Ayce Cordy?

[GVGjr]

I read Sedat's comments about Cordy being a potential bolter for the 2011 season and thought it was time to put Ayce under the microscope.

He has been slowed by injury since his arrival but has been adding some muscle to his body and you would have to hope he can take a step forward in 2011.
He has surprisingly good agility for someone so tall. I've seen him scoop the ball off the ground on the run and also athletically leap for his marks.

My big question mark about him is what is his ideal playing position?
To me he will have to be able to float between forward and ruck duties especially with the new IC rules and how teams are more likely to go into games with just one ruckman with support by a part timer. Does this suit Cordy or not?

Can Cordy become someone who can hold his marks up forward, kick straight and then take his turn in the ruck?
The risk is that without him holding his marks and the ball on the ground he could become a liability up forward.

I think 2011 will mainly be another development one for Cordy and hopefully he might slip in for a game or two with the Bulldogs.
20 injury free and consistent games with Williamstown would be ideal base to build his career from and that would be my main aim for him.

How do you think Cordy will go in 2011?

[Sockeye Salmon]

I spoke to Ayce a year ago and he want to be a ruckman first and foremost.

In his ideal world he would be playing like Dean Cox, a ruckman who gets good stats because he can outrun most of the others.

[Desipura]

If Ayce can get close to 100kgs, I can see him getting a few senior games (form permitting).
He will have to be mindful that if he does increase his weight significantly that it does not affect his mobility. I have no doubt the club will be monitoring this.

I would like to think he could play as a 3rd tall with the ability to chase and tackle when the ball is on the ground as well as pinch hit in the ruck.
He does have some smarts about him so he could be a very good player if the stars allign.

[GVGjr]

I spoke to Ayce a year ago and he want to be a ruckman first and foremost.

In his ideal world he would be playing like Dean Cox, a ruckman who gets good stats because he can outrun most of the others.

Do you think with the rule changes to the IC bench he might have to add to his skill set?
I think both he and Roughead need to be flexible enough to spend some time up forward without being a liability.

[Mantis]

Has played about 5 games in 2 & 1/2 years. I would like him to at least string a season together before we can try and work out where he is best suited... because at the moment I would say he is most suited to the rehab room.

Agree that he has some 'scary' traits for a guy 6'8"... lets hope we get to see some of these next year.

[LostDoggy]

Do you think with the rule changes to the IC bench he might have to add to his skill set?
I think both he and Roughead need to be flexible enough to spend some time up forward without being a liability.

Either one or both of these guy's need to step up to the plate and become goalkicking forwards/ruckman ala Paul Salmon, I think the talent is there for this to occur, time and confidence will tell, but it is hard to judge Cordy on his Willy games due to the run of injuries, however, Roughead has shown plenty of promise. Bring it on!

[LostDoggy]

I just want him to play close to a full season at Willy. Not fussed if he doesn't make it to the Bulldogs side.

[GVGjr]

I just want him to play close to a full season at Willy. Not fussed if he doesn't make it to the Bulldogs side.

I think that is very realistic. I assume you also mean playing as a forward and changing in the ruck?

[bornadog]

I think that is very realistic. I assume you also mean playing as a forward and changing in the ruck?

This is what he needs to learn to do.

In February 2012, Hudson will be 33 and Hall 35 and will need to be replaced. 2011 is a great opportunity for Minson, Roughead and Ayce to get ready for 2012.

[Sedat]

I just want him to play close to a full season at Willy. Not fussed if he doesn't make it to the Bulldogs side.
Reckon that is selling him a little short. The big proviso is 'if', but if he has a cracking pre-season (like Grant did last year), then surely he will come into calculations for higher honours with his skill set, increased size/bulk, and the confidence in his body that a strong pre-season will bring. At the very least he should be asserting himself consistently at senior VFL level and keeping the pressure on the incumbents.

[LostDoggy]

The reason I'm not fussed if he doesn't get into the Bulldogs, is that IMO it would be better for Ayce to have a full year in the 1 side with 1 defined role. The last thing he needs is to play a few games at Willy doing 1 thing, then spending a couple of games at the Dogs doing a different role.

[Sedat]

The reason I'm not fussed if he doesn't get into the Bulldogs, is that IMO it would be better for Ayce to have a full year in the 1 side with 1 defined role. The last thing he needs is to play a few games at Willy doing 1 thing, then spending a couple of games at the Dogs doing a different role.
If he's not getting a game with the seniors but is knocking the door down with his performances at Willy, that's cool. But I don't want the expectations on him to be lowered purely because he has been injured in previous years. We cotton-wooled him very early in 2010 so that he would be ready to go for pre-season, so there's no reason to suggest he can't throw himself into his work over summer and get himself cherry ripe for the season proper.

[Cyberdoggie]

Has played about 5 games in 2 & 1/2 years. I would like him to at least string a season together before we can try and work out where he is best suited... because at the moment I would say he is most suited to the rehab room.

Agree that he has some 'scary' traits for a guy 6'8"... lets hope we get to see some of these next year.

And it think before being a bulldog he was injured for a lot of the TAC cup year.

I think he'll eventually get the right weight, i believe he's managed to put more kilo's on but the last time I saw him (in a suit at a bulldog's final) he still looked lean. He doesn't quite have the natural frame that Roughead has, he's a bit more like Luke Darcy than Scott Wynd and that will slow his progress but as long as he can compete physically in the ruck, then i don't seem him having a problem with any rule changes or demands to play forward, as we know he can do that already.

[LostDoggy]

The reason I'm not fussed if he doesn't get into the Bulldogs, is that IMO it would be better for Ayce to have a full year in the 1 side with 1 defined role. The last thing he needs is to play a few games at Willy doing 1 thing, then spending a couple of games at the Dogs doing a different role.
Assumes he can only learn one thing at a time and only over a long period. He should be constantly challenged to do different things to see how flexible and adaptive he can become (and I would expect if he is to be really good, he would want this).

[LostDoggy]

Seen Ayce at WO on Thursday, the mop of hair is gone and so was the sling. Bright eyed and bushy tailed you might say. Very upbeat and positive. Seen Markovic as well on his way to a rehab session. He too was looking forward to preseason.

[SonofScray]

Not sure how he will go. From all reports he is a lock to develop into a very good player. Potential star. The injuries and hampered first few seasons are a worry IMO, you'd like to see a kid this highly rated in the mix for senior selection much earlier in the piece.

There have been plenty of things go wrong but I wouldn't count his age as an issue. If you're good enough, you're old enough.

[LostDoggy]

The new sub rule (as previously suggested by GVG) may well suit an up-and-coming tyro who can't run out a game but can come on as an impact sub later in games, but still have the versatility to sub in for an injury if required, and also do their development a world of good.

I can see Roughead and Cordy both having games as the nominated sub next year, even if Ayce is not ready for a first 21 role.

