Collingwood

[bornadog]

No matter if you hate them or not, they are a club with amazing success over 100 years of football and their club culture and their ability to give something to their fans is to be admired. 40 grandfinals and 15 flags says it all. At the start of the season Collingwoods goal was to win the premiership, not make the GF but go all the way.

Something has to be done at the kennel to take us to the next level, I don't know what it is, but I am sick and tired of not getting to a grand final let alone winning one.

Is it our culture?

Is it the coaching staff we choose?

Is it the type of players we recruit?

Do we have a loser mentality, a mentality that says IF
- if Libba had of kicked that goal,
- If we had our best players in,
- If another club had of beaten such and such and we made it to 2nd or 1st spot,
- If the umpire had of paid that free. etc etc

We need to soul search this summer and break the drought, because I am sick of watching other teams in the GF.

[AndrewP6]

Sadly, I agree with pretty much all of that. Not totally sure of the answer, to be honest. I think a lot is above the shoulders, with our lack of premiership success hanging over us. I honestly thought they could go on after the Who Cares Cup, but it seemed a different team come Round 1. Fresh injection of players via Trade Week might give them a spur.

I feel a review a la Geelong 2006 coming on.

[GVGjr]

I'll focus on a few other learning's that we can take away from Collingwood.

Trading - Look at the way Collingwood added much needed experience in Jolly and Brown and weren't scared to cough up drafts picks.

Team selection - Collingwood weren't afraid to make the hard call on Fraser, Presti and even Leon Davis whereas as we couldn't pull the trigger on Hahn or Eagleton.
The Pies clearly appreciate and reward consistent performers even if the player isn't a star.

Recruitment and development - I want Everitt to have a look at Nathan Brown and Ben Reid who both got picked very close to him in the draft. Neither of them are stars but they are prepared to work hard and play a role.
Addison you need to have a look at what a limited player Toovey offers the Pies. He's not great but there is a consistency of performance that the coach can use.
Eade and his coaching team would do well have a look at the way Malthouse can reinvent players and define the role that he wants them to perform.

Identifying multi positional players - Malthouse pulled off a coup when he decided to back in Jolly with support from Brown. It worked out very well for them.

Handling distractions - We clearly struggled with the Akermanis antics whereas the Pies easily defended the constant focus on the whole Buckley/Malthouse changeover questions.

Club President - Big Ed doesn't get led around by the AFL on issues that he believes are important to his club like clash jumpers etc.

I don't want people to get defensive on these points but I thought the Pies were very professional during the season and there must be some lessons we can learn from that.

[mighty_west]

No matter if you hate them or not, they are a club with amazing success over 100 years of football and their club culture and their ability to give something to their fans is to be admired. 40 grandfinals and 15 flags says it all. At the start of the season Collingwoods goal was to win the premiership, not make the GF but go all the way.

Something has to be done at the kennel to take us to the next level, I don't know what it is, but I am sick and tired of not getting to a grand final let alone winning one.

Is it our culture?

Is it the coaching staff we choose?

Is it the type of players we recruit?

Do we have a loser mentality, a mentality that says IF
- if Libba had of kicked that goal,
- If we had our best players in,
- If another club had of beaten such and such and we made it to 2nd or 1st spot,
- If the umpire had of paid that free. etc etc

We need to soul search this summer and break the drought, because I am sick of watching other teams in the GF.

One of my pet hates is hearing supporters say lets hope we get to a Grand Final, bugger that, lets hope we win Premierships, i would HATE to go through what the Saints have the past 2 years, all they did was progress one week further than what we did, yet they failed both years, we just have to have a ruthless mindset, and never accept second best.

We were at least an equal of Collingwood last year, possibly just ahead of them, yet they are 2010 Premiers, and we are no further than the last 2 years before, and that stinks.

[LostDoggy]

I'll focus on a few other learning's that we can take away from Collingwood.

Trading - Look at the way Collingwood added much needed experience in Jolly and Brown and weren't scared to cough up drafts picks.

