Western Bulldogs chase Blues star Andrew Walker

[BulldogBelle]

* Jon Ralph and Mark Stevens
* From: Herald Sun
* September 28, 2010 12:00AM

Walker, 24, is contracted to Carlton but the Blues have given the former No. 2 draft pick permission to speak to the Bulldogs.

He has already met Adelaide, which is desperate to recruit high-profile players.

The Blues have rebuffed a direct swap for out-of-favour Bulldog Andrejs Everitt.

They regard Walker, a 100-game player, as significant currency, despite his history of shoulder injuries.

The Bulldogs will use their first two draft selections on father-son picks Mitchell Wallis and Thomas Liberatore, lessening their options.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/western-bulldogs-chase-blues-star-andrew-walker/story-e6frf9jf-1225930405577

[chef]

Please make it happen:).

[Bulldog Revolution]

Good athlete, not exactly sure where he would play in our setup

Doesn't kick it that well, or make great decisions

[Mantis]

Since when did Andrew Walker become a 'star'?

[chef]

Since when did Andrew Walker become a 'star'?

When he was drafted at number 2:D, I thought the same thing when I saw the headline.

[bornadog]

Sounds like Everitt, Hill and Stack are all wanting out.

[Mantis]

Sounds like Everitt, Hill and Stack are all wanting out.

It's hardly surprising.

[LostDoggy]

I'm more interested in getting our hands on Djerrkura

[LostDoggy]

I'm more interested in getting our hands on Djerrkura

If its only gunna cost us a 4th round, dont see why not!

[Greystache]

Please make it happen:).

Chef do you think he's much more than a slightly more athletic version of Addison?

[chef]

Chef do you think he's much more than a slightly more athletic version of Addison?

I'm probably the wrong person to ask for an unbiased opinion on Andrew. I would say he would be a more athletic Hill but quicker with better intensity and a longer kick.

[Desipura]

Walker does not mind the body on body contact, can play a run with role as well as get his own footy. Is flexible enough to play multiple positions ie. down back or up forward as well as play in the middle.

Kicked a few goals in the final against Sydney and provided a good marking option.
Walker is the type of player we need, 24yo with 100 games experience and does not shirk a contest.

[Greystache]

I'm probably the wrong person to ask for an unbiased opinion on Andrew. I would say he would be a more athletic Hill but quicker with better intensity and a longer kick.

You may be somewhat. :D That's a fair wrap!

[chef]

You may be somewhat. :D That's a fair wrap!

I know:D.

[hujsh]

"But Adelaide would have to give up something exceptional to trump the Bulldogs."

Exactly how much are we willing to give up? There was not mention of what we could trade other than on-traded draft picks (including Harbrow compensation) possibly packaged with Everitt.

[EasternWest]

Since when did Andrew Walker become a 'star'?

Since the reporter took Carlton's word for it.

[Mofra]

Interesting that Everitt is deemed not good enough to get the deal done. Carlton's reputation of being horrible to deal with just gained more traction.

[Greystache]

Interesting that Everitt is deemed not good enough to get the deal done. Carlton's reputation of being horrible to deal with just gained more traction.

I'm not sure Melbourne would agree with that- Pick 11 for Brock McLean LOL!

[Grantysghost]

Has been very injury prone, so would be a risky pickup. Positive side he may be able to slot into Harbrows role.

[LostDoggy]

Would prefer Justin Sherman before Walker.
Walkers got a dodgy shoulder.
We dont need another like that.
IIRC Reid & Roughead are both in for shoulder surgery in the off season.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Everitt + Harbrow's compensation pick would be a disaster for us. Walker would be a good fit, but not at that price.

I don't mind losing Hill and Stack as much, but I still think Everitt is a best 22 player.

[Mantis]

Everitt + Harbrow's compensation pick would be a disaster for us. Walker would be a good fit, but not at that price.


I doubt very much we would over-pay in this way.

I would think that as per last year if we don't get a good deal for Everitt (or Hill for that matter) they will probably stay put.

[Desipura]

We must remember that Eade will want to use the Harbrow pick during his reign. It might well mean that we pay a little over the odds to get an experienced player to somewhat replace the experience that has departed.
Especially if the MC think we can challenge again next year, which I am sure they do.