[LostDoggy]

[QUOTE=DaDruid;188208]Seen Ayce at WO on Thursday, the mop of hair is gone and so was the sling. Bright eyed and bushy tailed you might say. Very upbeat and positive. QUOTE]

Glad to hear this, as a few weeks ago when I was at the Pound, I saw Ayce having lunch. he still had the shoulder in a sling, but managed to put away a good deal of food - LOL! I hope that he can have a cracking pre-season, and perhaps manage a couple of games for us - I haven't seen him play really, just once at Willie and only for a short time as he got injured! I imagine (hope) him to develop into a ruckman, who can wreak havoc on the forward line! :D

[Go_Dogs]

My expectations on what he should achieve are pretty low as he hasn't played much footy at all over the past few years. If he can get some continuity and show some steady improvement in the VFL that would be a great result - for his development he just needs to stay on the park.

Could easily improve rapidly if he gets the continuity.

[Rocco Jones]

The new sub rule (as previously suggested by GVG) may well suit an up-and-coming tyro who can't run out a game but can come on as an impact sub later in games, but still have the versatility to sub in for an injury if required, and also do their development a world of good.

I can see Roughead and Cordy both having games as the nominated sub next year, even if Ayce is not ready for a first 21 role.

I can see where you're coming from but I would prefer us to start with Cordy and Roughead if they warrant a spot in the 22 and then sub one of them off when/if they are struggling and go with a smaller line up to run out the game. They might end up playing the same TOG but it gives us the option to increase it if they are helping us structurally.

I think the sub role will mostly go to the last player who offers run picked. If I had to nominate a Dogs player for it now it would be Veszpremi. He is an explosive type, has fitness issues and will start off as a marginal player.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Needs to get some fitness continuity, but the new rules actually help Cordy

In the limited stuff I've seen from him he has an exciting set of skills for big man. Good hands, good below his knees, good feel for positioning etc, pretty good kick.

The thing thats been hard to project is how good a ruckman he is, and until he gets bigger and fitter its hard to know.

I'd want to see him really show some solid form for Willy in 2011. It would be great if he pushed for dogs action but its not the be all and end all for me, just getting his body right and playing 15-20 games and developing would satisfy me.

[Hotdog60]

I can see where you're coming from but I would prefer us to start with Cordy and Roughead if they warrant a spot in the 22 and then sub one of them off when/if they are struggling and go with a smaller line up to run out the game. They might end up playing the same TOG but it gives us the option to increase it if they are helping us structurally.

I think the sub role will mostly go to the last player who offers run picked. If I had to nominate a Dogs player for it now it would be Veszpremi. He is an explosive type, has fitness issues and will start off as a marginal player.

I think the sub player will be Mitch Hahn as by reports he got a 1 year deal, if someone gets injured he would go either down back or play forward.

On Cordy, if he can keep his body right he could grab a game or two next year and I hope he can put all the injuries behind him.

[LostDoggy]

I can see where you're coming from but I would prefer us to start with Cordy and Roughead if they warrant a spot in the 22 and then sub one of them off when/if they are struggling and go with a smaller line up to run out the game. They might end up playing the same TOG but it gives us the option to increase it if they are helping us structurally.

I think the sub role will mostly go to the last player who offers run picked. If I had to nominate a Dogs player for it now it would be Veszpremi. He is an explosive type, has fitness issues and will start off as a marginal player.

Sorry you're right this was the flipside to my point -- was rushing when writing, thought about it but didn't write it -- as you never know when injury may strike, it may be better to have Ayce/Roughead starting on the ground/interchange with a nominated sub ready to take over if no injuries hit, but if one DOES hit eary Ayce/Roughead will just have to run the game out. More flexible if they get picked in the starting line-up.

Which ironically probably limits their opportunities as Ayce would be a liability to expect to run a game out (should injury hit someone else and the sub is required for that situation).

[GVGjr]

Seen Ayce at WO on Thursday, the mop of hair is gone and so was the sling. Bright eyed and bushy tailed you might say. Very upbeat and positive. Seen Markovic as well on his way to a rehab session. He too was looking forward to preseason.


If his shoulder issue is behind him he might be able to start adding some strength to his upper body. He really needs to have a good and injury free pre-season.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Has played about 5 games in 2 & 1/2 years. I would like him to at least string a season together before we can try and work out where he is best suited... because at the moment I would say he is most suited to the rehab room.

Agree that he has some 'scary' traits for a guy 6'8"... lets hope we get to see some of these next year.

5 games in 2 & 1/2 years is tragic. Andrej Everritt and his athletic tallness, being too slow for a fast player and not a great mark for a tall player begs the question: "What value tall athleticism?"
Would we be happy if Ayce turns out to be a David Hale?

[Sockeye Salmon]

5 games in 2 & 1/2 years is tragic. Andrej Everritt and his athletic tallness, being too slow for a fast player and not a great mark for a tall player begs the question: "What value tall athleticism?"
Would we be happy if Ayce turns out to be a David Hale?

Would we be happy if he turns out to be a Dean Cox?

[Desipura]

Would we be happy if he turns out to be a Dean Cox?
He will never get the physique of a Cox so it is difficult to compare.

[Sockeye Salmon]

He will never get the physique of a Cox so it is difficult to compare.

Why not?

Cox is hardly built like Schwarzenegger.

[Desipura]

Why not?

Cox is hardly built like Schwarzenegger.

And Cordy is hardly built like Cox. He may not be built like Arnie but he is 105 kgs, not too many players that heavy.

[GVGjr]

Why not?

Cox is hardly built like Schwarzenegger.

Cordy is not big enough across the shoulders to ever be regarded as a genuinely big player. I don't mind the Hale comparison. Handy as a forward and in the ruck is a good aim for Cordy.

[Mofra]

The Burger at Brissy was fairly skinny, agile and moved well as a youngster too.
He's just starting to blossom so there is no reason why Ayce can't put on enough muscle to become a ruckman who can compete with the best of them.

I'd be very happy if he managed to hold down one of the ruck spots at Willy 1sts this year and had a decent run without injury.

[boydogs]

And Cordy is hardly built like Cox. He may not be built like Arnie but he is 105 kgs, not too many players that heavy.

Hall & Lake are 104, Minson & Hudson 106.
For all the talk about Cordy bulking up, he is only 2kg behind Roughead (92 to 90)

[Mofra]

Newspaper talking about our pre-season says Cordy has started training for the pre-season early with an eye to debut this year. Can't ask much more of the kid at this stage.

[GVGjr]

Newspaper talking about our pre-season says Cordy has started training for the pre-season early with an eye to debut this year. Can't ask much more of the kid at this stage.

Very encouraging news.

[Desipura]

Very encouraging news.

I challenge all on this forum to find out what he weighs in at the moment?

[LostDoggy]

Surely someone has his dad's number. TCD?

[GVGjr]

I challenge all on this forum to find out what he weighs in at the moment?

I know its just a challenge but it doesn't have much to do with the news that he started his pre-season training.

It doesn't hurt to have a bit of mystery ;)

[ratsmac]

I challenge all on this forum to find out what he weighs in at the moment?

