The 2009 crop, who will make it? [Archive]

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mighty_west

01-09-2010, 12:57 PM

There has been quite a bit of discussion about which players we thought would & would not make it at AFL level.

Obviously most players need a good 2-4 years to really be judged, some take longer to develop than others due to either body size or lack of experience as juniors, then we have players struck down with injury, the 2008 is a good example of that, Cordy was drafted as our first selection [father/son], yet will take longer than Roughead & Jones who have both played senior footy this year, Cordy's size and injury problems have really set him back.

So, time to stick the neck out, from watching these kids play or reading about them etc, who do you think will & won't make it, and why.

2009 Draft selections:
15 - Christian Howard
31 - Jason tutt
63 - Lukas Markovic
76 - Shane Thorne

2009 Rookie selections:
19 - Brodie Moles
35 - Andrew Hooper
48 - Matthew Panos
59 - Eddie Prato
68 - Patrick Rose

Dazza

01-09-2010, 01:05 PM

I'd put a line through Markovic as one that won't make it. Possibly a line through Roses name as I doubt he'll ever get the opportunity to play.

I think provided they have the right attitude the rest have every chance of making it with some given more time than others. Ie: Prato given more time to prove himself than Hooper (short) and Panos (seen as one dimensional)

Thorne is the big unknown.

The Bulldogs Bite

01-09-2010, 01:14 PM

2009 Draft selections:
15 - Christian Howard: Good chance to make it, it's not easy missing pre-season and having to play any kind of football at all but he's done well at VFL senior level. Should improve a fair bit next year. His left boot is deadly.

31 - Jason Tutt: I doubt he'll make it. Seen him a few times and his disposal is ordinary under pressure. Obviously his size works against him, too. Every time I've seen him play he looks overawed and rushed.

63 - Lukas Markovic: He's a good VFL player but that's probably it. It's mainly his lack of pace that holds him back. He's dreadfully slow meaning he'd struggle badly defending the lead at AFL level or creating separation playing as a forward. He's not the biggest guy in the world either, so I doubt he'd be able to play on monster types.

76 - Shane Thorne: Reports are his attitude is poor. He hasn't had a chance to show anything 'on the field', but it seems certain he'll be delisted.

2009 Rookie selections:
19 - Brodie Moles: He'll make it and will be elevated but I have plenty of concerns about Brodie. Needs to do a lot more, especially against better sides. He can't get involved in games against quality opposition and his disposal is hit and miss. He plays on too much in traffic, too - needs to fix this. However, he's still a good rookie pick.

35 - Andrew Hooper: Hard to say at this stage, but I'll take a punt and say he plays some games. He goes about his footy well - doesn't take a backward step. However, it's his football smarts that impresses me most. Knows where to go to get the ball, his body work is good and knows where the goals are. Good rookie pick IMO and should be elevated.

48 - Matthew Panos: Shows some positive signs but he needs to get involved more. Not many players can suffice getting under 10 possessions a game so it's something he needs to work on. Perhaps another pre-season/bigger fitness base will give us a better indication on this. He's a great kick for goal and has a solid body size. There's potential, and I like this rookie pick. Should definitely be given another season as a rookie.

59 - Eddie Prato: I haven't seen much of him. Only really at training etc. Pretty raw with a lot to learn, but apparently has been doing OK. It's worth noting Sandilands started from a mile back, and Prato certainly has ability. Should be kept on.

68 - Patrick Rose: Good VFL player but couldn't increase his tank to offer us anything in the midfield. He's found form back in the forward half but needed to show more further up the ground. He won't be retained IMO.

Mofra

01-09-2010, 01:44 PM

I disagree on Tutt - the last game I saw (two weeks ago) things seemed to click for him and he started to pick up the pace of the game. Not a definite, but a wait and see.

Howard looks like a talented boy playing men - hope we don't get impatient with him, as I see him as someone who will take time physically but his leg-cannon is something that is worth persisting with.

Hooper has smarts (which can't be taught) and I'd expect him to debut next year - a big pre-season should put him in calculations and a trial during the NAB cup will boost his confidence.

Moles I'm unsure of - I was critical of his disposal under pressure, it seems to have improved as the year wears on but finals will be a test for him. Certainly good depth player at the very least, another year in the system will be interesting.

