Round #3 Match Committee

[GVGjr]

If you were on the Match Committee who would the likely ins and outs for the game against the Gold Coast Suns?

[GVGjr]

It's going to be hard to drop players for next weeks game but Lake rob ably needs to be played.

[comrade]

Markovic an unlucky out for Lake.

I think Stack has to keep playing but Gilbee might get a run.

Our midfield is still one paced but we look much better with Sherman running around.

[LostDoggy]

If Lake and Gilbee are brought in , Lake to CHF , Jones to the bench , Gilbee as the Sub . Markovic on form deserves to keep his spot ,Lake at CHF gives us a strong marking target and gives him a chance to get some more match fitness , Gilbee as the Sub also eases him into the game, Gilbee to Sub for Sherman at half time, Libba was outstanding and keeps his spot, DJ could be swapped with Wallis to give him a run

.

[Hotdog60]

Interesting the way the match committee will go, 2 trains of thought. Do you give some of the older players a early rest or do you go for the big win.

I think you can't take the GC lightly as they do have some good players in their side, Will had a good game for Willy do we just give Ben a rest for the long haul and maybe Barry.

FB: Stack, Lake, Morris.
HB: Murphy, Williams, Picken.
C: Sherman, Boyd, Cross.
HF: Higgins, Jones, Hill.
FF: Grant, Roughead, Giansiracusa.
FOLL: Minson, Cooney, Griffen.
INT:Ward, Djerkurra, Liberatore, Gilbee

Marovic if Lake needs more time

GC has a big guy in Dixon 200cm at FF and a giant in Smith 205cm and quality in the poached stars from other clubs.

[Mofra]

Howard was named as one of Willy's best - I would be tempted to give him a run.
I'd try and find a spot for Lake; no games and Collingwood straight after the bye wouldn't be an ideal intro to seasion 2011.

[mjp]

If Lake and Gilbee are brought in , Lake to CHF , Jones to the bench , Gilbee as the Sub . Markovic on form deserves to keep his spot ,Lake at CHF gives us a strong marking target and gives him a chance to get some more match fitness , Gilbee as the Sub also eases him into the game, Gilbee to Sub for Sherman at half time, Libba was outstanding and keeps his spot, DJ could be swapped with Wallis to give him a run

.

So on the bench to start we have Jones and Roughead? Which gives us one runner for rotations? That isn't going to work.

If you want to play Lake CHF and keep Markovic at FB AND keep playing Roughead, Jones has to go out. Otherwise, Markovic goes out and Lake goes in.

Markovic has shown he is capable of providing cover for Lake and Williams - that is his role on the list. Given the other two are both right, he should go out and our 'preferred' key back setup should resume.

[azabob]

Markovic an unlucky out for Lake.

I think Stack has to keep playing but Gilbee might get a run.

Our midfield is still one paced but we look much better with Sherman running around.

Is Stack clean enough with his ball handling in the open and in traffic?

[lemmon]

Ideally both Lake and Gilbee should have a run so Id be leaving out the unlucky duo Markovic and Stack, wouldn't mind resting Hudson and giving Minson a run in the ones, could probably do the same with Hall but honestly I want to see the carnage hes going to cause next week, if Thornton and Waite provided that big a challenge, Hall will absolutely rag-doll a few. We could go even further and give guys like Wallis and Howard a run but I dont want to waste this opportunity for what could be a massive percentage boost so I'd be leaving it pretty full strength, especially with the bye coming up.

[mjp]

For everyone wanting to rest Hudson, how much rest does he need.

We have a bye after this week. You want him to play against Collingwood having not played for 3 weeks?

[azabob]

Djerkurra has been the sub two weeks in a row. Very limited game time today does he get dropped back to Williamstown or play a full game next week at AFL level?

[comrade]

Djerkurra's chasing and pressure acts were good when he came on. Got a bit of it too. I don't want to take pace out of the side so I think he he should stay in.

Sherman definitely plays a full game. After hearing he was a nancy boy, I was impressed with his attack at the ball.

I'm not sure why Gilbee comes straight in for Stack. He needs to earn a spot. If he blitzed down at Werribee last night, fine, bring him in. If not, give him another week in the magoos.

[EasternWest]

Sherman definitely plays a full game. After hearing he was a nancy boy, I was impressed with his attack at the ball.

I'm not sure why Gilbee comes straight in for Stack. He needs to earn a spot. If he blitzed down at Werribee last night, fine, bring him in. If not, give him another week in the magoos.

Yep, agree with this. Sherman showed a lot more grunt than I thought he had in him.

If Stack goes out for Gilbee, he could consider himsely unlucky. I think if Gilbee's fit, he does get first crack at it. I don't necessarily think that's the way it should be, but it's the way we've historically been.

[jazzadogs]

Yep, agree with this. Sherman showed a lot more grunt than I thought he had in him.

If Stack goes out for Gilbee, he could consider himsely unlucky. I think if Gilbee's fit, he does get first crack at it. I don't necessarily think that's the way it should be, but it's the way we've historically been.
Wasn't overly impressed with Djerkurra's skills today, but his pressure is enough to keep him in the side. Having said that, wouldn't be upset if he got dropped.

Markovic definitely out for Lake. No point giving him another game at Williamstown.

Happy for either Stack or Gilbee to play, I presume the MC will chuck Gilbs straight in.

I haven't actually read anything about Hall yet...was he subbed due to injury? Even if he wasn't, I think using the sub to get rid of a tall for a small is a good way to use it.

[EasternWest]

I haven't actually read anything about Hall yet...was he subbed due to injury? Even if he wasn't, I think using the sub to get rid of a tall for a small is a good way to use it.

Pretty sure they just put him on ice. No point risking him when the game is over.

DJ chased really hard, plenty of repeat efforts which is encouraging, but his kicking was woeful. Is it always that bad?

[LostDoggy]

So on the bench to start we have Jones and Roughead? Which gives us one runner for rotations? That isn't going to work.


Fair enough, Jones misses out ,Stack on the bench

FB: Hill Markovic Morris
HB: Murphy Williams Sherman
C: Griffin Boyd Cooney
HF: Grant Lake Ward
FF: Higgins Hall Giansiracusa
Foll: Hudson Cross Picken

Bench: Roughead Liberatore Stack Sub: Gilbee

.

[AndrewP6]

Lake in for Markovic (unlucky, he's been alright thus far)
Gilbee if right, in for Stack.

[LostDoggy]

Bring Lake in for Jones. Put Lake as either the sub or Sub him halfway through (eg Hall today) if confident of a Carlton like pumping.
Would love to see Wally jr get a run maybe for Djerrkura or Libba if sore.

[bornadog]

Djerkurra has been the sub two weeks in a row. Very limited game time today does he get dropped back to Williamstown or play a full game next week at AFL level?

No he hasn't Sherman was sub last week. I Would not be dropping Stack thought he played well this week.

Only one change, Markovic out Lake in

[Hotdog60]

Wasn't overly impressed with Djerkurra's skills today, but his pressure is enough to keep him in the side. Having said that, wouldn't be upset if he got dropped.

Markovic definitely out for Lake. No point giving him another game at Williamstown.

Happy for either Stack or Gilbee to play, I presume the MC will chuck Gilbs straight in.

I haven't actually read anything about Hall yet...was he subbed due to injury? Even if he wasn't, I think using the sub to get rid of a tall for a small is a good way to use it.

I read he had a few back spasms, so gave him a rest

[LostDoggy]

Gilbee in stack to vfl please.
Lake in Marko out but very unlucky, he has exceeded expectations.
Will deserves a run but hard to choose who comes out.

[chef]

No he hasn't Sherman was sub last week. I Would not be dropping Stack thought he played well this week.

Only one change, Markovic out Lake in

Agree, I thought he played well again. If Gilbee wants this spot he should be made to earn at Willi.

[LostDoggy]

Only change I would make is Wallis as Sub for DJ.

[GVGjr]

Only change I would make is Wallis as Sub for DJ.

Had the pleasure of listing to young Mitch today talking about his aim of playing his first game. Impressive talker for someone so young.

[azabob]

No he hasn't Sherman was sub last week. I Would not be dropping Stack thought he played well this week.

Only one change, Markovic out Lake in

Sorry wrong wording. But DJ was the one subbed out last week? Still not great game time.

[LostDoggy]

Bring Lake in for Jones.



No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

Jones must continue to develop in the seniors. Our match committee had the good sense to play Roughead and Jones this week and must continue to do so.

[LostDoggy]

I like Hall as the sub. Worked well today going out, but I think would work just as well coming in at half time. Especially if its a tight game and we need something to get us over the line. He would also have to make the opposing coach have another thing to worry about

[Rocco Jones]

I liked Stack's game today and think Gilbs needs to earn his spot back. Without wanting to take any game on lightly but if you're ever going to pick a side with an eye on our long term goals this season, it's this game. It is a great opportunity to give Stacky some confidence. I think it's the perfect time to bring Mitch in as well, DJ would be an unlucky out.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

For me I think that we should leave Markovic in at FB and as others stated give Lake a run at CHF. This may be a key move against the likes of Collingwood to keep Maxwell honest. So Jones out for Lake.

Also I would drop Stack for Gilbee, as it would be a good game to bring him back and i would rate his skills better than Stack but I would also put it on him that if his skills drop off he will be dropped.

The last change I would make would be Wallis in for DJ, just thought his kicking was very poor and he really needs to know that is not acceptable.

[Mantis]

Does Williamstown having the bye this week alter our selections?

[craigsahibee]

Does Williamstown having the bye this week alter our selections?

And the Bulldogs have the bye the following week, so the thought of "resting" anyone does not really apply. Match Committee may consider minimal changes to give the likes of Lake and Gilbee ample opportunity to regain full fitness before returning to the senior side. Having said that I would love to see Dylan Adison back in the seniors, maybe at the expense of DJ.

[EasternWest]

For me I think that we should leave Markovic in at FB and as others stated give Lake a run at CHF. This may be a key move against the likes of Collingwood to keep Maxwell honest. So Jones out for Lake.

Also I would drop Stack for Gilbee, as it would be a good game to bring him back and i would rate his skills better than Stack but I would also put it on him that if his skills drop off he will be dropped.

