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Go_Dogs
28-07-2007, 03:18 PM
By now we would all have our own thoughts as to who needs to go, who should stay, who could be potential trade bait and the types of players that we should be drafting for. Here is my attempt as to perhaps what I would like to see going forward from this point.

Addison - Has shown enough to warrant selection, and his aggression at the ball and contest has been very pleasing. His disposal and decision making let him down at times, but those are areas that the coaching staff can make improvements on. He is a part of our plan going forward and could become a 150+ game player for us.

Akermanis - Hasn't set the world on fire, but hasn't been as disappointing as some will suggest. His workrate, knowledge and experience are crucial and he'll be an important player for the next few years.

Baird - Has had a disappointing 2007, especially on the back of his impressive 2006. I still feel that Baird can offer something as a lead up forward, similar to the role that Hansen plays at WC. He's good on the lead and has good hands. He's been trialled in the backline a bit this season also, and if he can convince the coaching staff that his personal issues are behind him, and he's ready to have a big pre-season and big dip next year, I think he will figure in our plans. His recent form and getting back in the Werribee 1's team has been pleasing. Not too sure where his future lies, but one who I feel is worth persisting with.

Boyd - Been one of our standout performers this year, and once West/Cross are back can probably slot back into a more negating role in which he has proven himself to be very successful in. Reasonably young and certainly a big player in us going forward.

Cooney - Has again struggled a bit with his consistency, but overall his year has been pleasing. He's an exciting, skillful goal kicking midfielder, so he certainly has all the attributes and ticks the boxes. His defensive efforts have improved his year, and if he continues to work hard will be one of the best players to put on a Dogs uniform. He can play forward too, and I wouldn't mind seeing him one out more often if he's struggling with a tag.

Cross - Another standout performer before injury. His work rate alone lifts our team, helps us create space and he's as hard as they come. His contested marking is also a feature of his game, as is his tackling and ability to win the ball in traffic and inside packs. A key to our future, no doubt.

Darcy - Tough one. If we had another developing ruckmen who had a bit of potential I'd say it would most definitely just about be curtains for Darcy. The fact that we don't means that he could quite possibly play on next year. There are concerns over his ability to get back to some level of consistent form, and if he cannot get himself to a level of consistent performance (not asking for the world, just a bit of consistency), he could still be a very useful player next season.

Eagleton - Been a great performer most of the year, and finally seems to be getting a bit more recognition. Still on the right side of 30 and will be an important player for at least another 3 years. He has his flaws, but as far as run and carry players go, with his speed and ability to goal from outside 50 he's still a needed player.

Everitt - This lad has been impressive, very impressive. Actually feel he could have started playing a bit earlier than he did, and he will certainly be an important player for us going forward - either down back, up forward or through the midfield. His potential is almost limitless as he's a good athlete with excellent skills and a good head on him, I think he'll play a lot of senior football as a midfielder ala Chad Cornes, eventually.

Faulkner - One that will come under a lot of scrutiny and will most likely be gone at the end of the year. Cam has a lot of qualities that I think we could use, however his application and dedication must be questioned, and with his limited opportunities this year, it seems pretty clear what his fate will be. His fitness and disposal/decision making his downfalls.

Giansiracusa - Hasn't stepped up to that next level this year, like a lot predicted he would. His 2005 and 2006 were better years, although his 2007 has been relatively pleasing it hasn't been a break out year for Gia. His ability to use the ball is important, as is his vision and decision making. He throws himself into the contest too, which is pleasing. Going to be an important player if we are to make a serious challenge for a flag in the next 5 years, and I'd even like to see him played off a half back flank.

Gilbee - Has sometimes been shut out of games this year, but continues to be our general down back setting up a lot of play with his great skills. His run and carry has also been impressive, and he's definitely in the plans going forward.

Grant - Most likely will retire at the years end, which I feel is probably the right move as sad as it is. Age is catching up, and I feel that he's going to struggle with soft tissue injuries if he continues to play.

Griffen - In my eyes, our most important player going forward. Had struggled this year with injury prior to his knee, but the kid is the complete package and will be a very dominate midfield player. Ticks all the boxes, and is a leader. I'd like to see him be our next captain.

Hahn - Definitely a needed player going forward, his bash and crash is very important and I'd like to see him play more as a midfielder first, forward second next year. His engine has been surprisingly good this year for mine, and I think thats where he's most use to us. A team player, who will do what is asked.

Harbrow - Has been very impressive, and his attitude and 'coach-ability' are obvious strengths, his defensive efforts pleasing and he has a bit of dash, which is great. Definitely in our plans moving forward, and could also be a potential leader too.

