Could we be the new Brisbane….?

[Jasper]

And I don’t mean when Voss played, but when he coached and list ‘managed’. Eade is in his last year, if he wants a contract extension he needs performance by round 10 you’d think. The Wallace 'Rhode' to success via trade gambles and quick fixes must be tempting. The players that worry me the most:

McKinley – no defence, no speed, basically a mark and kick mid sized forward – no room for him in the modern game, and especially in the team rated 16th for tackles – 16th placed WCE couldn’t find room for him even though they wanted to release LeCras to the midfield - and they play similar roles.

Sherman – Can’t kick, can’t think….but he can run fast like Forest Gump and Jordie. Why would we recruit a guy with questionable kicking and consistency, we have plenty of these players already?

Tambling – the ‘Bling’, can run….can kick a bit…but is self admittedly mentally fragile (troubled by being picked over Buddy apparently and the associated pressure – never heard Grif, Lids or Roughy whinge about this) not hard at it and is second to the ball. Again why recruit a self-doubting player…no worries we’ll fix that problem??

Rosa – Not a great kick, not really quick, gets a game in a poor midfield that is injury riddled without excelling. A mediocre mid - why would we bother?

People say Eade has done a great job with our list but I wonder how much he relied on guys like Clayton and Drain. Now we have an inexperienced list manager who may not block crazy Eade trades like recruiting Robbo the singer/guitarist/footballer (in that order) with crocked knees….

We need explosive pace, skill, defensive forward pressure. If we can’t draft it then we must trade in these qualities. Some explosively quick players I hope we look at:

Nahas – Only 22 and in out at Tigerland, durable, good tackler and can kick a goal – not a great decision maker but play him close to goal

Leroy Jetta, 23 – A bit of a sick note but has chopped us up the last couple of times he played us, I like him, and he may be about to come good.

Alwyn Davey – a litte older and peanut brittle but can kick a goal and force turnovers with his defensive forward pressure, something only Jarrad Grant brings at the moment.

Winderlich – again has been a sicknote but not too bad recently, can play, is quick and can kick.

A lot of Essendon here, but we have an excess of what they most need to support Watson in the form of hard bodied mids like: Cross, Addison, Boyd, Ward, Reid plus when you consider Libba and Wallis to come…hmmm

[1eyedog]

And I don’t mean when Voss played, but when he coached and list ‘managed’. Eade is in his last year, if he wants a contract extension he needs performance by round 10 you’d think. The Wallace 'Rhode' to success via trade gambles and quick fixes must be tempting. The players that worry me the most:

McKinley – no defence, no speed, basically a mark and kick mid sized forward – no room for him in the modern game, and especially in the team rated 16th for tackles – 16th placed WCE couldn’t find room for him even though they wanted to release LeCras to the midfield - and they play similar roles.

Sherman – Can’t kick, can’t think….but he can run fast like Forest Gump and Jordie. Why would we recruit a guy with questionable kicking and consistency, we have plenty of these players already?

Tambling – the ‘Bling’, can run….can kick a bit…but is self admittedly mentally fragile (troubled by being picked over Buddy apparently and the associated pressure – never heard Grif, Lids or Roughy whinge about this) not hard at it and is second to the ball. Again why recruit a self-doubting player…no worries we’ll fix that problem??

Rosa – Not a great kick, not really quick, gets a game in a poor midfield that is injury riddled without excelling. A mediocre mid - why would we bother?

People say Eade has done a great job with our list but I wonder how much he relied on guys like Clayton and Drain. Now we have an inexperienced list manager who may not block crazy Eade trades like recruiting Robbo the singer/guitarist/footballer (in that order) with crocked knees….

We need explosive pace, skill, defensive forward pressure. If we can’t draft it then we must trade in these qualities. Some explosively quick players I hope we look at:

Nahas – Only 22 and in out at Tigerland, durable, good tackler and can kick a goal – not a great decision maker but play him close to goal

Leroy Jetta, 23 – A bit of a sick note but has chopped us up the last couple of times he played us, I like him, and he may be about to come good.

Alwyn Davey – a litte older and peanut brittle but can kick a goal and force turnovers with his defensive forward pressure, something only Jarrad Grant brings at the moment.

Winderlich – again has been a sicknote but not too bad recently, can play, is quick and can kick.

