Finalising the list?

[Jasper]

I believe that October 31st is the time the playing list has to be completed so I'm guessing that we have a couple of more names that will be added to the departure lounge in the next week.

I think that we can have Hargrave and Gilbee move to veterans list which will no doubt help us with and salary cap pressures.

The players in some doubt would have to include Tiller, Stack, Hahn, Boumann and Mulligan. Can we afford to keep more than 2 of them on?

Moles and Hooper have been elevated from the rookie list but do we know if Prato and Panos will be maintained? I have assumed that Rose and Daniels won't be on the rookie list next season.

I'd like to know hopw many draft picks we will use this year even though they are late ones.

[The Coon Dog]

All the applicable dates are:

Post 13.

http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=8489

[Dogs 24/7]

The players in some doubt would have to include Tiller, Stack, Hahn, Boumann and Mulligan. Can we afford to keep more than 2 of them on?



We can't keep more than two of them and there might even be an argument that all of them should go. We can always redraft a couple of them if we don't think we can get any better.

Remains to be seen if we would delist Hahn.

[dogman]

I've been told Tiller and Boumann are gone too. Stack has a year left on his contract, so he stays.

I'm a bit surprised about Boumann I would have liked him to get another year.

[Mantis]

I'm a bit surprised about Boumann I would have liked him to get another year.

Why?

I didn't see any real sign of improvement this year, did you?

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'm a bit surprised about Boumann I would have liked him to get another year.

Didn't see his finals series with Willi, then?

[Greystache]

I've been told Tiller and Boumann are gone too. Stack has a year left on his contract, so he stays.

I'm a bit surprised about Boumann I would have liked him to get another year.

So many supporters seem to rate him but no one can ever explain why. He's been on the list 3 years and hasn't shown any real sign he can make it as an AFL player, I don't see why it would be a surprise if he is delisted.

[GVGjr]

Didn't see his finals series with Willi, then?

I saw him frequently during the season and whilst he hasn't made any real progress from his encouraging 2nd season he does have the ability to go further than what he has shown so far.
In my opinion it shouldn't be an easy decision to just drop him and I think the decision will be largely made on what he does on the training track and if he does all the expected work rather than just his form on the field.

Mulligan hasn't done a lot either but I can understand why they might stick with him.

[LostDoggy]

If Mulligan stays he has to start coming into Eker calculations -- how does a bloke go from rookie list to senior list and STAY there without having to play a single AFL game?

[EasternWest]

So many supporters seem to rate him but no one can ever explain why. He's been on the list 3 years and hasn't shown any real sign he can make it as an AFL player, I don't see why it would be a surprise if he is delisted.

Because with his limited experience he stood up in finals and didn't look overawed by the moment.

I'd be disappointed if he were let go. Injuries have cruelled him this year. He may never be a walk up start, but he's the type of depth player that keeps the players above him honest.

[Greystache]

Because with his limited experience he stood up in finals and didn't look overawed by the moment.

I'd be disappointed if he were let go. Injuries have cruelled him this year. He may never be a walk up start, but he's the type of depth player that keeps the players above him honest.

Are you talking about Boumann? What injuries did he have this year?

He played 19 VFL games this year, and I don't remember him being in the best players in any of Williamstown's finals campaigns.

[GVGjr]

If Mulligan stays he has to start coming into Eker calculations -- how does a bloke go from rookie list to senior list and STAY there without having to play a single AFL game?

Hasn't played a lot of senior games either for Williamstown.

[Sedat]

Hasn't played a lot of senior games either for Williamstown.
So he's a VFL eker then - fair effort to remain on an AFL list for 4 consecutive years (if he survives this year) seeing as he can't even command a regular game at VFL level :D

[GVGjr]

We can't keep more than two of them and there might even be an argument that all of them should go. We can always redraft a couple of them if we don't think we can get any better.

Remains to be seen if we would delist Hahn.

If he is re-signed I'm sure we will hear the argument that he offers more than draft pick number 100.

[Greystache]

Hasn't played a lot of senior games either for Williamstown.

With Faulks now moving on you'd think surely this year he'll be thrown into the deep end against the best VFL forwards to see if he can cut it?

[LostDoggy]

If he is re-signed I'm sure we will hear the argument that he offers more than draft pick number 100.

