Nab Cup vs. North Melbourne/Geelong Review

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I was pretty pleased with what I saw in both games overall. Considering we had Cooney, Lake, Hall, Hargrave, Hudson and Murphy out - we put up a good effort to dismantle North Melbourne and push a practically full strength Geelong. I thought we handballed too much and it's a skill we need to improve, but for the first game of the year, the way we played/tried to play seemed reasonably good. A little disappointing that against Geelong, we fell away a little, and dropped off defensively completely. As always at this time of the year - plenty to work on, but much to take away from today's games.

* Libba was very impressive. I thought he and Wallis stepped up again today, but more so Libba with the way he attacked the ball and kept dishing out incredibly fast handballs. I thought he may struggle to crack games due to his size, but Libba proved today he could mix it with the bigger bodies no problem.

* Skinner did some nice things and looked far more comfortable out there than he did at the intra club. Moved really well, presented, and had some nice passes. Also made a few tackles which should have been rewarded. Good signs - he's not as far off as I thought he was.

* Veszpremi was quiet against Geelong but was damaging against North. Smart player who is clean by foot. Certainly got off to a good start, in terms of putting his best foot forward to play round 1.

* Sherman improved as both games wore on. Thought he made good decisions with the ball in hand, which is sometimes a weakness. Used the ball reasonably well, went in hard and ran the lines a few times.

* Djerrkura looked good, seems to be able to find the ball. Disposal and decision making needs to improve, but he's putting a case forward to play round 1. He was involved a fair bit in both games, put his head under the ball and did well.

* Panos impressed me. Lead up the ground well and took some nice marks. He used the ball well and looks much better than he did last year. Hopefully he can keep improving, as he's got some quality. I'd like to see him have a good year at Williamstown, and then be added to the senior list for 2012.

* Wood was very good minus some of his kicking. He's very strong and runs hard and fast. Great signs for the coming season, but as said, needs to tidy up his disposal to become a real weapon.

* Pretty disappointed with Howard and Gilbee. Thought both were average with and without the ball. Cross and Griffen were equally as bad. The latter moreso.

* Williams was very good in game one, but struggled in game two. Morris was beaten in game two. Boyd had the ball on a string, Higgins looked very sharp and was one of our best. Jones presented well and made some strong contests. Josh Hill was smart and pretty tidy with the ball. Markovic was patchy, did some pretty good things, but made some bad errors. Something to work with, though. Addison was very good minus one or two things.

I think we've got a strong list moving forward. The young players were really good today. There's going to be a lot of competition for spots - the most we've seen in some time IMO.

[Go_Dogs]

Thanks for the report TBB, great stuff.

How did the rucks stack up? And speaking of Stack, how did he look (from what I could gather from the radio) down back?

[LostDoggy]

Anyone think Markovic will play Round 1?

[The Coon Dog]

Anyone think Markovic will play Round 1?

I guess that all depends on the fitness of Brian Lake.

[G-Mo77]

I was actually pretty happy as well. It was always going to be tough to beat Geelong at home but it was even tougher when a close to full strength side ran out there.

I was actually really disappointed in Jones. Maybe I'm expecting too much from the kid to early. Just didn't look into it for mine. It seemed we focussed on the smaller guys up forward today, which is not a bad thing. We seemed to lose that last season.

Handballing as you mentioned was a little to much. It's hard to see what's going on TV though. It sounded like there was a lot of zoning going on so run and carry is the best way to beat it. There was a couple of passages that looked really good though and I think it will be one of our strengths this season.

The speed difference was very noticeable. I was also really impressed with our forward pressure. Those were 2 pretty big weaknesses last season and it seems to have improved which is great.

I thought Higgins was the stand out for the Dogs today. He looked like, well Shaun Higgins again. I think we all forget how good players are when they've come off an injury riddled season.

Wallis. GUN! Not much more to add. Future captain of this team. I don't have any doubts about that.

[LostDoggy]

I guess that all depends on the fitness of Brian Lake.

That's what i am saying.

On today's showing & pre season intra club etc.., would we play short in the backline, or show faith in Markovic?

[LostDoggy]

I thought Boumann had more potential than Markovic. Strange decision.

Did Ayce Cordy play or was he a sub that never got a run? Howard was very disappointing. I was expecting him to have a pretty good game and assert himself on the contest.

[G-Mo77]

I thought Boumann had more potential than Markovic. Strange decision.

Could have been a financial one.

[LostDoggy]

Also, did Tom Hill play today?

[AndrewP6]

Good win after a slow start vs Norf. It seemed many had the fumbles, maybe just early season rust. Competitive side of me was disappointed with the fade out in the Geelong game. Matched them well, plenty of work to come so that efforts are sustained. A few observations from my couch:

* Markovic I thought did pretty well overall. Made his share of errors, but was a good presence down back.
* Wallis I was impressed with, my first look at him competing in Dogs colours. Goes hard, moves well and finds plenty of ball. Terrific quick handball to Gia for a goal at one point. Good to see him revving a few up as they walked off. Libba did well, although I liked Wallis more. Libba did attack the ball well.
* DJ I thought looked alright, went hard and found a bit of the ball. Got caught too much for my liking, but that can improve.
*I liked Wood's movement and attack, as TBB said, his disposal needs work.
*Higgins looked terrific, IMO. His mobility and energy seems to have returned, hopefully his improvement continues.
* Williams looked more assured, to me. Competed well, used his body.
*Grant did a few good things, made good position. Very nearly fouled up a certain goal, but thankfully he managed to put it through. Needs a haircut and shave - badly. :)
*Griff looked every bit like it was the first game - only way is up!
* Umpires are still ordinary
*Dwayne Russell is a moron.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I thought Easton Wood showed today he may be a better player than Harbrow in the long run.

I was really impressed with his attack on the ball, his confidence, and his pace and evasive skills.

Add to that he's a much bigger body and stronger overhead than Harbrow.

If we can remember Harbrow's early years before he really took off I think Wood may be ahead of him.

[G-Mo77]

* Umpires are still ordinary
*Dwayne Russell is a moron.

The 2 things that upset me the most today. :)

[AndrewP6]

I thought Boumann had more potential than Markovic. Strange decision.

Did Ayce Cordy play or was he a sub that never got a run? Howard was very disappointing. I was expecting him to have a pretty good game and assert himself on the contest.

Ayce didn't get a run, Howard didn't do a great deal.

[dog town]

Just some stuff on a few individual players.

Griffen- Big call and I am not overly concerned because it is only nab cup but I think in a way he cost us the game today against Geelong. It has often frustrated me that a man of his ability doesn't take enough care with the ball and often passes or does the cute thing when he could simply just kick a goal. I want him be a little more selfish and just get the job done. Too often he goes for a tricky square up pass when he is in range or tries to dribble the ball through the goals instead of hammering it through post high. Its just something that has always annoyed me about his game. That being said I thought his actual endeavour and ability to find the ball were very good today. In that respect it was a good follow up to his immense finals series last year.

Djerruka- Was pretty good I thought. Put himself in and showed pretty good pace. He had a few ball handling errors but he has done enough so far to suggest he will give us another player to rotate through.

Libba- Easily the highlight of the day for me. I just thought he looked very much at home in the contest. Strong over the ball and very clean by hand. Has exceptional strength through the core and in his legs. Very early days but I liked what I saw today. Need to see some of other areas of his game now.

Panos- Looked ok coming up the ground a couple of times which was pleasing because I thought he had looked a bit one dimensional previously.

Vezpremi- Looked pretty dangerous in the air and finished well. Jury still out in some ways. North were that bad it was hard to get a gauge on some players.

Boyd, Picken, Gia and Higgins were all good in my opinion.

Addison- Did some very brave things and looked ok. Wouldn't be surprised if he has a good year.



Skinner-For those that havent seen the game he did some very nice side stepping as did Easton Wood. To me he has shown enough today to suggest he is a fair chance to play senior footy this season.

Grant- Looked a class above today in my opinion after an awful intra club. Looked dangerous every time the ball went near him.

Wood- Was very good defensively and broke the game open when he had the ball. Close to our best.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Thanks for reports TBB, A6, DT


I thought Boumann had more potential than Markovic. Strange decision.


Boumann was a far better athlete, but nowhere near the footballer that Markovic is. Markovic is a better mark, kick on both feet, handball, decision maker etc

[the banker]

Overall they looked good. Ball movement a couple of times was scintillating while at other times overuse and bad handball options set up teammates for a certain turnover.

* Williams looks more assued and dynamic
* Easton Wood, if he can continue developing, will be a star player
* Higgins only needs to stay fiit to be a prime mover in the team - looked very sharp
* Grant has quite a few tricks and will worry many sides - potentially a hard match up
* Both Young Libba and Wallis continue to impress
* Sherman should improve once embedded in the team , looked a little indecisive at times
* Jones hits the packs and moves quickly with the ball - doesn't procrastinate, but has quite a bit of development to do IMO
* Moles finds the ball better than many and can kick.
* Josh Hill a good ball user, and can play all over the field. Even had a good defensive moment. I like him for the sub.
* A bit worried about Boyds defensive nous.
* Obviously missed our key forward target.
* Forward tackling pressure was improved?
* Gilbee, Cross, Griffen, Ward all looked off the pace to me

The first game thought NM were very ordinary. Bottom four on that form.

[LostDoggy]

The positives:
- Williams at CHB. When Lakey comes back in, it will help him even moreso but he is looking so much more assured and is taking on the game abit more. He was beaten once by Hawkins which resulted in a goal, but overall it was great to see Williams playing well.
- Libba, geez he loves getting his hands on the ball and dishes it off under pressure very well.
- Wallis - will play senior footy this year. Will pick up the speed of the game and you can see him absorbing as much about the game from the seniors guys as he can.
- Skinner - exciting to watch.

The negatives:
- Umpiring was terrible.
- Griff / Gilbee were underdone and struggled.
- Howard - was beaten and missed targets. He has time and hopefully this type of experience will only help.

Overall - i dont mind losing this one and going about our preparations away from the limelight. Best to keep things low key and build up to Round 1.

[westbulldog]

Albeit watching the 2 games from afar on Fox I thought Djerruka and Howard were way out of their depth. On the plus side Higgins, Wood, Wallis, Liberatore and to a lesser degree Grant and Addison were very good. Wallis looks like he is a walk up start for Round 1.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Skinner, even though he didn't have a lot of possessions, already looks like he's got more to offer than Stack. History will show that we basically swapped Everitt for Vezsprimi and Skinner.
Could turn out very well for us.

[Mofra]

Cheers for the updates - for those of us who were only listening on radio, did either Minson or Roughead push a strong case for the no 2 ruck spot today?

[LostDoggy]

Albeit watching the 2 games from afar on Fox I thought Djerruka and Howard were way out of their depth.
Interested in your comment about Djerrkura because yours is the first negative post I have seen about him. I was pleased to hear he had played well ..... but you thought otherwise. What reasons did you think he was poor?

[LostDoggy]

Cheers for the updates - for those of us who were only listening on radio, did either Minson or Roughead push a strong case for the no 2 ruck spot today?

I listened to SEN Mofra .... but didnt get any indication on either Will or Roughie.

