Pitiful

[Remi Moses]

That would be the most insipid spineless effort seen for quite a while!
I don't want to hear any flu excuses as that effort was totally f***** unacceptable!

[Topdog]

I'd love to be able to tell you to calm down and that you are over reacting in the heady of the moment but I'd be wrong.

[LostDoggy]

Absolutely pathetic.

Deja vu! The more things change, the more they stay the same.

There's just something in the waters at Footscray - we're always there, or there abouts, not too bad, but not that great. Never able to be the best.

[Remi Moses]

I'll say it once and I'll say it again
Pretenders.

[chef]

I'll say it once and I'll say it again
Pretenders.

If this was our best 22 playing as well as it could I would agree, but it's not.

[vho]

If this was our best 22 playing as well as it could I would agree, but it's not.

Would not have made an ounce of difference.

[Ghost Dog]

Would not have made an ounce of difference.

Boy, has this not been the year of unpredictable performances?
I think even Geelong will be surprised at how much they beat us by.
Not sure if I can disagree with the above.

[Rance Fan]

Pitful - Yes
Moving forward - Yes
One to forget, maybe its a kick in the butt we need. Finals a whole new ballgame.
Not getting my hopes up though!

[DOG GOD]

Oh well...on to next week i say.

[LostDoggy]

Now we find out the true character of the players. They were pathetic tonite, but how will they respond next week, the week after, and into the finals?

Will they stand up and be counted, or will they slink away?

[Jasper]

10 just a put a graphic up of our performance against the other top 4 teams in the last few years.

Won 2
Lost 10

says it all really. Just not quite up to it.

Hopefully we get lucky.

Can't wait for the calls to bring back Mitch Hahn who will win it for us...can't wait for the responses..at least he tries, gives us one percenters, etc.

My view is that:

a - we are top heavy, and lack run
b - our mids aren't clean under pressure
c - we are carrying injured underdone players like Ward and Higgins who continue to let us down.

[LostDoggy]

This is what I want to see: the coach, the players, and the president come out and apologise to the supporters for what was served up tonite. I want them to say "tonite we draw a line in the sand, tonite we say 'no more, no longer will we serve up this'".

[azabob]

This is what I want to see: the coach, the players, and the president come out and apologise to the supporters for what was served up tonite. I want them to say "tonite we draw a line in the sand, tonite we say 'no more, no longer will we serve up this'".

Tonight.
The only person I want to hear from is Eade at his press conference. After that no more media, no more talk only actions on the field. Talk is cheap and we have done enough talking for over 55 years.

[LostDoggy]

a - we are top heavy, and lack run
b - our mids aren't clean under pressure
c - we are carrying injured underdone players like Ward and Higgins who continue to let us down.


Agree kelvinator, when i saw that Geelong were looking for speed by adding wojinski, i looked over our side and thought that we did lack some foot speed.
Hudson was a huge loss, and I dont think his value is appreciated.
I couldnt believe how often Geelong had clean possession from the centre bounces.
I felt that we didnt apply enough pressure all over the field and once they got away from us they were the ones doing all the pressuring.
To be honest, I just looking for a good competitive effort as I knew Geelong would be hurt after last week, but losing like that is just plain embarrasing.
On the other hand, it may be that we are lulling them into a false sense of security :rolleyes:

[lemmon]

Now we find out the true character of the players. They were pathetic tonite, but how will they respond next week, the week after, and into the finals?

Will they stand up and be counted, or will they slink away?

Yeah nah, tonight was the time to stand up and be counted. When the pressure came on in the second quarter I learnt all I needed to about this side, no one stood up and battled against the tide. Its all good to come out next week and have a win against a lesser side but when the time came to stand firm we fell like a pack of cards.

[GVGjr]

My view is that:

a - we are top heavy, and lack run
b - our mids aren't clean under pressure
c - we are carrying injured underdone players like Ward and Higgins who continue to let us down.

Well summed up. We need to change the balance of the side and add a couple of runners but the main thing we need to address is to minimise the turnovers under pressure.

[SonofScray]

I don't want to hear anything, I want to SEE us win a flag.

Its looking unlikely given our performances against the top sides recently but we're there with a punchers chance still and as a fan all you can do is suck it up and hope for the best. This was a flogging I expected to be honest. We fall away badly where the effort and spread of contributors is really thin and given the news from the week it was on the cards IMO.

We beat Geelong last season and it made SFA difference in the finals, it simply doesn't count for anything. It is what happens when you don't get that next game to redeem yourselves that matters.

I'd like to see us address some of the issues raised here though - we need to give someone the role of a gut running, long kicking wing man. We simply have no one contributing to this aspect of the game in a way that Eagleton has done in the past. Such a lack of players prepared to get on their bike is hurting.