I agree with you here Gary -- with this argument you may as well redraft Granty or Johnno, as I'm sure they'll offer more than draft pick 100 too.

Except that they don't. How many first-teamers do we have that came off the rookie list again?

[GVGjr]

I agree with you here Gary -- with this argument you may as well redraft Granty or Johnno, as I'm sure they'll offer more than draft pick 100 too.

Except that they don't. How many first-teamers do we have that came off the rookie list again?

I think there is a chance it will be the plausible reason provided. Originally I was supportive of Hahn staying on but now I just don't think there is a suitable spot for him.

[GVGjr]

With Faulks now moving on you'd think surely this year he'll be thrown into the deep end against the best VFL forwards to see if he can cut it?

Mulligan can't play reserves football next season unless he's coming back from an injury.

Markovic, Boumann and Mulligan have to be the key defenders or at least in the senior side.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Because with his limited experience he stood up in finals and didn't look overawed by the moment.

I'd be disappointed if he were let go. Injuries have cruelled him this year. He may never be a walk up start, but he's the type of depth player that keeps the players above him honest.

I think we have our wires crossed.

To whom are you referring?


We were talking about Boumann, who most definately was totally overawed in the finals.

[bornadog]

Why?

I didn't see any real sign of improvement this year, did you?


Didn't see his finals series with Willi, then?


So many supporters seem to rate him but no one can ever explain why. He's been on the list 3 years and hasn't shown any real sign he can make it as an AFL player, I don't see why it would be a surprise if he is delisted.

Has just turned 21, is mobile and athletic and 196cm. These tall guys don't mature till at least 24/25. Agree he hasn't shown a lot, but I believe he has room for improvement, and big guys have to be cut some slack.


I saw him frequently during the season and whilst he hasn't made any real progress from his encouraging 2nd season he does have the ability to go further than what he has shown so far.
In my opinion it shouldn't be an easy decision to just drop him and I think the decision will be largely made on what he does on the training track and if he does all the expected work rather than just his form on the field.

Mulligan hasn't done a lot either but I can understand why they might stick with him.

Who would you keep if it came to a choice, Mulligan or Boumann?

[Greystache]

Has just turned 21, is mobile and athletic and 196cm. These tall guys don't mature till at least 24/25. Agree he hasn't shown a lot, but I believe he has room for improvement, and big guys have to be cut some slack.

They do, so the player has to justify the club's investment by showing a strong work ethic, maturity, and commitment to getting the best out of themselves. Do you really think Boumann has done any of these?


Who would you keep if it came to a choice, Mulligan or Boumann?

Mulligan, he has at least shown a strong work ethic.

[Rocco Jones]

If Mulligan stays he has to start coming into Eker calculations -- how does a bloke go from rookie list to senior list and STAY there without having to play a single AFL game?


Hasn't played a lot of senior games either for Williamstown.


So he's a VFL eker then - fair effort to remain on an AFL list for 4 consecutive years (if he survives this year) seeing as he can't even command a regular game at VFL level :D

Haha, love it! Was thinking about Mulligan being an Eker today oddly enough.

He is looking good as a VFL Eker but absolutely great as an Eker one at the moment. It's normally very difficult to become an Eker before 25 but Mulligan is already one and will be a very strong one if he stays on next year.

[GVGjr]

Who would you keep if it came to a choice, Mulligan or Boumann?

Boumann has the ability but that's only part of the overall consideration.

Mulligan showed some good signs throughout the season but he has the work ethic.

Is there room for both?

[azabob]

Boumann has the ability but that's only part of the overall consideration.

Mulligan showed some good signs throughout the season but he has the work ethic.

Is there room for both?

Does it come down to who which two would you prefer playing KP in the back half out of

Boumann, Mulligan, Markovic, Hahn or Tiller?

[EasternWest]

Are you talking about Boumann? What injuries did he have this year?

He played 19 VFL games this year, and I don't remember him being in the best players in any of Williamstown's finals campaigns.


I think we have our wires crossed.

To whom are you referring?


We were talking about Boumann, who most definately was totally overawed in the finals.

Oh apologies. I thought we were talking about Tiller. I'm the first to admit I know nothing about Boumann.

[Greystache]

Oh apologies. I thought we were talking about Tiller. I'm the first to admit I know nothing about Boumann.