Is this like guessing the amount of jelly beans in a jar? Gee I don't know, maybe 89kgs before a visit to the toilet!!

[LostDoggy]

I'll take 96kg if there's a sweep starting. :D

After seeing Ayce the other day and his proven propensity for mastication. This should be about right. IMO

I also think Dale Morris would not be far off 100kg. There's close to 10kg in bicep alone!

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I'll take 96kg if there's a sweep starting. :D

After seeing Ayce the other day and his proven propensity for mastication. This should be about right. IMO

I also think Dale Morris would not be far off 100kg. There's close to 10kg in bicep alone!

Message for Ayce: "Masticate at least 110 times a day, despite what the Presbytarians and the New Right in America say".

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Ayce is an important player for the future.

If he can mould into a good player, we'll be a much better side for it. A guy that can have an effect in the ruck, around the ground and up forward will be invaluable in today's game. He needs to concentrate on just playing some footy - but in 2012/2013 when Hall and Hudson specifically have retired - Cordy will be pivotal.

[Mofra]

If he can mould into a good player, we'll be a much better side for it. A guy that can have an effect in the ruck, around the ground and up forward will be invaluable in today's game. He needs to concentrate on just playing some footy - but in 2012/2013 when Hall and Hudson specifically have retired - Cordy will be pivotal.
He appears to be a very different player to Roughead which makes him important - seeing him rove off a pack and snap a goal at 204cm at Willy shows just how different he is to standard ruckmen. We could conceivably have a ruck/forward dup who split their duties 50/50 which would be a point of difference against most ruck duos who have a defined no 1 and a no 2 in support.

[LostDoggy]

I challenge all on this forum to find out what he weighs in at the moment?

As at the coomencement of training on Monday 15th November 2010, Ayce Cordy weighs 97.7 kgs. Source, Ayce Cordy himself. :cool::)

[LostDoggy]

]I'll take 96kg[/B] if there's a sweep starting. :D

After seeing Ayce the other day and his proven propensity for mastication. This should be about right. IMO

I also think Dale Morris would not be far off 100kg. There's close to 10kg in bicep alone!

Would be close to winning the sweep if it was run! ;)

[Mofra]

As at the coomencement of training on Monday 15th November 2010, Ayce Cordy weighs 97.7 kgs. Source, Ayce Cordy himself. :cool::)
Shaysus that's a pretty solid weight gain, hopefully he wills till have the agility & durability he needs. Will be an interesting kid to watch this year.

[Desipura]

As at the coomencement of training on Monday 15th November 2010, Ayce Cordy weighs 97.7 kgs. Source, Ayce Cordy himself. :cool::)
That is a great result this early into pre-season. Come the season proper, he will lose some of that, its still a big increase and should hold him in good stead for next season (providing he does not lose any of his mobility), no doubt the club will be monitoring this.

[Mantis]

That is a great result this early into pre-season. Come the season proper, he will lose some of that, its still a big increase and should hold him in good stead for next season (providing he does not lose any of his mobility), no doubt the club will be monitoring this.

Is 5kg in a year really that big?

(It was reported that he was at 92kg come the end of 2009)

[Desipura]

Is 5kg in a year really that big?

(It was reported that he was at 92kg come the end of 2009)
I guess I mean from when he first started. Having said that increasing your weight from 92kg to almost 98kg is a siginificant increase as it should enable him to physically compete in the ruck from time to time.
Increasing from 80kgs to 90kgs is significant however he still was not able to physically match it against his opponents, he should be able to now.

[LostDoggy]

Is 5kg in a year really that big?

(It was reported that he was at 92kg come the end of 2009)

When he arrived at the club he was 77kg so 20 kg gain in 2 years is very impressive.

[LostDoggy]

Is 5kg in a year really that big?

(It was reported that he was at 92kg come the end of 2009)

5kg of fat is easy -- I can pile that on in a week with South-East Asian laksas or Harlem soul food.

5kg of solid muscle, though, is pretty impressive, as you would be trying to lean up your skin folds (ie. lose fat) while piling on the mass.

You wouldn't want to be bulking up too quick either, though, as your tendons and ligaments don't strengthen at the same rate as your muscles. Ayce would be at risk of soft tissue problems over the next two years if his increased bulk puts too much stress on his joints, especially if we're planning to play him in the physical bullpit that is the ruck regularly.

[The Pie Man]

^^^^

Listening to Danny Green on SEN at lunch, he was saying - and insisted it was true - that following weigh ins, certain boxers can put on anywhere b/w 5-10 kgs in 24 hours!

[Mofra]

5kg of solid muscle, though, is pretty impressive, as you would be trying to lean up your skin folds (ie. lose fat) while piling on the mass.

You wouldn't want to be bulking up too quick either, though, as your tendons and ligaments don't strengthen at the same rate as your muscles. Ayce would be at risk of soft tissue problems over the next two years if his increased bulk puts too much stress on his joints, especially if we're planning to play him in the physical bullpit that is the ruck regularly.
His rate of weight gain isn't extrordinary though given his age & height - I added 13kgs of lean body mass in 12 months to end of October, and I'm shorter and older than Ayce. He has metabolic advantages at ages 18/19.

[Mofra]

^^^^

Listening to Danny Green on SEN at lunch, he was saying - and insisted it was true - that following weigh ins, certain boxers can put on anywhere b/w 5-10 kgs in 24 hours!
They are pretty dehydrated going into weigh ins though aren't they?
Pre-comp pro bodybuilders take appetite suppresants to get that vascular; one girl I know dated a guy who put on 11kgs (claimed) in two days after a comp.

[LostDoggy]

They are pretty dehydrated going into weigh ins though aren't they?
Pre-comp pro bodybuilders take appetite suppresants to get that vascular; one girl I know dated a guy who put on 11kgs (claimed) in two days after a comp.

Yeah, it's all (well, mostly) water -- 5 kgs isn't unusual, although 11kgs is pretty extreme.

[LostDoggy]

I'll let it be known that from my regular sightings of Ayce, there has been a gradual increase in size both height and weight. He has put some time in on core strength training as is visible when you see him with his shirt up/off (anyone need any washing done?). His upper body has only really started to get any mass of note since he lost his sling a few weeks ago.

[Dazza]

He's noticeably bigger than when he first started for sure. Would be about Rougheads size at the moment.

Rougheads noticeably gotten thinner though.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

He's noticeably bigger than when he first started for sure. Would be about Rougheads size at the moment.

Rougheads noticeably gotten thinner though.

Amazing that the two are now similar. Ayce by name, potentially ace by nature.

[GVGjr]

I challenge all on this forum to find out what he weighs in at the moment?

Last night at the Barwon Bulldogs he said he had hit the 100kg mark.

[LostDoggy]

He's noticeably bigger than when he first started for sure. Would be about Rougheads size at the moment.

Rougheads noticeably gotten thinner though.

He has, hasn't he? Now I have to ask him now how much he's weighing.