[Remi Moses]

We must remember that Eade will want to use the Harbrow pick during his reign. It might well mean that we pay a little over the odds to get an experienced player to somewhat replace the experience that has departed.
Especially if the MC think we can challenge again next year, which I am sure they do.

Agree, Pretty good swingman and hard at the contest.Does AW tackle ?

[Desipura]

Agree, Pretty good swingman and hard at the contest.Does AW tackle ?1.4 tackles a game in 16 games this year. This would indicate not.

[chef]

Everitt + Harbrow's compensation pick would be a disaster for us. Walker would be a good fit, but not at that price.

I don't mind losing Hill and Stack as much, but I still think Everitt is a best 22 player.

How about Everitt and pick 27 for Walker and pick 36?

[lemmon]

In all honesty I would prefer to keep Everitt, Walker doesn't really interest me at all. May be a good athlete but one thing we don't need is another bloke with poor skills and/or decisions pumping the ball long into nothingness. He has probably been earmarked for a defensive role to free up Boyd/Cross when a simple twinge in game plan for these guys is needed.

To combat the frantic attack of Collingwood good decisions and clean skills are needed, we already have an excess of hard at it mids with questionable skills. Drafting another one is a step backward especially when considering the waywardness of our forward fifty entries this year.

[jazzadogs]

Surely Everitt has more upside than Walker?

If we can hold onto Dre, then there is no need for Walker. If Dre is definitely gone, then fair enough.

[Dancin' Douggy]

In all honesty I would prefer to keep Everitt, Walker doesn't really interest me at all. May be a good athlete but one thing we don't need is another bloke with poor skills and/or decisions pumping the ball long into nothingness. He has probably been earmarked for a defensive role to free up Boyd/Cross when a simple twinge in game plan for these guys is needed.

To combat the frantic attack of Collingwood good decisions and clean skills are needed, we already have an excess of hard at it mids with questionable skills. Drafting another one is a step backward especially when considering the waywardness of our forward fifty entries this year.

With all due respect, the LAST thing we need is Boyd and Cross freed up.
If anything they need to be tightened up and play more accountable football.

[lemmon]

With all due respect, the LAST thing we need is Boyd and Cross freed up.
If anything they need to be tightened up and play more accountable football.

Thats exactly my point, we have little need for a guy like Walker when we have both Boyd and Cross who should be capable of playing a similar big bodied, shut down role.

[LostDoggy]

Surely Everitt has more upside than Walker?

If we can hold onto Dre, then there is no need for Walker. If Dre is definitely gone, then fair enough.

Agree


How about Everitt and pick 27 for Walker and pick 36?

Id take that, not sure if Carlton would.

[LostDoggy]

Would love to get Djerrkura & for a late pick, i think would be gettable.

I haven't seen a lot of him, is more an outside player?

[LostDoggy]

Would like to see Sherman, Walker and Djerrkura at the Dogs.

Its time to roll the list over from the ones that couldnt get us past a PF.

[FrediKanoute]

I like the fact that we are looking to be active in trading.

Walker, don't know much about him other than he was a high draft pick. Yep not all turn out to be stars, but if he has been helfd back by injury and we don't give away the kitchen sink as well as the house to get him then yeah lets do it.

Djerrkura, again semi high draft pick who hasn't done much and has struggled to break into a very good Geelong side. No disgrace there, though would query whether he is a little behind developmentally as a result.

[azabob]

Would love to get Djerrkura & for a late pick, i think would be gettable.

I haven't seen a lot of him, is more an outside player?

You haven't seen him yet you want him? Personally Im more wondering why he hasn't got games at Geelong? Prismal aparently was a gun but unlucky, his form at Essendon indicates perhaps he wasn't that unlucky. I have the same fear Djerkura will be like Callen a depth player only. Prefer to draft a young player.

[LostDoggy]

You haven't seen him yet you want him? Personally Im more wondering why he hasn't got games at Geelong? Prismal aparently was a gun but unlucky, his form at Essendon indicates perhaps he wasn't that unlucky. I have the same fear Djerkura will be like Callen a depth player only. Prefer to draft a young player.

I would take him because of the current draft situation, he has a few attributes which we need, speed being one.

[GVGjr]

Would love to get Djerrkura & for a late pick, i think would be gettable.