Ah that makes sense then. Yes Tiller did perform well under the intense spotlight, and I think the club were keen to give him a chance to build on that, unfortunately he's really struggled for continuity since then.

[FrediKanoute]

They do, so the player has to justify the club's investment by showing a strong work ethic, maturity, and commitment to getting the best out of themselves. Do you really think Boumann has done any of these?



Mulligan, he has at least shown a strong work ethic.

Can have all the commitment in the world, but if he can't get his hands on the footy, can't kick a ball and can't handball it then I'd take the laconic guy everytime. I have only seen them play NAB Cup and neither in my mind showed anything to indicate that they were AFL quality.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Boumann has the ability but that's only part of the overall consideration.

Mulligan showed some good signs throughout the season but he has the work ethic.

Is there room for both?

Interestingly, originally we intended to take Mulligan with the pick we used on Boumann and wanted to rookie Boumann. Clayton found out some personal stuff that Boumann had been dealing with in his U18 year. Clayton thought that once that was cleared up he could come on quicker so we changed our mind literally the night before the draft.

They could easily end up changing back this year.

[bornadog]

The Dogs have promoted rookies Andrew Hooper and Brodie Moles to the senior list for 2011.

Also cut along with Hahn were Jarrad Boumann, Shane Thorne, Stephen Tiller and rookies Jamason Daniels and Patrick Rose.

Brad Johnson, Jason Akermanis, Tim Callan and Nathan Eagleton have retired.

No mention of Stack?

[G-Mo77]

No mention of Stack?

Looks like he survived. Still has a year to run on his contract and maybe there was no suitors for him. I believe if we delist him we still have to pay him if no one picks him up.

[divvydan]

I notice Rose is still listed on the Rookie List section on the club's website (Daniels is not) and there's been nothing official from the club about him leaving yet at the same time Port Melbourne have come out and stated that they've signed Rose http://www.sportingpulse.com/club_info.cgi?client=1-118-10462-0-0&sID=56265&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=13830149&sectionID=56265

What's really happening with Rose?

[Mofra]

Looks like he survived. Still has a year to run on his contract and maybe there was no suitors for him. I believe if we delist him we still have to pay him if no one picks him up.
My take on it too - shame, as I think Stack will just be taking up a senior VFL spot we could have been using to try a speculative late draft pick. As much as I don't think he's up to it, the addition of Veszpremi & Djerkurra will see him even lower on the pecking order in 2011.

[Mantis]

My take on it too - shame, as I think Stack will just be taking up a senior VFL spot we could have been using to try a speculative late draft pick. As much as I don't think he's up to it, the addition of Veszpremi & Djerkurra will see him even lower on the pecking order in 2011.

Is it time to re-trial Stack as a HB/ BP option?

We seem to have a pleothera of mid-sized forwards who will all be in front of Stack at present, but seem to be a bit short on for running HB options. He has the pace, athleticism and the kicking skills to be an option from behind the ball and I think he would appreciate being lead to the ball.

It would be easy enough to go through the motions with Brennan next season, but perhaps a new role might be able to kick start his career.

[The Underdog]

Is it time to re-trial Stack as a HB/ BP option?

We seem to have a pleothera of mid-sized forwards who will all be in front of Stack at present, but seem to be a bit short on for running HB options. He has the pace, athleticism and the kicking skills to be an option from behind the ball and I think he would appreciate being lead to the ball.

It would be easy enough to go through the motions with Brennan next season, but perhaps a new role might be able to kick start his career.

It makes sense, there seems to be a few players on our list who are marking time as it were and if we're going to get anything out of Stack or even re-energise him then a change of role is probably the most sensible. Although given he's apparently homesick enough to want to leave, there may not be much point to any of it.

[Mofra]

Is it time to re-trial Stack as a HB/ BP option?

We seem to have a pleothera of mid-sized forwards who will all be in front of Stack at present, but seem to be a bit short on for running HB options. He has the pace, athleticism and the kicking skills to be an option from behind the ball and I think he would appreciate being lead to the ball.

It would be easy enough to go through the motions with Brennan next season, but perhaps a new role might be able to kick start his career.
It's definately a good idea to get him focussed on a new challenge. My worry is that he doesn't have the concentration required for a BP type role - a goal sneak only needs to get away from you 3 or 4 times a game to win the contest, but if given a clearly defined mission he may just surprise.

