Harbrow Compensation - Ripped off!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Coon Dog]

End of first round, same as Hawks get for Campbell Brown & Crows get for Nathan Bock!

Not happy Jan!

Link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/102890/default.aspx)

[Desipura]

What happened to the pick being based on how much potential a player has? The AFL have done a backflip on that.

[Greystache]

Yep, a 23 year old on a steep curve of improvement worth the same as an undersized hard man wannabe who has been protected in defence by team structure. Absolute bullshit! :mad:

[SlimPickens]

Very ordinary, unfortunately Harbrows on paper credentials don't represent how good he is and can be.

[LostDoggy]

Rubbish, but we expected it to be the same as Brown.

Really poor system IMO.

[LostDoggy]

Joke, nothing short of a joke.

Should have been 1st round after our own pick.

[G-Mo77]

Very ordinary, unfortunately Harbrows on paper credentials don't represent how good he is and can be.

And that is it right there.

We were never going to get much more than this although I hoped he would. The system was put in place so that Geelong would not get ripped off with Ablett. The rest of the clubs have just "Band 3" players. which virtually is a 2nd Round pick in the next draft.

May as well hold onto the pick and use it after GWS comes in.

[Topdog]

Very ordinary, unfortunately Harbrows on paper credentials don't represent how good he is and can be.

8 votes in the Brownlow last night and in contention for AA, his credentials stack up.

[LostDoggy]

Any idea what pick this is going to be specifically, by end of first round do they mean the picks suceeding Bock & Browns?

[divvydan]

Any idea what pick this is going to be specifically, by end of first round do they mean the picks suceeding Bock & Browns?

The exact location of the pick will depend if Bris/Ade/Haw/Others decide to use their picks this season or not.
Currently, if no other teams nominate this year, the pick would be #27. If all three of the others so far use their pick this year too, (assuming we do), then it would be #30.

When mutliple teams nominate the same year to use their picks, the team that finished lowest on the ladder will get first pick.

[LostDoggy]

When mutliple teams nominate the same year to use their picks, the team that finished lowest on the ladder will get first pick.

Ah this helps, thanks very much.

[Mofra]

I thought we'd be a good chance to have him classed tier 2 given his age.

[Remi Moses]

Complete joke and makes a mockery of the whole thing!!
How is it possible to get the same compensation for a23 y/o with upside to a bloke who has played his best Footy!!!!Can the club come out and blast this please

[The Bulldogs Bite]

****ing pathetic AFL.

[choconmientay]

So, now where to from here. Can we contest the compensation and is there a chance to get a better pick?

[SlimPickens]

8 votes in the Brownlow last night and in contention for AA, his credentials stack up.

May have been different if he had made an all australian team but he didn't, a first round pick is what in the end should have been given and what we received. I don't like it but what can you do!

[comrade]

I wonder if he felt a hint of guilt after hearing of our compensation?

Doubt it.

[LostDoggy]

Imagine trading a guy like Harbrow with another club? You'd get a lot more in return that's for sure!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How does the AFL justify this, though? Who are they accountable to? Obviously nobody.

It's ridiculous to think we lose Harbrow (aged 23) for a half assed late first round pick. It's pathetic. If Harbrow played for one of the AFL's love childs, I'd bet on them compensating them better.

[comrade]

A 23 year old, on the cusp of AA selection, who polled 8 Brownlow votes and will finish top 10 in our B&F is only worth a pick in the mid 20s?

Get ****ing serious, AFL.

Surely there is an appeals process?

[Topdog]

May have been different if he had made an all australian team but he didn't, a first round pick is what in the end should have been given and what we received. I don't like it but what can you do!

Sorry but your thought process is warped if you truly believe that. Find the last time a 22/23 y.o running half back who got 8 brownlow votes and was on the verge of AA selection was traded and see if they only got a late first round pick.

We got more for Jordie FFS.

[lemmon]

****en hell, he would be worth a top 10 pick in a true market. Surely the club will appeal?

[Rocco Jones]

The same comp as Campbell Brown. Actually if we both use it this year, less compo than Brown. Imagine if we did a straight out trade with Brown and Harbrow, I'd be opening up a 'let's burn the club to the ground' thread.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Surely the club will appeal?

That was my next train of thought.

I hope we don't lie down and take it. Utter bullshit.

[chef]

I thought we'd be a good chance to have him classed tier 2 given his age.

Me too, hopefully we appeal(not that that will make much of a difference, Adelaide's appeal didn't change anything).