I haven't seen a lot of him, is more an outside player?

He is very strong defensively as well with his work ethic. Would be a nice addition and someone who could fill out that small defensive forward option as well as kicking a goal or two.

[azabob]

I would take him because of the current draft situation, he has a few attributes which we need, speed being one.

True on both accounts but he doesn't use the ball that well and he is injury prone.

[GVGjr]

Would like to see Sherman, Walker and Djerrkura at the Dogs.

Its time to roll the list over from the ones that couldnt get us past a PF.

Sherman isn't someone that would be high on the list if I was recruiting because his contract is too high.

[LostDoggy]

He is very strong defensively as well with his work ethic. Would be a nice addition and someone who could fill out that small defensive forward option as well as kicking a goal or two.

From what i remember, he is also a very big guy.

I wonder what his tank is like, would be interesting to see if he could rotate through the middle.


True on both accounts but he doesn't use the ball that well and he is injury prone.

A new club could bring a new lease on life, for a late round pick, i would take the punt.

[GVGjr]

From what i remember, he is also a very big guy.

I wonder what his tank is like, would be interesting to see if he could rotate through the middle.



Djerrkura is powerfully built but is short. I think he could take his turn in the middle but he is more likely a genuine small forward.

[1eyedog]

Djerrkura is powerfully built but is short. I think he could take his turn in the middle but he is more likely a genuine small forward.

If we picked him up seems like direct competition for Hooper.

[boydogs]

If we picked him up seems like direct competition for Hooper.

Considering Geelong play Stokes, Byrnes & Varcoe in the same side, he may be able to play in the same side as Hooper if they are both going well

[jazzadogs]

Considering Geelong play Stokes, Byrnes & Varcoe in the same side, he may be able to play in the same side as Hooper if they are both going well
Milne and Schneider too.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Geelong with the seemingly inevitable change of coach. If there is no announcement/appointment before trade week, how active will they be?

[soupman]

If we picked him up seems like direct competition for Hooper.

In no way is that a bad thing.

[BulldogBelle]

In no way is that a bad thing.

Strongly agree

If one could kick 30 to 40 goals in 2010 I would be wrapped

[lemmon]

Djekurra (sp?) seems extremely similiar to Stack for mine, not lightning quick, big bodied and more suited to playing in the midfield. I don't think he's the saviour.

[LostDoggy]

Djekurra (sp?) seems extremely similiar to Stack for mine, not lightning quick, big bodied and more suited to playing in the midfield. I don't think he's the saviour.

From what Ive seen, he's nothing like Stack. IMO Stack is not up to it. Djerrkura appears to have more natural talent, I reckon he's well worth a punt, as long as we dont give up too much.
It would also depend on the coaching situation at Geelong. If a new coach comes in, he may want to give Djerrkura some opportunites.

[Greystache]

A new club could bring a new lease on life, for a late round pick, i would take the punt.

I'd be reluctant to take any pleayer from Geelong other than a regular who wants to leave for a specific reason. The only player they've lost that has been any good at his next club is Mumford, and they desperately didn't want to lose him. The others who were supposed to be good players who just couldn't get a game because of how strong Geelong's team were have all been ordinary players elsewhere, ie Prismall, Callan, Playfair, Gardiner, or can we forget Peter Street!

[Desipura]

I just checked Djerkurra's stats
in 2009 he played 3 games and laid 15 tackles (5 a game). Kicked no goals
in 2010 he played 1 game for 2 tackles, no goals.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Djerkurra's main problem is finding the ball IMO. Whilst he always looks lively, he doesn't get his hands on the ball enough. This - coupled with suspect disposal - means I'd only take him for SFA.

[Ghost Dog]

In all honesty I would prefer to keep Everitt, Walker doesn't really interest me at all. May be a good athlete but one thing we don't need is another bloke with poor skills and/or decisions pumping the ball long into nothingness. He has probably been earmarked for a defensive role to free up Boyd/Cross when a simple twinge in game plan for these guys is needed.

To combat the frantic attack of Collingwood good decisions and clean skills are needed, we already have an excess of hard at it mids with questionable skills. Drafting another one is a step backward especially when considering the waywardness of our forward fifty entries this year.

This ^^^^
So injury prone. An athlete but....

