Cats and Saints in 2011

[Dry Rot]

How will the Cats and Saints go in 2011?

Do the Saints have much improvement left in their list? They don't seem to much young quality coming through, and their handful of stars won't get any better. Over the last 2 seasons, they have also been blessed with few injuries (Riewoldt aside). Did Gardiner retire? Their ruck stocks don't look too flash either.

The Cats are an interesting one. Obviously there's the loss of Ablett but there's also the perception that many on their list are getting on. Ottens and Chapman are often injured, Hawkins is a spud, Pods exposed against the best teams and Mooney fading. Ditto Scarlett. Will be interesting to see what the new coach can do. Midfield is still very strong, ruck division poor.

Both sides have been in a fixture in the Top 4 recently, but can they repeat that in 2011?

[Remi Moses]

When someone contemplates retirement they're effectively retired.
Stkilda would need another astronomical performance from their top liners to make it back.
Their big hope was that first GF when the pies had all their key players down and they didn't get the job done,a pragmatic saints fan at work reckons they've got little coming through and it's now and possibly the next12 months or bust.
Stkilda are going to pay a massive price for their recycling and in particular last season.
Nothing would give this poster more satisfaction than the smarmy boring cliched windbag coach with his shit boring gameplan fall down the table

As for the catters I think they'll still finish top 6 but it will be a gradual fall.

[The Coon Dog]

Nothing would give this poster more satisfaction than the smarmy boring cliched windbag coach with his shit boring gameplan fall down the table.

Amen!

[LostDoggy]

Bottom of the 8 for both.

I just hope we don't join them but I see us top 4 next year.

[chef]

Unless either get hit hard by injury I can't see them slipping to far down the ladder.

The Saints will be up near the top again as they still have a very good side(a lot will come down to hunger).

The Cats on the over hand will drop a little but still finish from 4th-7th.

[GVGjr]

Saints to finish top and the Cats about 5th.

[Remi Moses]

Blimey if Gardiner retires Ben Mcevoy's the number one ruck!
Bit of potential but number one banana,I'm not sure.

[mjp]

The Cats on the over hand will drop a little but still finish from 4th-7th.

If Ottens misses games, if Mooney is as 'gone' as he looked in 2010, if Scarlett keeps slowing down, if Ling and Corey really are finished...

Geelong could be in trouble next year. Even with Ablett it would have been tough...their midfield has lost its pace though (do Bartell and Selwood scare anyone?) and it isn't as if they have great forwards up front to bail them out.

Saints should be fine and that hated game-plan sure is effective.

[chef]

If Ottens misses games, if Mooney is as 'gone' as he looked in 2010, if Scarlett keeps slowing down, if Ling and Corey really are finished...

Geelong could be in trouble next year. Even with Ablett it would have been tough...their midfield has lost its pace though (do Bartell and Selwood scare anyone?) and it isn't as if they have great forwards up front to bail them out.

Saints should be fine and that hated game-plan sure is effective.

I still think they have plenty of talent which will ensure that they don't drop to far to quickly, but a lot will come down to their run with injuries.

Bartel was in very good form this year before he hurt his elbow against the Saints and had to play out the season with an injury that needed surgery, IMO he would scare 16 other clubs.

[mjp]

Bartel was in very good form this year before he hurt his elbow against the Saints and had to play out the season with an injury that needed surgery, IMO he would scare 16 other clubs.

Yeah, but he is a distributor. I don't deny he is a ripper player, but he wont beat you. I feel about Bartel the way supporters of every other club felt about Scooter.

[Mantis]

If Ottens misses games, if Mooney is as 'gone' as he looked in 2010, if Scarlett keeps slowing down, if Ling and Corey really are finished...

Geelong could be in trouble next year. Even with Ablett it would have been tough...their midfield has lost its pace though (do Bartell and Selwood scare anyone?) and it isn't as if they have great forwards up front to bail them out.

Saints should be fine and that hated game-plan sure is effective.

He looked like Usain Bolt against us when they flogged us in rd 20, but no he isn't all that quick.

I also agree with your thoughts that Geelong will fall away... but will be interested to see what Scott does to try and keep them up with the pack.