Gee, the things I do for this forum. Always taking time off work to go down to training, having to sit there sipping on latte and nibbling on muffins or forced to eat a full cooked brekkiy whilst watching the team train until I can finally get a chance for a quick chat about whatever is the biggest unanswered questions on WOOF all the time. I do hope you are all grateful. Mutter.. mumble.. bloody government... expletive!. :rolleyes::cool:;):D

[ledge]

[/I][/B]
He has, hasn't he? Now I have to ask him now how much he's weighing.

Gee, the things I do for this forum. Always taking time off work to go down to training, having to sit there sipping on latte and nibbling on muffins or forced to eat a full cooked brekkiy whilst watching the team train until I can finally get a chance for a quick chat about whatever is the biggest unanswered questions on WOOF all the time. I do hope you are all grateful. Mutter.. mumble.. bloody government... expletive!. :rolleyes::cool:;):D

Just do as your told and like it!:D

[Desipura]

Just do as your told and like it!:D Or what, you'll knock his teeth out? No no no, not the new fangs!

[LostDoggy]

Or what, you'll knock his teeth out? No no no, not the new fangs!

I can hardly have another bite at the cherry when it comes to Sam Newman! ;):D

[LostDoggy]

[/I][/B]
He has, hasn't he? Now I have to ask him now how much he's weighing.

Gee, the things I do for this forum. Always taking time off work to go down to training, having to sit there sipping on latte and nibbling on muffins or forced to eat a full cooked brekkiy whilst watching the team train until I can finally get a chance for a quick chat about whatever is the biggest unanswered questions on WOOF all the time. I do hope you are all grateful. Mutter.. mumble.. bloody government... expletive!. :rolleyes::cool:;):D

Ah you poor thing, well suck it up princess :D (PS - I am in the unfortunate position (Ha!) of not working on a Wednesday or Thursday and so can also sneak down for a long black and a look at the boys! Happy to share the load with you DaDruid!

[w3design]

Can any of our devout training viewers give an idea of where Ayce is at now?

Cheers.

[LostDoggy]

How did he play today?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How did he play today?

Honestly? A long way off it, but at least he got a taste.

[Mofra]

How did he play today?
Out of position?
He doesn't strike me as a long term option as a key back, jury still out.

[bornadog]

Honestly? A long way off it, but at least he got a taste.

Agree.

Just gotta get game time in him and we have to be patient if we think he has got it in him.

[Rance Fan]

Needs to learn to punch from behind, if playing back.

[LostDoggy]

I thought he did alright. I wasn't expecting anything from him, just happy he's out there and not on the injury list afterwards.

[LostDoggy]

Thought he was pretty good below his knees

[LostDoggy]

I thought he did alright. I wasn't expecting anything from him, just happy he's out there and not on the injury list afterwards.

Just didn't look confident but I think I'd have the wobbles too if I'd waited 3 years for a taste. IMO he got what he needed out of the game which was a bit of learning against crappy opposition. Wasn't his greatest game but lets give him another one, then get a full preseason out of him so we can see what we've actually got next year. Go Ayce - we need you to make it!

[Remi Moses]

Funny seeing Da Druid on here.Heard him on Bartlett's show caning the club on the Rocket sacking!Sounded very very angry:(Silly old fart KB picked Port!!:p

[Ozza]

Ayce probably lacked a bit of strength in the contest to play key back - but I was impressed that he wasn't rushed when he had the footy. Wasn't too bad a debut - little bit hard to gauge given that Port didn't have many inside 50s in the first half when Cordy was stationed down there.

[Doc26]

Whereas Tutt impressed in his debut, Ayce struggled in what was little more than a VFL standard game. Yes it was his first AFL game but I'm seeing little to suggest he will cut it at the required level. I hope to be proven wrong and that a big pre season might step him up a gear in his development.

[bornadog]

Whereas Tutt impressed in his debut, Ayce struggled in what was little more than a VFL standard game. Yes it was his first AFL game but I'm seeing little to suggest he will cut it at the required level. I hope to be proven wrong and that a big pre season might step him up a gear in his development.

I agree, I thought Cordy struggled in his first game. Time will tell.

[Ghost Dog]

K templeton-like-body. Will need lots of game time, but no more than Warnock or other brontosaurus types do.

diamond in the rough. Get behind him.

[Maddog37]

I thought he was pretty average but he at least did not look terrible. Some players you look at and think yuck straight away. You would think he is still a year or two away from being a solid AFL player.

[LostDoggy]

What's with the inability of our young talls to kick straight from (even relatively easy) set-shots at goal?

They can all clunk a mark, but all of Jones, Roughead, Grant and Cordy are terrible kicks for goal (in stark contrast to Bazza) -- if they had put away their chances yesterday we would be talking about a 120 point win. It's not like I'm talking about some exotic skill -- set goalkicking is a (if not the) fundamental requirement of a forward. My worry is that if they can't handle the pressure of kicking straight in a game that was over by quarter-time and while leading by 90 points they'll never be able to.

[chef]

What's with the inability of our young talls to kick straight from (even relatively easy) set-shots at goal?

They can all clunk a mark, but all of Jones, Roughead, Grant and Cordy are terrible kicks for goal (in stark contrast to Bazza) -- if they had put away their chances yesterday we would be talking about a 120 point win. It's not like I'm talking about some exotic skill -- set goalkicking is a (if not the) fundamental requirement of a forward. My worry is that if they can't handle the pressure of kicking straight in a game that was over by quarter-time and while leading by 90 points they'll never be able to.

Grant's pretty reliable to me and Cordy's had one shot, bit early to be calling him terrible.

[LostDoggy]

Grant's pretty reliable to me and Cordy's had one shot, bit early to be calling him terrible.

His shot was from 20/25 metres out on a slight angle, it sailed across the goals and didn't even go through for a behind. If that's not terrible I don't know what is. True it's a pretty early call, but I just noticed it as part of a pattern with our other talls. Grant has never been a reliable kick for goal even under no pressure. Under pressure he's a monty to miss.

What seems weird to me is their entire process prior to kicking for goal (same for Jones and Roughy) -- it always seems improvised somehow, like they don't practice it enough to know automatically just what to do from various set shots. I mean, with the pretty close ones on slight angles most players go through a routine, get up pretty close to the mark and just kick straight. We have guys going back a long, long way, with weird run-ups and generally banging it on the boot in hope.

Our smalls generally do it a bit better, but even Griff and Higgins have gone from pretty reliable set-shots early in their careers to 50-50 propositions (and in Griff's case, much worse than 50-50).

Serious question chef -- do you really think we put enough emphasis on our set-goalkicking, and are you happy with it?

[Mantis]

Our smalls generally do it a bit better, but even Griff and Higgins have gone from pretty reliable set-shots early in their careers to 50-50 propositions (and in Griff's case, much worse than 50-50).



They showed a stat yesterday that Griff had kicked 16.9 this year from set shots.... To me that means he is 64-36 possibility of kicking a goal. :D

But he did miss all together from that shot so there goes that idea.