A lot of Essendon here, but we have an excess of what they most need to support Watson in the form of hard bodied mids like: Cross, Addison, Boyd, Ward, Reid plus when you consider Libba and Wallis to come…hmmm



McKinley is far from a mark and kick forward, saw him kick four in a half at Subiaco and only one of these was kicked from a mark. There are more strings to his bow than people give him credit for, he moves to the right spots, reads the ball well through the air and can lose his opponent but I agree that he is slow and does not have a defensive bone in his body. Sometimes when you have these traits having elite speed isn't so important. He would take the oppositions 3rd best defender but I would say no thanks.

You are right in saying Sherman can't kick, but he runs fast as you say and how many of these have we got? Play him on a half forward flank. IMO he is no different to Winderlich who you said you would like to target??? I am more interested in Sherman that Winderlich because Sherman can also win his own ball, he is harder at it.

I agree with Rosa, seems we would take him only to add depth.

I am not interested in Tambling for reasons outlined in another forum.

I don't rate Nahas, anyone who gets moved on from Richmond is suspect IMO.

Jetta is all over the place with his disposal and decision making, he MAY come good but Sherman and Winderlich offer more atm if we still see ourselves as a challenger for a premiership over the next few years.

[Sockeye Salmon]

And I don’t mean when Voss played, but when he coached and list ‘managed’. Eade is in his last year, if he wants a contract extension he needs performance by round 10 you’d think. The Wallace 'Rhode' to success via trade gambles and quick fixes must be tempting. The players that worry me the most:

McKinley – no defence, no speed, basically a mark and kick mid sized forward – no room for him in the modern game, and especially in the team rated 16th for tackles – 16th placed WCE couldn’t find room for him even though they wanted to release LeCras to the midfield - and they play similar roles.

Sherman – Can’t kick, can’t think….but he can run fast like Forest Gump and Jordie. Why would we recruit a guy with questionable kicking and consistency, we have plenty of these players already?

Tambling – the ‘Bling’, can run….can kick a bit…but is self admittedly mentally fragile (troubled by being picked over Buddy apparently and the associated pressure – never heard Grif, Lids or Roughy whinge about this) not hard at it and is second to the ball. Again why recruit a self-doubting player…no worries we’ll fix that problem??

Rosa – Not a great kick, not really quick, gets a game in a poor midfield that is injury riddled without excelling. A mediocre mid - why would we bother?

People say Eade has done a great job with our list but I wonder how much he relied on guys like Clayton and Drain. Now we have an inexperienced list manager who may not block crazy Eade trades like recruiting Robbo the singer/guitarist/footballer (in that order) with crocked knees….

We need explosive pace, skill, defensive forward pressure. If we can’t draft it then we must trade in these qualities. Some explosively quick players I hope we look at:

Nahas – Only 22 and in out at Tigerland, durable, good tackler and can kick a goal – not a great decision maker but play him close to goal

Leroy Jetta, 23 – A bit of a sick note but has chopped us up the last couple of times he played us, I like him, and he may be about to come good.

Alwyn Davey – a litte older and peanut brittle but can kick a goal and force turnovers with his defensive forward pressure, something only Jarrad Grant brings at the moment.

Winderlich – again has been a sicknote but not too bad recently, can play, is quick and can kick.

A lot of Essendon here, but we have an excess of what they most need to support Watson in the form of hard bodied mids like: Cross, Addison, Boyd, Ward, Reid plus when you consider Libba and Wallis to come…hmmm

What makes you think that the 4 players you want would be available? We can discuss the first 4 because we know they're on the table.

I don't like McKinley or Tambling but if we were to trade Everitt and Hill I would be interested in Rosa and Sherman.

We would have to bring in someone because we would be desperately short of bodies.

Eagleton, Johnson, Akermanis, Harbrow, Callan and probably Hahn will move on. If Hill and Everitt were to leave as well, that's 8 senior size bodies we will be missing. We were running out of blokes by the finals this year to the extent we had to play Callan for his only game and give an elevated rookie a debut in a final.

There will still be plenty of opportunities to play kids but most don't make it through a season, they're simply not physically up to it.

Fans on the internet love to just say play kids, but the reality is that despite us getting all excited by fresh talent, Mitch Hahn would be slaughtered on here for the same contribution that we got from Liam Jones.

Imagine if Gia finished 5 touches, 0 tackles and a goal as a permanent forward pocket, holy cow, Woof would explode!