Not too hopeful of the others to be honest, Marcovic is depth but not a chance to push out Lake/Williams

Murphy'sLore

01-09-2010, 02:19 PM

Didn't Rodney Eade say that Howard and Tutt could very well play seniors next year? It sounds as if he has faith in those two at least.

always right

01-09-2010, 02:43 PM

2009 Draft selections:

31 - Jason Tutt: I doubt he'll make it. Seen him a few times and his disposal is ordinary under pressure. Obviously his size works against him, too. Every time I've seen him play he looks overawed and rushed.

Wow...quick to judge:eek:

The Bulldogs Bite

01-09-2010, 02:59 PM

I disagree on Tutt - the last game I saw (two weeks ago) things seemed to click for him and he started to pick up the pace of the game. Not a definite, but a wait and see.

He looked better and got involved more which was pleasing, but some of his disposal was still dreadful under pressure and inferred pressure.

Wow...quick to judge:eek:

Miss the original post?

He did say stick your neck out and make a judgement. This is clearly mine.

Mofra

01-09-2010, 03:54 PM

Didn't Rodney Eade say that Howard and Tutt could very well play seniors next year? It sounds as if he has faith in those two at least.
He also said Grant could play 10 games last year - Eade generally says what players need to hear, not what will happen

Remi Moses

01-09-2010, 04:30 PM

I think Eade had more faith than some supporters I'd care not to mention on a particular footy site!

mighty_west

01-09-2010, 05:12 PM

Wow...quick to judge:eek:

It's the beauty of making early calls, we all get some wrong either way, hey, i thought Michael West was going to be a superstar from watching him go around the U/18's...BU BOW!

Most who would have watched Picken go around at Willy a few years ago would say he was no way known good enough to make a step up etc etc.

mjp

01-09-2010, 05:23 PM

i thought Michael West was going to be a superstar from watching him go around the U/18's...BU BOW!

This comment surprises me.

I still have no idea how Michael West got drafted in any way, shape or form.

Mentioning the day he kicked 13 goals against (I think) Dandenong or Eastern when all their best players were competing in a trial game doesn't count.

GVGjr

01-09-2010, 05:37 PM

mighty_west

01-09-2010, 06:31 PM

This comment surprises me.

I still have no idea how Michael West got drafted in any way, shape or form.

Mentioning the day he kicked 13 goals against (I think) Dandenong or Eastern when all their best players were competing in a trial game doesn't count.

Just from a few games i watched [also taped & still have on VHS as well], plus a few games for Werribee reserves, did alot of ruckwork as well as playing FF, not quick, but very smart player, unfortunatly his dodgy knee's couldn't hold up, when he re-did his knee at Werribee, it was all done & dusted.

LostDoggy

01-09-2010, 06:33 PM

Reading the latest Bulldog mag, Howard & Tutt will both play senior footy next year.

Go_Dogs

01-09-2010, 06:58 PM

To complete the picture for 2009 we need to consider two other players as well.
James Mulligan for being promoted to the senior list when we had the option to keep him om the rookie list for another season and Jameson Daniels who was retained on the rookie list.

Good call.

Mulligan seems to have had another so so year much like he did last year, where he was then rewarded with a senior list spot. It was a bit of a surprising call at the time, but I guess the club saw potential with him.

It'll be interesting to see what becomes of him at seasons end, and I tend to think we'll give him one more year as we are a bit conservative and he still has a chance of making it.

Daniels seems to have had a bad run with injuries, and although he's showed a bit I'm not convinced we'll retain him given he hasn't been able to establish himself in the VFL seniors with consistent performances (perhaps he's still playing injured though, I don't know).

It's a massive year for us list management wise.

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot

01-09-2010, 07:11 PM

It's a massive year for us list management wise.

The thing that worries me is that it's not exactly a great time to be de-listing many and trying to find good young talent in the draft to replace them with, given GC & GWS will be hoovering up all the obvious young kids over the next couple of years.
Given we will probably have to use our 1st two picks on Libba and Wallis, Dalrymple and Co are going to either have to unearth some gems noone knows about, or do the best they can recycling players in the pre-season draft.