St.Kilda will be an interesting one... Will Lyon re-jig things a little in the hope that they can close the gap or will they wipe off GF2 as a bad day and stick fat with his tried & tested formula.

[Mofra]

I think Geelong will fall. Besides losing Ablett, Ling limped to the end of the year, and considering Johhno was well past his best in 2010 after having a great year in 2009 (high in B&F count, near the top in AFL assists etc) I expect Ling to be carried during the season.
Scarlett & Mooney will reduce in output, and their tall forward cupboard looks bare unless Mitch Brown comes on (J Pod wont be the difference and I don't rate Hawkins).
Taylor is quality and Lonergan gives them tall back cover so their defence should still stand tall, but they are now firmly back in the pack.

We should overtake the Saints in 2011 - their core group is getting older and possibly more injury prone. Lose one of Montagna, Hayes or Goddard and they are back with the pack - their ruck stocks depend on McEvoy (who I rate) and Kosi (who I don't) being able to back up an aging Gardiner.

[LostDoggy]

Cats 2nd
St Kilda 4th

I think they will decline but I dont see who will improve enough to go past them. We will fumble our way into third, if thats something you can fumble...

[ledge]

I think next season will be a very open year as far as a premiership is concerned, could be a pinched one like Hawthorns and The Crows a few years back.
Lets hope its us!

[LostDoggy]

Cats 2nd
St Kilda 4th

I think they will decline but I dont see who will improve enough to go past them. We will fumble our way into third, if thats something you can fumble...

If Cats finish 2nd Marcov, i'll buy you a slab.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Geelong will still probably have enough class to finish around 4th-6th but it's difficult to see them being able to compete with the top two - maybe three sides. They've got some talented youngsters in Duncan and Menzel, but the bulk of their list can only decline from this point forward. Ottens, Scarlett, Mooney, Ling, Corey, Pods, Enright etc. They still have a poor ruck division and nobody lethal up forward.

Saints are an interesting one as others have noted. Goddard, Riewoldt and Hayes are simply amazing players but can Hayes continue to play inspirational A grade footbal at 30+? The thing is, if one or two of their top 5-6 players drop off slightly, they'll drop a few places. They certainly won't improve - they may maintain, though. Jack Steven looks like a player but outside of him they haven't got much coming through the ranks.

[LostDoggy]

Where will Collingwood be in 2011?

[Doggy]

Cats 2nd
St Kilda 4th

I think they will decline but I dont see who will improve enough to go past them. We will fumble our way into third, if thats something you can fumble...

Cats 2nd?
Isn't that an improvement?

What beer do you drink? I will also give you a slab if the cats finnish second.

[LostDoggy]

Will the top 4 stay the same in content, if not composition?

Which club from outside this year's 4 can break in? Hawthorn? Freo? Sydney?

Which of the 4 can drop out? Geelong? Us?

It's hard to say how St.Kilda or the Cats will go without taking into account where the other teams are at. It's also hard to see much change from this year -- while tables used to fluctuate dramatically from year to year, these past two seasons have been astonishingly consistent, apart from Freo's emergence, and some Melbourne spark.

[boydogs]

Will the top 4 stay the same in content, if not composition?

Which club from outside this year's 4 can break in? Hawthorn? Freo? Sydney?

Which of the 4 can drop out? Geelong? Us?

It's hard to say how St.Kilda or the Cats will go without taking into account where the other teams are at. It's also hard to see much change from this year -- while tables used to fluctuate dramatically from year to year, these past two seasons have been astonishingly consistent, apart from Freo's emergence, and some Melbourne spark.

Cats are in trouble IMO. Saints, Pies, Bulldogs, Freo top 4. Melbourne & Richmond to push for finals.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Both gone for mine, The cats will be around 6th this year and the saints just scrap in the 8. IMO top 4 will be Pies, Dogs, Freo, Swans (Skinny will make the difference this year)

[LostDoggy]

If Cats finish 2nd Marcov, i'll buy you a slab.


Cats 2nd?
Isn't that an improvement?

What beer do you drink? I will also give you a slab if the cats finnish second.

Boags premium thanks lads.