The last change I would make would be Wallis in for DJ, just thought his kicking was very poor and he really needs to know that is not acceptable.

I'm a bit ambivalent about this. Lake has gone forward on occasions and in bursts and done reasonably well, but I'm not sure how he'd go as a permanent/semi permanent option.

I don't want to build up my hopes by thinking that he could be a missing link up forward when for some reason, I just have a feeling that his talents wont translate as well to the forward line.

[comrade]

Lake is the best FB in the league. Let's leave him there and give our long term CHF time to develop (Jones).

[Rocco Jones]

Lake is the best FB in the league. Let's leave him there and give our long term CHF time to develop (Jones).

I don't really rate Jones short term wise but I agree with your comment. When it comes to our long term goals this season, I think we need to give Jones a real crack it at as he has a lot more upside come September than whoever else is going to fill in our 22nd spot.

[anfo27]

Still am miffed at people saying Stack played well, he wasn't the worst player out there but i still thought he was very ordinary. Would love to see what everyone else does.

Gilbee and Lake have to come in.

[EasternWest]

Still am miffed at people saying Stack played well, he wasn't the worst player out there but i still thought he was very ordinary. Would love to see what everyone else does.

Gilbee and Lake have to come in.

I think it's more that people are pleased with his application. His intensity seems grestly improved.

[LostDoggy]

Gilbee and Lake have to come in.

Surely we all can agree on this?????
These, guys when in form, are vital to a sucessfull season. Get them in and give them GC to find something.
Maybe what we argue on is who leaves for them???

[mjp]

Still am miffed at people saying Stack played well, he wasn't the worst player out there but i still thought he was very ordinary.

What do you want him to do?

He isn't my favorite either, but 20 touches off half-back, looked to run and carry, hit targets by foot, laid tackles...he is sticking his head over it....

I guess I know what you are saying but he was fine today. Not in the best but far from worst and I cannot see him missing out.

[anfo27]

I think it's more that people are pleased with his application. His intensity seems grestly improved.

No, people have clearly said Stack played well. I agree with that application part and posters can write that and i'll agree but I did not read that.
I've read Gilbee needs to perform in the VFL to earn his spot back from Stack, give me a break.:rolleyes:

[anfo27]

What do you want him to do?
He isn't my favorite either, but 20 touches off half-back, looked to run and carry, hit targets by foot, laid tackles...he is sticking his head over it....

I guess I know what you are saying but he was fine today. Not in the best but far from worst and I cannot see him missing out.

1. keep his feet
2. take the right option
3. don't butcher the footy under minimal pressure.

I don't want to be seen as riding the kid too hard (probably to late huh?) but he is on the half back flank to provide much needed run and hit up targets and he isn't doing that and i get annoyed when people can look at someones stats and say they have played well.

I agree when people say we don't have a lot of options to play that role but please don't say he played well because we dont have depth back there.

[Rocco Jones]

No, people have clearly said Stack played well. I agree with that application part and posters can write that and i'll agree but I did not read that.
I've read Gilbee needs to perform in the VFL to earn his spot back from Stack, give me a break.:rolleyes:

I actually thought Stacky played decently today. I was miffed at his selection for round 1 but he is the type of player who I believe has an upside warranting him getting a decent crack at it. Guys like Moles are dime a dozen but Stack can actually bring something unique to the side through his run and carry.

Really don't get the rolleyes when it comes to Gilbee's spot. It's not 2008 anymore. I think Gilbee really struggled in the latter third of last season and has had a very ordinary pre-season. His foot skills seemed to have waned significantly and his defensive work has been ordinary in that period. I still think he has something to offer but he is definitely in the 'earn your spot' category for mine.

I think Collingwood has set a great template for giving guys a go instead of waiting for waning 'stars' to eat up all their credits and then some Aussie Cricket selectors style.

[comrade]

1. keep his feet
2. take the right option
3. don't butcher the footy under minimal pressure.

I don't want to be seen as riding the kid too hard (probably to late huh?) but he is on the half back flank to provide much needed run and hit up targets and he isn't doing that and i get annoyed when people can look at someones stats and say they have played well.

I agree when people say we don't have a lot of options to play that role but please don't say he played well because we dont have depth back there.

On the majority of occasions, Stack did hold his feet & take the right option & hit targets.

He also put his head over the ball, gave a contest, provided pressure and ran and carried the ball.

What have you seen of Gilbee this pre season (or the latter parts of 2010) that I haven't that suggests he is still a walk up start?

[anfo27]

I actually thought Stacky played decently today. I was miffed at his selection for round 1 but he is the type of player who I believe has an upside warranting him getting a decent crack at it. Guys like Moles are dime a dozen but Stack can actually bring something unique to the side through his run and carry.

Really don't get the rolleyes when it comes to Gilbee's spot. It's not 2008 anymore. I think Gilbee really struggled in the latter third of last season and has had a very ordinary pre-season. His foot skills seemed to have waned significantly and his defensive work has been ordinary in that period. I still think he has something to offer but he is definitely in the 'earn your spot' category for mine.

I think Collingwood has set a great template for giving guys a go instead of waiting for waning 'stars' to eat up all their credits and then some Aussie Cricket selectors style.

I'm quite aware of Gilbees alarming decline in the 2nd half of the season last year but I was more commenting on how posters thought Stack has done enough in todays game to force Gilbee to have an extended stay in the VFL.

[comrade]

I'm quite aware of Gilbees alarming decline in the 2nd half of the season last year but I was more commenting on how posters thought Stack has done enough in todays game to force Gilbee to have an extended stay in the VFL.

How did Gilbee perform last night down at Werribee?

[anfo27]

On the majority of occasions, Stack did hold his feet & take the right option & hit targets.

He also put his head over the ball, gave a contest, provided pressure and ran and carried the ball.
What have you seen of Gilbee this pre season (or the latter parts of 2010) that I haven't that suggests he is still a walk up start?

Agree with the bolded part but can't agree with the first part.

I don't think Gilbee is a walk up start just don't think he has been displaced by Stack in our starting 21

[anfo27]

How did Gilbee perform last night down at Werribee?

Being a Saturday night Comrade i couldn't get down there as i had family function. I did read the paper today and it said he got through the game but wasn't in the best.

I gather you were there Comrade and know exactly how Gilbee went?

[comrade]

Being a Saturday night Comrade i couldn't get down there as i had family function. I did read the paper today and it said he got through the game but wasn't in the best.

I gather you were there Comrade and know exactly how Gilbee went?

No, I wasn't. As you say, all I know is that he wasn't amongst the bests.

I'm interested to hear some reports on his game, especially his kicking and tackling. I still have nightmares about some of his limp one handed attempts towards the end of last season.

[LostDoggy]

Williams did the best tackle i've seen in a while today (for bulldogs players, I think it was williams)

[bornadog]

I like Hall as the sub. Worked well today going out, but I think would work just as well coming in at half time. Especially if its a tight game and we need something to get us over the line. He would also have to make the opposing coach have another thing to worry about

I thought when Hall went off our structure fell apart for awhile.

[bornadog]

What do you want him to do?

He isn't my favorite either, but 20 touches off half-back, looked to run and carry, hit targets by foot, laid tackles...he is sticking his head over it....

I guess I know what you are saying but he was fine today. Not in the best but far from worst and I cannot see him missing out.

We need him to develop and his confidence is growing.

[westdog54]

How did Gilbee perform last night down at Werribee?

Didn't set the world on fire but needed the run and will be far better for it. Kicking and decision making were sharp and defended well. Did enough to indicate he's got a spot in the best 22. Like Lake I'd be hesitant to leave him out with a Bye coming up after next week.

The endeavour was certainly there with Stack but as far as I'm concerned Markovic had Stack covered for endeavour, but I don't think there's any getting around the fact that he's making way for Lake, I don't see why Stack should be safe based purely on today.

[LostDoggy]

I thought when Hall went off our structure fell apart for awhile.

I don't think Hall gives the team much structure other then they want to pass it to him 80% of the time going forward. I can't remember the last time all our midfielders had multiple goals. (I understand though that the opposition wasn't that much today)

[comrade]

I don't see why Stack should be safe based purely on today.

I'm not suggesting he should be safe based on today's effort, just that Gilbee shouldn't be a walk up start.

[westdog54]

I'm not suggesting he should be safe based on today's effort, just that Gilbee shouldn't be a walk up start.

I don't disagree, but I believe that Gilbee should be higher in 'best 22' calculations than Stack as it stands at the moment. Based on what I saw Saturday night he will offer us more than Stack both as a defender and on the rebound.

[comrade]

I don't disagree, but I believe that Gilbee should be higher in 'best 22' calculations than Stack as it stands at the moment. Based on what I saw Saturday night he will offer us more than Stack both as a defender and on the rebound.

Good to hear he was impressive. I'd love for him to come in and perform the way we've been accustomed during the 2006-2009 seasons. It would make the loss of Wood a lot easier to take.

[westdog54]

I thought when Hall went off our structure fell apart for awhile.

I think half the reason he went off was to see how our structure went without him, to see if the team could create goals without him, and to see if the Likes of Jones, Roughead and Grant could stand up. For mine Roughead impressed me when he went forward. Presented well and took a couple of good grabs.

The other half of it was list management as far as I'm concerned. The game was well and truly won and there was no point playing him any further. Based on what I saw today it won't surprise me to see Hudson rested between byes.

[westdog54]

Good to hear he was impressive. I'd love for him to come in and perform the way we've been accustomed during the 2006-2009 seasons. It would make the loss of Wood a lot easier to take.

Didn't even think of that. Makes it even more important to have good decision makers down back.

[LostDoggy]

Lake is the best FB in the league. Let's leave him there and give our long term CHF time to develop (Jones).




Precisely.

[Cooney17]

I think Stack would have to be dropped, he hasn't impressed me much, bring in Gilbee for him. Need the class and efficentcy that he brings to the squad.
I would be really disappointed if Markovic was dropped as I feel that he has proven his spot in the team over the last couple of weeks.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to drop Djerkurra for Wallis to give him a run and see how he goes against the Suns.

[LostDoggy]

I actually thought Stacky played decently today. I was miffed at his selection for round 1 but he is the type of player who I believe has an upside warranting him getting a decent crack at it. Guys like Moles are dime a dozen but Stack can actually bring something unique to the side through his run and carry.