Team selection - Collingwood weren't afraid to make the hard call on Fraser, Presti and even Leon Davis whereas as we couldn't pull the trigger on Hahn or Eagleton.
The Pies clearly appreciate and reward consistent performers even if the player isn't a star.

Recruitment and development - I want Everitt to have a look at Nathan Brown and Ben Reid who both got picked very close to him in the draft. Neither of them are stars but they are prepared to work hard and play a role.
Addison you need to have a look at what a limited player Toovey offers the Pies. He's not great but there is a consistency of performance that the coach can use.
Eade and his coaching team would do well have a look at the way Malthouse can reinvent players and define the role that he wants them to perform.

Identifying multi positional players - Malthouse pulled off a coup when he decided to back in Jolly with support from Brown. It worked out very well for them.

Handling distractions - We clearly struggled with the Akermanis antics whereas the Pies easily defended the constant focus on the whole Buckley/Malthouse changeover questions.

Club President - Big Ed doesn't get led around by the AFL on issues that he believes are important to his club like clash jumpers etc.

I don't want people to get defensive on these points but I thought the Pies were very professional during the season and there must be some lessons we can learn from that.

Not sure anyone could get defensive, they're all sound, valid points.

[LostDoggy]

Add
The draw - hardily ever have to travel, rarely not playing at the G, and hog most of the blockbuster days which builds membership and the club.

Favourable coverage - The media's darling, 'sells papers'. Pushes the brand like no other.

Hardly our fault as a football club that the majority of the melbourne people with IQs less than 50 support Colingwood

[Topdog]

Pies had one of the toughest draws going this year and travelled 4 times Chops. Not a valid argument this year.

[LostDoggy]

Pies had one of the toughest draws going this year and travelled 4 times Chops. Not a valid argument this year.

How was it tough? Play Carlton Richmond Essendon twice. Which club travels less than collingwood.

[LostDoggy]

I'll focus on a few other learning's that we can take away from Collingwood.

Trading - Look at the way Collingwood added much needed experience in Jolly and Brown and weren't scared to cough up drafts picks.

Team selection - Collingwood weren't afraid to make the hard call on Fraser, Presti and even Leon Davis whereas as we couldn't pull the trigger on Hahn or Eagleton.
The Pies clearly appreciate and reward consistent performers even if the player isn't a star.

Recruitment and development - I want Everitt to have a look at Nathan Brown and Ben Reid who both got picked very close to him in the draft. Neither of them are stars but they are prepared to work hard and play a role.
Addison you need to have a look at what a limited player Toovey offers the Pies. He's not great but there is a consistency of performance that the coach can use.
Eade and his coaching team would do well have a look at the way Malthouse can reinvent players and define the role that he wants them to perform.

Identifying multi positional players - Malthouse pulled off a coup when he decided to back in Jolly with support from Brown. It worked out very well for them.

Handling distractions - We clearly struggled with the Akermanis antics whereas the Pies easily defended the constant focus on the whole Buckley/Malthouse changeover questions.

Club President - Big Ed doesn't get led around by the AFL on issues that he believes are important to his club like clash jumpers etc.

I don't want people to get defensive on these points but I thought the Pies were very professional during the season and there must be some lessons we can learn from that.

Top post, agree 100%.

[EasternWest]

Addison you need to have a look at what a limited player Toovey offers the Pies. He's not great but there is a consistency of performance that the coach can use.
that.


Top post, agree 100%.

Wow. That is spectacularly unfair on Addison. His intent is unquestionable and his improvement continues at pace. I agree with most of what you say, but I think it's incorrect to point the finger at a guy like Dylan, who would know exactly where he fits in the pecking order.

[angelopetraglia]

Let's not forget.

Easily the biggest supporter base just ready to be tapped. This gives them an undeniable advantage when it comes to making their club very powerful from a financial perspective.

Was at the game again today, could not believe how many supporters they have. It is just unbelievable. I'm sure the Bulldogs convert just as many if not more followers to members. Actually I'm confident that we convert more.