[LostDoggy]

Only really saw the highlights.
How long was Stack on Johnson for, who else played on him? Was he the difference?
If Stack is going to simple drop marks in the backline, he might playing Williamstown 2nds soon.

[AndrewP6]

Cheers for the updates - for those of us who were only listening on radio, did either Minson or Roughead push a strong case for the no 2 ruck spot today?

I thought Willlbur threw himself at the ball well, was a marking option upfront (not sure his marking issues are solved!). Roughy from memory kicked a goal.

[Rance Fan]

I watched it and also thought Djerrkura was only average. He got caught a few times and skills not as magical as i had hoped. I think he still needs time to learn our game style i guess, but i see him in the same bracket as Moles. A good player but not brilliant. Not sure he is in the top 22 but he will hopefully be there pushing and knocking at the door. There is a few pushing for the final spots which is good thou.
I wasnt overly impressed with Stack or Hill either. I had hoped that they may also be pushing for the similar opportunity.
Libba and Wallis are looking good!
As for the ruck Minson did a few nice things and Roughead kicked a goal. Both didnt seem to dominant and for me didnt have a great effect on the game.

As for positives i thought a number showed good signs - Higgins, Boyd and Wood my top 3.
Early days so i hope things continue to improve. Hope game plan improves and we dont leak quick goals in the season proper

[The Adelaide Connection]

Am pretty surprised more hasn't been said about Markovic who I (and the commentators) thought was very good. Didn't have bucketloads of possessions like Lake would, but his spoiling and tackling was excellent and when the ball did get in his hands he was generally able to get it to someone else pretty cleanly. A big tick IMO.

[Sedat]

Panos has obviously been flogged in the pre-season because there was no evidence of his fat arse anywhere to be seen.

Player highlight for mine was Jarrad Grant. Looked very dangerous in both games and will provide a massive handful for opposition coaches.

[LostDog]

Boydy proved he was the right choice to lead the dogs, so glad Gia didnt get the gig still wont go the hard ball

[LostDoggy]

Cheers for the updates - for those of us who were only listening on radio, did either Minson or Roughead push a strong case for the no 2 ruck spot today?

Saw the second game only. Didnt really see either them in the game.

[LostDoggy]

Wood, I thought was Griff a few times in the Geelong game. Dodging and weaving through traffic. And he never got pinged, whereas the readl Griff did hehe

[anfo27]

Skinner, even though he didn't have a lot of possessions, already looks like he's got more to offer than Stack. History will show that we basically swapped Everitt for Vezsprimi and Skinner.
Could turn out very well for us.

History will show that for the second year runnning the swans never ended up giving us that 2nd pick that we were all told we were getting in the deal so Skinner has nothing to do with that trade deal with the swans.

[The Pie Man]

We should've placed bets on whether Healy would refer to Mitch as Steve. Also hoping they pick up that DJ's name isn't pronounced Jakeera (kept thinking of Shakira every time he got the ball...wrong)

Veszpremi looked very similar to Moles with way he would kick (or more stab) in traffic, anyone else notice?

Good hitout, great to have footy back

[The Pie Man]

Boydy proved he was the right choice to lead the dogs, so glad Gia didnt get the gig still wont go the hard ball

Come on, I remember one moment today when he went in very hard to win the pill (can't remember what part of the game, just remember thinking 'good stuff Gia')

We're harsh on him, I don't get it

[divvydan]

I also remember Gia going back with the flight of the ball in a marking contest on the outer wing against Geelong, he has no issues whatsoever with courage which is what you're alluding to LostDog.

[LostDoggy]

We should've placed bets on whether Healy would refer to Mitch as Steve. Also hoping they pick up that DJ's name isn't pronounced Jakeera


Well, Healy is a bit dim, isn't he?
Where I was sitting, he came off from the ground to go up the steps, but couldn't unlatch the gate. So he climbed over it.
Johnno managed to perform the simple task of opening the gate, and pissed himself laughing at Healy all the way up the stairs.

I had a fun day, despite the result.
I though Higgins looked great, Gia was good.

Disappointing that neither Minson or Roughead dominated the ruck. Or anything for that matter. Neither were bad, but nor were they outstanding. I wanted to see a real effort from them! Bummer.

[Remi Moses]

My two cents
Thought the intensity of the second game was higher than the first!
Happy with young Wallis (brilliant in close)
Surprised with Markovic (looked more mobile than I thought)
Disappointed with Howard (barely touched it)
Pleased with Vaszpremi (few nice things)
Thought Djukerra was average
Panos looked okay,thought Wood was our best.
Reckon we look quicker than last season
Personally happy we'll now fly under the radar coming into the season
Hype move over to the 2011 Premiers elect Essendon

[Greystache]

I went today, combining both games I thought we had a quite a few that just went, not poor but not particularly good either. Noticable players for mine were-

Higgins- A class above everyone, easily the best against Norf, and good against Geelong

Grant- Was excellent, demands the ball on the lead more and it seems obvious he feels like he belongs out there. He also took a mark and kicked a goal from 50m after the siren that went through at half goal post height. Still too skinny to take pack marks, but has everything up up to the level now. Could be in for a big year.

Wood- Provided great run out of defence, quick and evasive, and strong at the contest. Still looks best when kicking long, needs to work on his disposal but looks an emerging star.

Markovic- Some very good spoils, good use of the ball at times, and marshalls the defence quite well, but gets exposed for pace by leading forwards and also with the ball in general play. My concern is when the pace of the game increases he won't be able to match it.

Jones- Competed in the air, but generally unsighted.

Panos- Lead up the ground, but again pretty much unsighted.

Vezpremi- Looked really dangerous, lead to some good spots, and burns sides with his kicking. Think he could be a chance for round 1.

Skinner- Very raw, but looks to have something.

Djerrkura- Out of his depth. Small, average skills, ordinary decision making, and generally lacking class. Not an AFL player judging by today.

Libba- Didn't play the first game, but some nice touches in the second. Certainly looks a good prospect.

Sherman- Some good runs but a little hit and miss, looked like it was early in the year for him.

Williams- Played a lot more attackingly than previously, pretty much like the intra-club match. I still have my heart in my mouth when Tommy takes the game on, but it looks clear that he's going to make that a focus this year.

Stack- Played half back, better suited to the forward line, so things don't look good for him.

Howard- Looks a long way off. He may be able to kick the ball long and flat, but where it's going to end up is anyone's guess.

Plenty of upside for us, plus a lot of quality to come back in, I think we're a better side the Geelong this year, and North are in a league below. I didn't think our forward line defensive pressure looks to have improved greatly, and disapointingly our midfield pressure hadn't improved at all. Hopefully we were just taking it easy for the NAB Cup.

On a positive note, North Melbourne look shithouse :D

[AndrewP6]

Djerrkura- Out of his depth. Small, average skills, ordinary decision making, and generally lacking class. Not an AFL player judging by today.


You're listing "small" as a criticism of his game? Libba Snr says hello.

[westbulldog]

I would be as pleased as anyone if Djerrkura has a great season. In my opinion he contributed very little and was beaten in most contests. Thanks for the inquisition :)

[AndrewP6]

I would be as pleased as anyone if Djerrkura has a great season. In my opinion he contributed very little and was beaten in most contests. Thanks for the inquisition :)

You probably didn't expect that. Then again, nobody expects the Spanish...oh never mind :)

[Greystache]

You're listing "small" as a criticism of his game? Libba Snr says hello.

Libba Snr played 15 years ago- "hello"

The point is if you're small you'd want to have a couple of oustanding attributes to overcome it, from what I can see Djerrkura doesn't.

[Ghost Dog]

Libba Snr played 15 years ago- "hello"

The point is if you're small you'd want to have a couple of oustanding attributes to overcome it, from what I can see Djerrkura doesn't.

I don't see how being small was different 15 years to now?

[Sedat]

Going on today, I'd put DJ in the "looks better than what he is" file. By that I mean he looks busy out on the ground and is clearly working hard but he doesn't really influence many of the contests he gets to. Plenty of hard work for negligable benefit to the team.

Vesz was the best of the new recruits by far today. Ran to dangerous areas and also linked up well when pushing further upfield.

[chef]

Biggest positive for me was no injuries.

[Mantis]

How long was Stack on Johnson for, who else played on him? Was he the difference?


Johnson played a fair bit in the midfield and was on Boyd for quite a bit of time.

Johnson was the difference.

[LostDoggy]

Thanks to all for the reports and comments - I wasn't able to watch or even listen on the radio :mad: It's all sounding very positive for 2011!

[SlimPickens]

This is what I’ve learnt from yesterday (watched both games on the telly).

Tom Liberatore- has the best hands for a rookie I have seen. His awareness on where his players are around him is a big positive.

Pat Vez- liked his strong lead out and goal. Will definitely be in contention for round 1 and should play.

Mitch Wallis- stripped the ball from an opponent and handball to Gia for an easy goal, made me jump off the couch.

Markovic- Was pretty good, if Lake is underdone have no issue with him possibly stepping up. Will be better suited on slower forwards like Drew Petrie.

Stack- Will get to know Point Gellibrand very well this year.

Djerrkura- went to the Nathan Eagleton School of ball handling, needs to marinate his hands in Grippo before every game.

Higgins- Looking very sharp.

Happy with how we played and not overly concerned with the result. Anyone know who and where we play next week? Hopefully not the back of Bourke!!

[Mantis]

I might as well have a go:

Higgins - Big positive, seemd to have his 'zip' back which allowed him to hit the ball at pace and accelerate away. His decision making was still questionable at times, but he looks set for a big year.

Grant - as with others I thought he was a big plus. His set shot kicking was ice like which is a big turnaround. He really dominated inferior opponents, but the test will be playing on guys who can play a bit.

New guys - all bar Howard were servicable and showed some good signs, I guess after another 2 or 3 games we will be able to draw better conclusions on where they are at for season 2011.

Ball use - Still poor, our field kicking was terrible - Cross, Boyd & Griffen all very poor in this department. Our kick to handball ratio against Geelong was 0.7, Geelong's was 1.3. At times our handball was good as we spread from the contest, but handballs to stationary players who are under pressure is not the answer.

Forward pressure - Still a massive concern.

[chef]

Only really saw the highlights.
How long was Stack on Johnson for, who else played on him? Was he the difference?
If Stack is going to simple drop marks in the backline, he might playing Williamstown 2nds soon.

Looked to me like Stokes spoiled him at the last second and then in the next motion bump into Morris who was Johnson's opponent allowing him a clean run at the crumbs and a snap goal.

[LostDoggy]

One thing to say:

(John Kennedy Snr undertones)

Easton would, would you?

[Dancin' Douggy]

History will show that for the second year runnning the swans never ended up giving us that 2nd pick that we were all told we were getting in the deal so Skinner has nothing to do with that trade deal with the swans.

Not according to the 2011 AFL Record season guide.

[LostDoggy]

The 2 things that upset me the most today. :)

Another thing, I think Gerard Healy could be classed as legally blind and may seriously need to consider giving someone he trusts Power of Attorney.

Some of his calls an plays and players leave me baffled, and it's not because they're insightful.

[LostDoggy]

Panos has obviously been flogged in the pre-season because there was no evidence of his fat arse anywhere to be seen.

Player highlight for mine was Jarrad Grant. Looked very dangerous in both games and will provide a massive handful for opposition coaches.