Really don't get the rolleyes when it comes to Gilbee's spot. It's not 2008 anymore. I think Gilbee really struggled in the latter third of last season and has had a very ordinary pre-season. His foot skills seemed to have waned significantly and his defensive work has been ordinary in that period. I still think he has something to offer but he is definitely in the 'earn your spot' category for mine.

I think Collingwood has set a great template for giving guys a go instead of waiting for waning 'stars' to eat up all their credits and then some Aussie Cricket selectors style.

I'm all for giving the kids that deserve it a go but stack is a liability, he is not up to it. Gilbee needs to come in. Alternatively, play guys like vas, Howard, tutt or wallis that have some skill. I really don't know how stacks place in the teams justified. Addison should be ahead of him too. I just don't get it.

[comrade]

I really don't know how stacks place in the teams justified. Addison should be ahead of him too. I just don't get it.

Completely different players, completely different roles. With Gilbee and Wood injured, we lack a runner off half back - playing Addison ahead of Stack wouldn't solve this. Yeah, Stack has made some errors but he has ran and carried the ball which is precisely why he was picked.

Addison is really competing with Djerkurra and Libba for a spot.

[Bulldog Joe]

Does the Williamstown fixture influence the selections?

This week Williamstown travel to Perth to Play Swan Districts in the Foxtel Cup. I assume the Bulldog listed players are expected to play in those games.

With the Doggies heading over later in the month to play Freo, I think it would be better for Lake and Gilbee to play at Etihad as they are likely to be in the team for ANZAC Day against Freo. You need to look after older players as the travel just increases recovery issues.

While it would be nice to see a report on their performance it is expected that they only need to prove fitness. Certainly true for Lake.

I would be easing Stack and Djerrkura out as they both need to learn to keep their feet better. Dj's disposal was mostly poor.

[chef]

No, people have clearly said Stack played well. I agree with that application part and posters can write that and i'll agree but I did not read that.
I've read Gilbee needs to perform in the VFL to earn his spot back from Stack, give me a break.:rolleyes:

I for one thinks he should. Gilbee's form over the last season and a half has been very average and he shouldn't be a walk up start. Stack IMO has been performing his role well and deserves to hang onto it until his form says otherwise.

[anfo27]

I for one thinks he should. Gilbee's form over the last season and a half has been very average and he shouldn't be a walk up start. Stack IMO has been performing his role well and deserves to hang onto it until his form says otherwise.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree because i don't think he has taken his chance and made it difficult for Gilbee to get a recall.

[LostDoggy]

The idea of Lake going to CHF is for this game only to give him some game time( lets face it the ball should be in our forward 50 for a fair percentage of the game ), Jones can't go to then bench so he has a rest ( need some pace on the bench ). Gilbee as the Sub also works well for this game , DJ has made a contribution as the Sub but makes way for Gilbee and gets a rest

.

[LostDoggy]

Interesting the way the match committee will go, 2 trains of thought. Do you give some of the older players a early rest or do you go for the big win.

I think you can't take the GC lightly as they do have some good players in their side, Will had a good game for Willy do we just give Ben a rest for the long haul and maybe Barry.

FB: Stack, Lake, Morris.
HB: Murphy, Williams, Picken.
C: Sherman, Boyd, Cross.
HF: Higgins, Jones, Hill.
FF: Grant, Roughead, Giansiracusa.
FOLL: Minson, Cooney, Griffen.
INT:Ward, Djerkurra, Liberatore, Gilbee

Marovic if Lake needs more time

GC has a big guy in Dixon 200cm at FF and a giant in Smith 205cm and quality in the poached stars from other clubs.

Not to forget Harbrow who will be very dangerous to us across half-back, given HF is our biggest hole and he knows our moves, knows our gameplan.


For everyone wanting to rest Hudson, how much rest does he need.

We have a bye after this week. You want him to play against Collingwood having not played for 3 weeks?

This ^^^. Good point.


Wasn't overly impressed with Djerkurra's skills today, but his pressure is enough to keep him in the side. Having said that, wouldn't be upset if he got dropped.

Markovic definitely out for Lake. No point giving him another game at Williamstown.

Happy for either Stack or Gilbee to play, I presume the MC will chuck Gilbs straight in.

I haven't actually read anything about Hall yet...was he subbed due to injury? Even if he wasn't, I think using the sub to get rid of a tall for a small is a good way to use it.

Gilbee should earn his spot.


No, people have clearly said Stack played well. I agree with that application part and posters can write that and i'll agree but I did not read that.
I've read Gilbee needs to perform in the VFL to earn his spot back from Stack, give me a break.:rolleyes:

Why not? That kind of selection philosophy only breeds complacency.


The idea of Lake going to CHF is for this game only to give him some game time( lets face it the ball should be in our forward 50 for a fair percentage of the game ), Jones can't go to then bench so he has a rest ( need some pace on the bench ). Gilbee as the Sub also works well for this game , DJ has made a contribution as the Sub but makes way for Gilbee and gets a rest

.

Gilbee as the sub could work very well. Bringing him on allows us to totally move around our forward and back sixes and confuse the opposition a great deal, and Rocket'd love that kinda thing.

[Topdog]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree because i don't think he has taken his chance and made it difficult for Gilbee to get a recall.

But did Gilbee take his chance? He didn't deserve to be in the team based on last seasons form and Stack played better yesterday than Gilbee did for about half of last year.

[Maddog37]

I hope the MC instruct our players to take the shorter safer option of kicking to players with no-one inbetween the kicker and receiver.

I thought a few times we tried to kick over someone in the zone and pinpoint a player. Kicking over someone means the ball is in the air and gives the opposition time to spoil.

It is a basic of handball that you do not handball over someones head and if possible I would prefer we did not do it with our kicks either. I am being pretty picky but poor choices against good opposition will mean turnovers and that is what kills teams nowadays.

[chef]

But did Gilbee take his chance? He didn't deserve to be in the team based on last seasons form and Stack played better yesterday than Gilbee did for about half of last year.

This^^

[bornadog]

I'm all for giving the kids that deserve it a go but stack is a liability, he is not up to it. Gilbee needs to come in. Alternatively, play guys like vas, Howard, tutt or wallis that have some skill. I really don't know how stacks place in the teams justified. Addison should be ahead of him too. I just don't get it.

For gods sake he has played 13 games, give hoim a chance especially since he has now displayed he can play football. Sure he made a few mistakes but I don't see posters pointing out all the good things he also did.

When the MC plays older players everyone is calling for young players to come in, when the MC plays them to get game time in them the players are bagged. Looks like we have a new whipping boy on the block. Gilbee is lucky to have another year left in him and he has to earn his spot, as does Addison.

[EasternWest]

For gods sake he has played 13 games, give hoim a chance especially since he has now displayed he can play football. Sure he made a few mistakes but I don't see posters pointing out all the good things he also did.
When the MC plays older players everyone is calling for young players to come in, when the MC plays them to get game time in them the players are bagged. Looks like we have a new whipping boy on the block. Gilbee is lucky to have another year left in him and he has to earn his spot, as does Addison.

I think plenty of posters are pointing out the good things he did.

For mine, he stays in.

[LostDoggy]

Completely different players, completely different roles. With Gilbee and Wood injured, we lack a runner off half back - playing Addison ahead of Stack wouldn't solve this. Yeah, Stack has made some errors but he has ran and carried the ball which is precisely why he was picked.

Addison is really competing with Djerkurra and Libba for a spot.

Gilbee and Howard as suggested then.

[chef]

For gods sake he has played 13 games, give hoim a chance especially since he has now displayed he can play football. Sure he made a few mistakes but I don't see posters pointing out all the good things he also did.

When the MC plays older players everyone is calling for young players to come in, when the MC plays them to get game time in them the players are bagged. Looks like we have a new whipping boy on the block. Gilbee is lucky to have another year left in him and he has to earn his spot, as does Addison.

He's not Robinson Crusoe there.

[LostDoggy]

For gods sake he has played 13 games, give hoim a chance especially since he has now displayed he can play football. Sure he made a few mistakes but I don't see posters pointing out all the good things he also did.

When the MC plays older players everyone is calling for young players to come in, when the MC plays them to get game time in them the players are bagged. Looks like we have a new whipping boy on the block. Gilbee is lucky to have another year left in him and he has to earn his spot, as does Addison.

The bolded is the issue I have, you are seeing it differently.

As for whipping boy, that's not what I do. I was behind him when he started and was pleased with his first game and I thought he showed some promise, in my opinion, he hasn't got any better. He has been pretty much in the worst players every time I have seen him. Poor disposal, poor decision, poor skills. I agree he is trying hard and can make a spoil. I didn't see him run and carry many times and once he inexplicably ran straight into a Brisbane player.

If he improves a lot I will be very happy, I just dont see it and think we are wasting a spot at the moment.


But did Gilbee take his chance? He didn't deserve to be in the team based on last seasons form and Stack played better yesterday than Gilbee did for about half of last year.

I dont agree. Gilbee has certainly not been himself but Stack better than him? Maybe on Gilbs worst and Stacks best day. Not sure we have seen either.

Stack will be killed by a decent team. He is not up to it from what I have seen and has limited potential compared to other young players.

[chef]

Gilbee has certainly not been himself but Stack better than him? Maybe on Gilbs worst and Stacks best day. Not sure we have seen either.

Stack will be killed by a decent team. He is not up to it from what I have seen and has limited potential compared to other young players.

Don't agree. The gap between these two nowadays is very slim. Gilbee isn't the player he was 2 seasons ago and neither is Stack.

[Mantis]

I dont agree. Gilbee has certainly not been himself but Stack better than him? Maybe on Gilbs worst and Stacks best day. Not sure we have seen either.

Stack will be killed by a decent team. He is not up to it from what I have seen and has limited potential compared to other young players.

And Gilbee won't?

[bornadog]

The bolded is the issue I have, you are seeing it differently.

As for whipping boy, that's not what I do. I was behind him when he started and was pleased with his first game and I thought he showed some promise, in my opinion, he hasn't got any better. He has been pretty much in the worst players every time I have seen him. Poor disposal, poor decision, poor skills. I agree he is trying hard and can make a spoil. I didn't see him run and carry many times and once he inexplicably ran straight into a Brisbane player.

