Fevola faces axe from Lions

[Greystache]

BRENDAN Fevola's career hangs in the balance with the Brisbane Lions investigating accusations of improper conduct by the star full forward.

The Courier-Mail can reveal a member of the public has lodged a formal complaint with the Lions following Fevola's alleged behaviour at an AFL family day in Brisbane over the weekend.

If found guilty, the controversial Fevola is almost certain to have his $700,000-a-season deal torn up by the Lions.

It is understood Queensland police and the AFL have been notified of the alleged incident.

The Brisbane Lions will be putting out a statement in relation to Fevola this afternoon.

The 29-year-old Fevola met with Lions powerbrokers this morning to tell his side of the story.

The Lions are taking the allegations seriously but have pledged to conduct a thorough investigation because Fevola has previously been the subject of a series of false accusations.

The former Carlton star has lurched from one controversy to the next since linking with the Lions this season.

Fevola was embroiled in the Lara Bingle nude photo scandal, has admitted to a gambling problem and came under fire again last month after he was seen entering a Melbourne nightclub at 7am


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/lions-investigate-brendan-fevola-complaint-as-afl-stars-future-hangs-in-balance/story-e6frf9jf-1225915882855

[Desipura]

Wow, just WOW

[AndrewP6]

Identical story in TCD's post from the Courier Mail - word for word. I'm guessing they're both owned by Rupert Murdoch...

[Mofra]

Any idea what he has supposedly done now?

[The Coon Dog]

Any idea what he has supposedly done now?
What does a camera do when you take a photo inside?

[Mofra]

Cheers - what a fool. Surely a normal person would have learned by now.

[Greystache]

Identical story in TCD's post from the Courier Mail - word for word. I'm guessing they're both owned by Rupert Murdoch...

Yep just saw TCD's thread.

Mods- would you mind merging?

[The Coon Dog]

Lions holding a Press Conference at 3.30pm.

[bornadog]

Alleged to have exposed himself to a female supporter outside a hotel.

[mighty_west]

Lions holding a Press Conference at 3.30pm.

You would think that Fev just played his last ever game of football in the big league, the man is a walking time bomb....perhaps Steve Price should sign him up to join his crew on MTR, would fit in nicely....:p

[bornadog]

You would think that Fev just played his last ever game of football in the big league, the man is a walking time bomb....perhaps Steve Price should sign him up to join his crew on MTR, would fit in nicely....:p

Good opportunity for Lions to get some salary cap back by getting rid of him.

[Desipura]

Good opportunity for Lions to get some salary cap back by getting rid of him.
Is it? Unless his contract had stipulated certain conditions, I thought he would be paid out.

[mighty_west]

Good opportunity for Lions to get some salary cap back by getting rid of him.

Indeed, and make sure the likes of Black & Brown are well looked after for all they have given to that club.

[bornadog]

Fevola suspended indefinitely until incident is investigated. Man has complained he exposed himself in front of wife and kids. Police have also been notified.

[The Coon Dog]

Fevola suspended indefinitely until incident is investigated.

Suspended from what?

[aker39]

Suspended from what?

All club activities.

Here's the official statement from Brisbane.

http://www.lions.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/5085/newsid/102246/default.aspx

[LostDoggy]

Suspended from what?

a Bridge would be nice.....:D:D

[The Coon Dog]

a Bridge would be nice.....:D:D
Yes, very nice!

[Desipura]

I thought a heading titled "Newsflash, newsflash" would have been more accurate.;)

[The Underdog]

Aaah, schadenfreude, how I've missed you.

[Topdog]

Is it? Unless his contract had stipulated certain conditions, I thought he would be paid out.

Considering his past I would be astounded if such clauses aren't in his contract.

[Desipura]

Considering his past I would be astounded if such clauses aren't in his contract.
With Vossy, nothing would astound me. The sam guy gave 2+ year contracts to the likes of Raines & Buchanan to name a few

[Flamethrower]

Another "Mad Monday" incident from this fool. How many "strikes" is he up to now? More than Tom Selleck in Mr Baseball.

[Dry Rot]

This just reminds me how well Hall has done this year.

IIRC there have been 4 "bad boys" change clubs recently, with serious question marks over their heads.

Aker: stuffed up at the Lions, did the same to us

Lovett: questionable acts at the Bombers, joins the Saints, now charged with rape

Fevola: string of bad shit at Carlton, Bingle and now this at the Lions

Hall: a couple of seasons of on-field temper/violence incidents at the Swans, an exemplary season (sometimes under duress) with us.

Well Barry Hall. :)

[AndrewP6]

This just reminds me how well Hall has done this year.


He did threaten to take Sam Newman "out the back, one on one"... but that was more like community service :)

[Doggy]

[QUOTE=Dry Rot;177169]This just reminds me how well Hall has done this year.


I remember not so long ago the criticism we copped from opposition supporters for taking Hall over Fevola.

Just heard on 10 news that Fev has made a statement and denies all allegations. I hope for his sake that it is a beat up.

[LostDoggy]

Just heard on 10 news that Fev has made a statement and denies all allegations. I hope for his sake that it is a beat up.

Guess if we're patient all will be revealed.

[jazzadogs]

Guess if we're patient all will be revealed.
Intentional play on words? I hope so.

[boydogs]

Considering his past I would be astounded if such clauses aren't in his contract.

Isn't it the same contract he had when at Carlton, that the Blues are still paying part of? If the Brownlow episode didn't breach it, then this may not either

[ledge]

Find it strange that he denies allegations but the club has banned him , must be some sort of proof.
The club did say they had rang the family involved a few times,

[LostDoggy]

Find it strange that he denies allegations but the club has banned him , must be some sort of proof.
The club did say they had rang the family involved a few times,
Sounds like FEV, but it would be so easy to falsely accuse someone like him as most would assume he was guilty. If he is guilty, throw the book at him. I suppose we are incocent until proven guilty. True or not I really feel for his family, I think his oldest daughter would be old enough to hear all this stuff.

[EasternWest]

This just reminds me how well Hall has done this year.

IIRC there have been 4 "bad boys" change clubs recently, with serious question marks over their heads.

Aker: stuffed up at the Lions, did the same to us

Lovett: questionable acts at the Bombers, joins the Saints, now charged with rape

Fevola: string of bad shit at Carlton, Bingle and now this at the Lions

Hall: a couple of seasons of on-field temper/violence incidents at the Swans, an exemplary season (sometimes under duress) with us.

Well Barry Hall. :)

The difference is nobody thought Barry was a d!ckhead off the field. He has always been spoken highly of. The other three, well, not so much.

[immortalmike]

This just reminds me how well Hall has done this year.

IIRC there have been 4 "bad boys" change clubs recently, with serious question marks over their heads.

Aker: stuffed up at the Lions, did the same to us

Lovett: questionable acts at the Bombers, joins the Saints, now charged with rape

Fevola: string of bad shit at Carlton, Bingle and now this at the Lions

Hall: a couple of seasons of on-field temper/violence incidents at the Swans, an exemplary season (sometimes under duress) with us.

Well Barry Hall. :)

I'm not sure how you did it but you've forgot Ben Cousins. Who I guess did moderately well, he's still a smarmy....I better leave it at that.

On Fev: The guy has all the talent and ability in the world and has had more chances than he deserves, but I'm afraid he is just the dumbest individual I have ever seen (not counting Aker).

[Mofra]

Considering his past I would be astounded if such clauses aren't in his contract.
I am astounded too - article this morning says there aren't any conduct clauses. How stupid could the Lions be?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/fev-not-gone-yet/story-e6frf9jf-1225916041207


It was confirmed yesterday Fevola had no behavioural clauses in his contract.

On a brighter note, we wont have to worry about Brisbane Lions being a legitimate condender for the flag for another decade after Vossy has destroyed the club.

[Topdog]

With Vossy, nothing would astound me. The sam guy gave 2+ year contracts to the likes of Raines & Buchanan to name a few

DING DING we have a winner. Here I am astounded.....

[LostDoggy]

So far it's been reported that the incident happened 'at a family day', then it was at a 'non club function' now we're hearing it happened 'in a park'.

Even though it's somewhat natural to assume he's been a naughty boy again, maybe we should wait until the truth comes out, rather than believe the media. Because we all know how accurate they are...... :rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

Dum de dum dum dum.

Hall over Fev anyday.

[Sedat]

This whole situation smells decidedly whiffy.

I'm smelling a Brisbane Lions push to work with the AFL to have the AFL Executive de-register Brendan Fevola.

Then I'm smelling that, due "exceptional circumstances clearly out of Brisbane FC's control" Fevola's negotiated payout will be excluded from Brisbane's salary cap.

The AFL want him gone. Brisbane want him gone. They will work together to bend the rules to make this happen, because no-one ever said that this was a fair and equitable competition.

What's in it for the AFL? Idiot-boy Fev is no longer around to disgrace the brand, and one of their love-child clubs gets the salary-cap relief they need to avoid slipping into basket case territory.

Very whiffy indeed.

[Greystache]

This whole situation smells decidedly whiffy.

I'm smelling a Brisbane Lions push to work with the AFL to have the AFL Executive de-register Brendan Fevola.