[Mantis]

It makes sense, there seems to be a few players on our list who are marking time as it were and if we're going to get anything out of Stack or even re-energise him then a change of role is probably the most sensible. Although given he's apparently homesick enough to want to leave, there may not be much point to any of it.

If that's the case why is that he is seemingly happy enough to play out his final year of his contract, if he was 'that' homesick why wouldn't he just leave now?

It seems to me that at present he isn't wanted by either of the WA clubs so perhaps if he finds a new role within the team, and does ok he may have some more currency come the end of the 2011 season if he still intends to head home.

[Sedat]

I'm certainly no major fan of Stack's but is he a complete and utter write-off as a player? He debuted for a couple of games in 2009 (one good, one shocking), and then played half a dozen games in a row in 2010 (some good, some shocking) before injuring his hammy pretty badly and not being able to force his way back into the team towards the end of the season. Says to me that his career is trending in the right direction (if a little too slowly). At his age it's not beyond the realms of possibility to expect some more improvement year on year. Maybe I'm just hoping he isn't there purely to clog the list in 2011 and he can actually provide some sort of value for the club.

[Desipura]

Is it time to re-trial Stack as a HB/ BP option?

We seem to have a pleothera of mid-sized forwards who will all be in front of Stack at present, but seem to be a bit short on for running HB options. He has the pace, athleticism and the kicking skills to be an option from behind the ball and I think he would appreciate being lead to the ball.

It would be easy enough to go through the motions with Brennan next season, but perhaps a new role might be able to kick start his career.

Now that he is being retained, we have no other option but to try him in another position, in the hope we can make him into a player.

[LostDoggy]

What's the mentoring like with Aboriginal players in recent seasons? (i'm talking AFL-wide).

There seems to have been a plethora of Aboriginal players go downhill recently:

Those that come to mind, amonst others, have been:

Harbrow (wanting to go home and give up on the chance of playing/winning a premiership)

Hill - inability to apply himself consistently

Stack - where is he at? Wants to go home also.

Taylor and the other rookie at Richmond who found AFL training/life "too hard".

Leon Davis - Mr September (coughs)

I've read/heard that Maurice Rioli was mentoring some players along with ex-Swan Micky O. I'm wondering has this mentoring got anywhere? These players have a chance to do something many only dream about.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What's the mentoring like with Aboriginal players in recent seasons? (i'm talking AFL-wide).

There seems to have been a plethora of Aboriginal players go downhill recently:

Those that come to mind, amonst others, have been:

Harbrow (wanting to go home and give up on the chance of playing/winning a premiership)

Hill - inability to apply himself consistently

Stack - where is he at? Wants to go home also.

Taylor and the other rookie at Richmond who found AFL training/life "too hard".

Leon Davis - Mr September (coughs)

I've read/heard that Maurice Rioli was mentoring some players along with ex-Swan Micky O. I'm wondering has this mentoring got anywhere? These players have a chance to do something many only dream about.

I think we over-estimate them in the first place (hello Richard Tambling). They're all supposed to be the next Andy McLeod or Nicky Winmar.

[LostDoggy]

May be the case SS, but i'm talking more about taking the chance that they've given.

Many many other players get onto lists and go nowhere due to lack of talent or being surplus to needs, eventually being delisted after a few seasons. Some of the players listed above seem to give up before it gets to that stage or just never take that next step they're asked too.

[Sedat]

Taylor and the other rookie at Richmond who found AFL training/life "too hard".
Relton Roberts. To be fair to the Tigers, I don't think you're being serious with your AFL career when you are eating hamburgers with the lot straight after training :D

[Murphy'sLore]

Mentoring for the indigenous players sounds like a good idea. Anyone in mind who could fulfil this role at our club?

[The Underdog]

If that's the case why is that he is seemingly happy enough to play out his final year of his contract, if he was 'that' homesick why wouldn't he just leave now?

It seems to me that at present he isn't wanted by either of the WA clubs so perhaps if he finds a new role within the team, and does ok he may have some more currency come the end of the 2011 season if he still intends to head home.

Because playing out a contract away from home for $120,000 (total guess) is better than moving home and playing WAFL for not much and probably having to work a real job. Hopefully he will be spurred on by the lack of interest and motivated to make an AFL player of himself but my point in a roundabout way was that in the end the best we probably get out of this is another option off the HBF for a year and a late round draft pick next year. Worst case is he sits in a forward pocket for Willy and does bugger all while he collects his money before moving home and playing WAFL in 2011.