If he improves a lot I will be very happy, I just dont see it and think we are wasting a spot at the moment.



I dont agree. Gilbee has certainly not been himself but Stack better than him? Maybe on Gilbs worst and Stacks best day. Not sure we have seen either.

Stack will be killed by a decent team. He is not up to it from what I have seen and has limited potential compared to other young players.

Well we will see if the football experts ie the MC agree with you.

[immortalmike]

And Gilbee won't?

Was he last year? How many times did his man kick a bag?

[Rance Fan]

Out

Hall, DJ, Hudson,

In

Minson, Wallis, Addison


Roughie - FF

Rest Huddo and Hall

[Maddog37]

Having the bye next week complicates things for me. I would ideally rest Huddo and bring in Will but that means two weeks off. Same with BBBH.


Keen to get Vez, Wallis and Howard in the team, not to mention Addison but no idea who to drop. Should be a very interesting week on the selection table.

[The Coon Dog]

Rest Huddo and Hall

Why? They have only played 2 games plus we have the bye in round 4!

[Ozza]

Getting game time into Lake, I would suggest, is a must.
Will be at the expense of Markovic who has filled the role well.

Djerkerra has been a sub in both ways - in both games - so I would have thought he'd miss this week - but Willy having the bye might change that.

[LostDoggy]

Tough call, but I think I would like to see Minson given a run. By all accounts, he played fairly well on Friday night?? Would love to see Mitch given the chance too, but I'm not sure who should come out, perhaps DJ. I am of the opinion that we must try and get as much game time into these younger guys (exclude Minson in this comment) as we can - experience at AFL level is just that much more valuable than at VFL level.

[Pickenitup]

I am pretty sure Willi are playing in The Foxtel Cup on Saturday

[anfo27]

But did Gilbee take his chance? He didn't deserve to be in the team based on last seasons form and Stack played better yesterday than Gilbee did for about half of last year.

Come on TD we all know these players have credits in the bank whether we like it or not. We all know about Gilbees rapid decline last year and should have been dropped but he wasn't the only one there.
The issue for me is not whether Gilbee is an automatic selection beause we all know he shouldn't be, it's whether Stack has done enough in the first 2 games to warrant posters suggesting that Stack stays in Gilbee place. You obviously think he has and you're not alone on that and I think there is no way Stack has done anywhere near enough to keep Gilbee out.
To say Stack has played better yesterday than Gilbee did last year is rubbish IMO. I hope the kid can prove me wrong as I'll be happy to put my hand up and say I got it wrong. I want every player wearing the red, white & blue to do well but I have not seen anything from this guy that makes me think i have got him wrong. I'm sure we have all thought a player wasn't up to it and ends up proving us wrong and Stack could do that but I really really really don't think so.

[Rance Fan]

Why? They have only played 2 games plus we have the bye in round 4!

Well they may have soreness.
Hall had a bit of a stiff back apparently.

Plus importantly it gives other players a run in the 1st.
VFL doesnt quite compare with the AFL.
So in theory we would inturn have more players match ready if called upon.

[LostDoggy]

Well we will see if the football experts ie the MC agree with you.

Happy to go with this as long as we are talking an important game, like a final, not GC this week.

Anyway, I'm allowed to have my opinion, thats what this thread is about.

[bornadog]

Happy to go with this as long as we are talking an important game, like a final, not GC this week.

Anyway, I'm allowed to have my opinion, thats what this thread is about.

Yes and that is why I am not argueing with you, we both have our opinions. The one thing I am happy about is giving all these young guys a go. I don't believe Jones did much on the week end, but I believe he needs to be kept in the team and I am not calling for him to be dropped, at this stage.;)

[LostDoggy]

I think selection this year depends a lot on whether the MC believe the current team can win a GF. If not I am sure the younger blokes will get more of a run and if they come up we may play in one this year but if not it holds us in good stead for 2012.

If Gilbee and Lake are held back for another two weeks I believe we are building a new team.

[LostDoggy]

Yes and that is why I am not argueing with you, we both have our opinions. The one thing I am happy about is giving all these young guys a go. I don't believe Jones did much on the week end, but I believe he needs to be kept in the team and I am not calling for him to be dropped, at this stage.;)

Cheers cobber. It is definitely good seeing these guys have a run, I thought Jones showed a bit last year then dropped off in round 1 (like about everyone else). He was a lot better against Brisbane and he is very important for our future, they say the bigger guys take a while but in the meantime he adds to the team structure I reckon and provides an option other than BBBH. Keen to keep him on for sure.

I loved Hill for a season and a half and have maligned him for the last season and a half, he seems to have his head right and enjoying the run through the back line, that was really pleasing to see. He is a gun when he is on.

[Bulldog4life]

For gods sake he has played 13 games, give hoim a chance especially since he has now displayed he can play football. Sure he made a few mistakes but I don't see posters pointing out all the good things he also did.

When the MC plays older players everyone is calling for young players to come in, when the MC plays them to get game time in them the players are bagged. Looks like we have a new whipping boy on the block. Gilbee is lucky to have another year left in him and he has to earn his spot, as does Addison.

Very good points. I watched Stacky closely yesterday and sure he made mistakes but who didn't. He definitely has improved and with more experience, only having played 13 games, will continue to improve as well as feeling more confident in his ability.
He adds dash from the backline and can play forward as well.I hope the MC perservere with him.

[Mantis]

Was he last year? How many times did his man kick a bag?

His last 6 or 8 weeks were very poor and if we had a full list I would think that he wouldn't have been in our team.

No bags, but his kicking was poor and he lost many a 1 on 1 contest, his effort against Schneider in the 3rd qtr of the PF typifying how poorly he was travelling.

[Ghost Dog]

Yep, agree with this. Sherman showed a lot more grunt than I thought he had in him.

If Stack goes out for Gilbee, he could consider himsely unlucky. I think if Gilbee's fit, he does get first crack at it. I don't necessarily think that's the way it should be, but it's the way we've historically been.

Which player is more likley to be able to fit in with the team plan and carry out instructions?
We have a good selection of fit players. Who can get the little things right that the coach is demanding? Our weakness has been our defensive pressure. The new mantra is tackle and man up inside 50, lock it in. This is not a pot at Gilbs, who is actually much much harder at the ball than most people give him credit for. Maybe his elite kicking overshadows this but having watched his replays he's no slouch in that area. I just think he's a touch too slow for what the team is trying to achieve. In another matchup he may be ideal and its a long season. Murphs knees are always a worry, we just may need another half back with surgical kicking skills like Lindsay.

[immortalmike]

His last 6 or 8 weeks were very poor and if we had a full list I would think that he wouldn't have been in our team.

No bags, but his kicking was poor and he lost many a 1 on 1 contest, his effort against Schneider in the 3rd qtr of the PF typifying how poorly he was travelling.

On Gilbee's worst day (which was his end to last year) his kicking and nous were streaks ahead of where Stack is now and his defending was at least on par if not better. This is not a shot at Stack, who I think has been decent, but to even compare him to Lindsay is hyperbolic. Personally I'd bring Gilbee in, keep Stack and move Murph up the ground, with the option of dropping either of the first two as form dictates.

I've read your comments before on Gilbee so I know your reasoning for not wanting him picked but I wouldn't be prepared to write him off based on a slow preseason and an end of 2010 which was pretty much a debacle for everyone wearing red, white and blue. I think he has earned a chance to at least play a few senior games this year before we call for his head.

[Grantysghost]

In : Lake, Gilbee
Out : Markovic, Stack

[Mantis]

On Gilbee's worst day (which was his end to last year) his kicking and nous were streaks ahead of where Stack is now and his defending was at least on par if not better. This is not a shot at Stack, who I think has been decent, but to even compare him to Lindsay is hyperbolic. Personally I'd bring Gilbee in, keep Stack and move Murph up the ground, with the option of dropping either of the first two as form dictates.

I've read your comments before on Gilbee so I know your reasoning for not wanting him picked but I wouldn't be prepared to write him off based on a slow preseason and an end of 2010 which was pretty much a debacle for everyone wearing red, white and blue. I think he has earned a chance to at least play a few senior games this year before we call for his head.

I have never said I don't want Gilbee picked, I just want him picked on form and on form his position in the team is uncertain. He will get opportunities this season and I would hope that he performs well because when he performs well he is a vital part of our side, but we just didn't see it enough last year.

I agree that from what we have seen of Stack so far this season his position in the team is far from guaranteed as there has been some quite obvious teething problems, but there have been some positives and I would hope over the course of 6 to 10 games his confidence would increase which would no doubt help his decision making and execution.

[bornadog]

I have never said I don't want Gilbee picked, I just want him picked on form and on form his position in the team is uncertain. He will get opportunities this season and I would hope that he performs well because when he performs well he is a vital part of our side, but we just didn't see it enough last year.

I agree that from what we have seen of Stack so far this season his position in the team is far from guaranteed as there has been some quite obvious teething problems, but there have been some positives and I would hope over the course of 6 to 10 games his confidence would increase which would no doubt help his decision making and execution.

I find it amazing when a player makes a couple of errors and that is all that people focus on. According to Stacks stats, he made 3 errors in his 20 posessions and he had 80% effective disposals.

I for one would like to see him get more game time and let Gilbee, Addison etc earn their spot on form not reputation.

[BulldogBelle]

I find it amazing when a player makes a couple of errors and that is all that people focus on. According to Stacks stats, he made 3 errors in his 20 posessions and he had 80% effective disposals.

I for one would like to see him get more game time and let Gilbee, Addison etc earn their spot on form not reputation.



In: Lake

Out: Markovic

Markovic hasnt done anything wrong, though if Brian is fit, he needs to be selected to regain match fitness.

Gold Coast will be a good test for players like Stack, Djurkerra & Jones, who unlike Libba and Roughead, probably havent shown as much (being in the 'younger' brigade bracket...

Hopefully our younger guys perform better than their younger opponents from the GC, if they dont then they may be in some short term trouble

Addison and Gilbee should be forced to develop form and fitness in the VFL

[Cyberdoggie]

I thought when Hall went off our structure fell apart for awhile.

Probably all the more reason to play without him at times.

Grant and Jones are going to have to learn to take charge at some point.