Then I'm smelling that, due "exceptional circumstances clearly out of Brisbane FC's control" Fevola's negotiated payout will be excluded from Brisbane's salary cap.

The AFL want him gone. Brisbane want him gone. They will work together to bend the rules to make this happen, because no-one ever said that this was a fair and equitable competition.

What's in it for the AFL? Idiot-boy Fev is no longer around to disgrace the brand, and one of their love-child clubs gets the salary-cap relief they need to avoid slipping into basket case territory.

Very whiffy indeed.

Agreed. I could only imagine how little support the AFL would offer if Fevola was at Adelaide, Collingwood, or most of all West Coast.

[Mofra]

Hall over Fev anyday.
Why do you say that?

Just because he was cheaper in $$$ terms, cheaper in the trade, has kicked more goals for us, is a better team player, has been largely controversy free, will play for longer than Fev will or because he seems to have helped the development of Grant & Jones?

Screw shaudenfraude - I'm happy :)

[Dry Rot]

I'm not sure how you did it but you've forgot Ben Cousins. Who I guess did moderately well, he's still a smarmy....I better leave it at that.



Good point.

I put it down partly to much less coverage about him up here in Sydney, and partly due to the fact that I often completely forget about Richmond.

Yep, Cousins did pretty well at the Tigers, as far as we know....

[Murphy'sLore]

This whole situation smells decidedly whiffy.

I'm smelling a Brisbane Lions push to work with the AFL to have the AFL Executive de-register Brendan Fevola.

Then I'm smelling that, due "exceptional circumstances clearly out of Brisbane FC's control" Fevola's negotiated payout will be excluded from Brisbane's salary cap.

The AFL want him gone. Brisbane want him gone. They will work together to bend the rules to make this happen, because no-one ever said that this was a fair and equitable competition.

What's in it for the AFL? Idiot-boy Fev is no longer around to disgrace the brand, and one of their love-child clubs gets the salary-cap relief they need to avoid slipping into basket case territory.

Very whiffy indeed.

So it's a conspiracy or a ... oh never mind ;)

[LostDoggy]

Why do you say that?

Just because he was cheaper in $$$ terms, cheaper in the trade, has kicked more goals for us, is a better team player, has been largely controversy free, will play for longer than Fev will or because he seems to have helped the development of Grant & Jones?

Screw shaudenfraude - I'm happy :)

yeah... I should have thought about it more... maybe I am just Barry biased!

[immortalmike]

Good point.

I put it down partly to much less coverage about him up here in Sydney, and partly due to the fact that I often completely forget about Richmond.

Yep, Cousins did pretty well at the Tigers, as far as we know....

Fair point.

[LostDoggy]

Fevola suspended indefinitely until incident is investigated


Suspended from what?


All club activities.

I'm confused!
Didn't he suspend himself from all club activities all through out the year? You know, when he was on the field?

[ledge]

Was this a club function or an AFL organised function ?

[AndrewP6]

Was this a club function or an AFL organised function ?

According to the Lion's statement, it was a "non-Club" function...

[ledge]

According to the Lion's statement, it was a "non-Club" function...

So that makes it an AFL function, a family day, means the club is not responsible but the AFL are,no wonder they are really pushing this one.

[The Coon Dog]

Queensland Police say there is NO case to answer.

[Daughter of the West]

Queensland Police say there is NO case to answer.

Where would this leave him and Brisbane then?

[jazzadogs]

Where would this leave him and Brisbane then?
Him contracted, Brisbane still buggered.

[Daughter of the West]

Him contracted, Brisbane still buggered.

Voss is probably cursing as we speak....

[Topdog]

Voss is probably cursing as we speak....

I'm sticking with my image of him sitting in a corner at AFL HQ (assume trade week is there) rocking back and fourth swearing at himself.

[ReLoad]

Interesting how Fev was suspended by the club pending the police investigation, yet a couple of magpies can continue like business as usual.

I'm not saying Fev doesnt have form, just interesting how different clubs handle an equally serious alleged incident.

personally if it were to happen at the club I love I would expect nothing less of the player being stood down pending the investigation.

[LostDoggy]

While I think Fev is a real dickhead, I was worried that something like this could easily be pinned on him with his reputation. It appears that it was a false accusation, realy sad how a false accusation can damage someone's already damaged reputation. Could end up the same with the alledged Collingwood case, iy the Collingwood player/s are guilty, throw the book at them, if not will really harm their reputation guilty or not.

[Bulldog4life]

While I think Fev is a real dickhead, I was worried that something like this could easily be pinned on him with his reputation. It appears that it was a false accusation, realy sad how a false accusation can damage someone's already damaged reputation. Could end up the same with the alledged Collingwood case, iy the Collingwood player/s are guilty, throw the book at them, if not will really harm their reputation guilty or not.

Not really. When it comes down to a She said he said situation it is very hard to prove.

[Doc26]

Assuming his innocence probably a good outcome for us whilst in trade negotiations as Brisbane is left with salary cap pressure having to wear his large back ended contract.

[Rocco Jones]

Assuming his innocence probably a good outcome for us whilst in trade negotiations as Brisbane is left with salary cap pressure having to wear his large back ended contract.

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

[Ghost Dog]

Brisbane supporters must be livid. What a white elephant.

[Greystache]

Assuming his innocence probably a good outcome for us whilst in trade negotiations as Brisbane is left with salary cap pressure having to wear his large back ended contract.

Interestingly Brisbane still haven't confirmed he's welcome back at the club, they want to get all the available information from the QLD police and the AFL before making a decision. Looks like they're still hoping there's something in there that they can use as justification for terminating him, but listening to their Chairman Angus Johnson last night he sounded almost resigned to the fact they'll have to take him back.

[ledge]

I heard he was allowed back to train with the club today.

[LostDoggy]

I heard he was allowed back to train with the club today.

The Hun reported that too.

[The Coon Dog]

Fevola arrested in Brisbane

Suellen Hindle - Herald Sun - 1 Jan

AFL footballer and Brisbane Lions player Brendan Fevola has been arrested in Brisbane during New Year's Eve celebrations.

Police confirmed that a 29-year-old man Norman Park man was arrested at 4.30am in Brunswick St, Fortitude Valley.

He has been charged with public nuisance and obstructing police.

It is alleged that when police approached he became aggressive and refused to co-operate with their orders.

At 7.30am he was still in custody but is expected to be bailed today to appear in court on January 18.

Link (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/fevola-arrested-in-brisbane/story-e6frf7kx-1225979892394)

* I wonder if his New Year's Resolution was to behave himself?

[DOG GOD]

Fevola arrested in Brisbane

Suellen Hindle - Herald Sun - 1 Jan

AFL footballer and Brisbane Lions player Brendan Fevola has been arrested in Brisbane during New Year's Eve celebrations.

Police confirmed that a 29-year-old man Norman Park man was arrested at 4.30am in Brunswick St, Fortitude Valley.

He has been charged with public nuisance and obstructing police.

It is alleged that when police approached he became aggressive and refused to co-operate with their orders.

At 7.30am he was still in custody but is expected to be bailed today to appear in court on January 18.

Link (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/fevola-arrested-in-brisbane/story-e6frf7kx-1225979892394)

* I wonder if his New Year's Resolution was to behave himself?

When will this guy learn? Typical behaviour though from a complete scumbag. Thank god he never came to our club.

[LostDoggy]

What an idiot! Again. Again. And Again :rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

He is a stupid, stupid man but maybe if the Lions let him go, he might fit in well with the culture at the Aints! (Oh, I'm a very bad girl :o)

[Sockeye Salmon]

The funniest bit is that we don't even bother to start a new thread when he plays up anymore, just add another note to the thread we've got. Ho hum.

[ledge]

The funniest bit is that we don't even bother to start a new thread when he plays up anymore, just add another note to the thread we've got. Ho hum.

If he gets sacked, how does he pay his debts and whats to stop him racking up more?
Might be a victim of suicide or disappear, sad when you consider the natural talent he had given to him at birth.
Cant put brains into a monument.

[Twodogs]

The funniest bit is that we don't even bother to start a new thread when he plays up anymore, just add another note to the thread we've got. Ho hum.



That's so true. Fev just disappeared into oblivion and everyone says "Told ya, that was always going to happen"

[Murphy'sLore]

Not funny, it's sad. He obviously has a major problem (or three) and either isn't getting, or can't make use of, the help he needs. It's gone way beyond a joke now. Poor bastard.

[Desipura]

Not funny, it's sad. He obviously has a major problem (or three) and either isn't getting, or can't make use of, the help he needs. It's gone way beyond a joke now. Poor bastard.

Agree, it's deeper than just being an idiot, has some serious issues.

[LostDoggy]

I don't really give a crap about an over paid 9 year old in an adult body , I worry about Alex and the children , they are the innocent victims who will pay a higher emotional price than Brendan can imagine . Alex needs to drop him like a hot rock, take her half of what he hasn't pissed, vomited or thrown away and get on with her life. The Brisbane Board needs to drop him like a hot rock, forgiving him his indiscretions just reinforces Brendan's attitude that he can do what he likes , when he likes and he will only get some media scrutiny and a rap over the knuckles . Brendan needs to walk away from his AFL career and get on with life as a civilian , the money, the media attention , has poisoned his mind , and the only antidote to that poison is a good dose of reality

.