[chef]

Serious question chef -- do you really think we put enough emphasis on our set-goalkicking, and are you happy with it?

TBH I wouldn't have a clue on how much emphasis we put on it, that would be better answered by someone who goes to training weekly. I do agree about Jones and Roughead being weak set shots for goal but I think this is more about having a poor kicking action which I don't think can be fixed. I have to disagree about Grant as I think he has a nice action and a straight kick(16 goals 6 this year) with only a bit of penetration lacking. Way to early to judge Cordy.

[LostDoggy]

TBH I wouldn't have a clue on how much emphasis we put on it, that would be better answered by someone who goes to training weekly. I do agree about Jones and Roughead being weak set shots for goal but I think this is more about having a poor kicking action which I don't think can be fixed. I have to disagree about Grant as I think he has a nice action and a straight kick(16 goals 6 this year) with only a bit of penetration lacking. Way to early to judge Cordy.

Good answer! Most of my thoughts are based on perception so I don't have a whole lot of stats to back it up, hope that they all prove me wrong over their careers -- no one would be happier than myself.

ps. Grant has a great action kicking for goal on the run or in open play. Set shot kicking is mainly between the ears, as Granty (Chris!) can well tell anyone.

[LostDoggy]

Cordy's shot was his only kick, late in his first game so he might of been stuffed or nerves got to him. Still should have got the distance. Jury still out of his kicking.

[GVGjr]

Grant's pretty reliable to me and Cordy's had one shot, bit early to be calling him terrible.

Cordy isn't a good kick for goals based on what I have seen. 'Terrible' might be on the harsh side of assessments but he has some work to do to become regarded as average.

[GVGjr]

Good answer! Most of my thoughts are based on perception so I don't have a whole lot of stats to back it up, hope that they all prove me wrong over their careers -- no one would be happier than myself.

ps. Grant has a great action kicking for goal on the run or in open play. Set shot kicking is mainly between the ears, as Granty (Chris!) can well tell anyone.

I've banged on about this numerous times but from the training sessions I have seen our application to set shots for goals is very poor. The players regularly cheat by running off their line plus we rarely have someone standing on the mark. There is also no one giving players a spray when they miss their 3rd shot because they didn't again allow for the wind.

Needs to get better.

[Ghost Dog]

I've banged on about this numerous times but from the training sessions I have seen our application to set shots for goals is very poor. The players regularly cheat by running off their line plus we rarely have someone standing on the mark. There is also no one giving players a spray when they miss their 3rd shot because they didn't again allow for the wind.

Needs to get better.

Permission to print that out and post it to the club? :D

[westdog54]

They showed a stat yesterday that Griff had kicked 16.9 this year from set shots.... To me that means he is 64-36 possibility of kicking a goal. :D

But he did miss all together from that shot so there goes that idea.

There should be a 3rd column for set shots, the ones that miss everything. Would paint an interesting picture I think.

[LostDoggy]

He wasn't up to it. He actually reminded me of Cam Wight in his first game against NM at Docklands ..... seemed to run up and down on the spot and have no presence on the ground.

Didn't instil any hope into me yesterday.

[strebla]

Good answer! Most of my thoughts are based on perception so I don't have a whole lot of stats to back it up, hope that they all prove me wrong over their careers -- no one would be happier than myself.

ps. Grant has a great action kicking for goal on the run or in open play. Set shot kicking is mainly between the ears, as Granty (Chris!) can well tell anyone.

This having a go at C. Grant's goalkicking annoys the crap out of me he played half his life in the backline and kicked over 500 goals if he spent all his time forward he would have kicked in exess of 800 goals give it a rest!!!

[ledge]

This having a go at C. Grant's goalkicking annoys the crap out of me he played half his life in the backline and kicked over 500 goals if he spent all his time forward he would have kicked in exess of 800 goals give it a rest!!!

How is that having a go at C. Grants goal kicking?
All he said was Chris had said its between the ears.

[strebla]

How is that having a go at C. Grants goal kicking?
All he said was Chris had said its between the ears.

That is not the way I read it Ledge if i misunderstood I am sorry but the way I took it was that Chris struggled to kick goals(he did at times).I do get a little precious when it comes to Chris but for that I shall never apologise.

[BulldogBelle]

He wasn't up to it. He actually reminded me of Cam Wight in his first game against NM at Docklands ..... seemed to run up and down on the spot and have no presence on the ground.

Didn't instil any hope into me yesterday.



What? A >200cm defender without much aggression or intensity?

First game you can expect some gitters

The older Ayce gets the better he will become - he will be miles ahead of Cam Wight!

His decision making was reasonable, he can defend reasonably well at VFL level, he is great at ground level below his knees etc

[Mantis]

He wasn't up to it. He actually reminded me of Cam Wight in his first game against NM at Docklands ..... seemed to run up and down on the spot and have no presence on the ground.

Didn't instil any hope into me yesterday.

Did you see Luke Darcy play his first game for the club out at Waverley?

Talk about someone running up and down on the spot, he looked like he was running on a treadmill.

[LostDoggy]

That is not the way I read it Ledge if i misunderstood I am sorry but the way I took it was that Chris struggled to kick goals(he did at times).I do get a little precious when it comes to Chris but for that I shall never apologise.

Er.

Okay. First of all, both of us are in furious agreement. I love Chris as much as the next guy.

Secondly, he was a beautiful kick of the ball -- could hit people in the chest 50 metres away with a kick that never went above head height.

Thirdly, he was a bloody good goalkicker, especially early in his career, and late on. His kick to win the 'uber-flood' game against Essendon in 2001 (2000?) was as good a game-winning kick under pressure as you'll see. Positively John Eales like.

However, he did have that season and a half where he struggled with his goalkicking, and he openly admitted as much. It got to the point where he would walk up and expect to miss. Bernhard Langer had it in golf too, even though he was a solid putter back in the day. Lindsay Thomas at North had it this season, even though he never misses in training. It can happen to anyone, and everyone knows it's called the yips, and Granty openly spoke about it.

Clearly, such a beautiful kick of the ball is surely not struggling with the physical side of goalkicking, but the mental side (different to, say, Richo, or Riewoldt, who've always had mechanical issues with their kicking in general so it was never 100% reliable) which may be Jarrad Grant's problem at the moment too (not so much the yips, but perhaps just some mental sloppiness when he has time to think about it).

That's all I was saying.

[bornadog]

Er.

Okay. First of all, both of us are in furious agreement. I love Chris as much as the next guy.

Secondly, he was a beautiful kick of the ball -- could hit people in the chest 50 metres away with a kick that never went above head height.

Thirdly, he was a bloody good goalkicker, especially early in his career, and late on. His kick to win the 'uber-flood' game against Essendon in 2001 (2000?) was as good a game-winning kick under pressure as you'll see. Positively John Eales like.

However, he did have that season and a half where he struggled with his goalkicking, and he openly admitted as much. It got to the point where he would walk up and expect to miss. Bernhard Langer had it in golf too, even though he was a solid putter back in the day. Lindsay Thomas at North had it this season, even though he never misses in training. It can happen to anyone, and everyone knows it's called the yips, and Granty openly spoke about it.