[Greystache]

Sorry but your thought process is warped if you truly believe that. Find the last time a 22/23 y.o running half back who got 8 brownlow votes and was on the verge of AA selection was traded and see if they only got a late first round pick.

We got more for Jordie FFS.

On the the verge of AA selection isn't a tangible thing, who's to say who was close to making the 40 man squad outside of the selectors? From the AFL's point of view you either make the squad or you don't.

[LostDoggy]

We got more for Jordie FFS.

Putting it like that, that is shocking. The system is a crock. Appeal a must if possible. :mad:

[stefoid]

Its based on salary, and the rumours I read were $500K.

Less than Brown and Bock, but he is younger.

On the open Market, we could have easily demanded something in the 8-15 range you would think.


So the pick will be from 26, if no other club bids, up to 30 or so I guess.

If we wait until GWS has gone, it will be from pick 19 and up, depending on how many other 'end of 1st round picks' get exercised in the 2012 draft.


I like the idea of using the pick this year, and attempting to upgrade the pick to 15-20 range by trading.

[comrade]

Brown on plus $500K?

What the **** is Clayton thinking?

[chef]

Its based on salary, and the rumours I read were $500K.

Less than Brown and Bock, but he is younger.

On the open Market, we could have easily demanded something in the 8-15 range you would think.


So the pick will be from 26, if no other club bids, up to 30 or so I guess.

If we wait until GWS has gone, it will be from pick 19 and up, depending on how many other 'end of 1st round picks' get exercised in the 2012 draft.


I like the idea of using the pick this year, and attempting to upgrade the pick to 15-20 range by trading.

Who would you trade with this pick to get a first round pick?

[stefoid]

Any fringe player who wanted to leave I guess, although everitt would be worth more.

Freo has pick 20 for instance - Josh Hill?

Depends if there is a player we are targeting who we think is a good chance to be available.

Id like to get smedts

[chef]

Any fringe player who wanted to leave I guess, although everitt would be worth more.Freo has pick 20 for instance - Josh Hill?

Depends if there is a player we are targeting who we think is a good chance to be available.

Id like to get smedts

Your not going to get a first round pick with a fringe player(not even if you package it with an early 2nd round pick).

[bornadog]

8 votes in the Brownlow last night and in contention for AA, his credentials stack up.

Except his kicking is atrocious couldn't hit the side of a barn. His kicking efficiency stinks.

[stefoid]

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/prospect-fancies-the-life-of-ryan-20100703-zv0v.html

how can we get this kid from Warnambool?

[Topdog]

On the the verge of AA selection isn't a tangible thing, who's to say who was close to making the 40 man squad outside of the selectors? From the AFL's point of view you either make the squad or you don't.

OK but intangible things are his age and his contract which according to the AFL were the most important things.

Everything I have heard is Brown was offered $450k and Harbrow either $450k or $500k.

So same contract but 5 years younger = same compo????

[Bulldog Revolution]

Disgraceful outcome for us

[Sockeye Salmon]

The AFL have stated that past achievements are not taken into account, only salary and age.

Brown is said to be on $450K and Harbrow $500K
Harbrow is 5 years younger

HTF can they then value them the same?

[mjp]

I am not surprised at the compensation.

I also don't know how many clubs would trade a top 10 pick for Harbrow. We rate him incredibly highly, but I am still not sold that every other club would automatically cough up a top-10 pick for him. He has shown a great ability to run the lines from behind the ball, but struggled as a small forward and had minimal impact as a mid....he might end up being Gav Wanganeen but could end up with a career similar to Roger Hayden - very similar in a lot of ways.

I am disappointed he is leaving but surely we have been expecting this for 12-months and have a plan in place? Further, we have just turned a rookie selection into a first round pick within 3 year...not bad going really. Our challenge now is what we do with the pick, not what the AFL gives us.

[Greystache]

OK but intangible things are his age and his contract which according to the AFL were the most important things.

Everything I have heard is Brown was offered $450k and Harbrow either $450k or $500k.

So same contract but 5 years younger = same compo????

Those two factors alone make it difficult to understand how we got the same as Hawthorn. Does being a previous AA make a difference to Brown and Bock? Also wasn't their placing in their team's B&F also supposed to come into it? Or has that changed now?

[Doc26]

Except his kicking is atrocious couldn't hit the side of a barn. His kicking efficiency stinks.

