List Management Crisis

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

The WB MC needs a serious reality check. If we are being realistic it is fair to say that Hahn, Minson, Williams, Eagleton, Addison and Johnson on their season's form would not have been good enough to gain senior selection at either Collingwood or St. Kilda.
The decision to hold onto Hahn and Minson for example should only ever be when Jones and Roughead are injured.
Whilst Tom Williams battled bravely for half a game he was taken to the cleaners by Riewolt after half time once again proving that he always struggles against class opposition. Why Lake our best defender never went to Riewolt remains a mystery, when it became obvious that Morris's injury was such that the MC were not prepared to play him on Riewolt. The one redeeming feature of the game was the performance of Callan Ward.
Unfortunately injuries to both Cooney and Morris late in the season meant that we were always going to struggle in the finals.
The decision to overlook both Andrejs Everitt and Josh Hill in our last two finals campaigns,
would suggest that both these players need to be moved on. The expected loss of Jarrod Harbrow to the Gold Coast will be huge as he has been one of our few consistent players throughout the year.
Players like Giansircusa and Gilbee once again, showed that under tough opposition they are vulnerable and need to rise above mediocrity to justify what now appears to be automatic selection week in and week out.
Who on our current Board of Management has the necessary football knowledge to really address our current shortcomings?

[Sedat]

Could not disagree more in relation to Tom Williams. He shut Cloke out completely in the first week of the finals (despite Collingwood getting it inside 50 almost 70 times), struggled with injury but limited Goodes' impact in week 2 and was very good for a lot of the game on Reiwoldt on Saturday night. I think he has made great strides in 2010 and will be a permanent and very important part of our defensive group for the next 5-6 years.

[Mantis]

As with Sedat I can't agree with the Williams call, he has taken big steps this year.

Lake doesn't have the stamina or concentration to play on Riewoldt, crazy call.

As far as crisis... I don't agree, we do need to determine the type of player we require to take us that little bit further, but as a consistent top 4 team over the past 3 years we must be doing something right.

[stefoid]

2010 was a hugely positive year for Tom. It was touch and go there for a while if he was ever going to get on the park again. This year he added 23 games to his experience for a total of only 56.

[LostDoggy]

Agree with Sedat on Williams. On Minson, I'm not sure why everyone has Roughead above him so far that they want Minson gone. Roughy shows potential but has only played a few games. As we've seen with Hill and Everitt and to a lesser extent Higgins, an excellent first season doesn't always translate into a 10 year gun. If, for whatever reason, Roughy doesn't improve in line with expectations, there's no one else. Minson has held his spot for 5+ years now and IMO he is Afl quality.

[stefoid]

Roughead has genuine class and talent - I think you just fast track those guys, body permitting. Wallis, Roughead, Jones, Grant... I want 22+ games from them next year.

Perfectly happy to have the less talented guys learn to polish their game at williamstown.

[cinder]

I thought Addison was ok as well!

[1eyedog]

Could not disagree more in relation to Tom Williams. He shut Cloke out completely in the first week of the finals (despite Collingwood getting it inside 50 almost 70 times), struggled with injury but limited Goodes' impact in week 2 and was very good for a lot of the game on Reiwoldt on Saturday night. I think he has made great strides in 2010 and will be a permanent and very important part of our defensive group for the next 5-6 years.

Yeah same goes, not because you make a convincing argument, but because what you say is true.

[Mofra]

I'll defend DFA as well - he stood up in a big final.

So far on Woof we've cut blocks on the basis of their finals form being worse than their H&A season, and now a finals perfromer because his H&A form wasn't great.
We'll be lucky to field a ruddy team next year!

[bornadog]

I'll defend DFA as well - he stood up in a big final.

So far on Woof we've cut blocks on the basis of their finals form being worse than their H&A season, and now a finals perfromer because his H&A form wasn't great.
We'll be lucky to field a ruddy team next year!

Lots of emotion no logic in all these calls.

Williams hurt his hip in the second quarter and wasn't even on Riewoldt when he kicked those couple of goals. I think Tommy is starting to show the faith we have had in him. He notched up his 50th game and has really started to show he will be a very good backman for years to come.

