Rodney: Your Choice - Future or Past?

[Jasper]

With our late season injuries to key players and everyone writing us off, I believe Rodney is now in a position to make his case for his own and the club's future.

Rodney can choose players like Eagleton and Hahn, or he can back the future going into the last round. To choose the future would be a dramatic turnaround for Eade, but I believe now is the time.

Rodney has one game to get it right against the Bombers, one game to tell players who might not get another chance, to play for their lives. Or he can back aging players who have let us down in the past and are worse players this year. The choice to me is simple. But for Eade I believe this is a massive philosophical shift, that could produce gold, but at worst will tell us something about some of the younger fringe players. Its time to roll the dice, with our key players gone, no one expects anything, most people expect we will go out in straight sets. Its time for the future.

Team for the future

Out: Hahn, Eagle, Johnno, Cooney, Morris
In: DFA, Roughead, Everitt, Hill and Stack

With Wood to come in for the worst performed for the finals (Hargrave would need a good game). No more changes (injuries excepted), regardless of form, give these guys the chance, the faith to deliver.

Lineup

FB: Gilbee Lake Hargrave
CHB Murphy Williams Everitt
C: Moles Boyd Harbrow
CHF Picken Jones DFA
FF Gia Hall Grant
R: Hudson, Cross, Griffen
I: Hill, Roughead, Ward, Stack

Boyd to play lock down on Watson, in practice for Swan or Pendlebury. DFA, Cross and Picken to rotate forward in lock down roles. Murphy to rotate forward where appropriate.

People its time to be positive, its time for Eade to reject the past and embrace the future.

[SlimPickens]

Well said although i don't think Hill or Stack are in our best 22. Nor do i think Hill should be in it twice. :P

[anfo27]

Under no circumstances do I ever want to see Stack wearing the bulldogs colours.

[Jasper]

Under no circumstances do I ever want to see Stack wearing the bulldogs colours.


I hear you brother, but our hopes have been dashed at the tragic finals altar of Eagle and Hahn so many times, I say let them be dashed on Stack, he supplies some much needed pace and kicking.

With regard to Hill, I believe he is a natural replacement for the current half fit Johnno, Hill is probably better overhead than Johnno these days, and not far off Johnno on contested and defensive efforts. We need a mid sized overhead marking target, Hill is our best shot - despite his flaws.

I suppose the point I am making is these young players need to be given faith they need to be told you will play in the finals, you are going to get us over the line. With Higgins, Johnno, Aker, Cooney and Morris gone, we don't have many options.

[anfo27]

I hear you brother, but our hopes have been dashed at the tragic finals altar of Eagle and Hahn so many times, I say let them be dashed on Stack, he supplies some much needed pace and kicking.

With regard to Hill, I believe he is a natural replacement for the current half fit Johnno, Hill is probably better overhead than Johnno these days, and not far off Johnno on contested and defensive efforts. We need a mid sized overhead marking target, Hill is our best shot - despite his flaws.

I suppose the point I am making is these young players need to be given faith they need to be told you will play in the finals, you are going to get us over the line. With Higgins, Johnno, Aker, Cooney and Morris gone, we don't have many options.

He may have pace but he refuses to put his head over it and tackle and in a final that is magnified by 100.
I like Hill but he needs to show that he will do anything to get a game. I have riden Everitt quite hard the last 3 years because of these same attributes but the penny has dropped with him and he has finally turned the corner, something i was not confident in though.

[DOG GOD]

Get rid of eagle and FFS play Hill on the wing. This is where he made a mark in the team in the first place. Eade needs to stop this madness in playing him as a key fwd. He is not a key foward. let him run, create space and use his overhead marking in a good way to create further up the field.

To me Johnno is no huge loss. Cooney, yes...Morris, yes.

Hill on one wing
Everitt on the other, and lets use their height for our attacks up field.

[cambo]

Under no circumstances do I ever want to see Stack wearing the bulldogs colours.

Or Hill

Both have had enough chances and both have no HEART!!!

[Remi Moses]

Fair points I don't think a final It's going to happen.

[FrediKanoute]

Whilst it is tempting to throw a preseason and 21 weeks of work out of the window, in the cold hard light of day its not going to happen and neither should it. Looking objectively:

1) The Geelong game - aside from the 1st 15 mins it was farsical. Hard to forget though that we had a flu ravaged team so it wasn't the most ideal preparation. Coupled with the loss Geelong had to Collingwood the week before and the fact that winning more games really wasn't going to improve our position on the ladder the result was understandable....even possibly predictable.

2) The Swans game - milestone games for cherished players like Kirk don't come around often and you would think that if that was Johnno holding up his hand to say I'm done our boys would do the same. Again add to the fact we had little to play for the result wasn't surprising. Add in injuries to Cooney and Morris....well....its tough enough covering one guy, but 2.......

There are good reasons we failed in these games. Its not justification though to throw the final series away playing a bunch of rookies who are just not going to perform. There needs to be a balance because getting flogged by 100+ points in a final is not really going to be of much benefit and I'm pretty sure all the posters on this board calling for the kids to be played will be unsurprisingly absent to pick through the shambles.

