Flat track Bullies?

[The Coon Dog]

Mike Sheahan - H/S - 2 Aug

HARD to fault a 12-goal win. Impossible, really ... or is it?

The Western Bulldogs ended up crushing North Melbourne by 71 points at Etihad Stadium yesterday, yet it isn't all that it seems.

All the good teams do a job on North. In six encounters this year with the five teams that stand above the rest, North is winless and in deficit by a mammoth 406 points.

Article in full... (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/flat-track-bullies/story-e6frf9jf-1225899761321)

[Topdog]

Really pointless article. Must have been a very slow news day for Mike.

[Ozza]

I guess as Mike has written - it remains to be seen if we are flat track bullies - or up there with the absolute best. We'll get at least 3 opportunities to prove ourselves one way or another before the season is out.

[Flamethrower]

Sorry Mike, but flat track bullies are teams that have huge wins (or players that perform extremely well) against bottom sides, but in turn get thrashed by the elite sides.

A good example is the Fremantle Football Club, who beat the 16th placed Eagles by 75 points yesterday after losing to us by 82 points the week before.

While the Doggies are yet to beat one of the "premiership contenders" this year, it is not as if we have been blown away either. And we haven't even played the favourites yet.

[LostDoggy]

Mike Sheahan, you're an idiot.

[BulldogBelle]

One fickle bastard is Mike Sheahan.

[jazzadogs]

I guess as Mike has written - it remains to be seen if we are flat track bullies - or up there with the absolute best. We'll get at least 3 opportunities to prove ourselves one way or another before the season is out.
I agree with this Ozza. I don't agree with the entirety of Mike's article, but we haven't proven ourselves against the top teams yet. Sure, we've had big impressive wins, but that doesn't prove that we are legitimate contenders.

I think Mike would have written the article to show to those who didn't watch the game that it really wasn't as good as it sounds. Sure we won by 71, but I thought North were a better team in the first half, we just kicked straighter.

It only became a dominant performance in the last quarter, and if we played the way we did in the first half any other premiership contender would have most likely destroyed us.

[Rocco Jones]

I think there is a half truth in the 'flat track bullies' call.

We certainly do crush the poorer sides who give us the freedom to play our own style of game.

I guess the term would also imply not really competing/bringing your A game up against the elite sides. We are obviously competitive against these sides but equally as obvious in our mental fragility late in these games when they are there to be won. So for about 85% of these games we look genuine contenders but in the last 15% or so we come across as flat track bullies.

[Bulldog Revolution]

One fickle bastard is Mike Sheahan.

I would have described it as - when in doubt fall back on well run cliches and stereotypes, but I dont mind that there is scepticism in the footy public about us, as long as the umpires understand we are good

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think there is a half truth in the 'flat track bullies' call.

We certainly do crush the poorer sides who give us the freedom to play our own style of game.

I guess the term would also imply not really competing/bringing your A game up against the elite sides. We are obviously competitive against these sides but equally as obvious in our mental fragility late in these games when they are there to be won. So for about 85% of these games we look genuine contenders but in the last 15% or so we come across as flat track bullies.

Agree with this.

Still, we should be judged on our performance in the finals and not one game in round 20 against Geelong. I think we'll likely drop one game between now and week 1 of the finals, which may not be a bad thing as long as Freo drop one too. It's in this finals series that will determine whether or not we are flat track bullies.

[bornadog]

I think there is a half truth in the 'flat track bullies' call.

We certainly do crush the poorer sides who give us the freedom to play our own style of game.

I guess the term would also imply not really competing/bringing your A game up against the elite sides. We are obviously competitive against these sides but equally as obvious in our mental fragility late in these games when they are there to be won. So for about 85% of these games we look genuine contenders but in the last 15% or so we come across as flat track bullies.

Yeah, 82 point demolition of the equal 4th placed Freo is proof:rolleyes:

[Sockeye Salmon]

Maybe we just don't smash the better sides because they're actually pretty good?

It's not like smashing sides below us is a bad thing.

[Rocco Jones]

Yeah, 82 point demolition of the equal 4th placed Freo is proof:rolleyes:

I don't consider Freo in Melbourne anywhere near elite, fair play to you if you think that is roll eye inducing. FWIW I definitely don't see us as flat track bullies. I think we are an elite side who turns into a train wreck late in close games against other elite/high quality sides.

[Rocco Jones]

Maybe we just don't smash the better sides because they're actually pretty good?

It's not like smashing sides below us is a bad thing.

Totally.

Also, despite our poor win/loss against the top sides we are as consistently in the game late as it gets. Ten minutes of non train wreck footy off greatness.

[Remi Moses]

Fair point made my Sheehan,we need a big scalp.Flat track bullies is a silly headline,Mike seems to swing in the breeze these days!

[The Pie Man]

He jumped right off us after the Hawthorn loss, which was &*%$ stupid.

Healy (who I can't stand really TBPH) had to remind him we only lost by 3 points, and Sheahan fires back with 'yeah but it wasn't a win was it?'

Hawthorn lost to Geelong round 17 in 2008 by 11 points after Hodge turned it over switching play in the middle late on - cracking game. I spose that result proved they couldn't win the flag

They then had the nerve to lose to Richmond a few weeks later, by nearly 5 goals...surely they're gone then.