[Desipura]

I do not think we will get Walker as Carlton appear to want a little more than we are willing to offer.
This is how I would like it to pan out
Everitt St Kilda for a 2nd round pick.

Sherman to the Dogs with that same pick (we would take up the 3/4 of his salary that Brisbane are currently paying him).

Tambling to the Dogs with our 1st round (compensation pick) with Richmond paying him majority of the salary.

In an ideal world I would not want to give up a 1st round however sometimes you need to take a risk. He is currently contracted to the tigers and there would be a number of clubs seriously looking at him.

As I mentioned previously, I think Tambling has the biggest upside of all players that are linked to us. I know a number of you will strongly disagree with paying so much for Tambling however that is my take.

Hill to WCE for Rosa. Stack for Djerkurra or a late draft choice.

If clubs enquired about Minson and offered us something reasonable, I would seriously look at it. The days of 2 genuine ruckman in the one side are diminishing.

[lemmon]

I would prefer Veszpremi to Djekurra, is capable of playing as a small forward or an outside mid with clean skills, good pace and an eye for a goal. Attitude is seemingly a problem but I doubt we would have to give up much.

[LostDoggy]

Would love to get Jeff Garlett. Would let Carlton name their price.

[Mantis]

Would love to get Jeff Garlett. Would let Carlton name their price.

What would that be?

I would be thinking from our young guys they would want Grant, Wood or Ward or a pick inside the top 12.

No thanks.

[hujsh]

I'd be reluctant to take any pleayer from Geelong other than a regular who wants to leave for a specific reason. The only player they've lost that has been any good at his next club is Mumford, and they desperately didn't want to lose him. The others who were supposed to be good players who just couldn't get a game because of how strong Geelong's team were have all been ordinary players elsewhere, ie Prismall, Callan, Playfair, Gardiner, or can we forget Peter Street!

Who thought they were good? They were always spuds.

[Desipura]

Who thought they were good? They were always spuds.
Prismall was the only one of those that was rated.

[Topdog]

I'd be reluctant to take any pleayer from Geelong other than a regular who wants to leave for a specific reason. The only player they've lost that has been any good at his next club is Mumford, and they desperately didn't want to lose him. The others who were supposed to be good players who just couldn't get a game because of how strong Geelong's team were have all been ordinary players elsewhere, ie Prismall, Callan, Playfair, Gardiner, or can we forget Peter Street!

It's interesting isn't it? For all the talk that Geelong are a powerhouse and it is very hard to break into their side there actually have been enough new players come into it (Brynes, Varcoe when he was crap and a few others esp. in the fwd line). I think if you are good enough you will get games and 4 games in 2 years doesn't look good IMO.

[hujsh]

Prismall was the only one of those that was rated.

Agreed. But those two especially were VFL players at best

[Greystache]

It's interesting isn't it? For all the talk that Geelong are a powerhouse and it is very hard to break into their side there actually have been enough new players come into it (Brynes, Varcoe when he was crap and a few others esp. in the fwd line). I think if you are good enough you will get games and 4 games in 2 years doesn't look good IMO.

Agree, which is one of the reasons I'm not overly excited about chasing Djerrkura. No team, no matter how could they supposedly are, have 22 stars. There has been numerous opportunities for these guys who aren't regulars to stamp their place in the team, none of them have.

[Remi Moses]

Agree with Desipura in regards to Tambling,he's got the biggest upside without doubt.
Don't think We'll get Walker as Carlton want the world!
Sherman's salary might scare us off I'd reckon
Rosa No thankyou

[hujsh]

Agree, which is one of the reasons I'm not overly excited about chasing Djerrkura. No team, no matter how could they supposedly are, have 22 stars. There has been numerous opportunities for these guys who aren't regulars to stamp their place in the team, none of them have.

Yes however that doesn't mean they can't prosper in a new environment.

[Ghost Dog]

Dammit. I can See Everrit really prospering with a change in club. He has looked good on field despite his questionable work rate ( the only reason he has been out, correct me if I am wrong? )
. Would hate to lose him.

[LostDoggy]

Funny how we see Everitt prospering at another club (including me) but we can't see it happening in reverse with us getting a recycled player.

Whichever way we go I reckon we need some pace and some of the names mentioned would have it.