[AndrewP6]

My first reaction was "Idiot"... but as others have said, he has some serious issues that he hasn't or can't deal with. Having people close to me who've been through similar situations (although not related to gambling), the easy and quick response is to say "To hell with them"... but then, as dumb as he is, and as much damage as he's done (to himself and others), he is also someone's father, husband and son. Football aside, I hope for his and his family's sake, that he's able to recover from whatever issues he's facing.

[LostDoggy]

Yes, upon reflection I must admit I feel sad for him. He obviously has many issues, i.e., gambling and alcohol, and unfortunately because he is in the public's eye, we get to see and hear all about them. In the end, he won't be remembered for the great goals he has kicked but for the stupid things he has done!

[BulldogBelle]

He's really doing it tough now I also feel sad for him, at least he realises he now needs help and has booked himself into a Rehab Clinic. The distance away from his kids would be torture for him.

Fev checks into clinic for some Lion taming (http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/fev-checks-into-clinic-for-some-lion-taming-20110102-19d3y.html)

[KT31]

He's really doing it tough now I also feel sad for him, at least he realises he now needs help and has booked himself into a Rehab Clinic. The distance away from his kids would be torture for him.

Fev checks into clinic for some Lion taming (http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/fev-checks-into-clinic-for-some-lion-taming-20110102-19d3y.html)

I hope for his families sake he is seriously trying to get help and this is not just a last grasp effort from Fev and his manager to try and save his career.

[AndrewP6]

I hope for his families sake he is seriously trying to get help and this is not just a last grasp effort from Fev and his manager to try and save his career.

If he can rehab from the issues he has, the reason for doing it wouldn't matter...so long as he sticks with it.

[LostDoggy]

If he gets sacked, how does he pay his debts and whats to stop him racking up more?
Might be a victim of suicide or disappear, sad when you consider the natural talent he had given to him at birth.
Cant put brains into a monument.

If he gets sacked they will most likely have to pay him out. Brisbane were more stupid than he here, because I doubt they put behaviour clauses on his contract. Brisbane have been looking excuses for a while now to out him without paying him.
If Lovett got paid out then Fev will too.

[LostDoggy]

If he gets sacked they will most likely have to pay him out. Brisbane were more stupid than he here, because I doubt they put behaviour clauses on his contract. Brisbane have been looking excuses for a while now to out him without paying him.
If Lovett got paid out then Fev will too.

Brisbane would be making the case for the AFL to delist him for bringing the game into disrepute, the AFL would want this to be as simple as possible , their position would be to have the issue go quiet , let Brendan stay away from the Club to get some help and advice about what he might do after his career is finished and then before the season starts delist him . Brisbane would not have to pay him out of his contract but would most likely pay for medical, psychological, legal assistance etc.

.

[LostDoggy]

Brisbane would be making the case for the AFL to delist him for bringing the game into disrepute, the AFL would want this to be as simple as possible , their position would be to have the issue go quiet , let Brendan stay away from the Club to get some help and advice about what he might do after his career is finished and then before the season starts delist him . Brisbane would not have to pay him out of his contract but would most likely pay for medical, psychological, legal assistance etc.
.

Sounds like the similar case St.Kilda mounted against Lovett in which they settled out of court (paid out Lovett). Accusations of getting drunk no matter how many times and then arrested to me isn't the same as 2 accusations of rape.
Brisbane fault not Fevs for not putting behaviourial clauses in the contract.
Fev isn't that stupid to go quietly if not paid out. If he doesn't get help from the AFLPA than that group is useless not just for Fev but all its members.

[Ghost Dog]

For a small country, we certainly have our share of sporting misadventures.
There are 1.5 billion people in China and I think we compete pretty well when it comes to sports scandles.

[KT31]

If he can rehab from the issues he has, the reason for doing it wouldn't matter...so long as he sticks with it.

He will have to be honest with himself and he has to be prepared to face the truth.
If it is a publicity stunt or a act to save his career he doesn't have a hope. he will breeze threw it with no commitment and the same ugly demons will eventually raise their heads.

[Mofra]

There are 1.5 billion people in China and I think we compete pretty well when it comes to sports scandles.
China doesn't exactly have a comparable open media though - I dare say if they want to cover up a scandel it would be much easier.
We do tend to deify our sports stars more than almost any other country in the world.

[Mofra]

If he gets sacked they will most likely have to pay him out. Brisbane were more stupid than he here, because I doubt they put behaviour clauses on his contract. Brisbane have been looking excuses for a while now to out him without paying him.
If Lovett got paid out then Fev will too.
They didn't, but they will consider the get out clause they were thinking of last time - AFL deregistration for "bringing ther game into disrepute". Anything the AFL can do to help the Lions, they will.

[LostDoggy]

For a small country, we certainly have our share of sporting misadventures.
There are 1.5 billion people in China and I think we compete pretty well when it comes to sports scandles.

The Womens Chinese swim team says HI!:)

[The Coon Dog]

The Womens Chinese swim team says HI!:)

The Chinese Women's swim team, I'm sure Fev was trying to impersonate one of them a few Mad Monday's ago!

[LostDoggy]

They didn't, but they will consider the get out clause they were thinking of last time - AFL deregistration for "bringing ther game into disrepute". Anything the AFL can do to help the Lions, they will.

No doubt Brisbane will try (already have) and the afl will do anything in its power to help. If they succeed then it just confirms the aflpa are a load of crap. Afl have some responsibility for making fev who he is.

[LostDoggy]

Afl have some responsibility for making fev who he is.

No They don't.

Would you allow the AFL to claim they they made Chris Grant the person that he is?

Bring it back to basic and its a simple hereditary or environment argument.

Did Chris Grant ever get drunk on New Years Eve, The Brownlow, or Mad Monday. I dare say he did.

[LostDoggy]

The Chinese Women's swim team, I'm sure Fev was trying to impersonate one of them a few Mad Monday's ago!

He had everything going for him except he needed shoulder pads to be more convincing

[Sockeye Salmon]

No They don't.

Would you allow the AFL to claim they they made Chris Grant the person that he is?

Bring it back to basic and its a simple hereditary or environment argument.

Did Chris Grant ever get drunk on New Years Eve, The Brownlow, or Mad Monday. I dare say he did.

Grant was so perfect he probably didn't.

[Topdog]

No They don't.

Would you allow the AFL to claim they they made Chris Grant the person that he is?

Bring it back to basic and its a simple hereditary or environment argument.

Did Chris Grant ever get drunk on New Years Eve, The Brownlow, or Mad Monday. I dare say he did.

Yeah they do. They (probably Carlton more so) allowed him to get away with so much that the line became a blur for him.

[LostDoggy]

No They don't.

Would you allow the AFL to claim they they made Chris Grant the person that he is?

Bring it back to basic and its a simple hereditary or environment argument.

Did Chris Grant ever get drunk on New Years Eve, The Brownlow, or Mad Monday. I dare say he did.

Not sure how Chris grant and fev are related here. A lot Fev's behaviour is a product of his Carlton days and a lack discipline on their behalf and therefore the afl.

[LostDoggy]

Yeah they do. They (probably Carlton more so) allowed him to get away with so much that the line became a blur for him.

Historically all clubs have allowed their stars some leniency as the clubs sucess is directly linked to their on field sucess. I can't remember the details but Ablett Snr basically did what he liked down a Geelong, but only because he continued to deliver the desired on field results.

Its only in recent times that all clubs have had to make a stand and provide a level playing field to all players regardless of their on field value. Collingwood and its treatment of Didak and Shaw during the Finals last year is a good example of this.

Fevola is a product of his own making, who clearly lacks the ability to differentiate between reality and the Bubble with which he lives in as a star AFL player.

To suggest that the AFL, Carlton, or the Lions are guilty of aiding and abetting his crimes is tantamount to agreeing that licensed gun dealer is guilty of manslaughter when his client uses the gun to Kill.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure how Chris grant and fev are related here. A lot Fev's behaviour is a product of his Carlton days and a lack discipline on their behalf and therefore the afl.

I was providing an argument in the reverse sense to yours that the AFL should be held responsible for Fevs actions.

Can the AFL lay claim to Grants exemplary behaviour?

[Topdog]

Historically all clubs have allowed their stars some leniency as the clubs sucess is directly linked to their on field sucess. I can't remember the details but Ablett Snr basically did what he liked down a Geelong, but only because he continued to deliver the desired on field results.

To suggest that the AFL, Carlton, or the Lions are guilty of aiding and abetting his crimes is tantamount to agreeing that licensed gun dealer is guilty of manslaughter when his client uses the gun to Kill.

Its nothing of the sort and you are just being stupid comparing the 2.

Geelong and the AFL both feel guilty for letting Ablett do as he pleased and he is one of the reasons that things are / have been changing.

No one is suggesting that Fev doesn't have to shoulder the majority of the blame but the AFL and Carlton, maybe even Brisbane must take some responsibility for his continued idiocy.