Lots of supporters, with good management = financial powerhouse = best fitness resources, best coaching resources, best facilities, best development resources etc.

The one thing the Magpies have done unbelievably well is the development of their youth. They were the first to have dedicated development coaches and it has been paid back in spades. In the last few years no club has promoted youth that has had such a large impact from their first game.

Credit to them, they were easily the best side in it this year. But they have a lot of things going for them.

2 flags in 52 years for the most powerful club in the land is still not a pass mark. However, I would do anything just do be able to drink from the Premiership cup just once, I'm not greedy.

It was torture being their today, I admire the Magpies, but gee whiz, I still hate them with everything I have ...

[mighty_west]

Let's not forget.

Easily the biggest supporter base just ready to be tapped. This gives them an undeniable advantage when it comes to making their club very powerful from a financial perspective.

Was at the game again today, could not believe how many supporters they have. It is just unbelievable. I'm sure the Bulldogs convert just as many if not more followers to members. Actually I'm confident that we convert more.

Lots of supporters, with good management = financial powerhouse = best fitness resources, best coaching resources, best facilities, best development resources etc.

The one thing the Magpies have done unbelievably well is the development of their youth. They were the first to have dedicated development coaches and it has been paid back in spades. In the last few years no club has promoted youth that has had such a large impact from their first game.

Credit to them, they were easily the best side in it this year. But they have a lot of things going for them.

2 flags in 52 years for the most powerful club in the land is still not a pass mark. However, I would do anything just do be able to drink from the Premiership cup just once, I'm not greedy.

It was torture being their today, I admire the Magpies, but gee whiz, I still hate them with everything I have ...

Agree with everything you said there, especially the youth, days of having to go in with your most experienced is a thing of the past, and they showed this year that no matter what their names are or how many games played, doesn't give you free tickets to get a game, it puts every player on notice from round 1 to make sure you work your ass off to get a game, and doesn't put noses out of joint or lose younger players confidence if they really deserve a game ahead of experienced players.

[KT31]

No matter if you hate them or not, they are a club with amazing success over 100 years of football and their club culture and their ability to give something to their fans is to be admired. 40 grandfinals and 15 flags says it all. .

WE do have a better win / loss ratio.:D

[Before I Die]

Agree with everything you said there, especially the youth, days of having to go in with your most experienced is a thing of the past, and they showed this year that no matter what their names are or how many games played, doesn't give you free tickets to get a game, it puts every player on notice from round 1 to make sure you work your ass off to get a game, and doesn't put noses out of joint or lose younger players confidence if they really deserve a game ahead of experienced players.

What makes you think Collinwood's model of bringing in young players would necessarily be as successful at other clubs? They spend more on the football department than any other team. This goes into developing these young players and drilling them in the team game plans. They have their own VFL team and an army of specialist coaches and technicians. This was the smart move that Eddie made. He knew they had the most money and he was sure that had to transferable into an on-field advantage. They can't cheat the salary cap anymore so they poured it into every other aspect of the football department that had the possibility of giving them an edge.

I am not saying it is wrong to give young players an opportunity, but if people believe that that is all a team needs to do to win a premiership they are kidding themselves. Just like the Grant Thomas article, it is easy to pick out whatever facts one likes to support ones own argument. Three of the last four AFL Premierships have been won by teams with their own VFL team. Perhaps this is the silver bullet? I watched today's game with 4 friends. At the end of the game we all picked our Norm Smith Medallist. We came up with 5 different Collingwood players. This Premiership was one by the best football department in the league.

[mighty_west]

What makes you think Collinwood's model of bringing in young players would necessarily be as successful at other clubs? They spend more on the football department than any other team. This goes into developing these young players and drilling them in the team game plans. They have their own VFL team and an army of specialist coaches and technicians. This was the smart move that Eddie made. He knew they had the most money and he was sure that had to transferable into an on-field advantage. They can't cheat the salary cap anymore so they poured it into every other aspect of the football department that had the possibility of giving them an edge.

