Big Game Players

[boydogs]

We seem to have a group of players that struggle to make an impact in big games, and then others whose stocks go up a level when it's all on the line

Which players do you think fall into each of those categories? What are your thoughts on selection, list management and recruitment when it comes to each type?

Here are my lists:

Struggle in big games
Nathan Eagleton
Mitch Hahn
Daniel Giansiracusa
Matthew Boyd
Lindsay Gilbee

Better in big games
Callan Ward
Ryan Griffen
Dylan Addison
Tim Callan
Liam Picken

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We've often bemoaned our lack of blokes who stand up under the pressure of big games.
How do people think we are placed going forward.

Despite another failed campaign, I think as per Westdog54's 'Amidst the disappointment thread, we've got some shining lights coming through, especially in the "I might be young/inexperience but I'm not overawed on the big stage' category.

For me guys like Ward, Picken, Wood, Grant and I suspect Hooper too look as if they really like the big stage and with further experience this can only be a good sign going forward, and hopefully these guys can foster this amongst the other guys coming through.

I'd add Harbrow into this list too, but it seems a foregone conclusion that he won't be with next year.

Another very good finals series from Griffen, and at long last a big finals series from Murph were pleasing aspects too.

[Mofra]

Another very good finals series from Griffen, and at long last a big finals series from Murph were pleasing aspects too.
They are the two established players who can hold their heads high.
Ward will clearly develop into a big game player, DFA lifted when the pressure was on.

There is one who I expect most wont agree with, but something tells me when fit, Higgins will break a final open in his time. He's tough, solid and uses the ball well.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Great minds think alike. I just posted a similar topic a minute after you, on our improving stocks in this regard.
However I focused on the plus side of the list. You've done a more balanced job here.

I think from this finals series I'dd add Murph into that list of Big game players, his finals series hopefully has shrugged off some poor finals campaigns in the past.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

They are the two established players who can hold their heads high.
Ward will clearly develop into a big game player, DFA lifted when the pressure was on.

There is one who I expect most wont agree with, but something tells me when fit, Higgins will break a final open in his time. He's tough, solid and uses the ball well.

I think you might be proven right in time on Higgins. It's hard to make an assessment based on his 2010 season though, due to his illness/injury problems which have hampered him. Hopefully he can get a clean run next year, and enhance his rep in this regard.

Also agreem, DFA should be included in that list. I really hope he can kick on next year and find some consistency during the regular season as he has some wonderful attributes attitude and endeavour wise.

[LostDoggy]

Add Lake and Dale to the big game players. The last 3 prelims they have given us a chance

[Go_Dogs]

Add Lake and Dale to the big game players. The last 3 prelims they have given us a chance

Spot on. We'd be buggered without them!

[AndrewP6]

We seem to have a group of players that struggle to make an impact in big games, and then others whose stocks go up a level when it's all on the line

Which players do you think fall into each of those categories? What are your thoughts on selection, list management and recruitment when it comes to each type?

Here are my lists:

Struggle in big games
Nathan Eagleton
Mitch Hahn
Daniel Giansiracusa
Matthew Boyd
Lindsay Gilbee

Better in big games
Callan Ward
Ryan Griffen
Dylan Addison
Tim Callan
Liam Picken

Agree with your lists, although I thought Gilbs had some good moments... shattered that when it comes time to stand up, our 'leaders' lay down.

[Mantis]

Agree with your lists, although I thought Gilbs had some good moments... shattered that when it comes time to stand up, our 'leaders' lay down.

I loved it when he turned himself into a witches hat in the 3rd qtr so Schneider could run into an open goal.

He is as soft as shit.

[AndrewP6]

I loved it when he turned himself into a witches hat in the 3rd qtr so Schneider could run into an open goal.

He is as soft as shit.

Disagree...

[Greystache]

I loved it when he turned himself into a witches hat in the 3rd qtr so Schneider could run into an open goal.

He is as soft as shit.

Agree, pathetic from a senior player. He has played 7 finals against top 4 teams for one good game (Geelong QF 2009) that's not acceptable.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Perhaps another name we're forgetting is Minson.

I know we're light on for ruckmen, he's young enough, big, not the worst 'tap' ruckman etc. but if I was supporting another club, I'd compare Will to Leigh Brown prior to 2010. Spud.

[soupman]

Perhaps another name we're forgetting is Minson.