Go_Dogs

01-09-2010, 07:31 PM

The thing that worries me is that it's not exactly a great time to be de-listing many and trying to find good young talent in the draft to replace them with, given GC & GWS will be hoovering up all the obvious young kids over the next couple of years.
Given we will probably have to use our 1st two picks on Libba and Wallis, Dalrymple and Co are going to either have to unearth some gems noone knows about, or do the best they can recycling players in the pre-season draft.

Agreed.

The thing is, we have specific needs, and enough "star" players for the shorter term at present. We should be able to fill those needs, albeit with picks equivalent to 4th round and onwards. The strike rate probably won't be as high, but if we do the research and get the identification right, we can get the job done IMO.

It's not only Dalrymple's responsibility as the other members of the List Management team need to make the hard decisions too. Certainly hugely important though, and we can't have a situation like this year where we have a quite likely, a maybe and two not a chance selections inside 12 months.

How many upgrades we make may also play a part and I guess it's possible even if we turn over 6 senior list positions we only have 2 live picks.

Sockeye Salmon

01-09-2010, 07:37 PM

The thing that worries me is that it's not exactly a great time to be de-listing many and trying to find good young talent in the draft to replace them with, given GC & GWS will be hoovering up all the obvious young kids over the next couple of years.
Given we will probably have to use our 1st two picks on Libba and Wallis, Dalrymple and Co are going to either have to unearth some gems noone knows about, or do the best they can recycling players in the pre-season draft.

Johnson and Eagleton are veterans so they don't count.
Aker and Callan are offset by elevating Moles and Hooper.
Harbrow and Thorne will be replaced by Liberatore and Wallis.

How many more delistings do we need?

I would ask Hahn to step aside. That would leave us with a single live pick in the regular draft - likely to be around the mid-50's.

Daniels and Rose will probably be let go. Moles and Hooper to the seior list. Prato and Panos retained. That leaves us with 6 live rookie picks.

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot

01-09-2010, 07:40 PM

Johnson and Eagleton are veterans so they don't count.
Aker and Callan are offset by elevating Moles and Hooper.
Harbrow and Thorne will be replaced by Liberatore and Wallis.

How many more delistings do we need?

I would ask Hahn to step aside. That would leave us with a single live pick in the regular draft - likely to be around the mid-50's.

Daniels and Rose will probably be let go. Moles and Hooper to the seior list. Prato and Panos retained. That leaves us with 6 live rookie picks.

how bout Mulligan? Is he likely to get a new contract or is he already contracted for next year?

Greystache

01-09-2010, 07:40 PM

comrade

01-09-2010, 08:09 PM

I think Hahn will be retained for next year.

As suggested in the other thread, he's doing a mighty fine Scott Welsh impersonation heading in to finals. Hopefully that extends to the same decision Welshy made at the end of last year.

Greystache

01-09-2010, 08:16 PM

As suggested in the other thread, he's doing a mighty fine Scott Welsh impersonation heading in to finals. Hopefully that extends to the same decision Welshy made at the end of last year.

I don't think it will however.

Sockeye Salmon

01-09-2010, 08:22 PM

how bout Mulligan? Is he likely to get a new contract or is he already contracted for next year?

I never did understand why he was elevated last year.

I've no idea what they will do with him.

chef

01-09-2010, 08:33 PM

I think Hahn will be retained for next year.

He shouldn't be, but I agree that he probably will.

Ovatheboarder

01-09-2010, 08:53 PM

76 - Shane Thorne: Reports are his attitude is poor. He hasn't had a chance to show anything 'on the field', but it seems certain he'll be delisted.

Bit harsh on Thorne considering his long term injury and as he was drafted via the main draft last year he is on a guarenteed 2 year contract.

GVGjr

01-09-2010, 09:00 PM

Bit harsh on Thorne considering his long term injury and as he was drafted via the main draft last year he is on a guarenteed 2 year contract.
I understand what you are saying but if a player isn't measuring up to the demands of AFL football then the right thing to do is to cut them free. He wouldn't want to spend another season at the club if he was just going to play in the Williamstown reserves and top up the seniors when required.
Best to pay out the balance of his contract and look at someone else.

GVGjr

01-09-2010, 09:02 PM

I never did understand why he was elevated last year.

I've no idea what they will do with him.

It just didn't make sense because the option was there to keep him at the club as a 3rd year rookie anyway.

Athletically great but on the form he has shown so far he can't have convinced enough people that he can become a senior footballer.