Mind you it doesn't help when our structure doesn't let them lead naturally at the balls on most occasions, rather starting high and running back towards goal.


Just on Jones, Chris Grant needs to teach this kid to get his arms extended out further to take a grab. Jones seems to want to mark the ball 5cm from his nose, which isn't the way to do it.

[bornadog]

In: Lake

Out: Markovic

Markovic hasnt done anything wrong, though if Brian is fit, he needs to be selected to regain match fitness.

Gold Coast will be a good test for players like Stack, Djurkerra & Jones, who unlike Libba and Roughead, probably havent shown as much (being in the 'younger' brigade bracket...

Hopefully our younger guys perform better than their younger opponents from the GC, if they dont then they may be in some short term trouble

Addison and Gilbee should be forced to develop form and fitness in the VFL

I can't wait to see our young guys versus theirs.

They had somethjing like 12 debutants and we had quite a few first year (equivalent)players:

Roughead
Jones
DJ
Stack
Libba
Markovic

A great test.

[Cyberdoggie]

Very difficult to make changes this week.

If anyone it will probably end up being Markovic for Lake.

I doubt anyone would be sore from the match other than maybe Cooney whose knee was bandaged up considerably. Stack limped off like his leg fell off at one point and came back on 2 minutes later with no issues.

I think Jones will stay in for the GC game. It's probably the best game for him to play in as it could be a match where he kicks a few and gets some confidence. Could be a watershed moment for him.

I'm not a fan of Stack i think he makes far too many mistakes compared to his positives but as we don't really have much else in the running half backs at the moment he'll keep his spot for now as he is at least serviceable and may improve. Gilbee needs to show his best footy if he wants his spot back, if he gets in after 1 average game at Williamstown then they aren't setting a very good example.

[bornadog]

Very difficult to make changes this week.

If anyone it will probably end up being Markovic for Lake.

I doubt anyone would be sore from the match other than maybe Cooney whose knee was bandaged up considerably. Stack limped off like his leg fell off at one point and came back on 2 minutes later with no issues.

I think Jones will stay in for the GC game. It's probably the best game for him to play in as it could be a match where he kicks a few and gets some confidence. Could be a watershed moment for him.

I'm not a fan of Stack i think he makes far too many mistakes compared to his positives but as we don't really have much else in the running half backs at the moment he'll keep his spot for now as he is at least serviceable and may improve. Gilbee needs to show his best footy if he wants his spot back, if he gets in after 1 average game at Williamstown then they aren't setting a very good example.

I am sorry to keep haqrping but where does this perception come from. His stats indicate 3 errors with an 80% disposal efficiency, one of the highest against Brisbane? He had 20 possessions.

[G-Mo77]

I doubt anyone would be sore from the match other than maybe Cooney whose knee was bandaged up considerably. Stack limped off like his leg fell off at one point and came back on 2 minutes later with no issues.


Cooney's knee was bandaged like that last week as well. It looks bad but it doesn't seem to bother him. I didn't see Stack's injury, when did it happen? Libba also went off in the 4th but came back, apparently that was because of a kick to the leg and was not an issue. I think we have a pretty clean slate from Sundays game.

[mjp]

I am sorry to keep haqrping but where does this perception come from. His stats indicate 3 errors with an 80% disposal efficiency, one of the highest against Brisbane? He had 20 possessions.

I suspect cd is talking about his career rather than the Brians game. I actually agree with both of you - he was fine vs Brisbane but has been worse than shaky in seasons past.

[Greystache]

I am sorry to keep haqrping but where does this perception come from. His stats indicate 3 errors with an 80% disposal efficiency, one of the highest against Brisbane? He had 20 possessions.

A game has more to it than how many possessions a player got and what their efficiency % was. Stats are nice but they don't necessarily say anything. Stack slipping over in the goal square allowing his opponent an uncontested mark and goal wouldn't come up on his stats, nor would him fumbling a handball from a team mate that gets picked up by an opponent who kicks a goal, nor would a simple tackle being broken allowing an opponent an easy goal etc.

I actually think Stack's been pretty servicable so far in two completely contrasting games, but blindly following stats as proof of a player playing well is just following blindly.

[LostDoggy]

I actually think Stack's been pretty servicable so far in two completely contrasting games, but blindly following stats as proof of a player playing well is just following blindly.

The stats were provide to counter the false idea that he made lot of mistakes not for proof he played well.

[1eyedog]

Djerkurra's chasing and pressure acts were good when he came on. Got a bit of it too. I don't want to take pace out of the side so I think he he should stay in.

Sherman definitely plays a full game. After hearing he was a nancy boy, I was impressed with his attack at the ball.

I'm not sure why Gilbee comes straight in for Stack. He needs to earn a spot. If he blitzed down at Werribee last night, fine, bring him in. If not, give him another week in the magoos.

Not sure where this comes from. I watched him at the Lions for a number of years, he usually went in hard and won his own ball. This was a core component of his game when he won the B&F and this dropped off significantly last year, which may have generated this type of opinion.

[Ghost Dog]

Not sure where this comes from. I watched him at the Lions for a number of years, he usually went in hard and won his own ball. This was a core component of his game when he won the B&F and this dropped off significantly last year, which may have generated this type of opinion.

Maybe all the shots a la Chippendales with ripped denims and oiled washboard abs floating around on the net have something to do with it. :D

[Sockeye Salmon]

Very difficult to make changes this week.

If anyone it will probably end up being Markovic for Lake.

I doubt anyone would be sore from the match other than maybe Cooney whose knee was bandaged up considerably. Stack limped off like his leg fell off at one point and came back on 2 minutes later with no issues.

I think Jones will stay in for the GC game. It's probably the best game for him to play in as it could be a match where he kicks a few and gets some confidence. Could be a watershed moment for him.

I'm not a fan of Stack i think he makes far too many mistakes compared to his positives but as we don't really have much else in the running half backs at the moment he'll keep his spot for now as he is at least serviceable and may improve. Gilbee needs to show his best footy if he wants his spot back, if he gets in after 1 average game at Williamstown then they aren't setting a very good example.

One poster on another site said Gilbee only played about 50% game time but while he was on was easily BOG.

[Greystache]

The stats were provide to counter the false idea that he made lot of mistakes not for proof he played well.

I realise that.

My point was those stats only show he didn't make many skill errors. There's a lot more to a game than disposals, he could've made 15 shocking errors that cost 10 goals that aren't represented by those stats.

[BulldogBelle]

Stack didn't play too badly against Brisbane, but the competition wasn't that hot. When you watch him closely you notice all of the little stuff-ups. These fumbles etc are there with most players (unless you are like Mr Smooth, Shaun Higgins or Josh Hill). Noticeable with Stack were his very first kick, that was kicked right into the opposition player when he had plenty of time to size up a target and the other one was where he attempted to run off the mark, but ran straight into the player on the mark. Otherwise Stack did a couple of nice extractions and had a well weighted handball that resulted in a goal. Nothing great about his game, but nothing too poor either. His man, Polkinghorne kicked two goals one, which isn't a good stat for Stack considering the total score kicked by Brisbane was very low.

Gia had a good game, his game the previous week was also good. Gia got into the rough and tumble and was often on the bottom of the pack. His passes to teammates often resulted in goals.

Jones continues to improve. I liked the long chase he gave in the third quarter that resulted in the ball becoming dislodged.

[LostDoggy]

Against Brisbane it seemed like Stack would continuously kick the ball without looking where he was kicking it. I hope the coaching staff show him the vision and he can work on actually finding targets. He had a decent game though.

[LostDoggy]

I am sorry to keep haqrping but where does this perception come from. His stats indicate 3 errors with an 80% disposal efficiency, one of the highest against Brisbane? He had 20 possessions.

My perception is from things like...

Kicking directly to an opposition player
Handballing to guys under pressure
Being out-positioned by his opponent
Handballing to a blokes ankles
Not providing an option

I guess the 3 errors on his stats would relate to only the first area I mentioned.

What constitutes a tackle stat? Does the player have to be dispossessed or is it any time the tackling player makes contact? I ask because last week, and he wasnt on his own, a number of tackles didnt 'stick'.

[Cyberdoggie]

I am sorry to keep haqrping but where does this perception come from. His stats indicate 3 errors with an 80% disposal efficiency, one of the highest against Brisbane? He had 20 possessions.

Yeah i wasn't referring to this match specifically, rather his sketchy past.

But i seriously doubt he had an 80% efficiency rating though.

Dont' forget Eagleton used to get great stats as well but we all know how he kicked the ball.

To me Stack is definately a confidence player and he's gaining that confidence steadily yet if he has any doubts in himself at all he's the type that makes some real blunders.
Basic stuff like positioning himself in a contest, errant handballs to stationary players with their back to play when he could take the game on himself, deciding to mark instead of punch, kicking trick kicks of the side of the boot to hit a target on a 45 degree angle from the direction he is running when he has the time to adjust his body or kick on a left, not staying in close enough body contact with his man to spoil effectively etc.

Having said that the biggest concern about stack since we drafted him was that he just couldn't find the pill often enough in one game. He would avg 15 disposals max at Willy.
The fact that he is achieving 20 plus in the games so far at the dogs is a positive.
If he starts to believe in himself then i'm tipping we won't see a lot of the bad things he does and we'll start to see some of things he can do which we have heard of in training.

[Cyberdoggie]

My perception is from things like...

Kicking directly to an opposition player
Handballing to guys under pressure
Being out-positioned by his opponent
Handballing to a blokes ankles
Not providing an option

I guess the 3 errors on his stats would relate to only the first area I mentioned.

What constitutes a tackle stat? Does the player have to be dispossessed or is it any time the tackling player makes contact? I ask because last week, and he wasnt on his own, a number of tackles didnt 'stick'.

I agree, i don't believe the stats are very accurate and they certainly don't read between the lines. It's either a yes or no answer and no analysis is given. ie Tackle = Yes, however the opposition player still got the ball out to his teamate when the tackle could of been more effective and stopped the play.

Tackle stats don't truly reflect what we see. Gia being the good example.