Hargrave - A required player who can play at either end of the ground. His run has been pleasing this year, and he's continued to play some big roles down back. In the plans going forward without a doubt.

Harris - Required player, obviously. Standout performer this year, and I think forward line duties beckon.

Higgins - Whilst he has been pleasing this year, his defensive efforts and workrate must improve if he's going to be an elite midfielder. He has smarts, vision, poise and knows where the goals are. If he can improve his fitness and willingness to do the hard, team things will be a star. Definitely in the plans going forward.

Hill - Didn't set the world on fire last night and probably wasn't quite ready for AFL, but at the same time did some pleasing things and certainly looks like he has enough talent and positive attributes to work with. I like the potential elements he offers with speed, and marking.

Hughes - I've been happy with his year, although I think his 2006 back in Norwood was slightly better. For mine, his run and disposal are good and he should be persisted with either on the RL again or perhaps on the senior list. His defensive efforts seem to be an area of concern, and something that Gavin will be working on. Not too sure where he lies, but I feel he's got enough upside to persist with.

Johnson - What needs to be said. Probably can play as a forward for at least another 2-3 years.

Lynch - Very slight of body, but has been pleasing. Can kick a goal, crumb and mark. I don't think he'll ever put on a heap of bulk, but his agility will make up for that. Going to be an exciting player to watch, and his defensive ability in the F50 will be very important.

McCormack - Sadly had his year almost ruined by injury, as surely he would've been playing quite a few games this year. I've liked what I've seen of him, he's tough and has a nice foot. Not the quickest player on the list, but one with enough upside and seems like he could play a role in the team perhaps as a negating mid or BP. He will be persisted with I think.

McDougall - his attitude hasn't been all that pleasing, although it was always stated publicly that it was to be a development year for him. Not too sure where he lies, but potentially could be a backmen/forward/part time ruck. Would like to finish his year off strongly.

McMahon - has often been critised of late, and his performance the second half of the season hasn't matched that of his first 6 weeks where he was one of our best players. I'd like to see him free'd up from the backline and played forward of centre a bit. Could be a potential trade bait, but I want to see Jordie play out his days as a Dog.

Minson - Has struggled this year and is now injured. Definitely in the plans going forward though.

Morris - Definitely in the plans going forward, required player.

Murphy - As above.

O'Shea - Has been pleasing too. For such a young kid, he'd be getting a lot out of the experience and playing in a better standard competition than he would have back in Qld. His fearless attack on the ball and contest gets me excited, and I think he could prove to be a beauty. Will get at least 2 more yeas of development before any decisions are made, unless he has a shocker next year.

Pask - Has been pleasing in his role as a spare, safeguard tall. Not sure if he'll make it onto the senior list, but could be a possible player down back or up forward. Perhaps worth persisting with one more year on the RL or perhaps even on the senior list if his form warrants it. His attitude and ability to work and train hard is pleasing.

Power - For mine, he's gone. Has been given numerous opportunities but hasn't grasped them. He seems to have all the skills and attributes but his inability to spot up targets by foot, and to play the role given to him will cost him. Could be a potential trade too.

Ray - Has had a good year, his defensive side is improving, his marking has improved with his bigger frame, and although not known for throwing himself into contests, has improved on that aspect greatly this year for mine. Still struggles with his decision making at times, but is certainly an important player going forward. Could be a potential trade too, but I think he's well liked in the group and has shown enough to suggest that we should definitely persist with him. A lot of upside.

Robbins - Another who I feel will be gone. He's very limited and his defensive work rate is not what it was last year. Too often goes missing for long periods of matches and his lack of versatility at least over the last few years will cost him I feel.

Skipper - Wasn't too bad last night, but he doesn't really fit in anywhere and doesn't have any excellent attributes. Will be lucky to survive, but due to our ruck shortage, who knows.

Stack - Haven't seen a lot of him, but his speed and power will be exciting. I have high hopes. Will be given time to develop, next year expect to see a lot more of him.

Street - Has been OK this year, but not great. He's slowly improving, but his best is still not really THAT good, and his worst is pretty darn dreadful. Will be retained, but needs to continue to work on his tap work, and ability to stick a mark. He's got to throw his body around a bit more too.

Tiller - I was reasonably pleased with what I saw of him last night, another one like Baird, and will definitely get persisted with for another year. If he can keep his body right, could be an important player as early as next year.

Walsh - As we continue to cry out for a key forward I think we'll retain Walsh. Injuries have burnt him in his time here, but he has the potential to be an important player and will be one we persist with, or at least should, especially if the draft isn't very deep.