Harbrow is overrated, made to look good because he plays alongside a gun All Australian full back. Has little defensive mindset and can't stop an elusive small to save himself - even makes Neon Leon look good :);)

Jokes aside this is all just an entree to free trade anyway, softening us up. At least we're getting something close to a first round albeit a deep one. Wait until we start losing our untouchables for nothing because we don't have the money to keep pace with the big boys.

[stefoid]

Yeah but he is destined to become a midfielder

[Greystache]

Except his kicking is atrocious couldn't hit the side of a barn. His kicking efficiency stinks.

I don't necessarily agree with that BAD, yes some of his kicks are poor, but it's often because he carries the ball and takes players on. He sometimes finds himself forced to kick under pressure because of this and that affects his kick, but I don't think he's actually a poor kick. I think as he matures he'll find a bit more space and time to balance before kicking and his efficiency will improve.

[Ozza]

I don't necessarily agree with that BAD, yes some of his kicks are poor, but it's often because he carries the ball and takes players on. He sometimes finds himself forced to kick under pressure because of this and that affects his kick, but I don't think he's actually a poor kick. I think as he matures he'll find a bit more space and time to balance before kicking and his efficiency will improve.

Agree with this. Plus he is an excellent kicker from kick ins. I'm happy with the ball in his hands...much prefer him kicking in to Shaggy.

[Scraggers]

I am not surprised at the compensation.

I also don't know how many clubs would trade a top 10 pick for Harbrow. We rate him incredibly highly, but I am still not sold that every other club would automatically cough up a top-10 pick for him. He has shown a great ability to run the lines from behind the ball, but struggled as a small forward and had minimal impact as a mid....he might end up being Gav Wanganeen but could end up with a career similar to Roger Hayden - very similar in a lot of ways.

I am disappointed he is leaving but surely we have been expecting this for 12-months and have a plan in place? Further, we have just turned a rookie selection into a first round pick within 3 year...not bad going really. Our challenge now is what we do with the pick, not what the AFL gives us.

Agree with all of this MJP !!!

[Raw Toast]

I am not surprised at the compensation.

I also don't know how many clubs would trade a top 10 pick for Harbrow. We rate him incredibly highly, but I am still not sold that every other club would automatically cough up a top-10 pick for him. He has shown a great ability to run the lines from behind the ball, but struggled as a small forward and had minimal impact as a mid....he might end up being Gav Wanganeen but could end up with a career similar to Roger Hayden - very similar in a lot of ways.

I am disappointed he is leaving but surely we have been expecting this for 12-months and have a plan in place? Further, we have just turned a rookie selection into a first round pick within 3 year...not bad going really. Our challenge now is what we do with the pick, not what the AFL gives us.

Excellent post, but surely he is a tier 2 player, especially if Brown is a 3. As SS notes, they do not appear to have taken age into account which just seems blatantly unfair.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Excellent post, but surely he is a tier 2 player, especially if Brown is a 3. As SS notes, they do not appear to have taken age into account which just seems blatantly unfair.

Age was the cornerstone of what the formula was!

[LostDoggy]

What happened to the pick being based on how much potential a player has? The AFL have done a backflip on that.

I am totally confused by this compensation given we are losing a 23 year old with a big future ahead of him, as opposed to a what, 27 or 28 year old who is coming to the end of his career? Seems a backflip with respect to potential - as Coon Dog said.....NOT HAPPY JAN (ANDREW)!!!!

[SlimPickens]

OK but intangible things are his age and his contract which according to the AFL were the most important things.

Everything I have heard is Brown was offered $450k and Harbrow either $450k or $500k.

So same contract but 5 years younger = same compo????

I do understand what your saying, and don't get me wrong i am extremely disappointed with the compensation we have received for Harbrow. However I can actually see why we have received this compensation (i don't like it) but from what i understand about the AFL's compo system is that awards, B & F finishes, AA etc come into account. Yes he got 8 brownlow votes last night (i would be surprised if this actually came into calculation), and he finished top 10 in our B & F last year but to say he nearly made All Australian would have no bearing on the decision.

Harbrow has had two good seasons for the dogs and has a lot of improvement left in him, unfortunantly his past is what comes into calculation, not what the future may bring. He is a big loss for the footy club and I would hope the club will appeal what we have received.


On a side note i would be very surprised if the bulldogs would not use the pick gained as soon as possible. My primary reasoning for this is what coach is comfortable enough in their future to say i've got the next 5 years to use this. Rocket in particular being out of contract at the end of next season will use the pick next year, or trade it to get a player to the club.