I am not saying it is wrong to give young players an opportunity, but if people believe that that is all a team needs to do to win a premiership they are kidding themselves. Just like the Grant Thomas article, it is easy to pick out whatever facts one likes to support ones own argument. Three of the last four AFL Premierships have been won by teams with their own VFL team. Perhaps this is the silver bullet? I watched today's game with 4 friends. At the end of the game we all picked our Norm Smith Medallist. We came up with 5 different Collingwood players. This Premiership was one by the best football department in the league.

Unfortunately time & time again we end up a little short and unfortunately a select few have failed in the big games, Rocket even made comment himself that he should have given more game time to a few kids, to at least have more options when it counts rather than just going in with experienced players whatever the case.

When it comes to my own opinion about this, i have watched our finals in 08, the Geelong & Hawthorn losses, in 09 the Saints & Geelong losses, in 2010 the Saints & Collingwood losses, all big finals against strong teams with an intensity & workrate that beat us each time [except for last years Prelim where it could have gone either way], and players that just don't lift when they are expected to when the heat rises, and have a history of not stepping up, that says something to me.

I also don't really care about depth unless that depth can be relied on to play their part in the heat of the battle, and the only way to do that is by experience at the top level, Collingwood have showed the way this year by not always relying on players that have failed in the past or near their use by date - Fraser, Lockyer, O'bree to name a few, the positive was that Grant stepped up, Roughead showed how good he is going to be in patches, Wood now a regular, all positives, but we just didn't go far enough imo, regularly relying on those that have not stepped up when it counted.

I like to think that we had to be in a position with pressing 3 years in a row to be able to go in with good depth, a team of say 29 or 30 players that have experience to play their role and play that role well when required, especially when injuries hit, and the only way to do that is give more experience to more players, if a player is not fit enough to play decent enough, he simply shouldn't play, and bringing in one or two kids here & there into a strong team shouldn't disrupt things enough to be the difference between winning & losing games, a position we have been in.

By saying your mates came up with 5 players from todays game, because they have the best football dept in the league, we might as well just shut up shop in that case.....btw, my pick was Jolly.

[GVGjr]

Wow. That is spectacularly unfair on Addison. His intent is unquestionable and his improvement continues at pace. I agree with most of what you say, but I think it's incorrect to point the finger at a guy like Dylan, who would know exactly where he fits in the pecking order.

Consistency of performance is what I'm after from Addison and I do believe that is his issue.
I'm not knocking his commitment because he's terrific in that area but he certainly isn't getting a regular game like Toovey and yet Addison has him covered physically. Toovey proves to me that coaches will stick with players despite some flaws if they perform to a consistent level most weeks. If the top side can find a regular spot for Toovey, Addison needs to aim to become a regular senior player with us.

[Desipura]

Toovey is extremely quick, coming off half back he burnt off his opponents. In fact their whole backline has pace and strength, a lethal combination.

[Topdog]

How was it tough? Play Carlton Richmond Essendon twice. Which club travels less than collingwood.

Geelong, Saints and Bulldogs twice. Essendon travelled less.

[Before I Die]

By saying your mates came up with 5 players from todays game, because they have the best football dept in the league, we might as well just shut up shop in that case.....btw, my pick was Jolly.

I don't follow your logic here. My point about the difficulty in picking the Norm Smith medallist was that no player really stood out, there was no single match winner. What Collingwood have is the best game plan with a complete buy in by all players. That game plane has been devised by their football department and the committment of the players has similarly been developed by their football department. That doesn't mean we can't learn from it, or extend it, or develop a better plan. I just think the argument that Collingwood won because they had youth is a bit simplistic. Last week St Kilda could have just as easily won and they certainly haven't been bringing in young players.

BTW the picks were Swan, Jolly, Pendelbury, N. Brown and Thomas.