[LostDoggy]

Its nothing of the sort and you are just being stupid comparing the 2.



I'll agree my example is extreme, but the premise of the analogy is far from stupid.



No one is suggesting that Fev doesn't have to shoulder the majority of the blame but the AFL and Carlton, maybe even Brisbane must take some responsibility for his continued idiocy.




The AFL, Carlton, and the Lions have no case to answer in respect of Brendan's Fevolas antics.

[LostDoggy]

I was providing an argument in the reverse sense to yours that the AFL should be held responsible for Fevs actions.

Can the AFL lay claim to Grants exemplary behaviour?

How is Grant the reverse? If one is exemplary than the reverse should be stuffing up all the time and paying for it.
They are both human beings, I'm sure Grant isn't perfect and Fev has done some good things.

I also know that without AFL we wouldn't know who Grant is.

[LostDoggy]

The AFL, Carlton, and the Lions have no case to answer in respect of Brendan's Fevolas antics.

They were happy to feed him(pay him) and well whilst he was a good player and star attraction . If he is so bad then why wasn't disciplined properly by them earlier.

[Ghost Dog]

China doesn't exactly have a comparable open media though - I dare say if they want to cover up a scandel it would be much easier.
We do tend to deify our sports stars more than almost any other country in the world.

Well this is very true. It's like having a society full of papparazi. Everyone has a phone with a camera, twitter and facebook. All you have to do is drink a glass of water before a game like G. Ablett did and everyone is on your case.

[Ghost Dog]

The Womens Chinese swim team says HI!:)

Yes but they do it to WIN.
Baker, Lenny Hayes, Fev,Ben cousins, say hello back.
Their antics are hardly performance enhancing!

[Ghost Dog]

The Womens Chinese swim team says HI!:)

Haha - quite right. But hey, at least they are trying to win!
Baker, Lenny Hayes, Fev,Ben cousins, say hello back.
Their antics are hardly performance enhancing!

[LostDoggy]

How is Grant the reverse? If one is exemplary than the reverse should be stuffing up all the time and paying for it.
They are both human beings, I'm sure Grant isn't perfect and Fev has done some good things.

I also know that without AFL we wouldn't know who Grant is.

I'll try one more time.

If the AFL are to be held responsible for Fevola's behaviour then my argument is that they should also be lauded for making Chris Grant a Model AFL Citizen as well.

My under lying argument here is that Chris Grant has an intrinsic set of morals and values (perhaps instilled in him by his parents) that enable him to function and work within the AFL behavioural guidelines easily.

Conversely IMO Brendan Fevola does not and that his own existing personal values and ethics allow him to continually cross the line.

I agree with oyu however that without the AFL we woudl not know who Chris Grant is, unless of course you were a member of the Daylesford Doggies

[Mofra]

Well this is very true. It's like having a society full of papparazi. Everyone has a phone with a camera, twitter and facebook. All you have to do is drink a glass of water before a game like G. Ablett did and everyone is on your case.
Or, if you're a coach, eat a sandwich a la Mark Thompson - I still can't believe the media went into a frenzy about a freaking sandwich.

[LostDoggy]

They were happy to feed him(pay him) and well whilst he was a good player and star attraction . If he is so bad then why wasn't disciplined properly by them earlier.

I would argue that he was disciplined by both Carlton, Brisbane, and the AFL to the extent that they could under the terms of his contract or the club/AFL guidelines.

If my memory serves me correctly I believe that when he got into trouble over in Ireland he was immediately sent home (not sure about a fine?). From memory he was also fined and suspended for a period of time for urinating on the window.

I actually feel sorry for Carlton and Brisbane, they are the ones that have and will suffer the most.

If it were the eave of the Finals and Barry Hall gets caught urinating on Jimmy Wongs window in Footscray and the club suspend him for the remainder of the season, who do you think suffer the most.

Barry, or the Club?

[LostDoggy]

I'll try one more time.

If the AFL are to be held responsible for Fevola's behaviour then my argument is that they should also be lauded for making Chris Grant a Model AFL Citizen as well.

My under lying argument here is that Chris Grant has an intrinsic set of morals and values (perhaps instilled in him by his parents) that enable him to function and work within the AFL behavioural guidelines easily.

Conversely IMO Brendan Fevola does not and that his own existing personal values and ethics allow him to continually cross the line.

I agree with oyu however that without the AFL we woudl not know who Chris Grant is, unless of course you were a member of the Daylesford Doggies

Firstly I never said that AFL were fully responsible for who Fevola is. Just believe the AFL didn't act strongly enoiugh and also helped his transfer to Brisbane.
Just like everyone, you are product of the environments you are in, be it your family, friends, work and no doubt AFL environment have some influence on who Fev is.
Your Chris Grant example I don't understand.

[LostDoggy]

I would argue that he was disciplined by both Carlton, Brisbane, and the AFL to the extent that they could under the terms of his contract or the club/AFL guidelines.
Who said he wasn't disciplined? I just say he obviously wasn't disciplined enough and/or didn't get the message(both his and the clubs/afl fault).


If my memory serves me correctly I believe that when he got into trouble over in Ireland he was immediately sent home (not sure about a fine?). From memory he was also fined and suspended for a period of time for urinating on the window.
That trip to Ireland is a reward in the first place. A OS booze fest. A fine would have to be huge otherwise its a slap on the wrist to players rumoured to be 900K.

How many games did Fev miss for the urination event? My guess is 0.

I actually feel sorry for Carlton and Brisbane, they are the ones that have and will suffer the most.
Sorry? Why? They are the stupid one. 14 others steered clear because they knew what he was like and his asking price. Carlton raised him from a 17yo and could have nipped him in the bud years back.
I'm sorry/jealous he kicked goals against us cos he is very talented when on his game.


If it were the eave of the Finals and Barry Hall gets caught urinating on Jimmy Wongs window in Footscray and the club suspend him for the remainder of the season, who do you think suffer the most.

Barry, or the Club?
There you go again with hypotheticals that aren't real or relevent.

You want something real? Then use Akers situation at the club. Do you think the club did the right thing? We mighted have suffered short term but its for the better of the club and therefore we suffer less long term.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I would argue that he was disciplined by both Carlton, Brisbane, and the AFL to the extent that they could under the terms of his contract or the club/AFL guidelines.

If my memory serves me correctly I believe that when he got into trouble over in Ireland he was immediately sent home (not sure about a fine?). From memory he was also fined and suspended for a period of time for urinating on the window.

I actually feel sorry for Carlton and Brisbane, they are the ones that have and will suffer the most.

If it were the eave of the Finals and Barry Hall gets caught urinating on Jimmy Wongs window in Footscray and the club suspend him for the remainder of the season, who do you think suffer the most.

Barry, or the Club?

This is where the Shaw/Didak thing last year gets interesting.

Sure there was pain for Collingwood at the time but both have since come out and just about had career best years and they won the flag.

[Topdog]

I'll try one more time.

If the AFL are to be held responsible for Fevola's behaviour then my argument is that they should also be lauded for making Chris Grant a Model AFL Citizen as well.

My under lying argument here is that Chris Grant has an intrinsic set of morals and values (perhaps instilled in him by his parents) that enable him to function and work within the AFL behavioural guidelines easily.

Conversely IMO Brendan Fevola does not and that his own existing personal values and ethics allow him to continually cross the line.

I agree with oyu however that without the AFL we woudl not know who Chris Grant is, unless of course you were a member of the Daylesford Doggies

Here we go again with more pointless and completely irrelevant crap. Fev was always given a slap on the hand whilst others (Angwin comes to mind) were given the whip. If they had treated everyone equally we may not be in this situation.

Fev must take the majority of the blame but Carlton and the AFL are not victims here.

Edit: Excellent example Sockeye.

[LostDoggy]

Here we go again with more pointless and completely irrelevant crap. Fev was always given a slap on the hand whilst others (Angwin comes to mind) were given the whip. If they had treated everyone equally we may not be in this situation.

Fev must take the majority of the blame but Carlton and the AFL are not victims here.

Edit: Excellent example Sockeye.

I believe that I have articulated on several occasion the relevance and point of my argument about Chris Grant and I accept that you don't agree, however request that also respect my point of view.

Laurence Angwin was sacked immediately from the club for Turing up to his place of employment under the influence of an illicit drug which I can only assume allows for an immediate summary dismissal under the terms of his contract, unlike Brendan Fevola who effectively has committed a string of misdemeanors under the influence of a legal and socially acceptable drug.

[LostDoggy]

You want something real? Then use Akers situation at the club. Do you think the club did the right thing? We might have suffered short term but its for the better of the club and therefore we suffer less long term.

Yes I believe the club did the right thing but I don't believe we suffered on the field, only off(luckily).

Case in point however, should the club have sacked him after the handstand incident?. If we had of it would have prevented the other issues from occurring in the future.

Even if his contract allowed for termination for breaking an unwritten club rule, I don't think they would have. Once again, at that point the club had more to loose by letting him go than did from addressing the issue and applying the leading teams principles.