[GVGjr]

Kelvinator, our trade history under Eade is very conservative and is normally based on getting one out of favor player from another club.
Even if we trade for 2 players this year I don't see how you can compare us to what Brisbane did last season.

There will be more players discussed here as potential additions before the trade period is completed but I doubt we will make wholesale changes.

[stefoid]

Sherman – Can’t kick, can’t think….but he can run fast like Forest Gump and Jordie. Why would we recruit a guy with questionable kicking and consistency, we have plenty of these players already?


genuine LOL.

(P.s. Alwyn Davey ??? :mad:)

[LostDoggy]

This year we hung on to the oldies and recruited one. It was a gamble and failed. Somehow though we still made top four no thanks to most of those oldies. If we draft well and injuries go well next year no reason we cannot be top 8 again. But playing kids should be the priority along with trading for needs. We need quick mids and a quick goal sneek. Not sure you can trade for those without giving up to much.

[Mofra]

Fans on the internet love to just say play kids, but the reality is that despite us getting all excited by fresh talent, Mitch Hahn would be slaughtered on here for the same contribution that we got from Liam Jones.

Imagine if Gia finished 5 touches, 0 tackles and a goal as a permanent forward pocket, holy cow, Woof would explode!
On Hahn, not sure sure I agree - Jones was often a lone hand whilst chasing, demands an opposition tall/genuine CHB, splits very well from Barry (no chop-out to the FB) and didn't compare too badly on a stats basis with Hahn, even including touches which is less relevant as a permanent forward (Hahn played elsewhere during the year)
Averages:
Jones: 1.2 goals 4 marks 9.4 touches 2.2 tackles 3.4 I50s
Hahn: 0.8 goals 5 marks 16.4 touches 2.8 tackles 2.6 I50s

For a guy playing his first few games, after playing mostly school footy, that's outstanding.


On your point about Gia, absolutely. Conversely if Hooper managed 3 goals 1 in a final that we won by only 5 points, he'd be the most discussed player on Woof. Worth noting his last game which was poor by his standards included 11 touches, 2 tackles and a goal.

[Mofra]

Somehow though we still made top four no thanks to most of those oldies.
Way too harsh on Hudson & Hall IMO.

[Curly5]

Mackie? Out of favour at Geelong?

[Sockeye Salmon]

On Hahn, not sure sure I agree - Jones was often a lone hand whilst chasing, demands an opposition tall/genuine CHB, splits very well from Barry (no chop-out to the FB) and didn't compare too badly on a stats basis with Hahn, even including touches which is less relevant as a permanent forward (Hahn played elsewhere during the year)
Averages:
Jones: 1.2 goals 4 marks 9.4 touches 2.2 tackles 3.4 I50s
Hahn: 0.8 goals 5 marks 16.4 touches 2.8 tackles 2.6 I50s

For a guy playing his first few games, after playing mostly school footy, that's outstanding.


On your point about Gia, absolutely. Conversely if Hooper managed 3 goals 1 in a final that we won by only 5 points, he'd be the most discussed player on Woof. Worth noting his last game which was poor by his standards included 11 touches, 2 tackles and a goal.

That's my point. You don't get 10 points for a goal because you're a first year player, how long you've been in the system doesn't count when you're out there. Jones - "He tries hard when he's chasing" - no-one will mention that ever again after next year. He won't chase any less, just after you become a regular senior player it is no longer important. It all becomes about more tangible output.

We need to get games into the kids certainly, but if we try to play too many of them at once we will get smashed. We should be aiming at top 4 again next year and leave the bottom half of the ladder and the rebuilding to the likes of Essendon and Brisbane.

[LostDoggy]

Way too harsh on Hudson & Hall IMO.

3 out of 5 is most.

[LostDoggy]

That's my point. You don't get 10 points for a goal because you're a first year player, how long you've been in the system doesn't count when you're out there. Jones - "He tries hard when he's chasing" - no-one will mention that ever again after next year. He won't chase any less, just after you become a regular senior player it is no longer important. It all becomes about more tangible output.

We need to get games into the kids certainly, but if we try to play too many of them at once we will get smashed. We should be aiming at top 4 again next year and leave the bottom half of the ladder and the rebuilding to the likes of Essendon and Brisbane.
If you have a young midfield you will probably get smashed. However ours is mature. Happy to bring kids into a dis-functional forward line at best. Top 4 is a consequence of doing the right things and building the team. It will happen if make the right decisions.