My call, eade needs to call time on a few guys:

a) I think the Eagle's time is up. Kicking is now woeful and he has lost a yard of leg speed. Unless he reinventis himself this week as a lockdown midfielder then Sydney should have been his fairwell lap;
b) Hahn.....in 2 minds with Hahn. his form this year has been horrible, but I still think he has something to offer the side. In a final I think he will stand up more than Grant and Jones will so I'd almost play Hahn ahead of Jones on the basis that finals are all about mature hard bodies;
c) Hill & Stack - one of these guys should probably play. If based on form then its Stack, but I've seen nothing in Stack's play that justifies why we selected him.....sorry Clayton, but I reckon this guys is a lemon! Hill on the other hand often looks disinterested, laconic and uncommitted......yet he has a tendency to kick goals and is the kind of player who does nothing for 3 quarters and kciks 3 in a matter of minutes....he is a burst player, a guy who can change a game.
d) Higgins - glad to see that a call has been made to leave him out for the rest of the year. He is hobbled and no use to anyone with his lack of fitness
e) Ward - if we had back-up I'd almost consider spelling him as well......as it is though I think we need him and hopefully the games he is playing will lead him to some level of fitness and form.

[LostDoggy]

Time to throw Harbrow into the middle.

[Desipura]

I would add a few more to the outs (as trades) to address our weaknesses. I shall wait until after the finals as to who I would seriously look at trading.

[LostDoggy]

.

Hill on one wing
Everitt on the other, and lets use their height for our attacks up field.

Love this idea

[LostDoggy]

1. Harbrow isn't a clearance player, nor a mid, nor a run-with player. Has never played any of those roles in his career, he isn't going to rock up in the heat of finals footy and beat the best centres in the game in arguably the most demanding role on the park (that took the likes of Dal Santo, Ablett, Griff, Coons etc. 3+ years to learn to play effectively).

2. Hill and Everitt on 'wings' -- other than maybe FF and FB, strict positional roles don't really exist anymore, and if we are using the 'wing' position as a way to hide Josh and Andrejs's lack of accountability for direct opponents, it simply means we're hiding/carrying TWO players, from whom any attacking thrust would be well and truly nullified by our opposition having two free players around the park.

[Greystache]

1. Harbrow isn't a clearance player, nor a mid, nor a run-with player. Has never played any of those roles in his career, he isn't going to rock up in the heat of finals footy and beat the best centres in the game in arguably the most demanding role on the park (that took the likes of Dal Santo, Ablett, Griff, Coons etc. 3+ years to learn to play effectively).

2. Hill and Everitt on 'wings' -- other than maybe FF and FB, strict positional roles don't really exist anymore, and if we are using the 'wing' position as a way to hide Josh and Andrejs's lack of accountability for direct opponents, it simply means we're hiding/carrying TWO players, from whom any attacking thrust would be well and truly nullified by our opposition having two free players around the park.

Harbrow played in the midfield this year against West Coast including centre bounces and played very well.

[LostDoggy]

Harbrow played in the midfield this year against West Coast including centre bounces and played very well.

I stand corrected.

Still to be convinced that he can do it in Finals against the best mids (with all due respect to the Eagles).

[mighty_west]

I stand corrected.

Still to be convinced that he can do it in Finals against the best mids (with all due respect to the Eagles).

Only one way to find out, what else have we got to lose?

[Greystache]

with all due respect to the Eagles

That's not much! ;)

[boydogs]

1. Harbrow isn't a clearance player, nor a mid, nor a run-with player. Has never played any of those roles in his career, he isn't going to rock up in the heat of finals footy and beat the best centres in the game in arguably the most demanding role on the park (that took the likes of Dal Santo, Ablett, Griff, Coons etc. 3+ years to learn to play effectively).

Small forward?


2. Hill and Everitt on 'wings' -- other than maybe FF and FB, strict positional roles don't really exist anymore, and if we are using the 'wing' position as a way to hide Josh and Andrejs's lack of accountability for direct opponents, it simply means we're hiding/carrying TWO players, from whom any attacking thrust would be well and truly nullified by our opposition having two free players around the park.

Nothing to do with being unaccountable. They aren't in and under or breakaway players suited to the midfield, and not big bodied enough for a key position. They can still outmark, chase & tackle and deliver to our forwards. I've never seen Josh Hill look better than when he was getting holding the ball decisions and drifting in to outmark the opposition between the 50 metre arcs

[EasternWest]

Under no circumstances do I ever want to see Stack wearing the bulldogs colours.


He may have pace but he refuses to put his head over it and tackle and in a final that is magnified by 100.
I like Hill but he needs to show that he will do anything to get a game. I have riden Everitt quite hard the last 3 years because of these same attributes but the penny has dropped with him and he has finally turned the corner, something i was not confident in though.

Great progressive thinking Kelvinator, but I'm with anfo (and you a bit too, I guess) on Stack. I can't see any reason to give him another go.