Clearly, such a beautiful kick of the ball is surely not struggling with the physical side of goalkicking, but the mental side (different to, say, Richo, or Riewoldt, who've always had mechanical issues with their kicking in general so it was never 100% reliable) which may be Jarrad Grant's problem at the moment too (not so much the yips, but perhaps just some mental sloppiness when he has time to think about it).

That's all I was saying.

One of the best seasons I enjoyed, even though we didn't make the finals was 1990 when Chris was at FF and Leon Cameron on the wing, both 17 year old kids.

They were both unbelievably good and really sparked the team in a similar way Dahlhaus has. Chris was just a freak.

[LostDoggy]

Did you see Luke Darcy play his first game for the club out at Waverley?

Talk about someone running up and down on the spot, he looked like he was running on a treadmill.

Haha Darc's running style in open play did sometimes make him look like a showhorse doing dressage ie. pretty trotting patterns in a confined space.

[LostDoggy]

One of the best seasons I enjoyed, even though we didn't make the finals was 1990 when Chris was at FF and Leon Cameron on the wing, both 17 year old kids.

They were both unbelievably good and really sparked the team in a similar way Dahlhaus has. Chris was just a freak.

And plucking marks from nowhere despite being so skinny.. J. Grant should be made to sit down and watch tapes of the 17 year old Chris in action.

[bornadog]

And plucking marks from nowhere despite being so skinny.. J. Grant should be made to sit down and watch tapes of the 17 year old Chris in action.

and also tapes on Leon. Leon looked like his head was bigger than his skinny frame and if it wasn't for Chris would have been talked about more. He had a great season with his accurate long passing along the wings.

[jeemak]

Cordy was a little disappointing, and showed that he has missed out on some early development due to injury. Basic positioning issues allowed some marks to be taken on him, but none of the problems he had for mine portrayed a player that won't benefit from the experience, as well as the feedback during the one on ones he'll be subjected to with coaching staff in the match review process (where the tapes will demonstrate to him clearly what he needs to do next time).

Young players having the yips in their early games isn't something to worry about. Particularly talls towards the end of a game on a big ground. If tentative kicking becomes a pattern for him over the course of a season then sure, I'll be the first to jump on him about it but until then I'm happy to see how he develops that side of his game.

I thought he looked clean on a couple of occasions with his hands after gathering the ball, but there was a couple of chances for him to move the ball by foot that he didn't take. Hopefully as his confidence grows he'll take on the responsibility of kicking the football.

[strebla]

Er.

Okay. First of all, both of us are in furious agreement. I love Chris as much as the next guy.

Secondly, he was a beautiful kick of the ball -- could hit people in the chest 50 metres away with a kick that never went above head height.

Thirdly, he was a bloody good goalkicker, especially early in his career, and late on. His kick to win the 'uber-flood' game against Essendon in 2001 (2000?) was as good a game-winning kick under pressure as you'll see. Positively John Eales like.

However, he did have that season and a half where he struggled with his goalkicking, and he openly admitted as much. It got to the point where he would walk up and expect to miss. Bernhard Langer had it in golf too, even though he was a solid putter back in the day. Lindsay Thomas at North had it this season, even though he never misses in training. It can happen to anyone, and everyone knows it's called the yips, and Granty openly spoke about it.


Clearly, such a beautiful kick of the ball is surely not struggling with the physical side of goalkicking, but the mental side (different to, say, Richo, or Riewoldt, who've always had mechanical issues with their kicking in general so it was never 100% reliable) which may be Jarrad Grant's problem at the moment too (not so much the yips, but perhaps just some mental sloppiness when he has time to think about it).

That's all I was saying.

Yes he did have the "yips" for a year or two but that seems to be all some people talk about whereas i prefer to remember the 5? he kicked in his first game and that goal against the bombers never been so exited in all my life.I could go on and on about this bloke always brings a smile to my face I think I have misinterpreted what you where saying but as I said like you I love this bloke and if I feel the need to defend him I will. I am so over these morons who have no idea just how bloody good this bloke was I am talking about the one eyed idiots from other clubs not you Lantern but there are still bulldog supporters who say Chris would have been in the to echelon with Hird if he could kick and it really gets at me .

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What are some realistic expectations for Cordy heading into 2012?

It'll be his fourth year on the list, and despite injuries in the past, he needs to start producing.

He still looks extremely raw and about another 2-3 years off, but how long can we afford to keep a player on the list?

I think it's a critical year for Ayce.

[The Coon Dog]

What are some realistic expectations for Cordy heading into 2012?

It'll be his fourth year on the list, and despite injuries in the past, he needs to start producing.

He still looks extremely raw and about another 2-3 years off, but how long can we afford to keep a player on the list?

I think it's a critical year for Ayce.

Realistically Ayce would like to a) get through a season without injury, b) improve as a footballer & c) play regular senior football.

I'd like to see Ayce play at least 10 games this season. Just not sure where his best position is though, but I do believe he is one worth persevering with.

[Desipura]

Realistically Ayce would like to a) get through a season without injury, b) improve as a footballer & c) play regular senior football.

I'd like to see Ayce play at least 10 games this season. Just not sure where his best position is though, but I do believe he is one worth persevering with.
I would have to agree with this summation. I think half back is where he should start, especially against the 3rd tall forwards.

[Greystache]

I would have to agree with this summation. I think half back is where he should start, especially against the 3rd tall forwards.

That sounds worryingly like Cameron Wight. Ayce really needs to determine what his best position is and then work towards getting some continuity in that role.

[Mofra]

That sounds worryingly like Cameron Wight. Ayce really needs to determine what his best position is and then work towards getting some continuity in that role.
That's the problem with guys who have a major sellign point of veing "versatile" - nailing down one spot becomes harder.

Everitt was a case in point - jack of all trades, master of none.

[Desipura]

That sounds worryingly like Cameron Wight. Ayce really needs to determine what his best position is and then work towards getting some continuity in that role.

Unfortunately that is where his body is currently at.

[Bulldog Revolution]

What are some realistic expectations for Cordy heading into 2012?

It'll be his fourth year on the list, and despite injuries in the past, he needs to start producing.

He still looks extremely raw and about another 2-3 years off, but how long can we afford to keep a player on the list?

I think it's a critical year for Ayce.

I don't mind if again in 2012 if he doesn't play much senior footy but I want him to make a position his and show that he is really developing and has a position he can play at AFL level.

I personally still think he has to become a ruckman, but the other option is centre half back, but I wonder if he is just too big for that spot, and not athletic enough, given he is close to 6 foot 8.

As a junior, when not injured, he played predominantly ruck/forward right? I still see that as the way forward

Needs a massive preseason

[divvydan]

I would like to see Ayce start the year as Williamstown's #1 ruck. Spend the first half of the season improving as a ruckman, getting confidence in his body and then I'd like to see him push for selection in the AFL side if either of Minson or Roughead aren't performing.