[Mofra]

That's my point. You don't get 10 points for a goal because you're a first year player, how long you've been in the system doesn't count when you're out there. Jones - "He tries hard when he's chasing" - no-one will mention that ever again after next year. He won't chase any less, just after you become a regular senior player it is no longer important. It all becomes about more tangible output.

I'm not so sure - people are already talking about Collingwood's "swarm" which is the way players run, chase, and harass the opposition ball carrier, shutting down their space.
We still talk about Johnno's propensity not to chase hard, and Hahn's inability to chase due to pace issues. Pressuring the opposition defenders in the attacking 50 is the new black in AFL circles and is an important father in Jones' bow.

[Sedat]

Over the last 6 seasons and 5 trade weeks, Rocket has been anything but irresponsible. He has actually been very prudent with his decisions and has improved the balance of the list immeasurably during that time. Aside from being in the last year of his contract, he is nothing like Rohde. For one thing, he will have no shortage of suitors from other clubs at the end of 2011.

Irrespective, the shake-up at the MC will ensure that one eye on the future will always be in play, and to Rocket's credit he has shown far more inclination to pump game time into our young talent in 2010. I guess being very competitive in the last 3 prelims makes it tempting to maintain some faith in the established senior players, but I guess our inconsistent form in 2010 has exposed this as a bit of a false economy - I have no doubt Rocket understands this as well as anyone.

[Desipura]

I'm not so sure - people are already talking about Collingwood's "swarm" which is the way players run, chase, and harass the opposition ball carrier, shutting down their space.
We still talk about Johnno's propensity not to chase hard, and Hahn's inability to chase due to pace issues. Pressuring the opposition defenders in the attacking 50 is the new black in AFL circles and is an important father in Jones' bow.

Gia has the same issues which you failed to mention.

[Mofra]

Gia has the same issues which you failed to mention.
I'd agree Gia needs to improve, although I don't think he is as bad as Johnno or Hahn - it gets less of a mention in anycase.

How does that change Jones' standing in the team?

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'm not so sure - people are already talking about Collingwood's "swarm" which is the way players run, chase, and harass the opposition ball carrier, shutting down their space.
We still talk about Johnno's propensity not to chase hard, and Hahn's inability to chase due to pace issues. Pressuring the opposition defenders in the attacking 50 is the new black in AFL circles and is an important father in Jones' bow.

No-one cared when he was winning best & fairests.

[Sockeye Salmon]

If you have a young midfield you will probably get smashed. However ours is mature. Happy to bring kids into a dis-functional forward line at best. Top 4 is a consequence of doing the right things and building the team. It will happen if make the right decisions.

Absolutely we need to keep pumping games into kids, but if we lose 8 mature bodies - which is a very good chance of happening - before we have any injuries at all, we would have to play at least 4 first or second year players every week. Half a dozen injuries and nearly half the side would be kids.

[Mofra]

No-one cared when he was winning best & fairests.
In fairness, rebound defence wasn't as big a part of the game as it was now, and as the no 1 forward the defender was less likely to run off.

[Mofra]

Absolutely we need to keep pumping games into kids, but if we lose 8 mature bodies - which is a very good chance of happening - before we have any injuries at all, we would have to play at least 4 first or second year players every week. Half a dozen injuries and nearly half the side would be kids.
Yep, that's what killed Freo later in the season.

Our younger guys tend to have a year or two longer in the system which may help us a little.

Wood, Roughy, Jones, Ward, DFA and Reid will push for gametime and all have a decent amount of bulk on them (especially after another pre-season). Hooper's not too skinny either.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Yep, that's what killed Freo later in the season.

Our younger guys tend to have a year or two longer in the system which may help us a little.

Wood, Roughy, Jones, Ward, DFA and Reid will push for gametime and all have a decent amount of bulk on them (especially after another pre-season). Hooper's not too skinny either.

Wood, Roughead and Reid have all had shoulder problems. Jones will be barely out of his teens and has played 5(?) games. Grant weights about as much as one of my legs.

I expect them all to play most games next year regardless of injuries or not, it's the next group I'm worried about.

If we get injuries, Hooper, Wallis, Liberatore, Howard, Tutt and Cordy could all end up playing half a season each. I can hear people saying this is a good thing already, but if we try and play too many of them at once we will get monstered.