[LostDoggy]

Handstand incident? Hardly a sacking offense. We sacked him at the right time. We knew what Aker was like so it's our fault for recruiting him then crying foul when he stuffed up.
We played a debutant in the finals,you don't think Aker could have done as good or better?

[LostDoggy]

Angwin was sacked cos he wasn't good and at his 2nd club. His co accused got let off somewhat cos he showed more promise. Fev was a star had he got caught it would have been a slap.

[LostDoggy]

Handstand incident? Hardly a sacking offense. We sacked him at the right time.

Agreed


We played a debutant in the finals,you don't think Aker could have done as good or better?

To respond would be to Hypothesis, so I'll say maybe:)

[LostDoggy]

Fev was a star had he got caught it would have been a slap.


There you go again with hypotheticals that aren't real or relevent.



You could in fact be right, but neither of us will ever know

[Ghost Dog]

Well, how much is AFL to blame
How much is he to blame?
How much is Carlton to blame?
What about Brisbane?

For me, Fevola 100% responsible at this point. His time at Carlton was ages ago and he should have learned by now.

However, he may look back in the future and find it has been a valuable experience for him.
This latest stint may even save him some more serious issue in the future.
Take a break mate. Get your life together. Footy is not all their is to life.

Shaw and Didak are interesting examples SSalmon.

[Twodogs]

Laurence Angwin was sacked immediately from the club for Turing up to his place of employment under the influence of an illicit drug which I can only assume allows for an immediate summary dismissal under the terms of his contract, unlike Brendan Fevola who effectively has committed a string of misdemeanors under the influence of a legal and socially acceptable drug.


Then how come Karl Norman who turned up to the same training session under the effect of the same drug got a different punishment?

And how is alchohol a socially acceptable drug when it becomes a problem like it did for Fev? Just because alchohol is partially legal doesnt mean it's any less damaging to those who have a problem with it. If it is OK because it's acceptable then organisations lke AA wouldnt have anything to do.

The whole legal/illegal drug thing doesnt wash with me. Alchohol can be just as devestating as heroin to a problem user.

[LostDoggy]

And how is alchohol a socially acceptable drug when it becomes a problem like it did for Fev? Just because alchohol is partially legal doesnt mean it's any less damaging to those who have a problem with it. If it is OK because it's acceptable then organisations lke AA wouldnt have anything to do.

The whole legal/illegal drug thing doesnt wash with me. Alchohol can be just as devestating as heroin to a problem user.

Social acceptability and problem users are two different things and this is now so far off topic I will leave it at that, except to say that the last time I had a drink it was in the company of four generation of my family and I was not at all castigated for my actions.:)

I would however like to refute your claim that Alcohol is partially legal, however I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you may have been referring to the sale of alcohol to minors.

[Topdog]

No it is still partially legal. There are kinds of alcohol that cannot be bought or sold in Aus.

To put it in an easier fashion, Wayne Britton wanted to sack Fev. Carlton sacked Britton.

[Ghost Dog]

No it is still partially legal. There are kinds of alcohol that cannot be bought or sold in Aus.

To put it in an easier fashion, Wayne Britton wanted to sack Fev. Carlton sacked Britton.

Did he? I guess he was just too popular at the time, when that's all Carlton fans had to turn up for.

[LostDoggy]

No it is still partially legal. There are kinds of alcohol that cannot be bought or sold in Aus.


Your right and its also partially legal to drive a car, marry your wife, Walk across the road, and excercise your freedom of speach at the airport check in counter in Australia,

Now I have finished clutching the straws, so you can have them back:p

[Topdog]

Not sure why I am bothering if you cannot differentiate between a drug and walking across the road. I personally like some of the alcohol you cannot obtain in Australia and had a great time drinking it previously.

[Topdog]

Did he? I guess he was just too popular at the time, when that's all Carlton fans had to turn up for.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/i-tried-to-get-rid-of-fev-former-carlton-coach-wayne-brittain-reveals/story-e6frf9jf-1225916818727

[LostDoggy]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/i-tried-to-get-rid-of-fev-former-carlton-coach-wayne-brittain-reveals/story-e6frf9jf-1225916818727

Wayne Brittains comments support my argument, and even goes as far as to cover off the heredity and environment analogy I made with Chris Grant.

"With Fev it was not going to make any difference," Brittain said yesterday. "Early days when they are young there is no doubt their upbringing can be blamed for how they are.

"But eventually you have to take responsibility for yourself.

"He was never able to do that. He still thinks he is bulletproof, a big kid who can get away with anything. Life just does not go that way. You have to have a few morals you are supposed to live by. He struggles with that."



Your Honour, permission to approach the bench.


I rest my case

[aker39]

"He was never able to do that. He still thinks he is bulletproof, a big kid who can get away with anything. Life just does not go that way. You have to have a few morals you are supposed to live by. He struggles with that."



Why do you think that Fev still thinks he's bulletproof.

[LostDoggy]

Why do you think that Fev still thinks he's bulletproof.

I don't necessarily, those comments are Wayne Brittains not mine.

I do however believe that Fev cannot distinguish between real life and that of the "Bubble" that AFL stars all live in. I guess this is akin to thinking that he may be bulletproof

[Topdog]

Wayne Brittains comments support my argument, and even goes as far as to cover off the heredity and environment analogy I made with Chris Grant.

"With Fev it was not going to make any difference," Brittain said yesterday. "Early days when they are young there is no doubt their upbringing can be blamed for how they are.

"But eventually you have to take responsibility for yourself.

"He was never able to do that. He still thinks he is bulletproof, a big kid who can get away with anything. Life just does not go that way. You have to have a few morals you are supposed to live by. He struggles with that."

Your Honour, permission to approach the bench.

I rest my case

Of course you need to have a few morals and also need to grow up. No one in here has said Fev is faultless.

Actually lets back right up here. What exactly is "your argument"??

Brittain tried to do the right thing and was overthrown by a club who loved Fev and contributed to his bulletproof attitude. How can you not see that?

[Topdog]

I do however believe that Fev cannot distinguish between real life and that of the "Bubble" that AFL stars all live in. I guess this is akin to thinking that he may is bullet proof

And do you think that being properly disciplined can help in such situations?

[aker39]

I don't necessarily, those comments are Wayne Brittains not mine.



No, they are not your words, but you rest your case based on those words.

[LostDoggy]

Actually lets back right up here. What exactly is "your argument"??




My initially argument was directed at Chops who suggested that the AFL had some accountability for Fevola behaviour and or situation.

I believe they do not, and the remainder of other posts (except for where you and I got off track) were simply my posturings on the topic.

[LostDoggy]

And do you think that being properly disciplined can help in such situations?

Yes - but the Fevs own intrinsic set of values combined with the AFL "bubble" he lives in are always going to conspire against him.

Whereas conversely, someone of Chris Grant character under the same circumstance and repercussions would have been able to straighten up.

[LostDoggy]

No, they are not your words, but you rest your case based on those words.

If you have read my other posts in this thread, then yes your Honour, I do.

[LostDoggy]

Why do you think that Fev still thinks he's bulletproof.

Brendan had Club minders who escorted him home on NYE , it was his decision to then leave home , his decision to continue to consume alcohol , his decision to be aggressive and verbally threaten the Police who approached him

This was a deliberate act of defiance against his Club, he was told to stay in Brisbane for NYE , he was told he would have minders ,and he was escorted home about 12.30.

He would have had a clear understanding that he would be required to behave himself , the fact that he was under the influence of alcohol and aggressive towards Police at 4.30am demonstrates a blatant disregard for his employer and the Behavioral Guidelines which he was expected to abide by

The AFL would not be making a scapegoat or an example of Brendan by de-listing him, he has a documented history of bringing the game into disrepute

.

[Sockeye Salmon]

To put it in an easier fashion, Wayne Britton wanted to sack Fev. Carlton sacked Britton.

Ken Judge wanted to sack Michael Gardiner because he thought Gardiner was a bad influence on Ben Cousins.

Trevor Nesbitt sacked Ken Judge instead.

[ledge]

Brendan had Club minders who escorted him home on NYE , it was his decision to then leave home , his decision to continue to consume alcohol , his decision to be aggressive and verbally threaten the Police who approached him

This was a deliberate act of defiance against his Club, he was told to stay in Brisbane for NYE , he was told he would have minders ,and he was escorted home about 12.30.

He would have had a clear understanding that he would be required to behave himself , the fact that he was under the influence of alcohol and aggressive towards Police at 4.30am demonstrates a blatant disregard for his employer and the Behavioral Guidelines which he was expected to abide by

The AFL would not be making a scapegoat or an example of Brendan by de-listing him, he has a documented history of bringing the game into disrepute

.

I agree he is 27? a father, someone under a microscope but still acts like an idiot, he is totally to blame now.
The lions have no blame in this but to make the mistake of believing whatever story his manager told them when he was looking for another club.
The major problem the lions have is not having to pay out but to still have his wage included in the salary cap.
Its time the AFL put its foot down and kicked him out of the AFL allowing the lions to get the wage they were paying allowed in the salary cap again.
The Lions in my opinion were trying to give a bloke with great abillity in footy another chance but alas Fev is a complete nuff nuff.