The other thing is how poor we are at hustling the footy when it is contested in our own F50, if we don't have a clean possession good teams swallow it up and send it back with interest. Not good enough.

[The Underdog]

Well summed up. We need to change the balance of the side and add a couple of runners but the main thing we need to address is to minimise the turnovers under pressure.

We just can't continue to win the ball then turn the ball over going forward like we have against good sides. It's just deplorable and it happen's all the time.

[Mofra]

Geelong have not lost to a side that they can match for legspeed.
My guess on 2 quickest players (Grant & Harbrow) and our best burst/quickest midfielder (Cooeny) were out.
We had the flu.

I am simply not willing to write our season off yet.

[G-Mo77]

10 just a put a graphic up of our performance against the other top 4 teams in the last few years.

Won 2
Lost 10

says it all really. Just not quite up to it.


I mentioned the same thing after the loss to Hawthorn.

A 100 point drubbing from the hands of a contender 2 weeks before the finals. How and the hell do we come back from that? The physiological damage this loss will have is huge. It will be in the back of the players mid for quite some time. 2010 is not our year.

[Mofra]

Tonight wasn't a total bust. We clearly solved the Minson vs Roughead dilemma.
Sorry Minno but you're a first ruck or a VFL ruck, nothing in between.

[Doggy]

Always fuc#$%g next year.

[Dry Rot]

Tonight wasn't a total bust. We clearly solved the Minson vs Roughead dilemma.
.

How did each go tonight?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm struggling to remember the last time we lost by 100 points? Has to be several years ago

I hope it's a long long time before I see another.

[Doc26]

Tonight wasn't a total bust. We clearly solved the Minson vs Roughead dilemma.
Sorry Minno but you're a first ruck or a VFL ruck, nothing in between.


How did each go tonight?

Both failed to make a positive contribution tonight. In Hudson, Out Minson on tonight's performance. Was hard to find many contributors across the 4 quarters. I'd say Cross, Morris, Gia and Murph and Tom at a stretch. Liam fought it out and Wood did a fair job holding StevieJ before doing his hamstring.

[Remi Moses]

I'm struggling to remember the last time we lost by 100 points? Has to be several years ago

I hope it's a long long time before I see another.

1996 was the last time,I've calmed down slightly quite simply the club will be judged on the first week of the finals.Massive character test now

[G-Mo77]

Massive character test now

That's what it was when we played Collingwood the second time around as well as when we played against the Hawks and it was again tonight.

When it's time to step up our players can't seem to do it.

[Remi Moses]

That's what it was when we played Collingwood the second time around as well as when we played against the Hawks and it was again tonight.

When it's time to step up our players can't seem to do it.

Good call (hate to go all footy confidential on you)
I'm living in hope I fear

[The Bulldogs Bite]

That's what it was when we played Collingwood the second time around as well as when we played against the Hawks and it was again tonight.

When it's time to step up our players can't seem to do it.

Yep and tonight only makes everything worse. Mentally - we're screwed IMO.

If we conceed a 4 goal lead to Collingwood, St. Kilda or Geelong in the finals - we're likely to crumble badly.

Port Adelaide were never the same after the '07 Grand Final. I can see us suffering from the same kind of fate, particularly as we couldn't beat the top sides prior to tonight's game.

A 100 point loss two weeks out from the finals with one of our few chances to win a Premiership is numbing.

[Grantysghost]

Worst loss as Western Bulldogs - long way back from here, Eade has to get some heat for this now surely how can Ablett be left alone at so many stoppages!? Cross and Boyd cant be in the same midfield against the better sides the balance is out. Choose one or the other. In 30 years i haven't seen a 13 goal to 0 run against, real lack of leadership when the heat is on, nobody stands up consistently.
Credit to Gia great effort.

[bornadog]

Well, I am dispointed in the loss, to say the least, however, I am not worried either.

Clearly with the amount of players not able to train during the week, Lake obviously also feeling the effects of a virus (he was not himself tonight), Higgins and Ward coming back from injury, Cooney, Harbrow, Grant and Hudson to all come back, we just have to forget tonight.

Except for tonight, we have been super competitive this year and at our best we can match it with anyone. We are entrenched in the top four and I am looking forward to playing Collingwood in the first final.

[Mantis]

Clearly with the amount of players not able to train during the week, Lake obviously also feeling the effects of a virus (he was not himself tonight), Higgins and Ward coming back from injury, Cooney, Harbrow, Grant and Hudson to all come back, we just have to forget tonight.

Except for tonight, we have been super competitive this year and at our best we can match it with anyone. We are bascically entrenched in the top four and I am looking forward to playing Collingwood in the first final.

Morris & Murphy were amongst the group that didn't train and were in our best couple of players.