I know we're light on for ruckmen, he's young enough, big, not the worst 'tap' ruckman etc. but if I was supporting another club, I'd compare Will to Leigh Brown prior to 2010. Spud.

Yes. I frequently find it frustrating when I bag an opponent like Brown or Koschitske for being a spud and then Minson does his whole "I can outrun Cyril Rioli" act or the old walk in front of the bloke lining up for goal.

[AndrewP6]

Perhaps another name we're forgetting is Minson.

I know we're light on for ruckmen, he's young enough, big, not the worst 'tap' ruckman etc. but if I was supporting another club, I'd compare Will to Leigh Brown prior to 2010. Spud.

Unfortunately, I agree...

[ledge]

I thought Mitch Hahn stood up last night but I noticed he was blowing hard at halftime.
Great effort from DFA too.
2 players we probably didnt expect to.

[Mofra]

Great effort from DFA too.
There's alot of talk abotu downhill skiiers in football, I think DFA is the opposite - a classic uphill skiier. The more pressure he is under, the better he perfroms. Against a bottom side his performance drops. He is an interesting conundrum for the coaches to work with.

[Sedat]

There's alot of talk abotu downhill skiiers in football, I think DFA is the opposite - a classic uphill skiier. The more pressure he is under, the better he perfroms. Against a bottom side his performance drops. He is an interesting conundrum for the coaches to work with.
If players of the calibre of like McQualter and Eddy can make a good fist of the defensive forward role, DFA is more than equipped to do the same. Osborne, Rooke, Chick, about half the Swans 2005 team - every recent premiership team has this ingredient in their team.

[comrade]

If players of the calibre of like McQualter and Eddy can make a good fist of the defensive forward role, DFA is more than equipped to do the same. Osborne, Rooke, Chick, about half the Swans 2005 team - every recent premiership team has this ingredient in their team.

We've all asked ourselves what role best suits DFA and plenty of us have been pushing the defensive forward barrow. I reckon the MC has finally seen the light :)

[bornadog]

We've all asked ourselves what role best suits DFA and plenty of us have been pushing the defensive forward barrow. I reckon the MC has finally seen the light :)

Had a broken rib as well, after throwing himself at every contest.

[EasternWest]

We seem to have a group of players that struggle to make an impact in big games, and then others whose stocks go up a level when it's all on the line

Which players do you think fall into each of those categories? What are your thoughts on selection, list management and recruitment when it comes to each type?

Here are my lists:

Struggle in big games
Nathan Eagleton
Mitch Hahn
Daniel Giansiracusa
Matthew Boyd
Lindsay Gilbee

Better in big games
Callan Ward
Ryan Griffen
Dylan Addison
Tim Callan
Liam Picken

Though he didn't play this year, I remember how good Tiller was in the finals. Never seemed overawed.

Good to see some DFA love :D. He's had a good September.

[Greystache]

We've all asked ourselves what role best suits DFA and plenty of us have been pushing the defensive forward barrow. I reckon the MC has finally seen the light :)

And not only was he his usual ferocious self at the ball and man, did a good job restricting their rebound, but he also took some marks and kicked a good goal. His kicking problems shouldn't be such an issue up forward.

[comrade]

And not only was he his usual ferocious self at the ball and man, did a good job restricting their rebound, but he also took some marks and kicked a good goal. His kicking problems shouldn't be such an issue up forward.

Exactly. With Johnno out and DFA in, our forward line pressure increases by about 150%.

PS. I love Johnno, but he didn't just enjoy the tackling side of things :D

[EasternWest]

Exactly. With Johnno out and DFA in, our forward line pressure increases by about 150%.

PS. I love Johnno, but he didn't just enjoy the tackling side of things :D

How can you know if you love something if you never tried it ;)?

Also love Johnno. Just kidding around.

[Greystache]

Exactly. With Johnno out and DFA in, our forward line pressure increases by about 150%.

PS. I love Johnno, but he didn't just enjoy the tackling side of things :D

Can you calculate a percentage based on a zero number? ;)

[LostDoggy]

Though he didn't play this year, I remember how good Tiller was in the finals. Never seemed overawed.

Good to see some DFA love :D. He's had a good September.

I always liked Tiller and thought he has never been given a true run at it. Would love to see him play a whole season. May end up another Skipper.

[DOG GOD]

Surely we cant afford to have all of Tiller, Boumann and Mulligan on the list next year. Id keep Tiller as we know what he CAN do.

We just cant afford to have list fillers.