Go_Dogs
28-07-2007, 03:18 PM
M.West - Sadly, he's gawn I feel. All reports on him were good, but due to his unlucky run with injuries I think he's missed the boat. Not many blokes come back from 2 ACL's and play well, and the fact he's had 2 at such a young age scares me a lot.

S.West - Will play at least 1 more year. Still required no doubt.

Wight - Required player, who has shown quite a lot. I've been very impressed with Cam's development over the past 2 years, and he's certainly in the plans going forward.

Williams - As above, definitely a required player. As a few suggested, has got the opportunity and hasn't looked back. Wouldn't mind seeing him as a forward, and he ticks all the boxes as far as athletic ability, and his foot skills have been pleasing. His hands are not quite there yet, but that will come with more games.


Any thoughts on what I got right, or wrong etc?

Dry Rot
28-07-2007, 04:00 PM
Bloody good post, MM23.

But do we first need to state how we see say the next three years?

IMHO, this list not capable of being Top 4 material. Someone (That's Golden?) posted that there are too many similar players. I'd add that there are significant holes that this list can't address.

Dunno if the club can afford to do this, but IMHO we need to clear out the list and rebuild in the next couple of years. There could even be some trades eg Ray which cause some tears.

Whether by drafting or trading, we need some big bodied guys generally. We need guys whose Wisbey profiles bang on about intensity and courage, not speed.

I'm sure others here may disagree and claim that we're still a good chance in the next three years, and we only need to tinker with our list.

I disagree.

LostDoggy
28-07-2007, 04:15 PM
good analysis..

especially after last night..lot of players that didnt stand up when they should have..

and then youve got your young players like Andrejs Everitt standing up and showing the more experienced how its done. This kid is so vital to our future we will need to pay him as much as it takes to not be lured to another club.

Dry Rot
28-07-2007, 04:32 PM
good analysis..

especially after last night..lot of players that didnt stand up when they should have..

and then youve got your young players like Andrejs Everitt standing up and showing the more experienced how its done. This kid is so vital to our future we will need to pay him as much as it takes to not be lured to another club.

Welcome to WOOF, alexxx.

Agreed - Everitt and Boyd were the only two bright lights out of last night's debacle.

BulldogBelle
28-07-2007, 04:35 PM
and then youve got your young players like Andrejs Everitt standing up and showing the more experienced how its done. This kid is so vital to our future we will need to pay him as much as it takes to not be lured to another club.

Welcome alexxx, Nice to have you on board.

Everitt will be very good for our team, Robert Walls is saying he will be better that his brother. I really think we are onto a winner with him, hard to imagine he has only played 3 games.

LostDoggy
28-07-2007, 05:27 PM
yeah he will need to pack on lots of KGs over summer and bulk himself up a bit..and then try and keep the speed he has at the moment..

dont wanna turn this into an everitt thread though...so moving on

we have a bit of trade bait there but who would we want to snap up? obviously someone like Pavlich would be ideal, but if we cant have him..who would we want? Brendan Fevola isnt out of the question like Eade mentioned..

LostDoggy
28-07-2007, 05:37 PM
Skipper - Wasn't too bad last night, but he doesn't really fit in anywhere and doesn't have any excellent attributes. Will be lucky to survive, but due to our ruck shortage, who knows.

Street - Has been OK this year, but not great. He's slowly improving, but his best is still not really THAT good, and his worst is pretty darn dreadful. Will be retained, but needs to continue to work on his tap work, and ability to stick a mark. He's got to throw his body around a bit more too.

After last night I think Skipper deserves more a spot on the list than Street.
I know one swallow doesn't make a summer but Street hasn't performed that well all year.
Skipper looks bulkier and did a lot more in linking up than Street.
Maybe he knew he was on his chance but I would give him the rest of the year in the seniors and then reassess whether he deserves a spot on the list.

The Coon Dog
28-07-2007, 05:46 PM
Great post MM23, pretty well right with most of it.

I still don't want to see Farren Ray traded. Enormous upside & as I said once on BF, he is a 200 game player in the making & his second 100 games will be much better than his first 100 games.

Go_Dogs
29-07-2007, 09:44 AM
Thanks for all your responses so far.

DR, I'm not to sure we need a complete clean out, but we definitely need to target some more bigger bodied, powerful athletes. I think in recent years Clayton has had a bit of a tendency to do this, Cooney, Griff, Higgins, Addison, Dmac, and even Everitt once he fills out a bit, are all guys who are pretty powerful and certainly of a good physical shape for the game. I think we still need a few more of these types to compliment our list. As far as running types go, I think with Hughes plus all of last years draftees, we are going to have a bit of depth moving forward in that department.