[Mofra]

If we get injuries, Hooper, Wallis, Liberatore, Howard, Tutt and Cordy could all end up playing half a season each. I can hear people saying this is a good thing already, but if we try and play too many of them at once we will get monstered.
True - I'd be more worried if we asked them to play for long periods of the season. Kids tend to get worn out/fatigued which makes them more injury prone when they are playing at the highest level when not physically ready.
Given we rested Grant later in the season, hopefully the MC take the same approach with the younger guys and rest them if needed.

[immortalmike]

Gia has the same issues which you failed to mention.

That couldn't be further from the truth Gia averages almost 4 tackles a game, which is more than Cooney and Griffen who play in the midfield. The only problem Gia has with his defensive efforts is that he runs about as fast as I do.


On the OP: I didn't read anything about our club being linked to any of those players you mentioned apart from Sherman. Most of those players have instead been suggested by overzealous supporters wanting to trade coal for coal and thinking they'll end up with diamonds. Seriously we do this every year, only this year the players being suggested are just as inept but shorter and faster (thanks to the development of Grant and Jones).

[Desipura]

That couldn't be further from the truth Gia averages almost 4 tackles a game, which is more than Cooney and Griffen who play in the midfield. The only problem Gia has with his defensive efforts is that he runs about as fast as I do.


On the OP: I didn't read anything about our club being linked to any of those players you mentioned apart from Sherman. Most of those players have instead been suggested by overzealous supporters wanting to trade coal for coal and thinking they'll end up with diamonds. Seriously we do this every year, only this year the players being suggested are just as inept but shorter and faster (thanks to the development of Grant and Jones).
Yes it could, I am referring to Gia's lack of pace. Hahn was mentioned but Gia was not.

[LostDoggy]

That couldn't be further from the truth Gia averages almost 4 tackles a game, which is more than Cooney and Griffen who play in the midfield. The only problem Gia has with his defensive efforts is that he runs about as fast as I do.


On the OP: I didn't read anything about our club being linked to any of those players you mentioned apart from Sherman. Most of those players have instead been suggested by overzealous supporters wanting to trade coal for coal and thinking they'll end up with diamonds. Seriously we do this every year, only this year the players being suggested are just as inept but shorter and faster (thanks to the development of Grant and Jones).
Gia is a great tackler. Maybe he can join with Hill and run some clinics.

[mjp]

...before we have any injuries at all, we would have to play at least 4 first or second year players every week. Half a dozen injuries and nearly half the side would be kids.

Which is why the 2009 draft was such a disaster.

Howard had better turn out to be an a-grader...he had just better.

[immortalmike]

Yes it could, I am referring to Gia's lack of pace. Hahn was mentioned but Gia was not.

Fair enough.


Gia is a great tackler. Maybe he can join with Hill and run some clinics.

Hill's problem is that he doesn't win the contested ball and rarely displays repeat efforts not that he doesn't chase.

[LostDoggy]

I think we should be conservative again during trade week, as it's not really our talent that's the problem — it's their mental application and game style that needs some serious pre-season overhauling.

If we trade, I want us to trade for pace. Farren Ray has shown that a fast player with poor decision making can be useful as long as they're coached right.

[Desipura]

Farren Ray is not quick. We need to top our list with established players given the experience that has retired. I would be pissed off if we do not pick up at least a few players next week. A goalsneak and an onballer.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Yep, that's what killed Freo later in the season.

Our younger guys tend to have a year or two longer in the system which may help us a little.

Wood, Roughy, Jones, Ward, DFA and Reid will push for gametime and all have a decent amount of bulk on them (especially after another pre-season). Hooper's not too skinny either.

Collingwood and St. Kilda now lead the way in committed relentless type team football.
We need to get a lot better in this area and that is why younger players like Grant, Jones, Wood, Roughead,Ward, Wallis and Liberatore become so important to our future.
Cross and Picken lead the way in their ferocity as does Hudson but this needs to become wider spread throughout the team. Our lack of depth proved costly in 2010 and combined with ageing and tired bodies, we probably were fortunate to finish top 4.
Harbrow will be a big loss as he was one of our few really consistent performers throughout the year. Walker providing he is over his injuries would be a good pick up at age 24, giving him a 4 year advantage over the likes of Gilbee and Hargrave in age.