GVGjr

01-09-2010, 09:33 PM

2009 Draft selections:
15 - Christian Howard
31 - Jason tutt
63 - Lukas Markovic
76 - Shane Thorne

2009 Rookie selections:
19 - Brodie Moles
35 - Andrew Hooper
48 - Matthew Panos
59 - Eddie Prato
68 - Patrick Rose

Senior list
Howard and Tutt can't be judged as not going to make it as per the normal practice with our recruit of project players they will just take some time. The club placed a premium on kicking skills and these guys need a good pre-season so we can gauge their value in 2011.

Markovic is unlikely to offer us too much except for some short term coverage. I don't think he has shown enough to hold his spot but I won't be upset if he does.

I can't see Thorne staying at the club.

I will add Mulligan to this list as well but at the moment I simply don't know if we should keep him for another season or not. My gut feel is that he won't quite measure up but he could be the last player retained on the list dependent on which players retire or asked to get traded.

Rookie list
Moles - should survive and be promoted to the senior list but to me he is a depth player.
Hooper - it would be tempting to promote him.
Panos - the best I would offer him is another season on the rookie list.
Prato - as above. There might be another club interested in him but I would take that risk.
Rose - we won't play him so he won't be there next season.
Daniels - I would offer him another season on the rookie list.

Summary
Markovic, Thorne, Mulligan and Rose will struggle to hold their spots providing their contracts can be settled.
Moles and Hooper promoted.

Prato, Panos and Daniels retained as rookies.

mighty_west

01-09-2010, 09:46 PM

Rookie list
Moles - should survive and be promoted to the senior list but to me he is a depth player.
Hooper - it would be tempting to promote him.
Panos - the best I would offer him is another season on the rookie list.
Prato - as above. There might be another club interested in him but I would take that risk.
Rose - we won't play him so he won't be there next season.
Daniels - I would offer him another season on the rookie list.

Summary
Markovic, Thorne, Mulligan and Rose will struggle to hold their spots providing their contracts can be settled.
Moles and Hooper promoted.

Prato, Panos and Daniels retained as rookies.

What is it with Daniels that makes you think he should be retained?

You have obviously seen alot more of him than what i have, but to me, his skills just don't seem to be good enough as an outside mid, just can't see much of an upside there, i hope i'm wrong off course.

GVGjr

01-09-2010, 09:49 PM

What is it with Daniels that makes you think he should be retained?

You have obviously seen alot more of him than what i have, but to me, his skills just don't seem to be good enough as an outside mid, just can't see much of an upside there, i hope i'm wrong off course.

I will concede that he will be very lucky to hold his spot but I think there is merit to see if there is another step of improvement in him. I also like the idea of using the option of retaining a rookie for a 3rd year if there is the chance that there is some scope for improvement.

mighty_west

01-09-2010, 09:58 PM

2009 Draft selections:

15 - Christian Howard : Like what i see, has the poise & skills to make it imo, plus to go through without a pre season, and end up playing quite a few senior Williamstown games speaks volumes in his first season, also spent some time on the long term injury list.

31 - Jason tutt : haven't seen as much of Tutt as i have with Howard, but even with his light frame, skills seem to be pretty good, i remember a kid called Gilbee that also looked very small when he first started, there is something there with Tutt.

63 - Lukas Markovic : a VFL standard big defender, don't see an upside there to take that next step.

76 - Shane Thorne : can't comment on his game, but if the attitude isn't that great, as suggested, as a mature pick, can't see much of a future there.

2009 Rookie selections:

19 - Brodie Moles : shows enough to be retained, not too sure he will be anything more than just a depth player.

35 - Andrew Hooper : love this kid, only small, but has that raging bull type of game style, intensity will never be an issue, really excited with Hoops.

48 - Matthew Panos : worth persisting with, has kicked the big bags in the 2's, and played a few senior games.

59 - Eddie Prato : haven't really seen enough of him to make a call.

68 - Patrick Rose : as a midfielder, no way known, as a small forward, i'm on the fence with Rose, would have loved to have seen him get a game or 2 in the NAB Cup.

Mulligan & Daniels - nope, Mulligan just doesn't look the part and Daniels lack of skills will hurt as an outside mid.

Sockeye Salmon

01-09-2010, 11:43 PM