[EasternWest]

I always liked Tiller and thought he has never been given a true run at it. Would love to see him play a whole season. May end up another Skipper.

This is probably a pretty fair post. I agree though that it would be good for him to get fit to see if he can cut it or is indeed another Skip. FWIW Skip had a great attitude but wasn't quite good enough IMO.

[LostDoggy]

This is probably a pretty fair post. I agree though that it would be good for him to get fit to see if he can cut it or is indeed another Skip. FWIW Skip had a great attitude but wasn't quite good enough IMO.
I thought Hawthorn would be very happy with what they got out of Skip especially after he had six weeks off with the knee injurie. Thought he was in there top 5 in the Freo final.

[LostDoggy]

Surely we cant afford to have all of Tiller, Boumann and Mulligan on the list next year. Id keep Tiller as we know what he CAN do.

We just cant afford to have list fillers.

I guess it comes down to what we can get in the Draft. They stay if there is nothing better.

[boydogs]

There's alot of talk abotu downhill skiiers in football, I think DFA is the opposite - a classic uphill skiier. The more pressure he is under, the better he perfroms. Against a bottom side his performance drops. He is an interesting conundrum for the coaches to work with.

My thoughts exactly

There have been some good posts in this thread, but I would like to hear more about what we do with these players - given that we know Addison will stand up in finals, do we give him 22 games regardless so he is in the best form possible in the finals?

Do we continue to play Hahn, Gia, Gilbee in the H&A season to win enough games?

Should we put more emphasis on the performance of kids in big games at junior level, rather than just focusing on their skills & physical attributes? e.g. Hooper in the under 18 champs

Has our recruiting been OK recently, with most of the downhill skiiers being north of 25?


We've all asked ourselves what role best suits DFA and plenty of us have been pushing the defensive forward barrow. I reckon the MC has finally seen the light :)

In a tight match it works well, but in general play he can be outmarked, beaten for height & strength, and his skills can let him down.

Addison is great with defensive pressure and contested ball. He is an uphill skiier, someone who will appear sterile in the H&A season but potent in finals where an uncontested possession is a rare beast

Do we accept his 10 possession 50% efficiency games during the year because we know what he brings to the table when it counts?

Some posters when referring to Eagleton have said things like Eagleton played well and will probably play well next week, but I would rather not select him because he will fail in finals so there is no point giving him games. Who agrees with this approach?


Though he didn't play this year, I remember how good Tiller was in the finals. Never seemed overawed.

Would have made my list if I didn't keep it to 5 players who played seniors this September


Good to see some DFA love :D. He's had a good September.

Yeah he did. So did my man Griff ;)

[comrade]

Addison is great with defensive pressure and contested ball. He is an uphill skiier, someone who will appear sterile in the H&A season but potent in finals where an uncontested possession is a rare beast

Do we accept his 10 possession 50% efficiency games during the year because we know what he brings to the table when it counts?


I think we have to but our game style in general needs to become more pressurised, more contested ala Collingwood and St Kilda. They're in a GF for a reason.

Some of our big wins this year felt like a non-contact training drill. This style does nothing to develop skills that are required to excel in September.

Most sides generate run from their half back line. If Dylan has 10 touches and snuffs a few but keeps his opponent in check, he's done his job.



Some posters when referring to Eagleton have said things like Eagleton played well and will probably play well next week, but I would rather not select him because he will fail in finals so there is no point giving him games. Who agrees with this approach?


If you have proven you're unable to stand up in finals, you should be at the back of the queue to give others a shot.

[EasternWest]

Yeah he did. So did my man Griff ;)

Hmmm. Not familiar with this Griff. Is he related to Grifftember? :D

[Dancin' Douggy]

How about DFA as our Brett Kirk?
A hard as nails midfielder,
with the added bonus of strength overhead and a pretty good kick for goal.
I reckon he's one of the hardest nuts I've seen.

[boydogs]

How about DFA as our Brett Kirk?
A hard as nails midfielder,
with the added bonus of strength overhead and a pretty good kick for goal.
I reckon he's one of the hardest nuts I've seen.

Picken is our Kirk - Kirk was a tagger
The other strengths you mentioned would be better utilised up forward

[Desipura]

Exactly. With Johnno out and DFA in, our forward line pressure increases by about 150%.