[LostDoggy]

Pitful - Yes
Moving forward - Yes
One to forget, maybe its a kick in the butt we need. Finals a whole new ballgame.
Not getting my hopes up though!

Get f#$%*&g real!!!!!!!

[lemmon]

I cant see us coming back from tonight, this group has displayed on numerous occasions a lack of mental toughness and fortitude, it may be harsh but at to this point is fair. We simply have too many players with too many large flaws which over time have become insecurities, whether it be Crossy's unwillingness to kick, Eagleton in a contested situation, Higgins fading out of games, Johnson's age, Hargrave's disposal under pressure... I could go on forever. Of the team tonight, I would say 15+ have exposable flaws to their game, the Geelong team tonight would have less then 5, Collingwood would have fewer.
It's taken me a while but over the course of the year I have realised that we are the 'best of the rest' as hard as it is too admit and I would be happier then anyone to be proven wrong.

[KT31]

Always fuc#$%g next year.

What a load of front running supportors.
Bet most would you would pull a sickie if you had the flu.
September will decide.
If we win trhe flag you lot would say I told you so.
We have been no better than 3rd or 4th best this year and have a group of great kids.
Can't happen without faith !!!

[Remi Moses]

What a load of front running supportors.
Bet most would you would pull a sickie if you had the flu.
September will decide.
If we win trhe flag you lot would say I told you so.
We have been no better than 3rd or 4th best this year and have a group of great kids.
Can't happen without faith !!!

Oh please front runner supporters. Give us a spell probably the most loyal longest suffering fans! Stop looking through Bulldog goggles,most of us here are just stating the bleeding obvious. The ball is well and truly in the players court not the long suffering supporters:rolleyes:

[MrMahatma]

We just lost by 100 points. Virus or not, I think supporters have a right to vent a little.

Wait until Tues and we'll all be lookjng forward - but not yet.

[chef]

Geelong have not lost to a side that they can match for legspeed.
My guess on 2 quickest players (Grant & Harbrow) and our best burst/quickest midfielder (Cooeny) were out.
We had the flu.

I am simply not willing to write our season off yet.

Me neither.

After the week we had(minimal training), missing some key players, playing others who were clearly underdone and up against a great team with a point to prove I'm going to try and forget this ever happened and just hope that stinking virus a gone by the time the finals start.

[Jasper]

Me neither.

After the week we had(minimal training), missing some key players, playing others who were clearly underdone and up against a great team with a point to prove I'm going to try and forget this ever happened and just hope that stinking virus a gone by the time the finals start.

Bout all we can do...the script unfolding before is:

Two face saving wins against Syd and Ess
1st Final - honourable loss
2nd Final - face saving win
Prelim - Honourable loss

Hope the the team can break the pattern.

[LostDoggy]

Well, I am dispointed in the loss, to say the least, however, I am not worried either.

I am.

I'd like to know how many premiers had a loss of 100pts during the year?

Also it seems that to win a premiership you need
1. A good side with Nil injuries (Higgins, Wood, Hahn etc) and nil reports (Picken)
2. Luck
3. Form
4. Confidence

Confidence will be shot after last night, even if the blow away Syd & Ess, they will still be doubting them self against top sides.

But as I said in another topic, the Liam Picken moment kills me just as much as the final result. Allong with Woods injury, they are the type of people you need in the finals. The depth guys doing the little things, eg the Wood beating Tippet thing last week in Adelaide.

[Ghost Dog]

I am.

I'd like to know how many premiers had a loss of 100pts during the year?

Also it seems that to win a premiership you need
1. A good side with Nil injuries (Higgins, Wood, Hahn etc) and nil reports (Picken)
2. Luck
3. Form
4. Confidence

Confidence will be shot after last night, even if the blow away Syd & Ess, they will still be doubting them self against top sides.

But as I said in another topic, the Liam Picken moment kills me just as much as the final result. Allong with Woods injury, they are the type of people you need in the finals. The depth guys doing the little things, eg the Wood beating Tippet thing last week in Adelaide.

Ok. I can't disagree with this - good post. Beating top four sides the issue. And our team is quite different from last season. A better team! Stoopid virus.
Ah well. Let the story play itself out and cheer on. Not much else to do. Get well soon boys.

[SlimPickens]

The importance of Ben Hudson, showed up more then ever before last night. Our inability to win a centre clearance was the real worry for me. The result just shows how you can't be off by a few %, we were absolutely destroyed last night. However i prefer to look at the positive as really negativity is going to get you know where.

Thought L.Jones impressed again last night and at some point seemed to be our main target over Bazza. This kid is going to be a player, and at the moment i think he should be in our 22 week one of the finals. The injuries to Wood hurts(the effort against S.Johnson shows the importance of this bloke) . I think the Higgins injury may be a blessing in disguise, we need to stop making exuses for him. His performances over a number of week have been ordinary and last night once again he butchered the ball.