I've been lost with him in the intra club game and the NAB Cup until i heard the callers say his name. i don't know what his weight between start of 2010 and now was but he appears visually to have dropped a massive amount of weight.

He looked like a solid built player last year, maybe a little heavy, now he's built like Shaggy! :confused:

[ReLoad]

Very disappointed in the D-Jerks game. simply was not competitive, not from effort, but was just found lacking.

I was very impressed with Libba's quick hands and excellent decision making.

I am also more confident in Grants kicking style he seems to have worked hard on that in the summer.

Some definite highlights from the weekend, however our ability to close down a player, no matter how good they are is a concern. It cost us dearly in finals and cost us again on Sunday.

[Desipura]

Libba Snr played 15 years ago- "hello"

The point is if you're small you'd want to have a couple of oustanding attributes to overcome it, from what I can see Djerrkura doesn't.
I have heard those exact words somewhere before ;)

[Sedat]

Our kick to handball ratio against Geelong was 0.7, Geelong's was 1.3. At times our handball was good as we spread from the contest, but handballs to stationary players who are under pressure is not the answer.
Did you get the feeling that our players were instructed to handball at all costs? It appeared as though we experimenting with our playing style and handballed at every available opportunity come hell or high water, with a bigger goal in mind for when the season proper starts. It looked as though we were almost deliberately rushing at the defensive zone en masse.

[Ozza]

Happy enough that the guys looked fairly sharp at stages in what were two good hit outs.

Highlights as others have said were;

- Higgins' movement, looked sharp and clean.
- Wallis and Libba's hardness. Super competitive kids - its not outrageous to suggest they could both be in our best 22 by the end of the year.
- Easton Wood was very good.
- Vez and Sherman did enough to impress.
- Gia and Grant were sharp up forward - and busy in Baz's absence.

Without taking too much from what is only two short practice matches really, the less than impressive aspects were probably Brannan Stack overall, and Djerrkura's ball use/decision making.

Sounds harsh I know...but Stack is one we could have let go from the list.

Tommy Williams looks more confident - hope he carries that into Round 1 and beyond.

[The Coon Dog]

Sounds harsh I know...but Stack is one we could have let go from the list.

Except he has a contract.

[LostDoggy]

I went today, combining both games I thought we had a quite a few that just went, not poor but not particularly good either. Noticable players for mine were-

Higgins- A class above everyone, easily the best against Norf, and good against Geelong

Grant- Was excellent, demands the ball on the lead more and it seems obvious he feels like he belongs out there. He also took a mark and kicked a goal from 50m after the siren that went through at half goal post height. Still too skinny to take pack marks, but has everything up up to the level now. Could be in for a big year.

Wood- Provided great run out of defence, quick and evasive, and strong at the contest. Still looks best when kicking long, needs to work on his disposal but looks an emerging star.

Markovic- Some very good spoils, good use of the ball at times, and marshalls the defence quite well, but gets exposed for pace by leading forwards and also with the ball in general play. My concern is when the pace of the game increases he won't be able to match it.

Jones- Competed in the air, but generally unsighted.

Panos- Lead up the ground, but again pretty much unsighted.

Vezpremi- Looked really dangerous, lead to some good spots, and burns sides with his kicking. Think he could be a chance for round 1.

Skinner- Very raw, but looks to have something.

Djerrkura- Out of his depth. Small, average skills, ordinary decision making, and generally lacking class. Not an AFL player judging by today.

Libba- Didn't play the first game, but some nice touches in the second. Certainly looks a good prospect.

Sherman- Some good runs but a little hit and miss, looked like it was early in the year for him.

Williams- Played a lot more attackingly than previously, pretty much like the intra-club match. I still have my heart in my mouth when Tommy takes the game on, but it looks clear that he's going to make that a focus this year.

Stack- Played half back, better suited to the forward line, so things don't look good for him.

Howard- Looks a long way off. He may be able to kick the ball long and flat, but where it's going to end up is anyone's guess.

Plenty of upside for us, plus a lot of quality to come back in, I think we're a better side the Geelong this year, and North are in a league below. I didn't think our forward line defensive pressure looks to have improved greatly, and disapointingly our midfield pressure hadn't improved at all. Hopefully we were just taking it easy for the NAB Cup.

On a positive note, North Melbourne look shithouse :D

I pretty much agree with your summary there Greystache.

Higgins, Wood, Grant were great and V should be playing round 1. Stack, Howard and Djerk were a class below at least Djerk kept trying real hard but his efforts seemed to come to very little of substance.

Skinner was probably the favourite for the day in the lounge room, who knows what he will become.

Markovich seems ok as a depth player for Lake and Williams which is somewhat of a relief.

Will made a bad mistake or two but did some nice ruckwork on occasion, Roughy kicked a great goal but did little else of note. One of these guys really needs to stamp 2011 as their season.

Seem to remember Jones being a far better player than he showed yesterday.

Mitch and Libba showed exactly where they are at, all class just a little young. Superstars.

Ward and Picken are as hard as nails. Ward is class too, Picks wins the ball by putting himself in danger. Addison is up near these guys for guts.

Gia I thought was class but also played with guts and got his own ball.

All in all I was pretty happy with the hitout and seeing the new/younger players go at it. One criticism of the boys in general was the over abundance of hair. Boyd and Ward nead to go the shave while Wood and grant need to realise that they are on telly. ;)

[Desipura]

Guys I have not yet watched the game, lets not forget it was the equivalent to a 20/20 game. Lets get some perspective here. Last week everyone was saying how ordinary Vespa looked in the intra club game, yesterday they were saying how he looked good in the 1st game against North.

Real stuff is still some 6 weeks away.

[Ozza]

Except he has a contract.

Fair point.

[Mantis]

Did you get the feeling that our players were instructed to handball at all costs? It appeared as though we experimenting with our playing style and handballed at every available opportunity come hell or high water, with a bigger goal in mind for when the season proper starts. It looked as though we were almost deliberately rushing at the defensive zone en masse.

Having watched a few pre-season training sessions you could see from the drills being carried out that handballing through the zone is an area of focus. You could see when it worked yesterday that space was opened up due to the opposition moving in to close down the space, but at times we handballed to players who were either flat-footed or not expecting the ball which made for quite a few turnovers.

We obviously need to find a way to beat the other challengers as our record against them over the past 3 years speaks for itself, so I guess by experimenting with new ideas in these meaningless games might unearth a couple of strategies that will work in big games later in the season.

[G-Mo77]

Having watched a few pre-season training sessions you could see from the drills being carried out that handballing through the zone is an area of focus. You could see when it worked yesterday that space was opened up due to the opposition moving in to close down the space, but at times we handballed to players who were either flat-footed or not expecting the ball which made for quite a few turnovers.


That happens a lot and the decision making has to improve in that area. I never see the point in handballing to a ruckman standing still when your trying to move the ball forward quickly. For some reason our players seem drawn to it all the time. :confused:

[Sedat]

Having watched a few pre-season training sessions you could see from the drills being carried out that handballing through the zone is an area of focus. You could see when it worked yesterday that space was opened up due to the opposition moving in to close down the space, but at times we handballed to players who were either flat-footed or not expecting the ball which made for quite a few turnovers.
I also noticed the plentiful handballing to stationery target as well - it was almost as if we were deliberately handballing back into congestion and inviting trouble to see how our players and structures would cope with it. I'm more than happy to live with this in a NAB Cup match in February so long as there is a bigger picture in mind. Seing the stats from the games, it didn't surprise me in the slightest to see a 0.7 kick to handball ratio, which is about as handball-oriented as any team has ever played the game. In spite of our repeated turnovers by hand, we only got really opened up very late in the piece against Geelong.

The other thing I noticed with our handballing was that the player in front of the group had the ball and would almost always handball to a player slightly behind when confronted by the defensive wall - it was almost like watching Rubgy League and seeing players move the ball forward but with no forward movement by hand, instead choosing to run the ball forward in waves (or turn it over). I wonder if we are doing this to provide some cover on the defensive goal side of the cluster/congestion in case we do cough it is? Apart from one notable example in the Geelong game (can't remember who blazed away to 3 Geelong defenders in the first half), we tended not to bomb the ball into outnumbered positions inside forward 50 - kicking it to a 50-50 plenty of times but rarely when we were outnumbered. I for one would be delighted if we kept to this in the season proper, because I don't think I could handle another season seeing O'Brien/Shaw, Mackie/Enright/Milburn or Fisher/Gilbert/Goddard trampoline the ball out of our forward 50 under no defensive pressure whatsoever with monotinous regularity.

Normally my eyes glaze over in the early rounds of the NAB Cup but I found it very interesting to watch our structures and our ball movement. The Dogs v Cats game was certainly a cut above just about every other game played in the first round from an intensity perspective.

[mjp]

I thought we played pretty well against North and very well against Geelong. Some poor turnovers / decisions cost us a couple of goals in the first 35 minutes then we unravelled a bit at the end.

- Djerrkura puts in. But is a bit of a liability when he gains possession because he simply refuses to anything but run in a circle. Confuses his team-mates around the ball (and presumably down the ground)...just not a smart player.

- Sherman will have a day when he kicks 6 goals for us - but boy does he roll the dice. That critical centre stoppage where Selwood ran onto the ball with no dogs in front of him? Sherman was definitely the defensive sweeper but he just left his spot. As an aside, he is good when he has one thing to do, but give him a couple of options and he tends to choose none of them.

- Stack was Stack. Forward pocket, back pocket...put him wherever you like. It isn't the position he plays that has kept him out of the team.

- Veszpremi was OK. Looked better on the lead than as a crumber (to me) though and that is a bit of a worry. Leading players we have.

- First time I have seen Howard since tapes of his 18's performances in the SANFL. I was hoping he would have been much further along by now.

- I hope that isn't the continued decline of Lindsay Gilbee who seemed to have carried on last years form into the games.

[soupman]

My turn.

Djerrkurra will be a frustrating player if that performance is typical of him. He lived up to everything I have heard about him from Geelong supporters, in that while he is quick, aggressive and can find the ball, he tends to get it in situations where he can't use it, and often takes on one tackler too many. Everytime he got it he seemed to be defensive side of an opponent. He is quick and looks pretty strong, but instead of using his pace and strength to get past that player he tends to do a little circle waiting for support, and then when he realises there isn't any tries to break through the 3 opponenets now in the immediate vicinity. I think when he gets it he needs to just accelerate forward and try and beat his direct opponent. With his speed he could get past them, and then he'd have a bit of time facing our attacking direction to make the right decision and execute. He is possibly a candidate for a post eagleton scapegoat. There is stuff to work with, it's just he doesn't use his main attributes effectively.

Grant was good and exactly what we want of him. Dangerous on a lead, still using his pace and his goal kicking was good for the first hit out (bouncing on the run not so much). Hopefully he continues to grow this year.

Wallis wasn't terribly active but did enough to show that he will be a good player. The Gia goal he set up was a little bit Hahn like in making something out of nothing, and the best bit was the shove he gave the North bloke after Gia kicked the goal.

Higgins when fit is such a dangerous player. He looks faster and more switched on already. This could be a very good year for him. Possible top 5 B&F finish.