PS. I love Johnno, but he didn't just enjoy the tackling side of things :D
DFA was fantastic with his pressure in the first half. If we have ambitions of winning a premiership, we need quality forwards who can apply defensive pressure. Turning to a DFA should be only if we have injuries to our forward line.

[Mantis]

DFA was fantastic with his pressure in the first half. If we have ambitions of winning a premiership, we need quality forwards who can apply defensive pressure. Turning to a DFA should be only if we have injuries to our forward line.

Where do you propose we get them from?

[Desipura]

Where do you propose we get them from?

Develop what we already have ie Jones, Grant to physically develop further so he can make a tackle stick.
Pick up a goalsneak who will chase is a good starting point. We have very little depth in this area on our list.

[Mofra]

Develop what we already have ie Jones, pick up a goalsneak who will chase is a good starting point. We have very little depth in this area on our list.
Jones is good, Grant very much imporved, Hooper also chases hard. That's halfway there before we consider DFA playing forward in a defensive role has been a success, and Gia has played the role successfully this year as well.

Johnno & Hahn were the worst offenders - Johnno wont be there and Hahn may not play much either IMO.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Where do you propose we get them from?

An Alwyn Davey type could be worth looking at. Nahas is another. Tambling and Jetta have been mentioned elsewhere, but they won't come cheap.

If we could add (for eg) a Sherman + Davey combo, I'd be very happy.

Not sure what Davey or Nahas would cost though.

[Mofra]

Surely we cant afford to have all of Tiller, Boumann and Mulligan on the list next year. Id keep Tiller as we know what he CAN do.

We just cant afford to have list fillers.
Tiller is the same age as Morris was when we rookied him.

If he can get himself fit he can add some value to the team. Would be part of the 22nd-30th on the list group that we lacked this year in terms of pressuring the senior players to play, and given players drop markedly when age catches up with them I'd want him there to cover the loss of a Shaggy or Morris if that came to be.

[GVGjr]

Tiller is the same age as Morris was when we rookied him.

If he can get himself fit he can add some value to the team. Would be part of the 22nd-30th on the list group that we lacked this year in terms of pressuring the senior players to play, and given players drop markedly when age catches up with them I'd want him there to cover the loss of a Shaggy or Morris if that came to be.

And that was based on the recommendation of West in a practice game. I don't know that Tillers on field performances over the last 2 seasons would be getting that many glowing endorsements.
We carry a couple of depth players but not too many. His age might be his greatest chance of staying on.

[Bulldog Joe]

We've often bemoaned our lack of blokes who stand up under the pressure of big games.
How do people think we are placed going forward.

Despite another failed campaign, I think as per Westdog54's 'Amidst the disappointment thread, we've got some shining lights coming through, especially in the "I might be young/inexperience but I'm not overawed on the big stage' category.

For me guys like Ward, Picken, Wood, Grant and I suspect Hooper too look as if they really like the big stage and with further experience this can only be a good sign going forward, and hopefully these guys can foster this amongst the other guys coming through.

I'd add Harbrow into this list too, but it seems a foregone conclusion that he won't be with next year.

Another very good finals series from Griffen, and at long last a big finals series from Murph were pleasing aspects too.
Unfortunately Grant DID NOT step up on the big stage.
A very disappointing finals series from J Grant.

[Sockeye Salmon]

We've often bemoaned our lack of blokes who stand up under the pressure of big games.
How do people think we are placed going forward.

Despite another failed campaign, I think as per Westdog54's 'Amidst the disappointment thread, we've got some shining lights coming through, especially in the "I might be young/inexperience but I'm not overawed on the big stage' category.

For me guys like Ward, Picken, Wood, Grant and I suspect Hooper too look as if they really like the big stage and with further experience this can only be a good sign going forward, and hopefully these guys can foster this amongst the other guys coming through.

I'd add Harbrow into this list too, but it seems a foregone conclusion that he won't be with next year.

Another very good finals series from Griffen, and at long last a big finals series from Murph were pleasing aspects too.

Sorry YHF, wishing it doesn't make it so.

Lets wait a couple of year to see what he can do.

[Desipura]

People talking about Hooper being a regular in 2011 astounds me. In his one and only game, I did not see anything to suggest he will be a regular.
Im not saying he wont make it, I just have not seen enough of him.

[Mofra]

People talking about Hooper being a regular in 2011 astounds me. In his one and only game, I did not see anything to suggest he will be a regular.
Im not saying he wont make it, I just have not seen enough of him.
Have you seen his Williamstown form? He has shown he has very good smarts, is a very quick accelerator and genuinely wants to chase and tackle. He offers us exactly what we need in the F50 and I'd suggest there'd be some improvement after a full pre-season too.
There's no reason why he can't be pushing for selection in round 1.