Really disappointed this morning but still think we have a big part to play in September.

[DOG GOD]

Just gotta hope the top 3 teams come down with the virus over the next 3 weeks :)

The loss of Wood early, Higgins and Ward nowhere near match fit and the fact we didnt have our best ruckman certainly hurt. Yes we had the virus (although lake played like he had the plague), but u cant expect to match it with geelong when the whole team can pretty much do as they please. In an earlier thread i mentioned that eade had to tag Enright...didnt see it happen, but it BETTER happen come sept. Hopefully eade didnt want to show all his cards on the table, but thats fine unless the cards ur showing are all jokers!!

[bornadog]

Just gotta hope the top 3 teams come down with the virus over the next 3 weeks :)



My mate said last night, we should try and pass the virus on to Geelong.:D I said how, he said give them a kiss:D

[DOG GOD]

My mate said last night, we should try and pass the virus on to Geelong.:D I said how, he said give them a kiss:D

Classic :)

[Doggy]

What a load of front running supportors.
Bet most would you would pull a sickie if you had the flu.
September will decide.
If we win trhe flag you lot would say I told you so.
We have been no better than 3rd or 4th best this year and have a group of great kids.
Can't happen without faith !!!

Hence the phrase always next year.;)

[always right]

Amidst the carnage I learned something positive about a few blokes last night;

1. Under enormous pressure Williams stood up.
2. Admired Murphy's efforts to spark the team
3. Ward butchered it but he was desparate through to the end. Keep him.
4. A bit like Williams, Everitt showed resilience under pressure
5. Morrs put a lie to the impact of the virus. Look up honesty in the dictionary and you'll find a picture of this bloke
6. Haven't seen Jones' much vaunted marking ability but he looks a player

[LostDoggy]

I mentioned the same thing after the loss to Hawthorn.

A 100 point drubbing from the hands of a contender 2 weeks before the finals. How and the hell do we come back from that? The physiological damage this loss will have is huge. It will be in the back of the players mid for quite some time. 2010 is not our year.

I agree - this is another season lost. There is no coming back from a 101 point loss 3 weeks before finals.

[always right]

I agree - this is another season lost. There is no coming back from a 101 point loss 3 weeks before finals.

Let's just hope the players don't think the same. This week's game against Sydney is a "statement" game. Are we going to rollover for another season or turn this around. Seems impossible...or is it?

[LostDoggy]

My mate said last night, we should try and pass the virus on to Geelong.:D I said how, he said give them a kiss:D

The cats are safe from the virus, most of them didn't have a dogs player near them all night!

[LostDoggy]

Worst game I have seen us play for a bloody long time.
No intensity, no pressure and some of the worst decision making ever!

Stop playing injured players - Higgins, Ward & Johnson (can bloody run)
Time for Mitch Hahn to get back in for some hard fwd line pressure and tackling

Outs: Anyone who is injured, Eagleton (down hill skier) Minson didn't throw his weight around he should of owned the ruck last night!! Liam Jones not ready yet son - hit the gym and put on 7 - 10kgs

Missing Harbrow's run and rebound... Fwds continually getting sucked up the ground - when we have the ball there is no one to kick too...


Intensity & Purpose - at least show it for longer than 10mins...

[LostDoggy]

I'll say it once and I'll say it again
Pretenders.

Wow Remi, We are in the four because we deserve to be. The writing was on the wall all week and we were primed for belting Im not taking any notice of last night at all. We now have 3 weeks to prepare for Collingwood a luxury we didnt have last year and I have complete faith in our best 22 to take it right up to them. We also have the luxury of playing the pies with a free life. Agreed 100 points was terrible but our cue was in the rack very early on and if the cats didnt belt us I'd have lost respect for them. We can beat the cats I have no doubt and they will meet a completely different side next time. All we have to do is go to work and take all the crap we will get with a little smirk on our faces with the knowledge that we no that wasnt our side and we get first crack at the pies after they have played the Hawks. I would much rather play the Pies with a free life than have to beat them in a Prelim. Chin up Remi we had half a side we will get our chance and I cant wait for 3 weeks time! ;)

[The Pie Man]

Reading WOOF this morning, I've got some serious de ja vu... losing to West Coast last year at Etihad.

Went on a nice little run after that (then handed Geelong an easy ride to their prelim)

Same as last year - the group has an opportunity, with their arses stinging from the many slippers being applied, both internal & external. There maybe some parts of our game that we've identified for improvement that may not come, but we'll still likely stumble into fourth and get a crack at Collingwood.

Lose that (I reckon Collingwood will be due, but that's another discussion) and I fear we're a massive chance for straight sets - but again, even in that instance they'll at least have the opportunity to avoid it.