I have really changed my mind on Addison, the last two weeks he has shown guts and determination like we kinow he has had in the past.

[Mofra]

I have really changed my mind on Addison, the last two weeks he has shown guts and determination like we kinow he has had in the past.
I've changed my mind as well. I thought at the start of the year he was a liability overhead and was a pure grunter - he managed to nab a couple of goals and has improved his overhead abilities, and started to show a bit of the dash he displayed in his first season at the club/year he was drafted. His decision making has improved as well.

[AndrewP6]

Tommy has really improved his game this year, and stayed on the park for the bulk of the season. He did well against the Filth, and Riewoldt is a very good player (jeez that hurts!) so no shame in being beaten by him...and IIRC he wasn't on Diver when he kicked those goals.

Addison and Picken were both fantastic on Saturday - redeeming features in my book...

Crisis? A prelim final is hardly a crisis.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

As with Sedat I can't agree with the Williams call, he has taken big steps this year.

Lake doesn't have the stamina or concentration to play on Riewoldt, crazy call.

As far as crisis... I don't agree, we do need to determine the type of player we require to take us that little bit further, but as a consistent top 4 team over the past 3 years we must be doing something right.

Are you suggesting that Lake as a key All Australian defender can not play on the opposition's best big forward. I find that staggering. In terms of a crisis looming we have at present an ageing list with limitations now in the National draft. Our form this year hasn't really matched our past two years. At the start of the year we were close to flag favourites but have now effectively lost ground to both Collingwood and St. Kilda.
Our lack of depth was obvious this year when trying to find replacements for injured players. Some senior players were given games even though their form didn't justify regular selection. An interesting article in today's Herald- Sun on the number of key players requiring surgery in the off season.
Are we physically robust enough and equipped to handle the rigors of today's football?
I am not suggesting that being top 4 in the past three years, that it has been all bad, but rather to suggest that our recruiting needs to be smarter and better, in the future if we are ever going to bridge the gap.

[chef]

Are you suggesting that Lake as a key All Australian defender can not play on the opposition's best big forward. I find that staggering. In terms of a crisis looming we have at present an ageing list with limitations now in the National draft. Our form this year hasn't really matched our past two years. At the start of the year we were close to flag favourites but have now effectively lost ground to both Collingwood and St. Kilda.
Our lack of depth was obvious this year when trying to find replacements for injured players. Some senior players were given games even though their form didn't justify regular selection. An interesting article in today's Herald- Sun on the number of key players requiring surgery in the off season.
Are we physically robust enough and equipped to handle the rigors of today's football?
I am not suggesting that being top 4 in the past three years, that it has been all bad, but rather to suggest that our recruiting needs to be smarter and better, in the future if we are ever going to bridge the gap.

Have you watched the way Roo plays?

The majority of mid fielders in the league would struggle to keep up with his running ability.

[EasternWest]

Are you suggesting that Lake as a key All Australian defender can not play on the opposition's best big forward. I find that staggering. In terms of a crisis looming we have at present an ageing list with limitations now in the National draft. Our form this year hasn't really matched our past two years. At the start of the year we were close to flag favourites but have now effectively lost ground to both Collingwood and St. Kilda.
Our lack of depth was obvious this year when trying to find replacements for injured players. Some senior players were given games even though their form didn't justify regular selection. An interesting article in today's Herald- Sun on the number of key players requiring surgery in the off season.
Are we physically robust enough and equipped to handle the rigors of today's football?
I am not suggesting that being top 4 in the past three years, that it has been all bad, but rather to suggest that our recruiting needs to be smarter and better, in the future if we are ever going to bridge the gap.

I think he's saying that Lake couldn't cover the ground that Riewoldt can. Lake is a very good reader of the ball. He loves to drift off and pick off incoming kicks, which he does beautifully. To do that requires the ability to not be 100% focussed on your direct opponent, all the time. And that's something you can't afford on Riewoldt, who eats beep tests for snacks.

And I feel Williams must be stood up for. He's had a breakout year, seems to be learning the game well and is a phenomenal athlete. His decision making needs work, but kicking over 20-30 metres, he's a terrific kick. Before this year, I didn't know if he'd make it, but he's Jarrad Granted himself back into contention as a legitimate CHB prospect.