[Desipura]

Relton Roberts. To be fair to the Tigers, I don't think you're being serious with your AFL career when you are eating hamburgers with the lot straight after training :D
It was during the half time break of a reserves game!

[Sockeye Salmon]

May be the case SS, but i'm talking more about taking the chance that they've given.

Many many other players get onto lists and go nowhere due to lack of talent or being surplus to needs, eventually being delisted after a few seasons. Some of the players listed above seem to give up before it gets to that stage or just never take that next step they're asked too.

That is my point. Some go nowhere due to their lack of talent - they were over-rated when they were drafted in the first place. Exhibit A - Brennan Stack.

[LostDoggy]

What's the mentoring like with Aboriginal players in recent seasons? (i'm talking AFL-wide).

There seems to have been a plethora of Aboriginal players go downhill recently:

Those that come to mind, amonst others, have been:

Harbrow (wanting to go home and give up on the chance of playing/winning a premiership)

Hill - inability to apply himself consistently

Stack - where is he at? Wants to go home also.

Taylor and the other rookie at Richmond who found AFL training/life "too hard".

Leon Davis - Mr September (coughs)

I've read/heard that Maurice Rioli was mentoring some players along with ex-Swan Micky O. I'm wondering has this mentoring got anywhere? These players have a chance to do something many only dream about.

Adding Carl Peterson to the list.

[EasternWest]

Adding Carl Peterson to the list.

Rhan Hooper, Jarrod Atkinson.

[Bulldog4life]

Rhan Hooper, Jarrod Atkinson.

Not forgetting our own Mal Lynch.

[The Coon Dog]

Here is our list as at today.

WESTERN BULLDOGS
1. Addison, Dylan
2. Boyd, Matthew
3. Cooney, Adam
4. Cordy, Ayce
5. Cross, Daniel
6. Djerrkura, Nathan
7. Giansiracusa, Daniel
8. Gilbee, Lindsay (veteran - outside list)
9. Grant, Jarrad
10. Griffen, Ryan
11. Hall, Barry
12. Hargrave, Ryan (veteran - outside list)
13. Higgins, Shaun
14. Hill, Josh
15. Hooper, Andrew
16. Howard, Christian
17. Hudson, Ben
18. Jones, Liam
19. Lake, Brian
20. Liberatore, Tom
21. Markovic, Lukas
22. Minson, Will
23. Moles, Brodie
24. Morris, Dale
25. Mulligan, James
26. Murphy, Robert
27. Picken, Liam
28. Reid, Sam
29. Roughead, Jordan
30. Sherman, Justin
31. Stack, Brennan
32. Tutt, Jason
33. Veszpremi, Patrick
34. Wallis, Mitch
35. Ward, Callan
36. Williams, Tom
37. Wood, Easton
38.
39.
40.
Rookie list
1. Panos, Matthew
2. Prato, Eddie
3.
4.
5.
6.

[AndrewP6]

What's the mentoring like with Aboriginal players in recent seasons? (i'm talking AFL-wide).

There seems to have been a plethora of Aboriginal players go downhill recently:

Those that come to mind, amonst others, have been:

Harbrow (wanting to go home and give up on the chance of playing/winning a premiership)

Hill - inability to apply himself consistently

Stack - where is he at? Wants to go home also.

Taylor and the other rookie at Richmond who found AFL training/life "too hard".

Leon Davis - Mr September (coughs)

I've read/heard that Maurice Rioli was mentoring some players along with ex-Swan Micky O. I'm wondering has this mentoring got anywhere? These players have a chance to do something many only dream about.

Not sure I'd put Harbrow in as "going downhill" - he just took the money and ran. Yes, I know, he went home, had family up there blah blah blah blah... :)

[Drunken Bum]

Here is our list as at today.

