Fremantles approach to List Management

[GVGjr]

I have watched Fremantle go about building their playing with a bit of interest.

There isn't a lot of tall players on the list.
They haven't been big traders over the last two seasons except for McPhee.
They have focused on getting a lot of players from the various state leagues primarily defenders and promoting players from their rookie list.
They improved dramatically last season.

I'm not sure if there are any lessons to be learned by their approach but it's quite a contrast to ours.
Have they struck on a winning formula or has there just been an element of luck?

[soupman]

Surely it's a bit of both.

They've targeted mature age players who are likely to slip through the draft and have fixable deficiencies. Mature age players were also very unfashionable for a time and Fremantle have been happy to ignore that and give them an opportunity. That said, like all recruiting, a fair bit of luck is involved.

[LostDoggy]

I have watched Fremantle go about building their playing with a bit of interest.

There isn't a lot of tall players on the list. And that cost them a final when Sandilands pulled up lame
They haven't been big traders over the last two seasons except for McPhee. But prior to that they merrily traded for Soloman and Johnson etc which probably put them off for a while
They have focused on getting a lot of players from the various state leagues primarily defenders and promoting players from their rookie list. Nobody has a better record of success with the Rookie list than us
They improved dramatically last season. About time

I'm not sure if there are any lessons to be learned by their approach but it's quite a contrast to ours.
Have they struck on a winning formula or has there just been an element of luck?

They got Barlow and now they are the yardstick?

[Bulldog Revolution]

I've also been impressed with what Freo have done over the past 2 years

Under Harvey and co they've completely re-jigged their list

I've been particularly impressed with their rookie picks Duffield, Barlow, De Boer, Broughton obviously Sandilands etc - hard to describe that as anything other than brilliant

And when they get early picks their recruiting crew do a good job: Hill, Morabito

Plus they knew what they were doing with Broughton, Ballantyne, and loved what I saw of Fyfe in 2010

I wasn't completely sold on Silvagni, but hes competitive and Faulks gives them more depth back there,

[LostDoggy]

They got Barlow and now they are the yardstick?

Tend to agree with EJ's post. They've probably under-achieved more than most, so a goodish year looks better than it really is.

We've probably eked out as much from our list as could have been expected over the last 5 years, with the number of successful rookies and mature age trades that we've made. The only disappointment would be with some of the earlier draft picks from 6-10 years ago, but of those with Coons and Griff being genuine guns, and serviceable to very good players in Williams, Higgins and Grant I guess that's probably on the right side of average. While having a solid list with plenty of good stories, we've always been just two or three genuine match-winners short, and a lot of that just comes down to the luck of the draw at times, you can't really plan for a deep draft year vs. a shallow one -- with Ward and our two F/S pickups this year the wheel may just have turned our way a bit, although I do wish at times that we were just that bit more bold with our trading, but that's probably the soccer in me talking.

[MrMahatma]

They got Barlow and now they are the yardstick?
Agree - one swallow a summer does not make...

However, they're better than they were only a handful of years ago. Harvey has been good for them IMO.

[GVGjr]

They got Barlow and now they are the yardstick?

Not at all. Their whole approach over the last few seasons has been to raid the state leagues and push undervalued rookies through their system.
I also like they way that they worked with GC and got a couple of more guys that will add some depth to their list.

Rather than being critical of what they are doing I thought it offered somewhat of a contrast to our approach and worth discussing.

[GVGjr]

Agree - one swallow a summer does not make...

However, they're better than they were only a handful of years ago. Harvey has been good for them IMO.

I think Chris Bond also might have been one of the architects with their focus on State League footballers.

[Go_Dogs]

Their whole approach over the last few seasons has been to raid the state leagues and push undervalued rookies through their system.
I also like they way that they worked with GC and got a couple of more guys that will add some depth to their list.

Agree with that. It's not just Barlow, but quite a few other players too that were more mature, and have also not been afraid to pull the gun on mature players early in the ND.

They've also snared some good young players through the rookie draft recently who have played quite a bit of senior footy over the past couple of years.

Their top end drafting has also been pretty good too IMO.

Their strategy is pretty good IMO, as whilst they don't ignore the longer term at all, they also slightly balance the favour towards the shorter term too, which has probably been a good move given the age of some of their core, star players.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree with what's been said, but how do Fremantle improve? Besides natural development in their younger list? They still look like they are lacking a bit. In 2-3 years time, Pavlich and Sandilands won't be where they are currently.

They are in a good position in that they should consistently make finals for the next 3-4 years, but I can't see them making the jump to top 2 or 3.

Barlow getting back to his best is a huge key to any future success.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Bah! Ignore this, computer froze.

[The Adelaide Connection]

I think their recriuting of late has been very good and they have beautifully assessed and targeted their needs like Sydney always seem to do or Collingwood did last year.

However IMO I think that it could be more of a case of finally playing closer to their potential. On paper versus results I think they have massively underachieved for a long, long time.

It always amuses me that year after year the experts would tip them to break into the eight (and you would look at their team and agree) and year after year they would be a sensational flop.

Getting off to a good start last year and breaking their losing culture may have been the most critical element of their turn around. They talk about teams not being able to break the mental barrier of finals, what about teams not being able to break the mental barrier of getting the job done in the regular season (especially on the road in their case)?

[LostDoggy]

Agree with the above. Not top 4 side.