Gia was good. Looked to be playing more in the midfield in the second game but didn't impact it as much as in the first. For anyone questioning his commitment and what not, you are clearly still looking for a scapegoat.

Griffen is noticeably skinnier, he looked like Mcmahon at times on the TV. Yesterday he struggled to shrug tackles, so I hope this is just an aberration.

Jones is another to frustrate me. I continually hear about how he has been outmarking Hall at training, how he is dominating the match practice drills and that he is ready to take a big step forward. Much like last year he failed to impact the contest. There were times yesterday when he was too easily pushed off the contest, and other times where he should have marked the ball or at least brought it down with him. I think he is a good prospect, but atm none of his performances have shown anywhere near as much as you would hope. They've all shown that he could be a good player, not that he should.

Libba was good. very quick hands and found a lot of it. I thought his performance was better than Wallis'. Depsite looking like a shy 14 year old I think he could handle a fair few AFL games this year if needed.

Addison looked better. His disposal was good, he got a bit of the footy around the ground and I don't recall seeing him beaten in any contests. Could be a good year for him.

Skinner showed that he has a side step, overhead mark, left foot and pace in the chase to compete in the AFL. There was one time when he got the ball and me and my sister clapped in aniticiaption of something happening (it didn't). I think that he could be a very dangerous player if developed fully.

Wood was brilliant. Everytime it went into our backline I was hoping that Wood would be there. Barely lost a contest, love his push takcler away move and am really thinking that he may have a bigger Harbrow on our hands.

Howard was very dissapointing. Barely got it (I recall three kicks, one a kick out) and the two kicks in play were both poor. Also looks fairly slight. I realise he will take time but based on that showing I'm worried.

Veszpremi was dangerous i nthe first game as a Brad Johnson style lead up forward. Very thick player, but looked to have enough pace and could be dangerous.

Markovic looked alright. Was confident with him in the marking contests, but not so sure how he will go with leads. Surely if you are playing against him you would drop your tall quick forwrd to the goalsquare (Grant in our case) and bring the player he would play against a bit higher up the ground or even somewhere else. May end up being good on resting ruckmen though.

Panos showed that he has something to offer as a leading forward, and played higher than i expected. I'm not sure that he is that far off contributing somewhat.

[comrade]

I thought we played pretty well against North and very well against Geelong. Some poor turnovers / decisions cost us a couple of goals in the first 35 minutes then we unravelled a bit at the end.

mjp, what were your thoughts on the game plan?

[Greystache]

- I hope that isn't the continued decline of Lindsay Gilbee who seemed to have carried on last years form into the games.

I thought the same thing, I wasn't going to say anything because it's so early in the year, but I'm concerned about him being able to hold a position in our best 22 this year let alone be a strong contributor.

[Maddog37]

The main things I took out of it were;

Cross, Griff, Gilbee and to a lesser extent Boyd did not come to play.

We have potentially a massive amount of mid field rotations, per the Collingwood model. Cross, Boyd, Coons, Griff, Gia, Higgins, Wallis, Liber, Picken, Sherman, DJ, Ward. The only question is do they have enough polish?


Williams kicking looks like becoming a weapon from defence if he remains confident in himself.

Jones whilst quiet did bring the ball to ground and if he clunked a couple we would all be spanking off about him today.

For first gamers Wallis, Libber and Skinner looked great imo.

Stack is gone. Hahn is not.

Markovic reminds me of a Kepler Bradley type.

We did not miss Skinny.

[LostDoggy]

I might as well have a go:

Higgins - Big positive, seemd to have his 'zip' back which allowed him to hit the ball at pace and accelerate away. His decision making was still questionable at times, but he looks set for a big year.

Grant - as with others I thought he was a big plus. His set shot kicking was ice like which is a big turnaround. He really dominated inferior opponents, but the test will be playing on guys who can play a bit.

New guys - all bar Howard were servicable and showed some good signs, I guess after another 2 or 3 games we will be able to draw better conclusions on where they are at for season 2011.

Ball use - Still poor, our field kicking was terrible - Cross, Boyd & Griffen all very poor in this department. Our kick to handball ratio against Geelong was 0.7, Geelong's was 1.3. At times our handball was good as we spread from the contest, but handballs to stationary players who are under pressure is not the answer.

Forward pressure - Still a massive concern.


A little harsh Mantis I thought first up from a spell in the wind we were actually preety good. Your correct with Higgins, we have missed him bigtime having him fit this year is massive.

Grant dominated get him indoors and add Hall and we will have most teams easily covered, he just looks a difficult match up and having Barry next to him will just make it an even harder one.

Was happy with Vez, showed enough for me that he will slot in nicely. Sherman looked to me that he was trying to make friends for some reason a couple of times I thought he should've just took off instead of looking to set up someone.

I thought Will was a little better and Roughead may be the third choice Ruckman. Thankgod Huddo is still playing.

Just imagine a midfield Cooney, Griffen, Wallis and Libba in a couple of years WOW.

With Cross, Boyd and Griff just cruising, and knowing the players that are to come back in, I watched the Geelong game with a permanent smile on my face. Just knowing that this year I have no doubt that we have them covered and even with that small glimpse, am eagerly awaiting the opportunity to bend the Saints straight over! :)

[bornadog]

I went today, combining both games I thought we had a quite a few that just went, not poor but not particularly good either. Noticable players for mine were-

Higgins- A class above everyone, easily the best against Norf, and good against Geelong

Grant- Was excellent, demands the ball on the lead more and it seems obvious he feels like he belongs out there. He also took a mark and kicked a goal from 50m after the siren that went through at half goal post height. Still too skinny to take pack marks, but has everything up up to the level now. Could be in for a big year.

Wood- Provided great run out of defence, quick and evasive, and strong at the contest. Still looks best when kicking long, needs to work on his disposal but looks an emerging star.

Markovic- Some very good spoils, good use of the ball at times, and marshalls the defence quite well, but gets exposed for pace by leading forwards and also with the ball in general play. My concern is when the pace of the game increases he won't be able to match it.

Jones- Competed in the air, but generally unsighted.

Panos- Lead up the ground, but again pretty much unsighted.

Vezpremi- Looked really dangerous, lead to some good spots, and burns sides with his kicking. Think he could be a chance for round 1.

Skinner- Very raw, but looks to have something.

Djerrkura- Out of his depth. Small, average skills, ordinary decision making, and generally lacking class. Not an AFL player judging by today.

Libba- Didn't play the first game, but some nice touches in the second. Certainly looks a good prospect.

Sherman- Some good runs but a little hit and miss, looked like it was early in the year for him.

Williams- Played a lot more attackingly than previously, pretty much like the intra-club match. I still have my heart in my mouth when Tommy takes the game on, but it looks clear that he's going to make that a focus this year.

Stack- Played half back, better suited to the forward line, so things don't look good for him.

Howard- Looks a long way off. He may be able to kick the ball long and flat, but where it's going to end up is anyone's guess.

Plenty of upside for us, plus a lot of quality to come back in, I think we're a better side the Geelong this year, and North are in a league below. I didn't think our forward line defensive pressure looks to have improved greatly, and disapointingly our midfield pressure hadn't improved at all. Hopefully we were just taking it easy for the NAB Cup.

On a positive note, North Melbourne look shithouse :D

What about the rucks?


one thing I learnt about the games from yesterday, don't listen to SEN

[LostDoggy]

Boydy proved he was the right choice to lead the dogs, so glad Gia didnt get the gig still wont go the hard ball

Total horseshit. Saw him take on three players alone and dive at it in the forward pocket in the first quarter against Geelong, and was generally at the ball all day. Good showing from Gia.

Also: Why do we insist he should be throwing himself all over the ball at every single contest, only to have one of our highest skilled run-out-of-the-pack-and-drill-it-forward player sitting on the deck having handballed to somebody else?


Come on, I remember one moment today when he went in very hard to win the pill (can't remember what part of the game, just remember thinking 'good stuff Gia')

We're harsh on him, I don't get it

He's the quintessential scapegoat for the ill-informed. Why? He's a pretty boy. So is Dale Thomas. Gia will have his day.


I also remember Gia going back with the flight of the ball in a marking contest on the outer wing against Geelong, he has no issues whatsoever with courage which is what you're alluding to LostDog.


Biggest positive for me was no injuries.

Amen. Kept shouting out, “Careful, Tommy, please!”


I pretty much agree with your summary there Greystache.

Higgins, Wood, Grant were great and V should be playing round 1. Stack, Howard and Djerk were a class below at least Djerk kept trying real hard but his efforts seemed to come to very little of substance.

Skinner was probably the favourite for the day in the lounge room, who knows what he will become.

Markovich seems ok as a depth player for Lake and Williams which is somewhat of a relief.

Will made a bad mistake or two but did some nice ruckwork on occasion, Roughy kicked a great goal but did little else of note. One of these guys really needs to stamp 2011 as their season.

Seem to remember Jones being a far better player than he showed yesterday.

Mitch and Libba showed exactly where they are at, all class just a little young. Superstars.

Ward and Picken are as hard as nails. Ward is class too, Picks wins the ball by putting himself in danger. Addison is up near these guys for guts.

Gia I thought was class but also played with guts and got his own ball.

All in all I was pretty happy with the hitout and seeing the new/younger players go at it. One criticism of the boys in general was the over abundance of hair. Boyd and Ward nead to go the shave while Wood and grant need to realise that they are on telly. ;)

All true. I think Picken is almost a sadomasochist. He seems to love getting a football boot to the head. The more they kick, punch and crush him to the deck, the better he plays. He loves the pain.

[LostDoggy]

Might add: Had my own little contest with a couple of feral Geelong slappers in the Gary Ablett Terrace. Don't know what this silly chickie was thinking, but she's standing on the seat, I'm still towering over her by a good couple of inches (I'm 6'4") and she still decided to punch me in the head (Disclaimer: I did provoke her. Mentioned Mr Ablett and it went from there). Lucky for her I think men who hit women are the lowest form of life on the planet, but she couldn't have known that. Silly girl. Did it right in front of two cops. Geelong fans != brains trust.

[Cyberdoggie]

Ball use - Still poor, our field kicking was terrible - Cross, Boyd & Griffen all very poor in this department. Our kick to handball ratio against Geelong was 0.7, Geelong's was 1.3. At times our handball was good as we spread from the contest, but handballs to stationary players who are under pressure is not the answer.



Lot's of overuse of handballs, especially to guys standing there with their backs turned to goals.

I guess this does get a lot better as we play more practice games but it's a bad habit.

I know Gary Ayres always used to say to his players "handball to get out of trouble not to get in it!"

Tough to know what to do these days when essentially everyone plays in the middle of the ground and you can't bomb it long or high for fear of turning it over.

[Mofra]

one thing I learnt about the games from yesterday, don't listen to SEN
I actually started listening to MMM then changed the station. Rex Hunt is unlistenable - had no idea what was going on in play, and he back-announced the goals.

Re: interesting dicsussion on the handballing - was it more noticeable into the wind or was it our gameplan over the course of both games? Hard to tell without the vision.

[Mantis]

A little harsh Mantis I thought first up from a spell in the wind we were actually preety good.