WESTERN BULLDOGS

8. Gilbee, Lindsay (veteran - outside list)
12. Hargrave, Ryan (veteran - outside list)

Are they definitely on the veterans list CD?
I would imagine Lakes contract would have been at least a little bit backended and figured it might have been wiser just to have the one veteran next year before Lake goes on it the year after. Unless the club is expecting one or both to not be around the following year.
Or was our salary cap that tight for next year that we didn't have an option

[soupman]

Are they definitely on the veterans list CD?
I would imagine Lakes contract would have been at least a little bit backended and figured it might have been wiser just to have the one veteran next year before Lake goes on it the year after. Unless the club is expecting one or both to not be around the following year.
Or was our salary cap that tight for next year that we didn't have an option

I believe I read on here that the AFL has changed the rules so that you can "unveteran" players, which you would assume we would do once Lake becomes eligible.

[chef]

I believe I read on here that the AFL has changed the rules so that you can "unveteran" players, which you would assume we would do once Lake becomes eligible.

You can also have have a third Vet, but only 33% of their salary is exempt instead of the usual 50%.

[The Coon Dog]

Are they definitely on the veterans list CD?

Yes they are.

Brian Lake was born in Feb 1982, so doesn't turn 30 until 2012. He cannot then be elevated until 2012.

2011 Veterans List (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=8344)

[Sockeye Salmon]

Yes they are.

Brian Lake was born in Feb 1982, so doesn't turn 30 until 2012. He cannot then be elevated until 2012.

2011 Veterans List (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=8344)

Drunken Bum's question as a good one, though.

Can you 'un-veteran" someone?

Lake would certainly be on more money than Hargrave, so it would make sense to have Lake on the list instead.

[Twodogs]

With all due respect to Shaggy I was suprised he was one of our veterans. I hope you can deveteran a player or we might find ourselves in the situation of forcing a player to retire.

[GVGjr]

Drunken Bum's question as a good one, though.

Can you 'un-veteran" someone?

Lake would certainly be on more money than Hargrave, so it would make sense to have Lake on the list instead.

Unless the rules have changed my understanding was that it couldn't be done. Any player moved to the veterans list stayed there for the balance of his career at that club.

[The Coon Dog]

Drunken Bum's question as a good one, though.

Can you 'un-veteran" someone?

Lake would certainly be on more money than Hargrave, so it would make sense to have Lake on the list instead.

As a side note, Gia & Murph are also eligible in 2012.

Clearly the decision to elevate Gilbee & Shaggy has been done immediately due to salary cap constraints.

A bit of juggling to do in future methinks.

On second thoughts maybe not, looking at this thread Desipura posted:

Veterans List Rules (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=5880)

(c) A Player who is transferred to the AFL Club’s Veterans List can only be
transferred back to the Primary List of the AFL Club between the end of an
AFL Season and two weeks after the Pre-Season Draft prior to the next AFL
Season and provided that Player remains classified as a veteran on the
Primary List.

[Sockeye Salmon]

As a side note, Gia & Murph are also eligible in 2012.

Clearly the decision to elevate Gilbee & Shaggy has been done immediately due to salary cap constraints.

A bit of juggling to do in future methinks.

On second thoughts maybe not, looking at this thread Desipura posted:

Veterans List Rules (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=5880)

(c) A Player who is transferred to the AFL Club’s Veterans List can only be
transferred back to the Primary List of the AFL Club between the end of an
AFL Season and two weeks after the Pre-Season Draft prior to the next AFL
Season and provided that Player remains classified as a veteran on the
Primary List.

That doesn't make sense.

You can only be transferred off the verteran's list if you stay a veteran? What does that mean (one less rookie, perhaps?)?

[Bulldog Joe]

I think I read somewhere that however many veterans you have the salary of all is divided by the number when there is more than 2.

That would mean that if we have 5 veterans in 2012 that 20% of each of the salaries would be exempt or 1/3 if there are 3.

The upshot to that is that the maximum relief for Lake will be 1/3 if Gilbee and Hargrave are still on the list in 2012.

[Mofra]

I think I read somewhere that however many veterans you have the salary of all is divided by the number when there is more than 2.

That would mean that if we have 5 veterans in 2012 that 20% of each of the salaries would be exempt or 1/3 if there are 3.

The upshot to that is that the maximum relief for Lake will be 1/3 if Gilbee and Hargrave are still on the list in 2012.
Sounds correct, hopefully if the rules are changed we can take one off to have 50% of Lake's salary counted in 2012, as I assume he'd be the highest paid out of our vets.

[always right]

It was during the half time break of a reserves game!

Should never have left the Scooby Doo show.