Meh

[Rocco Jones]

Hearing Sheahan On The Couch now, his contested disposal knock on the Dogs is/was a joke. You can bag us for a few things this year but not our ability to win a contested ball. If Mike had a clue he would just go with our mental fragility late in the big ones.

[Stefcep]

He jumped right off us after the Hawthorn loss, which was &*%$ stupid.

Healy (who I can't stand really TBPH) had to remind him we only lost by 3 points, and Sheahan fires back with 'yeah but it wasn't a win was it?'

Hawthorn lost to Geelong round 17 in 2008 by 11 points after Hodge turned it over switching play in the middle late on - cracking game. I spose that result proved they couldn't win the flag

They then had the nerve to lose to Richmond a few weeks later, by nearly 5 goals...surely they're gone then.

Meh

I sort of get what he meant by the 3 points loss to Hawthorn: premiers find ways to win those close ones, somehow.

Having said that, it IS just psychological and there often is tipping point when the challenger eventually becomes the champion, and it happens in many sports eg McEnroe eventually beating Borg at Wimbledon. I think we are due to beat both Geelong and St Kilda in the finals this year. We have the list, we just need the belief.

[Topdog]

I sort of get what he meant by the 3 points loss to Hawthorn: premiers find ways to win those close ones, somehow.

One of the greatest myths going around in any sport. Geelong couldn't find a way to beat the Saints last year in the middle of the year, does that mean they aren't a great side.

When 2 elite teams play each other 1 must lose*

* In 99.5% of the games.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I sort of get what he meant by the 3 points loss to Hawthorn: premiers find ways to win those close ones, somehow.


It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't win because they are somehow special, they are just labelled special because they won. The reality is they won because they were better than the other mob.

I'm with Topdog. All this "we're not mentally tough enough" is bollocks.

Two teams play, one team wins. It doesn't mean one is mentally tougher, it just means one was better. Sometimes it might come down to someone choosing the right option at the right time, maybe it means one was a even bit luckier.


Even if someone blows it, it's not necessarily mental weakness, players stuff up every game, but if your timing is lousy and you make a mistake at the wrong time the calls of "choker" or "mentally weak" ring out. No, he's just done the same thing that a dozen other blokes have done in this match, his mistake just came at the end.

[LostDoggy]

I think it's very simple . We had a poor first half to the year, which is when we happened to
meet Collingwood twice. We also lost to Brisbane and Essendon in this period, and were very lucky against Melbourne also. And don't even get me started on the St Kilda game, which was one of the most excruciating games I have ever watched, only to see us throw it away in the last 5 minutes.

We simply weren't playing well, but are now heading in the right direction, and i'm looking forward to our game against Geelong, and then the finals, with a great deal of anticipation. I get the feeling the boys don't fear anyone this year, and rightly so.

[Stefcep]

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't win because they are somehow special, they are just labelled special because they won. The reality is they won because they were better than the other mob.

I'm with Topdog. All this "we're not mentally tough enough" is bollocks.

Two teams play, one team wins. It doesn't mean one is mentally tougher, it just means one was better. Sometimes it might come down to someone choosing the right option at the right time, maybe it means one was a even bit luckier.


Even if someone blows it, it's not necessarily mental weakness, players stuff up every game, but if your timing is lousy and you make a mistake at the wrong time the calls of "choker" or "mentally weak" ring out. No, he's just done the same thing that a dozen other blokes have done in this match, his mistake just came at the end.

But that's the point isn't it? Once or twice, thats bad luck. BUT we consistently have lost the close ones against the Saints and Cats. If you're matched up for 119 minutes and you CONSISTENTLY get over the line by NOT making THAT mistake AT the wrong time, where does that come from, and why can some do it consistently and others can't?

Having said that, I think this team is no longer lacking self belief. I sense a determination from the senior players especially that their time is NOW.

I don't fear Collingwood, I think they're a team of plodders that the best coach in the league has been able to get to play at their peak as a unit. We've beaten ourselves in our last two matches against them.

St Kilda has gone backwards this season.

Geelong. Yep they're the team to beat. But they're not at their peak either.

[LostDoggy]

Having said that, I think this team is no longer lacking self belief. I sense a determination from the senior players especially that their time is NOW.

I don't fear Collingwood, I think they're a team of plodders that the best coach in the league has been able to get to play at their peak as a unit. We've beaten ourselves in our last two matches against them.

St Kilda has gone backwards this season.

Geelong. Yep they're the team to beat. But they're not at their peak either.[/QUOTE]

Yes i can agree with most of what you say, BUT in the finals will we be able to come from behind if the case and win?
Previous comments posted over the year have asked who can stand up and grab the game and make it a winner. Hope the self belief can arouse this now.

GO Dogs.....................

[LostDoggy]

bump.

couple of points:
* probably as good a time as any to get swamped now (not that there is ever a good time to lose by 100 points). with KB picking us over the Cats etc. we were starting to get some press which we always seem to struggle with. Now we've been written off completely, so the boys can forget the expectation and just play.
* worst time possible to have played the Cats after they had just put in THEIR worst performance of the season to lose to Collingwood (plus the flu, but we'll just leave the excuses in the cupboard). We'll probably destroy Sydney next week after this embarassment. If we don't then we're goneski.

Nothing more to say, have to just move on after a game like that.