We train on one of the windiest grounds in Victoria so I can't see that as an excuse, perhaps the stands made the conditions 'flukey', but I was disappointed with our kicking in general and especially the field kicking of the 3 players mentioned... Cross only had 3 kicks with 2 of these being absolute clangers. His left footed kick into the forward-line was dead-set embarrassing.

Wood also undid some fine work with some shoddy kicking.


What about the rucks?



Will seemed to play more in game 1, Roughy more in game 2... Don't have any stats to back this up, just a feeling I had.

Both dominated the tap-outs, but Will was much more effective around the ground. Both offered little up forward.

[Dazza]

Thought Grants kicking for goal had markedly improved on last year. I remember him struggling for distance a few times last season but he kicked through the ball quite well yesterday and made the distance easily from 50 out.

[bulldogsman]

Griffen is noticeably skinnier, he looked like Mcmahon at times on the TV. Yesterday he struggled to shrug tackles, so I hope this is just an aberration.

Jones is another to frustrate me. I continually hear about how he has been outmarking Hall at training, how he is dominating the match practice drills and that he is ready to take a big step forward. Much like last year he failed to impact the contest. There were times yesterday when he was too easily pushed off the contest, and other times where he should have marked the ball or at least brought it down with him. I think he is a good prospect, but atm none of his performances have shown anywhere near as much as you would hope. They've all shown that he could be a good player, not that he should.

Howard was very dissapointing. Barely got it (I recall three kicks, one a kick out) and the two kicks in play were both poor. Also looks fairly slight. I realise he will take time but based on that showing I'm worried.

These are the three I was very dissapointed in.

Griffen looked like a first year player, couldn't shrug off his usual tackles and his skills were quite poor. I expected him to get bigger rather then skinnier.

Jones I think needs confidence more then anything, he's got good hands but just hasn't shown it at this level yet. He needs one big pack mark, then he's right I reckon.

Howard just isn't up to it at the moment and it's time for me to change my avatar.

I liked Wood, Grant, Vespa, Panos, Libba and Wallis game of the younger guys. Still undecided about Djerrkura. The older boys in Higgins, Boyd, Hahn, Moles, Williams and Gia looked good. Markovic was also okay.

A little surprised Schofield and Hooper didn't play.

[LostDoggy]

There appears to be some divided opinion on here regarding Djerrkura but interested to read the coaches comments from the club website about his inclusion in the team.

Djerrkura played his first two games for the Bulldogs on Sunday during round one of the NAB Cup at Skilled Stadium.

The forward showed some positive signs against North Melbourne in the Bulldogs' first match, adding some pace to their forward line with eight touches and two tackles. Shaun Higgins also had his tackle count up in both games.

"Obviously it's an area we need to improve," Eade said.

"We need to get better at that and obviously some of our older players weren't good at that in the past and Nathan can add that - but he certainly can play on ball as well."

"Him and Jones have got some pace and Grant's got some pace and I thought Higgins tackled well today so it's a pleasing sign as well."

[Mantis]

A little surprised Schofield and Hooper didn't play.

Who would you have liked these 2 play ahead of?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Just imagine a midfield Cooney, Griffen, Wallis and Libba in a couple of years WOW.



And Higgins and Ward

[LostDoggy]

A little surprised Schofield and Hooper didn't play.

I'm sure we'll see them in the next 3 weeks.

[LostDoggy]

And Higgins and Ward

Not allowing for players to be poached by the northern invaders.

[mjp]

mjp, what were your thoughts on the game plan?

Seemed to have a bit of a focus on more numbers around the ball. Our spread from the contest was pretty good (some terrific passages of flowing handball to running players in both games) and when we handballed to stationery options it seemed to me that was the only choice available.

I am still concerned that we continue to kick the ball to a contested situation 50-80m from goal. I just don't see the point of this - it really is right in the middle of a turnover zone (particularly when the ball is in the corridor).

Why do our players keep doing this?

[bulldogsman]

Who would you have liked these 2 play ahead of?

Schofield - Stack

Hooper - Probably no one now that I think about it.

[Mantis]

Schofield - Stack



Stack is playing for his footy career at our club in 2011... He deserves first crack at it.

[bulldogsman]

Stack is playing for his footy career at our club in 2011... He deserves first crack at it.

Fair enough. I just love the look of him from the very limited times I've seen him. By reports he's also been good in training, just thought he deserved a run.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agreed with the conerns on our disposal/game plan. The long bombing into the forward 50 is very annoying to watch. It tends to get worse against better opposition too. Griffen does this far too often - a player of his skill should be hitting targets more than he does. Cross electing to use his left foot is idiocy too - he should know his limitations.

Surprised more hasn't been made of Panos' game. A few said he was quiet - I disagree. Think he showed quite a bit out there. Great hands, moving much better, looks for shorter options to pass the ball to, and is a nice kick. I have big hopes for Panos after watching that - he really should be doing all he can to have a good season at Williamstown to secure a senior spot in 2012.

Some are a little harsh on DJ, but I agree he tends to find the ball and then confuse his team mates by doing circles and waiting for support to handball to. To be fair, Geelong do this a lot - they keep handballing in circles until they find a running option. Perhaps he's still adjusting to the different game plans. Either way - I think it's extremely unfair to write the guy off. He's strong, quick and can find the ball - that's a start. He may need to play exclusively forward, or he may simply need the confidence to do what Wood (for example) was doing, and that's using your pace and strenth to advantage.

Also thought Hill showed some positive signs despite the little he got of it, but again, he didn't have a lot of opportunity. Thought he showed some class and composure when he had the ball, in situations where a lot of other players either bombed away or fumbled.

Libba really was impressive though, the more I think about it. He's going to be a great player in 2-3 years time.

[Mantis]

Also thought Hill showed some positive signs despite the little he got of it, but again, he didn't have a lot of opportunity. Thought he showed some class and composure when he had the ball, in situations where a lot of other players either bombed away or fumbled.



I was pretty disappointed in the way we used Hill. In the scratch matches I had seen (I didn't see the intra-club) I had thought that he had been pretty good playing up on a wing and had hoped he would spend some time in this position yesterday.

While he had some nice touches he gets lazy up forward, looking for the easy one over the back all the time and needs to be played up the ground.

[Greystache]

What about the rucks?


one thing I learnt about the games from yesterday, don't listen to SEN

Neither particularly effective, both probably beaten on the day. Minson the better of the two in around the ground. Roughy did take a mark inside 50 and kick a goal.

[Sedat]

Surprised more hasn't been made of Panos' game. A few said he was quiet - I disagree. Think he showed quite a bit out there. Great hands, moving much better, looks for shorter options to pass the ball to, and is a nice kick. I have big hopes for Panos after watching that - he really should be doing all he can to have a good season at Williamstown to secure a senior spot in 2012.
I was being a little tongue in cheek with my previous comment about Panos, but I see his significant trimming down as a massive tick for his desire and hunger to want to make it as an AFL footballer. If he was a one-trick pony who was one-paced, unfit and carrying some extra pud last year, what we saw of him yesterday was anything but. Running hard up to the wings and presenting, and showing good enough pace off the mark (whilst not being Usain Bolt) says to me that Panos is doing everything he can to get better and become a multi-dimensional key forward. Jarrad Grant took 3 pre-seasons for his body and endurance to catch up with his talent, and Panos has already shown marked improvement since he came to the club, which is all you can expect for a rookie in his 2nd year at the club. I hope he dominates at VFL level and commands to place on our main list in 2012.

[Pedro Sanchez]

One point I haven’t read was Howard backing back into an oncoming pack right on half time – i think it was the North game... Ballsy effort I thought.

Otherwise he was pretty quiet but it’s his first game and maybe nerves got the better of him.

Skinner looks exciting and Liber-achie and Wallis are classy young players.

As for the 3 recycled players, well its easy to see why they’re recycled... they all showed a bit but will have to pull their fingers out to make a real and sustained impact over the season.

Wood will be a star – he seems quicker and stronger than everyone else. Between him, Picken and Addison, we’re getting some decent strength back in the side.

[EasternWest]

Stack is playing for his footy career at our club in 2011... He deserves first crack at it.

I can't agree with this. Stack has had years and game exposure to take advantage of the opportunities he "deserves". If his future rests on a single NAB cup game, then it's his history of previous inadequate performances that has led him to that point, not his lack of opportunity.

If Schofield is physically up to it, I'd much rather see him and his bit of mongrel get a go. I for one have seen enough of Stack.

I get where you're coming from, I'm just not sure the words "deserve" and Stack go together when it come to opportunity.

[Maddog37]

Reid has to come in too at some stage hopefully. Some serious grunt in the team if Ward, Reid, Picken and Addison are all fit and playing well.

[jazzadogs]

I was really pleased with the hitout, acknowledging that there should be a lift in decision making and skills by the time the real season starts.

I thought Libba was more impressive than Wallis today, possibly because I had higher expectations for W. Had super clean hands, didn't shirk a contest and got a fair bit of it. Having said that, Wallis still played well.

Veszpremi was pleasing, and again this is probably because my expectations were low. Seemed to work hard and got a couple of goals (didn't do much vs Geelong), but I think a couple of goals is a good result.

Boyd's first quarter against North, where he got 15 touches, was not nearly as impressive as it sounds and I wasn't overly impressed with him, Cross or Griffen (like everyone else on here by the looks of things).

Gia and Higgins were damaging, Ward and Picken did their bit.

Djerkurra got around the ball a lot but didn't do much, and Sherman played as I remember him playing with the Lions...running hard but not thinking everything through so much.

Roughy and Minson were disappointing, Roughy was beaten in the ruck by Majak Daw but I think that was just because Daw could jump so high. Neither did much around the ground, and I would be concerned if they had to face Sandilands, Jolly, Mumford etc. without Hudson to help.

One thing that we've done for a long time which annoys me is almost always taking a mark then handballing it straight away. I understand the rationale of keeping the ball moving, but both the marking player and the running player need to have better knowledge of their surroundings and communicate more. This also happens in general play, but I think it's a bigger issue in this instance because the player who marked it has time to think.

Finally, I hate Foxtel commentary. A petition to get Hahn back in the side? Steve Wallis? Shakira? Mentioning Boyd's 15 touches ten times, without any mention of efficiency?

[LostDoggy]

i wasn't that happy with Stack. Had the obvious dropped mark and missed quite a few tackles. Didn't look to offer much and i don't expect him to play another H&A game without injuries.

Jones was a bit disappointing, had some chances but just couldn't bring in any marks. An early one against the Kangas, a CHF should be taking every day of the week.

The ruckman were quite, nothing really to talk about either way and neither did that much to elevate above the other (actually Roughy did kick a nice goal from about 50 out, but Mino was probably slightly better around)

Would have liked to see Hoops play, did he play in the NAB cup last season of does he have 1 prelim final and nothing else under his belt? strange

I don't see Marko as much more than a depth player, but he's a pretty good one to have incase Lake isn't ready, Williams on the other hand, other than 1 mistake against Hawkins looked good. Has worked on his kicking aswell.

Wood, had one kick where he basically put the ball OotF from the center of the ground, but other than a some kicking errors was spectacular. A lot of run and broke a lot of tackles. looks completely different with long hair. Would have to been close to BoG in both games.