I think the next game i'll record my version of Stacks Stats and compare them to the official ones. ;)

[bornadog]

A game has more to it than how many possessions a player got and what their efficiency % was. Stats are nice but they don't necessarily say anything. Stack slipping over in the goal square allowing his opponent an uncontested mark and goal wouldn't come up on his stats, nor would him fumbling a handball from a team mate that gets picked up by an opponent who kicks a goal, nor would a simple tackle being broken allowing an opponent an easy goal etc.

I actually think Stack's been pretty servicable so far in two completely contrasting games, but blindly following stats as proof of a player playing well is just following blindly.

No one is falsely trying to follow stats.:mad:

I am just sick and tired of posters, members, supporters having whipping boys time and time again all based on a few errors players make and not seeing the bigger picture.


The stats were provide to counter the false idea that he made lot of mistakes not for proof he played well.

Exactly - some people don't follow the entire thread before they jump down on you.

[Cyberdoggie]

Cooney's knee was bandaged like that last week as well. It looks bad but it doesn't seem to bother him. I didn't see Stack's injury, when did it happen? Libba also went off in the 4th but came back, apparently that was because of a kick to the leg and was not an issue. I think we have a pretty clean slate from Sundays game.

Yeah Stack went for a contest in a pack and got a little bit of contact to one of his arms that were extended for the mark. It was near the interchange and he took himself straight off and walked around like he had a dead arm for a few minutes before coming back on. Just a light stinger i think.

[bornadog]

I agree, i don't believe the stats are very accurate and they certainly don't read between the lines. It's either a yes or no answer and no analysis is given. ie Tackle = Yes, however the opposition player still got the ball out to his teamate when the tackle could of been more effective and stopped the play.

Tackle stats don't truly reflect what we see. Gia being the good example.

I think the next game i'll record my version of Stacks Stats and compare them to the official ones. ;)

FFS - so Prostats and others are all wrong and your right. Fine I have now read everything.

[EasternWest]

Nothing great about his game, but nothing too poor either. His man, Polkinghorne kicked two goals one, which isn't a good stat for Stack considering the total score kicked by Brisbane was very low.

Sometimes goals scored don't tell you a lot either. Polkinghorne scored two goals straight in the 4th quarter, both times streaming from the midfield when Stack wasn't his direct opponent.

Stack did fine on Sunday.

[soupman]

So from this thread we can conclude that any data, whether it's possessions, tackles, clangers, goals kicked, tog etc. can be easily ignored and countered if they contradict your argument.:rolleyes:

[bornadog]

.

What constitutes a tackle stat? Does the player have to be dispossessed or is it any time the tackling player makes contact? I ask because last week, and he wasnt on his own, a number of tackles didnt 'stick'.

There is also a stat called effective tackles.

example Cooney laid 6 tackles but only 4 were effective.

[Greystache]

No one is falsely trying to follow stats.:mad:

I am just sick and tired of posters, members, supporters having whipping boys time and time again all based on a few errors players make and not seeing the bigger picture.



Exactly - some people don't follow the entire thread before they jump down on you.

The point is rolling out disposal efficiency stats mean nothing other than the players disposal efficiency were either high or low. A players could have 15 short passes around defensive 50m that all hit the target, yet his direct opponent kicks 15 goals on him. His disposal efficiency will still be 100% but I bet he won't be in the team next week.


The criticism of Stack has not been his disposal, it's his fumbling under pressure, not putting his body on the line to win the ball, and not being accountable for his opponent, these are the mistakes that people are complaining about, show me somewhere in those disposal efficiency stats that show he didn't make any of these mistakes and I'll refute anyone who's claims Stack's made too many mistakes.

As I said, I don't think he's made many errors this year, but no one has produced any proof to refute the claims people have been making. My perception is they're wrong, but that's all it is, my perception.

[LostDoggy]

So from this thread we can conclude that any data, whether it's possessions, tackles, clangers, goals kicked, tog etc. can be easily ignored and countered if they contradict your argument.:rolleyes:





http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/You_Kent_Always_Say_What_You_Want.png

"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that."

[bornadog]

As I said, I don't think he's made many errors this year, but no one has produced any proof to refute the claims people have been making. My perception is they're wrong, but that's all it is, my perception.

Well we agree on that but why have a go at me when I am trying to show people that it is just perception based on a few errors, fumbles and that they need to step back and look at his total performance. The proof is why I looked at that stats, there is no other way than to record every moment he played.

The thing is, no one says Jones should be dropped, or DJ who I thought was average when he came on and made lots of errors, or Roughead or was smashed in the ruck.

[Greystache]

Well we agree on that but why have a go at me when I am trying to show people that it is just perception based on a few errors, fumbles and that they need to step back and look at his total performance. The proof is why I looked at that stats, there is no other way than to record every moment he played.

The thing is, no one says Jones should be dropped, or DJ who I thought was average when he came on and made lots of errors, or Roughead or was smashed in the ruck.

We do agree (although I didn't think Roughead was poor overall). I wasn't having a go at you (but I can understand why you might think I was ;)). I was just making a general comment about the way statistics are thrown around these days as ways of proving points. Most statistics when analyzed closely are actually irrelevant to the subject. That and having done statistics at university I hate them with a passion!!

[bornadog]

We do agree (although I didn't think Roughead was poor overall). I wasn't having a go at you (but I can understand why you might think I was ;)). I was just making a general comment about the way statistics are thrown around these days as ways of proving points. Most statistics when analyzed closely are actually irrelevant to the subject. That and having done statistics at university I hate them with a passion!!

Overall Roughead was ok, especially around the ground.

We do however, have an issue with the rucks and both weeks we have been beaten badly. Hopefully that will be rectified this week against a poor opposition.

[LostDoggy]

There is also a stat called effective tackles.

example Cooney laid 6 tackles but only 4 were effective.

Thanks BAD, do we have these two stats for Stack, he certainly did lay some good tackles that were effective but it would be good to see the breakdown, even though stats mean nothing ;)

Perceptions are everything and seemingly some strong views either way for Stack. Unlike some I think Djerkurra looked like a contributing player these last two games but I thought he was awful in the round 1 of NAB.

I really think we should try the Minson/Roughhead ruck combination this week or perhaps against Sandilands the week after the bye. I would like to see the three rucks rotated in different games depending on the opposition. Minson should be encouraged for his form bbut I dont see Will and Huddo as the ideal combination.

[Ghost Dog]

Minson should be encouraged for his form bbut I dont see Will and Huddo as the ideal combination.

What other options do we have? Roughy?

[azabob]

What other options do we have? Roughy?

Roughead played against Brisbane.

[LostDoggy]

What other options do we have? Roughy?

Yeah, either Huddo and Roughy or Minson and Roughy depending on opposition. Roughhead will need to be managed very well.

[anfo27]

I am sorry to keep haqrping but where does this perception come from. His stats indicate 3 errors with an 80% disposal efficiency, one of the highest against Brisbane? He had 20 possessions.

That efficiency stat is a load of BS bornadog. If Stack is running out of the backline with minimal or no pressure and kicks to a team mate and does not hit him on the chest but the ball does not go directly to the opposition then thats an effective kick. i saw Stack run out of the backline with no pressure and could not put the ball on a team mates chest quite a few times. I maybe nit picking here but thats not good enough in my book.

You can get stats to prove anything if you look for it and if Stack put the ball on a team mates chest 80% of the time then i would want him in my starting 18.

[Topdog]

I have never said I don't want Gilbee picked, I just want him picked on form and on form his position in the team is uncertain. He will get opportunities this season and I would hope that he performs well because when he performs well he is a vital part of our side, but we just didn't see it enough last year.

I agree that from what we have seen of Stack so far this season his position in the team is far from guaranteed as there has been some quite obvious teething problems, but there have been some positives and I would hope over the course of 6 to 10 games his confidence would increase which would no doubt help his decision making and execution.

Absolutely spot on.

[Topdog]

I agree, i don't believe the stats are very accurate and they certainly don't read between the lines. It's either a yes or no answer and no analysis is given. ie Tackle = Yes, however the opposition player still got the ball out to his teamate when the tackle could of been more effective and stopped the play.

Tackle stats don't truly reflect what we see. Gia being the good example.

I think the next game i'll record my version of Stacks Stats and compare them to the official ones. ;)

That does not count as a tackle. If it did each team would average 250 tackles a game.

[Bulldog Joe]

Yeah, either Huddo and Roughy or Minson and Roughy depending on opposition. Roughhead will need to be managed very well.

Well I guess it depends on what we want.

If we want to maximise our ruck effort it is Hudson/Minson

If we want to get the best from sending them forward it is actually Minson/Roughead because Hudson offers the least as a forward and takes the least marks.

Hudson is however the best clearance ruckman, but needs rest off the ground more than Will.

[Sedat]

Hudson is however the best clearance ruckman, but needs rest off the ground more than Will.
In a perfect world we'd have one less inside mid and one more fast outside line-breaker, with Huddo providing cover as an additional inside stoppage winner (which he essentially is after competing the ruck stoppage anyway).

Huddo's workrate was much better on Sunday than it was in Round 1. That trademark desperation at the fall of the ball was there in spades, which was almost completely lacking in Round 1. He's at his best when he is on his hands and knees blocking a path for the mids, or dishing it out himself. The sub rule is certainly doing his career longevity no favours, but when he is working hard at the stoppages he still provides a valuable role to the team.

[LostDoggy]

That efficiency stat is a load of BS bornadog. If Stack is running out of the backline with minimal or no pressure and kicks to a team mate and does not hit him on the chest but the ball does not go directly to the opposition then thats an effective kick. i saw Stack run out of the backline with no pressure and could not put the ball on a team mates chest quite a few times. I maybe nit picking here but thats not good enough in my book.

You can get stats to prove anything if you look for it and if Stack put the ball on a team mates chest 80% of the time then i would want him in my starting 18.

Did Stack steal your wife/girlfriend?

[Mantis]

Did Stack steal your wife/girlfriend?

Different user-name, same stubborn views.

[chef]

That efficiency stat is a load of BS bornadog. If Stack is running out of the backline with minimal or no pressure and kicks to a team mate and does not hit him on the chest but the ball does not go directly to the opposition then thats an effective kick. i saw Stack run out of the backline with no pressure and could not put the ball on a team mates chest quite a few times. I maybe nit picking here but thats not good enough in my book.

