Picks 37 and 66 for Hill, snubbed

[Ghost Dog]

From the age

Hawthorn list management guru Chris Pelchen said his club offered picks 37 and 66 for Bulldog Josh Hill, and he was "somewhat perplexed" as to why the deal had foundered, especially since the original deal was for only a second round pick. He felt the Dogs had simply changed their minds about trading the gifted but out-of-favour forward.

link (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tarrant-a-pie-once-more-20101011-16eiz.html?rand=1286751524221)

That's a really hard call being a pretty reasonable offer for a guy who has not had much of the leather in senior's 2010, and not exactly setting the world alight in the VFL either. The club must have a lot of faith in Josh. It's strange, as J wanted to leave the club. Anyone in the know have an angle on this re why the deal fell thru?

[Mofra]

I wouldn't believe Pelchan. Unless a Bulldog source mentions it he can't be trusted.

Did he mention they were on the table at the same time?

[stefoid]

Becasue 10 minutes to go didnt give us enough time to structure a deal for Walker, after 4 days of stuffing us around, so we told them to shove it.

[aker39]

I wouldn't believe Pelchan. Unless a Bulldog source mentions it he can't be trusted.

Did he mention they were on the table at the same time?


See here http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?p=186833#post186833

[KT31]

Becasue 10 minutes to go didnt give us enough time to structure a deal for Walker, after 4 days of stuffing us around, so we told them to shove it.

Agree, if that was the original offer, IMO we would have taken it.
We could have turned around with a minute to go and said we will take pick 139 for Hill and know there was no time left.
Its how you put a spin on it.
I think Pelchen is spewing he missed out on Hill and is trying to justify it to the Hawks why he missed out.

[hujsh]

Yeah, if we couldn't use the Hill deal to get Walker cause we got screwed around then I understand us changing what we wanted for him.

[Doc26]

It's not to say that pick 37 would've even cut it to get the Walker deal done. It would appear Carlton had Walker categorised as a 2nd rounder, not 3rd and then there was salary cap issues to deal with. I suggest once the possible Minson / GC deal fell through we were always going to struggle to get the Walker deal through on cap alone.

[Mofra]

If it was a serious offer, why wait until the final 10 minutes of the trade period?

Sounds like PR Pelchan is covering his arse.

[stefoid]

It's not to say that pick 37 would've even cut it to get the Walker deal done. It would appear Carlton had Walker categorised as a 2nd rounder, not 3rd and then there was salary cap issues to deal with. I suggest once the possible Minson / GC deal fell through we were always going to struggle to get the Walker deal through on cap alone.

pick 37 is a 2nd rounder.

[Doc26]

pick 37 is a 2nd rounder.

Stefoid you're correct in this compromised draft with the swag of compensation picks.

In any case I can recall Walker's manager saying that for the deal to get done Carlton were asking for a pick b/w 10 and 20.

[aker39]

Stefoid you're correct in this compromised draft with the swag of compensation picks.

In any case I can recall Walker's manager saying that for the deal to get done Carlton were asking for a pick b/w 10 and 20.


So we were basically hoping for a swap of Hill for Walker.

[Prince Imperial]

Eerily, those are the same picks we got in 1999 when we traded Leon Cameron to Richmond. Hahn and Hargrave ensued. What were the odds of these same picks? ;)

[Doc26]

So we were basically hoping for a swap of Hill for Walker.

I'm not sure how we were going to ever manufacture the Walker trade if we needed to come close to Carlton's wish. Probably holding out as we did with the Sherman impasse although in this case we didn't have a close enough trade to play with. Maybe we were hoping like Carlton with Walker for an inflated valued with Josh's trade worth. In any case the Minson deal not going through probably killed it off and we ended up with what happened with Pelchen.

[bornadog]

I'm not sure how we were going to ever manufacture the Walker trade if we needed to come close to Carlton's wish. Probably holding out as we did with the Sherman impasse although in this case we didn't have a close enough trade to play with. Maybe we were hoping like Carlton with Walker for an inflated valued with Josh's trade worth. In any case the Minson deal not going through probably killed it off and we ended up with what happened with Pelchen.

Still can't understand why Suns would go for Josh Dud instead of Minno.

[Doc26]

Still can't understand why Suns would go for Josh Dud instead of Minno.

Both Fraser and Will can go forward, thought Will with his big body and youth on his side might've got him over the line.