Panos - loved the pick last year, getting the AA FF in the rookie draft, not the biggest build player but he looked a good rookie. led well got a couple of marks, however his goal kicking i'm not so sure. Had a set-shot from about 50 and barley looked at the goals before passing laterally, missed a second and passed a third off to Grant (can't really fault him for the last as it lead to a easier goal). I think he wants to play as a key forward he needs to take those chances.

Howard- another disappointment. I would have been happy if he wasn't up to the speed yet but could atleast kick well. His kicking was offtarget almost every time, looked lost and small. Not good signs, but still early days.

Skinner - Definitely wasn't a no-look kick, but he was more advanced than i expected. i don't expect a massive contribution this season, but with his athleticism and pressure he could be something special. Set up 2 goals i believe.

Boyd - look, i may get attack for this, but when he had 15 disposals in the first 20minutes, it looked like he was trying to do too much again. His usage wasn't great and he turned the ball over a few times. I would rather he got less of those handballs received, and got back to the contested ball he used to win. After that first half though he did get better and finished with a good game against Geelong.

Griff- it's all already been said. What was going on?

Djerrkura - i was pretty happy with him. Wasn't expecting a superstar, but he has potential and he definitely works hard.

Grant - Very good, looked quick and dangerous, with Hall back in the team, he becomes a very nice second option. While not a lot bigger, he will be better this year

Higgins - was BoG in the first game, up there again in the second. Looked like what everyone was hoping for last season, extremely clean, took a couple nice marks up forward and is a great weapon to have.

Vespremi - he showed some good play up forward. had a nice passage when he got a nice handball through some tight congestion and should have set up a goal that someone else missed. chance for round 1.

Lib- i've seen these 2 play quite regularly over the last couple years, and is exactly what i expected from them. Seems able to win the contested ball over and over again and get out a quick handball amazingly well against any level of competition. He won't do anything amazing in Willy to demand getting picked (however he can kick goals if given the chance) but his level of play won't really drop between the two levels.

Wallis - again, gets a lot of the ball and is just smart with it. While not being amazingly fast he had some nice run and carry. Going to be nice to have these two together for years to come

agreed about the commentary - how many times can you call him Steve? Skinner's 'no look' kick? and how many times can you really call a round 1 nab cup match a 'grand final'? once is bad enough, but i swear he said it about 10 times

[chef]

[QUOTE=shifty;200404]i wasn't that happy with Stack. Had the obvious dropped mark and missed quite a few tackles. Didn't look to offer much and i don't expect him to play another H&A game without injuries.
[QUOTE]

The ball was spoiled by Stokes IMO.

[Sedat]

Wood, had one kick where he basically put the ball OotF from the center of the ground, but other than a some kicking errors was spectacular. A lot of run and broke a lot of tackles. looks completely different with long hair. Would have to been close to BoG in both games.
I thought he was the mirror image of Jeff Buckley with his new locks. Someone should send that suggestion to Separate at Birth in the Sunday Age.

Panos - loved the pick last year, getting the AA FF in the rookie draft, not the biggest build player but he looked a good rookie. led well got a couple of marks, however his goal kicking i'm not so sure. Had a set-shot from about 50 and barley looked at the goals before passing laterally, missed a second and passed a third off to Grant (can't really fault him for the last as it lead to a easier goal). I think he wants to play as a key forward he needs to take those chances.
By all accounts, Panos has always had an eye like a dead fish when it comes to goal kicking and has one of the purest techniques going around.

[chef]

I thought he was a mirror image of Jeff Buckley with the new locks. Someone should send that suggestion to Separate at Birth in the Sunday Age.

He looks like James Franco to me.

[Doggy]

One point I haven’t read was Howard backing back into an oncoming pack right on half time – i think it was the North game... Ballsy effort I thought.

Otherwise he was pretty quiet but it’s his first game and maybe nerves got the better of him.

Skinner looks exciting and Liber-achie and Wallis are classy young players.

As for the 3 recycled players, well its easy to see why they’re recycled... they all showed a bit but will have to pull their fingers out to make a real and sustained impact over the season.

Wood will be a star – he seems quicker and stronger than everyone else. Between him, Picken and Addison, we’re getting some decent strength back in the side.

Liber-archie. I like it.

[LostDoggy]

He looks like James Franco to me.

I thought he looked a lot like Ryan Griffen. :)

[soupman]

I thought he looked a lot like Ryan Griffen. :)

Me too. I thought he looked more like Griffen than Griffen did. Griffen looked like McMahon on the TV.

(Three Griffen's in 5 words is a pretty good effort imo)

[LostDoggy]

Me too. I thought he looked more like Griffen than Griffen did. Griffen looked like McMahon on the TV.

(Three Griffen's in 5 words is a pretty good effort imo)

And not one Griffin amongst them!! :D

[Pedro Sanchez]

Pity I spelt without an 'r'...

But yeah, you're on the money.

[Pedro Sanchez]

Liber-archie. I like it.

see the previous quote...

[LostDoggy]

We train on one of the windiest grounds in Victoria so I can't see that as an excuse, perhaps the stands made the conditions 'flukey', but I was disappointed with our kicking in general and especially the field kicking of the 3 players mentioned... Cross only had 3 kicks with 2 of these being absolute clangers. His left footed kick into the forward-line was dead-set embarrassing.Wood also undid some fine work with some shoddy kicking.
Will seemed to play more in game 1, Roughy more in game 2... Don't have any stats to back this up, just a feeling I had.

Both dominated the tap-outs, but Will was much more effective around the ground. Both offered little up forward.

Yea well Crossy should just stick to handballing anyway, and the speed that Wood runs we gota expect a couple of clangers hese still only 21 I think. Overall I thought the signs were great, as long as we don't continue to bomb it in I'll be happy.

[LostDoggy]

I was pretty disappointed in the way we used Hill. In the scratch matches I had seen (I didn't see the intra-club) I had thought that he had been pretty good playing up on a wing and had hoped he would spend some time in this position yesterday.

While he had some nice touches he gets lazy up forward, looking for the easy one over the back all the time and needs to be played up the ground.

Thats the problem with Sticky Hill , he is an enigma , he has his own position of High Centre Wing Forward , he always has that look on his face " Should I be higher up the the ground , maybe closer to the centre, or I could lead for the ball out to the wing, no, I should be more forward"

I do like the lad , great " sticky " hands, reliable kick over 40m , needs some work on handballs under pressure , little bit of pace , good leap but what you do with him ? At his best he is one the games best High Centre Wing Forward's , probably third on the list behind Buddy F , but when he is low on confidence he seems to chase the ball rather than get in a good position and work off his opponent


.

[LostDoggy]

[QUOTE=shifty;200404]i wasn't that happy with Stack. Had the obvious dropped mark and missed quite a few tackles. Didn't look to offer much and i don't expect him to play another H&A game without injuries.
[QUOTE]

The ball was spoiled by Stokes IMO.

Very valid point Chef.

Unfortunately Stack appears to be in the gun with many supporters though. I hope he can actually make a few posters change their opinions this season as there seems to be some magic there.

[LostDoggy]

Unfortunately Stack appears to be in the gun with many supporters though. I hope he can actually make a few posters change their opinions this season as there seems to be some magic there.

I think its justified why he is in the gun. He is lucky to still be on the list.
I doubt anyone here won't he happy if he proves us wrong.

[AndrewP6]

Stack is gone. Hahn is not.


He only plays if someone's on the LTI list, doesn't he?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Yea well Crossy should just stick to handballing anyway, and the speed that Wood runs we gota expect a couple of clangers hese still only 21 I think. Overall I thought the signs were great, as long as we don't continue to bomb it in I'll be happy.

Harbrow run just as hard, was a much better user of the ball yet when he did a clanger he got attacked on here.

Reeks of 20 game rule.

[Mantis]

Unfortunately Stack appears to be in the gun with many supporters though. I hope he can actually make a few posters change their opinions this season as there seems to be some magic there.

Stack dropped a mark that regardless of the spoil should have been taken.... From the spillage Geelong kicked a goal.

He also missed 2 tackles late in the game in separate pieces of play, goals were also kicked as play continued.

I am a fan of Stack, but he can't keep making like errors when he is hanging on by a thread.

[LostDoggy]

Harbrow run just as hard, was a much better user of the ball yet when he did a clanger he got attacked on here.

Reeks of 20 game rule.

Also the Now he is gone, he was/is crap rule.

[Maddog37]

He also got beaten in the air a lot and was weak in one on ones. This a strength of woods.

I did like harbrow but he is now a traitor.;)

[Before I Die]

Boydy proved he was the right choice to lead the dogs, so glad Gia didnt get the gig still wont go the hard ball

I thought Boyd played well, but the last 2 goals to Johnson which sealed the game came when his direct opponent was Boyd. Perhaps this should have been addressed by the coaching staff re match-ups, but Boydy's inability to run back hard freed up Johnson in the forward 50, and all he needs is a sniff.

Re Gia, I thought he was very good and and I saw nothing to question his toughness, quite the opposite.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Harbrow run just as hard, was a much better user of the ball yet when he did a clanger he got attacked on here.

Reeks of 20 game rule.

Maybe, but Wood has a bigger upside than Harbrow. He could be a player that will push into the midfield later down the track.

Harbrow did have better skills though.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The more I think about it, Addison could be the perfect sub player. Obviously it'll change from week to week, but I suspect Dylan will be used regularly in this role. He had a great finals series last year, and has looked pretty good thus far in pre-season. Thought he was one of our better players yesterday - terrific mark surrounded by three KPP's yesterday. Love that he keeps the ball in front of him even under pressure too - he's not easy to knock off the ball and usually keeps his fest. His decision making has improved.

A player that can pinch hit down back, in the midfield and play as a defensive forward sounds like a good sub.

[bulldogsman]

Maybe, but Wood has a bigger upside than Harbrow. He could be a player that will push into the midfield later down the track.

Harbrow did have better skills though.

But Wood is much better defensively.


The more I think about it, Addison could be the perfect sub player. Obviously it'll change from week to week, but I suspect Dylan will be used regularly in this role. He had a great finals series last year, and has looked pretty good thus far in pre-season. Thought he was one of our better players yesterday - terrific mark surrounded by three KPP's yesterday. Love that he keeps the ball in front of him even under pressure too - he's not easy to knock off the ball and usually keeps his fest. His decision making has improved.

A player that can pinch hit down back, in the midfield and play as a defensive forward sounds like a good sub.

Agreed, I really like his game and he could be used in a number of roles.

[Go_Dogs]

A player that can pinch hit down back, in the midfield and play as a defensive forward sounds like a good sub.

Whilst the flexibility is probably good from an injury back up perspective, Addison seems to be travelling pretty well and certainly finished last year well - could be the kind of hard working guy you want out there for the whole game.

At this stage, perhaps Moles or DJ for me. I guess we'll learn more over the next few weeks.

[ledge]

Do you have to name the sub or can it be any off the bench?
Shame a player who is good enough to get picked but doesnt get a run in VFL or AFL or can he play VFL if he doesnt come on,of course this is if timeline is available.
Wouldnt want to be sub player 2 games in a row, then you havent played for 3 weeks!