[mighty_west]

I don't follow your logic here. My point about the difficulty in picking the Norm Smith medallist was that no player really stood out, there was no single match winner. What Collingwood have is the best game plan with a complete buy in by all players. That game plane has been devised by their football department and the committment of the players has similarly been developed by their football department. That doesn't mean we can't learn from it, or extend it, or develop a better plan. I just think the argument that Collingwood won because they had youth is a bit simplistic. Last week St Kilda could have just as easily won and they certainly haven't been bringing in young players.

BTW the picks were Swan, Jolly, Pendelbury, N. Brown and Thomas.

I believe playing more kids or giving kids a better run at it can create a better & more healthy depth within a club, therefor given that clubs best chance of success, and not always falling into a trap of playing the same old same olds, just because they have notched up their games tally, there is no reason why Reid & Goldsack & Brown have swept right past Everitt for example, last year & the year before especially Reid & Goldsack & Toovey have been whipping boys for Pies supporters [but getting every opportunity], fast forward to this year and are now Premiership players, Nathan Brown was able to have enough experience to dislodge arguable their best key defender & most experienced to play a shut down role on Reiwoldt in a Grand Final!! we kept falling in a trap of playing injured players not fit enough to justify been given games, and that started in round one with our captain.

Bringing in depth players, but actually giving them games, because if they were drafted in to be required in case of injury [Markovic a classic case], so that if Williams and or Lake went down during finals, he wouldn't be thrown in the deep end when we need 22 players that can make a difference, and not just make up a number on the ground.

[Before I Die]

It seems the answer is now at hand. We need more History of War scholars on our coaching panel. GVGjr I seem to recall that this may be your area of expertise.


Romans inspired Pies' game plan
Link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/103603/default.aspx)

Oh yeh, and money helps. Here is a quote from Eddie.

"You look at the years of going to Arizona when people laughed at us. We got the Westpac Centre and people laughed at us and we had lots of coaches and people laughed at us, but you’ve got to stick to your convictions. You’ve got to keep the plan in place and hope that you’re on the right course".

[LostDoggy]

Geelong, Saints and Bulldogs twice. Essendon travelled less.

So only 1 side travels less. Even playing those good sides twice it's not a tough draw considering they spent the last 3 months basically at the g and play those crap side a lot.

[The Underdog]

It seems the answer is now at hand. We need more History of War scholars on our coaching panel. GVGjr I seem to recall that this may be your area of expertise.


Romans inspired Pies' game plan
Link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/103603/default.aspx)

Oh yeh, and money helps. Here is a quote from Eddie.

"You look at the years of going to Arizona when people laughed at us. We got the Westpac Centre and people laughed at us and we had lots of coaches and people laughed at us, but you’ve got to stick to your convictions. You’ve got to keep the plan in place and hope that you’re on the right course".

Who laughed at them?
Oh yes, build a giant training centre with elite facilities right near the ground you play at 75% of the time. Fools. What were they thinking?

[AndrewP6]

Who laughed at them?
Oh yes, build a giant training centre with elite facilities right near the ground you play at 75% of the time. Fools. What were they thinking?

:D

Eddie loves embellishing things to suit his own cause...Nick did mention war after the Penultimate Final last week, maybe Mick's words are seeping into the brain..

[LostDoggy]

I'll focus on a few other learning's that we can take away from Collingwood.

Trading - Look at the way Collingwood added much needed experience in Jolly and Brown and weren't scared to cough up drafts picks.

Team selection - Collingwood weren't afraid to make the hard call on Fraser, Presti and even Leon Davis whereas as we couldn't pull the trigger on Hahn or Eagleton.
The Pies clearly appreciate and reward consistent performers even if the player isn't a star.

Recruitment and development - I want Everitt to have a look at Nathan Brown and Ben Reid who both got picked very close to him in the draft. Neither of them are stars but they are prepared to work hard and play a role.
Addison you need to have a look at what a limited player Toovey offers the Pies. He's not great but there is a consistency of performance that the coach can use.
Eade and his coaching team would do well have a look at the way Malthouse can reinvent players and define the role that he wants them to perform.