I would expect Barlow to find it a little harder next season. I doubt Pav has another level to go to and I think a lot of the younger list is still very developmental - as shown in the late season punishment we dished out at Etihad. Some of them I am still not convinced about - Palmer, Duffield, etc. But I thought that about Mundy and was wrong there.

That said, there is a lot more depth than we are used to from Freo. I guess they can finally leave Grover out.

They've got a few likeable players too. I'm a big fan of Ibbotson, Hill, Pav and Hayden.

[Raw Toast]

I think Chris Bond also might have been one of the architects with their focus on State League footballers.

Any chance we can get him back at some stage in the nearish future? He left to further his coaching ambitions but now seems content with a more managerial role. I wonder how much of a role he had in the trades with GC.

From an outsider's point of view he seems ideally suited to a list management role, which could suit us down to the ground...

[Greystache]

Any chance we can get him back at some stage in the nearish future? He left to further his coaching ambitions but now seems content with a more managerial role. I wonder how much of a role he had in the trades with GC.

From an outsider's point of view he seems ideally suited to a list management role, which could suit us down to the ground...

Agree, if we can find the funds I think he'd be an excellent list manager.

[Cyberdoggie]

I think Chris Bond also might have been one of the architects with their focus on State League footballers.

He would of been a fantastic coach for us if he was given the chance.

Still today one of the best i've had the pleasure of listening to at vfl level.


Freo has also focussed on keeping it's list young. They got rid of Tarrant at the right time, and they have found a good vfl full back with plenty of potential in Faulks.

Where as we tend to hold on to our senior players until they can't walk anymore. I'm not saying this is wrong but it does create list management and team selection issues.

[chef]

He would of been a fantastic coach for us if he was given the chance.

Still today one of the best i've had the pleasure of listening to at vfl level.


Freo has also focussed on keeping it's list young. They got rid of Tarrant at the right time, and they have found a good vfl full back with plenty of potential in Faulks.

Where as we tend to hold on to our senior players until they can't walk anymore. I'm not saying this is wrong but it does create list management and team selection issues.

Tarrant walked, they would happily kept him over picking up Faulks.

[LostDoggy]

Where as we tend to hold on to our senior players until they can't walk anymore. I'm not saying this is wrong .

How can this NOT be wrong?

[Sockeye Salmon]

How can this NOT be wrong?

It fosters the'club' aspect as compared to a bunch of professional athletes who just happen to wear the same colour jumper each week.

The minute we start treating our players like commodities we relinquish any right to expect any kind of loyalty in return.

If we want the likes of Griffen and Cooney to turn their backs on big $$$ contracts then we have to give them something back - what we give them is the knowledge that the minute their pace starts to drop off we won't throw them out like last seasons fashions.


Obviously the time comes when you have to give them the tap on the shoulder - and some players have to be dragged out kicking and screaming - but to offload them to another club before they're finished just because you get a good offer for them is wrong.

By all means you can let them know they might struggle to get a game next year and for the good of their careers they should look around - Mitch Hahn, perhaps, but you don't shop around a Daniel Cross, Lindsay Gilbee or Matthew Boyd unless you genuinely think they won't be in your best 22 next year.

[chef]

It fosters the'club' aspect as compared to a bunch of professional athletes who just happen to wear the same colour jumper each week.

The minute we start treating our players like commodities we relinquish any right to expect any kind of loyalty in return.

If we want the likes of Griffen and Cooney to turn their backs on big $$$ contracts then we have to give them something back - what we give them is the knowledge that the minute their pace starts to drop off we won't throw them out like last seasons fashions.


Obviously the time comes when you have to give them the tap on the shoulder - and some players have to be dragged out kicking and screaming - but to offload them to another club before they're finished just because you get a good offer for them is wrong.

By all means you can let them know they might struggle to get a game next year and for the good of their careers they should look around - Mitch Hahn, perhaps, but you don't shop around a Daniel Cross, Lindsay Gilbee or Matthew Boyd unless you genuinely think they won't be in your best 22 next year.

Nice post SS and I agree with this.

[LostDoggy]

Good post SS, and I don't think we're talking about the same thing -- you're talking about loyalty and respect, I'm talking about keeping and playing players that are clearly past their use-by date.

There are many ways to show loyalty and respect that doesn't damage our ability as a club to win on the field -- there are always assistant coaching positions, assistance with getting to another club of their choice etc. or, as you said, a gentle tap on the shoulder and a post-season chat about the next two, three years. I wasn't entirely happy about the Scott West situation, for example (agree he had to retire, disagree with both parties about how it was handled) and I never suggested shopping your loyal sons around -- that WOULD be disrespectful.

But keeping players on your list that are no longer able to play the game -- it's both counter-productive AND disrespectful to these players' legacies. As much as I loved watching Brad go around in the Semi and Prelim, his legacy should never have been tarnished by those last, limping games.

Mitch Hahn is no longer an AFL player by ANY metric, yet he may end up next year lining up on a half-forward flank, or worse, a half back flank, and we will watch him get a new one torn every week and yell and write obsceneties about him. A loyal servant whose body just can't do the job anymore doesn't deserve that.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Any chance we can get him back at some stage in the nearish future? He left to further his coaching ambitions but now seems content with a more managerial role. I wonder how much of a role he had in the trades with GC.

From an outsider's point of view he seems ideally suited to a list management role, which could suit us down to the ground...

Chris Bond was very highly regarded by our senior players who all spoke very well of him during his time at the WB. He was also instrumental in the recruitment of Barlow after he was overlooked by other AFL clubs. I believe he would be ideal in a list management type role or as football manager.