Whilst playing as the #1 ruck at Willi, I'd still like to see him push forward when not rucking as much as possible as he'll need this at AFL level.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Could he play full forward a la Salmon?
I know he's still skinny but could be a good position to aim for?

[lemmon]

Could he play full forward a la Salmon?
I know he's still skinny but could be a good position to aim for?

Thats where I would play him, let him run and jump at the footy, any backman would be worried at that reach.

[LongWait]

The game is demanding more and more that players of various builds and heights play in a varity of roles. The notion of making a "position" your own is dead in my opinion. Even ruckman - who play the most specialised position of all - need to be able to push forward and make an impact on the scoreboard and/or dominate aerially at opposition kick-ins.

If Ayce can stay fit and keep improving he has the ability to stake a regular spot in a team where everyone plays offence, everyone plays defense and everyone can be expected to end up almost anywhere on the ground during various stages of the match.

[the banker]

I would like to see Ayce start the year as Williamstown's #1 ruck. Spend the first half of the season improving as a ruckman, getting confidence in his body and then I'd like to see him push for selection in the AFL side if either of Minson or Roughead aren't performing.

Whilst playing as the #1 ruck at Willi, I'd still like to see him push forward when not rucking as much as possible as he'll need this at AFL level.

I think this is what we need from him.

[Bulldog Revolution]

The game is demanding more and more that players of various builds and heights play in a varity of roles. The notion of making a "position" your own is dead in my opinion. Even ruckman - who play the most specialised position of all - need to be able to push forward and make an impact on the scoreboard and/or dominate aerially at opposition kick-ins.

If Ayce can stay fit and keep improving he has the ability to stake a regular spot in a team where everyone plays offence, everyone plays defense and everyone can be expected to end up almost anywhere on the ground during various stages of the match.

I agree but disagree

In my view there aren't as many positions in the game anymore but you still need a primary position, be it defender, forward or ruck. In Ayce's case he needs to do something well enough to get selected every week.

Unless you are selected as a utility type that can play everywhere, but I dont really see that as Ayces best shot

[gohardorgohome]

Rule changes have made it more difficult for backmen to rough up less strong forwards. This should make life better for agile fast smart skilled forwards.

Go for it Ayce!!!

[LostDoggy]

I gotta say he didnt really do a lot in his first senior game to convince me he is a future player.

[KT31]

I gotta say he didnt really do a lot in his first senior game to convince me he is a future player.

Glad you said it, I was strung and quarted when I mentioned something at half this strength.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don't think many dispute the fact that Cordy has a long, long way to go.

I've been a knocker of his from day one, before he was drafted. I hope he makes it and proves me wrong, but I am worried.

[chef]

I gotta say he didnt really do a lot in his first senior game to convince me he is a future player.

No he didn't, but he looked a lot better in his second before he broke his hand.

[GVGjr]

We have been patient with him but I'd have to think it needs to come together for him in 2012 or we just won't have a spot for him. I still don't know how we can best use him.

[Ghost Dog]

We have been patient with him but I'd have to think it needs to come together for him in 2012 or we just won't have a spot for him. I still don't know how we can best use him.

Kelvin Templeton Mk II. Stick him in the square.

[LostDoggy]

We have been patient with him but I'd have to think it needs to come together for him in 2012 or we just won't have a spot for him. I still don't know how we can best use him.

Yet another wasted first round pick? And we wonder why we have no quality in the 20-25 bracket of our list?

I did say at the time that a skinny, fragile ruck prospect that is also a middling forward sounded far too much like Kosi for my liking. Funny that the Saints would have taken him in the first round if we didn't.

[Sedat]

Yet another wasted first round pick? And we wonder why we have no quality in the 20-25 bracket of our list?
When he nominated for the draft he spent most of that year out injured and was less than 80kgs when drafted, so he was going to have no impact in year 1 in any event. I don't know why the club didn't orchestrate a scenario whereby Ayce didn't nominate in 2008, spend the next year at Wlliamstown as a non-Bulldog listed player, and then nominate for the following year. That way instead of using a top 15 selection in a hot draft, we would have used maybe a 3rd or 4th round selection the following season to secure him.

His 2012 is make or break for him IMO. He's been on the list for 3 years with virtually no impact and little at Willy level. He needs to have a massive pre-season and get himself as fit as he's ever been and command a place in our senior line-up as a ruckman/forward.

[Mitcha]

I don't know why the club didn't orchestrate a scenario whereby Ayce didn't nominate in 2008, spend the next year at Wlliamstown as a non-Bulldog listed player, and then nominate for the following year. That way instead of using a top 15 selection in a hot draft, we would have used maybe a 3rd or 4th round selection the following season to secure him.

From my understanding this was not possible under the father/son scenario.. If father son prospects are not nominated as such in their final year of under 18s they then become just like anyone else (free agent) and available for any club to pick-up.

[stefoid]

When he nominated for the draft he spent most of that year out injured and was less than 80kgs when drafted, so he was going to have no impact in year 1 in any event. I don't know why the club didn't orchestrate a scenario whereby Ayce didn't nominate in 2008, spend the next year at Wlliamstown as a non-Bulldog listed player, and then nominate for the following year. That way instead of using a top 15 selection in a hot draft, we would have used maybe a 3rd or 4th round selection the following season to secure him.


See, thats clever.

Edit: oh, just read the above post. Yeah, I guess the AFL saw that one coming.

[Maddog37]

I think as much as we have been patient with Ayce we must continue to be for this year and probably next.

I just hope he remains injury free so we can actually make a judgement on his abilities.

[GVGjr]

From my understanding this was not possible under the father/son scenario.. If father son prospects are not nominated as such in their final year of under 18s they then become just like anyone else (free agent) and available for any club to pick-up.

That's my understanding to. You can't become a father son pick at say the age of 20.

[bulldogsman]

That's my understanding to. You can't become a father son pick at say the age of 20.

Jacob Brennan (West Coast), was selected under the father son rule at age 20 last year...

[chef]

From my understanding this was not possible under the father/son scenario.. If father son prospects are not nominated as such in their final year of under 18s they then become just like anyone else (free agent) and available for any club to pick-up.

What about Morris from Richmond?

[The Coon Dog]

What about Morris from Richmond?

He wasn't taken under the father/son rule. From memory he was picked up during trade week as a deal between Richmond & GWS where they could trade a number of previously nominated players (similar to the deal the year before between GC & Collingwood to secure Andrew Krakouer).

[chef]

He wasn't taken under the father/son rule. From memory he was picked up during trade week as a deal between Richmond & GWS where they could trade a number of previously nominated players (similar to the deal the year before between GC & Collingwood to secure Andrew Krakouer).

But he was eligible to be a F/S if that deal didn't eventuate.

[Rocco Jones]

don't know why the club didn't orchestrate a scenario whereby Ayce didn't nominate in 2008, spend the next year at Wlliamstown as a non-Bulldog listed player, and then nominate for the following year. That way instead of using a top 15 selection in a hot draft, we would have used maybe a 3rd or 4th round selection the following season to secure him.