[LostDoggy]

Brendan had Club minders who escorted him home on NYE , it was his decision to then leave home , his decision to continue to consume alcohol , his decision to be aggressive and verbally threaten the Police who approached him

This was a deliberate act of defiance against his Club, he was told to stay in Brisbane for NYE , he was told he would have minders ,and he was escorted home about 12.30.

He would have had a clear understanding that he would be required to behave himself , the fact that he was under the influence of alcohol and aggressive towards Police at 4.30am demonstrates a blatant disregard for his employer and the Behavioral Guidelines which he was expected to abide by

The AFL would not be making a scapegoat or an example of Brendan by de-listing him, he has a documented history of bringing the game into disrepute

.

I don't understand if they didn't want Fev to go out and get drunk then why did Brisbane make it an easy option for him. The slipping his minders excuse is BS, he isn't James Bond. They have been trying since the EOS to get any excuse to delist and not pay him out.

[ledge]

I don't understand if they didn't want Fev to go out and get drunk then why did Brisbane make it an easy option for him. The slipping his minders excuse is BS, he isn't James Bond. They have been trying since the EOS to get any excuse to delist and not pay him out.

And HE is doing his best to be sacked!

[Twodogs]

I agree he is 27?



Fev is 29 and will be 30 in two weeks.

[Ghost Dog]

Brendan had Club minders who escorted him home on NYE , it was his decision to then leave home , his decision to continue to consume alcohol , his decision to be aggressive and verbally threaten the Police who approached him


.

With their salary cap in mind, maybe the Lions left a few cases of scotch outside his house just to encourage him a bit?
Meh...Has it coming. Mouth off at police and see how far that gets you.

[LostDoggy]

And HE is doing his best to be sacked!

I doubt he wants to be sacked.

[LostDoggy]

My initially argument was directed at Chops who suggested that the AFL had some accountability for Fevola behaviour and or situation.


So the AFL inviting Fev, a know trouble maker at the time, to what is really is an EOS piss up in Ireland not asking for trouble?

[ledge]

I doubt he wants to be sacked.

Well if he doesnt want to be sacked why is he being sooo stupid?

[LostDoggy]

Well if he doesnt want to be sacked why is he being sooo stupid?

I suppose because he knows its not that easy to be just sacked. He isn't that stupid really.

[Desipura]

Well if he doesnt want to be sacked why is he being sooo stupid?

Perhaps because he has an illness being an alcoholic and has a gambling addiction
It's like telling the husband to stop getting drunk every night if he wants to save his marriage and risk losing almost everything. Sometimes the penny just does not drop for some

[GVGjr]

Perhaps because he has an illness being an alcoholic and has a gambling addiction
It's like telling the husband to stop getting drunk every night if he wants to save his marriage and risk losing almost everything. Sometimes the penny just does not drop for some

I used to just think he was the boy who just never grew up but now I'm convinced he has a problem that just can't be solved by people just pointing out his mistakes.

The Lions can argue that his problems are increased by the fact that he is away from his family and therefore canceling his contract and allowing him to head home might actually be in his long term best interest. He needs professional assistance and a better form of supervision than an AFL club can reasonably provide.

[Desipura]

I used to just think he was the boy who just never grew up but now I'm convinced he has a problem that just can't be solved by people just pointing out his mistakes.

The Lions can argue that his problems are increased by the fact that he is away from his family and therefore canceling his contract and allowing him to head home might actually be in his long term best interest. He needs professional assistance and a better form of supervision than an AFL club can reasonably provide.

I am of the same opinion, hence why I am not like a large majority who thinks he is a dick head and that is all there is to it. It's deeper than that and I fear how he will live life if/when his footy career has ended.

[GVGjr]

I am of the same opinion, hence why I am not like a large majority who thinks he is a dick head and that is all there is to it. It's deeper than that and I fear how he will live life if/
When his footy career is finished.

It certainly started with him being a dickhead and having virtually zero consequences for his extremely poor behaviour over a number of years was the main contributor but I think he wants to get on the right track now and doesn't have the skills to do so. It starts with the drink and escalates from there.

[aker39]

It certainly started with him being a dickhead and having virtually zero consequences for his extremely poor behaviour over a number of years was the main contributor but I think he wants to get on the right track now and doesn't have the skills to do so. It starts with the drink and escalates from there.

It started in his 1st years at Carton when he ran amok through the Maribrynong detention centre with a fire extinguisher

[Ghost Dog]

Pack him off over here to China. Nothing like a bit of surrounding poverty to give one perspective. Serious. Trip to nepal or Vietnam followed by a stint in some local schools would do him good.

[GVGjr]

It started in his 1st years at Carton when he ran amok through the Maribrynong detention centre with a fire extinguisher

and he was a problem child before he got to Carlton.

[Twodogs]

Perhaps because he has an illness being an alcoholic and has a gambling addiction
It's like telling the husband to stop getting drunk every night if he wants to save his marriage and risk losing almost everything. Sometimes the penny just does not drop for some


This.


I know from personal experiemce how important your addiction becomes. If, as is being reported, Fev is an alcoholic then having a drink becomes more important than anything. Family, friends, career. Everything eventually becomes an impediment to that one overriding goal in life. Due to his disease a addict will just consume whatever their poison is to the point of destruction.

Addiction is a discease that cant be cured. It can be controlled thugh. A bit like diabetes sufferers of addiction have to choose to be cured themselves. Noone can make that choice and it's mostly only when the addict themself makes that choice.

[Desipura]

and he was a problem child before he got to Carlton.
Sure was, I can recall watching a documentary about young draftees, Fev and Des Headland were on, you could tell that Fev was a problem child.
He spoke about not having a Dad growing up, that is one thing I remember him mentioning.

[LostDoggy]

Problem child like many kids 16/17yo are?
Being in an environment were instead of being punished properly/taught the right way/helped has more to do with his problems now than what he was like as a 16/17yo. Kids grow up, but if there is no reason to then no wonder he didn't.

Also I thought Fev has a dad still alive.

[LostDoggy]

This.


I know from personal experiemce how important your addiction becomes. If, as is being reported, Fev is an alcoholic then having a drink becomes more important than anything. Family, friends, career. Everything eventually becomes an impediment to that one overriding goal in life. Due to his disease a addict will just consume whatever their poison is to the point of destruction.

Addiction is a discease that cant be cured. It can be controlled thugh. A bit like diabetes sufferers of addiction have to choose to be cured themselves. Noone can make that choice and it's mostly only when the addict themself makes that choice.

I agree with your sentiments here

[Mofra]

It started in his 1st years at Carton when he ran amok through the Maribrynong detention centre with a fire extinguisher
Started earlier than that - he got away with everything at school and treated his childhood sweetheart (who is a lovely girl) like shit.
The alcohlism/gambling seem to be as much symptoms of a narcissistic personality as he has never been shown boundaries and lacks the ability to devlop them on his own.
Personally I think he is a massive wanker but he does have problems and, arguably, the support network available within the AFL is better placed to help him deal with them than he would be on his own.

It would be interesting to know what support he has now and has been offered in the past by the AFLPA, and if they would continue to assist him after deregistration.

[Desipura]

Problem child like many kids 16/17yo are?
Being in an environment were instead of being punished properly/taught the right way/helped has more to do with his problems now than what he was like as a 16/17yo. Kids grow up, but if there is no reason to then no wonder he didn't.

Also I thought Fev has a dad still alive.

He may well be alive, not sure he played a part in his life though.

[KT31]

Problem child like many kids 16/17yo are?
Being in an environment were instead of being punished properly/taught the right way/helped has more to do with his problems now than what he was like as a 16/17yo. Kids grow up, but if there is no reason to then no wonder he didn't.

Also I thought Fev has a dad still alive.


Desipura
He may well be alive, not sure he played a part in his life though.

Or maybe the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Greystache]

Started earlier than that - he got away with everything at school and treated his childhood sweetheart (who is a lovely girl) like shit.
The alcohlism/gambling seem to be as much symptoms of a narcissistic personality as he has never been shown boundaries and lacks the ability to devlop them on his own.
Personally I think he is a massive wanker but he does have problems and, arguably, the support network available within the AFL is better placed to help him deal with them than he would be on his own.

It would be interesting to know what support he has now and has been offered in the past by the AFLPA, and if they would continue to assist him after deregistration.

Definitely sounds like that. If anyone has read Adam Ramanauskas' book Nine Lives, early on he talks about playing at the Dandenong Stingrays and some of the guys there. He was saying that it's a really strict environment where they don't tolerate individuals, and if you don't tow the line you get the arse. Except for one guy who was lazy, wouldn't train, and was constantly in trouble, but he was such a talent they made an exception for him- Sure enough, it was Fevola.

[Ghost Dog]

Definitely sounds like that. If anyone has read Adam Ramanauskas' book Nine Lives, early on he talks about playing at the Dandenong Stingrays and some of the guys there. He was saying that it's a really strict environment where they don't tolerate individuals, and if you don't tow the line you get the arse. Except for one guy who was lazy, wouldn't train, and was constantly in trouble, but he was such a talent they made an exception for him- Sure enough, it was Fevola.

So much for not tolerating individuals eh? So it goes.