[Desipura]

Have you seen his Williamstown form? He has shown he has very good smarts, is a very quick accelerator and genuinely wants to chase and tackle. He offers us exactly what we need in the F50 and I'd suggest there'd be some improvement after a full pre-season too.
There's no reason why he can't be pushing for selection in round 1.
I have seen him at Willi. I have not seen the acceleration you have. Would need to put in a big preseason as he looks a little heavy for mine.

[Mofra]

I have seen him at Willi. I have not seen the acceleration you have. Would need to put in a big preseason as he looks a little heavy for mine.
I have seen him find himself in the right spots after a burst, and 2.80 for the 20m test (3rd overall at draft camp) gives me enough coinfidence he has enough of a burst to find space in the F50.
I wouldn't class him as a definate, but a possible.

[Mantis]

Another deep and meaningful comment from a senior poster who knows better but thinks he is free to indulge his baser instincts.

Your views & posts have certainly been missed around here.

[alwaysadog]

Your views & posts have certainly been missed around here.

Pity the same can't be said about you.

I hope you're proud of the post I highlighted.

You avoided dealing with the issue of your demeaning a senior player, and have done what you always do - go the man.

You can't take it when your double standards are exposed.


Arrogance and bullying seem your strong suits.

[LongWait]

Had to check twice - thought I was on the Richmond website for a minute there...

[Mofra]

Had to check twice - thought I was on the Richmond website for a minute there...
Richmond fans have shown more decorum than Bulldog fans in the past week and a half.
The character assassination of some players on Woof is simply embarrassing sometimes.

[bornadog]

Richmond fans have shown more decorum than Bulldog fans in the past week and a half.
The character assassination of some players on Woof is simply embarrassing sometimes.

Couldn't agree more.

I agree with you that Hooper has the makings to be a regular next year. We need an injection of youth into the team and he is one of many that should get lots of game time. When Hooper kicked that goal just before half time against the Swans, and pumped his fists and ran around jumping up and down, it ignited the whole team. Every player interviewed after that match spoke about Hooper and his enthusiasm. We need more Hoopers to be outgoing and showing some spirit which we have lacked for a long time.

[comrade]

Richmond fans have shown more decorum than Bulldog fans in the past week and a half.
The character assassination of some players on Woof is simply embarrassing sometimes.

I've read most posts in the last couple of weeks and whilst there have been some unfair comments, most posters have tried to be as balanced as possible in their analysis of our performance. The fact that we failed again means most will have a negative tinge.

I'm happy to be shown these offending posts and proven wrong, but criticism after another disappointing season should be expected.

[Mofra]

I've read most posts in the last couple of weeks and whilst there have been some unfair comments, most posters have tried to be as balanced as possible in their analysis of our performance. The fact that we failed again means most will have a negative tinge.

I'm happy to be shown these offending posts and proven wrong, but criticism after another disappointing season should be expected.
There have been a fair few comments (some appear to be deleted) that tend to overstep the mark by a fair distance IMO.

I think dragging them up again would cause more problems than solve though.

[LongWait]

My Richmond reference was directed at the way some members of this forum treat each other. Richmond is a club that tears itself apart with abuse and vitriol.

[Mofra]

I agree with you that Hooper has the makings to be a regular next year. We need an injection of youth into the team and he is one of many that should get lots of game time. When Hooper kicked that goal just before half time against the Swans, and pumped his fists and ran around jumping up and down, it ignited the whole team. Every player interviewed after that match spoke about Hooper and his enthusiasm. We need more Hoopers to be outgoing and showing some spirit which we have lacked for a long time.
I am just as excited by some of the signs he showed at Willy this year, but showing that sort of passion did spark the team because of how little passion there seemed to be shown in the preceeding weeks.

We do seem to have a team of (mostly) quiet types and niceguys - a yappy, excitable bloke celebrating goals would be great for the team dynamic. I saw Maxwell giving Higgins an absolute serve in the QF and I thought "you dirtbag" but to be honest, I wish we had more guys that were willing to do it back. The fact he just took it and nobody flew the flag was not a good look.

[Mantis]

Pity the same can't be said about you.

I hope you're proud of the post I highlighted.