[mjp]

Time for Mitch Hahn to get back in for some hard fwd line pressure and tackling


You do know he is averaging less tackles per game this year than Nathan Eagleton right?

Vent all you like, but let's base our player assessments on 2010 not 2006.

[Ghost Dog]

Im not taking any notice of last night at all.

Yes, me too but for different reasons. If I think about it at all it makes me queasy...feverish..... I think I have a virus.... It's called the Whitten oval influenza! Known to be highly prevalent among Bulldog supporters at this time of the year.


We can beat the cats I have no doubt and they will meet a completely different side next time.

Three or four players into a 22 man side is still not going to change the result by more than 40 or 50 points. Their consistency is a cut above ours: 4 quarter effort.

That was a 100 point loss. Simply put, teams that are ready for the finals do not get beaten like that at this stage of the year. Massive ground to make up. Hit the track hard this week lads. COME ON BULLDOGS.

[bornadog]

Wow Remi, We are in the four because we deserve to be. The writing was on the wall all week and we were primed for belting Im not taking any notice of last night at all. We now have 3 weeks to prepare for Collingwood a luxury we didnt have last year and I have complete faith in our best 22 to take it right up to them. We also have the luxury of playing the pies with a free life. Agreed 100 points was terrible but our cue was in the rack very early on and if the cats didnt belt us I'd have lost respect for them. We can beat the cats I have no doubt and they will meet a completely different side next time. All we have to do is go to work and take all the crap we will get with a little smirk on our faces with the knowledge that we no that wasnt our side and we get first crack at the pies after they have played the Hawks. I would much rather play the Pies with a free life than have to beat them in a Prelim. Chin up Remi we had half a side we will get our chance and I cant wait for 3 weeks time! ;)

The Hawks will really butter up Collingwood in round 22. This could be a crucial match for Hawthorn and they will go in hard. Whether Collingwood ease up abit in that game and rest soem players is another matter.

[Jasper]

You do know he is averaging less tackles per game this year than Nathan Eagleton right?

Vent all you like, but let's base our player assessments on 2010 not 2006.

:D A damming stat indeed. The only thing Mitch could catch these days is a cold...or a flu

[LostDoggy]

Playing devils advocate here, to those people saying we'll now meet Collingwood in the first week of the finals - if we lose the next two rounds, and Freo win their two, we'll end up 5th.

Not saying it'll happen, stranger things have happened.

I'll be thinking about the first week of the finals, once we get past Sydney and Essendon.

[bornadog]

Playing devils advocate here, to those people saying we'll now meet Collingwood in the first week of the finals - if we lose the next two rounds, and Freo win their two, we'll end up 5th.

Not saying it'll happen, stranger things have happened.

I'll be thinking about the first week of the finals, once we get past Sydney and Essendon.

and Freo get past the Hawks in Tassie and Carlton at home

[The Pie Man]

^^

All we need to do is win one of our remaining two to finish 4th - and if Freo lose to Hawthorn next week (highly likely) we can lose both and stay 4th.

Don't think we'll lose both anyway, but with the Swans winning yesterday, it's 98% sealed 4th for us.

I didn't see that coming 2 months ago, so that's definitely positive.

[Grantysghost]

Tackling is an issue for us - we are the worst in the league at it. Something to work on!

We average 61 - 16th
Pies are at 72 - 1st

The way the cats broke through so easily last night, i reckon its a problem that i havent heard mentioned alot.

[Remi Moses]

Wow Remi, We are in the four because we deserve to be. The writing was on the wall all week and we were primed for belting Im not taking any notice of last night at all. We now have 3 weeks to prepare for Collingwood a luxury we didnt have last year and I have complete faith in our best 22 to take it right up to them. We also have the luxury of playing the pies with a free life. Agreed 100 points was terrible but our cue was in the rack very early on and if the cats didnt belt us I'd have lost respect for them. We can beat the cats I have no doubt and they will meet a completely different side next time. All we have to do is go to work and take all the crap we will get with a little smirk on our faces with the knowledge that we no that wasnt our side and we get first crack at the pies after they have played the Hawks. I would much rather play the Pies with a free life than have to beat them in a Prelim. Chin up Remi we had half a side we will get our chance and I cant wait for 3 weeks time! ;)

It worries me that we haven't stood up to the ultimate test which is Geelong.I wouldn't have been to perturbed if we had got beaten last night but it was how we got beaten! The acid test will be how we respond and the biggest test will be how we respond in the first final. Just hope and pray they stick it up the scribes in particular that A-grade flog David King

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This week's game against Sydney is a "statement" game. Are we going to rollover for another season or turn this around. Seems impossible...or is it?

Disagree.