I don't mind when young guys make errors etc, but I hate when any player wont do the things that earns their teammates respect, and Stack unfortunately wont. You only need to see his defense of Hall during "headlockgate" to see he has zero mongrel in him.

He may have talent to burn, but I haven't seen enough to suggest he deserves a long career at our club.

[LostDoggy]

Small forward?




That's the popular myth, but no way is small forward tougher than full-time run-with mid.

Cyril, Aaron Davey, Leon Davis and Gablett etc. all started in the forward arc and can still go up and kick goals if they have to, but they struggled for a long time (Cyril still struggling somewhat) to establish themselves in the middle.

The only reason the small forward reason gets the rap that it does is because the guys who generally play it (Medhurst, Milne...) are one-dimensional and have under-developed tanks, so are not versatile enough to move to another position when struggling/beaten, and therefore more prone to being shut out of a game, so giving the illusion that its more difficult to play than any other position.

[Mofra]

The only reason the small forward reason gets the rap that it does is because the guys who generally play it (Medhurst, Milne...) are one-dimensional and have under-developed tanks, so are not versatile enough to move to another position when struggling/beaten, and therefore more prone to being shut out of a game, so giving the illusion that its more difficult to play than any other position.
You also need to be smart enough to put yourself in the right position, create space for leading forwards to run into, and make the most of half-chances where you can.

Grant has been doing this well when he doesn't lead, and Hooper's smarts at Willy have me thinking he could play a crumbing role. Non-natural footballers have no chance as a small forward IMO.

[LostDoggy]

You also need to be smart enough to put yourself in the right position, create space for leading forwards to run into, and make the most of half-chances where you can.

Grant has been doing this well when he doesn't lead, and Hooper's smarts at Willy have me thinking he could play a crumbing role. Non-natural footballers have no chance as a small forward IMO.

Absolutely agree with this -- no question you have to have nous to create chances out of nothing and the likes of the Tiprat has this in spades. Nothing in this though makes it necessarily any harder than being a gun centreman in this day and age -- most of the faster superstar midfield players in the AFL could do a decent job as a small forward in a game if necessary (the ball-finding, good disposal skills under pressure, blocking, knowing where to run to stuff is transferable). The reverse isn't true.

[Mofra]

most of the faster superstar midfield players in the AFL could do a decent job as a small forward in a game if necessary (the ball-finding, good disposal skills under pressure, blocking, knowing where to run to stuff is transferable). The reverse isn't true.
I'm not quite sure that many of our mids could. Gia plays as a leading forward, Cooney hasn't kicked as many goals this year (and plays a more leading role).
The only two mids I think who would make decent crumbing forwards are Griffen and Picken, who have both kicked goals this year off minimal steps, in traffic. Sadly, both are desperately needed elsewhere.
Gut-running mids aren't generally great crumbers.

[LostDoggy]

I'm not quite sure that many of our mids could. Gia plays as a leading forward, Cooney hasn't kicked as many goals this year (and plays a more leading role).
The only two mids I think who would make decent crumbing forwards are Griffen and Picken, who have both kicked goals this year off minimal steps, in traffic. Sadly, both are desperately needed elsewhere.
Gut-running mids aren't generally great crumbers.

Hi Mofra, looks like I started a train of discussion here. Anyway, my thoughts: Gia isn't a 'fast' midfield player that I was talking about, but he suits the argument anyway. If he played exclusively 'small forward' he would finish with a pretty high goalcount. As it is he scores pretty regularly.

Similarly, if Coons played a whole season in the forward 50 he would finish with 60+ goals, a la Gablett Jr. in the mid 2000s. Ironically, I would say Coons is a better example than Griff as a 'small forward'.. he is very quick to get a shot away and in his 5 goal hauls he's kicked some pretty opportunistic stuff in and around the goalsquare.

(I'm not making a distinction between small forward/crumber, because the original premise was that 'small forward' was the most difficult position on the ground, and I don't think it is -- not saying its easy, just saying the difficulty is overrated because they get shut out so regularly.)

I doubt either Milne, Medhurst, or to pluck an older example, Farmer, could go into the middle and do anything (unless they upped their tanks, of course).

[Mofra]

I doubt either Milne, Medhurst, or to pluck an older example, Farmer, could go into the middle and do anything (unless they upped their tanks, of course).
Agree with this, and I'm not arguing that small forward is the most difficult on the ground.
I do think there are enough differences between the positions to make them not quite interchangeable, and someone who quick but not a natural footballer (using Ray as an example) would not be a great small forward.
The small forwards that are effective (I was talking more about crumbers, but using Gia as an example) are always very smart footballers and can find space/create opportunities which is something I see in Hooper.

[LostDoggy]

Agree with Hooper, who has smarts coming out of his ears. If he was half a foot to a foot taller he would have been picked up in the first round, early second latest.

Ray is a loose rebounding half-back flanker -- the easiest position to play on the ground if you have some pace (relatively speaking, of course!). He could never be an elite mid in today's AFL, which was my comparison with small forward ie. elite mid >>> elite small forward.