[MrMahatma]

When someone contemplates retirement they're effectively retired.
Stkilda would need another astronomical performance from their top liners to make it back.
Their big hope was that first GF when the pies had all their key players down and they didn't get the job done,a pragmatic saints fan at work reckons they've got little coming through and it's now and possibly the next12 months or bust.
Stkilda are going to pay a massive price for their recycling and in particular last season.
Nothing would give this poster more satisfaction than the smarmy boring cliched windbag coach with his shit boring gameplan fall down the table

As for the catters I think they'll still finish top 6 but it will be a gradual fall.
They recycled to try and win a flag and were a bee's appendage away from succeeding. Sometimes you have to load up and have a crack. I don't balme them for it. The question is more now about an understanding of where their list is at and when to suck it up for a few years and start again... Essentially what many pundits are saying about us and even more will in the post Hall/Hudson seasons not far ahead.

[Remi Moses]

They recycled to try and win a flag and were a bee's appendage away from succeeding. Sometimes you have to load up and have a crack. I don't balme them for it. The question is more now about an understanding of where their list is at and when to suck it up for a few years and start again... Essentially what many pundits are saying about us and even more will in the post Hall/Hudson seasons not far ahead.

Difference is we have better young players coming through,yes I know we're biased and all that but I've had the same view echoed from Stkilda supporters.
Agree about them having a crack but you have to have one eye on the present and one on the future and I think Stkilda have gone a little to much on the present.

[Twodogs]

Essentially what many pundits are saying about us and even more will in the post Hall/Hudson seasons not far ahead.

I'm not that worried about Hudson/Hall retirements looming. We have Grant, Roughhead, Cordy coming into the side to replace them.


What worries me is what are we going to do when Lake retires?

[Mofra]

What worries me is what are we going to do when Lake retires?
Yes, and Morris.
Williams may be able to develop the ability to shut down his opponent but I doubt he'll ever gain the nous for zoning off and rebound.

Lake did have to learn the hard way though, given he was often the only legitimate tall down in defence so had to figure out when to cover the second opposition tall.

[GVGjr]

Yes, and Morris.
Williams may be able to develop the ability to shut down his opponent but I doubt he'll ever gain the nous for zoning off and rebound.

Lake did have to learn the hard way though, given he was often the only legitimate tall down in defence so had to figure out when to cover the second opposition tall.

We just haven't quite been able to get that additional genuine tall defender on the list. Boumann could have been that player. Mulligan was also being groomed for a key position but would need to taken a giant step in 2011 to achieve that and Markovic is only an option for the short term. Tiller has had no luck with injuries.

Getting a player like Lake so late in the draft was a great get.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

I'm not that worried about Hudson/Hall retirements looming. We have Grant, Roughhead, Cordy coming into the side to replace them.


What worries me is what are we going to do when Lake retires?

Why all the panicing? Brian has at least 3 years left, who knows what may or may not happen in that time.. I'm a glass half full kinda girl :D

[LostDoggy]

Lake is a once-a-generation type, so we shouldn't be hoping to get another Lake -- if Williams or another tall defender comes on and does a respectable job, that would be a good outcome.

[Mofra]

Why all the panicing? Brian has at least 3 years left, who knows what may or may not happen in that time.. I'm a glass half full kinda girl :D
It would take 3 years to blood/groom a replacement, there's no way someone could just step into that role from VFL level.

Ideally we would have had a young tall FB showing some promise this year at VFL level.

[The Underdog]

It would take 3 years to blood/groom a replacement, there's no way someone could just step into that role from VFL level.

Ideally we would have had a young tall FB showing some promise this year at VFL level.

I think we have to hope that Williams continues to improve and stay fit and become the next no.1 key back. There's certainly nobody else on the current list I can see steping up to senior grade, unless Jones eventually moves back.

[azabob]

I think we have to hope that Williams continues to improve and stay fit and become the next no.1 key back. There's certainly nobody else on the current list I can see steping up to senior grade, unless Jones eventually moves back.

I think Williams was fairly good and consitant in 2010, and showed no reason why he cant continue to improve but as you say the big key is staying injury free.

[LostDoggy]

I think Williams was fairly good and consitant in 2010, and showed no reason why he cant continue to improve but as you say the big key is staying injury free.

Agree