[ledge]

So he has been a problem all his life and now we say its the drink and gambling because thats his latest errors or is he like Aker and blames everyone but himself?
From all I am reading here its not the drink and gambling if he was a problem as a child.
Its just continued into drinking and gambling.
Spoilt brat sounds more like it.

[Ghost Dog]

Anyone here ever met him?

Any psychologists here with interesting views?

His facial expressions during press conferences or outside of police stations smack of someone not really contrite.
Almost sense a little bit of the naughty boy still not really aware of the shit storm coming into the window.

[AndrewP6]

So he has been a problem all his life and now we say its the drink and gambling because thats his latest errors or is he like Aker and blames everyone but himself?
From all I am reading here its not the drink and gambling if he was a problem as a child.
Its just continued into drinking and gambling.
Spoilt brat sounds more like it.

It's no excuse, but maybe being a spoilt brat enabled him easy access to large amounts of money and therefore the substances which he obviously has so much trouble with. Watching the Ben Cousins doco gives one a similar impression - having everything, and eventually not being able to say no to certain things when introduced to them. Many have noted similar things about Cousins, and his apparent lack of remorse or contrition. I'm no expert (maybe there's a WOOFer who is!), but I have heard that addiction isn't an instant thing, it develops over time. If he has an addictive personality, ready sources of cash, that could lead to the excessive behaviours recently seen. I know I've already said it, but I feel sorry for him.

[Ghost Dog]

It's no excuse, but maybe being a spoilt brat enabled him easy access to large amounts of money and therefore the substances which he obviously has so much trouble with. Watching the Ben Cousins doco gives one a similar impression - having everything, and eventually not being able to say no to certain things when introduced to them. Many have noted similar things about Cousins, and his apparent lack of remorse or contrition. I'm no expert (maybe there's a WOOFer who is!), but I have heard that addiction isn't an instant thing, it develops over time. If he has an addictive personality, ready sources of cash, that could lead to the excessive behaviours recently seen. I know I've already said it, but I feel sorry for him.


this is the reality he has created for himself and where he needs to be. Have it out in the open. Who knows what second catastrophe this could have averted? Drink driving incident for example.

If he wants to look at it this way, it could be a real opportunity.
Imagine the alcohol counsellor he would make once he recovers ( if) might look back and think this was the turning pointon to the right track - hope so

[Ghost Dog]

It's no excuse, but maybe being a spoilt brat enabled him easy access to large amounts of money and therefore the substances which he obviously has so much trouble with. Watching the Ben Cousins doco gives one a similar impression - having everything, and eventually not being able to say no to certain things when introduced to them. Many have noted similar things about Cousins, and his apparent lack of remorse or contrition. I'm no expert (maybe there's a WOOFer who is!), but I have heard that addiction isn't an instant thing, it develops over time. If he has an addictive personality, ready sources of cash, that could lead to the excessive behaviours recently seen. I know I've already said it, but I feel sorry for him.

The gambling thing is the more dangerous thing of the two IMO. Wonder how much he is in hock?

[Twodogs]

is he like Aker and blames everyone but himself?




It's more a case of the guilt associated with letting those that love him down. That and resenting those who have tried to stop/help him getting that drink or having that bet.

Deep down addicts carry a deep shame and blame themselves. It's not until you acknowledge you have an illness you have no control over that you start to recover and blame hinders that process.

With all the therapy and counselling Fev has received I'm sure he is aware of this.

[Twodogs]

BTW Aker isnt an addict or at least he's never displayed it in public.

My personal and uninformed opinion is that Aker displays an antisocial personality disorder. APD is the new term for sociopath.

From my reading on the subject Aker displays some of the following traits;



Identification

# People with antisocial personality disorder perceive the world differently than most people do and may not have the range of feelings that others have. Because they cannot relate to others, they have no trouble lying or violating the rights of other people in order to achieve their goals. Some of these people are very charming and adept at manipulating others, while others may use violence or intimidation to get what they want.

Behavior

# People who have antisocial personality disorder are skilled liars and often quite good at conning other people. They may be aggressive but show no remorse if they hurt other people. Sociopaths often react impulsively, failing to consider how their actions could harm themselves or others. Many have no respect for authority and have a history of losing jobs and being expelled from school.*


Read more: The Definition of a Sociopath | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5067762_definition-sociopath.html#ixzz1AFsH9KOM



*I have removed some of this text. THe passages I edited out were not relevent to this post. If you want to read the whole text click on the link.

[AndrewP6]

The gambling thing is the more dangerous thing of the two IMO. Wonder how much he is in hock?

Media has speculated it's six figures, but that's all it is - speculation.

[LostDoggy]

TwoDogs, I agree with you. Having had experience with 12 Step programs, it would appear that Fev easily falls into an addictive cycle, and perhaps it doesn't matter what it is - alcohol, gambling (I believe you can be addicted to almost anything). IMO, it is a disease, and he obviously needs help. However, until an addict makes the decision for themselves (and it is usually when they hit rock bottom, i.e., lose everything important in their lives) to get help, no matter how people try and guide him, etc.,things may change for a short time, but then they will crash again. It needs to be his decision, and him admitting to himself (and others) that he has a problem. This is a very tough thing to do, and takes a degree of growing up!

[Daughter of the West]

TwoDogs, I agree with you. Having had experience with 12 Step programs, it would appear that Fev easily falls into an addictive cycle, and perhaps it doesn't matter what it is - alcohol, gambling (I believe you can be addicted to almost anything). IMO, it is a disease, and he obviously needs help. However, until an addict makes the decision for themselves (and it is usually when they hit rock bottom, i.e., lose everything important in their lives) to get help, no matter how people try and guide him, etc.,things may change for a short time, but then they will crash again. It needs to be his decision, and him admitting to himself (and others) that he has a problem. This is a very tough thing to do, and takes a degree of growing up!

The sad thing is, IMO I don't think he's hit his true rock bottom yet, and therefore can't truly utilise any of the help that's been offerred to him. As MG pointed out, you can throw all the resources you like at the guy, but until he decides to pick up the ball and run with it (pardon the pun), it's no good. Not sure what it would take for that day though...

My heart goes out to his poor kids, what the hell would they make of all this?

[Ghost Dog]

R. Conolly " it might well be a dickhead who can help win you a flag."

At what price?

When all said and done., no flag is worth a broken family

[The Adelaide Connection]

this is the reality he has created for himself and where he needs to be. Have it out in the open. Who knows what second catastrophe this could have averted? Drink driving incident for example.

If he wants to look at it this way, it could be a real opportunity. Imagine the alcohol counsellor he would make once he recovers ( if) might look back and think this was the turning pointon to the right track - hope so

Spot on. There are bigger, more important things than football and Fev could end up being someone that is able to work with other troubled souls and really impact their lives. I think that will be a way biggerand more important than if he can kick 70 goals for a club in 2012.

I knew a girl that was completely off the rails in high school and I heard that she really did hit rock bottom. She is now extremely healthy and happy and works with troubled teens and from all reports is quite inspirational.

[ledge]

Spot on. There are bigger, more important things than football and Fev could end up being someone that is able to work with other troubled souls and really impact their lives. I think that will be a way biggerand more important than if he can kick 70 goals for a club in 2012.

I knew a girl that was completely off the rails in high school and I heard that she really did hit rock bottom. She is now extremely healthy and happy and works with troubled teens and from all reports is quite inspirational.

17 year old and from StKilda??:D

[Ghost Dog]

So they have the wooden spoon. We need the equivalent for the brownlow. For unbecoming behaviour throughout the season. The innugaral Fevola medal

[aker39]

Alex Fevola has now applied for an intervention order.

[bornadog]

Alex Fevola has now applied for an intervention order.

Wow, does this mean he has no access to the kids as well.

[aker39]

He was also seen at a pub in Berwick playing the pokies this morning.

No matter how big of a dickhead he has been, he really needs help now. My concern is that he really has no support network, and that is what he will need to get over this.

[Maddog37]

This could get very messy. He has already talked about suicidal thoughts and acted on them.

He now has no management, no access to kids and is not allowed to gamble.

Hope his family is watching him like a Hawk.

[Twodogs]

He was also seen at a pub in Berwick playing the pokies this morning.

No matter how big of a dickhead he has been, he really needs help now. My concern is that he really has no support network, and that is what he will need to get over this.


Yep, agree fully with that. Dickhead or not he clearly needs help. A need's a role model or a mentor. Someone like David Schwartz perhaps, who has been there and has the T-shirt to prove it. Then again Fev doesnt seem to very good at listening. The whole "I sacked my management" stuff yesterday was all a bit immature.

He clearly hasnt hit rock bottom yet.

[The Underdog]

Yep, agree fully with that. Dickhead or not he clearly needs help. A need's a role model or a mentor. Someone like David Schwartz perhaps, who has been there and has the T-shirt to prove it. Then again Fev doesnt seem to very good at listening. The whole "I sacked my management" stuff yesterday was all a bit immature.

He clearly hasnt hit rock bottom yet.

Maybe not, but he can see it from where he is that's for sure

[Twodogs]

Maybe not, but he can see it from where he is that's for sure


I came off a motorbike at 100 K's once. The thing I really remember is the roadsurface coming closer and closer to my face.