[chef]

Todd Viney was in Echuca/Moama over the weekend to visit a mutual friend and said the Crows would only take one of Walker and Jacobs(with Jacobs being the one).

Everyone up here is still fairly confident AW is going to end up a Dog, but a three way is probably going to be the way it happens.

He had a pretty uncomfortable night last night at the Blues B&F thanks to the article in the H/S.

[Ghost Dog]

This from a Carlton supporters site, for what it's worth

http://www.carltonsc.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=15694&highlight=walker


Now to the inside info ( from Carlton B and F night)

Had a good chat with Steven Icke (at least 5 mins). I asked him about a whole range of trade topics, and he said the following things:

WALKER -

-Swann said that he is a now a big chance to stay.
-Asked about Everitt and he said that we knocked them back straight away.
-Also said that the doggies have "f**k all" on their list they can give us or are willing to give us, so a trade with them is highly unlikely.
-I forgot to ask about the Adelaide interest but i got the impression in his tone and body language that Walker to Adelaide was no longer likely.

[Ghost Dog]

Does having trade history with other clubs in the past ( EG Moles / cats ) make any difference / make it easier to get the Djerrukra deal done?

[chef]

This from a Carlton supporters site, for what it's worth

http://www.carltonsc.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=15694&highlight=walker


Now to the inside info ( from Carlton B and F night)

Had a good chat with Steven Icke (at least 5 mins). I asked him about a whole range of trade topics, and he said the following things:

WALKER -

-Swann said that he is a now a big chance to stay.
-Asked about Everitt and he said that we knocked them back straight away.
-Also said that the doggies have "f**k all" on their list they can give us or are willing to give us, so a trade with them is highly unlikely.
-I forgot to ask about the Adelaide interest but i got the impression in his tone and body language that Walker to Adelaide was no longer likely.

The coach doesn't want him there and he wants out, so I guess we'll see.

[chef]

Does having trade history with other clubs in the past ( EG Moles / cats ) make any difference / make it easier to get the Djerrukra deal done?

Moles was taken through the rookie draft, but Geelong did donate Tim Callan to us for a late pick a couple of years ago.

[GVGjr]

Dammit. I can See Everrit really prospering with a change in club. He has looked good on field despite his questionable work rate ( the only reason he has been out, correct me if I am wrong? )
. Would hate to lose him.

A lot of players do succeed at other clubs because they are often given a task that suits them and the fact that it's normally a timely wake-up call for them.
Ray has done exceptionally well for the Saints and has just about doubled his tackle count from when he played with us. He has obviously responded well to the tasks Lyon has given him.

If Everitt was to succeed elsewhere (I really don't think he will be traded) it will be because a team has a specific spot for him which is something he hasn't been able to establish himself with us. Perhaps it's the likes of Morris and Hargrave holding him back in defence or now Grant and Jones taking away an opportunity up forward.

It wouldn't surprise me if Everitt kicked on with another side.

[LostDoggy]

Sherman isn't someone that would be high on the list if I was recruiting because his contract is too high.

Agree he isnt worth anything near his asking price no matter what Brisbane pays. What happens after the 2nd year? We ask him to take a 500k a year paycut I dont think so.


Would love to get Djerrkura & for a late pick, i think would be gettable.

I haven't seen a lot of him, is more an outside player?

Im told by Cat Supporters he is much the same as Varcoe just a little slower. Id like to get him if its cheaply.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Not surprising that Walker was not in the top 10 of the Carlton B&F

[BulldogBelle]

Not surprising that Walker was not in the top 10 of the Carlton B&F

Walker....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Cons
Bad shoulders- injury prone
Bad shoulders- means that he cant hold players while tackling, or be as strong in marking contests...think Mitch Hahn now (exciting when he was 24, a creaky old man at 28!)
Bad decision maker

Pros
Doesnt shy away from a contest
Quick, hard running
Can kick a goal when playing up forward
Could play in both the midfield and as a forward

I would be happy to obtain his services, but NOT as a direct swap for Everitt!

[Remi Moses]

Swann's not going to come out and say he's going,but you'd have to imagine if he's not getting on with Ratten he's goneski!

[Desipura]

I think we need to trade Everitt so we dont run the risk of losing him next year as an uncontracted player.
Its obvious he is not in Eade's bext 22, how is it going to change next year?
GVGjr, why would you want to retain him and potentially lose him for nothing next year?