You avoided dealing with the issue of your demeaning a senior player, and have done what you always do - go the man.

You can't take it when your double standards are exposed.

Arrogance and bullying seem your strong suits.

I stand by the highlighted post, perhaps the wording was poor, but it was late, I was a little drunk and pretty angry having just watched the team I support fall away under pressure once again. The piece of play highlighted was deplorable at a crucial time and left the team in a dire situation. The easy option was to go to ground which was occured, but I doubt we would have seen a Collingwood or St.Kilda player go to ground in the same situation and this piece of play highlights one of the reasons why we are unable to make the jump from a PF team to a GF team

Thanks too for your job at profiling me... Much appreciated... I will pass your comments onto my psychologist.

[comrade]

I saw Maxwell giving Higgins an absolute serve in the QF and I thought "you dirtbag" but to be honest, I wish we had more guys that were willing to do it back. The fact he just took it and nobody flew the flag was not a good look.

It was disheartening. Our lack of physicality and our atrocious tackling stats highlights the mindset of the group.

We need to embrace our inner dirtbags and start living on the edge a bit more :D

The best teams know they can serve it up to us and only a few guys are game to give it back (I love you Liam Picken).

That needs to change for us to take the next step.

[AndrewP6]

We do seem to have a team of (mostly) quiet types and niceguys - a yappy, excitable bloke celebrating goals would be great for the team dynamic.

I know one we recently got rid of ;)

OK I was kidding. Please don't attack me WOOFers!

[alwaysadog]

Richmond fans have shown more decorum than Bulldog fans in the past week and a half.
The character assassination of some players on Woof is simply embarrassing sometimes.

The trouble is it's encouraged by those who know better.

And they know who they are.

One of the main reasons for establishing this board along with an attempt at more in depth discussion was to get away from the cheap shots and the sniping at players.

Well some can't exercise any self control it seems and this board suffers.

As the club knows what goes on here I wonder if a few of the brave maligners will front the target(s) of their attacks.

I go by the creed that you don't say something on here you aren't prepared to say to the person face to face.

[Mantis]

Delete.

[EasternWest]

Geez will you two just take it offline? This thread is now so far off topic it's not even worth reading anymore.

[azabob]

Geez will you two just take it offline? This thread is now so far off topic it's not even worth reading anymore.

Is it though?

Big game players and big game posters are surely one in the same? lol!! :D

[Mofra]

I know one we recently got rid of ;)

OK I was kidding. Please don't attack me WOOFers!
That's it... I'm invoking my standard BF Aker response of "2 goals in 9 games" :D

[azabob]

That's it... I'm invoking mt standard BF response of "2 goals in 9 games" :D

But he would've kicked 6 in the prelim, just ask him.....:rolleyes:

[Mofra]

But he would've kicked 6 in the prelim, just ask him.....:rolleyes:
I actually did - he gave me a 15 minute rant about Brad Johnson and Leigh Matthews, then said in a desperate voice "for the love of god please buy my book"

[immortalmike]

Let's get this thread back on track from the girly slapfights and the Aker talk.


I've got a query about a couple of players that's been nagging at me for a while and I've tried to dismiss it because they're awesome. But what do you guys/girls reckon. Do Adam Cooney and Ryan Griffen tackle enough for elite mids? Seriously they are both proven (epecially Griff) big game players but it is rare that you see them have 5 or 6 tackles (let alone the 10 or so Ward is capable of) to go along with their 30 odd touches. Is this purely because they are offensive players and thus target the ball and not the man. And if so is this part of our problem?

[Ozza]

Let's get this thread back on track from the girly slapfights and the Aker talk.


I've got a query about a couple of players that's been nagging at me for a while and I've tried to dismiss it because they're awesome. But what do you guys/girls reckon. Do Adam Cooney and Ryan Griffen tackle enough for elite mids? Seriously they are both proven (epecially Griff) big game players but it is rare that you see them have 5 or 6 tackles (let alone the 10 or so Ward is capable of) to go along with their 30 odd touches. Is this purely because they are offensive players and thus target the ball and not the man. And if so is this part of our problem?

Its definitely a good point.

Cooney averaged 3 tackles per game this season (slightly up on his career ave).
Griffen averaged 3.25 (also slightly up)

Some opposition gun mids this year:

Hayes - 6.56
Ablett - 4.2
Judd - 5.25
Selwood - 5.25
Pendelbury - 5.3
Swan - 4.375