Identifying multi positional players - Malthouse pulled off a coup when he decided to back in Jolly with support from Brown. It worked out very well for them.

Handling distractions - We clearly struggled with the Akermanis antics whereas the Pies easily defended the constant focus on the whole Buckley/Malthouse changeover questions.

Club President - Big Ed doesn't get led around by the AFL on issues that he believes are important to his club like clash jumpers etc.

I don't want people to get defensive on these points but I thought the Pies were very professional during the season and there must be some lessons we can learn from that.

No need to get defensive, I think your post was correct in many ways. Collingwood haven't been afraid to drop non-performing players and give the younger ones a game - I think a lot can be learned from this. I guess most teams now will be examining the Collingwood culture etc., to see what they can take from it? Well done Pies - I'm very glad they beat the Aints!:D

[LostDoggy]

Something like 7 top 10 draft picks, a great run with rookies, hardly an injury and hardly if ever have to play on an indoor carpark!

[Topdog]

So only 1 side travels less. Even playing those good sides twice it's not a tough draw considering they spent the last 3 months basically at the g and play those crap side a lot.

Well I did 0 minutes research I just know for a fact that Essendon travelled less. 4 is a decent enough amount of travel. They had a harder draw than us that is for sure.

[LostDoggy]

Well I did 0 minutes research I just know for a fact that Essendon travelled less. 4 is a decent enough amount of travel. They had a harder draw than us that is for sure.

Well maybe you should do some research or improve your math. 4 is only one more than Essendons 3 the lowest and consider we had to travel 6 times, Geelong 5, Saints 6, and Carlton 5.
17 games at the MCG including the last 7 straight just before 3 finals there is not a hard draw.
Stop listening to the Malthouse or Collingwood spin.

[Mantis]

Well maybe you should do some research or improve your math. 4 is only one more than Essendons 3 the lowest and consider we had to travel 6 times, Geelong 5, Saints 6, and Carlton 5.
17 games at the MCG including the last 7 straight just before 3 finals there is not a hard draw.
Stop listening to the Malthouse or Collingwood spin.

Does that include the 2 'home' games we sold?

Collingwood are the biggest drawing team in the competition so to maximise revenue, which the AFL see as being more important than equity they play Collingwood against the other 'big 4' teams twice each season to increase attendances & revenue.

[Mantis]

Something like 7 top 10 draft picks, a great run with rookies, hardly an injury and hardly if ever have to play on an indoor carpark!

5. Didak, Thomas, Pendlebury, Reid & Brown.... They traded Tarrant to Freo for one of these top 10 picks.

They also rolled us twice on the indoor carpark.

[LostDoggy]

Does that include the 2 'home' games we sold?

Collingwood are the biggest drawing team in the competition so to maximise revenue, which the AFL see as being more important than equity they play Collingwood against the other 'big 4' teams twice each season to increase attendances & revenue.


Agreed.

Not to mention i'm sure every Melbourne based team who plays home games at the MCG when putting in requests for there draw to the AFL would request to play a home game Vs Collingwood and the MCG.

[LostDoggy]

Does that include the 2 'home' games we sold?

Collingwood are the biggest drawing team in the competition so to maximise revenue, which the AFL see as being more important than equity they play Collingwood against the other 'big 4' teams twice each season to increase attendances & revenue.

Not disputing that. Different argument. To say they had a hard draw is wrong and just because it's a little harder than last 5 years still doesn't put them on equal setting with most other clubs.
Also we sell games cos we don't get collingwood's dream run.

[KT31]

Not disputing that. Different argument. To say they had a hard draw is wrong and just because it's a little harder than last 5 years still doesn't put them on equal setting with most other clubs.
Also we sell games cos we don't get collingwood's dream run.

We sell games because we don't get Collingwood's numbers and we were stitched up with the old Etihad deal.

[bornadog]

Collingwood are the biggest drawing team in the competition so to maximise revenue, which the AFL see as being more important than equity they play Collingwood against the other 'big 4' teams twice each season to increase attendances & revenue.