He played the entire finals on basically one leg, and did bloody well IMO. I'm stunned by calls here and on St. Kilda am radio from Dogs fans calling for his head. Stunned.

[Remi Moses]

Brother saw Brian out on Sat. night,could barely walk let alone get near Riewoldt!
Williams broke through and got his first finals series under his belt,Minson's interesting for me new rotation rule might determine whether or not he stays or gets traded.

[Ghost Dog]

Could not disagree more in relation to Tom Williams. He shut Cloke out completely in the first week of the finals (despite Collingwood getting it inside 50 almost 70 times), struggled with injury but limited Goodes' impact in week 2 and was very good for a lot of the game on Reiwoldt on Saturday night. I think he has made great strides in 2010 and will be a permanent and very important part of our defensive group for the next 5-6 years.

I have to agree. We played a team that had a weeks extra rest!
Ten showed some footage of Tommy limping around with Brian the week before the game. All things considered, he did really well.

[Ghost Dog]

I've changed my mind as well. I thought at the start of the year he was a liability overhead and was a pure grunter - he managed to nab a couple of goals and has improved his overhead abilities, and started to show a bit of the dash he displayed in his first season at the club/year he was drafted. His decision making has improved as well.

He even LOOKS a bit like Kirk. Or Don Jhonson ( see the WOOF look a like competition! )
Great finals game Dylan.

[stefoid]

With players like riewolt, you would be happy to put a stopper on them and achieve a nil-all draw. Thats Williams.

Then you put Lake on a tall gumby and he gets 25 possessions and takes 10 saving marks, 5 contested,sets up numerous attacks.

[Ghost Dog]

I think he's saying that Lake couldn't cover the ground that Riewoldt can. Lake is a very good reader of the ball. He loves to drift off and pick off incoming kicks, which he does beautifully. To do that requires the ability to not be 100% focussed on your direct opponent, all the time. And that's something you can't afford on Riewoldt, who eats beep tests for snacks.

And I feel Williams must be stood up for. He's had a breakout year, seems to be learning the game well and is a phenomenal athlete. His decision making needs work, but kicking over 20-30 metres, he's a terrific kick. Before this year, I didn't know if he'd make it, but he's Jarrad Granted himself back into contention as a legitimate CHB prospect.

He played the entire finals on basically one leg, and did bloody well IMO. I'm stunned by calls here and on St. Kilda am radio from Dogs fans calling for his head. Stunned.

Me too. I hope he isn't listening to all that. Who would have done a better job? Then again, many fans swore Avatar would never make it as a player. Now look at him.

[LostDoggy]

Could not disagree more in relation to Tom Williams. He shut Cloke out completely in the first week of the finals (despite Collingwood getting it inside 50 almost 70 times), struggled with injury but limited Goodes' impact in week 2 and was very good for a lot of the game on Reiwoldt on Saturday night. I think he has made great strides in 2010 and will be a permanent and very important part of our defensive group for the next 5-6 years.

Agree 100%.

Tom has made big improvements this year in his development, he has finally been able to get continuous games under his belt & played a full season. He played very well on the best forward in the competition, limited him for 2 quarters in a high intensity game. And i really believe his struggled with his injury, which resulted in Riewoldt being able to break the game open more.

It's his first finals series since arriving at the club & being in your first finals series, is always an eye opener, Grant is proof of that.

People need to remember that this guy has only played 56 AFL games (still inexperienced in AFL terms) which have been broken up over the past 3 years, compared to majority of people who went in his draft, they are well over 100 now.

He has improved a lot this season & another FULL pre season under his belt, will only see a much better Williams in 2011.

[Go_Dogs]

I think crisis is overstating it a bit, although certainly agree that we are currently faced with our most important list management decisions, probably in part due to a failure to make some tougher decisions previously.

Definitely think we'll suffer a hit in our short-term depth, but the cost-benefit is that if we can get more younger players onto the list and start ramping up our development programs/outcomes should help ensure we don't dip too far at all.

Of course this is offset by the natural improvement in a lot of other lists.

(I'm off to dinner but will come up with a more in-depth post on this over the w/e because it's a very interesting issue)