Would seem that Guy McKenna's and now Shane Obree's Collingwood background may have played a part in this decision just as Clayton's Bulldog background probably played a part in having Will even under serious consideration. Appears Clayton in the end was trumped.

The Krakour pre-listing deal with the Suns might've been the clincher as the Suns picked up pick #25 from Collingwood which was then used as part of the Brennan trade.

[LostDoggy]

Eerily, those are the same picks we got in 1999 when we traded Leon Cameron to Richmond. Hahn and Hargrave ensued. What were the odds of these same picks? ;)

You remember this fact? From 11 years ago? I am astonished by some of the people on this forum.

[LostDoggy]

You remember this fact? From 11 years ago? I am astonished by some of the people on this forum.

I'm not. ;):rolleyes::)

[LostDoggy]

I guess Josh now has only one option and that is to work his arse off and try to do the things he needs to do to get a regular gig in the side. If he has a bad season his currency will plummet and he might find himself playing in the WAFL in 2012.

[LostDoggy]

Why can't Josh be our 'Offensive Player?' We now have Sherman to add to all the other 'defensive players.' I'm really glad we didn't send Josh off to other places and I hope he gets his chances more next year.

[LostDoggy]

Why can't Josh be our 'Offensive Player?' We now have Sherman to add to all the other 'defensive players.' I'm really glad we didn't send Josh off to other places and I hope he gets his chances more next year.

I agree. He is who he is, he has strengths and weaknesses, whether they fit what the team needs is a matter of coaching. E.g. Farren Ray

[Mantis]

I agree. He is who he is, he has strengths and weaknesses, whether they fit what the team needs is a matter of coaching. E.g. Farren Ray

That's a cop out.

Josh needs to improve his fitness, his work ethic and his hardness at the contest. Hanging out the back for 'joe the goose's' doesn't cut it in top 4 teams.

Farren Ray fits into St.Kilda's system as he has a very defined role, but we all saw in last years GF & in GF 2 this year that when you need him to take the game on (which is our style) he still coughs it up.

[GVGjr]

That's a cop out.

Josh needs to improve his fitness, his work ethic and his hardness at the contest. Hanging out the back for 'joe the goose's' doesn't cut it in top 4 teams.



It's interesting that for a guy with so many flaws in his ethic the club actually still rate him very highly.

[Mantis]

It's interesting that for a guy with so many flaws in his ethic the club actually still rate him very highly.

Probably because he is our most naturally gifted player on the list; he has very clean hands, a great leap, is strong over-head and kicks it ok.

The glimpses we have seen of what Josh can do over the past 3 years has been enough to wet the taste-buds, but for some reason or another he probably hasn't pushed himself hard enough to be a consistent performer... Let's hope he works hard this pre-season such that he can play his part next year.

[mighty_west]

It's interesting that for a guy with so many flaws in his ethic the club actually still rate him very highly.

Do they really rate him that highly or was it all a last pitched effort to steal a pick in the teens at the 11th hour?

The Hawks clearly were desperate to grab Hill by offering the 2nd & 3rd round selections which seem very much in our favour, seemed from day one all this tug of war action trying to bluff each other out, originally reported that the Hawks only prepared to dish their 3rd rounder, we seemed to need the 2nd pick perhaps to snag Walker in some kind of deal.

Crunch time 10 minutes to go, Hawks offer the 2 picks, we see how desperate they really are for Josh's services by demanding pick 19!

[LostDoggy]

Do they really rate him that highly or was it all a last pitched effort to steal a pick in the teens at the 11th hour?

The Hawks clearly were desperate to grab Hill by offering the 2nd & 3rd round selections which seem very much in our favour, seemed from day one all this tug of war action trying to bluff each other out, originally reported that the Hawks only prepared to dish their 3rd rounder, we seemed to need the 2nd pick perhaps to snag Walker in some kind of deal.

Crunch time 10 minutes to go, Hawks offer the 2 picks, we see how desperate they really are for Josh's services by demanding pick 19!

We can't look at the Hill deal in isolation. There may have been a number of strategies in hand when considering offers and how to use the proceeds.

To make an offer with 10 minutes to spare is ridiculous when they had 7 days to consider their options.

All on-trading options were shot when we recieved that offer. Clearly, we do rate him higher than their offer. My understanding is we did not put him up for trade. Hawthorn asked the question.