You can get stats to prove anything if you look for it and if Stack put the ball on a team mates chest 80% of the time then i would want him in my starting 18.

I think you are. Put any of our players under a microscope and I think you'll pick up deficiencies in all their games.

[LostDoggy]

That does not count as a tackle. If it did each team would average 250 tackles a game.

IIRC, I believe that a tackle is recorded as a stat if it results in a turnover, stoppage or free kick?

i also have an issue with the efficiency stat - plenty of times I saw players go in and win the hard ball then dispose under pressure resulting in a turnover which would be recorded as an inefficient disposal which is unfair and not an accurate representation.

[Desipura]

Well I guess it depends on what we want.

If we want to maximise our ruck effort it is Hudson/Minson

If we want to get the best from sending them forward it is actually Minson/Roughead because Hudson offers the least as a forward and takes the least marks.

Hudson is however the best clearance ruckman, but needs rest off the ground more than Will.
Thanks Hugh :D

[1eyedog]

Maybe all the shots a la Chippendales with ripped denims and oiled washboard abs floating around on the net have something to do with it. :D

Ah I see. Jon Brown did some black and white shots for the Brisbane Lions calender in 2009. He was wearing a sheet and and had oil on his chest. He must be a nancy boy too!

[Bulldog Joe]

Thanks Hugh :D

No I am not related to Will.

[BulldogBelle]

Sometimes goals scored don't tell you a lot either. Polkinghorne scored two goals straight in the 4th quarter, both times streaming from the midfield when Stack wasn't his direct opponent.

Stack did fine on Sunday.


What you have said is just nonsense and wrong.

The first goal against Stack by Polkinghorne was when Stack left Polkinghorne to tackle a running Brisbane player only to see the ball handballed over his head to Polkinghorne who kicked on the run from about 60 out. It was clearly Stack's man who kicked the goal.


http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1204/stackleaveshismanpolkin.jpg


The second goal by Polkinghorne against Stack was when he was outmarked by Polkinghorne at centre-half-forward. Polkinghorne then goaled from a set shot.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2233/polkinghornetakesamarki.jpg

Two in a minute, both against Stack. Get it right or don't put it!

[ledge]

What you have said is just nonsense and wrong.

The first goal against Stack by Polkinghorne was when Stack left Polkinghorne to tackle a running Brisbane player only to see the ball handballed over his head to Polkinghorne who kicked on the run from about 60 out. It was clearly Stack's man who kicked the goal.http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1204/stackleaveshismanpolkin.jpg


The second goal by Polkinghorne against Stack was when he was outmarked by Polkinghorne at centre-half-forward. Polkinghorne then goaled from a set shot.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2233/polkinghornetakesamarki.jpg

Two in a minute, both against Stack. Get it right or don't put it!

Hardly Stacks fault though.

[Maddog37]

Noticed rocket said that bbbh is a certainty so I guess he won't be playing.

[EasternWest]

What you have said is just nonsense and wrong.

The first goal against Stack by Polkinghorne was when Stack left Polkinghorne to tackle a running Brisbane player only to see the ball handballed over his head to Polkinghorne who kicked on the run from about 60 out. It was clearly Stack's man who kicked the goal.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1204/stackleaveshismanpolkin.jpg
The second goal by Polkinghorne against Stack was when he was outmarked by Polkinghorne at centre-half-forward. Polkinghorne then goaled from a set shot.
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2233/polkinghornetakesamarki.jpg

Two in a minute, both against Stack. Get it right or don't put it!
Hmm. I'll concede that the second one was directly scored on him.
I can't blame him for the first. He took a risk and got burnt. Big deal. Is he meant to let the guy with the ball keep running?
I'm happy for our players to back themselves in an effort to make something happen. Lake's made a career out of it.

I like your attention to detail though. You're still my favourite crazy person.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What you have said is just nonsense and wrong.

The first goal against Stack by Polkinghorne was when Stack left Polkinghorne to tackle a running Brisbane player only to see the ball handballed over his head to Polkinghorne who kicked on the run from about 60 out. It was clearly Stack's man who kicked the goal.


http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1204/stackleaveshismanpolkin.jpg


The second goal by Polkinghorne against Stack was when he was outmarked by Polkinghorne at centre-half-forward. Polkinghorne then goaled from a set shot.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2233/polkinghornetakesamarki.jpg

Two in a minute, both against Stack. Get it right or don't put it!

I had a boss who once said, "say anything you like with conviction and no-one will be sure enough to challenge you".


I call bullshit.


As Hudson kicks to CHF, while the ball is in the air (3.28 to go) Polkinghorne is clearly in shot manned up by Cross. Adcock wins the ball at D50 and handballs over Cross' head to a moving Polkinghorne.

Stack is drawn forward as Polkinghorne and Power play a 1-2 with him near the centre of the ground.

The behind the goals shot shows Stack coming in from the wing and walks into a 2-on-1.

Stack was 50 metres from Polkinghorne when that passage of play started. Just because he walks over and mans the bloke up afterward doesn't mean he was on him at the time.



The second one was simply a midfielder under no pressure at all spotting up a leading forward.

[anfo27]

I think you are. Put any of our players under a microscope and I think you'll pick up deficiencies in all their games.

Well i guess i am picky but i would of thought a player running out of defence with little to no pressure has to hit a target. I'm not talking about hitting his feet or kicking it to the wrong side, he has to hit the target. If you think thats not that important then you must not have high expectations of these players, why do we have designated kickers then if it ain't that important?

[anfo27]

Different user-name, same stubborn views.

Stop pumping him up and I'll stop bringing him down or at least wait till he does something on the field first.

[The Coon Dog]

Stop pumping him up and I'll stop bringing him down or at least wait till he does something on the field first.

He was referring to Chops' new username.

[BulldogBelle]

. Just because he walks over and mans the bloke up afterward doesn't mean he was on him at the time.

The second one was simply a midfielder under no pressure at all spotting up a leading forward.



But he looked so sheepish and guilty as though he was trying to hide. Looked like he was looking for a hole to hide in. Didn't he. Guilty by looking guilty!

So the second one you agree wasn't kicked on the run and you reckon that Stack couldn't have stopped it because the midfielder spotted Polkinghorne up so well. That's OK. But I think that the ball dropped somewhat and could have been spoiled.

Stack did some nice things, contributed to a couple of goals, had a good kickout from goal, some good clearances. But did a few stuff ups as well. Considering Stack's age (he should now be in his prime), and the enormous amount of resources that have been put into him over the years one would hope that he will attain the status of at least a B grader. What do the Stackophiles see in this fellow? In what areas will he improve?

[EasternWest]

What you have said is just nonsense and wrong.

Two in a minute, both against Stack. Get it right or don't put it!


But he looked so sheepish and guilty as though he was trying to hide. Looked like he was looking for a hole to hide in. Didn't he. Guilty by looking guilty!

Wow. What a magnificent backflip :D.

[SlimPickens]

Ok so with Gilbbe and Lake to play. Who will be the outs?

My thoughts
In: Lake, Gilbee, Wallis (Sub)
Out: Markovic (unlucky), Stack and DJ

[G-Mo77]

Reading the article in The Age today I think Hall will be on of the outs.

[SlimPickens]

Reading the article in The Age today I think Hall will be on of the outs.

I got that impression, is it possible they would consider playing Lake forward for his first game back?

[LostDoggy]

He was referring to Chops' new username.

Was he? I thought he was talking about another Stack hater?

[BulldogBelle]

Reading the article in The Age today I think Hall will be on of the outs.


Possibly our old mate Mitch Hahn might come in for Barry...on the back of his VFL form against Werribee

[Mantis]

Was he? I thought he was talking about another Stack hater?

When is TCD ever wrong.

[SlimPickens]

Possibly our old mate Mitch Hahn might come in for Barry...on the back of his VFL form against Werribee

Wouldn't Mitch have to be elevated to the senoir list?

[BulldogBelle]

Wouldn't Mitch have to be elevated to the senoir list?


Would Hargrave be placed on the long term injury list?

[G-Mo77]

Would Hargrave be placed on the long term injury list?

I thought he already was.

[SlimPickens]

Would Hargrave be placed on the long term injury list?

Not sure about that, i know there was talk about the possible elevation of Barlow prior to round 1 but i'm not sure if that happened.

[BulldogBelle]

I thought he already was.


Officially?

Assuming we would need to register the elevation with the AFL (if it happens)

If Hall plays and is fit, I would be looking forward to a 6-7 goal display, a man against (mostly) boys...

[Sockeye Salmon]

Hargrave has definately been put on the LTI list.

Once on the list you can't play for 8 weeks and Hargrave is looking at getting back by round 6 or 7.

By putting him on the LTI list before the season started he can serve his 8 weeks, be back by R6 and we have the option of elevating someone in the meantime, even if it's only for 1 game.

[LostDoggy]

Just wondering what the deal is with Addison?

Sorry if it's been mentioned in this thread already i had a quick look over and didn't see anyone mention him.

Surely after his performance in the finals last year i thought he would slot straight back into the 21 in Round 2.

Or is he injured?

[LostDoggy]

, Kent. 14% of people know that."
It's "Forfty" percent of people know that. Forfty.

If Hall plays and is fit, I would be looking forward to a 6-7 goal display, a man against (mostly) boys...

Side note: Hall needs 4 goals to reach 700 for career?????? Did I hear that somewhere???

[EasternWest]

Just wondering what the deal is with Addison?

He's fit, as far as I'm aware. The question is where do you play him and who goes out?

[Mantis]

He's fit, as far as I'm aware. The question is where do you play him and who goes out?

He is fit, he played for Williamstown last Saturday night.

Agree with the 2nd part, he has no defined role so where do you pick him to play? Perhaps he plays against Collingwood as a defensive forward on O'Brien or Maxwell as he goes ok in that role... I guess we will wait and see.

[Chicago1]

Went over to training yesterday. Hopefully Lake will be in on Saturday. Will get over for my last training tomorrow. Well, last until September... :p

[SlimPickens]

He's fit, as far as I'm aware. The question is where do you play him and who goes out?

Agree, a lot of people on WOOF want him in the side however what will be his defined role. He was very good as a defensive forward in the finals last year and there is no doubting that he is tough at it. Although that being said i don't see a place in the team this week as the role of a defensive forward against GC is pointless.