I'd almost put my house on beating Sydney this week. The 'statement' has to be made against quality sides. Quite clearly, we simply aren't good enough to do it.

Every time we lose to Geelong, St. Kilda, Collingwood or Hawthorn - the same thing is said. That how we 'respond' will be the most important aspect of the lesson. Inevitably - we win the next couple of games until we face one of them again. We head to the game thinking we've improved from the last time we met, but again - we lose.

I've heard people talk about our character (including Eade) but where is it when we actually need it against the top sides? When we were getting belted in the second quarter last night, did any player decide to repel Geelong's onslaught? No. We rolled over.

[Mantis]

Disagree.

I'd almost put my house on beating Sydney this week. The 'statement' has to be made against quality sides. Quite clearly, we simply aren't good enough to do it.

Every time we lose to Geelong, St. Kilda, Collingwood or Hawthorn - the same thing is said. That how we 'respond' will be the most important aspect of the lesson. Inevitably - we win the next couple of games until we face one of them again. We head to the game thinking we've improved from the last time we met, but again - we lose.

I've heard people talk about our character (including Eade) but where is it when we actually need it against the top sides? When we were getting belted in the second quarter last night, did any player decide to repel Geelong's onslaught? No. We rolled over.

Agree.

Our only statement game is the QF (assuming we finish 4th).

[Scorlibo]

You do know he is averaging less tackles per game this year than Nathan Eagleton right?

Vent all you like, but let's base our player assessments on 2010 not 2006.

Why is everyone so unashamedly biased against Hahn??? He has averaged 2.8 tackles this year, his career average is 2.6, he has averaged career highs in almost every other indicator, so either you've never liked him, or shut the hell up.

[chef]

Reading WOOF this morning, I've got some serious de ja vu... losing to West Coast last year at Etihad.

Went on a nice little run after that (then handed Geelong an easy ride to their prelim)

Same as last year - the group has an opportunity, with their arses stinging from the many slippers being applied, both internal & external. There maybe some parts of our game that we've identified for improvement that may not come, but we'll still likely stumble into fourth and get a crack at Collingwood.

Lose that (I reckon Collingwood will be due, but that's another discussion) and I fear we're a massive chance for straight sets - but again, even in that instance they'll at least have the opportunity to avoid it.

Hopefully the Hawks knock them around a bit in the last round.

[The Pie Man]

Hopefully the Hawks knock them around a bit in the last round.

And that Essendon can run us into form - they look like they just want the season to end.

Collingwood look very good, no question, but they're not unbeatable....and despite last night's belting, we're capable of knocking them off

[LostDoggy]

Last night was so bad, I had an Essendon supporter just say to me: "Yeah, I watched the game. I felt sorry for you guys".


:|

[bornadog]

Tackling is an issue for us - we are the worst in the league at it. Something to work on!

We average 61 - 16th
Pies are at 72 - 1st

The way the cats broke through so easily last night, i reckon its a problem that i havent heard mentioned alot.

Tackling is overated. When you have the ball more times than your opponent then you can't tackle them they have to tackle you. Geelong is rated number one for most disposals per game and 13th in tackles, we are number 2 in Disposals and 16th in average tackles per game.

[LostDoggy]

It worries me that we haven't stood up to the ultimate test which is Geelong.I wouldn't have been to perturbed if we had got beaten last night but it was how we got beaten! The acid test will be how we respond and the biggest test will be how we respond in the first final. Just hope and pray they stick it up the scribes in particular that A-grade flog David King

Yep agree it worries me to but we are always right there with them and just havnt taken our chances yet. You need everything to go right to beat Geelong, not only do you need to be organised but your preperation needs to be just about perfect and we can only imagine what the club went through last week. So we will step back and Reload and dont be surprised if we lose to Sydney they will be at their best and at the SCG mighty hard to beat with the build up they will have this week. We are mighty lucky we can afford to lose so we must use it to prepare for the Pies. :)

[Mantis]

Tackling is overated. When you have the ball more times than your opponent then you can't tackle them they have to tackle you. Geelong is rated number one for most disposals per game and 13th in tackles, we are number 2 in Disposals and 16th in average tackles per game.

In games like last night when you can't get your hands on the ball tackling is very important.

Our ability to tackle well was a key focus for last nights clash and we failed miserably.

[LostDoggy]

Hopefully the Hawks knock them around a bit in the last round.

No need to hope Chef the Hawks are good for one thing this year and thats to soften up the Pies for us. You can beat the Hawks no problem but they hit you hard and there isnt a team in the comp who plays at their best the following week. If we can get through the next two weeks unscathed and are prepared and organised we can knock the Pies off. :)

[bornadog]

In games like last night when you can't get your hands on the ball tackling is very important.