That's how Fev must be feeling at the moment.

[Ghost Dog]

I came off a motorbike at 100 K's once. The thing I really remember is the roadsurface coming closer and closer to my face.

That's how Fev must be feeling at the moment.

Very Nasty. Seriously hurt? Still Riding?
Says in the paper David Schwartz agreed to meet Fev a few times but he never turned up. So it goes.

[Twodogs]

Very Nasty. Seriously hurt? Still Riding?

It was. The worst thing was it was a mate's pride and joy (Triumph 750cc) and he was on the back. The bike came out of it a lot better than us. I had a badly ****ed up knee, broken nose and scars on my chin and arm that are still visible to this day-the accident was in '93. Funny thing was I sat on the curb and lit a ciggy, tried to draw and no smoke was coming out. Looked down and the cigarette was covered in blood from my nose!

Have been on a tentative ride a few times since.



Says in the paper David Schwartz agreed to meet Fev a few times but he never turned up. So it goes.

Doesnt suprise me. I suspect he doesnt know how close to the cliff face he is and he wont realise until he tips over the other side. That's when he'll need his support network and the danger is they will have had enough because they have heard it all before.

[AndrewP6]

I'm going to the aforementioned pub (The Berwick Inn) for dinner tonight. I'll keep a lookout for him! ;)

[Topdog]

He came out and said his only problem is with the horses so pokies are ok. Clearly still delusional.

[LostDoggy]

Well his real problem is he is an idiot, the rest depression, alcohol, betting, womanizing, etc are just side issues.

[Mofra]

He came out and said his only problem is with the horses so pokies are ok. Clearly still delusional.
That is unbelieveable from someone who spent nigh on 2 months in rehab.
If he has an addictive personality there is no half measure, especially with gambling. He's kidding himself.

[Twodogs]

He came out and said his only problem is with the horses so pokies are ok. Clearly still delusional.


That is unbelieveable from someone who spent nigh on 2 months in rehab.
If he has an addictive personality there is no half measure, especially with gambling. He's kidding himself.

That get's back to my point about his trouble with listening. He keeps coming back to this idea that because it was the ponie's that he got into trouble with, therefore all other forms of gambling are OK. I even heard him claim that a counseller told him it woud be therapeutic for him to indulge in forms of gambling that didnt involve betting on the horses.

Clearly he either picks and chooses the advice he wants to hear and rejects the advice he doesnt like the sound of that counseller was an idiot and shouldnt be in a position of offering advice.

KB made a good point this morning when he said that Fev has really run off the rails since Dick Pratt died. Maybe Pratt was a good influence on Fev?

[bornadog]

That get's back to my point about his trouble with listening. He keeps coming back to this idea that because it was the ponie's that he got into trouble with, therefore all other forms of gambling are OK. I even heard him claim that a counseller told him it would be therapeutic for him to indulge in forms of gambling that didnt involve betting on the horses.

Clearly he either picks and chooses the advice he wants to hear and rejects the advice he doesnt like the sound of that counseller was an idiot and shouldnt be in a position of offering advice.

KB made a good point this morning when he said that Fev has really run off the rails since Dick Pratt died. Maybe Pratt was a good influence on Fev?

You mean the same guy that had two Mistresses one an ex prostitute.

[LostDoggy]

He came out and said his only problem is with the horses so pokies are ok. Clearly still delusional.

Online Poker is his main vice now, and he can play that without anyone knowing. If you were to believe a poster in the BF poker board about 18 months ago, via a product called sharkscope he was able to determine some exceptionally large losses.

I cant remember his online player name, however from memory it was made up of part of this name and jumper number at carlton

[Twodogs]

BTW I'd hate to be a gambling addict. It seems that everywhere you turn there's a gaming outlet shoving their sevices down your throat. It's almost seems unAustralian not to bet.

At least with drugs it's relatively easy to choose to avoid friends or places who indulge in coke/speed/heroin/pot. But it's almost impossible to avoid gambling of some form in this country. Every workplace has a footy tipping comp and Melbourne cup sweeps, every pub is a defacto TAB outlet, there's ads for sportsbetting agencys on TV or radio or in the written press. I dont have a problem ignoring them but if I was an addict I just dont know how I'd cope.

[LostDoggy]

KB made a good point this morning when he said that Fev has really run off the rails since Dick Pratt died. Maybe Pratt was a good influence on Fev?
:)
Is KB pointing out that like Dick Pratt, he used to get away with it? Or someone to pay out the problems?

[Topdog]

Online Poker is his main vice now, and he can play that without anyone knowing. If you were to believe a poster in the BF poker board about 18 months ago, via a product called sharkscope he was able to determine some exceptionally large losses.

I cant remember his online player name, however from memory it was made up of part of this name and jumper number at carlton

LOL if you find that thread again and read it you will see it was debunked by everyone in the Poker forum, including me.

Besides him at one stage being sponsored to play (not his money for the most part) he had lost something like $5k in 3 months. Certainly that is a lot for me but I don't earn $700k a year.

[Twodogs]

You mean the same guy that had two Mistresses one an ex prostitute.


:)
Is KB pointing out that like Dick Pratt, he used to get away with it? Or someone to pay out the problems?


I dont think that KB was nominating Pratt for a posthomous Nobel prize. He was more pointing out that there is a correlation between his death and Fev really running off the rails.

Then again Fev was no choir boy at the start of his career. Like Chop's said, maybe Pratt was in a position to cover up his excesses using his influence with people or just plain covering the debts he ran up.

David Parkin has some very interesting insights on the Fev situation and what it was like handling him in the early days at carlton.

[Topdog]

what did Parko say? / Where did he say it?

[Twodogs]

what did Parko say? / Where did he say it?

A synopsis of the top of my head;


When Fev first turned up at the Blues Parko asked him what he wanted to do with his life and he said that all he wanted to be was a professional footballer. Fev said that now that he was on an AFL list he was going to chuck school in because he thought that going to school was basically a waste of his time. Parkin told him that with an attitude like that then as long as he was the coach Fev would never play a game in the seniors. If Fev wanted to prove that he was determined to succeed then at the very least he would finish his secondary school education.

It was on an ABC radio football broadcast last year.

[AndrewP6]

That is unbelieveable from someone who spent nigh on 2 months in rehab.
If he has an addictive personality there is no half measure, especially with gambling. He's kidding himself.

But not that uncommmon... often part of the problem is their belief that they are OK, and that they have it (the addiction) under control.

[Twodogs]

Besides him at one stage being sponsored to play (not his money for the most part) he had lost something like $5k in 3 months.


This bit intrigues me. I understand that you have debunked the fact it wasnt Fev the poster was talking about but let's say for argument's sake it was. Even if it isnt his own money he was using is it still a problem with his rehab that he is gambling?

Is the problem, a/ the fact he is still gambling?(no matter whose money he was using) b/the fact he doesnt seem to be very good at gambling or c/gambling in itself.

Lot's of people make a good living from gambling successfully-are they addicts too or is it just the mugs that do their dough who are considered to have a problem?

[GVGjr]

Lot's of people make a good living from gambling successfully-are they addicts too or is it just the mugs that do their dough who are considered to have a problem?

In my opinion an addict is someone who agrees that he is gambling more than he should and the urge to keep doing so is stronger than what his own common sense is telling him.

Fev isn't in a good enough place to say I have a problem with the horses or cards but not with poker machines.

BTW, plenty of successful gamblers still have gambling problems.

[Twodogs]

In my opinion an addict is someone who agrees that he is gambling more than he should and the urge to keep doing so is stronger than what his own common sense is telling him.




Yep. That's a good succint definition. Urge is the key word I reckon.


BTW There's an accountant's office near where I live. About a year ago I walked past his office one sunday morning about 8.30am on the way to the supermarket. The door opened and a bloke walked out (along with a plume of smoke) and I noticed there was half a dozen blokes sitting around his desk playing poker-Texas hold 'em from memory.

They had obviously been sitting there all night playing and I can remember thinking "I must cross him off my list of accountants I will use". Just lately I've noticed he's been having a bit of trouble with smashed windows and other acts of vandallism to his office. I wonder if the two things are connected?

[Topdog]

This bit intrigues me. I understand that you have debunked the fact it wasnt Fev the poster was talking about but let's say for argument's sake it was. Even if it isnt his own money he was using is it still a problem with his rehab that he is gambling?

Is the problem, a/ the fact he is still gambling?(no matter whose money he was using) b/the fact he doesnt seem to be very good at gambling or c/gambling in itself.

Lot's of people make a good living from gambling successfully-are they addicts too or is it just the mugs that do their dough who are considered to have a problem?

Sorry it was Fev (this is dating back 2-3 years now btw) but he wasn't some reckless moron losing a load of money (comparable to ones salary) doing it.

It is certainly an issue for him and 1 that he needs to sort and he needs to get it into his head that poker and pokies are still a major problem for him.

[AndrewP6]

More drama:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/brendan-fevola-denied-access-to-crowns-gaming-floor-on-sunday-night/story-e6frf9jf-1226030225912

Fev is one messed up dude.