Ernie, I agree that we should persist with Skipper at least for another week or 2 and see what he can offer. Street is safe on the list, and Skipper showed enough to get another chance to prove himself.

TCD, I also agree that Ray, McMahon these guys I would like to see retained by the club. I'm not too convinced we'll play a part in any big trade this off-season, but I again read today that yesterday Eade was again considering the possibility of chasing Fev.

So where to from here? Say we draft the minimum of 3 players and perhaps add 2 rookies also, what types of players would you like us to go for? Use an example of a current player if you can.

LostDoggy
29-07-2007, 12:34 PM
Honestly after watching yesturdays football games, a Jamie Charman would be very ideal.

Unless Luke Darcy gets back to his best - which is yet to be known, we need a versatile ruckman-forward, and Charman is an example of that.

bornadog
29-07-2007, 05:57 PM
M23, Your thoughts echo mine and you have summed up each player pretty well.

Some thoughts from me:

Rucks:
Street - Up till this year, I thought Street was the answer for number one ruck, but I have been a little disspointed with him in the big games against sides like Sydney, who really chewed us up and virtually won the game through their ruck combination. Needs to step up to the next level. He is now 27 years old and next year has to be his year.

Darcy - as you say a hard one as age is now catching up to him and do we risk it and stay with him for next year?? I noticed on Friday he played a loose man in defence for awhile in the third quarter to try and stop the avalanche coming our way. Really not sure here.

Minson - Still only young, has played less than 50 games and will be vital in years to come.

Wight - Should we now start working on him as a potential future ruckman? He has the height and he is very mobile and Athletic?

Skipper - Although played well on Friday, but I fear he was playing for his future. I have never felt he was a ruckman, due to his height, but where else do you play him? I think he will be gone by the end of year.

LostDoggy
29-07-2007, 06:41 PM
Wight - Should we now start working on him as a potential future ruckman? He has the height and he is very mobile and Athletic?

If he continues to get pushed aside at contests he will never be a ruck nor a defensive key or a power marking forward.
This is the most disappointing aspect of his game. Its his 3rd year of senior football and he is still playing it like a 1st year rookie. Great to have his height but without much strength he won't go very far.

Bulldog Revolution
29-07-2007, 06:50 PM
Bloody good post, MM23.

But do we first need to state how we see say the next three years?

IMHO, this list not capable of being Top 4 material. Someone (That's Golden?) posted that there are too many similar players. I'd add that there are significant holes that this list can't address.

Dunno if the club can afford to do this, but IMHO we need to clear out the list and rebuild in the next couple of years. There could even be some trades eg Ray which cause some tears.

Whether by drafting or trading, we need some big bodied guys generally. We need guys whose Wisbey profiles bang on about intensity and courage, not speed.

I'm sure others here may disagree and claim that we're still a good chance in the next three years, and we only need to tinker with our list.

I disagree.

If bottoming out really garunteed us success then its could be reasonable option, but I just really dont believe that it is, and I dont believe there have been many teams that have really bottomed out and risen from the ashes.

If you look at the ladder this year Geelong never bottomed out, and West Coast didn't, they have had poor years, but they never had a fire sale and started again. You have to do everything you can to get talent on to your list and retain it. Hawthorns success is not on the back of the kids it drafted over the past 3 years, I mean some of them are contributing and doing well, but its as much Brown, Sewell, Mitchell, Crawford, Boyle, Bateman, Ladson etc who've all been there for a while.

For all Claytons faults as a recruiter he still has put loads of exceptional talent on the list - I see it as Eades job to mould the talent on the list. He has to work, and work, and work to make guys better tacklers, improve their pressure skills etc.

Any success we have will be based on our middle aged group of Gia, Murphy, Hahn, Boyd, Cross, McMahon, Morris, Hargraves and Harris, plus the slightly younger Cooney, Ray and Griffen - we need these guys to be the leaders of our team, and set the tone with the defensive minset required. Until they consistently do that we wont achieve team success.

So:

1. I dont think bottoming out is an option because it does not guaruntee us success, and I think we have already bottomed out under Rohde and our on the way back up.
2. Things can change quickly in footy, and whilst we have been exposed we still have a lot of talent to work with and develop

bornadog
30-07-2007, 05:53 PM
If he continues to get pushed aside at contests he will never be a ruck nor a defensive key or a power marking forward.
This is the most disappointing aspect of his game. Its his 3rd year of senior football and he is still playing it like a 1st year rookie. Great to have his height but without much strength he won't go very far.

Agree however, at age 22 and 200cm its expected. He will mature, put on muscle and be less lanky in the next few years. I feel he has potential.