[jazzadogs]

Do you have to name the sub or can it be any off the bench?
Shame a player who is good enough to get picked but doesnt get a run in VFL or AFL or can he play VFL if he doesnt come on,of course this is if timeline is available.
Wouldnt want to be sub player 2 games in a row, then you havent played for 3 weeks!
Sub doesn't have to be for an injury. I would think it would be a significant mistake if a team elected to not use the sub at some point.

I can't imagine them just using the same sub every week, especially with a younger player. An older player could probably do it, in an attempt to manage their minutes.

Oh and they do have to elect the sub. 21 players plus an elected sub who wears the bib.

[Mofra]

But Wood is much better defensively.
Bingo - watching him do well against Stevie J last year convinced he is (defensively) more versatile than Harbrow, and he does play tall for his height.

Harbrow did spray them alot last year but he was quiet a reliable kick the year before. I doubt Wood will ever manage to mimic Harbrow's evasiveness/sidestep, but Wood is also more likely to break tackles - he's much more of a "straight ahead" style player.

[Desipura]

I finally got to watch the replay last night. I must have been watching a different game as I thought Djerkurra was always in the play provided some link up play, laid some tackles, sure he got caught holding the ball once but overall I was happy with his performance.

Lets be honest, he is not going to be a Griffen or Cooney, but he will add midfield depth and much needed pace, he laid a few tackles on the weekend but they did not stick.

Vespa is not a goalsneak more of a lead up player but knows where the ball is going to go, is a good reader of the play. Pretty much a replacement for Johhno.

Wallis was busy in the first game, did not get much of it, but when he did was not overrawed even though it was only a NAB cup game.

Libba did alot of the inside work, did not get many uncontested possessions, so most of his posessions were hardly noticeable. Another not to be overrawed.

Addison was very clean with his marking and general disposal (especially on one occasion after a kickout where he took a mark against taller opponents (with the help of his teammates). The slower pace of the game would have assisted in his decision making.

Grant was very good, should have kicked 2 more goals.

Higgins looks alot fitter than this time last year. At the start of last season I thought he was a little too heavy (perhaps went too hard on the weights)

Jones was often against 2-3 oppoenents, Roughy needs to step up and be a presence in the forward line as Huddo and Minno are not capable of becoming that extra goalkicking forward.

Panos looks like becoming a future Stephen Tiller by not really having a position to play. I would have thought without Hall at full forward, Panos should have been played out of the square. The guy is a very good kick for goal, a natural forward in that he is a lead and mark type, lets not try and make him something he never will be.

Wood's pace is electrifying, I like his "take them on approach", needs to keep working on his kicking or more to the point slowing down before he kicks.

Markovic did well in the first game, the tempo picked up in the 2nd game and he was found out on a few occassions against Hawkins, I saw him directing traffic down there which was good to see.

I thought the 2 teams we selected on the weekend exposed a few things which we already know.

If Lake is injured for any length of time, we do not have the depth to cover him.

We do not have a goalsneak that played on the weekend, I hope Dalhaus gets an opportunity this weekend. We really a deficient in this area.

[Mantis]

Panos looks like becoming a future Stephen Tiller by not really having a position to play. I would have thought without Hall at full forward, Panos should have been played out of the square. The guy is a very good kick for goal, a natural forward in that he is a lead and mark type, lets not try and make him something he never will be.



The concern on him being pigeon holed as a FF is that he lacks acceleration meaning he would struggle to get that all important seperation from AFL quality FB's. It's thought that an increase in mobility will help play more up the field as his ball skills are actually quite good.

One would think that if he is as good a FF as described he wouldn't have lasted until the 3rd of the rookie draft.

[Desipura]

The concern on him being pigeon holed as a FF is that he lacks acceleration meaning he would struggle to get that all important seperation from AFL quality FB's. It's thought that an increase in mobility will help play more up the field as his ball skills are actually quite good.

One would think that if he is as good a FF as described he wouldn't have lasted until the 3rd of the rookie draft.
Im all for improving his mobility, I just do not think he will be anything but a forward. I saw him at half back in a few passages of play, dont know whether he followed his opponent (hard to tell watching it on tv as opposed to being there).
Why cant we improve his mobility and play him full forward?
He has lost a hell of alot of weight, the guy knows he must deliver or he may not be around for too much longer.

[Dazza]

I actually thought Panos wasn't too bad. Provided a link up forward between 60-70 out.

[Dazza]

Does anyone think Moles/Addison could be used up forward? Either as a defensive forward or just playing the small forward role. Both are pretty handy around the goals.

[Desipura]

Does anyone think Moles/Addison could be used up forward? Either as a defensive forward or just playing the small forward role. Both are pretty handy around the goals.

I think Moles could play a small forward role, Addison has played as a defensive forward, in the final against St Kilda he did it well.

[LostDoggy]

For all the previous doom and gloom about Markovic I thought he was quite good for us in both games.

[Mantis]

Im all for improving his mobility, I just do not think he will be anything but a forward. I saw him at half back in a few passages of play, dont know whether he followed his opponent (hard to tell watching it on tv as opposed to being there).
Why cant we improve his mobility and play him full forward?
He has lost a hell of alot of weight, the guy knows he must deliver or he may not be around for too much longer.

Improving his mobility won't help too much with his lack of pace (well it might) which is why it's seen best to develop him in other roles than just a FF.

[SlimPickens]

For all the previous doom and gloom about Markovic I thought he was quite good for us in both games.

I agree Chops, considering our first 3 games are Ess, GC and Bris. I think Markovic could be an option if Lake is not 100% come round 1. Still think he is better suited to a slower forward such as Petrie or a Mitch Clarke.

[stefoid]

So with the encouragement of Williams and Wood to run the ball out at every opportunity, and being relatively handball happy, I suppose the emphasis is play on at all costs, right? Make any kind of zone pretty much irrelevant simply by taking it on at such speed that it doesnt have a chance to form.


More pace and forward pressure, thats a no brainer.

any other tweaks from last year?

[Mantis]

So with the encouragement of Williams and Wood to run the ball out at every opportunity, and being relatively handball happy, I suppose the emphasis is play on at all costs, right? Make any kind of zone pretty much irrelevant simply by taking it on at such speed that it doesnt have a chance to form.



It was, but a couple of times we played on without being aware of what was on further afield and the resultant kick went to heavily out-numbered contests.

It's all good & well to try and move the ball on, but we must do with some 'smarts'.

[the banker]

Did Panos show a flash of Daniel Bradshaw on Sunday?

[GVGjr]

For all the previous doom and gloom about Markovic I thought he was quite good for us in both games.

There is no question that he has ability and good size and strength but there is a lot of key forwards that he just couldn't play on because he doesn't have the right sort of pace.

I agree with you though that he looked OK on the weekend after I thought was a disappointing outing in the intra club game. Lets see how he goes against the Lions on the weekend.

[LostDoggy]

There is no question that he has ability and good size and strength but there is a lot of key forwards that he just couldn't play on because he doesn't have the right sort of pace.

I agree with you though that he looked OK on the weekend after I thought was a disappointing outing in the intra club game. Lets see how he goes against the Lions on the weekend.

Not sure about him being disappointing at the intra club. He was playing on the best tall FF in the comp. It was a good learning experience.

[GVGjr]

Not sure about him being disappointing at the intra club. He was playing on the best tall FF in the comp. It was a good learning experience.

I suppose my view is that Markovic should match up better against the likes of Hall than say a Franklin and just didn't provide enough good contests against Hall.

I wonder if he could be used in a 5 to 7 minutes a quarter back-up ruckman role on occasions?

[Ghost Dog]

I finally got to watch the replay last night. I must have been watching a different game as I thought Djerkurra was always in the play provided some link up play, laid some tackles, sure he got caught holding the ball once but overall I was happy with his performance.



Nice write up. Cheers.

[chef]

I suppose my view is that Markovic should match up better against the likes of Hall than say a Franklin and just didn't provide enough good contests against Hall.

I wonder if he could be used in a 5 to 7 minutes a quarter back-up ruckman role on occasions?

Not sure I agree. Markovic being slow off the mark stands no chance against a great leading forward like Hall, who is still pretty quick.

He should be better suited against the slower forwards, like a Hawkins I guess.

[GVGjr]

Not sure I agree. Markovic being slow off the mark stands no chance against a great leading forward like Hall, who is still pretty quick.

He should be better suited against the slower forwards, like a Hawkins I guess.

I probably should have been a bit clearer. Given that he has seen a lot of Hall, in an intra club type game I think he should have been able to match up better. Thought he was OK on the weekend though.

[Maddog37]

Knowing how someone plays and being able to stop them doing it are two different things.

He has neat skills, is a good mark, stays in the contest well and reads the play ok. There are positives to offset his negatives but it will depend on the opposition week by week. He certainly looked better than I expected on the weekend.

[boydogs]

Hall knows Markovic as much as Markovic knows Hall.

Most weeks there will be a slower tall or resting ruck for Markovic to play against. Kosi, Hawkins, Dawes, Hale from some of the top sides.

[Desipura]

Hall knows Markovic as much as Markovic knows Hall.

Most weeks there will be a slower tall or resting ruck for Markovic to play against. Kosi, Hawkins, Dawes, Hale from some of the top sides.

Yes that is true however if Markovic plays on the above, you rob the team of providing any run against the abovementioned. Sure he may break even or even beat these type of opponents however a Williams could potentially not only beat his opponent, he could also provide alot of rebound.

[FrediKanoute]

Managed to see both games and thought it was a typical first round NAB Cup hit out. Skills were rusty and established players tended to cruise through the match whilst the kids bust their guts to try to impress. Given the type of match I don't think you can read too much into how guys went. You would hope that those who didn't play well will get a chance later in the comp. Of those the following caught my eye:

Grant - superstar in the making. If he stays fit, keeps his ego in check then his great form of last year should continue;

Higgo - just how good he is and just how much he means to the side was on display on the weekend. He stays fit and we are a 4 or 5 goal better side.

Panos - first time I've seen him and from what I saw I was impressed. Led well, marked well and generally used the ball ok. Had limited opportunities, but I like what I saw.

Skinner - has the potential to be a gun. Quick, tall and super athletic. Just needs to learn to do the basics well.

DK - reckon he copped a little bit of stick from a few people. First competitive hitout and he did ok. Got a bit of the ball and used it ok. I think he'll improve and add to our side.

Wood - star. He will be the pick of the guys from hisn draft (grant aside). Reckon if I were GWS he would be on my list!

Vez - thought he was good. Moved well, kicked well, marked well. Doesn't get much of the ball, but makes his possessions count.

[comrade]

Wood - star. He will be the pick of the guys from hisn draft (grant aside). Reckon if I were GWS he would be on my list!


Better than Ward?

[LostDoggy]

Most interesting thing to come out of the comments for me in a list management sense is that Markovic is not going to be hopeless at AFL level (which he was never going to be anyway considering his VFL form last year which was very good).. my only concern was that it didn't seem that the match committee had any faith in him, but if he's done well (which he did from all reports), then he becomes a very important part of our depth. No one expects him to come in and be Lakey, just to be able to do a stopgap job.

Also interesting that some are proposing him as part-time ruck relief, which pushes him into the category of 'utility player' -- how does Lucas compare to Leigh Brown, who would be his closest match in terms of a 'utility'? Brown doesn't have the greatest pace or skills, and certainly wouldn't be as smart a defender as Markovic, but became a very important cog for the Pies last year just because he was such an awkward customer in many positions (too big/strong etc. especially late in games) and he worked hard on his kicking for goal.