Good idea from our side of things but why would Ayce agree to it?

- He would be losing out on a years worth of AFL payments (unless we ochestrated Willi paying him that coin, unrealistic considering he was always going to be 2nds/just filling a spot in VFL seniors type in his first year).

- Security of a two-year contract from the get go.

Also, the issue is whether he was worth the pick anyway. If we thought his value would drop that easily, they go for him as our 1st pick.

Does another club go even close to how loudly we trumphet a potential father/son? Other clubs aren't risking much by bluffing interest to get us to committ to early selections. Another manner in which the club's overall lack of success really lead to a culture of extreme adulation of individuals who represent it.

[Ghost Dog]

Good idea from our side of things but why would Ayce agree to it?

- He would be losing out on a years worth of AFL payments (unless we ochestrated Willi paying him that coin, unrealistic considering he was always going to be 2nds/just filling a spot in VFL seniors type in his first year).

- Security of a two-year contract from the get go.

Also, the issue is whether he was worth the pick anyway. If we thought his value would drop that easily, they go for him as our 1st pick.

Does another club go even close to how loudly we trumphet a potential father/son? Other clubs aren't risking much by bluffing interest to get us to committ to early selections. Another manner in which the club's overall lack of success really lead to a culture of extreme adulation of individuals who represent it.




Easy to be retrospective, but that's a bit unfair. read below.
Geelong Falcons regional manager Michael Turner, who has overseen Cordy's rapid rise, yesterday declared: "From what I've seen of Ayce, if he's not a top-five draft pick, I'm a bad judge."
A state basketballer, showing great athleticism and kicking goals at the AIS as a junior, performing well.
There were a number of other clubs circling IIRC.

Also, I don't like the suggestion many make eg: " Ayce needs to pick his position and perform consistently at it' or words to that effect.
How can he choose his own position? That's for the coaching staff to determine.

[Rocco Jones]

Easy to be retrospective, but that's a bit unfair.


'Also, the issue is whether he was worth the pick anyway'

I meant that as a question rather than a statement.



Geelong Falcons regional manager Michael Turner, who has overseen Cordy's rapid rise, yesterday declared: "From what I've seen of Ayce, if he's not a top-five draft pick, I'm a bad judge."


Turner says that about at least 6 Geelong Falcons each year.

[Ghost Dog]

'Also, the issue is whether he was worth the pick anyway'

I meant that as a question rather than a statement.



Turner says that about at least 6 Geelong Falcons each year.

Well, they do turn out quite a few champions. Anyway, the line above sounds like a cynical take on things.
Look even if it doesn't turn out, with his physical gifts, club connection and our needs, it was worth a punt.

[Rocco Jones]

Well, they do turn out quite a few champions. Anyway, the line above sounds like a cynical take on things.
Look even if it doesn't turn out, with his physical gifts, club connection and our needs, it was worth a punt.

The point of my original post was to reply to Sedat's suggestion about Cordy sitting out a year playing for Willi. Basically I wanted to say why would he do it?

I definitely think he was worth the punt and was not meaning to be cynical, just that Turner is well known for talking his boys up.

[KT31]

Was Cordy ever touted as being selected at another club or were the Saint's just being pricks by suggesting they would select him ?
No matter if they wanted him or not , it means a team is forced to make their choice and its one less pick at a player another team wants.

[Sedat]

Was Cordy ever touted as being selected at another club or were the Saint's just being pricks by suggesting they would select him ?No matter if they wanted him or not , it means a team is forced to make their choice and its one less pick at a player another team wants.
Matthew Drain orchestrated the St Kilda pick bid, as he and Rocket had a big falling out when he was at the Dogs. Whether ot not they were serious about using their first round pick is another story, as Cordy was always going to be drafted by us (rightly or wrongly).

Bulldogsman raised the point about Jacob Brennan being 20yo and taken as a F/S, which is why I asked the same question re: Cordy. Wasn't Dylan Buckley also eligible to nominate for the ND last year but decided not to? He was taken F/S by Carlton this year.

Rocco is right about us trumpeting the future F/S prospects far too prominently. Since the bidding system came in place, we have done more tyre pumping about our F/S prospects than any other club. I barely heard a word about Tom Mitchell this year until a couple of weeks before the ND - compare that to the previous year when Wallis and Libba were paraded ad nauseum for several months prior to the ND.

[BulldogBelle]

Was Cordy ever touted as being selected at another club or were the Saint's just being pricks by suggesting they would select him ?
No matter if they wanted him or not , it means a team is forced to make their choice and its one less pick at a player another team wants.


I thought the Saints nominated that they would take him with their first pick - and therefore they forced our hand with his selection via our first pick

[stefoid]

Matthew Drain orchestrated the St Kilda pick bid, as he and Rocket had a big falling out when he was at the Dogs. Whether ot not they were serious about using their first round pick is another story, as Cordy was always going to be drafted by us (rightly or wrongly).

Bulldogsman raised the point about Jacob Brennan being 20yo and taken as a F/S, which is why I asked the same question re: Cordy. Wasn't Dylan Buckley also eligible to nominate for the ND last year but decided not to? He was taken F/S by Carlton this year.

Rocco is right about us trumpeting the future F/S prospects far too prominently. Since the bidding system came in place, we have done more tyre pumping about our F/S prospects than any other club. I barely heard a word about Tom Mitchell this year until a couple of weeks before the ND - compare that to the previous year when Wallis and Libba were paraded ad nauseum for several months prior to the ND.

Its a long bow to suggest that club media statements drive up the price of F/S.

But yeah, holding off on Cordy for a tripple header would have been outstanding value - Geelong-esque.

Why would Cordy do it? Come on, Im sure we could have come to 'some arrangement' about his future salary that accoutned for missing out on one year of payments.

If legal, it (would have) been a great idea. Nothing wrong with a suoper-skinny kid with dodgy shoulders delaying his draft for 12 months to protect his own health.

[ledge]

Matthew Drain orchestrated the St Kilda pick bid, as he and Rocket had a big falling out when he was at the Dogs. Whether ot not they were serious about using their first round pick is another story, as Cordy was always going to be drafted by us (rightly or wrongly).

Bulldogsman raised the point about Jacob Brennan being 20yo and taken as a F/S, which is why I asked the same question re: Cordy. Wasn't Dylan Buckley also eligible to nominate for the ND last year but decided not to? He was taken F/S by Carlton this year.

Rocco is right about us trumpeting the future F/S prospects far too prominently. Since the bidding system came in place, we have done more tyre pumping about our F/S prospects than any other club. I barely heard a word about Tom Mitchell this year until a couple of weeks before the ND - compare that to the previous year when Wallis and Libba were paraded ad nauseum for several months prior to the ND.

When ones captain of the under 18s premiership team and i think had the most possesions in the competition, and the other was feeding him it wasnt us parading him it was their talent, not one club wouldnt have taken them, it was there for all to see.