The result of the AFL being shorted sighted is that Collingwood are growing bigger and bigger and clubs like us, North cannot compete with their riches and membership numbers. The AFL may be maximising revenue but killing smaller clubs in thye long term Maybe thats what they want.

[Topdog]

Well maybe you should do some research or improve your math. 4 is only one more than Essendons 3 the lowest and consider we had to travel 6 times, Geelong 5, Saints 6, and Carlton 5.
17 games at the MCG including the last 7 straight just before 3 finals there is not a hard draw.
Stop listening to the Malthouse or Collingwood spin.

Games against teams that finished 2010 in the 8
Bulldogs: 10
Collingwood: 12


Collingwoods draw was harder than ours.

Our draw was so peachy this year and we struggled for 4th, an awful year.

[LostDoggy]

Games against teams that finished 2010 in the 8
Bulldogs: 10
Collingwood: 12


Collingwoods draw was harder than ours.

So 1 aspect out of 10 is better than us so that mean they have a harder draw?
Go back and do some more research.

[Mantis]

So 1 aspect out of 10 is better than us so that mean they have a harder draw?
Go back and do some more research.

What are the other 9?

[Topdog]

What are the other 9?

I'm very interested in hearing these other aspects aswell.

[mighty_west]

At the end of the day, does it really matter who has a better home & away draw?

Once the top 4 sides were sort out, all Vic teams, it was pretty much an even playing field from that point on.

[LostDoggy]

What are the other 9?

:rolleyes: Only I get this in depth questioning

Things like Interstate games, number of blockbusters, breaks between games, games at the G, televised games, etc. All contruibute to whether or not your draw is good.
Its definetely not just how many top 8 sides you play.

[LostDoggy]

I'm very interested in hearing these other aspects aswell.

Thank you for your interest.
Done your research yet?

[LostDoggy]

At the end of the day, does it really matter who has a better home & away draw?

Once the top 4 sides were sort out, all Vic teams, it was pretty much an even playing field from that point on.

No doubt Collingwood was the best side all year. GVjr made a lot of valid points on why, just think the draw is one of many that should be considered as well.
No doubt all top 4 sides would have loved 7 games straight at the G prior finals. Surprised no one thinks the lack of interstate or movement in this period contributed to there low injury rate.

[Sockeye Salmon]

The AFL didn't know who would be in the finals before the season started - not even the AFL is that corrupt yet.

I'm way to lazy and apathetic to check, but could someone who cared check how many of last years finalists they played?

[Mantis]

Things like Interstate games, number of blockbusters, breaks between games, games at the G, televised games, etc. All contruibute to whether or not your draw is good.
Its definetely not just how many top 8 sides you play.

That isn't 9, but anyway.

The only one's of any importance from what you listed are interstate travel, breaks between games & where you play.

We have already gone through interstate games.

In respect to breaks between games the only thing taken into consideration with that is the number of 6 day breaks you have:

Collingwood - 6, W.B - 5

I will say that we had many more 7 day breaks than Collingwood (about 4 more) while Coll had about the same amount more in 8 day breaks.

Where you play is another factor as it's been reported that players struggle to get up after repeated games at ES, but since that venue is our home ground we will struggle to get many people supporting our cause.... If we drew an average of over 50K to our games we could move to the 'G, but as we don't we are stuck playing at ES and have to deal with the consequences of playing there.

[Mantis]

I'm way to lazy and apathetic to check, but could someone who cared check how many of last years finalists they played?

11.

As did we.

[LostDoggy]

Some would argue the number of blockbusters you play in helps you in front of the big crowds of the finals?
There is no doubt the exposure you get through more blockbusters, friday night games, telecast free to air games,etc gets you more fans and more money. I believe Collingwood's riches finally won them a premiership. One wonders if Collingwood would be still be the richest club in the league if they had no Anzac days or other blockbusters , our tv coverage and our stadium deals.