[Mofra]

Also interesting that some are proposing him as part-time ruck relief, which pushes him into the category of 'utility player' -- how does Lucas compare to Leigh Brown, who would be his closest match in terms of a 'utility'?
I'd guess that Leigh Brown with years of experience at AFL level is way ahead of Markovic at the moment.
I'd suggest most sides will use a pinch hit ruckman that plays forward rather than one that plays back. with that in mind, Roughy is both a better forward and ruckman than Markovic, as is Minson.

[bornadog]

Lets face it, this is NAB cup, or practise match time. Marcovic is a below average player from what I have seen of him. I wouldn't take any notice of his or any other players performance in the preseason comp.

[Mantis]

Lets face it, this is NAB cup, or practise match time. Marcovic is a below average player from what I have seen of him. I wouldn't take any notice of his or any other players performance in the preseason comp.

That's an extremely simplistic way to look at things.... and I can't agree at all.

[bulldogsman]

I'd guess that Leigh Brown with years of experience at AFL level is way ahead of Markovic at the moment.
I'd suggest most sides will use a pinch hit ruckman that plays forward rather than one that plays back. with that in mind, Roughy is both a better forward and ruckman than Markovic, as is Minson.

Have you seen Markovic play forward? He was drafted as a forward.

[LostDoggy]

Managed to see both games and thought it was a typical first round NAB Cup hit out. Skills were rusty and established players tended to cruise through the match whilst the kids bust their guts to try to impress. Given the type of match I don't think you can read too much into how guys went. You would hope that those who didn't play well will get a chance later in the comp. Of those the following caught my eye:

Grant - superstar in the making. If he stays fit, keeps his ego in check then his great form of last year should continue;

Higgo - just how good he is and just how much he means to the side was on display on the weekend. He stays fit and we are a 4 or 5 goal better side.

Panos - first time I've seen him and from what I saw I was impressed. Led well, marked well and generally used the ball ok. Had limited opportunities, but I like what I saw.

Skinner - has the potential to be a gun. Quick, tall and super athletic. Just needs to learn to do the basics well.

DK - reckon he copped a little bit of stick from a few people. First competitive hitout and he did ok. Got a bit of the ball and used it ok. I think he'll improve and add to our side.
Wood - star. He will be the pick of the guys from hisn draft (grant aside). Reckon if I were GWS he would be on my list!

Vez - thought he was good. Moved well, kicked well, marked well. Doesn't get much of the ball, but makes his possessions count.

Agree - I watched the game on TV and thought he was good and managed to have the intensity for afl perhaps without the polish of an A-grader (at this stage). Again it is first round of nab cup and a bit more confidence can fix this. Let's face it he is unlikely to be a Joel Selwood or Geelong would not have let him go. I notice he was playing a run-with role on Bartel for a bit - is this what he is being groomed for? Couldn't tell if he was doing this all game - if so he seemed to get a lot of the ball going the other way which is a good indicator

[soupman]

Lets face it, this is NAB cup, or practise match time. Marcovic is a below average player from what I have seen of him. I wouldn't take any notice of his or any other players performance in the preseason comp.

Completely disagree. This is the closest thing to an indication of a players ability to perform at AFL level that you can get short of playing in the AFL. I agree that a good performance in the NAB cup may not translate to the proper thing, but it is good enough to give an indication of a players ability to compete at htis level.


As for the comments on Djerrkurra coming off as harsh, I'm not sure people on here are criticising him outright as a poor player, I think people are more critical of the tend he showed on the weekend of not looking to use the footy when he got it. Instead he seemed to run in circles with it until support came or he got tackled. That's Geelong's gameplan, not ours, and he will be better when he stops doing this.

[Mofra]

Have you seen Markovic play forward? He was drafted as a forward.
He doesn't play forward, even at VFL level.

Are you sure he was drafted to us as a forward (forgetting his Hawks/Box Hill stint)?

[ledge]

We have recruited a few forwards and turned them into back man, Lake and Tiller being two, maybe even Harbrow.
Chris Grant was an example of a forward going back then forward again.

Eade I believe likes to put forwards in the backline to learn the defensive side, problem is if they blossom up back then he has a decision to make.
Aslo depends on whether you are short on that defensive position on your list.

[Mofra]

We have recruited a few forwards and turned them into back man, Lake and Tiller being two, maybe even Harbrow.
Chris Grant was an example of a forward going back then forward again.

Eade I believe likes to put forwards in the backline to learn the defensive side, problem is if they blossom up back then he has a decision to make.
Aslo depends on whether you are short on that defensive position on your list.
Jarrad Grant and Liam Jones seem to have played forward their entire time on our list.

Lake, Tiller and Harbrow all have their own stories for going back - Tiller was a tweener, Lake doesn't lead and Callan's bravery/stupidity gave Harbrow a chance to go from mediocre small forward to excellent rebounder.

[Maddog37]

Hard to tell in different jumpers but markovic looks a lot leaner this year.

[ledge]

Depends what the coach sees in a player and where he will get most out of them.
Exactly with Harbrow as my point started as a forward tried down back and blossomed.

[westdog54]

I was pretty disappointed in the way we used Hill. In the scratch matches I had seen (I didn't see the intra-club) I had thought that he had been pretty good playing up on a wing and had hoped he would spend some time in this position yesterday.

While he had some nice touches he gets lazy up forward, looking for the easy one over the back all the time and needs to be played up the ground.

It staggers me that Hill doesn't play on a wing more often.

I still remember one of his first few games against StKilda a couple of years ago where he went head to head with Nick Dal Santo. Dal showed him no respect whatsoever and he probably played one of his best games for the club. He's at his best when he has to do some work to get a touch.

[comrade]

It staggers me that Hill doesn't play on a wing more often.

I still remember one of his first few games against StKilda a couple of years ago where he went head to head with Nick Dal Santo. Dal showed him no respect whatsoever and he probably played one of his best games for the club. He's at his best when he has to do some work to get a touch.

Geez, that was an awesome game. We got belted in the first quarter, made our run in the second quarter and cruised home after half time.

You're spot on - Hill was great that night.

[bulldogsman]

Are you sure he was drafted to us as a forward (forgetting his Hawks/Box Hill stint)?

Sorry he was drafted to us as a key back, I meant when he was first drafted a fair few had a good wrap of him as a forward. That might not mean much, but all I'm asking is how do you know Roughead is a better forward then Markovic.

[LostDoggy]

Who was Geelong missing. I thought it was:
Ling
Corey
Blake
Mooney

Anyone else. Missing

[chef]

Who was Geelong missing. I thought it was:
Ling
Corey
Blake
Mooney

Anyone else. Missing

Scarlet.

[LostDoggy]

Scarlet.
Ling
Corey
Blake
Mooney
Scarlet
Chapman

With those guys to come in for Geelong they are still a very strong side and as much as people on the board are saying that they stacked the side they still had some best 22 out like ourselves.

[Doggy]

Ling
Corey
Blake
Mooney
Scarlet
Chapman

With those guys to come in for Geelong they are still a very strong side and as much as people on the board are saying that they stacked the side they still had some best 22 out like ourselves.

and Pods

[ledge]

I tend to think Ling is past it now.
Any young player would make up for Ling, not experience but pace.
A bit like Johnno last year.

[Bulldog Joe]

He doesn't play forward, even at VFL level.

Are you sure he was drafted to us as a forward (forgetting his Hawks/Box Hill stint)?

Markovic did go forward in a VFL game I attended last year (I think against Werribee) and acquitted himself well in a HUGE come from behind victory.

[Sedat]

Yes that is true however if Markovic plays on the above, you rob the team of providing any run against the abovementioned. Sure he may break even or even beat these type of opponents however a Williams could potentially not only beat his opponent, he could also provide alot of rebound.
I tend to agree but under those circumstances, Williams could conceivably take the Lake quarterback role back leaving Markovic to focus on a purely negating role. It's always dangerous to go by pre-season form, but Markovic would not embarrass himself if he had to make the step up to AFL level.

[boydogs]

Yes that is true however if Markovic plays on the above, you rob the team of providing any run against the abovementioned. Sure he may break even or even beat these type of opponents however a Williams could potentially not only beat his opponent, he could also provide alot of rebound.

It's good to be able to say that about Williams now. Boy it has been a long road.

I think everyone agrees you only look at Markovic if Lake, Williams or Morris are out. Cloke, Dawes and Brown or Jolly for instance could stretch us a little, as could Franklin, Roughead & Hale, or Riewoldt, Kosi & Gardiner. We may still go for the Lindsay Gilbee on the resting ruck setup, but I think we have another option now if we feel we need to be more accountable.

[Greystache]

It's good to be able to say that about Williams now. Boy it has been a long road.

I think everyone agrees you only look at Markovic if Lake, Williams or Morris are out. Cloke, Dawes and Brown or Jolly for instance could stretch us a little, as could Franklin, Roughead & Hale, or Riewoldt, Kosi & Gardiner. We may still go for the Lindsay Gilbee on the resting ruck setup, but I think we have another option now if we feel we need to be more accountable.

I think we might see Easton Wood playing that role in future.

[FrediKanoute]

The concern on him being pigeon holed as a FF is that he lacks acceleration meaning he would struggle to get that all important seperation from AFL quality FB's. It's thought that an increase in mobility will help play more up the field as his ball skills are actually quite good.

One would think that if he is as good a FF as described he wouldn't have lasted until the 3rd of the rookie draft.

Wasn't that a criticism often levelled at Pod's? From what I saw, working on his acceleration is what I would be doing, becuase he has the size to hold down a FF position. He has a solid core, is a good height, has good hands and importantly has a great kick.

[FrediKanoute]

Better than Ward?

For mine, he'd be a better get than Ward. Ward will be a star no doubt and I think will become one of the elite on ballers, but Wood has that spark about him that makes people excited.

If I was in charge of a new team and wanted to attract supporters I'd be going for a dashing runner like Wood.

[Mantis]

Wasn't that a criticism often levelled at Pod's? From what I saw, working on his acceleration is what I would be doing, becuase he has the size to hold down a FF position. He has a solid core, is a good height, has good hands and importantly has a great kick.

The criticism I continually heard on Pods was that he lacked ground skills and mobility.

[LostDoggy]

Geez, that was an awesome game. We got belted in the first quarter, made our run in the second quarter and cruised home after half time.

You're spot on - Hill was great that night.

Top night, Had the luxury of sitting behind a Saints supporter and her boyfriend was a Pies supporter! :) Not sure but was that the last time we beat them?

[comrade]

Top night, Had the luxury of sitting behind a Saints supporter and her boyfriend was a Pies supporter! :) Not sure but was that the last time we beat them?

We beat them later that year, as well. Haven't beat the pricks since though.

[LostDoggy]

The criticism I continually heard on Pods was that he lacked ground skills and mobility.

Ditto. The criticism is not wrong, mind you: in games where his sticky hands and kicking are 'on', the goals he kicks compensate for his weaknesses well enough, but when his hands or kicking are just a bit off, he's pretty one-dimensional and can quickly become a non-factor, as happened quite a few times last year.