[Go_Dogs]

That's just crap...

Surely if we are entitled to the same 'end of first round' pick, perhaps we should also get some additional compensation, for instance in the form of an 'end of second round' pick.

Complete BS that Brown/Bock/Harbrow are all worth the same.

[Drunken Bum]

but from what i understand about the AFL's compo system is that awards, B & F finishes, AA etc come into account. Yes he got 8 brownlow votes last night (i would be surprised if this actually came into calculation), and he finished top 10 in our B & F last year but to say he nearly made All Australian would have no bearing on the decision.

Harbrow has had two good seasons for the dogs and has a lot of improvement left in him, unfortunantly his past is what comes into calculation, not what the future may bring. He is a big loss for the footy club and I would hope the club will appeal what we have received.

Thats incorrect, that was the initial basis for judging compo, it was changed so that the only(?) or the main bearing on compo was the contract offered by GC combined with age. Therefore there is no way in hell we should be getting the same compo for Harbrow as they are giving for Bock and Brown if they are on anywhere near the same wage at GC

[Topdog]

However I can actually see why we have received this compensation (i don't like it) but from what i understand about the AFL's compo system is that awards, B & F finishes, AA etc come into account.

Well either you are wrong or the AFL has flat out lied and done a back flip because they said the 2 main factors are age and $$.

[LostDoggy]

If the club gets a good player for Harbrow I will be happy regardless of the pick.

[azabob]

Emma Quayle on Twitter

Yesterday "It's offical - jarrod harbrow is a gold coast sun. This one makes me a bit sad"

Today "The dogs have been ripped off re Harbrow, should've got a pick inside 1st round. He could play 10 more years, twice as long as Bock & Brown"

[Doc26]

Who are these faceless men making such judgements anyway, Paul Howes and Mark Arbib ?

[Mantis]

I hope we are investigating means for review into this decision.

As with many others views it's a poor decision from the AFL, but hardly surprising.

[Scorlibo]

What the hell?? This is outrageous! :mad: Highway robbery.

[AndrewP6]

If the club gets a good player for Harbrow I will be happy regardless of the pick.

The player we get might be good, with appropriate compensation we'd get a better one...

[Greystache]

The player we get might be good, with appropriate compensation we'd get a better one...

How do you know that? As much as people in the industry fancy otherwise, recruiting is an inexact science.

2001
Pick 9- Luke Molan
Pick 71- Brian Lake

2002
Pick 4- Tim Walsh
Pick 64- Nick Malceski

And so on....

[bornadog]

I don't necessarily agree with that BAD, yes some of his kicks are poor, but it's often because he carries the ball and takes players on. He sometimes finds himself forced to kick under pressure because of this and that affects his kick, but I don't think he's actually a poor kick. I think as he matures he'll find a bit more space and time to balance before kicking and his efficiency will improve.

That may be the reason for his bad kicking, and by bad I mean hitting targets but he still rarely hits a target. In the Collingwood game his kicking efficiency was 23%, on Saturday I am not sure what it was but I have watched the first half again and in the first quarter he just bombed the ball, in the second he bombed again, but he also got a pass to a player.

We all have a go at Hargrave, and Boyd for not hitting targets , but I would rate Harbrow worse than Hargrave at passing the ball to someone in a better position.

[boydogs]

As poor as the classification is, there's not much difference between what we got (end of 1st round) and what we would get if he was classified tier 2 (after our 1st round pick), given how far up the ladder we finished. That's assuming we use it this year of course.

[SlimPickens]

Well either you are wrong or the AFL has flat out lied and done a back flip because they said the 2 main factors are age and $$.

I may be wrong, I was still under the impression that these above 2 factors are 2 facets of the system which still includes previous performances, awards etc.

I've been searching for a good explanation on the AFL website but once again they are being as clear as mud!:rolleyes:

[AndrewP6]

How do you know that? As much as people in the industry fancy otherwise, recruiting is an inexact science.

2001
Pick 9- Luke Molan
Pick 71- Brian Lake

2002
Pick 4- Tim Walsh
Pick 64- Nick Malceski

And so on....

Don't know for sure, but given the choice, I'd rather a higher pick than a lower one.

[LostDoggy]

We all have a go at Hargrave, and Boyd for not hitting targets , but I would rate Harbrow worse than Hargrave at passing the ball to someone in a better position.

