what this trend of one ruckman with support from a part timer will mean to the option of having both Cordy and Roughead in the side together?

[Rocco Jones]

Down the track I would expect Roughead to be a genuine option up forward and hopefully something like a Brad Ottens. Now if that doesn't happen I wonder what this trend of one ruckman with support from a part timer will mean to the option of having both Cordy and Roughead in the side together?

If Cordy makes it, I am very confident that the combo will work well together. As you mention, Roughead looks like he will be a genuine option up forward but also we recruited Cordy as a ruck/forward.

Another point is the limit in interchange. If we go down to 80 changes or subs replacing 1 or 3 players on the bench I believe the sacrifice of playing another ruck option ahead of a runner will be reduced significantly.

[boydogs]

Another point is the limit in interchange. If we go down to 80 changes or subs replacing 1 or 3 players on the bench I believe the sacrifice of playing another ruck option ahead of a runner will be reduced significantly.

Disagree. You will need more fit players to run the game out without as many rests.

[ratsmac]

Minson's days are numbered. A decent tap ruckman and thats about it. Occasionally does show a bit around the ground, but in this day and age it simply doesn't cut it.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Another point is the limit in interchange. If we go down to 80 changes or subs replacing 1 or 3 players on the bench I believe the sacrifice of playing another ruck option ahead of a runner will be reduced significantly.

I think the opposite. If interchanges are reduced they become more valuable, too valuable to waste on a ruckman.

[chef]

I think the opposite. If interchanges are reduced they become more valuable, too valuable to waste on a ruckman.

Yep, they will need to go somewhere other than the bench for a rest. Hopefully the Roughead/Cordy combo will be a real strength for our club in future years.

[Mofra]

Yep. I think coaches are starting to appreciate the different in roles between a 1st ruck and a 2nd ruck, whereas most fans seemingly see them as the same thing (i.e. see the role as purely being ruck based).

I think that the only way you can played two out and out ruckmen is if one of them would go close to getting a game in another position.
What you've highlighted above is a major reason Roughy has largely overtaken Minson as a no 2 ruckman this year. Roughy can take a grab whilst forward, Minson seems to struggle overhead.
If his kicking improved, Roughy could mount a case as a ruckman/forward as opposed to simply a ruckman. As much as I doubted his ability to be ruck no 3 pre-season, I'd have him in the side ahead of Minson when Hudson comes back.

[stefoid]

What you've highlighted above is a major reason Roughy has largely overtaken Minson as a no 2 ruckman this year. Roughy can take a grab whilst forward, Minson seems to struggle overhead.
If his kicking improved, Roughy could mount a case as a ruckman/forward as opposed to simply a ruckman. As much as I doubted his ability to be ruck no 3 pre-season, I'd have him in the side ahead of Minson when Hudson comes back.

Up forward and around the ground. When is the last time you *wanted* a backman running out of defence to kick it 60m to one of our ruckman in a marking contest?