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
30-07-2007, 06:55 PM
After last night I think Skipper deserves more a spot on the list than Street.
I know one swallow doesn't make a summer but Street hasn't performed that well all year.
Skipper looks bulkier and did a lot more in linking up than Street.
Maybe he knew he was on his chance but I would give him the rest of the year in the seniors and then reassess whether he deserves a spot on the list.

Agree. I liked what I saw from Skipper on Friday. For the first time since his 5 goal effort early last season, looked like he was not over awed and displayed alot of composure. I thought thing were looking grim for him.. but if he can continue to build on Friday's performance in the remaining weeks then I think he has a future at the Dogs next year and beyond.

The Coon Dog
30-07-2007, 08:11 PM
A few weeks back my son attended the 'Train With The Players Day' at Werribee.

The one thing that stood out for me was the role Skip played. Each activity was overseen by about 6 players. Skip appeared to be the leader of his group, addressing the children & running the activities. I felt that if a player knew he was on the way out then he wouldn't have taken on the role like Skip did that day.

It mightn't mean much, but it just stood out to me.

For what it's worth I think he offers us greater flexibility than Street, so I hope he grabs his opportunity & takes it. Was unfortunate when injured v WCE in a pre season clash. Set him back a bit.

Bulldog Revolution
31-07-2007, 04:26 PM
Great post Macca - the coaching staff will probably have done a similar process in house

I am going to comment on a few of them, where I have slightly different views or just have something to add



Addison - Has shown enough to warrant selection, and his aggression at the ball and contest has been very pleasing. His disposal and decision making let him down at times, but those are areas that the coaching staff can make improvements on. He is a part of our plan going forward and could become a 150+ game player for us.
.

I'm almost his biggest fan, but I've been a little disappointed with Addison, I dont think he has reached the heights of his Essendon round 22 performance in 2006, his decision making has been down, and he has seemed to be down on confidence. I would like to see him played in the starting centre square combination for Werribee whenever not playing for us.



Akermanis - Hasn't set the world on fire, but hasn't been as disappointing as some will suggest. His workrate, knowledge and experience are crucial and he'll be an important player for the next few years.
.

Aka for my money has been really good - his defensive skills and on field nous have been at a higher level than most of the squad all year, admittedly he struggled early with the game plan and his body but has been very good of late - there just isn't enough other players performing around him.



Baird - Has had a disappointing 2007, especially on the back of his impressive 2006. I still feel that Baird can offer something as a lead up forward, similar to the role that Hansen plays at WC. He's good on the lead and has good hands. He's been trialled in the backline a bit this season also, and if he can convince the coaching staff that his personal issues are behind him, and he's ready to have a big pre-season and big dip next year, I think he will figure in our plans. His recent form and getting back in the Werribee 1's team has been pleasing. Not too sure where his future lies, but one who I feel is worth persisting with.
.

Very disappointing - if Baird wasn't going to play AFL this year I think we all would have hoped for some dominant VFL form, which has not eventuated. He has had personal issues, but given he would probably be on a 2 year contract, and coming to the end of year 2, there has to be enormous doubt he will stay.



Boyd - Been one of our standout performers this year, and once West/Cross are back can probably slot back into a more negating role in which he has proven himself to be very successful in. Reasonably young and certainly a big player in us going forward.


Brilliant season from Boydy - his continued improvement is a credit to him and the coaching staff - works both ways. Has emerged as a genuine leader of the team and is clearly a beacon in a disappointing season.



Cooney - Has again struggled a bit with his consistency, but overall his year has been pleasing. He's an exciting, skillful goal kicking midfielder, so he certainly has all the attributes and ticks the boxes. His defensive efforts have improved his year, and if he continues to work hard will be one of the best players to put on a Dogs uniform. He can play forward too, and I wouldn't mind seeing him one out more often if he's struggling with a tag.


Given his OP issues I think its been a tantilising season from Adam - he has had some quiet games, some game busting patches, perhaps less than last year, but his defensive efforts have markedly improved on previous years. For a guy who has been tagged since his first AFL game he has seemingly attracted more attention this year than ever before. I dont think the OP issues have made this as easy to deal with, he has ran more in the second half of the year.



Cross - Another standout performer before injury. His work rate alone lifts our team, helps us create space and he's as hard as they come. His contested marking is also a feature of his game, as is his tackling and ability to win the ball in traffic and inside packs. A key to our future, no doubt.


Played his usual consistent football before injured. He isn't quick and he isn't a great kick but he works his tail off, and when you sit at the ground you really appreciated his 80 metre diagonal runs to receive the ball on half forward line. Its been a cruel blow to the side to have him injured. Without doubt an important leader in the team.