Our ability to tackle well was a key focus for last nights clash and we failed miserably.

Thats right when you can't get your hands on the ball. Geelong who had the ball more than us had no need to tackle and were well down on their own average.

My statements are in answer to Grantysghost where he said, tackling is an issue for us. I agree it was last night, but not the rest of the season.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

A most disappointing game indeed. The result was also a shock.

Like others I still have the faith as I feel we have more upside to come.

With a little luck (Better licking going into the forward 50) we could have been 3 to 4 goals up 15 minutes into the first quarter.

What concerns me most was the coach himself, He looked like he had given up towards the end of the first and it didn't get better in the second. We could have tagged, flooded, swap personal around, anything in the second quarter may have helped.

If we had player not 100% he could have fixed that.

Well I hope that he comes out and give the supporters something this week because we all need better than that what was dished up last night.

I still thing that Harbrow, Huddson, Cooney, Grant will add some run/hardness/skill and grunt to the side, the boys will lift with these additions but it all comes down to how we fix between the ears.

As much as this could get some darts coming my way, I think it's time that the captain sits at the front of the team and gets some feedback, he just goes to ground to often and should have run through someone and fired up the troops. Like a Maxwell would have done.

[Grantysghost]

Tackling is overated. When you have the ball more times than your opponent then you can't tackle them they have to tackle you. Geelong is rated number one for most disposals per game and 13th in tackles, we are number 2 in Disposals and 16th in average tackles per game.

Disagree that tackling is over-rated. Its on all teams boards as a stat of note at the huddles.

Ross Lyon nearly broke his team board in half today against the Roos because they only had 6 tackles in the third quarter, thats how highly he rates them.

Forward pressure and scores from turnovers are super important these days.

The pies had 90 tackles against the cats - we had 50.

Agree if you have more possession you will have less tackles, but against top 4 sides who are high possession teams tackling is crucial.

[Sedat]

A 100 point drubbing from the hands of a contender 2 weeks before the finals. How and the hell do we come back from that? The physiological damage this loss will have is huge.
Not so sure about that. Geelong made mincemeat out of us in Round 16 2008, and when we next played them in the prelim that season we matched them for very large parts of that match. In 2009 St Kilda had us comfortably at arms length twice suring the season and we all know what happened in the prelim.

Whilst I'm comfortable that the team will give a strong account of themselves in September (but not so comfortable that we'll deliver this in week 1 of the finals), what worries me more than any psychological issue is the fact that our defensive efforts fluctuate too wildly. When we are on defensively, we are as good at it as anyone but it is inconsistently applied from game to game, quarter to quarter, contest to contest. All of Geelong, St Kilda and Collingwood are more consistent in their application of the defensive efforts than we are.

[lemmon]

Why is everyone so unashamedly biased against Hahn??? He has averaged 2.8 tackles this year, his career average is 2.6, he has averaged career highs in almost every other indicator, so either you've never liked him, or shut the hell up.

Its not about his stats, (which have been padded with good performances against lower sides) he simply looked to slow to get too and impact the contest this year. His role as a crash and bash forward has been made redundant with Hall and the improvement in Grant who offer suitable forward pressure. He was a one trick pony and unless he can find a new role, it may be curtains which is a shame for such a fine servant of the club.

[mjp]

Why is everyone so unashamedly biased against Hahn??? He has averaged 2.8 tackles this year, his career average is 2.6, he has averaged career highs in almost every other indicator, so either you've never liked him, or shut the hell up.

Huh?

If you say you want him in because of his tackling, back it up. 2.8 per game is not all that great...I think Picken is up over 4 and Crossy is nearly at 7.

I am biased against him because I have watched him play this year and he was very poor. It is no coincidence that our run of wins came once Mitch went out of the side...he is a slow-moving permanent forward in a team screaming out for run. There is a role for him as a marking forward if we can get the match-up right...but if we are depending on him for forward pressure and tackling then we are destined for disappointment.

Has he ever been my favorite player? Not really. But I have always appreciated that there was a role for him in the side. I think Hall has taken his spot, but I have been pretty clear on that opinion since we recruited him.

As for 'shut the hell up', what can I say? I gave you a stat which you clearly didn't like - but that doesn't change it!

[Mofra]

We are 16th for scoring from turnovers in our F50 - our forwardline pressure is just not good enough - Johnno is poor in this area, and I dare say Hahn wont help us in this regard as he simply lacks the pace to pressure an opponent.

Sadly (or fortunately for the futurists?), the two best in the F50 for pressure seem to be kids - Jones just keeps chasing & pressuring, and Grant seems to really want to catch the guys when he chases as well.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Disagree that tackling is over-rated. Its on all teams boards as a stat of note at the huddles.