[mighty_west]

No doubt Collingwood was the best side all year. GVjr made a lot of valid points on why, just think the draw is one of many that should be considered as well.
No doubt all top 4 sides would have loved 7 games straight at the G prior finals. Surprised no one thinks the lack of interstate or movement in this period contributed to there low injury rate.

That's the big one for me, the best side for the year, i can't remember anytime we have reached a Prelim and actually been the best side of any year.

The draw, where you play your games, televised games etc don't mean too much when you consider in the past decade, Brisbane, Port, West Coast, Sydney & Geelong certaintly didn't go in with the best draws, have the most televised games, play the majority of their home & away games at the G etc etc etc.

Heck, Brisbane, West Coast & Sydney also had to travel every second week, didn't exactly stop their chances of being the best sides & winning the big one.

[Topdog]

Thank you for your interest.
Done your research yet?

Yep proved rather easily that Collingwood had a more difficult draw than us.

[LostDoggy]

Yep proved rather easily that Collingwood had a more difficult draw than us.

By you ignoring all the facts.
They played as many games against top 8s as we did, had less interstate travel, didn't move from the G in the last 10 weeks but they had a harder draw????

[Topdog]

By you ignoring all the facts.
They played as many games against top 8s as we did, had less interstate travel, didn't move from the G in the last 10 weeks but they had a harder draw????

incorrect. Played more against the top 4 too.

[LostDoggy]

incorrect. Played more against the top 4 too.

Which part did I write that was incorrect?
Ok believe what you want to believe.

[Topdog]

The bolded bit. See
http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showpost.php?p=184736&postcount=35

So you think we played more against other top 4 teams as well?

[LostDoggy]

Responding to the OP: The one thing that I would pick out from Collingwood that is worth something is the forward thinking off and on-the-field management culture. Eddie, hate him or love him (I'm the former, by the way), for all his faults has brought some interesting changes to the succession planning of coaches that may reduce wholesale change in a successful system and hopefully create a more holistic transition, and Malthouse has certainly led the way in the balance and risk management of the playing list -- very pragmatic, not much room for sentiment, and quite low-risk recruitment in picking players with solid physical attributes balanced with reasonable skill, CLEARLY earmarked for well-defined roles in the game plan (unlike Clayton, who was a lot more speculative, resulting in a relatively chaotic and unbalanced, if highly mercurial, list). Even in recruiting they went hard for two class players that met a clear need rather than a scattergun approach for players that 'may' fit the bill.

The gameplan is also player driven in that the leadership group drive the buy-in and adherence to it, which probably also means that those that don't live up to it are marginalised, not by the coaches, but by their peers.

Having said all that, I am not that impressed with the Pies in the overall sense -- this is a club with the biggest fanbase in Australia and clearly the most financial muscle in Victoria, yet this is only their second Premiership in donkeys years. From a resource to success ratio they have clearly underachieved. This year, a few factors fell into place for them (Ball/Jolly recruitment, youngsters developing faster than expected, O'Brien having a career best year, a gameplan that worked), but we clearly had their measure in the last few years so couldn't have been far off -- if our stars had stayed injury free and it was Swan, Thomas and Maxwell injured (rather than Coons, Higgins and Johnno) our respective seasons may very well have been very different. After all, our mature recruits were also some of our best players this year (Bazza, Huddo). With all their advantages, the Pies should be much, much further ahead of the pack than they are.

[LostDoggy]

The bolded bit. See
http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showpost.php?p=184736&postcount=35

So you think we played more against other top 4 teams as well?
What ever

[bornadog]

Some would argue the number of blockbusters you play in helps you in front of the big crowds of the finals?
There is no doubt the exposure you get through more blockbusters, friday night games, telecast free to air games,etc gets you more fans and more money. I believe Collingwood's riches finally won them a premiership. One wonders if Collingwood would be still be the richest club in the league if they had no Anzac days or other blockbusters , our tv coverage and our stadium deals.

and this is exactly what I hate about the AFL and the unfairness of the whole competition. It bloody well stinks.