The Collingwood game and a lock down role on Shaw, O'Brien or Maxwell is probably his best opportunity to get back in the side.

[egan-kennedy-ford]

After this game, we have a bye, then Freo in Perth on a Monday night (finishing around 11:30 PM gee thanks AFL) and then Collingwood the next Sunday afternoon.

I really don't like the sounds of Lake and Gilbee opening their seasons in Perth and then facing Collingwood 5 and a half days later.

With their interrupted preps, a game and then a break is an ideal way to start the season, so they really should play.

Markovic has been good and it's very comforting to know that we have a competent back up for Lake/Williams, but he'll have to be an unlucky ommission.

Although Gilbee's position in our best 22 is disputable, I think with Harbrow and Wood not there, his abilities as an offensive defender are too valuable to be dismissed. He'll be given every opportunity to show he's still got it and therefore must be given the run (but will need to show a bit quickly).

Tough call about who he replaces. I think they are keen to learn more about Stack and Hill down back and will keep both in the team. Maybe DJ will get the week off.

When we come up against the stronger teams, I am not sure we can have L.Jones and Roughead in the team as well as Grant, Hall and Hudson. It is good to be getting game time into both Jones and Roughie, but if we were playing a top team this week I suspect Jones would not be in our best 22.

[Desipura]

Dont forget Collingwood play on the Tuesday so they have one less days break although we are coming home from Perth

[The Coon Dog]

Dont forget Collingwood play on the Tuesday so they have one less days break although we are coming home from Perth

No, they, like us play on Monday 25 April.

[LostDoggy]

I am not sure we can have L.Jones and Roughead in the team as well as Grant, Hall and Hudson.




We can and we have to.

[LostDoggy]

I call bullshit.








But he looked so sheepish and guilty as though he was trying to hide. Looked like he was looking for a hole to hide in. Didn't he. Guilty by looking guilty!





Good call Sockeye!

[LostDoggy]

Markovic at FB and Lake at CHF !?! Would be interesting to see how that worked.

[AndrewP6]

Rocket looked and sounded very weary on the team announcement vid. Sick of it already? :)
\

[LostDoggy]

Rocket looked and sounded very weary on the team announcement vid. Sick of it already? :)
\

How do you mean? Haven't watched it

[AndrewP6]

How do you mean? Haven't watched it

Just as it sounds... he looked and sounded tired.

[the banker]

Agree. Rocket does look flat doing this segment. How about the Assistants do it? Would like to hear Dean and Williams.

[LostDoggy]

No, they, like us play on Monday 25 April.

I think it's interesting that a team that might threaten the pies have such a short break and a long trip... Conspiracy theories aside I hope it's not used as an excuse if we get pumped.

[LostDoggy]

I think it's interesting that a team that might threaten the pies have such a short break and a long trip... Conspiracy theories aside I hope it's not used as an excuse if we get pumped.

No excuse for us but would love to know how many games pies get against sides coming back from interstate. It's already 2 and will be 3 with us.
Last year it was 15 MCG games to end the year. They get a leg up while the others are hobbled.

[Mantis]

No excuse for us but would love to know how many games pies get against sides coming back from interstate. It's already 2 and will be 3 with us.
Last year it was 15 MCG games to end the year. They get a leg up while they others are hobbled.

It's all about the $.

They make the AFL big $$'s... and we know the AFL love the $.

[LostDoggy]

No excuse for us but would love to know how many games pies get against sides coming back from interstate. It's already 2 and will be 3 with us.
Last year it was 15 MCG games to end the year. They get a leg up while they others are hobbled.
Interesting... The evidence just stacks up but there is no inequity... The schedules been rigged for years. No excuses but it won't stop my mind ticking over if we lose by a point.

It's all about the $.

They make the AFL big $$'s... and we know the AFL love the $.

I understand friday night syndrome But how does disadvantaging us benefit the afl $ wise?

[Desipura]

No excuse for us but would love to know how many games pies get against sides coming back from interstate. It's already 2 and will be 3 with us.
Last year it was 15 MCG games to end the year. They get a leg up while they others are hobbled.

It's all about money, if I was running the AFL I to would play Collingwood at the MCG as often as possible where they get huge crowds.
Unfortunately it does not equate to an even draw

[LostDoggy]

Money to the AFL and money to Collingwood, stuff the rest. First priority should be a fair competition.

[G-Mo77]

It's all about money, if I was running the AFL I to would play Collingwood at the MCG as often as possible where they get huge crowds.
Unfortunately it does not equate to an even draw

I've always thought a more even playing field would be better as a whole. Collingwood are the biggest draw yes but wouldn't it be better having every team prospering? If more money was thrown into promoting the smaller clubs instead of continuously giving Collingwood, Essendon and new clubs an easy ride there would be more growth as a whole which would lead to more $$$ to the AFL.

[Desipura]

I've always thought a more even playing field would be better as a whole. Collingwood are the biggest draw yes but wouldn't it be better having every team prospering? If more money was thrown into promoting the smaller clubs instead of continuously giving Collingwood, Essendon and new clubs an easy ride there would be more growth as a whole which would lead to more $$$ to the AFL.

Promoting the smaller clubs means the likes of the pies and Dons taking a back seat and therefore they AFL losing $$$, sounds fair but the AFL don't want to lose money just on moral grounds

[LostDoggy]

Went to the Carlton/Collingwood game last night. Watched a team beat another team purely because they have a great game plan. Seems very simple to me from my fourth level vantage point but it was very effective. Every player knows exactly where the ball is going which ensures superior numbers most of the time.

Dogs will play Markovic in the Ruck swapping with Hudson and Roughead will stay forward most of the time with some stints in the middle. I think they see Roughead and a better option than Jones at the moment.

Lake will play down back.

[LostDoggy]

Went to the Carlton/Collingwood game last night. Watched a team beat another team purely because they have a great game plan.

I wouldn't say its just that. There is a huge gap between Collingwood and Carlton's 15th best to 22nd.

[bornadog]

Money to the AFL and money to Collingwood, stuff the rest. First priority should be a fair competition.

Absolutely right


Promoting the smaller clubs means the likes of the pies and Dons taking a back seat and therefore they AFL losing $$$, sounds fair but the AFL don't want to lose money just on moral grounds

The trouble is Desi the more exposure they get the bigger they get and the gap keeps growing. Have a look at their membership size, do you wonder why its doubled over the past ten years? ANZC day exposure, MCG games, Friday night, rarely play interstate, etc etc. It just keeps rolling and the whole thing is to the detriment to the smaller clubs.

[G-Mo77]

Promoting the smaller clubs means the likes of the pies and Dons taking a back seat and therefore they AFL losing $$$, sounds fair but the AFL don't want to lose money just on moral grounds

I wouldn't call it moral grounds. You have 18 teams in your league, wouldn't you want 18 solid teams rather than just 2 - 3. More revenue would be gained from having 18 stable clubs. Short term then yeah Coll/Ess take a back seat but long term they would be far better off.

[LostDoggy]

I wouldn't call it moral grounds. You have 18 teams in your league, wouldn't you want 18 solid teams rather than just 2 - 3. More revenue would be gained from having 18 stable clubs. Short term then yeah Coll/Ess take a back seat but long term they would be far better off.
Last night was mayhem with 88 thou. Sometimes its nice belonging to a less popular club.

[KT31]

Promoting the smaller clubs means the likes of the pies and Dons taking a back seat and therefore they AFL losing $$$, sounds fair but the AFL don't want to lose money just on moral grounds

Initially yes, but imagine if the legue had invested as much in advertising us or the Saints (if they had behaved) over the previous ten years.
IMO they would be miles in front, would have more chances to a so called play blockbuster and a much fairer draw.

Sacrifice for the greater etc.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Absolutely right



The trouble is Desi the more exposure they get the bigger they get and the gap keeps growing. Have a look at their membership size, do you wonder why its doubled over the past ten years? ANZC day exposure, MCG games, Friday night, rarely play interstate, etc etc. It just keeps rolling and the whole thing is to the detriment to the smaller clubs.

I hate basketball but my son loves it.

My son has never been to Sydney in his life but baracks for the Sydney Kings - purely because nearly every time he turns on the TV to watch basketball the Kings are playing. He doesn't even care that they usually lose.

[KT31]

I hate basketball but my son loves it.

My son has never been to Sydney in his life but baracks for the Sydney Kings - purely because nearly every time he turns on the TV to watch basketball the Kings are playing. He doesn't even care that they usually lose.

Must be inherited -You grew up in the 60's and didn't care that the Doggies always lost.:D

[LostDoggy]

Chops and Bornadog, we had some discussion on Gilbee vs Stack, Stack didn't get much of a crack at it this week but I thought Gilbs decision making and disposal were a real asset to us. What was your thoughts on his first game back?

[bornadog]

Chops and Bornadog, we had some discussion on Gilbee vs Stack, Stack didn't get much of a crack at it this week but I thought Gilbs decision making and disposal were a real asset to us. What was your thoughts on his first game back?

I thought Gilbee played well, although put a few players under presure with his handballs. Stack came on and picked up 8 disposals as was fine, should have kicked a goal in the last but sprayed it.

[LostDoggy]

I thought Gilbee played well, although put a few players under presure with his handballs. Stack came on and picked up 8 disposals as was fine, should have kicked a goal in the last but sprayed it.

I saw an early Gilbee handball that really put his target under pressure but there were several near perfect kicks to a chest that 'warmed the cockles of my heart'.

[Mofra]

I saw an early Gilbee handball that really put his target under pressure but there were several near perfect kicks to a chest that 'warmed the cockles of my heart'.
I'm not sure it was skill level or the fact that he found a bit of space to work in.
Hopefully he gets a bit of touch back from the run, as Freo (even on Subi) & Collingwood wont allow him the same amount of time.

[immortalmike]

I'm not sure it was skill level or the fact that he found a bit of space to work in.
Hopefully he gets a bit of touch back from the run, as Freo (even on Subi) & Collingwood wont allow him the same amount of time.

I certainly felt better as I noticed that at the end of last year and in the pre-season Gilbee would spray regulation kicks under no pressure.

[Maddog37]

Gilbs looks to be more and more like Leon Cameron with his near preference on using the left foot at times.