Ross Lyon nearly broke his team board in half today against the Roos because they only had 6 tackles in the third quarter, thats how highly he rates them.

Forward pressure and scores from turnovers are super important these days.

The pies had 90 tackles against the cats - we had 50.

Agree if you have more possession you will have less tackles, but against top 4 sides who are high possession teams tackling is crucial.

The stat on our tackles against Geelong compared with Collingwood is very important as was the Pies ability to put maximum pressure on their opponent at all times. We were smashed out of the centre 22 to 9 and a very poor return from 51 advances into the forward 50. You cannot lose 4 quality players like Hudson, Cooney, Harbrow and Grant and expect to match the best in the competition.Our depth isn't that great when you go into the game with underdone preparations from the likes of Higgins, Ward and Johnson. There is no excuse however for submitting so meekly without a fight.

[Greystache]

Tackling is overated. When you have the ball more times than your opponent then you can't tackle them they have to tackle you. Geelong is rated number one for most disposals per game and 13th in tackles, we are number 2 in Disposals and 16th in average tackles per game.

That view is 5 years out of date.


Thats right when you can't get your hands on the ball. Geelong who had the ball more than us had no need to tackle and were well down on their own average.

My statements are in answer to Grantysghost where he said, tackling is an issue for us. I agree it was last night, but not the rest of the season.

You do realise Geelong had more tackles than us on Saturday night don't you?

[bornadog]

You do realise Geelong had more tackles than us on Saturday night don't you?

Yeah 6 more so what. That just proves my point if you have the ball, you don't need to tackle. We should have been the ones tackling.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We should have been the ones tackling.

We should have been, but we weren't.

Our pressure skills and tackling is by and large, ordinary.

[Mantis]

Yeah 6 more so what. That just proves my point if you have the ball, you don't need to tackle. We should have been the ones tackling.

That is the point that Greystache has been trying to get thru to you.

[bornadog]

That is the point that Greystache has been trying to get thru to you.

Sorry Mantis, Greystache came into this discussion about tackling two posts ago so how has he been trying to get that thru to me.:confused:

I was originally responding to Grantysghost when he said tackling is an issue. I stand by what I said, ie if you have the ball more times than your opponent, like Geelong do, then you don't need to tackle as much as your opposition. Geelong are number one for Disposals and 13th in tackling. We are number two for disposals, but 16th in tackles. We have lost more games, so we should be tackling more, in those games.

As for the Geelong game, we were woeful with tackling, way down on our average with only 50.

[Mantis]

Sorry Mantis, Greystache came into this discussion about tackling two posts ago so how has he been trying to get that thru to me.:confused:

I was originally responding to Grantysghost when he said tackling is an issue. I stand by what I said, ie if you have the ball more times than your opponent, like Geelong do, then you don't need to tackle as much as your opposition. Geelong are number one for Disposals and 13th in tackling. We are number two for disposals, but 16th in tackles. We have lost more games, so we should be tackling more, in those games.

As for the Geelong game, we were woeful with tackling, way down on our average with only 50.

Greystache & others... Is that better?

[The Pie Man]

Sorry Mantis, Greystache came into this discussion about tackling two posts ago so how has he been trying to get that thru to me.:confused:

I was originally responding to Grantysghost when he said tackling is an issue. I stand by what I said, ie if you have the ball more times than your opponent, like Geelong do, then you don't need to tackle as much as your opposition. Geelong are number one for Disposals and 13th in tackling. We are number two for disposals, but 16th in tackles. We have lost more games, so we should be tackling more, in those games.

As for the Geelong game, we were woeful with tackling, way down on our average with only 50.

It helps when you do both - Geelong are in the top 4 in goals scored from turnovers*

Geelong had the ball with not much resistance, and smoked us when we got a handle of it

* I'll admit I just saw that on 'On the Couch' and didn't know that beforehand

[bornadog]

Greystache & others... Is that better?

and the point is?

[Mantis]

and the point is?

That they (we) believe that tackling is extremely important to the way we play, but you obviously don't.

[bornadog]

That they (we) believe that tackling is extremely important to the way we play, but you obviously don't.

Argh Mantis now we get to the point. I never said that I don't think tackling is not important. I said its overrated as a stat. Of course tackling is important.

The points I make are:

1. In a game if I have the ball more than you then my tackling doesn't need to be as high as yours. Of course this can be argued against depending on the game.

2. Not only is tackling important but there are other areas that are hard to measure such as spoiling, pressure on the ball carrier, numbers at the ball etc. So you can't just say we have to increase our tackles.

Collingwood average 74 tackles per game, we average 61, that works out at 13 different per game, or 3 per quarter. Not a massive difference.

On Saturday Geelong had 56 tackles yet they won by 100 points. Maybe we should have had 80 tackles but only laid 50.