[The Pie Man]

SENTrade Talk has tweeted just after 11 am this morning that 'Andrew Walker wants to go to the Western Bulldogs' FWIW

[Dancin' Douggy]

If that comes to pass we end up with the number 1 and 2 picks from that draft!

[Ghost Dog]

would rather Everitt than Walker myself. Unless he gets some teflon shoulder implants. :)

[LostDoggy]

If we do trade for Djerkurra, does anybody think that either he or Hooper will be earmarked to take over Harbrow's attacking defender role in 2011? Keeping in mind that Hooper played most of his junior footy in defence, averaging good numbers and even for his size ranking high in marks from oposition kicks.

[Mofra]

If we do trade for Djerkurra, does anybody think that either he or Hooper will be earmarked to take over Harbrow's attacking defender role in 2011? Keeping in mind that Hooper played most of his junior footy in defence, averaging good numbers and even for his size ranking high in marks from oposition kicks.
At 172cm Hooper will struggle at AFL level as a defender IMO. If he was earmarked for the role, he would have spent time ther at VFL level (he spent almost all his time forward).

Djerkurra plays midfield at VFL level. I actually think we are ok for Harbrow's replacement with Wood & Murphy playing back - Wood provides the run & drive, and Murphy the creativity.

[chef]

SENTrade Talk has tweeted just after 11 am this morning that 'Andrew Walker wants to go to the Western Bulldogs' FWIW

I posted this in the 'trading' thread, he has chosen the Dogs as the club he wants to get traded to. He's not overly confident of getting his wish as he's still contracted, Carlton are pricks to deal with and they will over price him(and they don't want Everitt).

[Ghost Dog]

At 172cm Hooper will struggle at AFL level as a defender IMO. If he was earmarked for the role, he would have spent time ther at VFL level (he spent almost all his time forward).

Djerkurra plays midfield at VFL level. I actually think we are ok for Harbrow's replacement with Wood & Murphy playing back - Wood provides the run & drive, and Murphy the creativity.

Murph: I agree, but worry a bit about his knee. Racking up the operations. Anyway, we need more than one creative half back. Options if injured?

[Remi Moses]

I posted this in the 'trading' thread, he has chosen the Dogs as the club he wants to get traded to. He's not overly confident of getting his wish as he's still contracted, Carlton are pricks to deal with and they will over price him(and they don't want Everitt).

Yeah great for club morale with 3 players wanting out ! Don't underestimate Eade's caginess in trade week.

[The Doctor]

SENTrade Talk has tweeted just after 11 am this morning that 'Andrew Walker wants to go to the Western Bulldogs' FWIW

One thing you have to admire about Rocket is his ability to attract good footballers to our club.

[The Coon Dog]

One thing you have to admire about Rocket is his ability to attract good footballers to our club.

A far cry from Jade Rawlings who had to be dragged kicking & screaming & couldn't find the exit door quick enough.

[Sockeye Salmon]

A far cry from Jade Rawlings who had to be dragged kicking & screaming & couldn't find the exit door quick enough.

Or such AFL royalty like Ben Holland refusing to play for us. Talk about dodge a bullet there.

[KT31]

A far cry from Jade Rawlings who had to be dragged kicking & screaming & couldn't find the exit door quick enough.

Wish he had found it quicker.

[MrMahatma]

Murph: I agree, but worry a bit about his knee. Racking up the operations. Anyway, we need more than one creative half back. Options if injured?
Isn't Howard earmarked for HBF?

[Mofra]

Murph: I agree, but worry a bit about his knee. Racking up the operations. Anyway, we need more than one creative half back. Options if injured?
With Lake, Williams, Murphy, Morris, Wood, Hargrave and Gilbee we have 7 already to rotate into 6 spots, and I'm assuming Howard wont play at all in 2011 and only start to establish himself as a player in 2012.
This also excludes Tutt from calculations as well as whoever we draft & rookie this year.

[Ghost Dog]

The teams that have really done well this year are the onese who have driving half backs.
At times this season we really seemed to struggle getting it out of our 50.
Perhaps Walker would give us the extrattack needed to compete with the likes of Shaw / O'brien or Goddard. Without Murph or Harbrow in our HB line we definately seem a bit predictable.