Having an ordinary right boot doesn't help him either. JH looks to get on his left an awful lot.

[stefoid]

Emma Quayle on Twitter

Yesterday "It's offical - jarrod harbrow is a gold coast sun. This one makes me a bit sad"

Today "The dogs have been ripped off re Harbrow, should've got a pick inside 1st round. He could play 10 more years, twice as long as Bock & Brown"

respect, Emma

[Topdog]

I may be wrong, I was still under the impression that these above 2 factors are 2 facets of the system which still includes previous performances, awards etc.

I've been searching for a good explanation on the AFL website but once again they are being as clear as mud!:rolleyes:

I forgot there could be a 3rd option. The AFL misled everyone and told half truths.

I'm actually backing this new 3rd option as being the right one.

[Doc26]

Maybe Harbrow was rated higher than Bock and Brown. The issue may be more to do with the AFL not incorporating enough flexibility into the compensation bands, there being not enough differential in the bands to cover the breadth of each players individual worth. The test might be how much compensation is given for GAJ assuming he moves.

[stefoid]

I forgot there could be a 3rd option. The AFL misled everyone and told half truths.

I'm actually backing this new 3rd option as being the right one.

If the MRP is anything to go by - god it is embarrassingly partial. Its not even like they try to hide it, its like they revel in it - yeah, baker gets 11 weeks and judd gets off, what are you going to do about it? haha!

[Mofra]

If the MRP is anything to go by - god it is embarrassingly partial. Its not even like they try to hide it, its like they revel in it - yeah, baker gets 11 weeks and judd gets off, what are you going to do about it? haha!
I thought Stevie J's hit on Baker was very similar to Judd's hit on McPhee. SJ gets 3 weeks, Judd nothing.

[Happy Days]

How do you know that? As much as people in the industry fancy otherwise, recruiting is an inexact science.

2001
Pick 9- Luke Molan
Pick 71- Brian Lake

2002
Pick 4- Tim Walsh
Pick 64- Nick Malceski

And so on....

This is one of the most tired arguments in all of sport.

Of course there's going to be some late picks better than some early picks, that's just how things work. Doesn't mean you have to force there to be a silver lining here. But for these two examples I could give you hundreds of players chosen in the first round that are better than those chosen later, generally because better players get picked earlier.

We got f***** over, plain and simple.

[Topdog]

Judd's hit on Pav would have earned most people 4 weeks. Who the hell elbows people in the head?

[stefoid]

I dont want to rehash it, but the reason he got off is 'insufficient force to cause injury' when pavlich was clearly injured. I mean, come on, thats not even trying to look impartial, its more like rubbing your nose in it.

[Greystache]

This is one of the most tired arguments in all of sport.

Of course there's going to be some late picks better than some early picks, that's just how things work. Doesn't mean you have to force there to be a silver lining here. But for these two examples I could give you hundreds of players chosen in the first round that are better than those chosen later, generally because better players get picked earlier.

We got f***** over, plain and simple.

Perhaps the context is what you should be focussing on, I was pointing out there's no guarantee we'd get a better player with pick 20 than pick 28 which was the theme of the original comment.

[Topdog]

Perhaps the context is what you should be focussing on, I was pointing out there's no guarantee we'd get a better player with pick 20 than pick 28 which was the theme of the original comment.

There are no guarantees in life but you have a much better chance of getting a good player with an earlier pick.

[KT31]

Judd's hit on Pav would have earned most people 4 weeks. Who the hell elbows people in the head?

Seen a bloke in St-Kilda jumper do it last weekend to Picken and not even be sighted.
Yet DFA got a week.

[Topdog]

Oh FFS what Goddard did is not even in the same league to Judd's elbow.

[EasternWest]

Oh FFS what Goddard did is not even in the same league to Judd's elbow.

Couldn't agree more. I've seen Goddard's hit a few times now and think it's a free kick, and that is all. Sure, he made no attempt to stop himself hitting Picken, but nor did he swing an elbow or a fist or look back to make sure he knew exactly where his head was.

Free kick, get on with the game.

NB. I don't like Goddard at all, and do think he's a mug.

[aker39]

Oh FFS what Goddard did is not even in the same league to Judd's elbow.

I agree, but Picken couldn't drive home after the game due to concussion. It must have been a descent hit from Goddard.

[comrade]

Goddard is one of the biggest flogs in the AFL. I'd love nothing more than to see him try and stay stoic as the sweet salty tears flow.

Go Magpies.